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Revision as of 22:14, 8 July 2012 view sourceMathsci (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers66,107 edits →Statement by Mathsci← Previous edit Revision as of 22:40, 8 July 2012 view source The Devil's Advocate (talk | contribs)19,695 edits →Admin Involvement and Handling of Edits by SockpuppetsNext edit →
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I have no idea what this case is meant to achieve. Somebody broke his topic ban and got sanctioned for it. Pretty clear-cut case. He made an appeal against that sanction and had it declined. Pretty clear-cut case too. Somebody was accused of illicit use of alternate accounts, and that concern was turned down by a consensus of several admins at SPI. So what. Some admins disagreed about something and handed out fishes to each other. Big deal. Somebody made not-so-constructive posts in an AE thread and got a warning for it. So, where's the beef? ] ] 20:34, 8 July 2012 (UTC) I have no idea what this case is meant to achieve. Somebody broke his topic ban and got sanctioned for it. Pretty clear-cut case. He made an appeal against that sanction and had it declined. Pretty clear-cut case too. Somebody was accused of illicit use of alternate accounts, and that concern was turned down by a consensus of several admins at SPI. So what. Some admins disagreed about something and handed out fishes to each other. Big deal. Somebody made not-so-constructive posts in an AE thread and got a warning for it. So, where's the beef? ] ] 20:34, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

=== Statement by The Devil's Advocate ===
As I see it, the nexus of this dispute is R&I and the interaction between Math and Trev. It is quite clear that while Math cared nothing for other people restoring comments relating to R&I from a banned editor, he made a point of edit-warring with Trev over the issue despite repeated requests from Trev that Math stop editing his userspace. After requesting Trev ask an Arb about Math's removal of comments from Trev's talk page per WP:BAN, Math accused Trev of violating his topic ban by bringing up Math's R&I-related conduct. The restriction in this case is prohibitively restrictive as Math is free to poke at Trev repeatedly until he responds and then accuse Trev of violating the ban, which is the essence of what transpired with MastCell's block of Trev. In its wording the restriction is also unduly punitive, as it appears to me that Trev never made any comments about editor conduct that were not related to R&I so the need for that restriction is unclear. Not to mention the wording seems to say that he cannot comment on the conduct of the 1,000+ editors who have "worked on" the Race and Intelligence article. While a case is a bit much, I think the Arbs should revisit the issue of Trev's restriction and how it is worded. Any questions about MastCell's use of his tools could be discussed in a more appropriate forum such as an RfCU.--] (]) 22:40, 8 July 2012 (UTC)


=== Clerk notes === === Clerk notes ===

Revision as of 22:40, 8 July 2012

Requests for arbitration

Arbitration Committee proceedings Case requests
Request name Motions Initiated Votes
Admin Involvement and Handling of Edits by Sockpuppets   8 July 2012 {{{votes}}}
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Admin Involvement and Handling of Edits by Sockpuppets

Initiated by TrevelyanL85A2 (talk) at 19:19, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

MastCell: Future Perfect: Jclemens: Nyttend: Mathsci: Collect: SightWatcher:

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

Statement by TrevelyanL85A2

I apologise for this late request. I requested arbitration on the mailing list on 12 June, following advice I was given at AE to do so, but ArbCom advised me (on 28 June) that I should make my request in public after my block expired. As ArbCom has seen my initial complaint, they know it can't be described without referring to some editors who were formerly involved in R&I. Therefore, I take ArbCom's instructions that I make the complaint in public to mean I should just summarise the dispute, without otherwise commenting on these editors.

Since May, MastCell has made several administrative actions defending Mathsci's interests in disputes related to Echigo Mole. These include deleting a pair of files that Jclemens protected as evidence for ArbCom, protecting my user talk to stop me restoring Echigo Mole's posts there, and blocking me for a month when Mathsci accused me of violating my topic ban (without giving me time to make a statement in the AE thread). This is concerning because MastCell's involvement in the dispute was privately requested by Mathsci: "Irrespective of Jclemens' protection, the two pages were later deleted by MastCell following my request" Said request must have been made privately because it was not anywhere public. Collect raised a related complaint here about Future Perfect. Jclemens suggested Collect's complaint be brought up for broader review, so I hope ArbCom can address both issues.

The basic problem affecting Collect and me is that an admin can be technically uninvolved, yet still use their powers to exclusively defend the interests of an editor or group of editors. MastCell has a long pattern of following Mathsci to disputes to defend him, both by arguing with Mathsci's opponents and using his admin tools. I'll present more examples if ArbCom accepts the case.

I'll summarise the other main aspects of this dispute because its complexity is one of the reasons I think it requires arbitration.

  • The question of when it's permissible to restore edits by sockpuppets, as debated in the AN thread. Editors seem to be held to inconsistent standards. Collect and Nyttend were allowed to restore posts from Echigo Mole socks in their user talk, but when I did the same my user talk was protected to prevent it.
  • The accusations by SilkTork, Collect and Jclemens against one of the other parties. No comment on whether the accusations are true, but a summary of the dispute needs to mention them.
  • The accusation here, here, here, and here that Jclemens abused his authority as an arbitrator. No comment on this accusation either, but a few admins and other editors made it, so I think the committee should examine it.

In summary, four admins have been accused of misconduct in this dispute: Nyttend (in the AN thread), MastCell, Future Perfect and Jclemens. Therefore, I do not think this can be resolved in an RFC, and arbitration is the best option.

Statement by Mathsci

TrevelyanL85A2 has broken his topic ban in an extremely serious way hours after coming off a one month AE block for the same nonsense. Even in itty-bitty words of less than one syllable, fed to him by his acknowledged friends Ferhago and Occam, he cannot mention me on wikipedia. I have reported him at WP:AE. At no stage recently has TrevelyanL852 shown even the slightest (= teensiest weensiest) sign that he is interested in building an encylopedia of any kind. On wikipedia at the moment his account appears to be "disruption-only". This request touches unfinished business involving proxy-editors. The long term abusers (Echigo mole and Mikemikev) are a different and unrelated issue: see WP:LTA . Administrators at WP:AE can handle this perfectly well without Ferahgo and Occam creating more havoc on wikipedia through their disingenuous intermediaries. Mathsci (talk) 20:20, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Statement by Fut.Perf.

I have no idea what this case is meant to achieve. Somebody broke his topic ban and got sanctioned for it. Pretty clear-cut case. He made an appeal against that sanction and had it declined. Pretty clear-cut case too. Somebody was accused of illicit use of alternate accounts, and that concern was turned down by a consensus of several admins at SPI. So what. Some admins disagreed about something and handed out fishes to each other. Big deal. Somebody made not-so-constructive posts in an AE thread and got a warning for it. So, where's the beef? Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:34, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Statement by The Devil's Advocate

As I see it, the nexus of this dispute is R&I and the interaction between Math and Trev. It is quite clear that while Math cared nothing for other people restoring comments relating to R&I from a banned editor, he made a point of edit-warring with Trev over the issue despite repeated requests from Trev that Math stop editing his userspace. After requesting Trev ask an Arb about Math's removal of comments from Trev's talk page per WP:BAN, Math accused Trev of violating his topic ban by bringing up Math's R&I-related conduct. The restriction in this case is prohibitively restrictive as Math is free to poke at Trev repeatedly until he responds and then accuse Trev of violating the ban, which is the essence of what transpired with MastCell's block of Trev. In its wording the restriction is also unduly punitive, as it appears to me that Trev never made any comments about editor conduct that were not related to R&I so the need for that restriction is unclear. Not to mention the wording seems to say that he cannot comment on the conduct of the 1,000+ editors who have "worked on" the Race and Intelligence article. While a case is a bit much, I think the Arbs should revisit the issue of Trev's restriction and how it is worded. Any questions about MastCell's use of his tools could be discussed in a more appropriate forum such as an RfCU.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 22:40, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter (0/0/1/2)

  • Recused, obviously. Jclemens (talk) 20:16, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Waiting for more statements, but on first view, I have to agree with Fut.Perf, that I don't think this requires our attention at this time. SirFozzie (talk) 20:40, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Awaiting more statements, but I wonder what TrevelyanL85A2 is trying to accomplish here; site=banning him was voted down in the hopes he would do something productive, and not proxy the same disputes. As it stands, I'm not sure he's doing anything but that. Courcelles 21:24, 8 July 2012 (UTC)