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here with Jusdafax, May 2011. ~ GabeMc 04:40, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Yep. Thanks for your hard work in further exposing the pattern of abuse at ANI. At the time I debated taking Andreasegde to ANI, but the notion make me feel queasy and disgusted after the encounter. I now regret not doing it, as others have had to suffer further abuse. Hopefully this bully can be topic banned from any Beatles articles at the very least, but I think you have shown a pattern of abuse that calls for a more complete remedy. It is not yet clear to me if socking is in play. My best (no pun intended) wishes, Jusdafax 09:21, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your support. It feels worse than guilty by association to get abused like that then chastised for reporting it. I don't mind taking the heat as long as they do the right thing in the end. I want to help improve this project inside and out! ~ GabeMc 05:57, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

At first you were getting piled on, but then various editors piped up. I feel Coren handled it well at the end. Thanks for sticking to your guns and doing the right thing, and I admire your work. One quick point... please make sure you follow both the letter and the spirit of the interaction ban. Just stay away, and if he breaks the ban (outside of the mediation of 'the/The') crisply notify Coren and let him handle it. Don't respond to bait! My very best wishes, Jusdafax 06:42, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. Thanks much! ~ GabeMc 06:40, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

AN/I thread

I note that you were not notified of my closing the thread there, and I hadn't thought of doing it myself. My apologies about that.

After evaluating the discussion, it seems clear that the best way forward is for you to lay off direct interaction with Andreasegde entirely. I've thus closed the discussion regarding you with an indefinite interaction ban with him. Note that formal dispute resolution (including the now-ongoing mediation) is specifically excluded from this; so that your participation there is not only permitted, but also encouraged. — Coren  16:31, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Opinion

Could you opine on this matter. Regards AdabowtheSecond (talk) 19:03, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Most certainly, thanks for asking. ~ GabeMc 07:56, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi

I think you are a reasonable person, but I don't think your diffs and the comment about Bwilkins here are really fair. Note that I have no particular connection to Bwilkins as seen here: . I am just concerned about what could be seen as editors taking a rather clear cut stance when things don't seem as clear cut as is made out. IRWolfie- (talk) 02:32, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

I hear you, really I do, and I understand that admins are under pressure, but guess what, so are active content editors and I wouldn't get away with that kind of obscene language I predict. The swearing is one thing, they also were insulting and they mishandled the 3rr report and the AN/I report IMO. I wasn't alone in that either as the report shows. I just ask that you take a good look at the AN/I report before you judge. ~ GabeMc 02:35, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes I agree that the original diffs were very problematic, but I think a very public admonishment from Jimbo is really punishment enough to change behaviour: I can't imagine his behaviour continuing like that after the admonishment and so I think no further action is needed. This thread can always be referred to in future action if the problems persist. IRWolfie- (talk) 02:44, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

If I had treated him this way I would be asked to apologize and redact. They should at least apologize to me for being obscene and insulting. I do not believe in special treatment for admins, or anybody. ~ GabeMc 02:47, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

In my treatment I'm applying the same rules I would apply to anyone in this situation. He has promised to change his behaviour and I assume good faith that he will. This essay WP:SORRY linked from WP:CIVIL might be of interest as well, particularly the paragraph beginning "On the other hand,". IRWolfie- (talk) 02:58, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Where did Bwilkins apologize to me for being obscene and insulting and dropping-the-ball when he was most certainly wrong? I must have missed that. ~ GabeMc 03:08, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

But really, if he would just do something about Penyulap's disruption (maybe a warning) that would show me that he is a good admin. ~ GabeMc 03:18, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Some thoughts from Jimbo

My views on this are quite simple. An admin telling a user to "grow the fuck up" is absolutely unacceptable under any circumstances and is ground for immediate desysopping. If we care about having a serious, thoughtful, kind, adult and mature community (which I assume was the sentiment behind that unseemly outburst) then we have to model that behavior ourselves as admins. There's a bit of sad irony in behaving in a juvenile and bullying fashion in an attempt to get others to behave better. ********, I recommend that you turn in your bit and take a break from being an admin for 6 months and then return if you feel you can handle the job in a more responsible fashion.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 13:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

"We know that for two years now, the number of people being made admins is too low. And yet we have valid concerns that admins are overstressed, and that they don't always live up to what we hope in terms of thoughtful, kind, and welcoming conduct. I think that solutions lie precisely in these directions: make it easier to become an admin so that more people can share the burden, and easier to lose the bit when there are problems."--Jimbo Wales (talk) 08:16, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Re: Sgt. Pepper disruption

I agree that Penyulap's attempts to "close" the RFC are disruptive; it's not up to him to declare it "closed". However, I wouldn't have made comments at the header of the RFC that would seem to advocate for any particular position. Though I don't think you had any intention of biasing the straw poll, I can see how some people might come to that conclusion. I think Penyulap has cut it out, but if he tries it again I'll fully support undoing his efforts. szyslak (t) 02:52, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, no worries. The disruption there has ended. ~ GabeMc 07:54, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Jimbo's page

While I agree with you 100% and would like nothing more than to see BWilkins stopped, you should probably back off a bit. You've presented ample evidence of his misconduct. Continuing to post diffs upon diffs may be looked upon as overkill and might turn against you. Just a suggestion. Getting someone's admin bit removed-no matter how justified-is no easy task. I really want to see you succeed. Joefromrandb (talk) 03:20, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

No worries, I'm done searching diffs. ~ GabeMc 03:22, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

I thought you were done searching diffs. You're playing right into the hands of your detractors. I guarantee you I want to see him desysoped even more than you do. Some of the diffs you posted are great, but others are marginal. Think quality rather than quantity. Odds are no action is going to be taken. While I'm fairly sure Jimbo still holds the right to personally desysop someone it's extremely unlikely that he will. Jimbo asked him to voluntarily step down. That's only going to happen if community consensus supports it, and posting every piece of evidence you can find of instances where his behavior was less-than-stellar will likely sway the community in the other direction. Again, this is just food for thought; I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I know your heart is in the right place and I want you to succeed. Joefromrandb (talk) 03:05, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

I appreciate the sentiment Joe. I'll be careful. ~ GabeMc 03:08, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

FTR, I'm not concerned with my detractors, there will always be detractors when you do the right thing. Its Jimbo's talk page anyway right, he hasn't asked me to stop, yet. How do you know he isn't as aghast as we are at BWilkins' behaviour? ~ GabeMc 03:13, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

To not be concerned with your detractors is one thing; to give them fodder is something else. I think Jimbo's response made it clear that he was aghast. My point is you've proven your case. Telling you to "grow the fuck up" was as unacceptable as it gets; you got Jimbo himself to publicly censure him for it. You have little to gain by digging up a plethora of lesser infractions. In such cases, sentiment can easily turn. The sad fact is-as I already noted-it's extremely unlikely he's actually going to be desysoped. It is, by design, very, very hard to get someone's adminship removed. Even if he isn't desysoped this time, should he continue the same behavior in the future, this incident along with Jimbo's reprimand would go a long way in a potential Arbcom case. But if you continue to dig up every misdeed no matter how small, this whole thing could go the other way. You risk making him look like the oppressed rather than the oppressor. If there's one thing Misplaced Pages is not, it's quick. I know you want action now-so do I. But it's unlikely to happen right now. As hard as it is, the best thing to do is be paitent. Others weighed in about his misconduct too. The best thing to do-for now-is to take a step back and see how it plays out. Joefromrandb (talk) 03:38, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

I have to second that. Let's see how Bwilkins goes forward from here. It could very well be that he may take a less confrontational approach. In my past experiences, even when dealing wiht the worst of vandalizing trolls, nothing is gained by being a jerk back to them. I hope Bwilkins will understand this and improve.--MONGO 04:45, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

I hear you guys, really, but I quote BWilkins: "'your behaviour comes under the microscope' - um, it says that when you file at ANI". Well, I think people who report at AN/I should have the same rights and be treated the same way as admins treat each other and expect to be treated, a simple golden rule, thats it, there should be no double-standard as there is now. Jimbo would agree with me on that point I predict. ~ GabeMc 04:53, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

To be quite frank it appears your pride is getting in the way. Getting hung up over whether he said sorry to you specifically reflects badly on you. I pointed you to WP:SORRY: On the other hand, a sincere expression of regret, even if it stops short of a (probably insincere) admission that one has been totally to blame, can help defuse a situation, and may stand in place of an "ideal" apology. He gave an apology, it might not be what you want, but accept it; move on. Digging up diffs which don't show what you claim they show just makes it look like you have an axe to grind. IRWolfie- (talk) 11:19, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

I get it, and I agree, I won't post anymore diffs okay? I do think its a bit of a sad irony that the community thinks it unfair to look at a couple of diffs and then judge BW, but isn't that exactly how BWs makes their judgements at AN/I? At any rate, the point is well made, and I will take the advice offered above. Its been a tough week for me, and BW made it much harder than it needed to be, but I'll let it go for the sake of the community. Thanks for taking the time to discuss this with me. ~ GabeMc 21:09, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks!

Hey, Gabe, thanks very much for the barnstar! I appreciate it a lot. By the way, this edit is probably the single most awesome thing I've seen today. Keep up the good work! Evanh2008 08:04, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome, ditto and you know I will! ~ GabeMc 08:12, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Request for comment

I have noticed that the way you go about dispute resolution involves asking a wide variety of people outside of the context of the dispute, such as in the disputes you are having on the Talk:Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band talkpage. I expect it is a better idea to try to centralise the requests for assistance in one place, so that the wide variety of people who wish to assist you can do so in one place, rather than scattered across so very many pages and places. What do you think ? would that help ? Penyulap ☏ 22:06, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)

I try to only ask people who are interested in the Beatles, but yes, I have asked uninvolved people to get a fresh persective. At any rate, it is of little concern now moving forward as I will no longer request input from others, I'll just let the discussion revolve around those who happen upon it by chance or by watching pages. Thanks for you input. ~ GabeMc 22:47, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

That sounds fair enough, I'm not sure about dismissing assistance from so many people who want to help you though, as it does seem a bit of a waste, I guess I'm not sure, maybe other people have an opinion on the matter. Penyulap ☏ 00:12, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Now you said that " I will no longer request input from others " and it's been just over one hour and you are doing it all over again. here and here. So I'm thinking that you do actually need some assistance from other editors because you are having trouble dealing with everyday problems on wikipedia on your own. Penyulap ☏ 00:31, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

I am asking for assistance to avoid getting into an edit-war, as far as I know this is the exact right thing to do. At this point your wikihounding/wikistalking has begun to concern me, and so this should serve as your first formal request to never post to my talk page ever again. Thanks. ~ GabeMc 00:36, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Been running through my watchlist...

Hi Gabe. I've just been running through my watchlist from the weekend, as I often do on a Monday morning, and I see to have found your name littered across it, going for Bwilkins throat. Now, I'm not going to go into the dispute, because the more I've looked, the deeper it goes, but I am going to re-inforce the advice you've been given at a number of venues. Stop escalating this. Jimbo made a comment on the matter, a few days ago and as I understand it, Bwilkins is considering removal of his bit. Letting the dust settle, might actually come out with an outcome that's reasonable for all.

If you want to take this further, there are standard dispute resolution methods. For example, WP:RfC/U allows community input on a user, and can be an excellent intervention. It also requires 2 certifiers, which proves that it's not "all in your mind". Then there's the Arbitration Committee, which actually has the power to desysop the editor in question. Jimbo technically has the power to remove the bit in an emergency situation, but he's more of a figurehead than a seat of power, he's not likely to take action, though he may inspire others to do so. It's quite possible that it will backfire though, and the action will be taken against you, not Bwilkins.

I must re-iterate though, your attitude towards Bwilkins is tending towards Harassment, especially continuing to post on his talk page after he asked you to leave, and carrying on discussions on Jimbos page after they've been shut down. This type of behaviour is likely to lead to sanctions in the future, so please do consider walking away or following the dispute resolution processes found on wikipedia.

Oh and in case you are thinking that I'm one of "Bwilkins friends", I respect the chap, and I believe we both watch each other's talk pages, but the last two interactions we've had didn't exactly go well. I believe you'll find a lot about them in Demiurge1000's initial comment on Jimbo's page. Worm(talk) 11:57, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the advice, I will heed your warnings. ~ GabeMc 20:56, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Also, please don't come her and throw around the H-word. It makes me sound guilty when there has been no due process. I posted to his talk page in an attempt to work out our issues, he refused to talk about it. I posted there gain before noticing that Bwilkins had reverted my previous posts, once with the dishonest edit summary of "vandalism". I have not posted there since nor will I. For the record, Jimbo seems to generally agree with me:

"We know that for two years now, the number of people being made admins is too low. And yet we have valid concerns that admins are overstressed, and that they don't always live up to what we hope in terms of thoughtful, kind, and welcoming conduct. I think that solutions lie precisely in these directions: make it easier to become an admin so that more people can share the burden, and easier to lose the bit when there are problems."--Jimbo Wales (talk) 08:16, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

~ GabeMc 21:18, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Jimbo does agree desysoping sysops for verbal abuse. The main point is, he will NEVER take action, not even telling people directly to support the desysopship, he simply cannot. Another thing I hope you can understand that, normally we deal with a trolling event we simply silence ourselves so the drama dies naturally. But we talk to you, implore you to stop the drama because we value your efforts spent on the project. It's these dramas which ultimately drive away our contributors, even though the very reason of the conflict stems from the sysops with verbal abuse, you just make yourself the core of the problem for hosting the drama. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk) 22:53, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

I get it Sameboat, and I appreciate your efforts to discuss this with me. I've learned much this past week or two, and I will be a better user moving forward because of it. ~ GabeMc 23:13, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Regarding the "H-word", I don't throw it around lightly. I've told off one user in the past week for using it without backing it up, the majority of my admin work is deletions for privacy reasons and I recently became an oversighter. It's a topic I feel strongly about and take seriously. So I hope you can see the gravity of your actions.

According to the history, Bwilkins posted at 23:03 on 22 July, suggesting further posts from you would be deleted. You went on to post 3 seperate times, once reverted by Bwilkins "As I said", Once by SarekOfVulcan and then again by Bwilkins under vandalism. As it was the 3rd time you'd been reverted, I don't accept that you were unaware and therefore a vandalism summary is reasonable. Combine that with dozens of posts on Jimbo's page on the matter, yes, it does border on harassment.

I appreciate that your more recent posts have focussed on the general case, and I take on board your comments that you do not intend to post on Bwilkins page further. I will also mention that I've got a bit of spare time this weekend and I intend to set up a "Community De-adminship Proof of Concept" RfC, which I hope will be the start of a road to Community De-adminship. Worm(talk) 08:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

To clarify, Bwilkins said he would blank my future posts "at his leisure", however he never once asked me to not post to his talk page. Also, I didn't know he had reverted the previous posts before I had added another. As soon as I was aware that he was reverting me there I stopped. That's the other side to it. Also, when you say I posted five times to his talk page, well, three of those were spelling corrections. Anyway, your RfC sounds interesting, I hope you will notify me as to where to comment. Thanks. ~ GabeMc 21:05, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

I didn't hear back

This is your second formal request to refrain from posting to my talk page. Here is the diff of the first formal request. ~ GabeMc 21:01, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Uhh, OK, I can play along with that one (wink, wink). 99.251.125.65 (talk) 02:23, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Please consider this is your third formal request to stop posting on my talk page. Here is the diff of the first formal request and here is the diff of the second formal request. Next time I will report you for wikistalking and harassment. ~ GabeMc 22:39, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

• Here is the diff of a formal warning posted to IP 99s talk page by another user. ~ GabeMc 00:39, 26 July 2012 (UTC)