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Main page: Help searching Misplaced Pages

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August 5

Secretariat's ancestry

Was Secretariat (horse), who won the United States Triple Crown of Thoroughbred Racing in 1973 with times which have not been bettered so far, a descendant of Godolphin Arabian, Darley Arabian, and/or Byerley Turk, three 18th century horses said to be the "founders of the modern Thoroughbred horse racing bloodstock?" Edison (talk) 03:30, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

All three, multiple times over. See the pedigree here and trace it back to the 1700s: ]. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 04:01, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

"All modern Thoroughbreds can trace their pedigrees to three stallions..." It is basically part of the definition of Thoroughbred. Rmhermen (talk) 16:19, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! It is gratifying to search back to the mid 1700's and find the Godollphin Arabian, as a multiple-line ancestor of Secretariat. I gave a book report in 6th grade on "King of the Wind" by Henry, about the Godolphin Arabian, and it just occurred to me to check whether he was an ancestor of Secretariat. Lots of inbreeding. Do genetic ailments due to recessive traits show up in "thoroughbreds" more than in random lines of horses? Edison (talk) 00:51, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes and it's been getting worse just in the past few decades. 70.59.11.32 (talk) 09:39, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

finding a person

reading about ALDERSHOT ARMY BASE did not help me. I hoped to find some one like "President of Mess Comitee (P.M.C.)" like the those that I met in the RAF years ago but I did not realise the gigentic size of that "Army Home". I need info` concerning miss JANE ROTMAM from Palestine that had been "married in Aldershot to an officer" she met while he served in Palestine. That took place in 1933 and the offier`s name was CALLINCE . Persuming the marrige was registered in an officer`s mess diary , Would you be kind to direct me where to aim my very-poor-informed question? {Lt. Col. Ret. R. Melamed, (Address removed) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.125.157.123 (talk) 12:26, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I have removed your address details, since it's not a good idea for these to be on display. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 12:52, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

You would be better to direct your query to someone at the National Archives, who are specialists in researching military events. This guide might help you prepare your question better. --TammyMoet (talk) 13:05, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

FWIW none of the girls with a first name Jane married in Farnham or Aldershot in the 1930s have a surname that resembles Rotmam or married somebody with a surname that resembles Callince. The nearest I can find is a Henry Collins and a Joan Rotman in Bath in 1937. MilborneOne (talk) 13:28, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

August 6

Why is it Less Acceptable for Guys to Call Other Straight Guys Handsome than it is for Women to call Other Straight Women Pretty?

This is something that I've always wondered about. And Yes, this is a serious question. Futurist110 (talk) 00:04, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

It's simply that guys aka men, are reluctant to accept and agree (in public) that they find other men attractive. I am married, heterosexual, have 5 kids and 15 grandkids; I don't box or play other sports; I hug old friends when I see them, and I often say to my wife that a certain actor or celebrity of the male species is a good looking guy - and she may or may not agree. But she is in no way suspicious that I would rather climb into bed with him than with her. I think that this gay or straight construct is as socialogically important as facebook - in other words,it is totally unimportant. Let's live with it. After all, it's better than living in Syria. 82.41.229.241 (talk) 00:24, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

There is simply more stigma attached to men being gay then women. As to "why" that is, there are probably many reasons but it all comes down to culture. In France for example, it's perfectly normal for men to kiss eachother's cheek when they greet and in some asian countries it's perfectly normal for male friends to hold hands. Vespine (talk) 00:53, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

The construction of masculinity is amazingly fragile. One wrong word, one wrong move, one wrong idea — and insecure people start to get quite uptight. Fortunately it's not universal... but it's pretty common. At least the way it is constructed in the United States, where most men spend, say, an inordinate amount of time worrying about whether the guy in the toilet stall next to them might glance at their junk. --Mr.98 (talk) 01:15, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Western concepts of masculinity are typically claimed as being founded on dominance and superiority (some even claim sadism). The same sociologists claim that femininity is founded on submission and inferiority. Thinking that way, it would make complete sense that men would avoid giving complements to other men on features that a woman might like. By exposing his feminine side he would be becoming less of a man. If you are truly interested in the topic, there are many thousands of sociology papers on the concept of masculinity that you can find on Google Scholar, for instance. I did not find any papers specifically on the giving of complements, but there are many interesting reads in there. Someguy1221 (talk) 04:25, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

What part of "The reference desk does not answer requests for opinions or predictions about future events. Do not start a debate; please seek an internet forum instead'" is confusing? μηδείς (talk) 01:22, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Unless you're about to classify the entire study of masculinity, and perhaps the entire field of sociology for that matter, as "opinion", then this is not a request for debate. Someguy1221 (talk) 04:20, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

That is pretty much my view of the entire field of sociology, yes. Sociology, at least as practiced in US universities, appears to be a political theory masquerading as a science. --Trovatore (talk) 20:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

It is, nevertheless, accepted as a legitimate area of study along with the other disciplines, and it has a formal standing that astrology, for example, will never have. It's subject to the same peer reviews and other thresholds that other disciplines must also satisfy. I've often challenged people on the Science ref desk who come out with categorical statements like "Such-and-such does not exist", on the basis that they personally do not believe it. Such incredibly shoddy demonstrations of the scientific method do not mean that I throw the baby out with the bathwater and reject all of science. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 21:14, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I am not saying that sociology cannot be a science. I am saying that, as currently practiced, it is a sham; a dishonest attempt by a rather specific political theory to paint itself as science. --Trovatore (talk) 21:20, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

It depends on the society, the culture, the time period, the sub-culture within that society, and the particular social context. These elements depend on the particular social construction of gender and sexuality in a place time space. There is a wide literature on gender and sexuality in human societies. If you are interested I would suggest you start with a University introduction to sociology, and a University introduction to Women's and Gender Studies. Popular theoretical constructions of how gender and sexuality work in the advanced western countries include concepts such as patriarchy, heteronormativity (related to Queer theories) and rights based "liberal" feminism. Often the universality of these concepts is challenged in general, or in particular by theorists of social structure who emphasise race or class more significantly. In the particular case of your speculation, men are probably general forbidden to compliment each other's fascade because of the construction of masculinity as active and the construction of the compliment as an action performed upon another; complimenting a man's appearance would force him into being the subject of the male gaze and thus limit his agency (and by implication, social potence). Gazing upon other men emasculates them (cf: the construction of imaginary violent rape amongst men who otherwise don't have sex with men—the prison rape turns you into a bitch). Being gazed upon unmans, much like women are unmanned by being gazed upon (along with other phenomena). Fifelfoo (talk) 04:31, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, my unsigned comrade, I'd agree that much of the above is speculation; but, I am trying to speculate around the domain of the problem and give links to theoretical concepts or literatures that the OP might read. I don't think the problem of male heterosexual compliments has been much studied—I don't think it is one of the core problems of gender or queer studies; even for those students of gender and sexuality who focus on heterosexual masculinity. Fifelfoo (talk) 04:47, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Could it simply be that most men don't know what an attractive man is whereas women are bombarded with what's "pretty" every day and therefore have a good idea of what that means? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 04:29, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

• It took me about 20 seconds with Google Scholar to turn up some good leads on research in the area of male-male compliments, namely by typing the phrase "male-male compliments" into Google scholar. The first few papers look promising, and I'm sure some tweaking could turn up even better results on research in the field. See here. --Jayron32 05:23, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
  • And a little further digging turned up this reference titled "The ethnography of English compliments and compliment responses: A contrastive sketch" which deals exactly and thoroughly with the OPs question about the differences between males giving compliments to other males, verses female-female and male-female interactions. --Jayron32 05:32, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I've never seen two female friends break each others balls, nor have I ever seen two male friends compliment each others outfits. It goes beyond sexual thoughts, down to the large difference in how men act towards other men, and women towards other women, being that women generally give many more compliments than men do. 65.95.22.16 (talk) 17:08, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Women also have a reputation (probably not usually but surely occasionally deserved) for cattiness/bitchiness towards each other, a trait not normally associated with men. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 20:33, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I've always been of the believe that modern history is a blip in the radar, and that we still act entirely on caveman mentality and instinct, as that dominated over a million years of our history. The half-century prevalence of homosexuality in main stream culture has had zero meaningful impact on our behaviours. Men do not want to place value in other men, for that lowers or reduces by comparison their own value. In prehistoric times, the alpha male would lead the group, mate with the women, and pass their seed to the next generation. The beta males would serve to gratify the women, but they wouldn't have the opportunity to procreate. So, clearly the advantage was in being the alpha male. To do this, you had to dominate, and not be a subordinate. If you put two sexually-active males of any species together, they will establish this pecking order through fighting, sparring, pinning, humping, or some other method of showing off their stuff. As humans, however, we've developed communication that allows us to establish this order through subconscious body language and cues. FOr this reason, men don't want to establish themselves as the subordinate male, complimenting the alpha; they want to be the alpha receiving those compliments. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  _¢ 17:21, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't mean to be funny, but do you have a source for any of that (in particular the structure of prehistoric society)? It seems a lot like a "just-so story". AlmostReadytoFly (talk) 17:32, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

It's essentially a summary of any introduction to sociology and anthropology course. I'm not reading these off a book or anything, just providing my knowledge based on what I've learned from several courses on the subject. - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ  _¢ 17:41, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I'd take Floydian's description of prehistoric society with a grain of salt. No quality sociology or anthropology course is going to offer such a hard and fast description on something that can only be inferred based on indirect observations. --Daniel 18:08, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Floydian seems to be thinking of, like, lions or something. Adam Bishop (talk) 20:30, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Please see the above and below comments, you can very easily tell most wikipedians are men as they like to put each other down a lot. If wikipedia was mostly women you would likely see comments such as "that was a good answer" - something that has yet to ever occur on wikipedia. Canadian Spring (talk) 21:19, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to say yours was an example of those good answers of which you speak, but since your assertion can be easily shown to be complete bollocks, it would be quite wrong of me to compliment you. I'll just leave it at that. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 21:44, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Getting a bit catty are we? Canadian Spring (talk) 21:50, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

No, I'm simply withholding the barnstar you might have earned had you spoken the truth. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ 22:18, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Compliments used to be handed out routinely on the Ref Desks: User:Dweller/Dweller's Ref Desk thread of the week award... but some people didn't like it. --Dweller (talk) 09:19, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

*I think it depends on the context. A fine comment I heard recently is that men insult each other publicly, and don't mean it, and women compliment each other publicly, and don't mean it. HiLo48 (talk) 21:23, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I guess I missed the part where this rose above a request for debate. A shame the OP didn't ask for something with an objective answer, like how to decompose H2O2. μηδείς (talk) 20:10, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

How do I sign up as a foreign mercenary for the Free Syrian Army?

In case this makes a difference, I am a natural-born American citizen. Even though I scored 85 on the ASVAB, I couldn't join the Air Force due to anxiety issues.

That's why instead of serving our own military in an official capacity, I'd like to serve a different military in a differing capacity.

That is, if my life fails to pan out with my other plans, hence "fails" altogether somehow.

I can't go to the Syrian embassy in Washington, nor their regional consulates; they're still governed by the Al-Assad regime.

Is there a Free Syrian Army contact in America that I can speak to in order to get recruited?

Also, having successfully completed 144 credit-hours of college, I'd like to be paid a minimum of 10¢ per credit-hour succeeded, per hour, so $14.40/hour. Would the FSA be able to pay me that much? Also, do they provide sign-on bonuses to mercenaries?

I'd like to start with launching rockets from a distance, then graduate up to operating UCAVs that supporting nations give or sell to the FSA. Thanks. --70.179.170.114 (talk) 18:02, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Mercenaries can be quite well paid (significantly more than the figure you mention). However, organisations aiming to recruit mercenaries expect them to come with training. In the USA, such training is available to private citizens from what was formerly known as Blackwater, here. Blackwater may also be able to offer you employment (probably in places other than Syria) on completion of suitable training.

"Firing rockets" in the sense of the commonly available rocket-propelled grenade is not something that can usefully be done "from a distance", because they are not very accurate. Any firing position close enough to be useful, would also put you within easy range of rifles and automatic weapons used by the other side.

I don't know if the Free Syrian Army currently has access to drones, and it seems very unlikely they would provide training on-the-job for that (although other agencies might).

I'm sure the Syrian Free Army has representatives in the USA, just as the Libyan rebels had representatives in the UK during the fighting there. However, joining the Syrian Free Army directly might be hampered if you don't share their language or religion.

Finally, although I can't give medical advice, people with anxiety issues may not be well suited to be mercenaries. Good luck! --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:18, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I'll echo some of what Demiurge said, but I'm going to be little harsher. The FSA will have zero interest hiring an untrained person with anxiety issues who doesn't speak Arabic and is apparently only interested in very low risk jobs. You may want to look into something like the French Foreign Legion, but you are likely to run into the same medical issues you did trying to join the USAF. --Daniel 18:31, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

(after ec)Do they still have a '"Professional Adventurers" wanted' (or whatever it's called) section in Soldier Of Fortune magazine? Also, I'd imagine that the best way to become a mercenary would be to have already served in the military in some combat capacity already - and thus already come with the required skills. Realistically, no-one is going to hire the guy who collects toy soldiers, has read 'The Wild Geese' and 'The Dogs Of War' and now fancies killing his fellow man for pay (would you want him next to you on the battlefield?) unless they need someone to stand at the front and soak up bullets - or clear mines with a stick. --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 18:39, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't think this is a serious question. Or is it? -- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 18:40, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

From the OPs extensive history on the RD I would say it sort of is, although I doubt even if the responses had been more heartening the OP will have any more follow thru then their plenty of other ideas they've brought to the RD, including joining the Korean army. (Although most of their proposals seem to have been the sort which couldn't get encouraging responses.) Nil Einne (talk) 19:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't think the Free Syrian Army pays its fighters. People join it because they support the cause. What money they have goes on food and ammunition. Also, the Air Force doesn't let people with anxiety issues join for a very good reason - being in a war zone tends to make even the calmest people a little anxious. Someone with existing anxiety issues wouldn't stand a chance. Also, you speak as though this is a plan for a future - the Free Syrian Army isn't going to exist for long. Either they'll win and disband (or become simply the Syrian Army) or they will get wiped out. --Tango (talk) 19:44, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

There's always talk about "foreign mercenaries" being involved, although how factual such talk is, I don't know. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:08, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

If you want to run UAVs, you should join the US or Israeli armed forces, since they have them. Being a US citizen, I assume that would be the easier route. StuRat (talk) 19:45, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

The UK armed forces also operate UAVs, and there is a fair amount of news coverage about how their use is being rapidly widened to other organisations for various purposes. Maybe becoming an UAV expert first would be the best route. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:08, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

But if the USAF bounced him out for psychological reasons they're not likely to let him fly a drone. Neither is the UK or the FFL. --Mr.98 (talk) 22:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Like I said, the use of drones is being rapidly expanded. For example, to police forces, environmental watchdogs, who knows what else. If he gets a job flying drones for some NGO monitoring deforestation, or something, he might then get a job flying drones for some U.S. police force, and he might then market himself to the U.S. military as someone with substantial expertise in flying drone and training others to fly drones, and all of a sudden, OMG he's in charge of an entire wing of drones over some new U.S. protectorate not very dissimilar to Syria! --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:36, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

From what I saw on the TV news last night, the Free Syrian Army is hardly a professional army offering comprehensive training (or pay). They seemed to young, inexperienceed ordinary people, motivated more by a hatred of the Al Assad regime than a desire for a bit of soldiery. What training there was, seemed to be "this is an AK-47, the magazine goes in here and the bullets come out of this end when you pull the trigger" and "this is an RPG launcher, the RPG goes here and the rest works just like an AK-47". I strongly suspect that they will take any help they can get so long as you can demonstrate a desire to fight for their cause. To do that, you will need to demonstrate that they can trust you not to shoot them all dead as soon as their backs are turned, and that will probably involve taking part in close action against the regime while under the watchful eye of someone else. It really is not the place for someone with anxiety issues and an inability to speak the language. UCAVs? - best just to forget about that part of your plan. Astronaut (talk) 08:27, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Any American signing up is likely to be regarded with some suspicion. With Al-Qaida increasingly becoming involved, suspicion of American is likely to increase. I can't tell how serious you are, but I think you should bear in mind the possibility of being shot as a suspected spy. --Colapeninsula (talk) 08:42, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Hello Manhattan Kansas! Given your interest in washlets, perhaps you should research Syrian anal hygiene practices before traveling there. -- 203.82.95.201 (talk) 14:04, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

PS2 COUNCIL

I could only find the slim version of the PlayStation 2 on sale at ebay. The average price for the site was about 45$. I want to sell my regular play station 2. How much would be the price of a Playstation 2 that is not "slim"? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.146.124.35 (talk) 21:06, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

You didn't search ebay very hard... . --Tango (talk) 21:24, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

August 7

Video games for ps2

Where can I find out how long it usually takes PS2 videogames to sell on EBay? Thanks--99.146.124.35 (talk) 03:02, 7 August 2012 (UTC)anonymous

eBay auctions have a variety of auction lengths available to the seller so it entirely depends on how long they select. If you mean how many attempts well again that totally varies - this time on the age and quality and reputation of the product. I would suggest you "watch" a few items on ebay and monitor the results. The more you watch the more "accurate" the average you will gain... But there is no definative answer to this question. gazhiley 09:30, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

There's a way to check how much items have sold for on ebay. That function might also show how long the item was on the market for. 99.43.78.36 (talk) 14:19, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Color based classifications

Looking for info on color based classifications esp for reading materials. Would appreciate any help — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.83.244.183 (talk) 04:06, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

You may need to be a little more specific. Colour of what? HiLo48 (talk) 09:14, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

The OP said color, not colour, whatever that is. μηδείς (talk) 16:37, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

LOL. Didn't realise that I had done an automatic translation. Oh well, I'm flexible. I hope the OP is. HiLo48 (talk) 19:40, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Are you asking about the schemes for books for elementary/primary schools which classify books according to difficulty? There's a lot of different schemes. The Oxford Reading Tree system goes (low to high) pink, red, yellow, blue, green, orange, turquoise, purple, gold, white. Rigby Star is similar with lilac, pink, red, yellow, blue, green, orange, turquoise, purple, gold, white, lime.. The Enterprise Program from Renaissance Learning has a completely different scheme with even more levels. The Accelerated Reader scheme, popular in the USA and running up to grade 7, goes red, blue, orange, yellow, green, purple, gold star. --Colapeninsula (talk) 13:39, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

There might be a color-based classification system in Category:Library cataloging and classification.

—Wavelength (talk) 14:41, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

How to share large collection of references on a single topic

I've got a collection of news articles (PDFs) from 2005 on Hurricane Katrina: http://en.wikipedia.org/Hurricane_Katrina. I am unsure of the best way to share this information. Would it be best to share on that page, or my company's page: http://en.wikipedia.org/Acadian_Ambulance. We would like to share this information on the company page to communicate our history and significant role in the event.--Sabrina LeBeouf (talk) 18:06, 7 August 2012 (UTC)Sabrina LeBeouf http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Sabrina_LeBeouf

The news articles are probably under copyright and we're very careful to obey copyright law, so you can't post them here. Are the articles about your company's role in dealing with Katrina? If so, the best thing to do is probably put links to them on the talk page of the article on your company. --Tango (talk) 18:58, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

August 8

Richard Hale

Please Please help me. The subject is Richard Hale a actor who is listed with you but no article on him allows to find info to get in contact with him or family still living. His daughter is my half sister and I am trying to find contact with Richard Hale or his daughter Melissa Hale. It is so very very hard because I see Richard Hale has passed and he was a good actor. Please help me with contact info to his family. Thank you August 7,2012 I am Susan Smith, twin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.126.176 (talk) 04:02, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

We do not have information above what is available in the article, which indicates he died over 30 years ago. μηδείς (talk) 04:05, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes Richard Hale is in a article you have and I know he passed away. I am desperately trying to find out how to contact the Hales as his daughter is my half sister, I lost contact. I am susan smith, twin, No article even his facebook page lists a way to contact Richard Hales family or sponser of his acting career or articles. Please help me. Thank you. August 7 2012. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.126.176 (talk) 04:13, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Added a heading. Rojomoke (talk) 06:46, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

It's a tricky one. I'd suggest the following. His most famous film, according to our article, was Friendly Persuasion (film). Contact the PR department at Allied Artists International, the successor company to the studio that made the film. They might sniff a chance at some positive publicity around helping you. --Dweller (talk) 09:15, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Alternatively, you could try writing a letter to the sort of trade magazines that any of his fellow actors that are still living might read. One of them might be able to help. While Hale himself would be 120 if he was still alive, it's not unreasonable to imagine that he may have acted alongside people who were young (say 20) toward the end of his film career in the late 1950s, and that one or two of them, now in their 80s, are still alive. It's also not impossible that children of actors may have friendships with children of actors. --Dweller (talk) 09:29, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I wonder if you could get a letter published in Variety (magazine), or whatever the film trade magazine is these days? Maybe his old agent will be reading and could help. It's a long shot but worth a try. --TammyMoet (talk) 18:12, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

One could simply hire a private detective, assuming it is worth the money. μηδείς (talk) 21:52, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Dont let it be downloaded..

In most topics, as we want to play the sound, we have to download and play the sound..It is taking too much time..Instead, If it is like, we can hear the music when we press the PLAY itself, it would be better(As in some other topics)..Give dowload option too..Will you?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.226.99.118 (talk) 07:06, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Do you mean Misplaced Pages articles with video or sound clips ? Or are you talking about some other website ? In any case, downloading it first reduces the freezing up and repeating you often get when trying to play it over the internet. StuRat (talk) 07:50, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I think (s)he means his browser is not configured to play Ogg files, so it downloads them instead of playing them on the page, and he doesn't want to have to do this. The user is from Tamil Nadu, India, according to the IP geolocator; I don't speak Tamil or I'd try helping them directly that way.  dalahäst  09:13, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Well, I have to agree, the format for sound files at wikipedia SUCKS! and I wish there were consensus to adpot a more convenient mode. (SUCKS!) μηδείς (talk) 00:39, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

If you insist on sticking with the Foundation's standards, you have, like, four options, and they probably all suck. Someguy1221 (talk) 00:44, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

MediaWiki is built on 100% open-source software and standards. That means that Microsoft / Apple / Google / Real media formats aren't supported, convenient though that would be. The solution is to support open-source software development so that everyone in the world can benefit, rather than shareholders of corporations. Franamax (talk) 01:11, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

By standards, you mean lack of standards.... μηδείς (talk) 03:45, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Franamax, clearly you are anti-business and un-American, and you are probably a communist too. (Smiley.) -- Hoary (talk) 01:39, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

F*ckin hippies. μηδείς (talk) 01:51, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Right back 'atcha buddy. :) Not too many commercial ventures around these days occupied at publishing encyclopediae for profit, are there? We are a seriously disruptive technology. My concern these days is actually the amount of money donated and floating about within the WMF structure itself, since history shows that the prospect of money is corrosive to hippies and turns them into yuppies. Franamax (talk) 05:39, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

* Keep in mind that these Ogg Oggilby sound files are part of the wikipedia Master Plan: To ensure copyright security, they've selected a sound player that doesn't work. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 01:52, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Whatever happened to the Yippies? μηδείς (talk) 21:50, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Weight of footwear

Hi,

could you tell me what are lighter please?

A pair of Inov-8 Evoskin trainers or a pair of Vivobarefoot Ultra trainers in size UK9?

Mnay thanks in advance — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.244.223.82 (talk) 11:36, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

The Vivobarefoot is 0.1 oz (around 3 g) lighter according to. --Colapeninsula (talk) 14:10, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

"Catamaran cycling", maybe

No, nothing about water.

You're on a bicycle, but you have to deliver another bicycle. So you ride the more comfortable one (with one hand on its handlebar) and propel the other via a hand on its stem.

Is there a term for riding one while propelling another? -- Hoary (talk) 14:47, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it's called "bicycle accident". Looie496 (talk) 15:57, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I think you've already got the term - "riding one bike whilst pushing another". Just as there's no French word for contingency, there's no English word for doing what you describe. It's not that the French don't understand what a contingency is, just that they use two or three words to describe it. Same thing here. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 17:04, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I found a Youtube clip of people doing this with motorcycles -- but if you watch it, you can see that they use one foot in addition to one hand to keep the second bike stable. I think this would be extremely difficult if you also had to pedal -- at the very least it would be an acrobatic tour de force. Looie496 (talk) 17:26, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

shows some doing it for a very short distance over totaly flat terrain without turning. suggests some people occasionally do it over short distances but even they agree it isn't particularly easy or safe and also tends to hurt your wrist. That source and suggests other alternatives which safer and also less likely to be illegal if you're doing it in a public area (particularly a public road or cycle track). Nil Einne (talk) 20:10, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

We don't even have a word for it in Dutch, and it's pretty common over here in Holland. Often the easiest way to get your bicycle home after a flat tire for people without a driver's license, because you can usually find someone to loan you a bicycle to pick it up. Done it frequently for stretches longer than 15 minutes, but it's a terribly cold hand in winter if you forgot to bring proper gloves. Unilynx (talk) 21:29, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

(and as for safety, a flat country and back-pedal brakes help a lot) Unilynx (talk) 21:35, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

If you have a quick release skewer or tools; some bungee cords; and the other bike having a carrier rack, do this instead: image of a bicycle towing another bicycle. Fifelfoo (talk) 23:02, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you all! Of course I only had a mild interest in the term (if any) for this in itself; I wanted the term in order to be able to duckduckgo for it more easily. You've very kindly done the latter for me too. I've pushed-and-ridden, and successfully too; but that was a long time ago, traffic was lighter and the police fewer and probably better-humored. Some time very soon, in suburban Tokyo, I'll be faced with a choice between (A) riding-and-pushing and (B) walking while pushing both (a strain on both wrists, of course). Ah, maybe I'll instead (C) walk one (riding it more than 500m would do my legs in and put me off cycling for a week), take the train back, and ride the other. (Sadly, riding and carrying -- a possibility illustrated in one of the delightful links you kindly provided -- would not be an option: the smaller one is no mamachari but it does have mudguards, etc. and would injure my shoulder.) -- Hoary (talk) 00:03, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Feed back points on ebay

How long does it usually take to get the 10 feedback points nessecary to sell lots (sets of similar items) on ebay? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.146.124.35 (talk) 17:43, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

How long will it take you to sell 10 items? It's usually about 3 - 5 days before people leave feedback, so let's say 5 days after the 10th item you sell. --TammyMoet (talk) 18:09, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Which News/Newspaper/Magazine Sites Have the Best Graphics and Interactive Graphics?

I'd say the New York Times's website graphics (such as its maps) are definitely amazing, but are there any other news/newspaper/magazine websites which a lot of interesting and amazing graphics? Futurist110 (talk) 22:54, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

If you can extend this to video: The Guardian (London) seems to have decided that conventional, authorized video of Olympics events is prohibitively expensive but that it should show these events (or their highlights) all the same. Its solution? Example. Recommended! -- Hoary (talk) 00:11, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Wow. That was pretty neat. Thank you for sharing that. :) Do you know of any other good news websites with good interactive graphics, such as maps? Futurist110 (talk) 01:54, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

The Guardian also has some neat interactive graphics that don't involve lego. Index here. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:30, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Without wishing to turn this into a Guardian love-in, their data journalism section offers some good interactive charts, maps and tables. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 11:11, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Futurist110 (talk) 06:48, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

August 9

Coast to coast

this has nothing to do with copy right violations they offer the episodes free but i need a large download. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.142.178.36 (talk) 20:03, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

You just said that you have to pay for the Coast to Coast websites I found on the official website. If it's being offered for free elsewhere, it's pirated and a copyright violation. Ian.thomson (talk) 20:08, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

You seem to misunderstand how copyrights work. c2c is the only organization that can legally authorize copying of their programs. The fact that they offer some episodes for free has no bearing on the legality of downloading from someone else, and even if something is free at one point on time, the copyright holder is permitted to make it unfree later on. Someguy1221 (talk) 20:09, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Well, it is possible they might also offer them for free, with ads, like Hulu does for TV shows. StuRat (talk) 03:55, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Retaining independent participation after rendering sovereignty to US

Gentlemen: I am addressing this request to your unit since no related information was found in the support section.

I am a resident of Puerto Rico, a Caribbean island, first a possession of the United States as a result of the spanish-american war in 1898 and later a territory of the United States In the 19's. As a territory we have an Olympic Committee and participate in the Olympic Games separate from the US and our national anthem is played during the presentation of a gold medal.

Next November 6 we will participate in a referendum or plebiscite in order to become the 51st State of the Union, an Associated Republic, or an Independent Republic.

Hong Kong has participated in the Olympic Games as a sovereign nation since 1952 and in 1997 transferred the sovereignty to the People's Republic of China but remained participating in the games separate from China. Upon the presentation of a gold medal, Hong Kong's national anthem is played and not China's. We are uncertain if this will work for us.

I have contacted several offices of the International Olympic Committee to clarify the issue and how to proceed in the event we become a state but to no avail. Maybe I am not addressing my correspondence to the appropriate unit and this is where I feel you can help me. I need the email address of the office that have the authority or knowledge to answer my question. If not possible, you might recommend where to address my request in order to find how to proceed.

Your help concerning above matter will be greatly appreciated.

Looking forward to hear from you within a reasonable and possible time, I remain,

Respectfully yours,

William Rodríguez - From my iPad Captain, USA (Retired Disabled Veteran) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.224.176.196 (talk) 18:13, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Is your concern what will happen to the PR Olympic team? As for "Associated Republic", which clause of the US Constitution does that fall under? μηδείς (talk) 21:47, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I presume whatever clause the Compact of Free Association and various existing Associated states of the US come under. Nil Einne (talk) 03:42, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

The first article does not mention any treaty between sovereign nations, just a US law offering financial aide to sovereign countries. That is not binding above the will of Congress--it does not have the binding status of a treaty as supreme law under the Constitution. The second article offers nothing about US treaties. Do we have an article on this pending referendum? I can see statehood, independence, or territorial status. But this non-territorial option seems like a fantasy. (Full disclosure, I have lived in PR, and advocate Statehood, while supporting independence.) μηδείς (talk) 04:45, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

My point is, there is an existing model for a state/republic in free association with the US whatever the constitutional ramifications (which I don't personally care about). Whether this is the model that is planned, or whether free association with the US is even on the table, I can't say. It's somewhat besides the point, as your original question seemed to me to be concerned which clause a free associated state could fall under missing the fact it's hardly a new thing for the US, so there is at least one model which seems to work under the US constitution. If you wanted to know what specific model is planned for PR it would have been helpful if you are were clearer earlier on, in particular I don't see any reason to look at it solely from a US constitutional viewpoint. I presume the referendum planners did consider the constituonal issues and came to the conclusion whatever options on the table were workable (in their opinion). Nil Einne (talk) 16:06, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

As it turns out, there is an article Puerto Rican status referendum, 2012 which seems to confirm the three options are statehood, independence or free association, if they want to change (they will also be asked if they want to change from the current status). The source appears to confirm free association would be modeled after the existing US models. In fact it notes the Spanish name is or was similar to "Freely Associated State of Puerto Rico" in the past, but in English this name was not used because Puerto Rico did not fit the normal definition of a freely associated state. BTW, our article on the compact notes some criticism (albeit from what I can tell, not much related to the constitutional issues), these will likely be something for PR citizens to consider but again based on how the existing models which they aim to follow are working; not because a freely associated state with the US is some sort of untested fantasy which goes against the US constitution. Nil Einne (talk) 16:20, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

The status of Puerto Rico would depend on the views of the US Olympic Committee and the existing PR Olympic Committee, as well as other parts of the Olympic movement. Generally geographical regions only get a team if they're distinct political entities rather than integral parts of another state. If you choose closer integration with the USA, this will mean giving up some of the perks of PR's current status. You could contact the US Olympic Committee and PR Olympic Committee to see if they have an opinion, but it's unlikely anyone can give an accurate prediction of what will happen until all the representations are made. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:29, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Moving to canada questions.

I would like to move to Canada after i graduate. I am getting a small medical degree in medical technology for CAT scan oporation, would i be able to move to canada and retain my status and get a job at a hospital? Would montreal or vancouver be better? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.142.178.36 (talk) 18:55, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I have no idea about the licensing, but who cares where in Canada? If you want my opinion, the sooner you leave, the better. μηδείς (talk) 20:17, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

You can't go around hatting questions you don't like and then give answers like this. Mingmingla (talk) 22:44, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

All that fanfare about how RD is too chatty and NOT a place for opinion ... Royor (talk) 05:04, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Move to Canada, eh? From where? HiLo48 (talk) 20:20, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I have plans of moving to Canada from the usa for a better quality of life and a safer enviroment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.142.178.36 (talk) 20:28, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

It looks like you would need to write an exam to be certified as a technologist in Canada, see here. As far as moving or immigrating, you can come on a work visa if you have a job offer on the table, but the employer has to show that no Canadian is available to fill the position. There is a point system for scoring skilled workers for immigration. Knowing both official languages would be a big plus, especially if you want to live in Montreal. Montreal is a very cosmopolitan city, but getting a little shabby, and has brutal winters. Vancouver is awesome, unless you have a problem with 4 straight months of rain. :) Toronto is the largest population and economic centre, so you should be considering that area too. However your best bet of getting a work visa is quite likely going to be in Alberta or Saskatchewan where the economic and population growth is. Hope that helps. Franamax (talk) 20:46, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Brutal winters? I don't really think so. Now who needs to adjust their slipping hosiery, eh? Plus they must be one of the few cities that erect monuments to their enemies. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 07:41, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Franamax. also i want to move to vancouver but i hear its crime ridden how does that compare to a adverage american city? is it really that bad there? Also i love the rain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.142.178.36 (talk) 20:56, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Vancouver has one area, the Downtown Eastside, Hastings & Main, which is as bad as anything I've seen in the US. There is also a problem with gang rivalry, which the gang members conveniently solve by killing each other, so if you have a hobby of marijuana and cocaine smuggling across the US border you should watch your back. Asian people who keep their money at home occasionally get home-invaded. And cars do get broken into, which is very annoying. Beyond that though, not especially crime-ridden at all, most residents of the city have nothing to worry about, you are not at risk of like or limb here. Franamax (talk) 21:24, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I really want to move there but could i survive in the town making 60,000 a year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.142.178.36 (talk) 21:38, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Does your "quality of life" requirement include a desire for lots of snow and ice? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:00, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Vancouver isn't very cold. It's warmer than a large part of the US. It does rain a lot though. --Daniel 23:25, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

If so, Montreal is a fine choice. Vancouver rarely gets either for more than a couple of days a year. Otherwise, Vancouver is a very expensive place to live. That said, 60,000 will get you enough to rent a decent place and be able to eat out. Just don't expect to buy any property in the city. The average house price is more than $750000, and that's with the Canadian dollar nearly at par with the US dollar. I've lived my whole live in Vancouver (well, suburbs) and it's a fine place aside from the prices. And if you itch to visit the US, Seattle is only 2 hours away.

As for the rain, it's not so bad. It's not like monsoons. It's more like drizzle most of the time. Mingmingla (talk) 23:32, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Constant rainfall could be depressing. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:47, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

It's better than the alternative. :) Mingmingla (talk) 00:31, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

August 10

Digital antenna range and signal overlap

A friend who has cable TV (the one who would benefit from a directional parabolic speaker) recently bought a digital widescreen TV and has seen his cable bill rise by 50% after the end of a year-long promotion. He is considering terminating cable and all pay service entirely to use the off-air signals available in his South Jersey Delaware Valley market. (I have strongly recommended this, since the free HD signal is far far better than the cable signal, and, other than Turner Classic Movies, 24 hr news, and The Weather Channel, he has no use for Syfy since they cancelled Farscape or the History Channel since it has become the hick story channel. Netflix, Hulu, and pirated movie and TV downloads will more than fulfill his needs, and he can watch about 1/3 of the Phillies and all the Eagles games over the air for free. (His significant other can watch Dancing with the Stars either on air or pirated the next day at no charge as well.

He has looked into buying a digital antenna. Our article seems quite good. But he has read claims that he can receive signals from 150 miles away, which would mean the Baltimore, MD, Reading, PA, and New York City broadcasts would become available. He has two concerns, neither of which our article addresses. First, are the 150- mile range claims credible? My opinion of the reviews at Amazon.com is that they read like advertising copy, and, since they are written by reviewers who have no other review writing history, seem like highly uncreditable paid plugs. His second question is, if the range claims are true, and he gets overlapping channel reception from different broadcasters in different markets using the same channel, will he not just get interference? Or will a rotating antenna be necessary, with the signal received depending on how the antenna is aimed? Does anyone have any information I can refer to him? Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 04:27, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

150 miles seems quite absurd for digital TV. The most you can expect is maybe 50 miles, and then only with ideal conditions and a heck on a directional antenna, on a tall mast. One thing to note is that anyone selling a "digital antenna" is probably out to scam you. That is, there is nothing inherently digital or analog about an antenna, that comes in later, depending on how your TV interprets the signal. I get pretty good reception using nothing but rabbit ears and a UHF loop. The next step up is a good omni-directional antenna for the roof. For max reception, go with a directional rooftop antenna with a rotor, so you can turn it remotely. I recommend this site to see what his reception will be: (any signal listed as strong can be picked up with just rabbit ears and a UHF loop). Note that they only list the primary station on each frequency, but many frequencies also have substations (so 47.1 also comes with 47.2, 47.3, 47.4 and 47.5). Another website has more detailed info, which is needed for directional antennae:. This will tell you the direction and distance to each broadcast tower. StuRat (talk) 05:40, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

His rooftop connection gets worse reception on one VHF (PBS) and two UHF (one PBS, one for-profit) stations than it did when it was analog transmission. The antennas I saw on Amazon said "optimized for digital singnals". Surely that isn't pure crap? μηδείς (talk) 06:39, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Almost pure crap. The only thing that can be optimized for digital is that digital tends to avoid low VHF in the US, due to power restriction regulations at those frequencies. There were also some high UHF channels added to analog TV above channel 63 that were never much used and were finally dropped when they went to digital. So, an antenna that gets better reception in the high VHF and the UHF bands for channels 63 and under could be said to be "optimized for digital TV", I suppose.

To see all the strong stations, including substations, in his area, try: http://www.titantv.com/. StuRat (talk) 07:52, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

As for why he might get worse reception under digital than for analog on the same station, there are many possible reasons:

1) Digital does not handle weak signals well. A signal that was just a bit fuzzy under analog becomes completely unwatchable under digital. So, he'd need a better antenna if this is the problem.

2) Digital stations are often broadcast on a different frequency than the analog stations were, even if the same channel number is displayed on the screen. So, his antenna may have been better at the old frequency than the new one. If this is the problem, he needs to find the new frequency and get an antenna optimized for that.

3) The digital transition also resulted in a lot of changes in which station is broadcast from which tower. Often, several channels share the same tower. So, the signal might be coming from farther away, or in a different direction than before. If this is a problem, a better antenna may be needed, or a directional antenna may need to be rotated to point to the new tower location.

If you give me his ZIP code, and the stations he's having problems with, I can comment further. StuRat (talk) 08:13, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Fancy Moves in .doc and .pdf

I'm preparing a presentation to hand over in .doc or .pdf and I have compiled a long list but it's way too long but I can't bear to cut it down. Is there a way for me to in .doc or .pdf create a short list and then have a "roll over" button that allows the page to switch to the long list? TY everybody.

Toottoottrain (talk) 06:03, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

You can do almost anything in Word using macros, but it will require a degree of programming. Here's some info on hiding and showing text. --Colapeninsula (talk) 09:35, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

This won't in any way answer your question, but I'd like to point out that when you're writing a presentation (or, in fact, anything that you want someone else to read) there's no such thing as too short. People (especially business people) have extremely short attention spans, and the amount of effort you will need to put in to achieve what you're trying to do will vastly outweigh, by some orders of magnitude, the amount of effort that your audience will put in to reading it. I guess that if you're writing something for a degree course where you need to hit a minimum word count then you might not cut stuff down so ruthlessly, but even so, you'd be much better served by trimming as much as possible in order to get more varied thoughts in. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 09:42, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

USSR/USA comparison

I remember seeing a wikitable somewhere (on this site, of course) that compared the USSR and the United States in several aspects (culture, area, economy, etc.). I wanted to look at it again, and I could have sworn that it was in the Cold War page, alas it was not there. Could someone help me find it? Thanks! 64.229.153.184 (talk) 06:12, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I came across the same table a few days ago. It is at this link. Tombo7791 (talk) 16:47, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

US food labeling laws and health benefit claims

How is it that foods like Triscuit can make health claims on their packaging ("may help reduce the risk of heart disease...diets rich in whole grain foods & other plant foods, & low in saturated fat & cholesterol may help reduce the risk of heart disease") while many other food products, supplements, and beverages such as beer and wine, cannot? For a recent example, the FDA cracked down on POM Wonderful for making similar health claims (see POM_Wonderful#FTC cease and desist order). However, I see little, if any difference between the health claims made by Triscuit and those made by POM. Could someone with more knowledge about this issue than me, please explain it? Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 10:14, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

It's probably the use of weasel words like "may" that get them past the regulators. "Eating at Taco Bell may reduce your chance of getting cancer" (since you won't live long enough to get it). StuRat (talk) 10:17, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Why are attorneys and judges making decisions about health benefit claims? Shouldn't these types of decisions be made by uninvolved health scientists? Am I living in a parallel universe or something? Viriditas (talk) 10:19, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the interaction between the legal system and science is never good, as judges and attorneys seems to know just about nothing about science or math, and their decisions reflect that. StuRat (talk) 10:23, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Wasn't there a plan to rollout a "science court"? I remember hearing about it back in 1995 or so. Viriditas (talk) 10:29, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

The current way that the law handles science is about as bad as you can imagine. It used to be that you'd call on scientific experts and try and suss out whether the scientific community thought something was crackpot or not (under the Frye standard). But since Daubert (1993), the way it works is to basically have the judges decide what's valid science and what's not. Which is awful, since judges know, in most cases, literally nothing about detailed scientific questions, and it turns out it's very easy to confuse a judge. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:58, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Also note that Triscuit is piggybacking off existing studies showing the health benefits of whole grains and plant foods low in saturated fats & cholesterol. It seems that POM lacks such studies. StuRat (talk) 10:23, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure? Really, I'm seeing no difference in the claims at all. Viriditas (talk) 10:27, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

It is an extremely fine — some would argue nonexistent — line between what is a legal claim and what is not in this respect. You aren't allowed to claim that non-FDA reviewed foods or supplements can cure any specific disease or have any specific medical effect. Furthermore, part of the issue with POM is they twisted the results of certain studies, ignored evidence that contradicted them, and so on — this was ruled by the judge (see above regarding the importance of the judge) as being "deceptive". But it's a super fine line. Other products trying to do the Trisket thing have gotten smacked down by the FDA in the past; Cheerios in particular went too far in advertising the heart benefits of its fiber content. The main difference between the POM and Cheerios claims and those of Trisket are their specificity: POM and Cheerios put too much of a scientific specificity in their claimed effects (whether real or not, you can't make it sound like it's a drug), whereas Trisket keeps things vague. It's not really about there being studies or not being studies — it's about whether the consumer will think that they will get standardized, specific health outcomes out of consuming this food product, and whether the FDA has examined and approved such a food product for that sort of treatment.

In the end, I tend to agree with you that there is flagrant violation of this rule. There are huge numbers of foods and supplements which are essentially marketed as medicines of some sort without any FDA approval or confirmation — it is only about two steps down from being unregulated. (Some of this is by design; American law on "dietary supplements" was made purposefully loose and vague.) --Mr.98 (talk) 13:03, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

• My understanding is that the FDA has a list of specific statements that manufacturers are allowed to make, and specific criteria that must be met in order to make those statements -- the Triscuit statement is one of them. Looie496 (talk) 16:29, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Creepy wikipedia links

Can anyone supply me with links to some creepy wikipedia pages?

• Pages automatically checked for accidental language links
• Misplaced Pages resources for researchers
• Misplaced Pages help forums