| Revision as of 12:55, 24 August 2012 editMabuska (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers31,831 edits →Edit to lead: word in wrong place← Previous edit | Revision as of 12:59, 24 August 2012 edit undoMabuska (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers31,831 edits →Edit to leadNext edit → | ||
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| Mabuksa, rather than quoting ] which isn't relevant, or ] which is an essay, you might be better off quoting ] which is policy, and it reads "Consensus among a limited group of editors, at one place and time, cannot override community consensus on a wider scale. For instance, unless they can convince the broader community that such action is right, participants in a WikiProject cannot decide that some generally accepted policy or guideline does not apply to articles within its scope". ]] 11:17, 24 August 2012 (UTC) | Mabuksa, rather than quoting ] which isn't relevant, or ] which is an essay, you might be better off quoting ] which is policy, and it reads "Consensus among a limited group of editors, at one place and time, cannot override community consensus on a wider scale. For instance, unless they can convince the broader community that such action is right, participants in a WikiProject cannot decide that some generally accepted policy or guideline does not apply to articles within its scope". ]] 11:17, 24 August 2012 (UTC) | ||
| :Actually other guidelines link to those article sub-sections Mo ainm so they apply to more than just deletion for admins, but if that is how you want to dodge around them then ok. | :Actually other guidelines link to those article sub-sections Mo ainm so they apply to more than just deletion for admins<strike><small> , but if that is how you want to dodge around them then ok.</small></strike> it would appear. | ||
| :In response to Scolaire, the four of us who agree with Jon's proposed edit (including him) you can agree come from quite contrasting political thoughts, which makes it something quite unique on Misplaced Pages that they (in its entirety or not) see it as beneficial to ''this'' article. Though i would agree that a wider consensus would be required, and as with all Troubles related articles, outside input should always be sought anyways. | :In response to Scolaire, the four of us who agree with Jon's proposed edit (including him) you can agree come from quite contrasting political thoughts, which makes it something quite unique on Misplaced Pages that they (in its entirety or not) see it as beneficial to ''this'' article. Though i would agree that a wider consensus would be required, and as with all Troubles related articles, outside input should always be sought anyways. | ||
| :Any edit-warring is between Jon and Mo ainm. ] <sup>]</sup> 12:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC) | :Any edit-warring is between Jon and Mo ainm. ] <sup>]</sup> 12:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC) | ||
Revision as of 12:59, 24 August 2012
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 | A fact from UK City of Culture appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on 19 September 2010 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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Edit to lead
We don't use other organisation's styles but use our own MoS. Mo ainm~Talk 07:14, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
- I was using both, hence "styled as..." after the text using our own MoS. Nothing in the MoS to say that's a no-no, and MoS isn't policy anyway. What exactly is your objection to the potential addition? — Jon C. 10:15, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
- Indeed, MoS is a guideline. The MoS can be ignored if we are adding something of benefit or a consensus forms for something that should ignore it as an exception. Mabuska 12:23, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- My 2c is that the addition here is beneficial and in keeping with the MOS. --RA (talk) 14:09, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- See also the part of WP:LDERRY that states "Where an entity uses a particular name, regardless of whether it is Derry or Londonderry, use that name for the organisation; thus County Derry Post (newspaper), High Sheriff of County Londonderry, former Derry Central Railway, North West Liberties of Londonderry." — Jon C. 21:02, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- The MoS is used to avoid constant renaming of articles (and more), keep a neutral point of view, promote consistency in the encyclopedia, and avoid Stroke City-style terms perplexing to those unfamiliar with the dispute. Mo ainm~Talk 12:51, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
- Uh... yes, I know. Did you read any of the above? — Jon C. 14:04, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
- The MoS is used to avoid constant renaming of articles (and more), keep a neutral point of view, promote consistency in the encyclopedia, and avoid Stroke City-style terms perplexing to those unfamiliar with the dispute. Mo ainm~Talk 12:51, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
- See also the part of WP:LDERRY that states "Where an entity uses a particular name, regardless of whether it is Derry or Londonderry, use that name for the organisation; thus County Derry Post (newspaper), High Sheriff of County Londonderry, former Derry Central Railway, North West Liberties of Londonderry." — Jon C. 21:02, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- Since it's talking about a specific event, I think including the official nomenclature used is pretty useful. --HighKing (talk) 15:20, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
- @Jon that's for proper names not stylisations that's why all the examples given are actual proper names. Mo ainm~Talk 17:49, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
- The proper name for the UK CoC 2012 is Derry~Londonderry, as evidenced by its official website. — Jon C. 08:07, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
- Mo ainm, as you've now reverted again ("per imos" – groan) I hope to see you here soon. There are four people here that agree that the addition is useful, so I'll be expecting you to explain why you think your own opinion overrides the current (albeit limited) TP consensus. — Jon C. 11:50, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
- "Entity" refers to the name of the entity being talked about, that's why all the examples refer to the actual entity. Derry doesn't call itself Derry~Londonderry, that's what the "Culture Company 2013" call it. The entity in this case is "Culture Company 2013", what's so hard to understand? Mo ainm~Talk 20:36, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
- What else does WP:LDERRY say? "The naming dispute can be discussed in the articles when appropriate." which heavily implies it can be judged on an article per article basis depending on its merits. I'll also refer to WP:NOTUNANIMITY and WP:ROUGH CONSENSUS, the latter of which clearly states: "Per "ignore all rules", a local consensus can suspend a guideline in a particular case where suspension is in the encyclopedia's best interests, but this should be no more common in deletion than in any other area." Mabuska 21:58, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
- So if Derry wins the City of Culture award, it is appropriate to discuss the naming dispute? Because that was a major factor in its selection, or why? And forgive me if I misunderstand you, but you seem to suggest there is a "local consensus" to suspend a guideline here. I don't see any, just a couple of editors whipping up what Jon C on another page called " the hysteria over the (London)derry thing". If you want to do a head-count, you can add me to the opposes. Scolaire (talk) 10:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
- FTR, here is what I said at IMOS: When 2013 comes to have a properly written section in the UK City of Culture article, it should of course include the City of Culture 2013 website designation (but without that ridiculous word "stylised"). But edit-warring over the very brief lead of the article as it now stands is poor form. Scolaire (talk) 10:49, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
- What else does WP:LDERRY say? "The naming dispute can be discussed in the articles when appropriate." which heavily implies it can be judged on an article per article basis depending on its merits. I'll also refer to WP:NOTUNANIMITY and WP:ROUGH CONSENSUS, the latter of which clearly states: "Per "ignore all rules", a local consensus can suspend a guideline in a particular case where suspension is in the encyclopedia's best interests, but this should be no more common in deletion than in any other area." Mabuska 21:58, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
- "Entity" refers to the name of the entity being talked about, that's why all the examples refer to the actual entity. Derry doesn't call itself Derry~Londonderry, that's what the "Culture Company 2013" call it. The entity in this case is "Culture Company 2013", what's so hard to understand? Mo ainm~Talk 20:36, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
- Mo ainm, as you've now reverted again ("per imos" – groan) I hope to see you here soon. There are four people here that agree that the addition is useful, so I'll be expecting you to explain why you think your own opinion overrides the current (albeit limited) TP consensus. — Jon C. 11:50, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
- The proper name for the UK CoC 2012 is Derry~Londonderry, as evidenced by its official website. — Jon C. 08:07, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
- @Jon that's for proper names not stylisations that's why all the examples given are actual proper names. Mo ainm~Talk 17:49, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
- My 2c is that the addition here is beneficial and in keeping with the MOS. --RA (talk) 14:09, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
- Indeed, MoS is a guideline. The MoS can be ignored if we are adding something of benefit or a consensus forms for something that should ignore it as an exception. Mabuska 12:23, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
I only linked to the naming dispute because I thought it might be a useful one to follow. "(as Derry~Londonderry)" without a wikilink is fine with me too. — Jon C. 10:53, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Mabuksa, rather than quoting Misplaced Pages:Deletion guidelines for administrators which isn't relevant, or Misplaced Pages:What is consensus? which is an essay, you might be better off quoting Misplaced Pages:Consensus which is policy, and it reads "Consensus among a limited group of editors, at one place and time, cannot override community consensus on a wider scale. For instance, unless they can convince the broader community that such action is right, participants in a WikiProject cannot decide that some generally accepted policy or guideline does not apply to articles within its scope". Mo ainm~Talk 11:17, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
- Actually other guidelines link to those article sub-sections Mo ainm so they apply to more than just deletion for admins
, but if that is how you want to dodge around them then ok.it would appear. - In response to Scolaire, the four of us who agree with Jon's proposed edit (including him) you can agree come from quite contrasting political thoughts, which makes it something quite unique on Misplaced Pages that they (in its entirety or not) see it as beneficial to this article. Though i would agree that a wider consensus would be required, and as with all Troubles related articles, outside input should always be sought anyways.
- Any edit-warring is between Jon and Mo ainm. Mabuska 12:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
- Concur with Scolaire's comments on usage of the word "stylised". Mabuska 12:52, 24 August 2012 (UTC)