Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 10:36, 24 September 2012

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CSD

I think your third opinion was fine, but what is the alternative to reverting a bad nomination if the tag is incorrect? The first tag clearly was incorrect as a rationale was provided on the file, contrary to what the template said. Toa Nidhiki05 01:47, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Normally no action is needed, as there are perfectly valid fair use rationale tags. Once the tags expired they would get deleted by administrators. Another likely scenario could be that another editor could delete the tags. You may even ask a user in good standing to review deletion rationale and act accordingly. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 01:58, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Alright, lesson learned. Sounds reasonable to me. :) Toa Nidhiki05 02:00, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

P.S.: sorry for talkback, I only noticed your instruction after dropping it. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 02:01, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

The tagging one or the talkback one? Toa Nidhiki05 02:04, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Talkback. I didn't tag anything, did I? I live in UTC-1 zone, so it is 4 AM here and I'm pretty slow on getting visual clues right now. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 02:06, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

No, talkback notices are fine. I'm referring to mass MfD tags or the like. :) Toa Nidhiki05 02:07, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

I mean that your banner says you are watching user talk pages, so my talkback wasn't necessary. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 02:14, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for closing at DR

Been a little busy and went to close that last filing today and saw you had already done so. Thanks for all your hard work at DR/N.--Amadscientist (talk) 01:48, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Articles for creation/Vu Ky

Hello,

Thank you for reviewing my article. Please pardon my ignorance, I have read the notability requirement but I would like some guidance as to what I need to provide to get the article accepted. The late author Vu Ky was a very well-known academics and dissident in Vietnam. Documents of his achievements had been lost or are not accessible after the Communist take-over of Vietnam. I have copy of interviews by French and Belgium magazines which are not on-line. His 2003 Nobel nomination will not be made public for 50 years after the nomination according to the Nobel rules.

Thank you for your time and consideration, vietnamnostalgia Vietnamnostalgia (talk) 04:59, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Your submission should demonstrate that multiple reliable sources independent of topic (not he himself, not co-workers, not people dedicated to reviewing Vietnamese writers, etc.) consider him worth mention. Instead you reference introductions to published books and Yale trivia. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 09:13, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Re:Save22

Added references to two Straits Times(Singapore) articles and one video from Channel 8 news(Singapore chinese language) supporting the other references. Gmon32 (talk) 14:25, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Minor references don't show the global notability. Specifically the references to local newspaper's blog. Probably this thing is notable somewhere in Singapore, but definitely not outside. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 14:36, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

The references are not from a blog of a local newspaper, but multiple scanned articles of the the printed edition of The Straits Times. The Straits Times is the paper of record in South East Asia, widely read across the region, similar to the New York Times in the U.S. I've also included one more reference from the Jakarta Globe, as well as a video from DEMO, a U.S. tech conference. When did the criteria for notability become global? 90%+ of the content on wikipedia achieved notability in one country or one region only. Save22 has multiple printed language, TV, Radio, references across South East Asia. Gmon32 (talk) 10:29, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Oren Wilkes

Hi,

You closed my ticket.... here is the discussion page : Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Oren wilkes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.86.75.85 (talk) 14:32, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

It took me for a while to guess the "ticket" you refer. Actually the AfD pages are not the discussions that are supposed to be conducted – the dispute is a discussion on article's talk page, not elsewhere. If you need an opinion on the tags though, I can provide one: they should remain, each of them is true, and "no consensus" closure doesn't mean that this article satisfies the inclusion criteria; in fact it only means that with current sources chances are it will be deleted within a month. Furthermore, the tags are needed to engage other editors in searching better sources for the article, so it is in your best interest to keep these tags and secure there presence unless sourcing of the article can stand at least the mild critics. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 14:47, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Subjectivity on OpenBSD

Why I removed "relatively low usage of OpenBSD":

1. According to bsdcertification it's a 2nd place and almost 1/3 of user-base.
2. "relatively low usage of OpenBSD" is prejudice and may dis-attract people.
3. It is pure subjectivity to say "low" or "high" while having numbers in hand.

People have numbers and can decide themselves.

Misplaced Pages is meant to be objective, emotions free etc. What is your concern to put back subjective statement? Talk to me

My concern is that the number you reference is misleading: ⅓ of BSD users (or 2nd place among BSDs) is not noticeable in the whole picture of OS market. Eg. it resolves to less then 0.01% in Wikimedia stats. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 18:53, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. "OpenBSD component projects" section is not a place to tell about market share (it adds unnecessary prejudice, subjectivity and dis-attraction to almost technically grounded section). In addition, telling "relatively low" contradicts "History and popularity" section where article says "... how widely OpenBSD is used is hard to ascertain". It is either "relatively low" or "hard to ascertain". Not both of them. Talk to me —Preceding undated comment added 19:08, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but both points can't stand any critique:

1. There is no prejudice in stating the well known fact. Even if there was, Misplaced Pages is not a mean of promotion.
2. These statements don't contradict each other: OpenBSD is used "relatively low", though it is "hard to ascertain" the particular share. Partly because there is no reliable way to measure OS usage share, and partially because "relatively" is a huge exaggeration in favor of OpenBSD, which isn't noticeable in a big picture.

I also use and love this OS, but we should maintain neutral point of view. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 19:35, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Ok. I'm giving up. However, to illustrate my point, compare these two: "Joe used to have a relatively small penis" and "the size of Joe's penis is hard to ascertain". Which one is neutral point of view?

If Joe's penis is smaller then observational error, then definitely both. Seriously, the main problem with measuring OpenBSD's usage is that it is too low to get reported by sources. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 20:25, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

You think like mathematician. But Joe isn't a mathematical model. He will not like you anti-promoting his stick. Being mathematically/statistically correct, doesn't mean to be psychologically neutral. You publicly name Joe's stick "small", people start to perceive it as small making Joe unhappy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leurk2 (talk • contribs) 20:55, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

I think you'd better raise this point at Talk:OpenBSD. I'm pretty sure it is all correct to make both statement, and they can be easily sourced both to primary sources (site, mailing list and even Theo himself mentioned these) and to secondary (nearly everyone writing about OpenBSD points out that BSDs are not all that popular). Still, I may end up being in minority, and I am definitely not going to push this point forward if it is rejected even by borderline majority of editors.

That said, I perceive the small usage share of OpenBSD as its major benefit: try to read Ubuntu forums and I bet you'd second me. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 21:06, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

This is not necessarily true, to perceive "the small usage share of OpenBSD as its major benefit", for other people (which, in fact, aren't you). Try to think as a researching guy looking for Unix-like platform with strong community. What will be your first impression after reading that questionable sentence? "Small team"... "Relatively small usage"... Will that guy like such an anti-promotion? I doubt it. That guy will be dis-attracted by a learning curve being too high. Omitting unnecessary subjectivity neither attracts or dis-attracts, but will leave a chance for that guy to decide himself.

Well... maybe I should try with Talk:OpenBSD. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leurk2 (talk • contribs) 21:31, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

third party citations

Hello Dimitrij Czarkoff, I added some third party citations to my article on "Edward Marshall" and a section Edward Marshall (Canadian Author), with the same content to help with disambiguation from other Edward Marshall's in wikipedia. Edward Marshall is a psychotherapist who has recently gained notoriety, in international conferences in Toronto and Vienna. He recently published a textbook "Logotherapy Revisited", and has offered interviews in Canadian media. I added the citations I could find online for verification and a public domain picture in flickr. I hope this would help to publish the article. Thank you,

Dirmiz — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dirmiz (talk • contribs) 21:43, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

IMO these sources didn't change anything. I would let the other project participants decide though. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 21:52, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Johnson Bademosi

He made his professional debut. That's what editors tell me when they review a page or article I should say. Why is this not accepted? I need a explanation. 24.227.93.118 (talk) 23:58, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

What is he notable for? For college football? For signing a sheet of paper? He doesn't even play yet! — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 00:06, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

ARE you serious!!? First of all, How are you going to me that to wait until he plays in the professional level. Then change tunes on me. This ain't music chairs. What's up with the flip flop. 24.227.93.118 (talk) 00:11, 17 September 2012 (UTC) One editor tells me to wait until he plays a game professionally on one of the submitted articles. Then I got you telling me another thing. 24.227.93.118 (talk) 00:11, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Actually everybody is telling you that the subject should play professionally to be a candidate for encyclopedic coverage. The problem is that he doesn't – he just signed a contract, which is nothing on its own. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 00:19, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Who's everybody?! 24.227.93.118 (talk) 00:23, 17 September 2012 (UTC) First of all, He played professionally now 2 games with the Browns including today. What Media coverage?!! 24.227.93.118 (talk) 00:23, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure you understand with the.... you are talking. 24.227.93.118 (talk) 00:26, 17 September 2012 (UTC) You are telling a whole different prescriptive then what other editors tell me. 24.227.93.118 (talk) 00:26, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Whom are you talking to? I didn't mention media coverage yet, but if he played, then this fact must be mentioned in submission. You propose the article, and it is your task to convince everybody that this article is worth inclusion. The different perspectives come from the fact that there must be a good reason an individual makes to encyclopedia. Please, make yourself familiar with Misplaced Pages:Notability (sports) before engaging in further discussions. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 00:28, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

No, I put his statistics in his infobox. Why would I lie about that.24.227.93.118 (talk) 00:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC) You can easily click on his NFL.com or ESPN profile to see he played a game. 24.227.93.118 (talk) 00:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC) I don't see what's the problem. 24.227.93.118 (talk) 00:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Nevermind, a editor already created the same article I submitted. This was a waste of an article I did. 24.227.93.118 (talk) 00:37, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Cellular Sales

Hi Dmitrij, Thanks for taking the time to review my page. I've reviewed the links that you sent regarding the subject's notability and, with a slight exception, I'm unsure where exactly I fail. According to the Golden rule, a subject is considered notable if it has;

• Received significant coverage: And The subject has.

• Been covered by reliable sources: Among the references, I included the Inc. Magazine and Knox. News which fit the requirements.
• Independent sources: I realize that I added a few press release wires. Those were largely redundant, but I felt they were relevant. Upon a reread,I have however removed them.

I also read the link to the article you sent. It makes for an interesting--although less authoritative--read. Regardless I still fail to see where my article fails. The article clearly states that "Evidence of attention by international or national, or at least regional, media is a strong indication of notability. On the other hand, attention solely from local media, or media of limited interest and circulation, is not an indication of notability; at least one regional, national, or international source is necessary." Being sourced by the Inc. 5000 as the 60th fastest growing retail company in the country, with over 4000 employers working and close to 500 stores spread across every contiguous state would surely qualify.

Still, these are just my opinions. I recognize the fact that you're a lot more qualified than I am, and may be privy to details I've missed. I also know that, with so many articles to edit and wade through, your day must be a very busy one. But I would really appreciate it if you could give me a more direct explanation when you have the time of how my submission is wrong and the ways I can improve it.

Kind Regards Carlang (talk) 04:59, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi. Please keep in mind that the whole concept notability is not about counting sources, but about delegation of deciding on inclusion to reliable sources. That said, problems with your references (each number corresponds to the footnote number as of this revision):

1. Profile page; doesn't say anything on subject's notability unless all other profiles make the respective companies notable.
2. Profile page; doesn't say anything on subject's notability unless all other profiles make the respective companies notable.
3. Subject's own press release, fails WP:SPS.
4. Subject's own press release, fails WP:SPS.
5. Membership in top 5000 list; doesn't say anything on subject's notability unless 4999 other list members are also made notable.
6. Membership in top 5000 list; doesn't say anything on subject's notability unless 4999 other list members are also made notable.
7. Subject's own press release, fails WP:SPS.
8. Local news coverage; apart from the source's scale it doesn't demonstrate notability, just proves this company's existence.
9. Blog, fails WP:SPS.
10. Local news coverage; apart from the source's scale it doesn't demonstrate notability, just proves this company's existence.

Hope the problems are clearer now. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 09:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

HI Dmitri. I already deleted the press releases in my references before your reply so those aren't an issue. I'll change the blog link however.

Regarding your comment--Doesn't say anything on subject's notability unless 4999 other list members are also made notable--

I might be wrong, but I think you only looked at the top overview and missed out on checking the trophy case (which is also) on the Inc page. You'd notice that the company was ranked the 60th fastest growing company in the retail industry. And no, all the other 4999 do NOT have similar awards. Only companies within the first 100 are ranked. I believe that establishes the company's notability.

As regards the other references, not all of them were added to demonstrate notability. They were added to support the information within. Adding a link verifying that Bill Gates is married doesn't make him notable. But its necessary. Carlang (talk) 15:27, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

60th means that there are at least 59 that did it better that year, not to mention all the other years. That said, this fact might demonstrate that this company is successful, but being successful doesn't necessarily mean being notable. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 23:43, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

HI Dimitri, The fact that they're the 60th fastest growing company in the country is just one of their achievements. They're also the largest Verizon wireless retailer in the country with stores in at least 45 states. I'm really confused. How is that not notable? That's like suggesting that Barnes and Noble, despite its high commercial success, is just a successful book store but not notable. As regarding their performance in other years, if you check the page you'll see that the company has been consistently listed in the INC 5000 for the last FIVE years--including this one.

Regards

Carlang (talk) 00:18, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I still don't see your point. What are they notable for? Who would notice if they disappear overnight? — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 00:43, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

You're actually making my point. Verizon Wireless is the largest wireless communications services provider in the United States with over a 100 million subscribers, and cellular sales is their LARGEST retailer. Cellular Sales has over 450 stores servicing millions of owners across the store.

If Cellular sales were to disappear and the hundred of stores across the country folded up overnight--people would notice.

Carlang (talk) 06:42, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

OK, to make it more clear: is there any difference between Cellular sales and the rest of retailers? If the difference boils down to boilerplates and names, this company has no place on Misplaced Pages. If not, your submission must make it perfectly clear. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 06:54, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Okay. Fair enough. Thanks for all the support. Carlang (talk) 07:05, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Regarding my article Harbinger Knowledge Products

Hello Czarkoff, Thanks for reviewing my article. However, I did not get a clear reason why you felt the article /company lacked notability. The company has been around for more than 20 years, owns IP, has ranked in Deloitte's Fast 500 Asia Pacific twice, was ranked in the Global 100 by Red Herring in 2009 and has been covered by NASSCOM in its list of Innovators. I have included links to coverage in national level newspapers and online coverage, which are independent of the subject. Will appreciate if you can review it again. Thx RM (talk) 05:26, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Existing for 20 years, as well as being included in any list whatever number of times, doesn't help with establishing notability.

When evaluating the notability of organizations or products, please consider whether they have had any significant or demonstrable effects on culture, society, entertainment, athletics, economies, history, literature, science, or education.

— Misplaced Pages:Notability (organizations and companies)

— Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 09:39, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Thx Dmitrij. I have added references which cite the company's impact in the field of eLearning, and names some of the customers. Is this sufficient? RM (talk) 13:34, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

BTW: There is also Harbinger Systems which was (in my eyes) falsely accepted. mabdul 13:39, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion these new references didn't add much – a BusinessWeek profile, a piece of industry-specific press and a couple of articles from borderline sources. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 21:35, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Physical Identity and Access Management

Hi,

My articel on 'Physical Identity and Access Management' was rejected with the reason 'subject appears to be non-notable'. I believe that I have provided reasonable references of industry reports as well as the websites talking about this term. I'd really appreciate if you could help me by telling me the speicific changes which i need to make.

Thanks PIAM Security (talk) 08:27, 17 September 2012 (UTC)PIAM_Security

The only source looking reliable is Gartner. You need at least another one. And them you'll need to reference the claims likely to be challenged (nearly every sentence in the article). And then you'll need to prove that WP:NEO doesn't apply. There's a long road ahead. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 09:45, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi Dmitrij, Thanks for your feedback. Apart from the wikipedia rules and guidelines, I was following an already existing article 'PSIM' on wikipedia which is also a terminology used in the world of physical security just like 'PIAM'. Do you think PSIM article on wikipedia is in accordance with the wikipedia rules and regulations? Apart from Gartner report there is a white paper which I have referred to and few other blogs and websites listed in the external links. Don't you think the information mentioned in all these links justifies the notability of the term PIAM?

Thanks PIAM Security (talk) 11:42, 17 September 2012 (UTC)PIAM_Security

The physical security information management article is of very low, inappropriate quality. It is a very bad reference. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 11:49, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Higitals for Misplaced Pages and Wikitionary

Greetings,

I am resubmitting "Higitals" for Misplaced Pages. "Higitals" is not only a dictionary definition since the article goes into term's history. If this were a dictionary article, I wouldn't have bothered getting into the history of the term itself. But since it is not a dictionary article, I have included the term's history in the article. "Higitals" is no more of a dictionary term than Generation X. I am happy to make changes so it seems less of a dictionary deffinition. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Higitals (talk • contribs) 15:22, 17 September 2012‎ (UTC)

Wiktionary covers etymology, and your submission doesn't go beyond that. On contrary, Generation X explains the concept, while your submission doesn't and can't in the lack of a matter to explain. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 18:21, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

D&H Distributing submission review question

Hello there! Thanks for reviewing my submission on D&H Distributing. I have questions as to how to revise it to your satisfaction. Forgive me, this is the first time I'm making a submission so I'm not sure of the process. Your comment was that I needed citations to validate the information in the submission. However, I included many links to independent articles for just about all of the references made. Did I not format them correctly? Are the links not apparent on your end? Please help as I'm somewhat lacking in figuring out how to do this. Thank you Suzcommun (talk) 19:36, 17 September 2012 (UTC) SuzComm a.k.a. Sue

Hello! I see some problems with footnotes (numbers correspond to the footnotes' numbers as of this revision):

1. Membership in the TOP N list doesn't indicate notability of company.
2. Membership in the TOP N list doesn't indicate notability of company.
3. Interview, primary source.
4. Again TOP N list, but this time not even about this company, but about its staff.
5. Interview, primary source.
6. This source is a marketing wire, it simply rewords press releases. Also fails "Audience" criterion of WP:NCORP.
7. Composed entirely of quotes, primary source. Reliability also questionable.
8. This source seems to provide paid articles as a part of advertising services. Also fails "Audience" criterion of WP:NCORP.
9. Reprinted press release. Also fails "Audience" criterion of WP:NCORP.

So, I see no single source that would be useful for establishing notability of this company. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 23:40, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

"Sorry for interjection..."

Re: "Sorry for interjection", I am of the opinion that we don't interject enough at DRN. There is a tendency to think that if another volunteer has responded, commenting is somehow stepping on his toes. I think that commenting on a dispute another volunteer is working on is working as a team. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:14, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I generally try to avoid jumping into cases where I can see volunteer trying to lead parties through step-by-step process. In this case I thought there is an opportunity to settle thing down without saying "you are wrong" to some of the parties, so I wanted to try it.

I actually prefer to act as a single volunteer in the thread. That said, I don't really care volunteers' (including mine) comfort on DRN, as all of us came here to waste our time, albeit helping others. The most important aspect of DRN is getting disputes resolved, so if one's interjection helps to achieve this goal, it is surely a desired interjection, regardless of whether it voids all of my prior effort or not. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 17:26, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Premature closure of dispute resolution?

Ruut Veenhoven

(I am sorry if I talk to you on the wrong page, but I can't find 'my talk page'.) I have written a page on professor Ruut Veenhoven, but your comment says he does not appear to be an important academic. I checked on the relevant page in Misplaced Pages what the requirements are. Veenhoven meets without further proof the points 5, 6 and 8 (and alle the other point too, but I did not include the references for those): point 5 he is professor at the highest level at the Univeristy of Rotterdam (Erasmus), point 6: he holds an academic chair with a name (Piet Thoenes Chair at the University of Utrecht),he is editor of an academic journal (Journal of happiness) and president of the Research Committee ‘Social Indicators Research’ of the International Sociological Association. Up to now I have only inserted references in English. Does it help if I insert Dutch references? I wouldn't think so, since readers (and editors) do not read Dutch. Please let me know, and thank you for your time. Willy Hemelrijk Willy Hemelrijk (talk) 06:42, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't see reliable sources supporting these claims in your submission. In fact I see no single non-primary source, and primary sources can't be used for the purpose of establishing notability. If reliable secondary sources providing information on any single criterion of Misplaced Pages:Notability (academics) § Criteria exist, they must be explicitly cited in submission. Otherwise this academic can't be considered notable enough to be worth encyclopedic coverage. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 08:01, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Question Regarding Notability

Hello Czarkoff,

You reviewed Misplaced Pages talk:Articles for creation/MobileBits and cited lack of notability. Could you please clarify more since I believe everything is cited and they are a sizeable public company.

Thanks for your help and input!

sincerely, b — Preceding unsigned comment added by Behrlich (talk • contribs) 20:39, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Notability should be established with non-trivial coverage in reliable sources. Your sources provide exactly trivial coverage – profiles and routine acquisition announcements. Demonstrating notability means showing that this company is different from the generic company of a kind (mobile ISV in this case), and neither your sources, nor even the article itself demonstrate that. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 21:00, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks

Many thanks for your comments, I realise DRN is often a thankless task. Regards, Wee Curry Monster talk 22:40, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

2012 Kremlin Cup

I wanted to notify you that I have accepted this AfC submission that you recently declined. As usual with tennis tournaments, there is insufficient content because the tournament hasn't occurred yet and it is likely that there is going to be content afterwards. Cheers! SwisterTwister talk 04:54, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages talk:Articles for creation/Hackney Flashers

Was wondering why you tagged an AfC-draft with article maintenance templates... Thanks, Shearonink (talk) 20:34, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

These templates allow me to save quite a lot of typing effort, and I see no good reason to avoid using them. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 20:49, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, plowing through AfCs can be a lot of work, the backlog has gotten so HUGE! I can easily see why using maintenance templates would be a labor-saving device for any of us Reviewers. I dunno though... using them seems maybe a little bite-y to newcomers, that's all. Cheers, Shearonink (talk) 21:08, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Don't think so. These templates are worded quite friendly and supportive, imply that the issues can be solved and welcome editing. I actually wanted to propose embedding of a multiple issues template into AfC template in order to specify a set of common problems instead of current quite limited texts. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 21:29, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I think the article-Notices could look kind of bite-y to a new editor..."multiple issues" and exclamation mark and orange and all that... It's funny, the Warnings for Vandalism/etc have gotten quite friendly in their first-level versions...maybe there could be multiple-issue AfC notices with something of a similar tone. What can happen is that AfC editors will fix the one issue they think is wrong and then get all bent-out-of-shape when it is rejected for something else. Besides, with the backlog being over 1100 Pending Submissions, anything to make the task go smoother, to get new Reviewers in the mix and to help keep new editors around Misplaced Pages who are trying their best would be a great thing in my book. I wonder how hard it would be to add a multiple-issue notice with the only difference being the first line going "This AfC submission" instead of "This article"... Shearonink (talk) 21:40, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

It requires minor changes to {{Multiple issues}} (I'll try to draft a sandbox version for this tomorrow, if I find time for this). Still I would prefer using AfC submission template as a shell for maintenance templates in AfC submissions anyway, as that would make the whole thing more integrated. I just wanted to draft another (Twinkle-based) AfC review tool with support for these together with proposal. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 22:08, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

 Done. I changed Template:AFC submission/declined, so that "{{AFC submission|D|{{refimprove|submission}}{{notability|company|submission}}{{citation style|submission}}{{linkrot|submission}}}}" produces:

Submission declined. This submission needs additional citations for verification. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources in this submission. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. Find sources: "Czarkoff" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR (Learn how and when to remove this message) The topic of this article may not meet Misplaced Pages's notability guidelines for companies and organizations. Please help to demonstrate the notability of the topic by citing reliable secondary sources that are independent of the topic and provide significant coverage of it beyond a mere trivial mention. If notability cannot be shown, the article is likely to be merged, redirected, or deleted. Find sources: "Czarkoff" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR (Learn how and when to remove this message) This submission has an unclear citation style. The references used may be made clearer with a different or consistent style of citation and footnoting. (Learn how and when to remove this message) This submission uses bare URLs, which are uninformative and vulnerable to link rot. Please consider converting them to full citations to ensure the article remains verifiable and maintains a consistent citation style. Several templates and tools are available to assist in formatting, such as reFill (documentation) and Citation bot (documentation). (Learn how and when to remove this message) If you would like to continue working on the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window. If you have not resolved the issues listed above, your draft will be declined again and potentially deleted. If you need extra help, please ask us a question at the AfC Help Desk or get live help from experienced editors. Please do not remove reviewer comments or this notice until the submission is accepted. Where to get help If you need help editing or submitting your draft, please ask us a question at the AfC Help Desk or get live help from experienced editors. These venues are only for help with editing and the submission process, not to get reviews. If you need feedback on your draft, or if the review is taking a lot of time, you can try asking for help on the talk page of a relevant WikiProject. Some WikiProjects are more active than others so a speedy reply is not guaranteed. How to improve a draft Misplaced Pages:Contributing to Misplaced Pages – a basic overview on how to edit Misplaced Pages. Help:Wikitext – how to use the markup Help:Referencing for beginners – how to include references Misplaced Pages:Article development – how to develop your article Misplaced Pages:Writing better articles – how to improve your article Misplaced Pages:Verifiability – make sure your article includes reliable third-party sources You can also browse Misplaced Pages:Featured articles and Misplaced Pages:Good articles to find examples of Misplaced Pages's best writing on topics similar to your proposed article. Improving your odds of a speedy review To improve your odds of a faster review, tag your draft with relevant WikiProject tags using the button below. This will let reviewers know a new draft has been submitted in their area of interest. For instance, if you wrote about a female astronomer, you would want to add the Biography, Astronomy, and Women scientists tags. Add tags to your draft Editor resources Easy tools: Citation bot (help) | Advanced: Fix bare URLs This draft has not been edited in over six months and qualifies to be deleted per CSD G13. The reviewer(s) who declined this submission will be listed in the page history. Last edited by Tijfo098 12 years ago. Resubmit Please note that if the issues are not fixed, the draft will be declined again.

Some changes are needed for some of the maintenance templates themselves (see the rendering of {{notability}} above, it says "article"), but overall this seems to work. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 09:48, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, that is looking pretty good. (And I have no idea how to change 'article' to 'submission') Is it in the Reviewer's Menu yet? (don't know what it's really called, but you know....the Menu that pops up when one is Reviewing/Accepting/Declining an AfC Submission...) Cheers, Shearonink (talk) 13:38, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

No, and I currently have no time for this. (Though you can simply choose "Custom message" and place tags you think are appropriate.) — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 14:09, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Microsoft Security Essentials is now a featured article

	We did it!
	Microsoft Security Essentials is now a featured article. Thanks for your assistance and support in making it possible. Codename Lisa (talk) 22:39, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Simon Harsent

Hi there, I am unclear as t wy the article was declined. Could you give me some advice on what I need to do to get it up to scratch?

Many thanks

Barney

Hello! Your submission relies too much on unreliable sources. The only source I'd consider reliable is Timeout article, which qualifies as trivial coverage and thus doesn't make your submission compliant with WP:BIO. Also consider reading WP:BLP – we have quite strict standard of sourcing on Misplaced Pages, so blogs and linkedin entries make the submission a no go. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 12:15, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Jürgen Ohlsen

Thank you for taking the time to review my article. However, I am very perplexed. With the addition of a few items and Internet Movie and Filmportal.de (which I am working to replace with better sources) are the sources are IDENTICAL to the German and Russian Misplaced Pages versions of this article. Those articles were acceptable. So, why isn’t mine and would it have been accepted had I only translated the German article (I must rely on Google translator for Russian)? This doesn't make sense that these sources are acceptable there but not here! J R Gainey — Preceding unsigned comment added by J R Gainey (talk • contribs) 12:42, 21 September 2012‎ (UTC)

On English Misplaced Pages self-published sources (including IMDb, Filmportal.de and Misplaced Pages articles) are considered inappropriate. Once you replace them with reliable sources, the article will become a solid candidate for inclusion. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 13:11, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I am also perplexed that you state "submission is unsourced or contains only unreliable sources" when the article includes cites from the New York Times and The Ministry of Illusion: Nazi Cinema and Its Afterlife from Harvard University Press. These source are reliable and the article clearly meets the guidelines. Please explain further. Thank you Span (talk) 16:49, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for misleading comment, the reviewer tool doesn't show the messages it outputs, and the option I used was labeled as problems with WP:V. The actual concern is that described in my previous message. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 20:14, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

The books cited would seem to be verifiable and solidly reliable. Span (talk) 20:32, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Sure. The problematic sources (as of now) are Filmportal.de, which seems to be wiki-like (any user may contribute) and two personal web sites – www.cyranos.ch and mr3er.de/dr-lo/. Otherwise the submission is OK to me. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 21:01, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

However, there are enough strong, verifiable sources to pass it as a new article. Span (talk) 21:08, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

The article now meets the criteria for 'new article' - including strong sources. Span (talk) 11:07, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

If you have no further comment I will create a new article with this text and have done. Thank you Span (talk) 19:14, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. Span (talk) 21:53, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Talk: CBS Records redux

Moxy is acting up again in the Talk:CBS Records DAB page. Steelbeard1 (talk) 18:43, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

There is an ongoing RfC which will bring the matter to some ending. If Moxy is changing DAB to article out-of-process, you may want to request conduct dispute resolution (I'm not sure where you should request it currently). — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 20:25, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

The RfC is up at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Economy, trade, and companies but I do not yet see outsiders adding their input. Steelbeard1 (talk) 20:57, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I would propose to add Media, the arts, and architecture (append "|media" to the rfc tag), but you should keep in mind that bot is not very fast in notifying editors. Wait, may be more people will arrive. If no, you may propose a clean RfC on a subpage with an agreement that no involved party would comment there. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 21:12, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Done. Steelbeard1 (talk) 21:16, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

New At This...Sorry for delay in getting back to you....

Hi Czarkoff,

Am a bit new at this (have congestive heart failure) and not at the pc every day. Am trying to write this article regarding my old boss Rick London and I realize I don't have the skills to get it right.....

Also have some dyslexia (vertical) which makes all the Wiki symbols etc NOT-user friendly for me (not your fault or Wiki of course) but just mentioning it as it may take me a bit longer to get this right...

I'll keep trying. It's a good human interest story (I think) so please let me know how I should approach this.

I've read the "tutorial pages" (or tried to) and am not having much luck comprehending them (again not your fault or Wiki's but my own brain/eye disorder).

Thanks

Misplaced Pages talk:Articles for creation/Rick London And The Tin Shed

Ltcartoons (talk) 19:16, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but I see no indication of notability. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 20:07, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Dear Czarkoff,

I see your point. There is more to the story; which is easily verifiable.

During the beginning of the Arab Spring, The Jerusalem Post chose his two color cartoons that ran a month in their Internet paper and a third one in their hard copy paper (regarding Egypt and Libya). I can send you the JPost editor's email. That's never happened; as they've always had in-house cartoonists so the cartoons (in Jposts mind) were better than what they had. That's world notoriety.

In addition, Google has shown him notoriety. Simply type in "offbeat cartoons" and you will see they rank him #1; not only that but he "owns" most of their 1st-3rd search pages. It has been #1 ranked since Jan 2005 (rare for a cartoon am told).

Please let me know if that is "notable" and if so I will add it to the story with appropriate checkable references.

Thanks

20:18, 21 September 2012 (UTC)~

All of this should be in the article, supported with reliable sources. Until you bring submission is up to the minimal Misplaced Pages standards (see WP:V, WP:BIO and WP:BLP for starting points), it won't be included. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 20:22, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Czarkoff...I see your point. I have color images of the cartoons that were chosen by the Jerusalem Post for the beginning of the Arab Spring. Should those be uploaded too? And if so, is there a page/tutorial on how to do that?

Thanks

Ltcartoons (talk) 22:44, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

No, you shouldn't upload his cartoons. Sources of information above are needed in the submission. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 22:51, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Ok good deal. Am worn out. This is work. LOL. I'll get back to it after the weekend. Appreciate your time much Cdzarkoff

Ltcartoons (talk) 22:55, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Franklin White

Hi,

Thanks for reviewing my submission. It was rejected and I am not sure why.

The artist was a leading teacher at the Slade School of Art for forty years. The Slade School of Art being one of the finest school of arts in the world. He taught at a time when Andy Warhol was studying.

His artwork is shown at the V&A and other museums. http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O550588/the-summer-class-at-shoreham-drawing-white-franklin/ He was a favourite artist of the Queen Mother.

He founded the Samuel Palmer School of Art.

He was not a major exhibitor and much of his artwork was kept private and in private collections.

I have looked at wikipedia and there are many,many entries of people who really have no merit of being remotely notable.

I have been researching the artist and to me he is more worthy of inclusion than many pages I have viewed.

Thanks

Darryl — Preceding unsigned comment added by Worldcollectorsnet (talk • contribs) 22:15, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately individual perception of subject's notability isn't a ground for inclusion on Misplaced Pages. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 22:21, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I agree I am a nobody and my view of notability may not be as important as yours. Franklin White taught Andy Warhol, his art is in museums around the world. The Queen Mother owned several pieces of his work. He was collected by Noel Coward. He founded the Samuel Palmer School of Art. He is notable enough to be on these sites http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/artists/franklin-white http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O550588/the-summer-class-at-shoreham-drawing-white-franklin/ I have provided a list of museums and art galleries around the world that have his work.

As mentioned he was not a prolific exhibitor and much of his work has not appeared publicly.

If that is not enough then maybe he is not worthy of inclusion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Worldcollectorsnet (talk • contribs) 22:39, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I have no viewpoint on his notability; though if I had one, I wouldn't rely on it, as it is as unimportant as anyone's else. You should refer to WP:ARTIST for list of inclusion criteria. Note, that there should be a reliable source stating any of that. Otherwise, multiple reliable sources independent of the subject should cover him in non-trivial manner. Demonstrating that any of these criteria are met would suffice for passing notability check. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 22:51, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation

Hello!

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Misplaced Pages talk:Articles for creation/9front.
• To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the help desk, via real time chat with helpers, or on the reviewer's talk page

Thank you for your contributions to Misplaced Pages! AFisch99 (talk) 18:30, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

So sorry! I am only a new reviewer, but one of the more experienced ones said that you needed some better sources. Please consider finding better sources and adding them so this article can make it! :)

Are you referring to this discussion? I though having three independent reliable sources is enough to pass WP:GNG, isn't it? — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 20:27, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

That is correct; I am. I believe User:Ritchie333 had said he saw one good source. AFisch99 (talk) 20:35, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Ritchie333 names SD Times as the only good source. While I can understand concerns about OSNews' rather short news item (though OSNews is generally considered reliable on Misplaced Pages, and in this particular case neither author nor editor of news item is known to be involved with 9front), but what is the problem with Golem.de? German language? — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 20:42, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Now, that I don't know. Looked fine to me...AFisch99 (talk) 22:11, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I've added three more sources and re-submitted the article. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 22:26, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

You are more than welcome to continue making quality contributions to Misplaced Pages. Note that because you are a logged-in user, you can create articles yourself, and don't have to post a request. However, you are more than welcome to continue submitting work to Articles for Creation.

• If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask at the help desk.
• If you would like to help us improve this process, please consider leaving us some feedback.

Thank you for helping improve Misplaced Pages!

Okay, it's an article now :) Thanks for your work on Misplaced Pages! — Preceding unsigned comment added by AFisch99 (talk • contribs) 00:08, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

• Sorry to be late to this discussion, but I felt this was a marginal case - the OSNews article wasn't significant enough, and seeing what a rough ride software and OS articles get at AfD, I suggested that the author finds a few more to help cement notability, which has indeed happened leading to the article passing. --Ritchie333 10:07, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Charles Noke

Hi Dimitrij, Thanks for reviewing my article, http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Charles_Noke. It was declined due to an issue with Related Sources. I have read the articles on Related Sources, Citation and Referencing for Beginners. So was the article declined because the references were all from web sites? I have a published Doulton book at home that contains some but not all of the information in the article so I could reference this? I used this article on Charles Vyse as a template for mine, http://en.wikipedia.org/Charles_Vyse, and I can see that this has web references as well but also a bibliography. Is the bibliography the main reason this article has been published? Also I notice that this article http://en.wikipedia.org/Royal_Doulton only has web references. Is this because they are 'trusted' web references? Thanks Thall69 (talk) 14:41, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

One of the attributes of reliable sources is an editorial oversight, which seems to be lacking on the sites you've linked as references. Citing books is definitely good practice, and you are very welcome to add it (see {{citation}} or {{cite book}} templates for the information about formatting the footnotes when citing books) but you should try to find some mention of the subject in other sources as well. May be he was written about in newspapers? Or may be he was featured in TV and/or radio shows? — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 22:04, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

ANI on IP at Long War Journal

I just started an ANI on the IP editor for repeatedly restoring material that was removed per RfC at Long War Journal. Since you participated in the RfC, this notice is just an FYI. You are not mentioned in the ANI. GregJackP Boomer! 19:03, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Stone Bond Technologies

You recently declined an AFC for this corporation on the very reasonable basis that it fails to assert notability and appears to be about a non notable entity. I see you have just made the same comment at the AfD for the same named article. It looks likely that the article will fail to survive the discussion. Assuming it does, what happens to the AfC article? Fiddle Faddle (talk) 09:26, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Basically nothing. Currently there is no process to delete AFC submissions, and no such process is required, as they are harmless. If this company ever gets notable (guidelines tend to become more and more relaxed over time), the submission would be accepted. — Dmitrij D. Czarkoff (talk•track) 09:36, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Psychotherapies ArbCom

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Psychotherapies and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for Arbitration;
• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration guide.

Thanks,

I'm notifying you because I cited one of your edits. Tijfo098 (talk) 10:36, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

• Undated AfC submissions