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Guitars: Tunings and chords

Regular tunings

I made the images File:Tritone in the chromatic circle.png, File:Augmented chord in the chromatic circle.png, and File:Diminished seventh chord in the chromatic circle.png for use in place of the image of the chromatic circle in the regular tunings section. Hyacinth (talk) 06:06, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Geometry of repetitive, regular guitar-tunings

• A line segment bisecting the chromatic circle specifies an augmented-fourths (tritone) tuning.
• An equilateral triangle circumscribed by the chromatic circle specifies a major-thirds tuning.
• A square circumscribed by the chromatic circle specifies a minor-thirds tuning.

Wow!

You are a beautiful human-being, Hyacinth!

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 06:22, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Would you be interested in a similar picture for all fourths, all fifths, and new standard tunings? Hyacinth (talk) 01:52, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

The tunings you mentioned are not associated with regular polygons, so that they would be messy. Maybe you could find a good-looking spiral for the non-repetitive regular tunings...?

There are regular tunings that are not discussed. It would be interesting to have symmetric-star pictures for the "unison" (a big dot at the C note), half-note (a regular 12-gon), and whole-note (a regular hexagon) tunings. Sethares states that these tunings are less interesting, although it is possible to play e.g. major chords in the whole-note tuning. An article on regular tunings could mention them briefly, and illustrate them. Misplaced Pages has an article calling "unison" tuning ostrich tuning.

Sethares also discusses augmented-fifths and sixths tunings, perhaps because he composes electronic music. All-fifths C-G-D-A-E-B already exceeds the range of guitars (perhaps even with Gary Goodman's Octave4Plus strings ...). I can briefly mention the really weird tunings in a separate section in the regular-tunings spin-off article.

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:36, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Hi Hyacinth! Your drawings look even better on a MacBook Pro! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:53, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Non-repetitive regular guitar-tunings

See File:All fifths tuning in the chromatic circle.png, File:All fourths tuning in the chromatic circle.png, and File:New standard tuning in the chromatic circle.png. Hyacinth (talk) 23:13, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

• All-fourths tuning
• All-fifths tuning
• New standard tuning

Lefty–righty tunings: Ordering the notes

These are very good, once again!

:)

From graphs to directed graphs?

A confession: I scratched my head—waiting for the morning coffee to caffeinate my neural network—to see the same note-sequence in all-fourths and all-fifths tunings.

Then I remembered, duh! The all-fifths and all-fourths tunings are righty-lefty inversions, so that one reverses the order of the sequences. I had planned to write more about righty-lefty tunings, following Sethares, but your diagram illustrates the importance of such inversions.

Perhaps one could replace the edges with arcs/arrowss? Arcs/arrows would make the illustrations self-explanatory.

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 07:54, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

A new spin-off article

The regular-tunings section has grown so that it can be a spin-off article, and has been moved to regular tunings. In the original article, I shortened the guitar tunings#Regular to be in summary style.

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:36, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

A good-article collaboration?

Regular tunings

Who would like to help improve this article to GA status?

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 14:04, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Take Five: All-fifths tuning for orchestral-instruments

Hello. You have a new message at Gilderien's talk page.

--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 19:00, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

A thoughtful and courteous discussion took place at the WikiProject Music Theory. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:48, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Infobox: Not too shabby

Major thirds
For every major-thirds tuning, the consecutive open-notes are separated by four semitones, and so three strings cover the twelve semitones of the octave.
Aliases	All thirds
Interval	Major third
Semitones	4
Example(s)	E-G♯-c-e-g♯-c'-e' D♯-G-b-d♯-g-b'-d'♯
Other instruments	Seven-string guitar
Repetition	After 3 strings
Advantages	Reduced hand-stretching: major and minor chords on 2 consecutive frets
Disadvantages	Reduced range on 6 strings
Left-handed tuning	Minor sixths tuning
Associated musician
Guitarist	Ralph Patt
Regular tunings (semitones)
Trivial (0)
Minor thirds (3)
Major thirds (4)
All fourths (5)
Augmented fourths (6)
New standard (7, 3)
All fifths (7)
Minor sixths (8)
Guitar tunings

For your viewing pleasure. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:54, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Major-thirds tuning: A gallery

The good, ...

• The fingerboard is covered by four-finger segments, reducing finger-stretching.
• Chords may be shifted three strings, just changing the octave.
• Inverting chords is easy.
• Notes and chords may be shifted diagonally.
• Major and minor chords may be played on three consecutive strings on two consecutive frets.
• A progression of three chords in major-thirds tuning.

..., the bad, and the ugly!: The CAGED syndrome

Let us quote from Guitar chords:

• C major chord (sic.)
• A Major Chord (sic.)
• G Major Chord (sic.)
• E Major Chord (sic.)
• D Major Chord (sic.)

Notice that the shapes are different for each of these so-called major chords. In truth, none of these chords are major chords, according to the definitions taught in music for other instruments: No wonder guitarists have difficulty discussing music!

Worse, for each of these chords, there are three other shapes that must be learned, according to the position on the fretboard.

Playing in standard tuning cripples the mind (and often the body) and its teaching should be criminalized.

(after E. W. Dijkstra's remark on COBOL)

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:36, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Ralph Patt, inventor of major-thirds tuning

DYK for Ralph Patt

On 3 September 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ralph Patt, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the music of Ornette Coleman, John Coltrane, and Arnold Schoenberg inspired jazz-guitarist Ralph Patt to invent major-thirds tuning? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Ralph Patt. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:03, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Good-article nomination: Review of Ralph Patt

Ralph Patt

I have begun the GA review. Cheers! Reaper Eternal (talk) 18:00, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi Reaper Eternal!

I noticed that you'd begun, and it brought me great pleasure---following delayed dinner after our daughter was crying and then only able to sleep on me and now has awoken hungry---so my dinner is further delayed!

I agree with your comments. I'm disappointed that I had not caught the syntax snafu in the lede. I shall have to learn about notes and references. Geometry guy and Malleus had tried previously to teach me; I think Malleus's page has had a recent discussion that could serve as a tutorial.

As always, best regards, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:04, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

It's actually not that difficult, and I can do that part if you would like. Basically, you use two reference lists, one with {{Reflist|group="note"}} and the other would remain the standard {{Reflist}}. For what is currently Ref 3, you would write as <ref name="whatever" group="note">...</ref>. For all the other references, you simply would not use the group parameter. Reaper Eternal (talk) 20:51, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Repetitive tuning

Category:Repetitive guitar-tunings

Do not get disillusioned

The work you are doing looks to me to be valid for the encyclopaedia. We simply suffer form the wisdom of crowds not always being true wisdom. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 10:16, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. (TPH may be a crowd of one!)

Hyacinth has a lot of experience on Misplaced Pages, and his cat (if he has one) has forgotten more about music than I'll never know. He's made a lot of contributions to articles and has provided a lot of personal help and kindnesses to me, also.

I think that the issue justly raised by the possible-neologism template is better addressed by a discussion of WP:OR/Synthesis policy. (I had hesitated to write the article because of my own concerns about Synthesis; I wrote the introductory paragraph to help the reader per WP:IAR, even though there are no known references sufficiently abstract to cite for that paragraph. Well, now the paragraph is removed, and the world continues....)

Thanks for the kind note and 'attaboy!

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:29, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Repetitive tuning

On 21 September 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Repetitive tuning, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that major-thirds guitar-tuning is a repetitive tuning in which chords are raised an octave by shifting all notes by three strings on the same frets (illustrated)? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Repetitive tuning. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Guitar chord

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	For your efforts to date in improving Guitar chords. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:11, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Dr. Blofeld!

This means a lot coming from an expert on guitar chords! :)

Did you know that Adrian Belew is from Covington, Kentucky?

Best regards, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:48, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Age template

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

My RfA

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"She will outstrip all praise, And make it halt behind her."

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:06, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Horticulture: Nearing harvest

Just butting in to say I've noticed (and been really pleased by) the changes in you, as well. So have others. How's the "fruit" doing? Pesky (talk) 08:45, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Well. The fruit is ripe for the picking, but as a Rastafarian I must wait for it to fall from the tree. ;D Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:40, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Tim Minchin

Heh! Well, judging from personal experience in the issues, don't hold your breath! Meanwhile, this link is one you should keep. It may stop insanity. (Adding: besides which, the guy is an awesomely talented musician.) Pesky (talk) 10:04, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

I can't quite recall how I ended up here, but thanks, Pesky for that introduction to Tim Minchin. I'd never heard of him. Bielle (talk) 01:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Wikibreak

I shall be away for a few days. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 06:51, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Wheeeee! Pesky (talk) 06:51, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

I need sleep. My wife and daughter are awesome! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:17, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Gods and all Good Things bless the baby girl :o) What are you calling her? Pesky (talk) 04:32, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

My wife was so very happy that when I called our unborn daughter "Little Honey" when I started talking to her that "Little Honey" is her nickname. ;)

"Diana" honors a mathematician who catalyzed my writing my wife, on her birthday it turned out; I am happy that "DiaNA" also recognizes with my wife, who is a geneticist. Diana is also international and mythologically a strong woman.

"Sandra" honors my mother's best friend and our neighbor, whose house has always been open to me and my family. It is a feminization of Alexander, and so means "she who rules men (andros)". She is ruling me, already! :D It also connotes Cassandra, "she who ensnares men", and of course the beautiful prophet who maintained her integrity and told Apollo that she was not interested; may she have greater serenity to shut her mouth when she knows she is right but others are not ready to listen than her father!

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:07, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Barnstar

The Genuine Barnstar

KW, I present this barnstar in commemoration of the recent birth in your family. Petaluma, California was the center of the universe for Jewish socialist chicken ranchers 100 years ago. That was the environment where my father-in-law was born. That's where I took this photograph. Thank you for all that you do for Misplaced Pages, and I bid you peace. Cullen Let's discuss it 06:44, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, dear Jim!

We're very tired but my wife and daughter are doing great!

Warm regards, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:19, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Jim,

I was so tired that I forgot to note that "barn" means "child" in Swedish, so your award was---to sound like Frenchie in "Small Time Crooks" as she finished the first letter in the dictionary---apposite!

Cheers, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:03, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

For the little one

	Blessings
	May she be happy; May the spirits of Love and Laughter walk alongside her all her life; May she walk with them when the path is smooth and light; May they take her by the hand and guide her when the way is unclear or the going is rough; May they carry her if she tires or stumbles; May they teach her spirit to take wings. Pesky (talk) 04:55, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Pesky!

That is beautiful!

:)

Love,

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:46, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

This is great! Congratulations to you and your wife Kiefer! Ryan Vesey 13:49, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Give her some cuddles from me :o) Pesky (talk) 06:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations!

I saw your mention of your news on Drmies's talk page. Congratulations to you also! LadyofShalott 00:53, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, my Lady! :)

Congratulations! All the best! We had our 3rd (grandchild) last month :)...Modernist (talk) 00:54, 1 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Best wishes to your children and congratulations to you. I think that grandchildren add years to their grandparents' lives---more than offsetting the years lost due to the stressors and sleep-deprivation of the grandparents' becoming parents, first! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• Just got back off hols and seen your news. Congratulations - daughters are wonderful (I have three). --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:14, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

  Thank you, Elen! I am so happy that we were lucky enough to have a daughter first! She will mature faster and help her mom to keep me in line! :) Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

  • Ha, good werk, Elen--I screwed up on the third one, which turns out to be of the male persuasion. Drmies (talk) 02:29, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

    Thanks Drmies! I had lost count of your children. Perhaps you once counted your son before he was born? Congratulations to you and your wife, and give extra hugs to your daughters, who finally have a little brother to dress up! :)10:00, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Congrats, Kiefer!! --Dylan620 01:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, so much Dylan! :) Warm regards, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:00, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• Whoa Kiefer, you procreated! Congratulations! Nothing beats the very first one--but I have to say that I thought that number three wouldn't move as much, and then he came out, and I still well up thinking about it. After two girls we now have a boy, and I promise to raise them all as manly as possible. My best and much love to you and Mrs. Wolfowitz, and to junior of course. Now get some sleep, as much as possible. Call me if you need anything. ;) Drmies (talk) 01:57, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

  Thanks again Drmies! The first days were trying on me, and even on the Mrs. Wolfowitz, whom (having thrived despite my efforts) I'd never seen cry before. She'd at most teared when watching "The Thornbirds", etc. I wasn't allowed to stay overnight the first two nights, and the first night our daughter was awake almost the whole night---surveying her new kingdom! :)

• Congrats to you! Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 02:00, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

  Thanks, Dennis! :) Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:00, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

  Please see Father. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 12:49, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

  Mrs. KW and I are very touched and flattered and humbled by your edit, Dennis! Thanks so much! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

  Objectively, there is no doubt it adds depth, emotion and quality to the article. I'm just happy for your contribution in helping me improve that article. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

• How wonderful, another new life (after the daughter of Khazar and the son of Drmies), there is nothing more precious, and nothing as revolutionary as the first time (days, weeks ...) together, enjoy every minute with your ladies! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:37, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

  My world has been turned upside down, happily, as you predicted, Gerda! Thanks for the thoughts! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• congratulations from me too! Sasha (talk) 20:22, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

  Thank you very much, Sasha! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• She's beautiful Kiefer! Ryan Vesey 13:36, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

  Thanks so much, Ryan! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• Support .. errr .. I mean - Congratulations KW!! Absolutely beautiful. Always so great to see such beauty and wonder amid the noise and haste of WP. — ChedZILLA 14:09, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

  Thanks so much for the good wishes and appreciation of our daughter! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• Aaaahhhh, she's gorgeous! Pesky (talk) 07:58, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

  Thanks again! I'm blushing on her behalf! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• Congratulations to the both of you! Worm(talk) 08:06, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

  Thanks so much David! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:56, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

• So cute! God bless you and your family. FeydHuxtable (talk) 16:22, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

  Thank you FeydHuxtable! "Meditation on the chance which led to the meeting of my mother and father is even more salutary than meditation on death." Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:08, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations!

	A binky for your little one
	Looks like you'll need a few of these! Congratulations on your newest family member! SarahStierch (talk) 20:48, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Sarah!

I've already had use of the dummy/pacifiers. I've had to bite down really hard when she doesn't want to sleep at 3 a.m.! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:52, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

That's why God gave us bourbon. FWIW, we never used pacifiers, though at ages 3 and 6 they make me change my mind. That's a nice photo, Kiefer. It's an indescribable feeling, isn't it. Enjoy, and make sure you teach her rock and roll--they don't do that in school. Drmies (talk) 05:00, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Precious

	tuning
	Thank you for quality articles on tuning and mathematicians, even fictitious ones, for tuned comments to well-wishers, and for striving for serenity when you are "right but others are not ready to listen", - you are an awesome Wikipedian! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:43, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much!

I should clarify that I just copy-edited the article on Mikhail Kadets, which was written by Sodin ("Sasha"), on whose articles its always a pleasure to work. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:16, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

I used to play dobro in an open D tuning, tuned down a step to C (CGCGCE I believe). Down tuned to make it sound a little "sloppier" for blues. For some odd reason, I found it quite comfortable although I'm guessing that is not a common tuning for slide. That was back in my younger days, before the tendons went bad. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 00:21, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

I love the sound of Dobro (resonator) guitar and its depiction on the Dire Straits album, Brothers in Arms, one of my favorites. Sorry to hear about your pains. I wish I had written major thirds tuning earlier, to save your tendons! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:27, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Started before I could read, irregular gigs from 16 up until I was 40, in the finest dives and holes in the wall America has to offer, mainly blues and country music. The tendon damage was well earned, although apparently irreparable as I've seen a dozen specialists. And I am a Fender man, customized "93 Telecaster + Hot Rod Deluxe or Laney LC50, plus other toys from the 60-70s, and keys, bass, etc. I had my time, I have no regrets. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 10:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

File:Grooveshark screenshot of King Crimson work.png

I've uploaded the screenshot you sent me. Since you know better than I what its intended use is, I'll leave placing the image to you. Cheers, Sven Manguard Wha? 01:39, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Oh, wow... congratulations on the baby! Sven Manguard Wha? 02:39, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help with the file and especially for your congratulating me!  :)

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:23, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks again, Sven. It seems that that image gets 30 viewers a day, which is substantial given its fair-use restriction to only Grooveshark. The uploading does seem to have been useful. Thanks again for all of your help. You are a great editor! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:29, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Credo Reference

I'm sorry to report that there were not enough accounts available for you to have one. I have you on our list though and if more become available we will notify you promptly.

We're continually working to bring resources like Credo to Misplaced Pages editors, and this will very hopefully not be your last opportunity to sign up for one. If you haven't already, please check out WP:HighBeam and WP:Questia, where accounts are still available. Cheers, Ocaasi 19:14, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Picking names from the end of the alphabet does not constitute a random sample, btw. It may have been haphazard and free from conscious foreseen bias, but usually a random sample would be preferable.

What conclusions can be drawn from a trial without randomization? That persons with later names are chosen first?

For a justified conclusion that Credo accounts are likely to improve articles or increase retention of writers, randomization has been recommended since the 1870s. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 11:49, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

Jason Quinn (talk) 12:54, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply, and explanation. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:48, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

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Email

Hi Kiefer. Any reason you don't have email communications enabled? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 16:37, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

I have tried to reduce my WP involvement to spend more time with my family, and sometimes to play guitar. Reducing email contact is part of that decision. I had thought that you had my email address in real life. I shall send it to you. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:46, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Chance

Id guess that like Colonel Smith you dont subscribe to the theory of random chance, and perhaps lean towards viewing coincidences as elements of the great plan? The quote you posted to me is from a section called Chance. The lines immediately preceding it are "Everything which has value is the product of a meeting, last throughout this meeting and cease when those things which met are separated. That is the central idea of Buddhism (the thought of Heraclitus). It leads straight to God."

By chance I was visiting her grave only last Sunday, just added some pics to the article. Im still hoping to totally rewrite it one day. Maybe not for a year or two, there are over a hundred thousand sources to sample, and its not easy to pick out the best ones to show the applicability of her ideas to the great problems. The need for her to be properly understood is greater now than ever before, with the global decline in religiosity, the "return of hunger" to which over a billion now suffer from, and with the rapidly expanding precariat to which millions (billions) more belong.

Eliot wrote that only the young are likely to have the clarity to grasp the applicability of her thought, so Ive been sending copies of Need for Roots to some up and coming politicians. One of them told me its been keeping her awake at night, and that she's recommended her to one of Ed Milibands senior advisers. So things are slowly happening. If they come together, it will be a kinder more just world that your beatutiful daughter grows up into, where she'll feel less need to take up the burden of the tzzadik, and be more free to enjoy the beauty of life. FeydHuxtable (talk) 19:14, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

I shall write more later, but I am touched by your message.

I rarely touch liquor, but I understand the appeal of a shot of vodka in the morning. For my part, I find reading Trotskyists and Roman Catholics invigorating. Ralph Miliband wrote a nice paragraph about the role of the working class (now paywalled, alas)] which is worth reading (but probably not worth tattooing on oneself).23:43, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, tried to sign up to buy the article, but the site kept saying Id failed to enter the anti spam code. Not sure about Miliband, but many left wing commentators in the 80s seemed almost too shell shocked to grasp what had happened. They did a lot pointless soul searching, not seeming to realise the underlying cause of the lefts fall from grace was the rightward shift of the global political centre that had took place between about 68 & 83. This article has quite a good overview of the main forces driving the change. And Embedded liberalism is not bad at indicating the quasi cyclical nature of these big shifts. If Im not misreading the political unconscious, we're almost due for another sea change, with the tipping point maybe in 2017. There's a risk that US republican insanity could derail things, but I tend to think the biggest danger is too far a shift to the left.

Another reason why her work is now so relevant. She was one of the first left winger thinkers to suggest that the totalitarian left could be just as oppressive as the worst capitalists. The problem is always with the elite. She wrote that before there could be a revolution that generally improved conditions for regular people, it would be necessary to accurately understand the mechanics of social oppression. She came probably closer than anyone to doing this with her essay on Oppression and Liberty. Camus and dozens of others have called it the greatest political essay of the 20th century. Its interesting you mention Trotsky, although he was far closer to her thinking than Stalin, she still strongly disagreed with him both in print and in person. Apparently she was one of the very few who the better of him in debate, he was spluttering with rage and shouting, while she was calmly making her points. Have added this to the article, though made the claim more neutrally as Im not sure whether witnesses sympathetic to Trotsky would agree.

Anyway, hope my message didnt come across as moribund. While the selfish elite are now causing more distress than ever, the fact that its now being felt by hundreds of millions of middle class folk, not just the inarticulate, means that the prospects for lasting positive change are better than in normal times. FeydHuxtable (talk) 11:44, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

I shall try to write later today or tomorrow. When we correspond we usually discuss serious matters, and I try to write with due care. Without attentiveness, affection does not suffice.

Simone Weil's beautiful writings always strike me like Karen Carpenter's singing---so beautiful and so sad. Why the self-hatred and anti-Jewish writing for Weil? Why the anorexia for both, and for Gödel? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:48, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

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• EdwardsBot (talk) 11:31, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)

Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page.

In this issue:

• Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
• Research: The most recent DR data
• Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
• Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
• DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
• Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
• Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?

--The Olive Branch 19:12, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Need to change your signature.

The powers that be are turning on HTML5 in two weeks on WikiPedia. This should mean the elimination of <font> tag. Going thru my talk page and I noticed you used the font tag. There Is a page that helps out with formatting text or give me a buzz if you need help. Bgwhite (talk) 04:30, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the personalized heads-up! :)

You directed me to a page that describes the font tag, so I am not worried yet. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:03, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 6

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User talk:Jarble#Your duplication tags

Resolved

Hi, Kiefer.Wolfowitz. Since you've had to advise Jarble on Misplaced Pages formatting issues before (in your case WP:OVERLINKING), would you mind weighing in on the linked discussion? 46.165.208.13 (talk) 18:24, 6 September 2012 (UTC) Hi Friendly Neighborhood IP-man! (1) I think that Jarble, like the rest of, will respond best to empathy and appeal to his good sense. I could have better empathized before, regardless of the hour or the number of articles from which I'd removed his excessive linking.... Since I was terse and firm, I don't think I'm a good intermediary to help you. Jarble did not respond to me, and doesn't seem to respond much on his talk page. I would suggest finding an editor with whom Jarble has had productive discussions in the past. (2) WP does have policies on importing text from other articles, which at minimum require an edit summary noting such borrowing. I've borrowed from articles I've written (or that Hyacinth has written) and I try to acknowledge the source in the edit summary. In cases of translation from other language Misplaced Pages to English WP, WP has templates. Jarble may be right on policy, although I suspect his communications could be better written (as mine could be). I would ask the copyright experts. There are some links on my user page to projects on copyright, etc. Good luck! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:52, 6 September 2012 (UTC) I'm aware of guidelines on taking information from one Misplaced Pages article and using it in two or more other Misplaced Pages articles, but not any policy on it. Not to mention, some people write text that they are going to use for more than one Misplaced Pages article, and it's not a case of borrowing in those instances. Like I told Jarble: "There are plenty of articles that duplicate text because the text is relevant to more than just one article." ... I also extended that to articles that share more than just the WP:Summary style text. Your continued use of the duplication tag still doesn't seem completely correct because, from what I can see, the articles are applying WP:Summary style. However, some of their sections are pointing to sections of other articles where the section isn't even going over anything new -- that is, they aren't extensively elaborating on the topic; as such, in those cases, the tag may be okay to use. But it just seems like a useless tag to me because so many Misplaced Pages articles have a small, meduim or large overlap. The duplication tag could apply to most of the articles on Misplaced Pages. Whatever the case, it definitely shouldn't be placed at the top of articles; it's a section tag, at least the one you're using, not a "whole article" tag. But, anyway, thanks for the reply, Kiefer.Wolfowitz. 46.165.208.13 (talk) 00:30, 10 September 2012 (UTC) I agree with you on all of your main points. It's just good to tread cautiously around copyright issues. It's also good to write early in the day rather then late at night when delivering advice! Good luck! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:37, 10 September 2012 (UTC) Thanks again. 46.165.208.13 (talk) 17:31, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your message about stats by Henryk

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Extended content

Thanks for your message about stats by Henrik but these informations "Emw's version is a visual tool written by Emw, based off of Henrik's data. Trending Topics, provides detailed view. Also does not go as far back in time as stats.grok.se WikiRoll: top viewed pages of the day/week/month/year on some Wikipedias, by Maciej Smoleński. WikiTrends: articles with biggest view increases (only Misplaced Pages) Wiki-Watch: Last 30 days, also works when stats.grosk.se is down. For Misplaced Pages English. For Misplaced Pages German: de.wiki-watch.de/ Raw data used for third party programs or analyzing (Henrik's source); see also User:Emijrp/Wikipedia_Archive#Domas_visits_logs" aren't useful. Stats by Henrik are out of order. And we don't know why... That's a pity. Thanks a lot again and best regards. IP, 8 September 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.4.38.247 (talk) 05:47, 8 September 2012 (UTC) This be the message: Man hands on misery to man Hi! Life is unfair, and full of bitter disappointments. Hendrik is away, and repeating complaints on his page is unlikely to summon him. Try leaving a bunch of mushrooms on his talk page. Swedes cannot resist mushrooms in the fall. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:34, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to comment at Monty Hall problem RfC

You are invited to comment on the following probability-related RfC: Talk:Monty Hall problem#Conditional or Simple solutions for the Monty Hall problem? --Guy Macon (talk) 17:14, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, but this seems like a headache. I trust Richard Gill's judgment. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:43, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Guy,

RfCs usually should be a last resort. The Information Technology RfC seems to have been premature, and two edits counter-productive:

• Unless you are aiming to escalate irritation into conflict, please do not blue-link policy to established editors, particularly late at night.
• Also, unless you are being deliberately provocative, do not put templates on the talk pages of established editors.

We all make mistakes. I wish you luck with IT and MHP. Sincerely, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:41, 9 September 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Grooveshark screenshot of King Crimson work.png)

Thanks for uploading File:Grooveshark screenshot of King Crimson work.png. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see our policy for non-free media).

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IP editor at work again

Hi Sven and bot!

An IP editor removed the screen-shot, along with discussion of copyright infringement from the lede.

Same old, same old.

Maybe somebody should add Fripp's statement that UMG is worse than Grooveshark?

Sincerely, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:34, 10 September 2012 (UTC)

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• EdwardsBot (talk) 05:15, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

Hey K-Wolf

Good to hear from you. On to political guitarists, eh? I've been working on Oregon pioneer history over the last week or so. What they did to the Native American population here in the 1840s and 1850s was flat out genocide, it would seem. Pretty interesting, I'm learning as I go. best, Carrite (talk) 03:08, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

Patt was an honest geologist, in my judgment, and he just said that some DOE models made unrealistic or unsupported assumptions, which might seriously understate the risks for contamination. This is usually what scientists do when consulting! ;)

The Argentinian Indian Wars were pretty bad, also. I think that the USA's Native American population has recovered its pre-conquest numbers, about 2 million. (How does one count mestizos?)

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Guitar

Are you are a keen guitarist like myself then? I know Dennis is. I used to be into heavy rock and metal and blues only but as I've progressed on guitar I've ventured in learning jazz and flamenco which is far more complex and demanding playing. I'd like to see Slash play this huh? I've been concentrating on expanding my chordal knowledge of late from my Encyclopedia of Guitar Chords casebook edition! I've found some unusual chord inversions of ninth and ninth flat.sharp fifth chords. Sounds good in jazz playing to move down inversions. But its pretty vast. Its weird that a C9 chord you can play on the 5th fret like a D minor 7 shape shifted up a string! Phallic architecture ready for DYK nom, with a bit of a polish and copyedit should pass GA. Now an FA on it eventually would be quite something! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:36, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, Slash has made his mark, and so hats off to him. ;)

That Spanish classical guitarist is very good. His playing sounds natural, rather than preening for attention. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:23, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

• Doc, you are like my own personal YouTube DJ, nice pick, as usual. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © Join WER 18:42, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

But its useless just learning chords of course, the trick of course is to be able to apply the different inversions and know how to connect with other chords and what licks will work over them. Like B7 chord accenting the D sharp and A notes and D sharp diminished tones etc which bring out the melody. Its worth learning as much as you can I think, it makes me a much better player! Now to have Joe Pass or Barney Kessel's chordal knowledge!♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:45, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Hey Dennis check out Doyle Dykes here. Also I was figuring out this the other day by Lawrence Juber, can't get his fat tone or super clean finger work though. Not bad considering is a C major composition!

Doyle Dykes is very good, and he seems like a nice guy. I'd attend his church! Let's hope that he continues living strong. :)

Another video of him performing While My Guitar Gently Weeps has helped overwrite this abomination clogging my memory. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:50, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I've had a few lessons from Robert Conti on DVD. A Mafia boss staccato freaaaak. But knows his stuff alright.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:54, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

This is a great pleasure!

Last year, I had confessed to Malleus that I felt un-educated in my lack of understanding of music. At the time, a guitar was only a twinkle in my eye. My teaching myself guitar is also an attempt to understand basics of music.

In between professional and family responsibilities, I have been teaching myself guitar under inspiration from Robert Fripp: His Guitar Craft (GC) had performances in which (at least in my memory from record stores in the late 1980s) each guitarist played exactly one note---"circulations". When my wife and I rented an apartment with a (wretched guitar) on the wall last fall, I thought to myself, "I can play one note", and so I began with standard tuning and Hal Leonard. I have tried to emulate the GC technique---because they play beautifully, and also to avoid inflammation, which had already occurred through excessive typing last winter--- and some of its spirit in playing---for example, emphasizing relaxation.

I also wished to exercise the mephitic spirit of my junior-high band experience, which consisted in being given music to perform in concerts for parents---as fast, as high, and as loud as possible---with no discussion of musical history or theory or any ideas! Rather, I want to master basic guitar while understanding relevant musical principles, and have no ambition to become a publicly performing guitarist. I will be happy if I can make my wife and daughter happy. I find that playing guitar even for 15 minutes makes me more relaxed and productive when I return to mathematics or statistics.

I've started with frets 4-7 and am now working on frets 8-11, because they are most comfortable (noted long ago by principled guitar-pedagog Jamie Andreas, I've learned); frets 4-7 don't tempt me with open notes. (Fripp seems to emphasize the third and fourth strings and frets 7-8 in early GC, at least in the first primary exercise in the previously linked documentary.) I suspect that conventional teaching, with its emphasis on open notes, creates obstacles to fretboard fluency for most students, giving a false economy of early progress at the cost of a steeper climb from basic to intermediate guitarist.

I like major-thirds tuning, because its fretboard helps me to understand music. I've written myself exercises with Guitar Pro, trying to incorporate my very limited knowledge of musical theory. So I've learned frets 4-7 and now 8-11 via C-major scales, and lately consonant intervals tying together strings. (I've found this results in faster progress and more reliable skill than learning a few songs for each string.) Now, I'm beginning to learn chords, and I am working at mastering the major chords (in major thirds tuning). So you can see that my progress in writing articles about guitar music follows my self-instruction, rather closely.

(I do think that major-thirds tuning might be good for an aspiring guitarist, because it would encourage coherence and give the guitarist an outside sound....)

You may wish to look at the article on guitar chords, especially at the discussion of dominant seventh chords. I tried to write NPOV (and after prompting from Hyacinth did remove mention of major-thirds tuning), but Hyacinth did add a bit of qualification to a statement about playing dominant seventh chords in standard tuning. IMHO, it's obvious that such "dominant seventh chords" have little to do with their definitions (which we just gave in the article!) or even of inversions. I think that neither my attempt nor his response is the final word!

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:26, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, Hyacinth and I seem to have resolved the tempest in a teapot, and he even reinserted my graphic (after having removed it with a comment like "removing obvious error"...). What more can one want? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:20, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

You're doing a tremendous job on guitar chords, keep it up. Yeah I was the same. From my teen years to my mid 20s all I did was play Hendrixy pentatonic stuff not even bothering to learn what every note was, just the most common ones you know, same with bar chords and basic chords. But it got to the stage where I was listening to guitarists like Satriani and Malmsteen and I wanted to be able to play like that. So I started learning the Harmonic minor and Phrygian dominant and diminished arpeggios and sweeping picking and arpeggios and stuff and also started picking up the Lydian and other modes and understanding them. I did that for about a year when playing Malmsteen stuff started to get boring. It was really seeing Robert Conti clips on youtube I think who made me stop and realise how little I actually knew about melody and how they work over chords. And exactly that, I wanted to know where that weird jazzy "outside sound came from". So I made the decision to learn every note and the "weird" seeming jazz chords and that. Since I've been struggling to figure out how melody and chords work and getting away from the trap of thinking you have to start soloing from the root of the chords like in a lot of rock and blues pentatonics. my playing has come on massively since. I think the biggest concept is the 2-5-1 thing and working out solos and chords in any key, its the most common in jazz, like F minor 9, to B flat 7 sharp 5 to E flat major 7, D minor 7 flat 5 to G 7 sharp 5 to C minor 7 etc. Learning the Melodic minor scale and all its modes and understanding how to apply them is also sophisticated stuff and that and the whole tone is basically where that "outside sound" is coming from. To play a descending melodic minor/altered scale a half step above. You can introduce it into your blues playing and stuff, like blues in A when the chord change from E 7 to D7 the passing chord E flat 7 you can quickly play a B flat melodic minor scale, the flat 7 of the chord, the D flat note sharing the common tone with the minor third of the melodic minor scale. And its those shared tones of course which is why they work. Another thing is learning any scale in any key and often starting with you pinky finger. It makes you see the neck differently and is the most common type of phrasing in those complex Pat Martino/Metheny like jazz phrasing.

But the most important thing I think is getting hold of tab books or DVD instructions of guitarists who are insanely good and study and learn their music. My Best of Joe Pass book by Wolf Marshall I learned more about how melody lines work over certain chords than from anything else I think, the Robert Conti cds though are just about as good. It does sound like gobbledy gook talking about it but knowing it all and how to apply it over even the most bizarre of chords will make you a much better player. The biggest compliment I had was from my uncle who came around to me house and thought my playing was an old school jazz cd! I'll continue to get as good as I possibly can, its an achievement to see how good you can get. I think the key is actual tab book study and to practice the lines again and again until the lines of the great are embedded in your playing and you can apply them in different keys with other things you learned. I have the greatest respect for the flamenco players though and have learned to play picados and rasqueados without a pick. Here's my favourite guitarist of any genre (Paco on the right). You'll find him inspiring as I do I think. This is the very top level of guitar playing!♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:10, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Have you or Dennis heard this guy play? My favourite electric player at the moment is Alex Hutchings though. Check out this and his other youtube clips. they're mostly jam sessions but he's astounding. How many modes does he use in this!!♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:42, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks again, Dr. B.!

It's a pity that there is no "musical theory for mathematicians" or "guitar for logicians", which would help a lot in writing an article.... Instead, there are dozens of "music theory for guitarists", which all look the same---making the market for mediocre statistical textbooks look like Springer Verlag's Grundisse series in comparison! (I think that I should give the dominant sevenths a rest for a few days.)

Onto personal matters: I did like the Spanish guitarist very much. :)

I couldn't really play the long-haired dude at the appropriate volume, because my daughter's sleeping.

My tastes run towards minimalism and simplicity. I love David Gilmour and Eric Clapton when they play slowly, and Jeff Beck when he plays sweetly. This is one my favorite performances by Fripp and a GC group. I've always enjoyed Stanley Clarke, but on the other hand I cannot understand why people like Al Di Meola...

For me, learning the guitar is part of learning about music, and I would be delighted to be able to play Cat Stevens or Bob Dylan songs. The difficulty of playing chords in NST is one reason why I gave up on it.

There is room for all kinds of musicians and music. Spanish guitar and David Gilmour are counter-examples to any claim that guitarists need to use their pinkies a lot! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 14:28, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

I have to learn about "2-5-1". I saw Julian Lage and he has a YouTube video where he discusses jazz progressions, and indeed 2-5-1 are the first words in the video. He also has a video from his childhood where he does a Maggot Brain duet with Carlos Santana. (19:18, 18 September 2012 (UTC))

Conti is very good, of course. Conti's left fingers fly-off into outerspace, which I suppose makes his playing more visually interesting. Fripp's hover over the strings, and my kind guitar-store owner told me that all lead guitarists have minimal finger movements. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 14:35, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Mahavishnu and Paco de Lucia are amazing, and both keep their fingers in orbit over their strings, unlike Conti: Too many notes for my taste. I prefer more traditionally melodic and lyrical music. Fripp once interviewed McClaughlin by the way, and I think their discussion is on line somewhere. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 14:45, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Oh I quite agree that complex jazz is not something you always want to listen to. Too much of Conti would get irritating, too many notes, too much staccato, but technically and fretboard knowledge he's a great person to learn from as opposed to listen to. I regularly listen to the "simple" guitarists like Clapton and such which sound melodically great rather than a technical whizz but I can't lisen to them for too long either without wanting to see more "impressive" playing. Lots of people laud Allan Holdsworth as the best player in the world but to me the vast majority of his music is horribly dischordal and lacking what music is supposed to be out. He's a technical genius but too much so. I like players with a lot of sophistication and technical ability but who are also melodic and fine musicians. Personally I think Larry Carlton is arguably the best electric player in terms of both which are quite rare. See this Yeah Al di Meola and John McLaughlin tend to go into mindless shred mode and play weird stuff, much prefer Paco de Lucia. DiMeola often sounds like a wasp in jam jar with his fasting plecrum acoustic shredding. If tone and sweetness "turns you on" Larry Carlton is definitely a guitarist to get into. This is a classic Room 335 its called. When you have a moment check out On Solid Ground on youtube both my dad and I rate it as one of the best albums we've ever heard. just enter the track name and Larry Calrton on youtube and you'll find it. Here's a sweet taster of one of the tracks here. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:31, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Allan Holdworth has played with many talented musicians.

A musicologist friend took me to see John Cage, and he loved it. I didn't understand it or see the point of sustained discordance. There's discordance in King Crimson's Red album, but it's resolved into concordance or at least into beautiful melodies that ache.

Sometimes, if I see somebody "shredding" (or any heavy metal guitarist), I think that they are to music what is to beauty, or the Irish Elk was to evolution---too much obsession about antler size. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:11, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Yeah its called maturity, I feel the same! As a teenager and early 20s I used to come from the "faster is better" school of guitar. But they don't impress me much any more I'm much more impressed by a sweet but meticulously planned jazz solo. My dad send me an email last night on a Rippingtons track which Zakk Wylde guested on and the solo sounds really synthetic and just like he's playing fast scales. Rippingtons are usually jazzy though! See 3:25 onwards of the link. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:08, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

A man's gotta know his limitations...

KW indeed has a fever, and shall wait a while before discussing whether Kolmogorov or von Neumann or Gibbs or Fourier is more important than Turing and Gödel or Tesla (or the other weirdos featured in the bargain section of Barnes & Noble). Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:18, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

More tone

• Listen to this for tone!♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:18, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

He's really good. :) And I love his Adrian Belew hair-progression, also! On the other hand, I feel that the music could sometimes be improved if the guitarist was not the center of attention. (But now, 5:57, in "So What (1997) on YouTube, he's made me smile.) When Julian Lage played in Scandinavia recently, he was up front, but the other guys often had the leads.

I do like Carleton's melodic songs, which include some of my favorites (and my wife's, such as the Philadelphia Soul songs...). This is a case where Carleton isn't playing too much or getting in the way of the music. I should listen again. Sometimes it's rewarding to listen closely to an arrangement that superficially sounds conventional, and then try to understand what's happening. My sandbox has a draft article on a Crafty guitarist who has interesting pieces, which took some time to appreciate, because I didn't understand that he was playing different guitar tracks.... Reimagining a song that originally featured Steve Howe must be a challenge for any guitarist, I think! :)

I like to think of Pat Metheny, whom you mentioned before. When he plays, I think the music comes first. (Fripp is probably the most extreme in trying to avoid the spotlight.)

I'm going to try to practice the next time the baby is awake. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:15, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Do you know E lydian type phrasing? I've been playing it a lot recently, Steve Vai uses it a lot but he tends to go overboard on the shred. Basically the fourth mode of a B major scale. Forgive me if you can play it, E, F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, E,. Play those sort of notes on the 7 fret 5th strong from the E. Now slide up an E5 bar shape 2nd fret 4th string, 4th fret 3rd string slide that up to the 4th fret and 6th and 4th, 2nd then 4th then play the following chord Middle finger 6th fret 4th string, index finger 4th fret 3rd string, pinky 7th fret 2nd string and ring finger 6th fret first string on the A# (B flat note). E lydian chord. G # minor arpeggios and stuff work well over it. I've been improvising a lot recently over that sort of thing and intrducing F whole tone in with it. It sounds really good although like Vai I can't but help an immaturely play the odd tapped arpeggio. Here's the sound of E lydian here here. Sounds good if you ignoring the mindless shredding further on! Vai probably represents everything you hate about certain guitar players though LOL, he's essentially a show off, flamboyant, faster is better and often off focus and mindless. He can get real irritating, I mean the 3 neck guitar says it all! But that's the E lydian sound I was pointing out anyway..♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:20, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't listen much to Vai, but I know that he's more than the devil's guitarist in Crossroads. :) Fripp has stated that Vai is a more dedicated and better guitarist, and I think that Fripp has also volunteerd that a song of Vai's (For the Love of God) is one of his all time favorite instrumental songs. I think that Vai meditates and thinks about what he's eating, for health and to avoid causing pain, etc., and seems to be a good guy. I have nothing but respect for him.

C.f. Zappa:I like Zappa primarily for his training of Adrian Belew and other good musicians; I trust my musician friends who tell me that they love Zappa and that his music rewards attentive listening, as a proposition applying to sophisticates. He just doesn't do anything for me, except for his joke songs of satire or weirdness, of which a little joke about orgasmic dysfunction ("dynamo, dynamo") or "yellow snow" goes a long way. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 14:19, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

Shawn Lane

Just been studying Shawn Lane's video on youtube. Some excellent ideas. I've been working out and drawing up a tab for his likes in here, especially the F# harmonic minor lick and the G mixolydian lick nearer the end see this.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:43, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

He seems to have been a nice fellow. It's sad that musicians so often have trouble getting medical care in the USA.

Take a look at the dominant sevenths discussion at guitar chords, please, in which Hyacinth's responses have turned from laconic to draconic. At most one of us can be right, and both of us may well be nuts. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 12:56, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

My copy of Tonal harmony by Kotska, Payne, and Almén arrived today. In half a year, I may know something about modes and understand a bit about what Fripp's directions improvisation in "A Dorian scale" means, with my playing. On the other hand, my verbal abilities trump my hand-eye coordination (although I have quick reflexes), and so I would be far more productive learning songs by Cat Stevens and Bob Dylan---and writing malicious but hopefully funny doggerel like a mathematician from Harvard than worrying about fast players. I would like to reconnect with prosody and verse, and better understand rhythm. Perhaps I can put Karl Shapiro's "Auto Wreck" to music? (C.f., Dig Me) ;) More seriously, it's hard to practice guitar with my baby girl needing to sleep, etc., and I'd rather play with her than my guitar when she's awake, so I've not made much progress lately, but I'm happy. I can write more quietly than I can practice. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 18:54, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

A Dorian, 2nd mode of G major, pretty basic think of it as an A minor scale with a sharp 6th. you can use it to play over an Aminor 7 to D 7/9 blues type funk.

Anyway See these: ♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:38, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm looking for the biggest book of guitar licks/exercises I can find, know of any?♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:30, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Here's advice that I've read:

• Listen to a jazz clarinetist or saxophonist. They cannot play chords, so their solos must be very interesting.
• Play one string for six months (or two hours ...).
• Learn a lot of great songs, especially a lot of great songs by a few guitarists.

Write your own songs. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 12:36, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, not many saxophonists can play chords. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:11, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

When I watched a documentary about congenitally joined twins, who shared 20-30% of each other's brains, I thought that with genetic engineering, one could build a human super computer. Now, I think that it would be more feasible to build a multi-saxophonist to play chords. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:51, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Not just feasible, but commercially quite successful. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:59, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I know very little, but I am trying to do a few things well and in a state of relaxation, before I expand my skills. Because I've switched from OST (on a crappy acoustic) to (on an Ovation Celebrity) NST to augmented-fourths to major thirds (which seems like paradise), my left-hand progress has been slow, although my sinisterity and stamina have improved. I feel comfortable with alternate picking, now. I noticed that I had a dipthong slide when I switched between my index and pinkie finger, so I've been practicing with clarity. My right-hand has made steady progress, especially since I bought a metronome and lately have been using the metronome on Guitar Pro. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:37, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

oh I do, I'm always listening to Stan Getz, Charlie Parker, Bill Evans etc trying to work things out. I have a book of jazz guitar licks in piano notation and its very difficult to work out! A dorian/A minor blues recommend jamming to this. Save it on cd. Its basically only A minor 7 to D 9/D minor 9 and the occasional B minor 7 flat 5 and E7 alt but its essentially a 2-5 jam A minor to D. Basically the F sharp is the key note here, the sharp 6th of the A minor scale which makes it A dorian, which is also the major third of the D9 chord, and the major 7 of a G major 7 chord. So slur and slide into F sharp playing all with it and play A minor blues/dorian type phrasing and you'll sound like a god like me hehe! I also add in an A melodic minor on occasion to throw in some extra spice, basically the same as Dorian but with a G sharp raised 7th instead of G, a flat 7th.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:22, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

OK I'm giving you and Dennis a headache with my theory knowledge..♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:57, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry, Dr. Blofeld, but it's difficult now to read anything serious, and especially given my lack of knowledge of chord theory, your postings are over my head. I shall be delighted to be able to play major, dominant sevenths, and minor chords fluently on the fretboard, and to be able to connect such chords in stereotypical but beautiful progressions. :)

When guitarists start talking about "D 9/D minor 9 and the occasional B minor 7 flat 5" it brings to memory junior-high discussions of bras :) and :( of my Kentucky relatives' genealogical discussions---which rivaled Icelandic OCD-sufferers for the precision of "2nd cousin thrice removed ...", which did give me headaches. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:35, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

The way of the dexterity

I seriously worked on my picking by doing the Guitar Craft first primary exercise, which can be seen on the "Careful with that Axe" video, perhaps one among part 4 (after 5:20, especially 6:40---and remember that these are advanced Crafties..., not beginners). I also used a new pick (since my sweat had warn away the grippers on the old). The sound was much better than in weeks. It really helped to align my alternate picking. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:27, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Vital articles

Just an FYI, I undid your BOLD edits to the page until the discussion plays out, and also added an unsigned template to the discussion you started pbp 15:00, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Von Neumann and Kolmogorov are orders of magnitude more important than Gödel or Turing, so I have trouble imagining that revert as supported by any mathematician.

The others could have some discussion, I suppose, although Gibbs and Fourier and either Pearson or Fisher should be added. Peirce should be added also. It's hard to imagine Nietzsche or Freud, etc., being judged important in comparison. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:19, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

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Major thirds tuning

I've removed the image from the article once again. Talk page or no talk page, good article review or no good article review, the image lacks a rationale for this usage (and thus fails NFCC#10c) and it is not clear what readers are losing by not seeing this particular guitar (and so it seemingly fails NFCC#8). I'm happy to discuss it, but it unambiguously fails at least one of the NFCC, and so does not belong in the article at this time, and, in any case, the burden of proof falls on you to demonstrate that it does meet the criteria, not to me to prove that it doesn't. J Milburn (talk) 15:28, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

And now I see that you have reverted my edits at Ralph Patt‎. It'd be nice if you'd provide a policy-basis for your edits, rather than just attacking my intentions. J Milburn (talk) 15:30, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

You need to cool your jets.

You stated that the guitar appears in the lead picture, which suggests you have either vision problems or other problems.

The article has been reviewed (for more than a few minutes, a habit you would do well to acquire) by User:Reaper Eternal, who is familiar with licensing standards, as am I. You can discuss why the rationale given on the talk page is inadequate, but your thrill-kill spree of fair-use images shall not include this article. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 15:34, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

There's no way I'm going to be able to have anything resembling a reasonable dialogue with you when you're approaching the situation with that attitude. I am a highly experienced good/featured article reviewer, and so your review jibe has absolutely no place here (and no, I'm not an expert on guitars.). I severely doubt that you are familiar with "licensing standards" if you believe that plastering these book covers on the article is completely acceptable. I have already explained why the images do not meet the policy, and I have pointed out that the burden of proof lies with you. Do you want me to explain it again? What more do you want from me? J Milburn (talk) 15:43, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Milburn,

Your deletion rationale for the guitar was ridiculous, and demonstrated that you had not understood the images and their role in the article. Are you saying that you had bothered to read the articles before removing images and proposing their deletion from en:WP willy nilly? Your contributions log shows you had little time to do so....

The covers for the booklets may be deleted, but the on-line Vanilla Book does serve a useful role and it should be preserved if possible. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:05, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Ok. I'm not an expert on guitars. I assumed it was the same one as was used on the lead image, because, glancing through the article, it said that that guitar was used by the subject. If I was wrong, I apologise. I don't think that justifies you labelling everything I say as heresy. I didn't read every word of the article, but I did try to get an idea of the subject matter in order to judge the usage of the images. Even if it's not the same guitar as the one in the lead image, it's still not clear to me that it is necessary for the article. The NFCC require that removal of an image be detrimental to reader understanding of an article- I'm not clear on why seeing this particular guitar is so important to reader understanding that not seeing it would be a bad thing. As for the Vanilla Book, what do you feel the cover adds? Sure, the book is important, but that doesn't necessarily mean that its cover is. J Milburn (talk) 16:12, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

"The article has been reviewed (for more than a few minutes, a habit you would do well to acquire) by User:Reaper Eternal, who is familiar with licensing standards." I actually haven't yet checked the copyright status of any of the images. (I commonly review the prose first, since that takes the most time, and review the images when the prose is settled.) I did take the time to review the image copyrights, and I have to agree that the covers of the two booklets do not really belong in the article since they do not add much to the understanding of the article. Furthermore, their removal would benefit the article by reducing the excessively large number of images (I believe I commented about this in the GA review), and it would leave your created images which do benefit the article by demonstrating the various aspects of major-thirds tuning. Concerning the unfree image of the guitar, I am currently uncertain about whether it is necessary for understanding the article. Personally, if this were my article, I would remove it because I dislike non-free content. The image of Ralph Patt is necessary, since no free alternative could be made (he has died), and none appear to exist, thus passing WP:NFCC #8. Reaper Eternal (talk) 16:24, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I added the second guitar because the Patt--guitar image is blurry (and it appears to be a six-string guitar, to this non-expert). I used to have difficulty imagining what an eight-string guitar looks like. Most 8-string guitars are heavy-metal axes (not jazz guitars), so imagining what Patt's guitar looks like is very difficult. (You can look at the articles on 9-10 string guitars to see that they look much weirder, than Patt's or other 8-string guitars.)

Regarding the Vanilla book. Its subtitle and explanation of the title are visible on the cover, which provide valuable information. The subtitle and explanation (from Lester Young) are not discussed in reliable sources (or if my memory is correct, the "color" source from the Yahoo guitarist group, with a death notice).

Again, it may be reasonable to delete both images, although I think it would be erroneous to delete the eight-string guitar from the article. I could certainly understand a talk-page consensus to delete the Vanilla book cover from the article. I trust that it would be reasonable nominate the images for deletion only after the talk page consensus had recommended such deletion. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:27, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

There remains a fair use rationale for the major-thirds tuning article to have a picture of Patt's guitar, since he was the founder and because multiple reliable sources discuss the use of 7- and 8-string guitars for major-thirds tuning.

I understood fair use to allow only one use per image, and so two different guitars are used in the Patt and M3 articles.

I again would ask that you discuss this on the talk page and allow consensus to form before nominating the picture for deletion. Please remove the 2 premature templates. Sorry. I misread the time-stamp, and thought that you had re-inserted the templates despite this discussion. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:32, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I accept that the guitar itself is probably significant, but that doesn't necessarily mean that an image is required- it just means that it should be talked about. If we're using the image to show what an 8-string guitar would look like, then it would be replaceable. It may be replaceable anyway- where's the guitar now? Alternatively, to cut down on non-free content, you could use a lead image of Patt with the instrument- two birds, one stone? That sounds like it would be a good compromise for our respective positions, at least with regards to the Patt article. J Milburn (talk) 19:18, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Also, there's no need to have both File:Eight-string acoustic-electric guitar of Ralph Patt.jpg and File:Eight-string acoustic-electric hollow-body guitar by Jim DiSerio 1960s for Ralph Patt .JPG. Nothing stops the same non-free image being used in two articles, provided both usages meet the NFCC (including both usages having detailed, specific and separate rationales). J Milburn (talk) 19:21, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I agree with your idea about combining Patt with his guitar. Unfortunately, none of the Patt pictures on the website show a clear 8-string guitar. My guess is that each was worth 20 thousand USD, which would make him use them for recording but perhaps not when posing with friends.

I shall write a second fair-use rationale for one guitar and delete the other, then. It seemed to me that there was "one photo, one page" language on the uploading form. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 19:38, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Vanilla book

Displaying the cover allows the reader to understand the meaning of "vanilla" and avoids OR. Without the cover displayed, I would add a sentence about Lester Young and cite the book-cover. Would that be acceptable to you, Reaper Eternal? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:54, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

It's done. I've also renominated the image for deletion. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:06, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

That looks a lot better. Thanks! Reaper Eternal (talk) 17:36, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! You should feel free to object to the inclusion of its details, per WP:RS. However, I think that the vanilla book discussion is useful to the readers, especially if they are guitarists. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 17:52, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Done! Thanks for your help. I appreciate your taking the time to discuss the issues. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 20:15, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

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If you could review this really quick

Since User:Bouchecl doesn't appear to have edited for a few days, I need a second opinion on User:PParmley's draft before implementing it. The requested edit is for the article Pacific Gas and Electric Company, which PParmley has been steadily improving over the past few months through userspace drafts and requests for implementation at PAIDHELP. The talk page section for the most recent requested change is here. And the requested draft to be implemented is at User:PParmley/PG&E History part 5. draft.

It's a lot simpler than past drafts PParmley has made because it's not replacing or rewriting info, but adding in missing info, namely info about the 1950's to the 1980's, which is completely missing from the current history section in the article. If you could look everything over and leave a comment in the talk page section on whether anything needs to be changed in the draft or whether it's good to be implemented, I would appreciate it. Silverseren 01:24, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I'll try to look at this today. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 08:15, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I gave feedback, almost all praise. Hobbes Goodyear spot-checked the sources, and I have never had cause to second guess his judgment. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:01, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

What do you mean?

I understand you want it "given a rest" but I disagree, given the charge and countercharges. However, I did not understand these remarks:

":Alan,

It is unconstructive for you to post this template,

• Alanscottwalker (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log),

which invites somebody to block you. Neither Malleus nor other non-administrators can block you: I know; I've tried."

Why would filing an Arbcom request notice be a invitation to block and what does whether anyone can block, matter for posting the standard arbitration notice? Alanscottwalker (talk) 15:58, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi Alanscottwalker,

So you think that this is worth NYBrad's time? Elen's? If I want Elen's time wasted, I should be the first to drive her up the wall, thank you.

Review the template's output, which includes the invitation "block user".

Straight men get paid more than buffoons, and so (not minimizing my income) I omit the customary wink, wishing that most readers will eventually chuckle.

Sometimes a koan can diffuse ill-will and bewilderment, even if en ko rarely defuses explosive devices or situations.

This is not a situation.

Kiefer.Wolfowitz 16:17, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments on the arbitration request, I shall take them to heart. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:16, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

No problem, Mark.

I have tremendous respect, even affection for you as an editor, as I do for Malleus, and my main concern has been that everything is okay in personal life.

If I see an editor who seems to be having trouble, I have several times invited the editor to call me, day or night. But this is not one of those times.

Just take it easy, and don't read too much at arbitration. This will pass, soon. :::You have done enough explaining what happened and apologizing. Malleus doesn't hold grudges, and I hope you two will cooperate again. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:22, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

I appreciate your words here, very good advice. I hope this will pass soon, so we can all get back to doing what we do best. Mark Arsten (talk) 22:35, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Say my name and like the Devil I appear. Srsly, I hope you are right and we'll see these two editors working together again in the future. And you could point Alanscottwalker at Template:User-multi/template#Other_user_information_templates if encouraging him to pick a better one. Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:38, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Indeed I don't hold grudges, haven't really got the memory for it. I think the proposed ArbCom case is quite simply ridiculous, I have no intention of taking part in it, and I'd advise Mark to ignore it as well. We had a minor disagreement, water under the bridge. I certainly won't be losing any sleep over it and neither should Mark. I would though like to see Bongwarrior's bollocks flying from a flag pole, but that's just me. Malleus Fatuorum 22:53, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for not holding a grudge, hope I run into you at FAC sometime. Mark Arsten (talk) 23:57, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Fair play

Greetings friend. It would be great to see more thoughtful consideration from you when you feign interest in an important site-wide discussion. I know when you are feigning because I know what you are capable of; and I weigh that against your edits. Cutting to the chase, I'd like you to reduce the text wall you added here which detracts, to a concise statement regarding your point. I hope to hear from you or simply see this reduction soon, if you are around. I appreciate your understanding. 76Strat  da _Broke da (talk) 04:07, 1 October 2012 (UTC)