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|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For your kindness and helpfulness towards other users. Keep up the good work! ] (]) 09:56, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
I've been frogging over the past few days, and the fungi season has definitely started! I have a coral fungi that I thought you would like for wiki, plus I also have a puff ball which I will upload later, will leave a message here when it is uploaded. Saw lots of fungi over the last few days, but only photographed the really interesting ones as I was using my small memory card, and wanted to leave some space for frogs.
There was another nearby (about half a metre) which was 8cm tall, so I would go with Ramaria lorithamnus. It was taken in rainforest, was very little Eucalypt around. Do you want me to upload it to wiki? Thanks. --liquidGhoul11:38, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Nomenclature of fungi
Hey there. I recently stumbled across an issue of Nova Hedwigia Beheift titled "the genera of fungi" (or was it agaricaceae?). It's filled to the brink with mind-numbing nomenclatural discussions of all the genera ever described (I think, anyway). Would it be any use if I looked up the specific ref or any specific genera? Circeus00:20, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
That would be friggin' trés bién. The first one that would be absolutely great to get a clarification on is Agaricus which was called Psalliota in many texts fro many years and I've been mystified as to why. Other articles I intend cleaning up are Amanita muscaria, which is the one I intended taking to FA first but it just didn't come together well, Gyromitra esculenta as a future FA, Agaricus bisporus as a future FA, and cleaning up the destroying angels - Amanita virosa, Amanita bisporiga and Amanita verna. Boletus edulis would be a good one to check too. let me know if anything interesting pops up. I'll see ifd I can think of any other taxonomic quagmires later today. Work just got real busy :( cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs02:01, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Generally, that's pretty arcane and only relevant to genus articles, or species that were tightly involving in defining them (for example, there seems to be an odd debate over the multiple type species for Amanita). I'll look up Agaricus, Amanita (since A. muscaria's the current type) and Psalliota. I'll also dig up the ref so you can look it up yourself, with any chance. Circeus04:52, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
I only quickly thumbed through it and noted the full ref (Donk, M.A. (1962). "The generic names proposed for Agaricaceae". Beiheifte zur Nova Hedwigia. 5: 1–320. ISSN0078-2238.) because I forgot about it until the last minute. Psalliota looks like a classic synonym case. It shares the same type with Agaricus, and might be older. Circeus01:02, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Weird! I thought Linnaeus was calling all sorts of things Agaricus so I wonder how it could predate that really....anyway I am curious.cheers, Casliber (talk·contribs) 02:46, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Okay, First thing I have to say is... Damn, 18th-19th century taxonomy and nomenclature of fungi is a right mess. Whose bright idea was it to give fungi 3 starting dates in the ICBN???
LOTS of "per" in citation here. See
On Agaricus
Etym.: Possibly "from Agarica of Sarmatica, a district of Russia" (!). Note also Greek ἀγαρικόν "a sort of tree fungus" (There's been an Agaricon Adans. genus, treated by Donk in Persoonia 1:180)
Donk says Linnaeus' name is devalidated (so that the proper author citation apparently is "L. per Fr., 1821") because Agaricus was not linked to Tournefort's name (Linnaeus places both Agaricus Dill. and Amanita Dill. in synonymy), but truely a replacement for Amanita Dill., which would require that A. quercinus, not A. campestris be the type. This question compounded by the fact that Fries himself used Agaricus roughly in Linnaeus' sense (which leads to issues with Amanita), and that A. campestris was eventually excluded from Agaricus by Karsten and was apparently in Lepiota at the time Donk wrote this, commenting that a type conservation might become necessary.
All proposals to conserve Agaricus against Psalliota or vice versa have so far been considered superfluous.
On Lepiota
Etym. Probably greek λεπις, "scale"
Basionym is Agaricus sect. Lepiota Pers. 1797, devalidated by later starting date, so the citation is (Pers.) per S.F.Gray. It was only described, without species, and covered an earlier mentioned, but unnamed group of ringed, non-volvate species, regardless of spore color. Fries restricted the genus to white-spored species, and made into a tribe, which was, like Amanita repeatedly raised to genus rank.
The type is unclear. L. procera is considered the type (by Earle, 1909). Agaricus columbrinus (L. clypeolarus) was also suggested (by Singer, 1946) to avoid the many combination involved otherwise in splitting Macrolepiota, which include L. procera. Since both species had been placed into different genera prior to their selection (in Leucocoprinus and Mastocephalus respectively), Donk observes that a conservation will probably be needed, expressing support for Singer's emendation.
On Psalliota
Etym.: ψάλιον, "ring"
Psalliota was first published by Fries (1821) as trib. Psalliota. The type is Agaricus campestris (widely accepted, except by Earle, who proposed A. cretaceus). Kummer (not Quélet, who merely excluded Stropharia) was the first to elevate the tribe to a genus. Basically, Psalliota was the tribe containing the type of Agaricus, so when separated, it should have caused the rest of the genus to be renamed, not what happened. It seems to be currently not considered valid, or a junior homotypic synonym, anyway the explanation is that it was raised by (in retrospect) erroneously maintaining the tribe name.
On Amanita
Etym.: Possibly from Amanon,a mountain in Cilicia.
A first incarnation from Tentamen dispositionis methodicae Fungorum 65. 1797 is cited as devalidated: "Introduced to cover three groups already previously distinguished by Persoon (in Tent. 18. 1797) under Agaricus L., but at that time not named. It is worth stressing that was not mentioned."
With Agaricus L. in use, Amanita was a nomen nudum per modern standard, so Persoon gave it a new life unrelated to its previous incarnations, and that is finally published after a starting date by Hooker (the citation is Pers. per Hook., 1821). He reuses Withering's 1801 definition (A botanical arrangement of British plants, 4th ed.). "The name Amnita has been considered validly published on different occasions, depending on various considerations." Proposed types include (given as Amanita. Sometimes they were selected as Agarici):
A. livida Pers. (By Earle, in 1909). Had been excluded in Vaginata or Amanitopsis and could not be chosen.
A. muscaria Pers. (By Clemens & Shear, 1931) for the genus (1801) from Synopsis fungorum, was generally transferred to the one from Hooker's Flora of Scotland, which is currently considered the valid publication of Amanita (or was in the 50s).
A. phalloides (by Singer, 1936) for the 1801 genus.
A.bulbosa (by Singer & Smith, 1946) for Gray's republication. This is incorrect as Gray's A. bulbosa is a synonym of A. citrina. Some authors consider Gray to be the first valid republisher.
A. caeserea (by Gilbert, 1940). Troublesome because not known personally to Persoon or Fries.
Donk concludes the earliest valid type is A. muscaria, the species in Hooker, adding that he'd personally favor A. citrina.
The name has been republished three times in 1821: in Hooker, Roques and Gray (in that order). Roques maintained Persoon's circumscription, including Amanitopsis and Volvaria. Gray excluded Amanitopsis and Volvariella into Vaginata. Right after, Fries reset the name by reducing the genus to a tribe of Agaricus, minus pink-spored Volvariella. This tribe became a subgenus, than genus via various authors, Quélet, altough not the first, often being attributed the change. Sometimes it was used in a Persoonian sense (whether that is a correct use according to ICBN is not clear to me).
Homonyms of Amanita Pers. are Amanita adans. (1763, devalidated) and Amanita (Dill) Rafin. (1830)
LOL, I love your sense of humour. Maimonedes is a good reference. The reality is that Islam takes food restrictions from Judaism; and Christianity doesn't have any restriction (courtesy of three references in the New Testament). The reason why pork should be restricted (along with many other things) is not given explicitly in the Hebrew Bible, hence Bible commentators have been offering guesses since ancient times. My own favourite, however, is Mary Douglas, wife of Louis Leakey, daughter of a Lutheran pastor. Her theory is excellent, based on her cultural anthropological observations, with a decent feel for how Biblical text works. It's rather an abstract theory though.
Anyway, I'll see if I can manage a literature review of dietry restrictions in the ANE, especially if there's anything explicit about pork. Don't think I'll find a reference for "why" the pork taboo is in place, though, if it's documented, I'd have read about that in commentaries.
Perhaps a clay tablet with the answer has been destroyed in only the last few years during the "troubles" in Iraq. :( Alastair Haines (talk) 21:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
This is the great thing about uncertainty. Lacking an answer, the reports of Maimonides, Mary Douglas and the other guy mentioned are fascinating.Cheers, Casliber (talk·contribs) 22:15, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Spotted this. I'll look for a ref to the Maimonides comment. The normal teaching is that pork is no more or less offensive to Jews than any other forbidden meat (dog, horse etc) or forbidden part of kosher animal (blood, Gid Hanasheh etc). The pig (NB pig, not pork - an important distinction which is relevant for the Maimonides comment too, I note) is "singled out" because it alone of the animals that have one of the two "signs" (it has split hooves but doesn't chew the cud) lies down with its legs sticking out. Most quarapeds have their legs folded under them. There's a midrashic lesson to be learned there, apparently, that the pig is immodestly and falsely proclaiming its religious cleanliness, when it is not. Anyway, that said, I'll look into the M comment - he was quite ahead of his time in terms of medical knowledge (check his biog). And NB my OR/POV antennae buzzed when I read that little section. --Dweller (talk) 22:52, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Have found good stuff, including online version of Maimonides text. I'll dump it here for you to use as you wish.
I maintain that the food which is forbidden by the Law is unwholesome. There is nothing among the forbidden kinds of food whose injurious character is doubted, except pork (Lev. xi. 7), and fat (ibid. vii. 23). But also in these cases the doubt is not justified. For pork contains more moisture than necessary , and too much of superfluous matter. The principal reason why the Law forbids swine's flesh is to be found in the circumstance that its habits and its food are very dirty and loathsome. It has already been pointed out how emphatically the Law enjoins the removal of the sight of loathsome objects, even in the field and in the camp; how much more objectionable is such a sight in towns. But if it were allowed to eat swine's flesh, the streets and houses would be more dirty than any cesspool, as may be seen at present in the country of the Franks.
So, Maimonides argues "pork contains more moisture than necessary , and too much of superfluous matter", whatever that means! More importantly, the "principal reason" is that if you keep pigs, you end up with a dirty and unhealthy environment. Important note: Maimonides was writing from Islamic Egypt at the time, which is why he mentions "as may be seen at present in the country of the Franks." (ie France)
The comments about the pig's habit of lying with its legs outstretched come from Midrash Vayikra Rabba (ch 13) where it is mentioned as part of an elaborate metaphor, but not in connection with any reason for particularly abhorring the creature.
Karena ini, Anda harus menulis itu.
Saya akan pergi ke Kupang 25 Juli.
Mungkin Anda ikut?
Ta'at cuma kalo ada yang liat. ;)
Tapi di Wiki selalu ada yang liat. :(
I have da book with a section on this; I don't have it with me at the moment. Thanks for the tweaks. I tweaked some of the images on Common. People should learn to hold their cameras level. The Pura Besakih particle really should be of the scale of Borobudur. Cheers, Jack Merridew10:54, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi Alastair, welcome back. Please note that my bahasa Indonesia is the pits; and that's four years along. It does take being tough to be here ;) Let me know if I can help. Been there, done that. Cheers, Jack Merridew10:54, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
I have unfortunately had to revert much of the changes you have made to the Alpha Centauri page - mainly to the structure revisions that you have done. While I agree it is best to standardise between bright star pages (i.e. Sirius), there is significant problems doing so to the Alpha Centauri page. The problem in previous edits is the confusion with Alpha Centauri the star and Alpha Centauri as a system. There was much about alpha centauri, especially its brightness compared to Arcturus as well as the relationship with Proxima Centauri. (See the Discussion with the associated page to this article.)
It was thought best to avoid complexity by giving the basic information, and add complexity in sections so information could be understood at various levels of knowledge. Also as there is much interest in Alpha Centauri from children to amateur astronomers, it was best to give the introduction as brief as possible and explain the complexities as we go.
As to modifications of articles as drastically as you have done to complex article, it might be better to do so with some discussion in the discussion section before doing so. Although I note that you have much experience in doing wiki edits, much better than me, it is better to make small changes in complex articles paragraph by paragraph than carte blanche changes. (I am very happy to discuss any issues on the article with you in the alpha centauri discussion to improve the article.)
As to the introduction, much of the additions you have made are actually speculative, and are not necessary on fact. I.e. "This makes it a logical choice as "first port of call" in speculative fiction about interstellar travel, which assumes eventual human exploration, and even the discovery and colonization of imagined planetary systems. These themes are common to many video games and works of science fiction."
has little to do with the basic facts on alpha centauri. I.e. Nearest star, third brightest star, binary star, etc.
As for "Kinematics" as a title, this is irrelevant (Sirius article also has it wrong). (Also see Discussion page for Alpha Centauri with SpacePotato)
Note: I have contributed much to this page - 713 edits according to the statistics. (27th April 2008 to today)
Arianewiki118:04, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
You know what I don't get? On page 245 of George (1981), and again on page 40 of Collins (2007), George gives a diagram showing the arrangement of unit inflorescences on a Banksia flower spike. Both diagrams clearly show a hexagonal layout; i.e. every common bract is surrounded by six equidistant common bracts, thus forming little hexagons. In support of this, George (1981) states "The unit inflorescences are so arranged on the axis that there are three pattern lines—vertical, and both dextral and sinistral spiral."
I haven't dissected an inflorescence, but in some species the pattern persists right through flowering and can be seen on the infructescence. You won't get a better example than this B. menziesii cone. Look at that pattern. There's no way you could call it hexagonal. It is a rectangular (or rather diamond, since the lines are diagonal) grid. Depending on how you define a neighbourhood, you could argue that each common bract has 4 or 8 neighbours, but there's no way you could argue for 6. Similarly, you could argue for two pattern lines (dextral and sinistral spiral) or four (dextral, sinistral, vertical and horizontal), but there is no way you could argue for 3, because there is no reason to include vertical whilst excluding horizontal). On top of that there is a beautiful symmetry in the way each common bract is surrounded by its own floral bracts and those of its neighbours. But George's diagrams destroy that symmetry.
I thought maybe B. menziesii was an exception to a general rule, but you can see the same diamond grid, though not as clearly, in File:Banksia serrata4.jpg, and I reckon (but am not certain) I can see it in my B. attenuata cone. And in File:Banksia prionotes mature cone.jpg too. What the heck is going on?
(I'm not just being a pretentious wanker here. I thought the diagram was interesting and informative enough for me to whip up an SVG version for Misplaced Pages. But since copying George's diagram isn't really on, and it is much better to go straight from nature if possible, I was basing my version on this B. menziesii cone. But it isn't going to work if the diagram shows a rectangular grid and the text has to say it is hexagonal.)
Thanks for reminding me on this one - I think it was Alex (or Kevin??) who told me that every bract pattern was unique to a species and hence diagnostic, but as far as I know not much if anything has been published on this area. The similarity between archaeocarpa and attenuata was noted (the bract pattern remaining in the fossils). I seem to recall feeling bamboozled as well by the description when I read it some time ago. I will have to refresh myself with some bedtime reading....Casliber (talk·contribs) 13:50, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Update: I had a look at the pages in question in the banksia book(s), there is a little bit more in the 1981 monograph but not much. I meant to ring Alex George about this and should do so in the next few days...I guess the photos look sort of like hexagons stretched vertically :P Casliber (talk·contribs) 06:46, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Dipsacus fullonum Just passing through. I am not an expert with flora but I do take photos now and again. Does this image from my personal collection help or hinder your discussion? I see diamonds --Senra (talk) 12:58, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Haha yeah. Not a bad comparison at all. a diamond pattern it is there as well. You sorta let your eyes go a little out of focus and see two diagonal lines....Casliber (talk·contribs) 14:12, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
Question
If this is what developing flower pairs look like...then what are these brown and white furry things?
I note that the last six images to be posted on your talk page were posted by me. I'm not sure whether to apologise....
What is going on in the lower image? Clearly this is an inflorescence in very early bud, but those furry white things are apparently not developing flower pairs. Are they some kind of protective bract or something?
You certainly see those thingies on the developing buds of alot of banksias. I'd be intrigued what the Nikulinsky book, which is essentially a series of plates of a developing menziesii inflorescence, says (not sure, I don't recall whether it had commentary...). Another thing to look up. Was about to look up the patterns just now. Casliber (talk·contribs) 02:35, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Now I have looked at the books and bract architecture, question is are they common bracts or are they something which falls off (don't think so but..). Something else to ask Alex. Casliber (talk·contribs) 06:49, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Having found nothing in George, I've been reading Douglas's stuff on ontogeny of Proteaceae flowers, and found nothing there either.
If you snap a spike axis in half, they are just that brown colour, and essentially made of closely packed fuzz. I wonder if there is initially no gap in the axis for the flower to grow, so the developing flower literally has to shove some of the axis out in front of it as it extends. This would explain everything except for the white tip. Hesperian10:23, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I have today taken a long lunch and gone bushwalking with Gnangarra. While he took happy-snaps, I did some OR on this question. My diagnosis is: these are peduncles that have developed common bracts, but have not yet developed floral bracts or flowers.
In very young spikes like the one pictured here, they are not yet very densely packed together, so they can be perceived as individual peduncles. Given time, they will continue to grow, and as they do so they will become more and more densely packed together, until eventually they are jammed together so tightly that their dense coverings of hairs form the fibrous brown material that comprises a typical flower spike, and the common bracts at their apex will form the bract pattern on the surface of the spike. At that point, they will no longer be distinguishable as individual peduncles, but will simply be part of the spike.
When the flowers start to develop, they get squeezed together even more. At this point, sometimes, a peduncle may break off the axis and be squeezed right out of the spike as the flowers around it develop. Thus you may see one or two of these furry things sitting at random positions on the surface of a developed flower spike.
As evidence for this hypothesis I offer the following observations:
Wherever one of those "furry things" is found loose on the surface of a spike, you will also find a gap in the bract pattern beneath it, where the common bract is absent;
"Furry things" may occasionally be found partly out of the spike, but partly in, in which cases the white tip is quite obviously the common bract. In such cases removal of the "furry thing" leaves behind a visible hole in the spike where a common bract ought to be.
Not OR any more. Look at the picture of "Banksia flower bud seen in profile" here: clear evidence of the common and floral bracts forming one of those little furry upside-down pyramids, with the flower arising from it. Hesperian03:38, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
Gosh, would it really?! I was quite proud of it but a bit unsure whether it had enough depth of field. But if I'll take anyone's word that it would probably pass, I'll take Noodle snacks. :-) Hesperian23:27, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
I should have read it before posting here, in which case I wouldn't have bothered posting here at all: it is as boring as bat shit. Hesperian11:15, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
is not finalized, but the preprint is ready and formatted. It may well be one of the most comprehensive and beautiful papers on the topic of Psittaciformes evolution. Only gripe: it still does not consider the fossil record fully. Is doi:10.1080/08912960600641224
really so hard to get? 2 cites in 3 years for what is essentially the baseline review is far too little... even Mayr does not cite it - granted, most is not Paleogene, but still...).
But that does not affect the new paper much, since they remain refreshingly noncommitted on the things they cannot reliably assess from their data. And data they have a lot. Also always nice to see geography mapped on phylogenetic trees. Dysmorodrepanis (talk) 01:19, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
While I was out a-walking in the bush one day last week, I spied a banksia with an unfamiliar jizz. Even on closer inspection I was bamboozled for half a minute until the pieces fell together and I realised I was looking at a B. menziesii with persistent florets. Not just a bit late to fall: there were old cones from previous seasons with the florets still bolted on. In fact, there wasn't a single bald cone on the whole tree. I've never seen anything like it. Have you? Hesperian04:42, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Hmm..interesting. I have not ever noticed a menziesii like this, but not to say it can't happen. Might it be a menziesii/prionotes hybrid - how far is the tree from you? I'd compare the newgrowth/leaf dimensions/trunk all for comparison. Did it have any new flowers? Some of these old cones have an aura of prionotes about them...Casliber (talk·contribs) 05:11, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
prionotes crossed my mind at first, but the bark is that of menziesii, and nothing like the distinctive prionotes bark. And the flower spikes lack the woolliness of old prionotes florets.
It's quite near my place; about ten minutes drive. Even closer to where Alex lives (assuming he still lives at the address he has been publishing under lately): only five minutes drive from there I would guess. If it's prionotes (which it isn't), then we've extended the known range of that species 10km south. Likewise, a hybrid means there's a prionotes population nearby, so it amounts to the same thing. Hesperian05:30, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Paper
An interesting abstract: . A new species, plus implications, I assume, for historical biogeography. I can't access the PDF myself; I've asked Rkitko if he can. Hesperian23:52, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
G'day. More empty reassurances that I'll get to B. sessilis as soon as I have time. I printed out several useful papers today, but have been too busy to read them let alone work them in. The caesia paper Rkitko provided at WT:PLANTS looks red hot. Hesperian14:03, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Me, I've got no brains left tonight. I'm over at Wikisource mindlessly transcribing pages of Sachs' History of Botany. Hesperian14:08, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Well, it isn't the best reference, but you could use Leaf & Branch (see the prionotes article for the full citation.) Page 92: "As its thickets suggest, parrotbush regenerates readily. A prolific flowerer, it produces many seeds. In the Darling Range it is a good colonizer of gravel-pits." Hesperian14:23, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Lamont et al. (1998), pp 381–382: "Prolific flowering in D. sessilis does lead to massive seed output, accounting for its exceptional colonising ability after and between fires." Hesperian13:17, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
I've added a mention myself, in discussing high fecundity as fire adaptation. I have a handful of solid pathology papers here, so I'll make a start on a disease subsection next. G'night. Hesperian14:05, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
I know this conversation is stale now, but I found a great reference for this. The first sentence of
Rockel, B. A.; McGann, L. R.; Murray, D. I. L. (1982). "Phytophthora cinnamomi causing death of Dryandra sessilis on old dieback sites in the jarrah forest". Australasian Plant Pathology. 11 (4): 49–50.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
is
"The proteaceous species Dryandra sessilis (Knight) Domin is an aggressive coloniser of disturbed or open forest in south west Western Australia."
No indeed - this ref is much better, as the other only mentioned its colonising of disturbed areas being observed in the Darling Scarp.Can you add as I am wrestling with microsoft word in another tab? Back later. Casliber (talk·contribs) 13:53, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, didn't see this last night. Done now. I have a couple of papers on root physiology that I want to read to see if it is worth adding a paragraph, and then I'll be all done. Hesperian02:01, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
I finally made it to the library and got a hold of the article you had asked about a couple of weeks ago. There's enough info there to make DYK-worthy stubs on the genus, and three of the species (macrocarpus, katerinae, toomanis), or, alternatively, maybe enough for a GA on the genus. What are the chances of images? Apparently these fungi make small but visible apothecia on the seed capsules. Berkeley and Broome first wrote about the fungus in 1887, so maybe there's a sketch from the protologue that's useable. Anyway, I'll start adding text in a day or two and maybe we can have the first Banksia/Fungi wikiproject collaboration? Sasata (talk) 14:25, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
That's a nice image on plate 29 there. They call it Tympanis toomanis on page 224 decription of plate. How do we capture that image and replicate it on commons? Casliber (talk·contribs) 03:06, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
On page 222, they talk about finding it on a banksia cone near the Tooma River in southern NSW, which leaves me thinking it is a cone of Banksia marginata although they do not state this (OR alert ++++). Funny looking marginata cone but marginata is a hugely variable species....Casliber (talk·contribs) 03:11, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Check your email; I've sent you a copy of Beaton (1982), where they do state that the cone is B. marginata. (You guys should have asked me first; I could have saved Sasata a walk to the library.) Hesperian03:26, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
@Sasata - I'll leave it up to you whether a solid GA and one DYK for the whole shebang, or 4 species articles - you've got the material and I am happy either way. cheers, Casliber (talk·contribs) 03:11, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Am working on the article behind-the-scenes now... that picture you uploaded is excellent, and thanks Hesp for finding the protologue. Too bad the scan resolution is so crappy; I can upload a screen capture/crop to Commons, but will first investigate to see if there's a copy of the original around here so I might rescan at higher resolution. Four DYKs and 1 GA doesn't sound unreasonable for the lot, but I'll see what I can come up with. Sasata (talk) 03:32, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, it'll do the trick. I gave the article a good push towards GA. Hesp, do you have easy access to Beaton 1984, or maybe Fuhrer, B,; May, T. (1993). "Host specificity of disc-fungi in the genus Banksiamyces on Banksia." Victorian Naturalist (South Yarra)110 (2):73-75? I think once those two are located and added, that'll be it from journals (but you may find stuff to add from your Banksia books?). I could start stubs for the species, but it would be a shame to have to leave out B. maccannii. Sasata (talk) 07:09, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
When you get to Victorian Naturalist, you'll also want to grab Sommerville, K.; May, T. (2006). "Some taxonomic and ecological observations on Banksiamyces". The Victorian Naturalist. 123: 366–375.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link) Hesperian08:43, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for finding that, wonder why it didn't show up in my database search. Cas, if it's too mush hassle for you to get these, let me know and I can order them, would take 1-2 weeks to get here.
Sorry, forgot again. I've just scanned it now. Cas: I'll forward shortly; if you have Sasata's email address, can you forward it on please? Otherwise, Sasata: send me an email so I know where to send this scan. Hesperian04:16, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
! Wouldya look at that... That's embarrassing! Now excuse me while I go give eyewitness testimony in a murder trial. Sasata (talk) 23:46, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Hahaha. Fantastic. I just realised I never uplaoded a funny photo I took in WA a few years ago. I need to double check. This old cone of Banksia violacea had these dark objects on it which might be a fungus as they certainly weren't on any other cones I saw about the place.Casliber (talk·contribs) 20:25, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
As OZtrylia has a notoriously under described rang of and field of mycology study - any signs of further fungi or algae work is to be encouraged at all points SatuSuro01:51, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Taking pity on poor Cas, whose Banksia books are still packed up in boxes:
From Collins, Collins and George (2008), page 47, first paragraph of a section entitled "Fungi and lichens":
"Many kinds of fungi are associated with Banksias. There is even a genus of fungi named for their association with these plants—Banksiamyces. The first species of these was recognised in the 1880s and placed in the genus Tympanis, then in the 1950s transferred to the genus Encoelia. Further collections and research led to the description of the genus Banksiamyces by Beaton and Weste in 1982, with two further species. Six taxa are now recognised, so far known from 13 species of Banksia (Sommerville & May, 2006). Commonly known as banksia discs, they have all been found on eastern Australian Banksias and one is also known in Western Australia. They are discomycete fungi, growing on the fruit and appearing as small, shallow dark cups on the follicles (Fuhrer, 2005). When dry they fold inwards and look like narrow slits. Their effect is unkown but it seems unlikely that they are responsible for degradation of the seeds."
At the bottom of the page there is a photo of Banksiamyces on B. lemanniana. They look like little light grey maggots on the follicles. Based on the photo and textual description, I would suggest that the B. violacea photo doesn't show this genus. Hesperian11:17, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Hmmm, that's what I initially thought when I read the description and sketches in Beaton 1982, but after seeing B&B's 1872 sketches, I was pretty sure Cas's pic was a Banksiamyces. I guess I should reserve judgment until I get more info. Sasata (talk) 17:09, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
From the abstract of Somerville and May 2006: "Apothecia of these crops are of different macroscopic appearance, with lighter apothecia being mostly immature, and darker apothecia producing spores." ... so who knows? Sasata (talk) 17:11, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Any Banksia experts you're chums with that might be able to give a confirmation on your putative Banksiamyces photo? Sasata (talk) 05:45, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
You may want to have a look there as well. Appears to have been improved by a Szasz fan. I've read diagonally this article, but even that doesn't seem to support the light in which the Halpern-Szasz issue is presented in Misplaced Pages. Tijfo098 (talk) 13:19, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Okay, I'm giving my impression on F. maxima, since I'm not clear what you are actually asking. The description, I must say, is a particularly lacking part of the article under any evaluation criterion. Even as one who appreciates the topic, I'm finding the taxonomy section very confusing. As in Entoloma sinuatum, I'll gladly have a look into rewriting it if you want me to. The huge list of synonym suggest there is significant variation in the plant, possibly infraspecific taxa? I agree the Reproduction section is possibly too detailed. It can probably be reduced to a 2-paragraph primer and merged into "Ecology", though I have a hard time identifying what is species (or could be!) species-specific and what is not, as I have no familiarity with the plants in question (not to mention I am not an actual plant scientist even compared to you).
One of the greater-scale problem I see, which you might want to work on if you're going to take aim at several of these articles, is that information on the peculiar reproduction suystem in figs as a whole is spread across multiple articles (the genus article, Common fig and other species, syconium) and poorly focused, leaving no good article to aim {{main}} links at. I suspect using syconium as he main article and linking to it from others (including Ficus) might be, in the long run, the best course of action. Circéus (talk) 02:56, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Sounds good. Don't worry about rewriting anything yet. I was looking at overall meta-article structure WRT reproduction, which you've given me a good idea to work with. Cheers, Casliber (talk·contribs) 03:21, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
You'll probably find this worth watching
He's a pretty good speaker. I created a stub about the book, which is probably worth getting to DYK, although I'm not sure I have the time to expand it enough this weekend. Cheers, Tijfo098 (talk) 04:48, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
I can follow it up next time I'm at the library, but I thought you might know off the top of your head. It seems like a competent effort and I don't want to scare them off. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 01:51, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
All of the following species are worth 2x points; let me know if you'd be interested in collaborating in one or more for bonus points in a later round. Sasata (talk) 06:54, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Hahaha - thank heavens for European mushrooms :))) - yeah, I'd like to buff Clitocybe nuda (which was one of the yummiest mushrooms I've eaten), and we really should be improving the other mass-eaten edibles. Also I buffed the sickener for DYK so would be good to finish the job....Casliber (talk·contribs) 12:02, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Ok, I'll move Clitocybe nuda and Russula emetica closer to the top of "the list". I agree the popular edibles would be good to do as well, but they're hard ... we'll see how free time & motivation plays out over the next few months. Sasata (talk) 19:05, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
State of play is this - Sadalsuud (talk·contribs) has reemerged and is taking time to digest where things are up to on Betelgeuse - given he added huge amounts of content I figured it was good to let him get up to speed before pushing on. I looked how small CMi was and figured it's an easy 5x expansion - good to show what core articles can still end up at DYK. My star sourcing ain't as up to speed as my biology though so am still rough round the edges....Casliber (talk·contribs) 21:44, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
If you need anything give me a poke, I have about 15 constellation-related books sitting on my desk for Andromeda and Aries and could set you up with something. I'll also definitely give a comprehensive review of Betelgeuse at FAC, you guys have done a great job with it. Keilana| 21:57, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
Gotta run now, but some basic stuff for CMi would be a help - refs for when it rises/sets/polygon stuff etc....I haven't got much current on that, just the stars.Casliber (talk·contribs) 22:05, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
Sure, Patrick Moore's "Data Book of Astronomy" is excellent for, well, data. SIMBAD is great for finding scientific papers on stars to make things seem less crufty. The polygon stuff is available here in a .txt file, which is kind of hard to parse at first. I've got more sources sitting around, let me know if you want more names or data - I do have an excellent text called "Islamicate Celestial Globes" that I could scan for you if that helps. Keilana| 22:39, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
(Grunt, groan) gawd, getting info on Canis Minor is tough! I thought it'd be an easy 5x expansion but am struggling.....any constellation info that can be added would be a great help. I think I need about another 180 words or so....Casliber (talk·contribs) 07:44, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
OK, here's what I found. You could definitely expand the mythology section a lot more. Ian Ridpath's Star Tales is excellent, it's located here. That's especially useful for the Chinese mythology. I've also found a few papers on more ancient mythology (e.g. Mesopotamia, etc.) Try , , and . As for books, I'd also recommend the Cambridge Guide to the Constellations, as well as Julius Staal's "New Patterns in the Sky" and William Tyler Olcott's "Star Lore". If you need to expand the History section further, give some background on the various star atlases and some uranography stuff. I'm willing to help write/source if you need it, just drop me a note! I've got a lot of free time this weekend and week. :) Keilana| 08:24, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
Shepherd CJ, Totterdell CJ. 1988. Mushrooms and Toadstools of Australia. Melbourne: Inkata Press. Would appreciate you checking something for me if you do. Thanks, Sasata (talk) 19:45, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I know the book but don't have it. This was written by Queensland authors so different view which is good. I can get it from library either today or thursday (next door to work on these days). Casliber (talk·contribs) 20:43, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I was hoping you'd be able to tell me what it says about Mycena chlorophanos for an article about a similar (bioluminescent) species M. chlorophos. Don't go out of your way to get it, there's no rush, and many other articles to work on in the meantime ... thanks! Sasata (talk) 01:34, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. At least some help. I reported the edit-warrior (who had already received blockings for his behavior), but I received only could shoulders by admnistrators. As if I could know where to beg for help and report such behavior elsewhere! The problem is that GOP knows about the project´s discussion but continues his actions... Regards;--Nephiliskos (talk) 14:21, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi Casliber. Apologies for not responding sooner to the note you left on my page re the above RfC. I've had very little time for actively participating in Misplaced Pages over the last few months and that seems likely to continue to be the case over the short to medium term. I stand by an earlier commitment I made to stick with the RfC and I've been keeping up with the discussion on a periodic basis, but while things have been going round in circles I've felt that there would be little point in my contributing. My views are already on record - that I believed the best way forward was for the then-closers to draft a second RfC - but that never really took off. It does seem that opinion is moving towards a second RfC of some sort; I hope the focus will be the structure of the topic and scope of the articles, because until that's settled I believe choosing actual titles is irrelevant.
I've noted the general dissatisfaction with the previous close and ongoing comments about the closers, and accept that my mostly hands-off approach may have been the wrong way to go about things and has possibly given an impression of disinterest (not helped by my general lack of editing activity). Given my reluctance to actively interfere with the process, and the other calls on my time, it may be best if I recuse from further participation.
I finally posted the bio on Rogelio Bernal Andreo that I had been working on for a month. Within minutes it got an ugly banner. Many of the tags just seem malicious and frankly lacking serious inquiry. What do you suggest?--Sadalsuud (talk) 05:15, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
For reasons unknown to me my Arbitration appeal was archived as decline by a clerk. Even though I know that the clerk didn't follow the proper procedure as I learned about the closure 3 hours after when I saw it on my watchlist I have no hopes of it coming back. I have three issues that I'd like to consult you on. First one is a false accusation posted by an involved admin on my appeal. I was accused of calling someone "retarded" and when I pointed out this to be wrong I got no acknowledgement in return. I believe this to be a major disruption especially as it comes from an admin. Second one is also about false accusations. One of the arbitrators (not you) claimed that there is no evidence that I acknowledge the topic ban as a result of my actions when I explicitly word it in my appeal and comments that my actions were wrong and that I was not contesting the topic ban itself but it's duration. I can't make sense of this vote and personally feel unfair that such a misinformed vote is counted. Third one is the fact that I take some of the arbitrators and involved admins arguments as being completely unfair and out of line. I want to pursue this case further not because I'm dying to make an edit in that article topic but because I see this indefinite topic ban for a single incident that I caused when I was a very new editor as an injustice. I feel like I'm being treated as a mass murderer my crime was harassment. What other action can I take over this? Is there any higher authority?
In case you wonder, I'm not sending this message to you because you didn't outright declined my request (which you actually did initially) but because when I pointed out an issue that you were mistaken you acknowledged it and we moved on. TheDarkLordSeth (talk) 03:45, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi mate, this one again. Has now been subject of multiple edits which are almost pure Synth OR - one particular editor introducing links to other theories and history completely unrelated to the subject based on their own opinions. Have reverted basically the same edit 2-3 times in 48 hours but am trying to steer clear of 3RR. Continued reintroduction of a claim that a 2008 source justifies a link to a subject that became public knowledge only a few days ago. The content comes with multi-para "citations" which repeat content from other articles the editor believes are related. Myself and another editor have left notes on his TP but they have been ignored. He has also refused to engage in any of the discussions on the article TP. Your attention would be appreciated. Cheers, Stalwart111(talk)13:06, 22 September 2012 (UTC).
When I made my comment on the DYK thread, I didn't notice you had already nominated a preferred hook, so my apologies if my comment sounded inconsiderate. For the record, I wasn't keen on the last two hooks because they struck me as potentially divisive politically, and I thought it would be better for an important topic like the world's most threatened species if the political angle was omitted in the hook. I might have been wrong about that of course, but that's the issue that struck me at the time. Regards, Gatoclass (talk) 06:53, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Having taken three days away from this place to reflect on how this review descended at the back end of last week and my own response/contribution to that, I'd like to apologise for my over-reaction and thank you for the forebearance you showed in dealing with that over-reaction. I don't think I've behaved like that for about twenty years. Thank you again for taking the time to comment and helping me improve the article. Meetthefeebles (talk) 22:00, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Aaah don't sweat it/no worries, I can see why you got frustrated. Misplaced Pages is fascinating for this sort of stuff. Sorry about the talking, I basically mentioned it on MFs page hoping that more of us would end up looking at it given that it failed due to lack of attention the first time around. I'll have a look at the FAC again soon (juggling too much ++++)Casliber (talk·contribs) 02:52, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
DYK for Cenarrhenes
On 25 September 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cenarrhenes, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the leaves of the Port Arthur plum smell like stale cabbage when crushed? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Cenarrhenes. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Hello! Your submission of Rogelio Bernal Andreo at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know!
Yes, saw all these - Will get cracking. Felt knackered and went to bed early and got up late which eliminated much tweaking time.
PS: Sorry I forgot about the book, was preparing for China and just come back from a week in Shanghai. I can get the book on thursday and we can milk it for DYK....cheers, Casliber (talk·contribs) 02:47, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
Hello Casliber, you promised some further input on Talk:Ahmad Shah Massoud about a week ago. Can we still expect some? The protection has expired in the meantime and, predictably, no further progress has been made. Fut.Perf.☼06:11, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
No problem. I am impartial to the subject (military history is one subject I have not much interest in in general) so am happy to put admin hat on in these debates. Casliber (talk·contribs) 14:34, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
Your reversion marks an edit war. It doesn't have to be three. So let's just stop it right there. The page is contentious and continued reverting is going to get everyone more annoyed. Casliber (talk·contribs) 14:42, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
PS: The page is frozen to stop the edit warring - that is all. It is no indication on the relative merits of the version the page is on. That is to be decided. Casliber (talk·contribs) 21:04, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
So, do you plan to continue playing the content arbitrator? It's a rather uncommon interpretation of the admin role, and some might argue it's actually against admin policy, but I'd be willing to submit to it, as the lesser evil – it's better than the alternative of having to pretend a discussion with DS+J with the purpose of persuading them could be a rational enterprise. Only please deliver your judgments quickly, because otherwise the whole setup is simply a license for more stonewalling, and will be slowing down the necessary cleanup immensely. Fut.Perf.☼21:57, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
I can't see how an admin can supervise these areas without at least some attempt to look at how editors are using sourcing. This isn't some MMORPG but an encyclopedia. I will be looking soon. My free time is patchy however. I will ask for assistance at WP:AN/I too. Casliber (talk·contribs) 00:00, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
The committee tries to get the community to be as autonomous as possible (we ain't gov-com) so by all means take it live as the next step in this debate and notify widely. Cheers, Casliber (talk·contribs) 21:02, 27 September 2012 (UTC)
If you did this because the references should be removed from the article, you have misunderstood the situation. Most likely, the article originally contained both <ref name="foo">...</ref> and one or more <ref name="foo"/> referring to it. Someone then removed the <ref name="foo">...</ref> but left the <ref name="foo"/>, which results in a big red error in the article. I replaced one of the remaining <ref name="foo"/> with a copy of the <ref name="foo">...</ref>; I did not re-insert the reference to where it was deleted, I just replaced one of the remaining instances. What you need to do to fix it is to make sure you remove all instances of the named reference so as to not leave any big red error.
If you reverted because I made an actual mistake, please be sure to also correct any reference errors in the page so I won't come back and make the same mistake again. Also, please post an error report at User talk:AnomieBOT so my operator can fix me! If the error is so urgent that I need to be stopped, also post a message at User:AnomieBOT/shutoff/OrphanReferenceFixer. Thanks! AnomieBOT⚡21:23, 27 September 2012 (UTC) If you do not wish to receive this message in the future, add {{bots|optout=AnomieBOT-OrphanReferenceFixer}} to your talk page.
On 2 October 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Telescopium, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the constellation Telescopium has shrunk since its creation in the 1750s? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Telescopium. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.
Dear Casliber,
there is no way a collaboration with Fut.Perf. is possible. He only knows his way or no way. We have had two objections to his changes (in the lead, removal of some quotes, etc.). The Webster University book has clearly been said to meet RS, yet he tagged it. You said explicitly disputed, complicated bits, to which the lead undoubtedly belongs, should be discussed on the talk first and you were yet to comment on my comments, so was DS who still wanted to provide further reasoning. Yet Fut.Perf. is again starting an edit war. He should be banned from editing that article. In fact, he never edited that article before he had a dispute with me on an image deletion discussion, in which consensus was against him and he was noted as "unecessarily bitter" towards me and making use of administrative rights in a way that questioned his ability to do so. After that he hounded me to the Massoud - and several other - articles and ever since has created edit wars there, failing to accept opinions different than his own. He did the same with DS after DS had had a content dispute with him. When DS got a DYK promoted by several established editors reviewing it, Fut.Perf. hounded DS to the relevant article - which FP again had never edited before - and immediately discredited it including all those that had reviewed it. FP is interested in getting me and probably others like DS banned by starting edit wars, rather than being interested in that article. I am willing to work with you, Dennis Brown, or any other cooperating person on that article as I had already started to improve the article by rewriting the "Early Life" sections and other things - before Fut.Perf. started this recent edit war.JCAla (talk) 07:01, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
If someone needs a topic ban, then it is Fut.Perf. Btw, he was noted as "involved" by many editors in the arb. You, Cas, laid out the rules for unprotection of the article very clearly: "Regarding more complicated bits, discussion should take place here." Fut.Perf. didn't follow this, he simply went back to edit warring even though the most recent discussion on the complicated bits hasn't been resolved. He also tagged a source which according to consensus is reliable as unreliable. I have asked User:Salvio Giuliano to have a look at this case also, he knows the history. Hopefully, he isn't fed up with this already. JCAla (talk) 07:41, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
Casliber, you semi-protected Jack Reacher (film) recently. There is a push to mention actor Alexander Rhodes, who plays an unnamed role in the film, prominently in the article. It's based on an Internet community's inflation in popularity of the actor's IMDb page. There is an IP who keeps trying to make a proposal to this extent on the article's talk page. I've removed it a couple of times as a joke discussion, but the person has restored it, insisting that it is a "serious" proposal. What do you think? Erik (talk | contribs) 11:40, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
We're over half way through the final, and so it is less than a month until we know for certain our 2012 WikiCup champion. Grapple X (submissions) currently leads, followed by Sasata (submissions), Cwmhiraeth (submissions) and Casliber (submissions). However, we have no one resembling a breakaway leader, and so the competition is a long way from over. Next month's newsletter will feature a list of our winners (who are not necessarily only the finalists) and keep your eyes open for an article on the WikiCup in a future edition of The Signpost. The leaders are already on a par with last year's winners, but a long way from the huge scores seen in 2010. That said, a repeat of the competition from 2010 seems unlikely.
It is good to see that three-quarters of our finalists have already scored bonus points this round. This shows that, contrary to criticism that the WikiCup has received in the past, the competition does not merely incentivise the writing of trivial articles; instead, our top competitors are still spending their time contributing to high-importance articles, and bringing them to a high standard. This does a great service to the encyclopedia and its readers. Thank you, and good work!
this - I was about to open up with "Hands up everbody who is happy for Tznkai, Skomorokh and Happy Melon to be the three in charge of this again." Hence were you guys thinking or talking about it already. Casliber (talk·contribs) 14:10, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Skomorokh is unavailable, as per my last information. Dunno about Happy Melon. I don't think I'd be "happy," barring an Electoral Commission or similar body/person in place for my peace of mind, but I would probably Election Admin again anyway.--Tznkai (talk) 20:06, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Don't release CORE deliberations
I advise against releasing the CORE deliberations. I think it would only lead to unececessary complaints and drama. You guys volunteered to make some tough calls and you made them. That the decision was 3 weeks late tells me it was not easy. Releasing them could even embarrass some people, potentially. Let the chips fall where they may.PumpkinSkytalk22:42, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Agree. While I (and I'm assuming others) would always appreciate specific comments on how we could improve the articles that we worked on, releasing the full deliberations can only lead to drama. No one is alleging judicial misconduct, so the only outcome that I can see of releasing the full discussions is hurt feelings. Dana boomer (talk) 23:07, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Holla. In the Civ rfc, you replied to my comment at section 11 with a question about percentages, but I'd mentioned "10%" further below in section 14, so I'm not sure if you were asking me about that?
To (perhaps) clarify: My only certainty is that "it's complicated", and "anyone who claims to have a simple solution is probably overlooking oodles of edge cases", type thing...
But i would be seriously worried if someone who had made 900 productive edits had also made 100 inflammatory comments... (I realize/assume you were using "90%" as a placeholder number, but numbers are tricky beasts, 'specially in rfcs..)
I meant more time than edits. If there was a total of two days' acrimony in 6 months of productive and more or less incident-free editing. Casliber (talk·contribs) 04:07, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Yes, but, I was mainly making a semi-pedantic quibble over using any specific number.
Again, I totally get (and agree with) where you're coming from: context is critically important, and the layers of the onion go down further than many participants realize (there are dozens of factors that need to be considered and balanced, from editor-retention to conflicting cultural demographics that just need better translation/mediation (I've spent many hours trying to help a few older-ESL-grumpyseeming editors communicate with other editors who had been misinterpreting/misunderstanding some of their intended nuances)). Summarizable only as "It's Complicated!" and "Making it work well, requires constant effort from us all, not new strict rules"
eg. If someone were slightly uncivil for 18 days out of 6 months, that would have its own complications; as would the case of someone who was incredibly uncivil for 2 days out of 6 months.
(Do you want me to refactor our discussion here, and your question in the section 11 subthread, down into a collated thread in the section 14 area? (I will, if you agree it might be helpful.) I feel awkward just letting your question hang unanswered, in section 11 though!) —Quiddity (talk) 20:43, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello, Casliber. Please check your email; you've got mail! Message added 06:08, 5 October 2012 (UTC). It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Hey Casliber, given your FA efforts and your interest in music would you be interested in giving the OK ComputerFAC some feedback? It's got two supports right now and I'm close to supporting myself, but another perspective wouldn't hurt, be it positive, negative, or simply constructive. WesleyDodds (talk) 08:49, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
Hello, I made a entry, normaly I´m only on the german wiki and I´m realy shocked, what is going on here. I such things never happen to me on the german site and this is realy insulting.
here please. I´m not a nativ speaker so it not always so easy for me to find the right words. Thanks a lot.
--Brainbug666 (talk) 05:03, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
FYI
Hello C. You protected the List of incomplete or partially lost films on Sept 28. The IP hopping editor from California, rather than engage in discussion on the talk page, waited until the protection expired and went right back to adding the incorrect info. Looks like we might need to protect it again. I came to you first since you are familiar with the situation but if you would rather that I file another report at RFPP just let me know and I will be happy to do so. Thanks for your time. MarnetteD | Talk20:12, 7 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi there, Casliber. I just reviewed your DYK nomination for your expansion of Pyxis. You did great work, but it's not quite past the 5x threshold. (It's a little above 4x right now.) Maybe a little more content could be added? (For example, the history section is intriguing and could definitely be expanded if there's more information out there.) Salaam, groupuscule (talk) 02:41, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Aboriginal Astronomy
Hi Casliber - thanks for your note. Yes there's quite a bit more out there which Duane Hamacher and I are slowly trying to get written up. You can find some more stuff on www.emudreaming.com and you may find some papers you havent come across on http://www.atnf.csiro.au/people/rnorris/papers/papers.htm
Your extensive contribution to DYK and vastly improving the efficiency between nom and feature/credit in recent times has not gone unnoticed. It greatly improves the attractiveness of DYK and encourages editors to produce more content. Keep up the great job you do and thanks for delivering my DYKs!.♦ Dr. Blofeld18:38, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you so much for editing the article! I think the evolution part needs more source as I got it from a single source but I struggle to find more. --RexRowanTalk12:06, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Listen Rex, I am a bit busy and really need to spend some time on another article tonight, but there are some things that need doing with the Biodiversity of Wales article. There are some basic grammatical errors littered through it that really need fixing, and also Endemism does not mean what you have listed underneath it. It means organisms found nowhere else. Those segments on trees, plants etc. should be moved to the segments above. can you do that? Also there is a county list with flowers - should that have a heading? If you can fix all those things I will drop by soon after (just need to edit elsewhere for a bit!). Cheers, Casliber (talk·contribs) 12:35, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Finished working on the former Aperture masking comments at FAC. You may have some thoughts for final improvement. Two minor concerns:
I changed the word "comparable" to "superior" due to Dupree's statement that "With diffraction-limited resolving power Fl/D, where D is the telescope’s diameter, HST at 2550 Å can theoretically resolve objects 1.4 times smaller than can ground based telescopes of 4 m aperture, which typically (Wilson et al.1992) operate near 7000 Å." Sounds like "superior" is the more accurate adjective, but comparable is perhaps more conservative.
For the last comment that begins with "The image was taken at ultraviolet wavelengths..." I rewrote the sentence, but I'm not sure I addressed the concern raised by Hekerui. Take a look and modify as needed.
Yeah, the star ones are interesting. I was bemused that alot of astronomy articles have been rather dry, and the challenge of making the prose engaging yet keeping it concise is a fascinating one - interesting titrating this one some sort of continuum. Funny reason, I got a new car and lost the PIN to the stereo, so began idly listening to podcasts (ABC radio starstuff and jodcast) which well and truly rekindled interest in astronomy, as well as a friend of my wife's giving us an old telescope - was amusing seeing how impressed my kids were when I showed them Saturn, and Jupiter's moons. Anyhoo, my next cab off the rank is Triangulum Australe which I have asked for Peer Review - any input into the snazziness or otherwise of the prose would be much appreciated. Cheers, Casliber (talk·contribs) 23:11, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Will take a look some time. We don't have a telescope, but looking forward to showing my son the same things soon (he's 4, so probably not quite ready...) Should try and say hello sometime that I'm in Sydney... Cheers, hamiltonstone (talk) 23:33, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Episodic Mass loss
Hi Cas:
Great work on all those MoS edits! We finally crossed the goal line. Quite amazing!
I'm a little lost as to what to do now. I still see a few places that are cause for concern. What do you suggest? I noticed the first sentence of Circumstellar dynamics was significantly edited. Here's what I think is the reason behind the wide discrepancies in mass loss rates: there are two kinds of mass loss, 1) stellar wind and 2) episodic.
I read the Harper 2001 ref that is used here. It states: "If the radial density structure is assumed to be the same as in 1992 September,when HST /GHRS spectra were obtained, then the Fe II wind absorption features provide an estimate of the mass-loss rate of 3.1(^1.3)]10~6 M yr~1." Sounds like he's talking about the stellar wind loss rate. Episodic mass loss is the phenomenon associated with the huge plume of gas (i.e. Kervella pic). So I think we need to be careful here. Note it's the ESO 2009 article that quotes 1M☉ and references Kervella 2009, a more recent figure than Harper.
Sorry about that. It's the Ohnaka 2009 paper that quotes this figure. Here's the exact quote: "Red supergiants (RSGs) experience slow, intensive mass loss up to 10−4 M⊙ yr−1. Despite its importance not only in stellar evolution but also in the chemical enrichment of the interstellar matter, the mass loss mechanism in RSGs is not well understood." It's general, but bottom line is we just don't know the mass loss rate for Betelgeuse.
The upcoming conference looks interesting. I noticed two things: 1) it's being sponsored by the Paris Observatory and 2) Ohnaka and Harper are keynote speakers. These folks all know each other.
I know we wrestled with this issue prior to FAC, especially since Mohamed 2012 quotes the Harper 0.03 figure in his infobox. But as we saw from Mohamed, he doesn't provide the full spectrum of opinions that are out there. Given the uncertainty among researchers, I think we're better off conveying the same message for now and not rely on that Mohamed/Harper number, especially since it's already 11 years old.--Sadalsuud (talk) 08:04, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
Dang, the Ohnaka paper is frustrating too. It opens up with that statement....which is clearly a conclusion from somewhere else....and doesn't calculate anything within the article either...I agree that an 11yo paper is a problem, given it predates the more accurate Hipparcos etc. Maybe we should write to them? Hmmm...I must say I am a bit Betelgeused out at present, but it would be nice to sort out the sentence. Given all the researchers know each other, one gets the feeling that the ESO press release probably represents a consensus of sorts...as does the opening statement of the Ohnaka paper....Casliber (talk·contribs) 11:52, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
I can certainly understand being a little worn out with Betelgeuse. I've been there a few times myself. What I propose is I'll do a little rework and then invite User:Modest Genius to contribute his insights. He's been extremely helpful in sorting out some other problems in the past. His expertise, interestingly enough, is the interstellar medium. I'll keep you posted.--Sadalsuud (talk) 02:36, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
OK, I modified the first paragraph of Circumstellar dynamics. I think you'll like it. I managed to keep Harper 2001, but couched it differently, so anyone reading Mohamed 2012 will understand the conclusion that is reached. Also you might want to keep your eye on this post at Modest Genius. One last thing, will we be notified when Betelgeuse will be featured on the home page?--Sadalsuud (talk) 03:30, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
The timing sounds great! Regarding Rigel, I'm up for it, though I'd like to take a break for a bit and get the Corona Australis Molecular Cloud article posted. Hopefully this weekend.--Sadalsuud (talk) 21:20, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
The article Canis Minor you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within a few days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Canis Minor for things which need to be addressed. Tomcat(7)12:19, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
I appreciate your thoughtful oppose at the Arbcom clarification request. You nailed it with the last sentence of your comment. —Torchiestedits19:47, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
Your articles are usually solid, but do you realize that the statement, "with a mass equivalent to approximately 800 trillion suns," does not mean is has "800 trillion stars" that each weigh the equivalent of our sun? We can't count the number of stars, we can however calculate the mass of the system. The latter was done, the former was, unfortunately, featured on the main page, and is neither verifiable nor sourced. It's also probably not true. -Fjozk (talk) 00:46, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Ok - this was more of a speed-reading and juggling-too-many-activities/multitasking error than physics. If you're an astronomy buff, I am trying to apply some spit'n'boot polish to Triangulum Australe before sending to the snake pit....I'll be attempting to buff Canopus, Rigel and some other stars at some point, but probably not for a few weeks.....all help needed with them as my physics is really rusty.....Casliber (talk·contribs) 05:33, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
I'm an expert in mass, not astronomy. I probably don't have time to read a full article for errors, but if you have specific questions I can probably answer most of the physics. -Fjozk (talk) 19:41, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Ok. No real physics in constellation article, so don't worry about that one. I will alert you when one of the others has some physics-related material to look at. Cheers, Casliber (talk·contribs) 22:04, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Student work assessment
Hi Cas. Mike Christie, who is overseeing our outreach to North American university students, has asked at WT:MED for an evaluation of some student contributions to articles on NPD, personality and attitude articles. I'm pointing you to it in case you missed it and one or more of those topics interests you. That N. American educational program consumes a lot of the Wikimedia Foundation's time and money, so assessments from several interested med editors would be very valuable. No pressure: I'm just spreading the word. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 00:30, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
How many F-off's, tw--ts, cu-ts, insults and personal attacks does everyone get per FA or GA? How about 3 per FAC or 2 per GAN review and 10 for every personally nominated FA that passes and maybe 5 per GA that one nominates that passes. How about for new article starts...maybe 2 for a stub and 3 for a start class article and 4 or 5 if it is then placed at DYK? I would suggest that though it is hard to always remain civil, anyone making what appears to be minimal effort should have some restriction placed upon them. But, if you're going to say that everyone gets 1, 2, 3 or more percentage of their edits to be unconstructive personal attacks, then lets get that into policy so its binding for everyone. In looking over where Malleus seems to get himself into trouble...it's not in copyediting, where unless the edit summary is used to attack, the copyedit itself wouldn't be the issue...so examine talkpage and discussion page edits, you'll find that percentage is well beyond the 3 percent you mentioned. So whats the plan?...I offer the following as a reasonable interim clarification and admendment to the current and past case: (I say interim because I feel that an outright ban is inevitable) Malleus is banned from participation in Rfa and the Rfa process inclusively for one year. I don't know why this hasn't been proposed already.--MONGO15:30, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
In 2006 the arbitration committee desysopped me based on six (6) issues they found. In two of those issues, Jimbo Wales ended up blocking/banning one editor I had blocked (User:Miltopia)...In the chorus of opposition to the measure to desyop me, some editors that weren't even very fond of me pointed out that I had made over 5,000 administrative actions including deletions, blocks, Arbcom enforcements, reverts and comments to others in my administrative capacity...none of my deletions, reverts, blocks or actions were undone, overturned or even challenged save one. Yet they desysopped me anyway. I think they did the right thing actually. The reason I think they did the right thing was because I was unrepentant and did not offer promises to make amends for my transgressions. Malleus has been given innumerable opportunities to make even a small gesture of acknowledgement that he needs to clean up his act...and he won't apparently do so. But even here and now, I offer a reasonable clarification that is just though I feel is far to lenient. Otherwise, lets delete the NPA and CIVIL things and turn this website into an open forum where everyone gets to say whatever they want whenever they want and there will be no consequences.--MONGO15:59, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I fear that MONGO makes a very good point here, alas. The whole genteel system of barnstars, GA points, FA points and so on, gets rather tarnished by a new, rather less attractive, motivational regime where one knows that, if one contributes enough good material, or wins enough GAs, one gets to tell another editor one dislikes to "fuck off" or to call a less experienced editor "a stupid twat". OK, we might all shrug our shoulders and sigh, saying "what real harm does this do", especially when most of those concerned are pretty thick-skinned middle-aged men. But what message does this send out to younger editors? And of course we might make a slight faux pas and call a young American lady editor "a cunt". Not so encouraging for all, really. And what about thin-skinned wussie editors like myself, who are happy to add content, even to do a bit of research and fact checking, but only on condition that they do not have to expect a stream of verbal abuse at the drop of a hat? I'm sure there are lots of other websites that one can find where one can get verbally abused for far less effort. After a few years editing one can expect to get and ignore verbal abuse from anon ips, trolls, sock puppets and the rest.. but from a "good editor"? from "one of the best editors"?!! OK, rant over. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:47, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
I agree this isn't easy whichever way we go. I guess I note that folks deal with conflict in different ways - we have explosive people and we have some superficially people who can bear grudges a mighty long time. The enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend meme is one I suspected I saw a lot a few years ago, and I think is one of the biggest barriers to instituting change here (which needs to happen in a few areas) I think the latter profile has benefitted at the expense of the former. Ideally we'd have civility all round, and no drama anywhere but we do and we're all only human. I have more to write later but need to attend to other stuff. I have a big "Crossroads" type speech in my head..... Casliber (talk·contribs) 23:58, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
Regretfully, I am withdrawing my very fair suggestion for clarification above. It's apparent that doing nothing is the easiest choice even though it solves nothing.--MONGO01:20, 22 October 2012 (UTC)
When the voucher for CORE comes through, please give all our share to Gerda so that a German language copy of the Reiner Stach biography can be bought for a German library. Thank you.
Request
Hi there! I just took a look at your user page and it looks AWESOME! I've been thinking of changing my user page but don't know how. Can you help me change the section about my contributions? I tried to create columns but the userboxes won't let me do it properly. I aslo love the color of your userpage. Please, help me out. Do whatever you think is necessary to make the page look a little better. I would very much appreciate your help. Thank you! Nataev (talk) 07:21, 24 October 2012 (UTC)
