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Archives

Archive 1.

Requesting Another Lock be Placed on This Page

Request to Misplaced Pages Editors: Due to vandalism, once again, by those who like to remove information they don't agree with and who like to call everyone else the "devil's workers", I am requesting a temporary lock be placed on this page to discourage further vandalism. The last act of vandalism removed all links at the bottom of the article, which the vandal did not like. Thank you. 96.13.195.26 (talk) 02:18, 27 August 2008 (UTC) ¶ On Feb 17th 2011 this article is a mere shadow of what it was two years ago. Riplinger is, for better or worse, highly influential in some circles and thorough and detailed treatment of her is entirely justified. Sussmanbern (talk) 00:34, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Brooke Foss (B.F.) Westcott Vs William Wynn (W.W.) Westcott

B.F. Westcott and W.W. Westcott will never be the same person, no matter how many times GAR's supporters quote her attempts to make them appear as if they even could have been the same person. Like this article expressly points out, their birth and death dates do not match. Check them out. That should be the end of the discussion. The person calling themselves "Linguisticsclass-Student" has attempted to keep GAR's speculation going by posting material that argues with the actual documented fact placed in the article. This is contributing to the slander of an individual, which is puzzling coming from people who claim they pursue the truth. All a person has to do is check B.F. Westcott's son's book for themselves to see the absurdity of GAR's false claims. After dragging on and on the nonsensical B.F. and W.W. Westcott connection, she herself half admits in the footnote buried at the back of her ridiculously long book that it is "speculation" on her part. However, throughout her book, she leads the reader to believe the "Westcott" she mentions frequently (often without any first and second name initials) in conjunction with H.P. Blavatsky is B.F. Westcott instead of who it actually was: London coroner and avowed occultist W.W. Westcott. Even the books on the occult that GAR quotes from in New Age Bible Versions speak of it being Dr. W.W. Westcott who was involved with the occult world of Blavatsky, not Anglican Bishop B.F. Westcott who wrote many books that openly glorify God and his Son. GAR's main motive for distorting the factual information about B.F. Westcott and his identity is to protect herself, because she has lied about B.F. Westcott through her entire book. What cowardice to admit only at the very back of your book that your speculations just might be in error. Therefore, she has to forge a connection between the two men that never existed and she did it on purpose to present the wildly sensational and fictional accounts that have proven for her successful book sales. Until some GAR supporter comes along who has actually read the source materials that GAR purports to quote from in her books DON'T come around here and attempt to change the work that people who have their facts together have done here. Those who wish to further spread the lies, hate, and slander of Gail Riplinger are not welcome to contribute to this article. Any information that is not backed on fact that can be confirmed WILL be speedily deleted. If you really do believe in defending the truth, then prove it by checking GAR's information with the sources she has listed for you in her books. None of you have yet to prove from any kind of concrete fact that B.F. Westcott and F.J.A. Hort were any of the things you say they were (liberals, occultists, New Agers, etc.) instead of just quoting your mentor Gail Riplinger. Do some research, like the rest of us have. 67.142.130.19 (talk) 19:02, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Just as I suspected, ALL KJV/GAR defenders are not allowed any "positive" edits on this page. An example of "positive" is -She is smart. A negative comment is -She is a prostitute(THIS DOES NOT HAVE TO BE TRUE OR FALSE TO MAKE IT NEGATIVE). No moderators are keeping watch on this!! Everything in the previous paragraph by 67.142.130.19 are POV. ANYONE who looks at the handwritten letter by B.F. Westcott will undoubtly see the possible interpretation "W.W.Westcott"!!! There are only a few quotes directed at "WW" and they are footnoted. ALL other quotes are from B.F. Westcott!! She is pointing out things that New Agers and Modern Theologians have in common. These are the facts and according to Misplaced Pages rules YOU are to leave them unedited! NO NEGATIVE comments about LIVING PERSONS. If you want to bash her, go build your own web page!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Linguisticsclass-student (talk • contribs) 20:33, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

You know, you just DON'T get IT. You REFUSE to get it. You'd rather protect your ignorance of the facts by not checking into the facts, because those facts could just very possibly pop your bubble and prove that your support of GAR is not what it should be. It doesn't matter to you people how many times we state that we have checked the facts, you keep accusing us of using POV, bias, bashing, etc. You just won't check into things the way we have. We can back everything we say about the claims of GAR. Your comment added earlier was not worded in an encyclopedic manner and it wasn't positive either. It just tried to cover for the lie GAR has made throughout her book against Anglican theologians Westcott and Hort. It doesn't matter if B.F. Westcott's signature resembles whatever someone thinks they might see when looking at it--B.F. Westcott and W.W. Westcott were not born and did not die at the same time--they are TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE! Do you get it yet??? No, you enjoy vicious slander and that is why GAR's teachings, sadly, suit you. You just want to believe what you want to believe. A lot of people's sloppy signatures could resemble those of other people--so what?! That GAR thinks B.F.'s signature looks like it says W.W. is subjective but she uses it as if it proves fact. I have volume 2 of B.F.'s bio right here. Like GAR, you fail to mention the little lower-case T-appearing thing in between the two cursive characters that GAR imagines are W's. His son pointed out that he had sloppy handwriting, so no wonder "B.F." is illegible--no-brainer! GAR failed to say that the "Westcott" portion of his signature doesn't look like it says "Westcott" either--due to its illegibility. The entire signature looks more illegible (unreadable) than it looks like it says "W.W. Westcott." Looking at it, it is next to impossible to know what the signature says, except for his son explaining that the sloppy handwriting--which he says was difficult to read in most of Westcott's letters--was that of his father B.F. It doesn't look any more like it says "WW Westcott" than it looks like it says "B.F. Westcott." The point you are trying to make is pointless and you now it. You are here to stir up strife. If anything, your comments only reinforce GAR's dishonesty in using questionable information to try to prove a false fact that she has created and that sells her books. If GAR were actually just drawing parallels between WW and BF then she would not have made the bold statement that "Blavatsky mentions B.F. Westcott in some of her books." "Books" by the way, that GAR never gives titles or page numbers to so that her information can be verified. If B.F. Westcott was personally involved with Blavatsky in the occult, together as friends and closely acquainted with one another, then I'd want to know where I can go read about it in Blavatsky's book. But GAR has withheld such information and instead just makes a flat statement backed on nothing but hot air. The truth is, Blavatsky mentions W.W. Westcott, which has already been proven by obvious facts to be a different person. You rightly call yourself a "student" of Linguisticsclass. Your lack of logic, honesty, and reasoning is no different than hers. If GAR was only drawing a comparison, as you said, then why the long endnote to explain her knowledge that the information she placed in the book was not fact and just "speculation"?? Since you like the false comparison between W.W. Westcott and B.F. Westcott, why don't you go to the Misplaced Pages article for W.W. Westcott and try to make your case over there; show your parallels over there. If you want to spread false information about GAR that makes her look good and honest, rather than the liar she is in her books, go build your own web site and leave this Misplaced Pages article alone!! Beat your dead horse somewhere else. 67.142.130.19 (talk) 21:07, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

"No negative comments about living persons"? I think you misunderstand. You aren't allowed to spread SLANDER about a living person (or dead). Negative comments are allowed if they are verifiable, and the information in the article that you perceive as "negative" has references. --DearPrudence (talk) 02:23, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I am new to Ms Riplinger's work. Over the years I have often noted how a person's entire life's work can sometimes be negated by character assassination, I have suffered this experience myself in my work. Whether a person's work be partly wrong or not there is always something to be gleaned from it by all - those against and those for a person's work, lets not trash people's work because of our stance in regards to other peoples background -good or bad.Eg: if we were to discard J H Yoder's 'The Politics of Jesus' because of his personal life would we and the rest of society be worse off or better off? Lets look at what we can gain from this information that is provided by Ms Riplinger that we can all agree on. I too am concerned about how popular opinion seems (to me at least) to sometimes influence Bible translations (eg: would we even have inclusive Bible translations if there were no political correctness 'agendas' in western society?) and then how Bible translation can seem to affect theology or how the Bible is interpretated by simple Bible students like myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.111.130.254 (talk) 10:47, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

58.111.130.254: I understand what you are saying. I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt, but as for Riplinger, there is nothing in her books that is positive or that all can agree on--except if one doesn't mind lying, character assassination, or outright deception. I have checked large portions of Ms. Riplinger's book New Age Bible Versions and not one bit of information I have verified so far is backed by truth. Half-truth doesn't count. As for her quoting of anyone who disagrees with her, look out; she has altered every single quotation of Westcott and Hort used in her books. Perhaps, what a person can learn from all of that is not to lie about and slander others. Riplinger's false teachings have hurt my church and that is just wrong. Riplinger's books are a sad example of what can come about as a result of freedom of speech. Readers, beware. What I have learned from Riplinger is that KJOism has no solid foundation and that people like her are willing to lie if it means making their argument appear correct. As a Christian, I say, that is still lying and God hasn't changed his mind.67.142.130.19 (talk) 00:02, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Can we assume then that you have never lied? 'let those without sin cast the first stone'. Ms Riplinger is not the only person who questions the motives of Westcott and Hort.If you check this article you may be surprised, http:www.febc.edu.sg/VPP47.btm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.104.150.22 (talk • contribs)

Please do not attempt to change the subject from the problems about Gail Riplinger being addressed here. Just because all people have lied at some point in their life or because all have sinned has nothing to do with excusing any false teacher or any of their lies. Peter wrote an excellent chapter in his second epistle (chapter 2) concerning "false prophets" and "false teachers," yet he had also lied and sinned, but this did not disqualify him from addressing the subject. I don't care how many might question Westcott and Hort because I own most of their books and therefore know what they really wrote and believed. And if Riplinger is excused because everyone has told a lie or has sinned, making her wicked behavior of no big deal, then the same measure of exoneration can also be granted to Westcott and Hort, by their accusers, according to your weak argument. Please consider not listening to what others have taught you, but do your own research instead. Put some real effort into it and go to the libraries, look up the source books used by Riplinger, and verify her lying quotations and false information for yourself. In other words, please do what every other GAR supporter on this Talk page has been asked to do and do your own research before daring to argue with those who have. And if you are, by some chance (since you appear to be from the same country) the same person who posted just above who said "I am new to Ms Riplinger's work," then you are not as Unbiased as you claimed in your "edit summary" note.67.142.130.40 (talk) 03:16, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Well put. One can't excuse Riplinger's lies because "everybody does it". --DearPrudence (talk) 22:20, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes I can see your point - I agree with you -you don't seem to care what other people opinion's are. And no I am not a fan of Riplinger (at least until you began attacking me) and I had not made up my mind about her. But well, seeing as I am supposively bias already I might as well make the crime fit your judgment.I will start advertising her work from today. All you have done is make me wonder about your motives in attacking people who are simply making enquiries about Riplinger's work.You might have me won to your viewpoint had you taken the time to think before you attacked me. I had only heard of her from a friend early this month and was still making a decision about her work. But I think I would rather be a supporter of Riplinger than end up judgmental like you two. Riplinger would appear to be putting her money where her mouth is. I suggest you nasty people do the same and write a book to refute her claims. Or do you lack conviction? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.104.150.22 (talk) 10:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Who attacked you? How are we being "judgmental"? --DearPrudence (talk) 04:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

If you choose to support Riplinger without having done your own research into her claims, simply because of your perception of someone's reply to you, then go right ahead. If you are swayed that easily by something, your mind was most likely already made up. It is only you who are responsible for your choices and your actions. No one can force you to do anything you don't really want to do. There were a lot of excuses why people chose to follow Hitler, too, but did that make them right? No, they will answer for their choices and won't be able to blame anyone but themselves. If you choose to advertise the work of a liar, whom you have not verified to be a truth teller, then that is your burden, no one else's. To quote you, "let those without sin cast the first stone," is not a judgmental remark against someone who has taken the time to verify the gross errors of Riplinger's work?? Please, reread your own post. And then, please go and read that scripture in proper context. Your own words show that checking something before believing it is not on the top of your list. You "heard" about Riplinger from a friend. So have thousands of others who believe her lies and buy her books. And, pray tell, what were you doing to "make a decision" about her work? If you choose to support Riplinger over those you perceive as "judgmental" just because you don't like their reply or their "opinion" then you need to know that Ms. Riplinger herself is very judgmental. Be sure you check out her "magazine" Blind Guides, where she rips (no pun intended) into every single Christian who has dared to expose the error of her work in a scriptural manner. And calling people "nasty" isn't judmental, now is it? No, that's because you believe you are justified in your opinion, which is the only right one, even though haven't bothered to find out if Riplinger is someone worthy of the support of honest people. Unless you lack conviction, go and verify Riplinger's teachings before allowing your emotions to support her in spite of someone else. Real conviction checks into things. You won't be able to say that you were not warned.67.142.130.19 (talk) 02:27, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

You attacked my integrity, eg 'weak argument','put some in REAL effort'.'daring to arque','you are not as unbiased' etc. If that is not being judgmental I don't know what is. Your not seeing that you are being judgmental suggests to me that you lack insight when communicating with others. Perhaps you have been doing it for so long that maybe this is normal for you. Try to be a little more objective. Remember you can catch more bees with honey than with vinegar.I am not going to check out this discussion any longer as it obvious you like to argue for the sake of argueing. Tranquil Hombre —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.104.150.22 (talk) 22:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Your integrity was not attacked; you don't like that your "don't judge" argument backfired. If you are going to throw your "don't judge" argument into the ring, be prepared to accept the argument that is returned. Your post was full of accusation even though you have not done your own research to prove if Riplinger is telling the truth in her work. You chose to accuse people who have done their own research and you didn't receive the outcome you wanted. It was ok to share your opinion but it isn't ok for anyone else to. And, yes, your comment was judgmental. Please reread it. You didn't even address the part about the errors made against Westcott and Hort. Like most trollers, you pick and choose what you want to raise Cain over. Don't attack others just because they have done their homework and don't wish to support the work of a liar/slanderer. It boils down to your not liking the answer you got, and if you want to support a liar like Riplinger because of that, then that's your responsibility. Don't blame anyone else.67.142.130.19 (talk) 02:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I thought I might revisit this site just once more. While I found Ms Ripinger's work is interesting I don't think all her work can conclusively point to any reason her work should exclude the use of modern translations. I am satisfied to use translations such as the NRSV and others. Even early dated commentaries that I consulted suggest that not all of the words chosen for the KJV are adequate. Others can decide for themselves.

Vandalism and POV Wording is not Allowed on Misplaced Pages

Reminder: All information added to this article, and any of its edits, must have references to back it. Any POV wording, biased wording, removal of previous editors' references that back their information, weasel words, etc. are not allowed in Misplaced Pages articles. Do not cut and paste portions of the article according to your opinion or bias. Objective material has a source to back it and references must be given. One's own opinion does not count as a source or a reference. Just because the sourced information placed by another editor is not liked or agreed with is not grounds to change the article to suit one's own beliefs. Encyclopedias do not work that way. In other words, this article is not a place to defend Gail Riplinger simply because you like her, her books, and what she teaches, or because you just agree with her, unless you have factual sources to back up the information.

I am asking that another lock (accessibly by registered users only) be placed on this article the next time it is vandalized in the manner it has previously been.FannyMay (talk) 18:23, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the temporary lock on the article.FannyMay (talk) 19:00, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I fear we are at that stage again, as reason cannot get through to some people. Ian Prove to me that im wrong or leave the article alone! AnthonyMark00 (talk) 17:12, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

As I said earlier, if you actually read the Chick Publications website, they "Visit Gail Riplinger's website at http://www.avpublications.com" which indicates that Chick publications is the affiliate site. Ian.thomson (talk) 17:14, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh so now your ready to admit they are affiliates?! Ah well TOO LATE! I'm also going to let them know that you just deleted my vandalisation report about you from the article! I think it's best you leave me alone now! AnthonyMark00 (talk) 17:20, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

The entire point of your earlier argument was "Chick publications is the official site." That was incorrect. WP:EL allows official sites, but not sites that the person has worked with a little, especially in a spammy matter by someone who has only pushed a pro-Chick POV on articles. Ian.thomson (talk)

"but not sites that the person has worked with a little" Now you KNOW that is a lie! As it is clearly stated on the site how long & what extent they are her representatives. Furhermore you are still trying to attempt to ignore the fact they are reffered to in much of her materials making them a primary source of information. And including the HISTORICAL FACT they are her publishers is no where near it being "pro-Chick POV on articles." As they are NOT even mentioned, THATS the problem! (And you say you have no bias, but i cant help but wonder how you have come to this conclusion) Apparently I must also warn you that you are now the subject of a discussion for abuse, so consider yourself warned! AnthonyMark00 (talk) 17:49, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

If you want to mention them in the article, then do it within the prose of the article. With a citation to the reliable source that backs your claim. Don't just add an external link in the links section. Which criterion of the external links policy do you think this meets? It's not her official website. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:00, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Also, I don't know if you're looking at it or not, but just in case you aren't: you should read the responses you've gotten on your personal talk page, which is located here: User talk:AnthonyMark00. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:01, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

No this is all new to me & the interfaces are taking some getting used to.. I honestly didnt think wiki was this bad. I ask if I wanted to see what books she had written, where from the article can we get that? And I have had the time to look into this even further! Why is this not considered an offical site for her? As NO ONE ELSE IN THIS WORLD IS PRINTING HER BOOKS! (As far as I know!) AnthonyMark00 (talk) 18:10, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Archival

I have now archived most of the old discussions on this talk page, with the exception of the most recent topic (just above this one), which seems to be still active. If there are any other old discussions that you believe should still be here, feel free to move them back. Most of them are quite long, however, so unless you strongly feel that any should be reinstated as an active discussion, I would suggest you leave them in the archive (which can be accessed by clicking the link in the archive box near the top of the page). --DearPrudence (talk) 03:20, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

How much of this is original research?

How much of this article is original research? Do we have actual reliable sources listing these criticisms? JoshuaZ (talk) 21:18, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

JoshuaZ, the page references of the books used by Riplinger to misquote her subjects are clearly listed in the article. Westcott and Hort, for example, lived 100 over years ago. Their biographies, which she cites in her material and has used to change their words and make them say things they never said, are what have been used in this article to show what their biographies actually DO say. The largest part of Riplinger controversy is contained in her gross misquotation and misrepresentation of what other people actually said. Her own sources have been utilized in showing that she has manipulated people's words while claiming her account is the correct one. Also, the videos cited in the article can be viewed online by clicking on the link attached to them. So, yes, the "criticisms" are reliable. All one has to do is take the information provided here and check them out. You can view the majority of the books about Westcott and Hort, used by Riplinger in her books, at www.archive.org and check what was actually written about them.FannyMay (talk) 23:33, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

See no original research. Do we have reliable sources that have made these criticisms? If not, this is a synthesis and we can't have it here. JoshuaZ (talk) 14:55, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I believe this was already explained in my previous reply. However, I will explain once again and hope that it is clear. The information regarding Riplinger's misquotations of Westcott and Hort, as well as information provided in the Bio section, is NOT original research, and it is NOT opinion. Riplinger has used the biographies of Westcott and Hort in her book New Age Bible Versions. She has taken their quotes and words out of context (as is illustrated in the article), she has reworded what they actually said, and then placed her misquotes into her book, presenting them as fact. In other words, she has made up some very serious fibs about these men, and others, from which she has sold her books and made money. Riplinger's career as a "Bible protector" is marred by gross misrepresentation and the fictionalizing of actual events. Every example placed in this article that addresses her misquotations of Westcott and Hort, and others, is documented in the article with the page number of her book, where her misquoting occurs, and the page number of the sources (W & H bios, etc. cited by Riplinger in her books) cited by Riplinger, where the correct quotations are found. Anyone can easily verify that she has taken people's words out of context and changed their words. The recent vandalism to the article is what has placed "original research" into the article. The vandal's changes to the article lack references and he/she has been changing documented information from the objective to the subjective, as well as altering the encyclopedic style that is necessary for any integrity that Misplaced Pages hopes to have. The information I have placed in the article has references from the actual books. I gave the links where you, and anyone else, can find these books online and read them online. It is vandalism to an article that is not to be tolerated, unless cutting vandalism is no longer important to Misplaced Pages. In that case, then the entire article needs to be wiped and locked, otherwise the vandalism will continue and this site will go to the dogs.FannyMay (talk) 03:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Please read our policy on original research. Has anyone other than Misplaced Pages made the conclusions that these quotes are misquoted? If not, it is original research. If for example a newspaper or a noted historian or Biblical scholar reaches these conclusions we could quote that. But saying that she has misquoted based on primary sources is a synthesis and we can't do that. JoshuaZ (talk) 21:35, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

That's ridiculous. This is why wikipedia is such a failure. At least, it's one of the main reasons. Book A says this. Book B quotes Book A incorrectly as saying that. Now, who needs Book C to say that Book B misquotes Book A? Answer: an imbecile (i.e., wikipediots). There's "original research" and then there's "self-evident." All the great minds of all time would (and do) give Misplaced Pages a big fat F. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.128.41 (talk) 22:22, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree 100%. Something is "original research" because a third party scholar isn't being quoted to prove the obvious?? Book B quotes book A incorrectly, showing that book B is in error, and we need a scholar to tell the obvious in book C? This is Misplaced Pages's main fatal flaw.67.142.130.49 (talk) 01:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

The article would also be quite a bit shorter and more readable if we just replaced all these examples and analysis with "so-and-so expert#1 details many examples of riplinger misquoting and misrepresenting her sources.^ so-and-so expert#2 details many examples of riplinger making factual errors.^" Honestly, riplinger may be a key character in the kjv-only-controversy, but in the grand scheme, she's just another self-publishing nobody that doesn't deserve an article this long.   — Chris Capoccia ⁄_C 18:14, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you to Prof.Woodruff for posting the download links for Dr. James Price's letter to Riplinger and the article he wrote addressing the falsehoods found in the main arguments of the King James-only camp.96.14.193.57 (talk) 00:47, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

I SMELL SOMETHING FISHY I am a little confused. Click Publications as far as I know have been one of the main publishers of Gail Riplingers books for many years now. I added a link to thier profile of her but that has been deleted?!

Thats fishy, why would someone want to delete that!?! I wonder.. As I see some people trying to slip in attack sites as refferences, and a lot of them are hosted on the servers of a RIVAL BOOK PUBLISHER! Who's sales have been hit significantly by Mrs Riplinger & this whole movement!

I would like to make the Wiki authors (non Christian) monitoring this article aware that we may be dealing with some corporate representatives here.

And more evidence to this is when you look at the Wiki Page for Click Publications that looks vandalised & someone has failed to even mention their most poular selling book.. Gail Riplingers. It appears that the people and organisations against her & this movement have embedded themselves in the wiki editorial community.

Which is a shame really, to see so many professing Christians lying! AnthonyMark00 (talk) 23:36, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

First read WP:AGF and WP:Vandalism. You have no evidence that anyone here is working for a rival company, so don't be paranoid, and don't call good-faith edits vandalism (keep doing it and you'll get in trouble for attacking other editors). Second, Chick Publications is known for publishing works by liars and psychopaths, so anything they publish hardly qualify as reliable. Third, you failed to provide any explanation in your edit summary why you added the link, and you didn't bother discussing things with the editor who removed the link.

And finally, you do not know men's hearts as the Lord does, quit pretending to judge who is or isn't Christian. Ian.thomson (talk) 05:10, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

"why would someone want to delete that!?! I wonder.."...was there something unclear about my edit summary ? As I said, a cursory look at the articles on evolution and homosexuality shows that it's worthless garbage. It's far, far worse than that, but I shall not elaborate. This is an encyclopedia based on reliable sources (which for interest doesn't include sources like the Bible in any of its published forms, or any other Abrahamic religious texts such as the Hebrew Bible and Quran, unless the statement in Misplaced Pages is of the form "The Bible says X" i.e. with attribution to the primary source and not in the neutral reliable unattributed narrative voice of the encyclopedia). The chick.com site certainly doesn't qualify as a reliable source. External links must be "helpful to the reader". Read the guidelines (WP:EL) that describe the decision procedure editors should follow when considering external links, in particular, the WP:ELYES, WP:ELMAYBE and WP:ELNO sections. The link you added is to a site that publishes garbage. The info on the subject of this article, an article covered by WP:BLP, adds no value at all, and has zero reliability. The link doesn't qualify for inclusion via WP:ELYES or WP:ELMAYBE. The instructions are to link to the subject's official site, and that is what we do. And if you think I am religious in any way whatsoever or here to attack the subject of this article you are very much mistaken. I have this article watchlisted because is prone to disruption. Sean.hoyland - talk 08:05, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

You have highlited and demonstrated ALL that is wrong with this article in your previous post. And you are an example of the prevasiveness I have found so far from the editors here on Misplaced Pages. You talk about Misplaced Pages guidelines, so you know that you MUST to clarify to us exactly what the Chick Publications articles on evolution and homosexuality have to do with the FACT (Which you seem to have a problem with) that they are one, if not the main publishers of her books?

Nothing at all! And simply writing "it's worthless garbage." Is by no means CLOSE to the standards reguired to exclude article evidence.

I dont even understand how you think you can make that argument & try and twist the rules to allow you to get away with it?! You should know I'm not that stupid. Your argument is a NON argument as facist groups such as Combat 18 are listed on Misplaced Pages and there you will find direct links to their official websites and affiliates.

This is the case for many pages on Misplaced Pages. And you claim that you have no "dog in this fight" but looking back through your history shows another story.

I will also inform you that I had read though the guidelines before making any edits and find your attitude quite egotistical & ignorant to say the least. The link to the company that has been publishing her books are 'Official links' and as stated in Wiki policy are helpful to give the reader an idea of what the subject says about themselves!

If GR had 10 websites & affiliates we would have to link them ALL regardless of what you think of them!. That alone destoys all of your arguments. But I am not fooled by you and will be escalating this further if I can.

Normally I would say provide evidence or LEAVE THE ARTICLE ALONE! BUT YOU HAVE NOT EVEN DONE THAT MUCH! AnthonyMark00 (talk) 03:15, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

And furthermore have you actually listened to her lecture "New Age Bible Versions"? It's on YouTube, how do you think I first knew that they where her publishers? Because this company is refferenced to DIRECTLY in the content she has produced both in book & video! Which makes it PRIMARY EVIDENCE!

NOW I AM WATCHING YOU! Please do not change the article again UNLESS you provide EVIDENCE they are NOT her book publishers! AnthonyMark00 (talk) 03:26, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

As I've explained before, Youtube videos are not accepted as evidence. You also need to work on your attitude. Misplaced Pages is not a battleground, so quit looking for a fight. Ian.thomson (talk) 03:32, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

I've removed it again. I've already explained why. You can include external links that meet the WP:EL inclusion criteria. This link does not. We already link to her official site. Your link provides nothing apart from some text about the subject that could have been written by anyone, may be completely false like much of the other amazingly bigoted and ignorant material on that site, and is, for Misplaced Pages's purposes, not suitable for an article covered by WP:BLP. Try not to disrupt a charity, it's wrong. Follow the rules. And regarding "you MUST to clarify to us", who is "us" ? If you are connected to the publisher, read the conflict of interest guidelines and stop editing the article. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:34, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Your talking complete nonsense. What have I written that makes you think I want to fight? And what videos are you talking about? Her lectures or her quotes are not accepted as her evidence?.. See what I mean? There is no video that I have linked on that site but to the profile of their authors & Gail Riplingers page! As mentioned above the website is that of Chick Publications. Chick Publications have been one of the main publishers of Gail Riplingers work over the years. It is mentioned in much of her written & video materials.

And as an Official Site Affiliated with AV Publications. You have so far not demonstrated why this link does NOT meet the WP:ELinclusion criteria. You have not proven that this is NOT an official site!

"Your link provides nothing..." WHAT?! This is FAR from ridiculous! Why dont you take the time to do some proper research, take the time to verify who they are, so that you are not guilty of being a bigot & ignorant.

And I would argue that it is YOUR actions here that are in question. As they would be more advantageous to the likes of the Lockman Foundation & others! And as I stated before "We already link to her official site." is not a good enough reason to exclude sources that are directly quoted in her materials. (Check out the British National Party page)

I WILL REPEAT THIS ONCE AGAIN!! I ASSERT THAT CHIC PUBLICATIONS WEBSITE IS AN OFFICIAL AFFILIATE OF AV PUBLICATIONS AND GAIL RIPLINGER. AS STATED FROM HER & THEIR MATERIALS. THIS IS IN LINE WITH WIKIPEDIA GUIDELINES AS BEING AN OFFICIAL SITE OF THE SUBJECT AS WELL AS PRIMARY EVIDECE.

YOU CANNOT REMOVE THIS UNLESS YOU DEMONSTATE THAT THEY ARE !!!NOT!! AN OFFICIAL SITE OF AV PUBLICATIONS & GAIL RIPLINGER! It's as simple as that!

We need an administrator on this article. As your actions are malevolent! AnthonyMark00 (talk) 16:50, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

AnthonyMark00, if you actually read the Chick Publications website, they "Visit Gail Riplinger's website at http://www.avpublications.com" which indicates that Chick publications is the affiliate site. Now, if we were to treat you the way you've been treating others (and you must want us to treat you that way given that you surely know "do unto others as you would have them do unto you,") we could accuse you of being a corporate shill for Chick publications. We're not (unless good evidence comes up), because we're going to continue to assume good faith, something you need to learn to do. Ian.thomson (talk) 17:00, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

"Check out the British National Party page"...hilarious. Man, you're not doing yourself any favors with that one. Have you considered using larger colored fonts for emphasis ? It works well in illuminated manuscripts. Your quite shouty with the CAPS. Cut it out. Also, you'll note that NawlinWiki, an administrator, has dropped by, removed your vandal note and left you a message. If you want to continue editing the article you need to change your approach, slow down, read about the key policies and guidelines, and just follow the rules. That is especially important here because it is covered by WP:BLP. If you don't, and you continue like this, I can assure you that the privilege to contribute to this encyclopedia will be removed by someone at some point. Seen it hundreds of times before. Remember, there are millions of other articles. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:54, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

G.A. on Modern translations

Please don't add this back in, it's spurious and unsubstantial. Anunction (talk) 22:35, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

You have any concrete, verified proof that it is "spurious and unsubstantial"? Or are you just sharing your opinion based on how you feel about Riplinger?96.14.157.41 (talk) 17:31, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Edit: After a quick look I found, interestingly enough, that most of the criticisms were ripped word-for-word from an outspoken web-site opposing Gail Riplinger

Therefore, I will instead link to that web-page and delete all copied information as it is not unbiased. Anunction (talk) 22:56, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Bias is "prejudice in favor of or against one thing, person, or group compared with another, usually in a way considered to be unfair." If you think the information stated about Riplinger is biased in that it is "unfair" in your view then why don't you set yourself about proving that the information against her is incorrect, instead of just saying it is. You can't just remove material as you wish just because you think it is "not unbaised." If you think the information against her is not truthful or is somehow unfair then prove it by verifying what she claims for yourself. Do what those have done who have found gross errors in her material. Don't just talk about it, do it. Just calling it biased or untrue doesn't count. If you judge the corrections taken against Riplinger as wrong, when you have not checked the validity of her teachings for yourself, you too are biased. Bias is removed by seeking out what the truth is in a matter and then standing with the truth.96.14.157.41 (talk) 17:29, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I think the article is substantial and the information needs to be there for people to learn about what she is doing. Thebibleman (talk) 16:02, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

¶ Gail A. Riplinger has repeatedly and emphatically claimed that all English translations of the Bible, except for the KJV, are inspired by Satan and worked up by (and for) people who worship Satan. She provides no particular evidence for this, just vague attacks on various people involved with one or another version/edition of the Bible. Her writings are chockablock with errors, deliberate distortions, wild suppositions - anything but clear-minded evidence. Yet her books are considered, with the peculiar genre of Bible bookstores, to be best sellers. I think it is a disservice to people seriously seeking the facts not to provide some material that show the defects in her propaganda. Sussmanbern (talk) 03:51, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Beware of Bias

The latest editing of this article sounds very biased against those who are not King-James-only and overly supportive of those who are, making it sound as if Riplinger is just a victim without responsibility for actual errors and misrepresentations in her material. It needs to be rewritten with a far less biased tone.96.15.128.103 (talk) 02:31, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

The latest major edit is not biased for Riplinger

I removed most of the anti-Riplinger stuff because it was crowding up a biographical article about the woman. The exact nature of the controversies surrounding her work is explored in the outside links.

And speaking of links, I found it interesting that Riplinger's own website was not listed among them before I posted it; but just the site of one supporter amid a boat-load of critical links. Talk about biased.

As a point of fact, I in no way support her work or her contentions. I have opinions of the KJVO movement in general, and of Riplinger's contributions in particular, that are far from favorable. If anything, my version of the Riplinger article is still a bit biased AGAINST her, but I did the fairest job I could. Kael (talk) 04:48, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Kael, I understand where you are coming from. However, the part about her being "accused" of misquoting other sources seems biased in her favor. There is a large handful of people who have never published a book of Riplinger quote-critiques but have checked her quoting of other people in her books and found that she is guilty of misquoting, on a large scale, other people's material, wording, etc.; something known as slander. They are not so much accusing her as they are indicating the discovery of her gross misrepresentation of others. I am one of those people and have done a lot of work over the past 3 years verifying her misquotations with the actual sources she cites in her books. People such as James White, who did publish a book showing Riplinger's misquotations, are not alone in verifying her sources and claims. Those who have called her out on it are not attacking her but are defending the truth and the words and reputations of those misquoted by her. The KJV movement has enough controversy, without adding Riplinger's real controversies. Sadly, the misrepresentations in her books have done nothing but add fuel to the fire of KJOism and suck in a lot of gullible people. So, people are not attacking her but calling her out on something of which she has actually been found guilty.96.15.199.202 (talk) 17:01, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

BLP violations

This article is receiving some major attention on the BLP noticeboard. A couple of editors have tried to fix the BLP issues and have gotten reverted. I see that there are some editors with some very strong issues on this aricle, but please let me caution you that if the edit warring keeps up, this article is likely to receive some administrative attention that nobody wants.

That said, I would like for someone who cares about this article to please explain to me why there is a huge link farm in this article with links to negative sites, whenever I have never seen any other BLP with such a list. What does this contribute to the article and why is it so important to risk an edit war?Jarhed (talk) 04:19, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that link farm is about the worst case I've seen for a long time. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:33, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

<- Okay, I've looked at every site and cleaned it up. I've put a note in each edit summary. Ext links must comply with WP:EL. Sean.hoyland - talk 08:14, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

That looks lovely, but similiar edits by other editors have been reverted.Jarhed (talk) 08:43, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

I've added it to my watchlist. I'll try to keep an eye on it. Sean.hoyland - talk 11:54, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Me too. Reading the talk, there are some editors that have some serious concerns about this individual. I am fine with that, but I want to help them get their sources straight.Jarhed (talk) 23:35, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes, well, I've never heard of Riplinger, I know nothing about the King-James-only POV battles and I'm used to working in the Israel-Palestine conflict area of wikipedia which is about as heated as it gets...so this article is like a holiday. :) I guess the main thing is to make sure that the focus stays on Riplinger given that this should be an easily sourced BLP rather than it drifting off to become a WP:COATRACK for King-James-only POV battles...whatever they are. Sean.hoyland - talk 02:19, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

The fix to a link farm is "simple": If an external link is a reliable source, then brief information from any encyclopedic content at the external link can be incorporated into the article, and the link used as a reference. That requires effort, but is the only acceptable procedure for an article in general, and a BLP in particular. That is, the link farm needs to be removed. Johnuniq (talk) 04:05, 31 January 2010 (UTC)

Incomplete biography

This is a biography but has almost no information about Gail Riplinger except her birth. Is there a reason her three marriages and any children (if any) from any of these marriages are not mentioned? I don't think it unreasonable to expect these issues in a biographical page. Have they been added and removed or simply not added? Or is that information refuted? I don't think it contentious and does not even relate directly to her work and beliefs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.11.130.121 (talk) 17:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

People have repeatedly added material from an attack site and it has been repeatedly reverted as a WP:BLP violation. If you have a genuine policy compliant reliable source that contains information appropriate for Riplinger's biography by all means add it. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:30, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Since when is a site that gives alternative information on a biographical subject an "attack site"? That site happens to have documented info. D.A. waited has documented Riplinger's divorces. They are biographical data. Some keep removing that info here because they don't want the info known for fear it may smear their beloved teacher. Are you a KJO, Sean Hoyland? ### —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.147.62.193 (talk • contribs) 21:12, 10 September 2010

Your comment was removed. I have restored it to respond to your question here since you are on a dynamic IP. Please note the advice that was provided in the edit summary "If you would like to provide neutral, reliable sources, please do." Click on the highlighted words, read the policies and comply with them. Compliance is mandatory. Please also read the WP:BLP that defines what editors can and cannot do in articles and talk pages related to living people. Compliance is mandatory. The site you refer to is not a reliable source by Misplaced Pages's standards. It cannot be used and that is the end of the matter. This is not a negotation. Do not post it on this page or add it to the article. Now, since you asked me a question I will answer you. No, I am not KJO. I am absolutely 100% atheist and have zero interest whatsoever in the Bible, KJO or Gail Riplinger. My interest in this article is in ensuring that mandatory Misplaced Pages policies are followed and that Misplaced Pages isn't used as a battleground. Sean.hoyland - talk 09:02, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

¶ As the article now stands (April 2012) the only biographical data is that Gail Riplinger was born in 1947. Nothing else. Not her academic degrees or career, her non-religious books, her marriages (including the names - some of her previous books were written under the names of her previous marriages), etc. Supposedly this is to make the article "unbiased" - but in so doing it sweeps a LOT of negative info about Riplinger under the carpet. Sussmanbern (talk) 04:20, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Any information that doesn't comply with the WP:BLP policy has to be removed immediately. Editors who don't comply with the policy are usually warned and then blocked if they repeatedly add information that doesn't comply. If there's information about the subject published by sources that qualify as WP:RS it can probably be included subject to there being consensus for its inclusion. If information hasn't been published by reliable sources it isn't relevant for Misplaced Pages. So, it's really up to editors who want to include content to make sure that they get the information from reliable sources. If it turns out that there isn't enough coverage of the subject by reliable sources, the article could be nominated for deletion. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:47, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

¶ If this article is supposed to be the bio and not contain comments (including really negative stuff) about her writings and her claims, then there ought to be ANOTHER Wiki article devoted to her books or her propaganda. Or at least a piece that will send people to eye opening material. Sussmanbern (talk) 03:45, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

• Unassessed biography articles
• WikiProject Biography articles