Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 23:08, 12 May 2006

Discussion of quotation by John Howard of Australia on the "American disease" (the 2A right to bear arms)

You may find this discussion underway under Gun politics in Australia interesting. Also, see Misplaced Pages:Australian Wikipedians' notice board, under #64 John Howard's "American disease" quote from a domestic radio broadcast in Australia for alternative points of view on whether this quotation intended for Australians should be allowed to stay without addressing its context. Yaf 13:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Spanish missions in California

Feel free to put this on your user page:

Template:User Spanish missions in California

--Lordkinbote 23:33, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for updating the FIrearms text in the [[United States

I knew there was more to write but I didn't have the time, energy or interest. I figured if I got it started, someone else would come along and improve it.

Richard Cuba

Just dropping a note to say I noticed the mediation and took a good look at the issue out of interest. I appreciate your position and I think you're correct on the subject matter, you are also correct to say that;

Am willing to offer assistance in reaching consensus via dispute processes, for what it's worth --Zleitzen 04:39, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Bruce, glad you didn't take my comment to heart. Have you read the talk page archives for Cuba and Castro? You'll see what you are up against with your hopes for civilty, or consensus. I've considered various strategies over the last few months, but in the end I'd need to spend more of my week than I have spare to get anywhere with what I consider necessary - the development of a twin track entry. Too many people out there who feel it necessary to overwrite contrary perspectives. I do feel strongly that invoking Wiki standards/mediation/etc is a real waste of time. The regular warriors simply take a break and when the page is open again return to their edit warring, and meanwhile there are plenty of newcomers/passers by, ignorant of the page's history and debate, who plunge straight in with their asserted truths. My opinion is take it as it is and do your best to uphold some encyclopedic standards, which in this case do amount to describing the range of viewpoints on the subject. Don't expect more than small victories, and hope that they will accumulate. MichaelW 09:33, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Bruce. I appreciate your efforts to apply encyclopedia and wikipedia standards on the Cuba page. I believe that these immediate disputes will be ironed out, even if the dispute process is moved on somewhat. I will continue to support any efforts here.

What I'm also interested in is what occurs after this dispute is resolved. I'd like to liase with other parties to minimize the potential of such breaches of NPOV on this page in the future. It's an important aspect of Misplaced Pages, the internet and thus has wider implications.

It's striking to observe the difficulties some editors have in applying objective standards. Personally I have argued (and will continue to argue) at length with socialists and Marxist-Leninists etc outside wikipedia about the implementation of such ideologies. And I've been accused in some circles of being an anti-Castro reactionary (though I dispute that also!). But all of this should be left at the door when editing Misplaced Pages. My motivation is to challenge common misinterpretations and cultural bias, so we can present an accurate picture of Cuba free from dominant received wisdom. --Zleitzen 13:59, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Bruce, are you still interested in progressing the dispute process, and following the step towards formal mediation?--Zleitzen 21:32, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, sure. Doesn't mediation require that all parties be willing to mediate? I don't see that we meet that condition right now. BruceHallman 21:39, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Bruce, I've sent you an email, in the mean time I think it is worth considering a Rfc on Adam Carr. Do you have any thoughts on this?--Zleitzen 22:23, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Boo - I take it not a thing has expanded since the last war of words and insult flinging at the mediators? I see Adam and his buddies have stopped torturing the talkpage. --Scott Grayban 05:47, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Got AIM or Yahoo?

Have you got a IM ? We should chat about what we are going to do about these trolls in Cuba --Scott Grayban 20:03, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, no IM, but everybody is invited to email me, including you. My email is bruce@hallman.org and I try to respond quickly. I trust that Misplaced Pages, ultimately, will be fair about this. I regret that some at Cuba appear to feel that they 'own' the article and appear unwilling to 'play nice', collaborate and compromise towards a NPOV. Still all POV's must be represented including POV's I don't like. I am willing to give the benifit of the doubt, and they may still come around sometime soon. BruceHallman 21:05, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Template:RFM-Filed

Personal attacks

Personal attacks have only taken place where another editor has criticised you as a person, not your edits or pronouncements. When Adam stated that he could not begin to express his views about you, he was not making a personal attack. He then went on to express his opinions of what you had written. There are therefore no personal attacks to admonish. David | Talk 17:43, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, David, these people disagree with you. BruceHallman 03:29, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Michael W

Received this email from MichaelW saying that he's been blocked?

"You were blocked by PMA for the following reason (see our blocking policy): "Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by "MichaelW". The reason given for MichaelW's block is: "POV edits, article degradation, POV pushing, abuse of other editors, lack of good faith"."--Zleitzen 03:14, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Wonder why they wont blocked Adam and 172 then. --Scott Grayban 11:34, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, if you read User talk:PMA you see that PMA appears to be quite cordial with User:172

I have requested PMA to explain the block, but he has not replied yet.

And my reading of PMA posts in Talk:Cuba reveals his strong POV, which happens to be the opposite POV of MichaelW. I guess I was naive to expect that administrators should recuse themselves from disputes in which they have an appearance of conflict of interest. BruceHallman 14:52, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Please look at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Richardchilton for why i have such a poor view of Marxist POV contributors to the 'pedia - i have given them a chance as that page proves - also i have been here for many years and an admin for three - i am not some cluless newbie who petulantly blocks people. For what it's worth i did unblock him when told to by the Powers That Be. PMA 15:25, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

His open advocation of pushing a Marxist POV on the Cuba page - also see his own talk page for his use of phrases such as "capitalist fanboys" - as i said with my experience of people like Richardchilton and his sockpuppets and cohorts i am wary of lefist POV pushers - ditto for right wing POV pushers when it comes to the crimes and death squads of right wing governments of Africa, Asia and the Americas - i try to protect articles from both "The Communist Peoples Party" on one side and "The National Salvation Front" on the other as someone put it on here some years ago.

As for your second question - i do not know the answer i am afraid. PMA 16:07, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Hope you have the same attitude here. I have seen a few POV articles running lose here. --Scott Grayban 19:39, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Would you be able to ask MichaelW to drop his action against me please? PMA 07:01, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Your kidding right? --Scott Grayban 08:34, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I would very much prefer to move forward towards building a great article. Fighting about the past would get in the way of building a great article. I encourge everybody if they can, including Scott and MichaelW, to let any grievance drop and try again to find a way to collaborate. One thing is perfectly clear, fighting is a distraction. Therefore, I am not interested in fighting. Let's move on. BruceHallman 16:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for supporting the RfC on Adam. I know everyone wants avoid this issue at all costs but its the only way to get this article done and out of a dispute. I honestly did not want it to go this way and view Adam as a smart person. I just am tired of the constant attacks from him. --Scott Grayban 17:19, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Elections in Cuba

You reinstated the PV tag, but didn't put in the discussion page the arguments what in the first paragraph is not treu or neutral. Electionworld = Wilfried (talk 21:10, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Rfc

Hi Bruce, I think you need to inform Adam formally of the Rfc. Other than that I see no reason why it should close, whether Scott is banned or not. Regardless, I'll step up to be a co-signer if possible. I think the wider issues of Misplaced Pages conduct are too important to drop, they need to be seriously addressed. And eventually will be. --Zleitzen 14:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Email

I have just sent you an email confirming my address. I only give it out by request, just to cut down on the hatemail/spam etc. Thanks! Mystork 00:05, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Ban on Scott Grayban

You have just falsely accused me of initiating the ban on Scott Grayban. You must either produce some evidence for this allegation or retract it, or I will take the matter further. Adam 13:59, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

I apologize for any misunderstanding. I have edited what I wrote trying to make myself more clear. What I wrote, and what I intended to convey, was not to accuse you of initiating the ban of Scott Grayban, but to rather ask questions about the appearance of timing. As I tried to make clear before, I do not have good information and my repeated requests for information have gone unfulfilled. Regardless, the second hand information that I do have raises a question of appearances as to the timing, and raises a question of appearance of retaliation. I hope you join me in wanting the facts to be disclosed. BruceHallman 14:53, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

The timing was dictated by his decision to send me the email in question. Adam 00:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Before Adam Carr told you, I told you that I was the one requesting the block-- on multiple pages. Unfounded allegations are considered personal attacks. 172 | Talk 07:10, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Certainly you didn't speak with me so you couldn't have 'told' me, and if you wrote it to me I don't see it on my talk page, and I searched my inbox and don't see an email from you. If you wrote such to the general Misplaced Pages community, I don't recall reading it until you wrote it much after the fact on 04:46, 25 April 2006 (UTC), sorry. Regardless, I made no false allegation. I simply pointed out an odd appearance and asked for the facts. I still haven't been shown the facts about the evidence used for the ban, the source of the evidence and the timing. BruceHallman 13:03, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree that asking for a block, (which you claim to have done), and providing the evidence, (which Adam claims to have done) are significantly different steps in the process that led to the banning of Sgrayban. I apologized to Adam Carr. It appears he has accepted my apology. So, it is not clear why you now are warning me, (or accusing me?) about 'false allegations' when I made no false allegation and 'personally attacks' when I made no personal attack. This too appears odd, but can we just move on to something more constructive? BruceHallman 13:03, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Welcome to Esperanza

Welcome, TopazSun, to Esperanza, the Misplaced Pages member association! As you might know, all the Esperanzians share one important goal: the success of this encyclopedia. Within that, we then attempt to strengthen the community bonds, and be the "approachable" side of the project. All of our ideals are held in the Charter, the governing document of the association.

Now that you are a member, you might be interested in some of our programs. A quite important program is the StressUnit, which seeks to support editors who have encountered any stress from their Misplaced Pages events, and are seeking to leave the project. So far, Esperanza can be credited with the support and retention of several users. We have a calendar of special events, member birthdays, and other holidays that you can add to and follow.

In addition to these projects, several more missions of Esperanza are in development, and are currently being created at Esperanza/Possibles.

I encourage you to take an active voice in the running of Esperanza. We have a small government system, headed by our Administrator general, Celestianpower, and guided by the Advisory Committee, JoanneB, Titoxd and FireFox. The April elections have begun.

If you have any other questions, concerns, comments, or general ideas, Esperanzian or otherwise, know that you can always contact me via email or talk page. Alternatively, you could communicate with fellow users via our IRC channel, #wikipedia-esperanza (which is also good for a fun chat or two :). If you're new to IRC, please see the IRC Tutorial, which was written by one of our members. I thank you for joining Esperanza, and look forward to working with you in making Misplaced Pages a better place to be!

Thanks! _-M P-_ 18:13, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

BruceHallman, for your hard work in fighting for the truth in publishing, I hereby award you the Benjamin Franklin barnstar, which is given to those who have gone above and beyond the call of duty to stop Misplaced Pages being used for corrupt purposes. Cognition 01:54, 12 April 2006 (UTC)