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Taiwan was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones Date Process Result August 9, 2006 Peer review Reviewed December 13, 2006 Good article nominee Not listed September 4, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed November 21, 2007 Good article nominee Listed May 9, 2008 Good article reassessment Delisted July 26, 2008 Peer review Reviewed June 13, 2009 Good article nominee Listed July 14, 2009 Peer review Reviewed August 16, 2009 Featured article candidate Not promoted April 27, 2012 Good article reassessment Delisted Current status: Delisted good article

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Guidelines for the article Taiwan The following guidelines have been established by consensus and convention: Simplified Chinese shall remain in the linguistics infobox per Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style (use of Chinese language)#Simplified and Traditional Please do not add Simplified characters and tongyong pinyin to the country infobox. The topic of this article is the Republic of China although its title has been moved to Taiwan. Please refrain from adding "(Taiwan)" indiscriminately because this article includes historical information about the Republic of China as well as Taiwan.

A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on October 10, 2004 and February 28, 2011.

Tibet link on this page leads to "tibet area"

For some odd reason, the link to Tibet from the Taiwan page, leads to a scrubbed sort of watered-down version of what Tibet is...it's to a "tibet area" page, and doesn't go to the actual wiki page for Tibet. It goes to a page that basically says the Tibet area is part of China. It doesn't even vaguely hint that Tibet once was on its own, had its own culture, had its own language, etc. I find it disturbing that China just got done taking over Tibet, it is now trying to merge with Taiwan...and it feels like people are pretending Tibet never existed as separate from PRC. 192.33.240.95 (talk) 19:19, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

I agree that the link is a problem. The Tibet Area, Republic of China article contains very little information and all of the information could be included either the Tibet page or the Tibet Autonomous Region page if it is noteworthy. Readin (talk) 16:23, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Tibet appears to be specially defined in the constitution (like Mongolia), which is why it is mentioned here. That link makes sense in light of this. If however the information was included on another page, there should be no problem linking to that. CMD (talk) 16:30, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're meaning by "that link makes sense". You mean the link to Tibet or hte link to Tibet Area, Republic of China? I think the latter does make some sense given the context however the page it goes to doesn't provide much information and would be confusing to anyone who doesn't know much about it. Also, the Mongolia link provided in the same sentence doesn't go to the ROC administrative division but instead goes directly to the Mongolia article. I added a comment to talk:Tibet Area, Republic of China suggesting merge or delete but I don't know what will come of it - I don't know if anyone follows the page.Readin (talk) 17:29, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

For some reason, it's on my watchlist and your post popped up. I meant that the latter link, to Tibet Area, made sense, apologies. I'd merge it to History of Tibet and link there from here (boldly, as I also doubt many people watch that page), while describing it as the "autonomous Tibet province" at the mention here to clarify its status (perhaps slightly putting aside that it wasn't technically a province, as far as I can tell). The same could be done with Mongolia, with a link to History of Mongolia#Bogd Khaanate or something similar. CMD (talk) 20:05, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Is Taiwan now something that belongs to China?

At the first paragraph it says Taiwan is officially Republic of China, means that Taiwan is still under the control of China? It's not correct to say that, Truth to say, Taiwan now has nothing to do with China at all in respect to Politics, law. It has its own passport, ID to its citizen. People from Mainland wanting to arrive in Taiwan have to use their passport. If Taiwan belonged to China, the mainlander wouldn't need their passport.Wilson20072000 (talk) 03:47, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Read the text more clearly. Republic of China =/= People's Republic of China.
>People from Mainland wanting to arrive in Taiwan have to use their passport.
No they don't, Taiwan doesn't recognise PRC passports. Residents of mainland China can only travel to Taiwan on Taiwan entry passes, because of the complex relationship between mainland China and Taiwan. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 04:06, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Taiwan is de facto under a separate government from that of the People's Republic of China, which is what most people mean today when they refer to China in a contemporary context. However, the formal name of the state remains the Republic of China, unchanged from the days when the ROC was based on the mainland. wctaiwan (talk) 04:07, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Wctaiwan is right.Wilson20072000, you just need to know the reality is there are actually two Chinas, and Taiwan is one of them, who's real country name is Republic of China. It's just that Taiwan was unable to use it's real name due to pressure from the bigger China. Mistakefinder (talk) 07:09, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

The Republic of China was a national government of China, including mainland China and nominal Mongolia. After 1949, the Republic of China had lost the Mainland, and the Chinese Communist Party's People's Rebuplic China govners the Mainland, while Republic of China governs the Taiwan Island.Genhuan (talk) 05:15, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the Republic of China now governs Taiwan, which it acquired from Japan at the end of World War II. The question of whether there are "Two Chinas" is very much based on Point-of-View, however. Two Chinas is one interpretation of the current status. Another common intepretation is "One China" (and no Taiwan") which is the official position of both the PRC and the ROC. Another common view is "One China, One Taiwan" which sees "Republic of China" as an anachronistic name for government that no longer governs any part of China (except perhaps Kinmen, Matsu and some even smaller islands). There is also the view that Republic of China government is a foreign occupying government - I'm not sure how that would be neatly expressed, perhaps "One China, One Colony"? Readin (talk)

Shorten Intro section

Hi everyone, I recommend shortening the introducion. There's simply too much history detail to belong in the intro of a country article. The pre-history, paleolithic period through periods prior to founding of ROC in 1912 and takeover of Taiwan in 1945, should be moved into the history section. The intro should be brief about the current key facts about a country, but the intro has 4 paragraphs, 3 of which included prehistory of Taiwan, the period before the founding of ROC, and the economy and evolution into a democracy. I think the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs should be combined and condensed. This way, without too much unnecessary details, the important issue about Taiwan's unusual international status would be easily seen, and a reader can look into the history(or political status of Taiwan) if he/she's interested. Average readers go to Misplaced Pages for some quick facts, and I'm sure most (younger) people probably have never known there are "Two Chinas". That's why I wrote the Oct 9 2012 version so average readers will be drawn to that link and to read more if they're interested, and learn about Taiwan's unusual situation. I know the two Chinas aspect is described in detail in the History section and also partially covered in the intro lead, but the intro is way too detailed and detracts the reader's attention on 1)why Taiwan has a name "Republic of China", and that has a disputed/lack of recognition status, despite being a democracy and capitalist society. Mistakefinder (talk) 07:09, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

It's not overly long by some country article standards, but I agree in principle that the intro could probably be shortened a little, mainly by trimming and tightening some of the existing phrasing. However, one problem is that people keep adding more and more embellishments to it – as you yourself did with your last edit. On that "two Chinas" point itself, it's a very outdated, and arguably loaded, way of describing and looking at the situation these days. Taiwan/ROC is rarely referred to now as an alternative China. Not only that, but if it's intended to be a replacement for whole chunks of what we have now it's expressed a bit simplistically. N-HH talk/edits 08:01, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

It isn't unreasonable or surprising for a country article to have quite a long introduction, after all, a country is quite a broad thing, and there's much to explain in even the most basic of summaries. See United States, China, Russia, France, Germany, et cetera. Though, some of the history can be trimmed, since it has quite an undue weight within the intro (too much history, not enough economy/culture/geography/etc). -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 08:19, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

The island of Taiwan was mainly inhabited by Taiwanese aborigines until the Dutch period when Chinese began moving to Taiwan. The Qing Dynasty of China later conquered Taiwan in 1683. By the time Taiwan was ceded to Japan's in 1895, the majority of Taiwan's inhabitants were Han Chinese either by ancestry or by assimilation. The Republic of China was established in mainland China in 1912. At the end of World War II in 1945, Japan surrendered Taiwan and associated islands to ROC forces. Following the Chinese civil war Chinese Communists took full control of mainland China and founded the People's Republic of China (PRC) in 1949. The ROC resettled its government to Taiwan. In 1971, the PRC assumed China's seat at the United Nations. International recognition of the ROC has gradually eroded as most countries switched recognition to the PRC in the 1970s. Only 11 UN member states and the Holy See currently maintain formal diplomatic relations with the ROC, though Taiwan has informal ties with most other states.

I propose the above paragraph to replace the second paragraph of the introduction. The introduction isn't supposed to be a detailed overview of history so I've removed quite a bit. What I've left, I've left because I think it is necessary for having a basic understanding of what Taiwan is today. Readin (talk) 14:33, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

"Mainland"

Once again we have a one-person fight going on over a minor point nomenclature point. GOTR inserted "mainland" with this edit, and has since then edit-warred it in again and again over two other editors, while using abusive and incomprehensible edit summaries, eg here, here and here. This all gets very boring. Usual process is to argue the case on the talk page once an edit fails to get consensus and/or is reverted. Despite the claims about the motives of others, it's GOTR who rather obviously has the agenda here and the strange never-ending desire to impose their idiosyncratic views about what standard terminology is in the English-language world across multiple pages here. As ever, the rest of us simply want words to be used in the way everyone else uses them. If that constitutes having an agenda, or "making a political statement", fine.
As to the point at issue, in my view the addition is redundant and arguably an odd use of the term. It adds nothing by way of clarity - if it were there to start with, I would not remove it; if it were not, I would not add it. Given that it was not there initially, and given its redundancy, we can and should go back to simply "China". As is still the case, most real-world sources mean the modern country when they say "China" in this sort of context and do not feel the need to suggest Taiwan is part of "non-mainland China". We should do the same. And the claims presented here about the phrase "mainland China" are simply wrong - it is more often used to distinguish between HK & Macao and the rest of China, not between Taiwan, HK & Macao and the "rest of" China. N-HH talk/edits 10:07, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for raising this here N-HH. I was one of the reverted editors. I truly didn't comprehend GOTR's Edit summaries, so I raised the matter on his Talk page. In an almost equally cryptic response, I was accused there with "the term being falsely manipulated to your ends". I have no sneaky, manipulative goals here, just plain English, which is precisely what we're not getting from GOTR. He is demonstrating either incompetence, aggressive POV pushing, and/or deliberate obfuscation. The section of the article we're discussing is about Geography, not politics, so the games GOTR is playing are simply unacceptable. HiLo48 (talk) 10:23, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

There are plenty of sources that treat Taiwan as part of China. The government of Taiwan says Taiwan is part of China. Plenty of other sources treat them as separate. We had a big discussion with a three admin panels deciding that the names of the articles should be "Taiwan" and "China" however they also said that their decisions did not extend to the texts of the articles. To be neutral on whether Taiwan is in fact part of China, we have for a long time avoided using simply "mainland" (implies that China is obviously the main land of whatever country Taiwan is part of) and we have avoided using simply "China" since it implies Taiwan is not part of China. I'm not a big fan of the term "mainland China" since I think it leans slightly in favor of the annexationists, however it is the most neutral term we have available to us. Readin (talk) 15:14, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Regarding the comment that "mainland China" "is more often used to distinguish between HK & Macao and the rest of China". That technically true. Most of the time in the context of writing about Taiwan, "the mainland" is used rather than the longer "mainland China". English newspaper article often alternate between "China" and "the mainland". People in Taiwan usually just say "mainland". Readin (talk) 15:18, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

It makes sense to use "mainland China" because it's specific, and there's nothing wrong with specificity. Mainland China is a geographic term, and it can be used to describe the relative location of things. Mind you, literature, books, newspaper articles and published journals in Taiwan on occasion use the term "mainland China" in English and simply 大陸 in Chinese when dealing with geographical topics. For example, a scientific article about the breeding of carp would read "the climate of southern Fujian Province of the mainland is unsuitable for large-scale aquacultural farming to occur", and would refer to a specific location as "off the southern coast near the mainland" as opposed to "off the southern coast of China". -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 15:55, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

You guys are making it seem that "mainland China" is as obscure or ridiculous as "Cathay," as if we we wanted to say "The island of Taiwan lies some 180 kilometers (111 miles) off the southeastern coast of Cathay..." It is not. Using "China" geographically in contrast with Taiwan may be prevalent, but it is not exclusive. The term "mainland China" (or the "Chinese mainland") neither rare, nor ridiculous, nor obscure, nor redundant, and is used in significant frequency by reliable sources. In fact, our dear friend Britannica begins the article of the same subject with "Taiwan, Chinese (Wade-Giles romanization) T’ai-wan or (Pinyin) Taiwan, Portuguese Formosa, island, located about 100 miles (161 km) off the southeast coast of the China mainland."

You can surely argue that use of "China" instead of "mainland China" here poses no ambiguity and that brevity is a benefit, but use of "mainland China" here poses no problem either. I don't see what's the fuss. "Mainland China" in this instance is preferable because it is more precise and politically neutral, neither implying that Taiwan is part of China nor implying that it is not.--Jiang (talk) 16:13, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

"Mainland China" is a term used by some of those wanting to prove that the country Misplaced Pages has agreed to call Taiwan is really China. It is a VERY political term. And I'm still concerned by the incomprehensible language used by User:Guerrilla of the Renmin, and the still somewhat cryptic, insider style language used by some here. Too many involved in the debate on which is the "real China" seem unable to discuss the matter in objective, modern idiomatic English. And this IS English Misplaced Pages. HiLo48 (talk) 16:53, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

I was talking with someone a few crescent moons back at a gathering of students. For some reason the topic turned to Misplaced Pages, and we were asked what we thought of it. I remember one person describing Misplaced Pages quite well: "It's a place where a bunch of nerds on computers pretend to be experts, write articles believing that they're doing something great, award each other imaginary digital trophies, and argue with one another over silly things that only nerds care about". Looking in retrospect, there isn't a better way to describe Misplaced Pages. Are we seriously having this silly argument over this tiny, trivial issue? I thought us, as Wikipedians, would dedicate our time to much better things, such as writing articles, but I guess we can't run from stereotypes, huh?

HiLo48, first of all it's not always the case that there's a "super sekrit agenda" going on, you shouldn't always assume it to be so, and second, it's great that you're passionate about a topic, but there's a limit to all of us, and you're approaching (and passing) the line of "pretend-expert". "Mainland China" being a politically-charged term is your interpretation, and it doesn't seem to be shared with publishers of marine biology journals in Taiwan, nor Britannica (you know, the encyclopedia that isn't written by a bunch of volunteer nerds). Now, I'm not saying that you're 100% wrong and the cause of all woes, as I am well aware that things relating to the topic of Taiwan have always been drama-magnets and a lot of people are responsible, but surely people can realise that things are getting too silly here? -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 17:24, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

I did not say that it's "always the case that there's a "super sekrit agenda" going on". I did not "assume it to be so". And I don't claim to be any sort of an expert on China and Taiwan. Misrepresenting other's views is never helpful. Please stop it. And stop blaming me for anything! HiLo48 (talk) 19:59, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Anyway, I guess all these scientists must be dirty commies, huh? -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 17:39, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

What's even more shocking, the meteorology department of the National Taiwan University has been infiltrated by evil nationalists with a pro-unification agenda as well! -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 17:44, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

I thought my response to HiLo48's unusually cool-headed post on my talk page was quite unequivocal, and no, N-HH, you misrepresent my words yet again: I never claimed anything about the phrase "mainland China" other than to state its 100% inflexible (Hainan is irrelevant here) definition. GotR 20:13, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Let's just look at the words: if "off" means "away and apart from", which all disputants seem to be in agreement about, then saying that Taiwan lies "off the southeastern coast of China" definitely implies that Taiwan is not a part of China. On the other hand, saying that Taiwan lies "off the southeastern coast of mainland China" does not necessarily imply that Taiwan is a part of China. It's like how you can say that Quebec "lies next to the northern United States" without necessarily implying that Quebec is part of the United States, but if you say that Vermont "lies next to the United States", you imply that Vermont is not part of the United States.

Some of the misunderstanding here might arise from the fact that "mainland China" is a somewhat technical term, and if you don't talk to people or read enough in-depth sources about cross-strait relations, then you will just think of the simplistic dichotomy, "Taiwan and China". However, Misplaced Pages works on what we can document, and there is a wealth of written sources from all points of view which use the term. That's not to say that it isn't politicized: the DPP administration (2000-2008)'s education minister Du Zhengsheng ordered Taiwan history textbooks to remove the term, along with separating Taiwan history and China history into separate volumes, among other desinicization efforts. But again, using "China" rather than "mainland China" is the more biased choice, because unlike "mainland China", it forecloses the possibility of a valid alternate point of view (that Taiwan is a part of China, held not - we must remind ourselves - only by KMTers on the island but also by the PRC and the international community at large). Shrigley (talk) 01:22, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

OK, since we're in the realm of pedantry and I have five minutes to spare .. the precise text here is this – "The island of Taiwan lies some 180 kilometers (111 miles) off the southeastern coast of China". The context here is clearly the modern geography of the modern countries. As noted, most sources in that context will simply contrast "China" with "Taiwan". That should be enough for us too, but if we want to have a meta-debate: the addition of "mainland" is at best redundant – not least because we've already talked about "coast" – and at best politically loaded. I'm not sure it works as an argument to say (to summarise) "using simply 'China' by definition implies Taiwan is definitely not part of China, whereas using 'mainland China' is more ambiguous and hence more neutral". That seems to me, in fact, to sidestep the remarked-upon technical aspects of the term mainland China. Using it in this context is not like saying "Tokyo is 1000 miles from mainland China" or "Paris is 100 miles from mainland Britain", in order to exclude those cities' proximity to a closer offshire Chinese island of some sort or the Isle of Wight (please note I am not sure the exact geography works here, it's an illustration) – it is very clearly a bid to suggest that Taiwan is part of China as a whole. As with the China/PRC/Taiwan/ROC move discussions, we know all options can be read by some people as implying this that or the other. The only question, however, that needs to concern us is what terminology the rest of the word most commonly uses; which is primarily China vs Taiwan and mainland China vs HK & Macao (and any other PRC-controlled islands). You don't need to be a specialist expert to make that observation. Also, pls note that despite all that I'm not going to live or die by the insertion or absence of mainland – what is disruptive and pointless here is the fact that one editor made the change and then ridiculously lambasted anyone who disagreed with their action as having a "Taiwan independence" agenda. All that has done is led us to an edit-war and, er, talk page verbiage. N-HH talk/edits 09:50, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Great post. Your final two sentences especially. HiLo48 (talk) 10:07, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

It's amazing how we've managed to amass 10,000 bytes of text within two days over discussion regarding the word "mainland". Add a few references, and we could pass this talk page section for DYK. </joke> -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 10:56, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I would say it is the "my way or you die on the highway", hot-and-heavy attitude of those who insist that Taiwan is definitely not part of China (which is the core of TI), who happen to be completely ignorant ("I'm not sure the exact geography works here") of this subject matter and still pretend to be experts on nomenclature. They also marginalise a term which is commonly used (unlike the "ROC") and falsely label it as having connotations it does not carry (and by chance in the same manner that TI does) in order to meet their ends; again, this term is fully inflexible in its scope yet completely ambiguous in implication. GotR 18:05, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

LOL. Thank you for making your POV obvious. (And I'd suggest you avoid terms like "TI", unlikely to be understood by those who don't have preconceived ideas on this topic. I'm not familiar with it.) HiLo48 (talk) 18:33, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

This discussion isn't centred along one person; what GoTR might say on his own accord does not make your arguments all the more stronger. Address the main arguments laid above, and not the specific details of an editor. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 22:44, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

GOTR has also proved their continuing ability to abuse people, by describing them as "completely ignorant", especially when those people have not displayed any such quality. If GOTR thinks that my not being sure how far, off the top of my head, Tokyo is from China or Paris from the UK (or whether there are any islands in a direct line between those cities and the mainland coasts in question) and my using abstract comparative examples (where, of course, such details do not actually matter for the purposes of the argument) is evidence of complete "ignorance", let alone ignorance in respect of nomenclature relating to Taiwan, then the hat better fits on their head I think. Also, as ever they are missing the point. We are not having an esoteric, philosophical debate about whether Taiwan "is", in some fundamental sense, part of China or not. We are talking about what people commonly mean when they use those terms, and the term "mainland" China in such contexts and contrasts. On these points, they are simply wrong, even if they have still not quite come to terms with it. As they are on the claim that we are insisting on having things our way. They may not have noticed, or may not have understood, that both myself and HiLo have said we are not insisting on the removal of mainland, although we disagree with having it. By contrast, GOTR has edit warred it in over three other editors in the last few days. Again, the mirror is that way. N-HH talk/edits 22:57, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry to read that GOTR has apparently hurt your feelings. But he is not the only editor that has responded to support the use of "mainland China". Readin (talk) 10:55, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

They haven't hurt my feelings as such, simply behaved – as they often do – like a bit of a twat over this issue and also baffled me with the gall of referring to me as "completely ignorant" and accusing everyone else who disagrees with them of having some kind of agenda, which rather obviously has everything pretty much back to front on both counts. I'm happy to disagree reasonably with people over the use of "mainland" and, as noted, don't think it's worth fighting on the actual page over. That said, having this page on my watchlist is more of a headache than it's worth. The title issue is thankfully long resolved, and I don't add much real content to the page. By contrast, more than 50% of the edits I see made to it seem to consist of people scoring points or making the English worse (which btw is to acknowledge that many of the other edits are beneficial). As ever, people with good generalist history knowledge and decent English language/editorial skills – and precisely nothing in the way of substantive engagement or investment in the underlying politics – are squeezed out. Which to me doesn't seem to be a good way to build well-written, factually accurate and broadly neutral encyclopedia pages. But hey, that's Misplaced Pages. N-HH talk/edits 11:30, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

ps: hence, I'm taking it off my watchlist. Have fun everyone, especially those of you who actually are here to be constructive. N-HH talk/edits 11:32, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Competence is required. I am afraid that "good generalist history knowledge" is probably not good enough, even for Misplaced Pages. Misplaced Pages is not one big band wagon. Having a degree from SOAS or otherwise notwithstanding, we should normally say or edit things that we actually know about, not those that we don't. Unlike in the United States of America – where this sort of thing might or might not be more and better tolerated – over here in England, a land where in which unfortunately both of us live, we are traditionally supposed to know our places, and to only say things that we know nothing about when we are intoxicated (drunk), and within the confines of the building and premises of an English pub, an alehouse or a tavern – and having a rant of some kind. Misplaced Pages is not really supposed to be the place to "unwind yourself" after having some "bevvies", after returning home from a long day (Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages is not therapy). -- KC9TV 19:45, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Please don't misquote essays to attack other editors (especially one who has given up on this article anyway). As someone who considers themselves sufficiently knowledgeable on cross strait issues (as someone from Taiwan), I've found N-HH et al. to be far more helpful here than people on either side who insist on some exact presentation that fits their POV. wctaiwan (talk) 01:37, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

• This is not a personal attack. NO ONE can possibly specialise in the history of every single Country in the World. If you don't know the history of a given place in any depth, then you are surely incompetent. If you cannot drive a car, or even a moped, then surely you are incompetent in driving. This is a ridiculous and an ultimately false accusation. I am only speaking to him as one Briton to another fellow Brit, you know, in "our own language" (but not yours), except for the fact that you had also "stolen" our language, via the Americans, but only for you – partly because of language and cultural differences – to mistaken the context of my words! I am not responsible for your obvious mistaken interpretation! This is not very different from misinterpreting a Japanese person by applying modern Chinese meanings to the Kanji that the Japanese uses. Please see also Misplaced Pages:Competence is required. I thank you. -- KC9TV 15:58, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

• I think we can all agree that the status of the Isle of Wight is not remotely similar to that of Taiwan. It has since at least the year 1066 always been governed by the English and British Crown and the Church in, or of, England, ultimately as an integral part of the Kingdom or the Realm of England – albeit historically a semi-autonomous fiefdom within the County of Southampton, or Hampshire, complete with its own colonial-style head entitled "Governor". Furthermore, the word "Mainland" does not in fact necessarily imply either ownership, belonging, possession, sovereignty, suzerainty or overlord-ship.

• In some parts of the Island of Ireland, the word "the Mainland" still means England (E. & W.), or England (E. & W.) and Scotland, rather than the Continent of Europe.
• In England, "the Mainland" means France and the Continent of Europe.
• Upon the Falkland Islands, "the Mainland" unmistakeably means the Spanish-speaking parts of Southern South America, rather than England.
• In Bermuda and the Somers Isles, "the Mainland" means the United States of America, rather than England or Canada.
• In Tristan da Cunha, "the Mainland" means South Africa, rather than England.
• In Saint-Pierre and Miquelon, "the Mainland" means Newfoundland in Canada, rather than European France.
• In Malta and Gozo, "the Mainland" means Sicily in Italy.
• Both in the Bahamas and upon the Turks and Caicos Islands, "the Mainland" means Florida, in the United States of America.
• In Cyprus, "the Mainland" means either Greece or Turkey. -- KC9TV 17:11, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Hey everybody, this is my first time writing on a talk page but I just want to mention that during my time studying in China, I got scrutinized for typing a English paper using the terms "China and Taiwan". They say that I have to write a mainland in front of China. Therefore, the term "mainland China" is indeed a politically loaded phrase here in China. This makes the edit, to me, politically motivated, not to mention his insults in the form of 'SB' is very local Chinese. To enforce such an edit seems equivalent to a child's last respite for not getting what they wanted (a wiki article on Taiwan not titled "Taiwan"). Ikena (talk) 07:31, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

As if you were any wiser than a child for making a claim (that the term is politicised) without any substantiation? This is the precise equivalent to blurting the (completely wrong as explained ad infinitum above) answer on a free-response question to an exam. GotR 08:35, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi, GotR. Yet you remain heated on the agenda of adding a 'mainland' to the article. Don't deny that you do not have an agenda, with your harsh edit remarks, unwavering reedits, and apt name "Guerrilla of the Renmin". Anybody who is not intimate with China would easily not see the impact of the addition of 'mainland'. Your edit, on a whole, is fine, because after all, the wiki page is for the general public. I just can't abide you pretending that adding mainland is harmless in the China and Taiwan power struggle on this page. As I say before (which you find unsubstantial, but it happened to me nevertheless), I was asked by a professor in Tsinghua to add a 'mainland' in front of China because it mentioned Taiwan in the same sentence in order to form a distinction that they are not different countries. Ikena (talk) 09:12, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

There are a billion people who think Taiwan and China are the same country (yeah, we know they've been brainwashed, but we still can't ignore the beliefs of a billion people). Most nations official claim Taiwan and China are the same country (even if they unofficially behave as though they are separate countries). As part of WP:NPOV, Misplaced Pages doesn't take a stance on whether Taiwan and China are one country or two countries. This leads to a question of how to name the two countries. Do we call them "Taiwan" and "China" with the clear implication that Taiwan is not part of China? Do we call China simply "the mainland" as the KMT encourages to make it clear that the main part of the country is China? Do we call them "Republic of China" and "People's Republic of China"? Do we always refer to Taiwan as "Taiwan Province" or "Taiwan island"? Do we say Taipei 101 is located in "Taipei, Taiwan, China"? I don't like the term "mainland China" because I agree that it is not entirely neutral; it is slightly biased in favor of the Chinese nationalist position. However I haven't been able to think of term that is less biased. In everyday life I just say "Taiwan" and "China" because I look at the situation and see clearly two separate countries. But Misplaced Pages is supposed to be based on notable sources, not necessarily on the observations of clear-thinking individuals. So even though "Taiwan" and "China" are clearly correct in that they represent the truth, we can't use them because they fail the NPOV test.Readin (talk) 13:11, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm intrigued by KC9TV's observations about the use of "the mainland" in various contexts. Does anyone have any ideas about how we could find out more about what English speakers usually think "the mainland" implies? Maybe I'm the weird one for thinking it implies that for an island it implies the main part of the country. Or maybe For most Americans we treat it differently than people in various islands because we are most familiar with its usage in relation to Hawaii which is out in the middle of the ocean rather than just a few miles from a much larger landmass. Readin (talk) 13:17, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Dictionary definitions? But personally if you say something like "Taiwan is near mainland China", it sort of implies that Taiwan is part of China. Almost all of China is continental, after all. John Smith's (talk) 19:44, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

The term "mainland China" in most cases excludes Hong Kong and Macau. For example, in the economics world, you can buy Hong Kong stocks or Mainland stocks, and in the entertainment industry, there are "mainland artists" and "Gangtai artists". Andy Lau has never ever been described as a "mainland singer" in any biography, news piece or showbiz reel, and HSBC separates its mainland and Hong Kong operations very distinctly. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 02:07, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

I recommend using "Taiwan" and "People's Republic of China". Even though one is the common name and the other one is the official name, it is a less biased form and fits the NPOV test better. This form does not specify whether Taiwan and PRC both belong to "one China" or are they two seperate countries. Taiwan is part of "China" or not is a controversial issue, but that Taiwan is currently not part of the PRC is the truth.223.136.2.93 (talk) 16:16, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Anonymous user, please reevaluate what you believe to be controversial in this topic. The PRC claims that Taiwan is a part of the PRC. As far as the "truth" goes, you can say that Taiwan has its own government or summarize the history, but to say that it isn't a part of the PRC, well that might seem obvious to you, but it isn't actually an entirely neutral perspective, and its best to stick to factual descriptions and avoid such statements entirely on Misplaced Pages. This is a complicated topic, but my understanding of wikipedia's neutrality is that following common English language useage is the best solution when no alternative can be found which is completely neutral. - Metal lunchbox 15:23, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Request for Comment: Regarding WP:NC-TW

I have opened a Request for Comment regarding WP:NC-TW, which was part of the policy regarding naming conventions related to Taiwan, and Republic of China, but since been removed and marked inactive. There is no current policy placed in place of WP:NC-TW, so the request for comment seeks a replacement for it. - Penwhale | 06:52, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Split

It has been suggested that this page be split into pages titled Taiwan (country) and Taiwan (island). (discuss)

Geogpraphically, the former is the sum of the latter, Kinmen, the Matsu Islands, Wuciou, the Pratas Islands, and Taiping Island. Historically, the latter is much longer than the former. 14.0.208.97 (talk) 04:52, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

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