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::*The ] for the ] is overwhelmingly ]. We are not here to invent new onomatology based on original research. Also the bases are insignificant compared to the total area of the island. ]&nbsp;<small><sup style="position:relative">]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-5.2ex;*left:-5.5ex">]</span></sup></small> 22:36, 26 December 2012 (UTC) ::*The ] for the ] is overwhelmingly ]. We are not here to invent new onomatology based on original research. Also the bases are insignificant compared to the total area of the island. ]&nbsp;<small><sup style="position:relative">]<span style="position:relative;bottom:-2.0ex;left:-5.2ex;*left:-5.5ex">]</span></sup></small> 22:36, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

:::* It works equally fine even if the articles are named ] and ], or ] and ]. Vatican City, San Marino, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Monaco are all insignificant and should be ignored, if we are to apply the same scale. ] (]) 22:59, 26 December 2012 (UTC)


:* '''Against splitting''' I think that since there is an article concerning the North and the Republic of Cyprus is usually refered to as Cyprus(at least here) no splitting should take place.] (]) 22:42, 26 December 2012 (UTC) :* '''Against splitting''' I think that since there is an article concerning the North and the Republic of Cyprus is usually refered to as Cyprus(at least here) no splitting should take place.] (]) 22:42, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

::* So are you pretending the TRNC simply doesn't exist, or just something fictional? ] (]) 22:59, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

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Bias.

I genuinely beleive that this article heavilly slanted in the Greco-Cypriot's point of view. When I attempted to make the article more neutral, my edits were deleted (by a Greek, incidently). And, further-more, I was treated with patronization, and not with the dignity & respect a fellow Misplaced Pages deserves. Misplaced Pages clearly states that its articles must be unbiased, & Misplaced Pages is not a battleground, nor is it a propaganda journal.

For instance: - The article refers to the Republic of Cyprus as an "island nation", it is clearly no-more an island nation than Éire is. - The flag presented depicts the island of Cyprus in it, yet surely the 2004 neutral flag would be more appropriate? - The territory shown includes the land occupied by the RoC, TRNC, UN zone, & the UK bases; this does not constitute the true territory of the RoC. - The style of the article is not as though it was presenting the Republic of Cyprus as viewpoint/perspective, as it should; but as a fact, which it should not do.

Also, unrelatedly, the ethnicity descritions are incorrect: a Greek is, & only is, a national of the Hellenic Republic; & the Turkish are those, & only those, who are nations of Turkey. To describe one says they are Greco, & Turk, respectively. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.234.145.223 (talk • contribs)

I agree with the above. No real mention of EOKA's genocide of Turkish Cypriot villages in the South. Very slanted to the Greek perspective. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Popkid2002uk (talk • contribs) 10:10, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Popkid2002uk, you are free to discuss and edit the article. Create new sections on this talk page so the editors can address your concerns. HelenOfOz (talk) 11:46, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
I also think that we should include massacres committed by EOKA B. We cannot deny the truth about the atrocities committed by both sides during the war and it would be unbiased if we do so. But I disagree with the usage of proposed 2004 flag, as this was rejected anyway. The use of word 'island nation' also is a set thing. Cyprus has been referred to as 'Island nation' due to political reasons as it is accepted by international community that the Republic of Cyprus represent the entire island, therefore (even if not de facto correct) is an appropriate usage. In addition, territories shown on this page do clearly show the bases and territories not under effective control of the Republic (occupied north is shown with lighter green!). Furthermore, ethnicity is shown correctly. I rather prefer it to be called Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot than just Greek or Turkish (that would also be politically biased). You can change anything you want but please do not make this article a battleground and keep editing and deleting everything the way you like it to be. Ngparos (talk) 21:07, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
This article is written really very one-sided. There are many thing to add. Specially all the barbarian activities committed by EOKA are somehow hidden. I think the people are not objective and try to keep this point of view of the article by not letting people editing the page. Splitting is a MUST, too. The arguments on this talk page prove it as well. I will be splitting the article in the next days.Serhan (talk) 17:13, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
You have no consensus to do that. See discussion below. Δρ.Κ.  21:05, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Recent editing of images

I am very suspicious that one of the recent series of image edits is being done by one individual using more than one IP. I don't have the capability to investigate but I hope somebody else can. Thanks. — Glenn L (talk) 08:13, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

if someone changes a photo that you do not like you always have to do everything possible to eliminate the other? nice wikipedia, I'm in charge and that's it, good .... keep it up ...--85.237.212.60 (talk) 08:19, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Topographic map of Cyprus

Hello, I have created a topographic map of Cyprus in SVG format. I have used public data but sometimes there are some inconsistencies. Would it be possible for someone to check if it is correct? Thanks --Ikonact (talk) 21:49, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Area figure

A recent edit clarified that the area given of 9,251 sqkm 'Includes Northern Cyprus, the UN buffer zone, and Akrotiri and Dhekelia'. This answers a question I had asked on the Talk:page. However, I have some further points:

  1. what is the reference for the assertion that the area is of the island rather than the state? Given the confusion in the sources, it is not sufficient to rely on a single source giving a single figure with no context; there should hopefully be a reliable source which gives both the island and the state areas at the same time.
  2. can the infobox also include the state area? That would be a better match for the area_rank statistic, which as it stands is meaningless.
  3. the 2011 census figure excluded Northern Cyprus. What about the buffer zone and sovereign bases? jnestorius 19:33, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I already divided the area and populations into RoC, North and British bases but I cannot keep up with people constantly changing the information regarding their own political views. So I just gave up really. But it is true that if RoC claims politically that north belongs to the Republic, we should have information for the whole island, then divide it down to de facto information about south and north. Before people included north in the area but completely refused to include the northern population which I think is politically motivated. There should be detailed information regarding north, but if I do it, it will be changed soon Ngparos (talk) 13:28, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
In my experience, well-referenced statistics are less prone to edit-wars than unreferenced info or non-statistical, more "subjective" info. I don't really care which figure(s) get priority in the infobox, as all of them are available somewhere, with references. Maybe the infobox can crosslink to a subsection.
It's interesting that the Republic's statistical service's guide to districts marks the Turkish-occupied portion but makes no reference to the UK bases (or the UN buffer zone). It's not clear whether they were included in the 2011 census or not, or more generally to what extent the statistical service regards them as falling within its remit. jnestorius 15:32, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
As far as I know, because the British bases do not officially make part of the Republic as the independence treaty signed with Britain clearly states that Cyprus is independent except two bases which belong to the UK. Therefore I am not sure if RoC would even count bases in any of its statistics simply because they are not part of the country. They still try to county North simply because it makes an integral part of the Republic even if it had de facto declared independence from Cyprus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ngparos (talk • contribs) 16:01, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
I understand that thinking; however, the map I linked to does not show the bases at all. It might be that the Republic of Cyprus government downplays their existence to some extent, allowing the view to persist that they are leased or temporarily granted to the UK by the Republic, as US overseas bases are, rather than totally external to the Republic. I'm not suggesting that the Republic officially takes such a view, merely that it is less than eager (for whatever reason) to prevent misconceptions. That's just an impression I have, which isn't directly relevant to the article, except that if true it might help explain why statistical breakdowns are hard to track down. jnestorius 17:17, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, I was actually going to point that out too before we had a random power cut. Yes, it is bizarre that bases are shown as Cypriot territory. And that is not the case. I have seen many maps and sources where bases were shown as Cypriot territory and I am sure that the government is fully aware it is not a temporary lease, it is simply given to the UK in the independence treaty. There might be contemporary disagreement in public on that subject but everyone is aware they are British bases. However, also true that due to that attitude, it may be difficult to track down sovereign base populations. As a Cypriot, I have not actually ever heard population in bases being considered as Cypriots. Maybe British sources can point out exact statistics on the bases? Ngparos (talk) 20:34, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Economy

The Greek Cypriot economy, in other words the economy of the so-called Republic of Cyprus is bankrupt. This is confirmed by the President who confessed "bailout is a necessary evil". See the latest news here in "Cyprus Mail". Let us leave aside fighting on the past of the so-called bi-communal republic and edit the "economy" section of this article to make it reflect the present situation. --E4024 (talk) 11:13, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

First reactions here. Where are all those editors rushing to compete at editing in ESC final or the Olympic Games or the UNGA Resolution on the State of Palestine? --E4024 (talk) 16:20, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Human rights - Edit request

A user recently cleaned human rights and militarization issues from the article. However, the fact that we like Greek Cyprus so much does not change the fact that there is human rights criticism against the Greek Cypriot Administration of South Cyprus. See here the news of Council of Europe criticism of the said Administration, at the Greek Cypriot newspaper

Again the same rants against your fellow editors and about the militarisation of that tiny island, especially after the invasion by Turkey. I'm sure it would be preferred by Ankara and its military complex if Cyprus remained unarmed but what can you do. That's life. Even the Davids of today's world can try to defend themselves from the invading and partitioning Goliaths. And what do you think this tiny island, with a population less than that of many cities in Turkey, is going to do with its alleged "militarisation" which you try so hard to advertise? Invade Turkey? Reverse the effects of operation Attila? Please let us know. I mean propaganda can go so far. But you must also use logic and common sense if you want to make it credible and you appear to fail on the latter parts. As far as human rights show me a country in the world where prison overcrowding is not a problem. I'm sure if I cared to look I would find a lot more stuff about Turkey in this department including torture etc. As for the corrupt economy what can I say. Are you sure this is the only country with corruption in its economy? Δρ.Κ.  16:41, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Cypriot Costume

Does anyone disagree with creating a sub-section named "Costume" within the "Culture" section regarding traditional Cypriot costume? This could include information about traditional male and female costume, such as the Vraka for the former and the Foustani for the latter. Kupraios (talk) 05:59, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

If this is more important and urgent than the economic crisis (see upstairs, if you have not heard of it) let's do it at once... --E4024 (talk) 11:42, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
We don't need everyone focusing on one thing at the same time. I have no interest in writing about the economy of Cyprus as I am not very knowledgeable of it. Indeed I have read news reports about it but I'm in no position to choose information of relevance regarding economics. Kupraios (talk) 20:50, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Split the article

Many things are discussed once and again in WP. No reason not to discuss once more such a logical split request. Cyprus is an island which has two sovereign states and two other sovereign territories on it. The most logical approach should be a split between the island article and the one about the so-called Republic of Cyprus. --E4024 (talk) 11:44, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I dont see how splitting Cyprus is "logical", other to safeguard a strong Turkish Pov/claim, that Cyprus is not an island nation. 23x2 φ 11:51, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I also disagree with E4024. This would only impose the Turkish point of view which is that the Republic of Cyprus does not represent Cyprus as a whole island. Currently the only "so called" state is the so called Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus which in essence is nothing more than an unrecognized puppet state. 94.46.15.18 (talk) 12:27, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Dear IP user; your word selection of "puppet state" shows you are impartial on this issue and approach very objectively to the question. It is very useful to receive input from users who are not engaged with national positions. I would like to hear your opinions on how you see the existence of the two British sovereign bases (sovereign territories) separated from the rest of the island during the establishment of the Republic of Cyprus... --E4024 (talk) 12:45, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Ignoring your sarcasm,let me explain myself:

First of all, my wording is not that different from yours .("so-called Republic of Cyprus"). Secondly, a puppet state is a state that is is controlled by a foreign power. As much as the term "Puppet State" sounds not neutral and insulting, the so called Northern Cyprus is a puppet state. Its is solely depended on Turkey. Due to its lack of recognition, splitting the article would impose the Turkish POV (Turkey presents it as an independent legal separate state). The Republic of Cyprus, de jure, represents the whole island of Cyprus and as such it also joined the EU with the Northern part considered as not under the effective control of the Republic of Cyprus. The British sovereign bases have nothing to do with the discussion of splitting the article. If you do care what I believe about them, I believe that a EU member holding land of another one is entirely inappropriate. The big difference is that the sovereign bases are recognized territory of the United Kingdom in contrast with the so-called Northern Cyprus. 94.46.15.18 (talk) 13:09, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

And as the base areas are recognised as sovereign territories, as from the establishment of the "Repuclic of Cyprus" the island of Cyprus has never been sovereign on all of the island. Your words on TRNC I am ignoring for the moment. --E4024 (talk) 13:19, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
E4024, this attitude won't get you anywhere. The lack of arguments and your failed efforts to present the so called northern Cyprus as being independed make this discussion fruitless and there's no point on continue discussing with you. 94.46.15.18 (talk) 14:02, 26 December 2012 (UTC)


It has been suggested that this page be split into pages titled Republic of Cyprus and Cyprus (island). (discuss) (December 2012)

Split: The country isn't coterminous with the island. It doesn't have de facto control over TRNC, whereas the SBAs and the UN Buffer Zone are recognised. The same model of Ireland and Micronesia should be followed. 14.0.208.113 (talk) 14:37, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Some notes:
  1. Republic of Cyprus joined the EU as Cyprus
  2. Republic of Cyprus is represented in cultural events like Eurovision as Cyprus
  3. Republic of Cyprus is regarded in international football matches as Cyprus
  4. It is regarded by the international community as Cyprus
  5. The flag of the Republic of Cyprus has the whole island
  6. The British bases are only military bases, and do not claim any title.
  7. The Northern part is internationally unrecognized
  8. CIA world factbook regards Cyprus's government as the Republic of Cyprus

From CIA world fact book on Cyprus:

  • conventional long form: Republic of Cyprus
  • conventional short form: Cyprus
  • local long form: Kypriaki Dimokratia/Kibris Cumhuriyeti
  • local short form: Kypros/Kibris
  • note: the Turkish Cypriot community, which administers the northern part of the island, refers to itself as the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus" or "TRNC" (Kuzey Kibris Turk Cumhuriyeti or KKTC)


source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/cy.html 94.46.15.18 (talk) 15:48, 26 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.46.15.18 (talk • contribs)

Really hard to understand how people are trying to keep the article as it is. Almost half of the island is ruled by another government, Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. It is very easy to understand. There has to be a disambiguation page where you can go to island page as well. In fact 'island page' should be the default one when you search for 'Cyprus'. It's first meaning is its geographical expression. Please split the article. Serhan (talk) 16:37, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
I completely agree with 94.46.15.18 (talk · contribs) who advances really persuasive and coherent arguments. The IP arguments are in line with the previous discussion on this talkpage which has also rejected the split proposal before and nothing has changed since then. The arguments about the British bases etc. are not significant enough and have been discussed thoroughly and rebutted before and the rest of the world recognises and names Cyprus as Cyprus as the CIA handbook demonstrates. This is just another tendentious attempt at imposing a certain POV and is completely unacceptable. You cannot win arguments by reopening rejected proposals hoping people will get tired debating the same points. Δρ.Κ.  18:45, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Split The IP sock arguments are not valid at all. It is enough to look at this page to see how WP treats islands. Arguments like "the EU accepted Cyprus as a whole" are ridiculous not only considering the status of the TRNC but also looking at the discussions in UK about leaving the EU. When or if UK leaves the EU, the sovereign bases will continue to be EU territory? Patent nonsense. Again: The "Republic of Cyprus" was established on part of the Island of Cyprus, from the beginning; as the UK bases are "sovereign territory". It is not necessary or relevant if those territories have a government, president, flag, whatsoever. Split the island; "calling the ROC as Cyprus or not" is another issue. The Republic of Ireland is shortly called Ireland but does not occupy all the space of the island in WP. --E4024 (talk) 19:03, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Do not Split Ireland is split into Ireland and Northern Ireland which are both recognized. North Cyprus IS NOT. The bases are ONLY for military purposes. The currency there is the EURO(not GBP) and one can drive without passport control. The fact that the UN and EU regard the Republic of Cyprus as Cyprus and is presented as such in social events is enough to prove that splitting the article is baseless.

Afterall, the UN consensus 550(1984) recognizes the sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus on Cyprus 94.46.15.18 (talk) 19:24, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I completely agree with your very well made points anonymous. The mere mention of Ireland and Northern Ireland shows the inherent POV of these editors, comparing and putting on equal footing two recognised and legitimate countries with the puppet state of TRNC. Δρ.Κ.  20:01, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
I also agree with 94.46.15.18. Actually instead of splitting the article of Cyprus, i think we should consider merging Northern Cyprus article to this one. Britannica and CIA Factbook have one entry. 23x2 φ 20:10, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Recognition isn't the only criteria. We may refuse to recognise it's legality, but we cannot pretend it doesn't exist. The SBAs of the UK aren't part of the EU. Visitors can enter Andorra, San Marino and Monaco freely and use euro coins and notes there too and this doesn't make these countries part of the EU. 14.0.208.87 (talk) 22:20, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Against splitting I think that since there is an article concerning the North and the Republic of Cyprus is usually refered to as Cyprus(at least here) no splitting should take place.190.114.224.20 (talk) 22:42, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
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