Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 21:30, 30 December 2012

"It was reading the ultimate paragraph of this post: that finally convinced me it was time to go, yes, Hans is quite right, I am stuck in a vicious circle and there was no likelihood of things improving."

— Extract from Giano's retirement statement

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Molon labe!

No way

Don't let the turkeys win, Malleus. You are one of the most civil editors. (I can hear detractors asking: "How is that possible?" It is because Malleus has got ethics. You gotta stay and continue the good fight. Instead of the bastard-backward status of things, where you are harassed using the lame leaf, a big opportunity is being missed, namely, securing the consensus of the top content contributors, as to what is good and how to support it, and what is bad and how to suppress it, for maintaining and building the biggest and best online encyclopedia. The experienced contributors know. They are overlooked as resource in favor of policy wonks in yellow ties.) There are too many smart people here now (I think) to permit your banning, since that would take a good measure of stupidity (wouldn't it?). Ihardlythinkso (talk) 07:35, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

got ethics -- Made my day. We should be moving the failed "civility" policy to an ethics guideline, which would include such neglected virtues as intellectual honesty in arguments. --87.79.128.82 (talk) 07:38, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Come on, Malleus, Don't let the turkeys win. Hersfold is a bully. Don't let the bullies win. Listen, do not take ArbCom too seriously. How one could take seriously the arbitrators who support banning you, yet refuse to block a self-identified pedophile? 71.202.122.192 (talk) 14:51, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

I would retire if I were you. You have to deal with campaigns of harassment from young men who make Scottywong look like a model of civility and fair play. It is better to play guitar or write from another account, perhaps one of your many administrative accounts. Nice that nobody caught up to your having used all of those accounts to sway the ArbCom Election! Kiefer.Wolfowitz 21:13, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

End of the Age of Heroes

Is there room on any ship sailing from the Grey Havens? Kiefer.Wolfowitz 22:25, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

WP mission

What is WP's mission, does someone know and can they define it clearly here? (Is it comprehensive and good articles? Or is it to maintain "anyone can edit" above all other criteria? What exactly?)

What caused me to wonder what the mission is, is this comment by one of the participants in the Civility Questionaire run by User:Beeblebrox:

I really do hope that we can create a decent civility "policy" - I'd rather have a happy healthy environment and miss a few articles then have good articles and an unhealthy community. We can't meet our mission if we don't have a healthy collaborative environment. --SarahStierch

So, what is the mission, exactly? (It seems to me, that unless the mission can be defined without competing objectives, then that would lead to all kinds of problems, including impotence for doing any restucturing, that might be good for the Pedia.)

I presume the mission isn't a bunch of platitudes all strung together as a wish-list (which wouldn't be helpful and begs to be ignored and forgotten like most "mission statements" cooked up to sound nice), and instead comprises a real and focused objective. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 13:31, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Our mission is to empower a global volunteer community to collect and develop the world's knowledge and to make it available to everyone for free, for any purpose is the usual plain-English wording of Misplaced Pages's mission statement. The official (and legally binding) version in the WMF constitution is empower and engage people around the world to collect and develop educational content under a free license or in the public domain, and to disseminate it effectively and globally. The issue isn't the mission statement, with which I doubt anyone would disagree (even Misplaced Pages's harshest critics take issue with the way it operates, not with the objectives), but that your definition of "empower and engage" is likely to differ greatly from mine. As I've pointed out in the past, a strong argument could be made that the most effective way to achieve this purpose would be to sell Wikimedia's IP rights to the highest bidder (the wikipedia.org domain name alone would conservatively fetch at least $3,000,000,000 from Google or Microsoft) and invest the cash in educational programs. – iridescent 13:11, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

That solution would avoid the "Section 230" issue that currently keeps WMF right out of content matters, though the record of WMF-promoted "educational programs" so far is not at all impressive. Maybe they are practicing to get that right before implementing this idea? (Joke - they surely aren't) But there are plenty of less drastic ways of using money to upgrade the content if the will is there, which it currently isn't. By the way, I would of course be extremely sorry to see Malleus go, but am rather counting on him not being able to kick the habit after a few more days of plaster dust and turkey. After all, apart from the elusive Parrot, there's bugger-all on tv. Johnbod (talk) 14:28, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

thx for that. Yes, there are the platitudes: "empower and engage". (For Malleus's case, it's been more like: "impugn and enrage".) Has it ever entered anyone's head at Arbcom that all during the "whatta we do 'bout Malleus" deliberations, the behavioral problem-shoe has been on someone else's foot? (It's always been on another's foot.) "Bad words" are like shadows -- they don't show order, color, texture, or depth. Equally intelligent would be a dog chasing its own tail. There seems to be an expertise developed in driving away talent & experience. Did the mission statement take into account the unsavory side of human nature in large organizations? What then? (Let the wolves have at it?) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 14:26, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Wish you well

		Misplaced Pages Gold Watch of Retirement
		!! Happy Retirement Malleus Fatuorum  !! I would like to say that I am really sorry to hear that you are retiring from Misplaced Pages. However, I am also really glad you joined in the first place. Thank you for your contribution to making Misplaced Pages the best factual-based resource on the internet. In recognition of your service you are presented with the Misplaced Pages Gold Watch of Retirement. I hope to see you back here soon, either as a visitor or back with the odd edit or two. (If just to surprise some every few years!) Amadscientist

Gonna miss you being around (seriously)

	Best wishes
	(if you're still watching your tp) for the holidays and 2013 from a warmer place than where you are ;) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 21:47, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

	Merry Christmas
	May your Christmas sparkle with moments of love, laughter and goodwill, May the year ahead be full of contentment and joy, May the good times and treasures of the present become the golden memories of tomorrow, Merry Christmas To U & Ur Family. Jivesh1205 (Talk) 07:24, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Happy Christmas!

Tomcat (7) is wishing you a Merry Christmas! This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Happy New Year!

Spread the Christmas cheer by adding {{subst:Xmas3}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

--Tomcat (7) 14:13, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

'Tis that season again...

	Happy Holidays!
	Hope you and your family are enjoying the holiday season, Malleus! I trust your retirement is treating you well, or I expect to see you back here soon. :-) Ed  06:11, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is a corrupting project administered largely by teenage bully boys encouraged by the support of arbitrators such as Newyorkbrad with their "maturity" bollocks. I won't be back. Immature of me perhaps, but fuck it. Malleus Fatuorum 07:18, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Good to meet you your self - see my talk for "enlightenment" ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:16, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, right. (If only it was intelligible.) Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:54, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Hence why I stay out of the fray with my nose stuck in articles or, nowadays, the Signpost. :-) Good luck with whatever you decide, Malleus. Ed  04:42, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Malleus, don't leave: 1) the project is worthy, 2) you are a correcting influence. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 09:54, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

The project may once have been worthy, but it's now just a failed Internet "civility" experiment. There's a limit to the number of times an adult can be expected to tolerate being called immature by a bunch of fucking kids. Malleus Fatuorum 10:11, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

An "editor" recently used three accounts to remove the phrase train station from Misplaced Pages at the rate of three or four edits a minute, carefully disguising their sockpuppetry by editing in different geographic areas and using slightly different vocabularies in their "charmingly polite" replies to anybody who challenged them. I certainly wouldn't want to meet that person in "real life"- rather have someone swearing at me than that kind of obsessive psychopathic behaviour. Ning-ning (talk) 10:44, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Right. (Kids.) But no further sanction will stick, since there's a semblance of intelligence rising (risen). (At least I think so. It's an important beginning of change/evolution/reformation/rectification toward intelligence that you've already pushed far along, and so, you shouldn't leave now.) The kids are like bugs that go 'crunch' when you squish'em. Ihardlythinkso (talk) 11:12, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps, but give me a shout if it ever happens. I see that KW's talk page access was blocked last night. Stuff like that doesn't seem to be a step in the right direction to me, just more of the same old same old. Things need to change here, but they hardly ever do, which is why Misplaced Pages is in its death spiral. Malleus Fatuorum 13:27, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

And for other reasons too. Merry Christmas Malleus.—cyberpower _Online 14:33, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

On the bright side, there was a lot of criticism of the removal of TPA by the administrator from military-history, who had almost as much trouble with the block logging as the block policy.

It might be useful for some administrators to end their tool-use notices with the punchline "The name of our act is 'The Aristocrats'".... Kiefer.Wolfowitz 10:08, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Season's greetings

	Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas 2012! Happy New Year and all the best in 2013! Thanks for all you do here, and best wishes for the year to come.
	Ruhrfisch ><>° 16:46, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

PS Sorry to see you go - hope you are happy in whatever you do.

Just for you ....

Pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'cause there's bugger-all down here on Earth Pesky (talk) 12:41, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Ferret legging

Ferret legging, an article that your project may be interested in, has been nominated for an individual good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status will be removed from the article. AIRcorn (talk) 15:03, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to see you have retired, your contributions to the Good article project have been immense. I wouldn't worry about the reassessment, if the nominator does delist it using their current evidence I will be personally taking it through the community route. Was just letting you know as they forgot that step. Hope you are having a good holiday. AIRcorn (talk) 15:07, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Aircorn. All I will say is that that GAR is entirely without merit. Malleus Fatuorum 15:33, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Welcome back

Good to see you've ended your retirement :) PS- don't forget to delete your Retirement template. GoodDay (talk) 03:04, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

• I've simply had a few words to say about what's going wrong here, and I didn't add that ugly retirement template. Why do people feel emboldened to mess with other people's user/talk pages? Malleus Fatuorum 03:16, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
  • The template was added, then removed (just before I got round to doing so), and then the inserter insisted that you had given them permission. I thought that unlikely but couldn't possibly contest their reinstatement without being uncivil ;) - Sitush (talk) 03:22, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
    • It is still on your user page, btw. - Sitush (talk) 03:27, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
      • To quote Malleus, "You may do as you please with my userspace, as it's no longer of any interest to me." I interpreted that as permission to add the retirement banners.—cyberpower _Offline 13:18, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
        • So, you'll shoot him if he contributes to another article before the new year? Honestly, it would have been less dramatic just to leave well alone. I don't even understand why you'd want to ask that question when someone was clearly very annoyed. Still, what is done is done. - Sitush (talk) 18:50, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
    • In other news, I bought a silly amount of beer today (I'm organizing a Xmas beer tasting event extravaganza tomorrow) and, thinking of you two, bought an English ale for maybe the first time in my life. Let me check--it's Manchester Star. I hope it's good. Drmies (talk) 03:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
      • Glad to see that you're back, Malleus. ceranthor 03:32, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
        • Not had that one, Drmies, although I've sample much of their range. John Willie Lees beers tend to be quite hoppy. Don't chill it as cold as you would a lager. - Sitush (talk) 03:33, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
        • I'm not back in any real sense, just commenting because I've seen the back-stabbing evilness of those who see a retirement as an opportunity to advance their vendettas. I'll reconsider my position in the New Year, but until then if you see me write or contribute to another article then you have my permission to shoot me. Malleus Fatuorum 03:16, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
• Not being able to pass up an opportunity to have you shot, I shall wave the temptation of Priestley 1979, p. 48 in front of you. It matches up with what John Elsom (Elsom 1976, p. 154) says about Ken Campbell's Road Show (a "pub music-hall team") and the World Ferret-Down-Trousers Record, one of the acts in the show. Yes, this is the "JE" who wrote the Cambridge encyclopaedia entry on Campbell that you used (and who, incidentally, gave himself a nice little namecheck in the article on "criticism", that he also wrote, in the same encyclopaedia).

  If you want a less controversial subject than ferrets to work on, then of course there are always dead composers. After all, how could writing about something that's in umpteen other encyclopaedias turn out to be so amazingly difficult that we actually have less of an article now than we had a year ago? I'd mention the very dead surgeons as well, but those are a New Year's present for someone else.

  • Priestley, Harold Edford (1979). "The Ferret-Packers". Truly bizarre. Sterling Pub. Co. ISBN 9780806901343. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  • Elsom, John (1976). PostWar British Theater. Routledge. ISBN 9780710083500. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
• Uncle G (talk) 15:22, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
  • That's great Uncle--I can't wait. I still have two fossils on my talk page, as you well know. Now ferrets, that's fun. Drmies (talk) 18:11, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
    • As you ease yourself back into the groove, though, I'd seriously advise moving away from controversial topics like ferret-based sports and towards a subset of articles that are calmer and a little less politicised on the wiki - pieces on the Arab-Israel conflicts, perhaps, or something like that. :) Hchc2009 (talk) 18:20, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
      • DAMN! I knew I should have started a betting pool! The dramah was just not the same without you! Montanabw 19:29, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
        • You would have lost...:-) Intothatdarkness 19:31, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
          • Don't jump the gun - he's only removed the banner. "I'll reconsider my position in the New Year" means he hasn't decided anything yet. Richerman (talk) 19:48, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
    • Everyone, Dr mi estas is talking about the fossils at User talk:Drmies#What's in a name? it appears. Dr mi estas, it isn't me that you are waiting for. Now I have to go and make a pointed comment about Talk:Lough Neagh and petrified wood. Uncle G (talk) 21:48, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
  • Earlier on this subject someone suggested beatification as a possibility. Today would seem to be an appropriate saints day to choose. --ClemRutter (talk) 22:23, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
• As further temptation, I wave AP 1981 in front of you, so that you know that you can source the fact that Guinness Superlatives refused to accede to Mellor's request for recognition, fearing the RSPCA.
  • "71-Year-Old Man Is Squirming To Be Recognized". The Times-News. Hendersonville, N.C. Associated Press. 1981-09-07. p. 15.
• Uncle G (talk) 04:20, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

A request

May I please request you to write an essay on having respect as a more important virtue on wiki than friendliness? That way, other editors shall also benefit from your POV and we will be able to make the community understand why it also hold relevance. With luck, I hope that it becomes one of the policies too someday. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 22:07, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

I would submit that this whole issue isn't as simple as "respect versus friendliness." In fact, the whole thing is far more complex than that. Malleus is, as always, quite capable of speaking for himself, and I'd be interested in seeing his thoughts on your question actually compiled in one place. But when you mix the number of things that are active in this mess together (various cultures, backgrounds, educations, differing behavior patterns of 'generations' of internet users, grudges new and old held by longer-term users, a governance structure that is broken in far too many ways) you may find that there is no such thing as a simple solution. Civility is a handy stick with which to beat people, but it's not really an answer. Intothatdarkness 22:17, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is friendly enough to those who show respect. Malleus, a bad guy in this soap opera has taught me all I know about editing Misplaced Pages and I have never known him to be anything but friendly. Misplaced Pages cannot afford to lose good editors. Editors come and go, many become "established" but not necessarily good. Good editors have to put up with trivia and worse being added to articles they have researched and largely written under the banner of "improvement" by new or incompetent editors and are denigrated and accused of ownership when they object putting them at a serious disadvantage. Perhaps protecting good and featured articles so that "improvements" could be discussed might be a first step. But at the end of the day insistent and poor editors should be put in their place. Those who rate "friendliness" and "civility" above content are using the wrong website. Most people accessing wikipedia are not editors but readers wanting information, they aren't interested in the politics or how friendly the writers are, they want information. There is so much badly written rubbish here and it won't improve without good editors. Good editors aren't just parachuted in when the best are forced out. Editing requires persistence, the desire to improve and writing skills which some editors just don't have. It requires a thick skin and the ability to take on board constructive criticism. There are too many fragile egos and jealous souls out there and oh so many with poor comprehension skills. How anybody can say content is not the most important thing is completely beyond me. And please don't say professional, where I worked it was a means of silencing dissent. Those who put civility above content have no respect for the encyclopedia or the writers who contribute good and better content. Editors drop in with few edits expecting respect. Respect needs to be earned, not by visiting the dramaboards and interfering but by minding your own business, doing some writing or article improvement, showing you can take advice and showing respect for those who can. J3Mrs (talk) 22:40, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Troll Sockpuppet Comment removed boldly by TheOriginalSoni (talk)

So the IP has created an(other) account to troll from, what a surprise! Still not checking for errors though and no overlinking, that really is a surprise.J3Mrs (talk) 09:36, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

That particular troll account is now blocked. You all can help by starting an SPI and gathering all the information you have--I am not partial to as much knowledge as you all are. An SPI with CU information can help control this, maybe. Drmies (talk) 14:20, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

If this one is also a SP, maybe we should ask for an SPI? Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/MrsBettyGoebbels TheOriginalSoni (talk) 09:06, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

ANI

It seems you weren't properly notified about this ANI thread originally. ‑Scottywong| spill the beans _ 07:45, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

As I tried to say at ANI, "Scottywong should find other interests than gunning after Malleus and other editors whom he attacked before becoming an administrator and playing Eddie Haskell. "Just trying to figure out", sheesh!"

C.f. Black Kite's talk page. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 09:30, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Don't you think to inform about a "going nowhere" thread is kind of amusing? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:42, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes Gerda, ironic indeed, glad you have a sense of humour unlike certain others here who mistake good light hearted humour and banter as childish nonsense.♦ Dr. ☠ Blofeld 09:46, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

• Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Drmies (talk) 14:46, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

• Hello, you may not have noticed, but you were blocked and then unblocked. See this thread: Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard#Malleus_Fatorum. IRWolfie- (talk) 00:12, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

  Blocked again? Who gives a fuck. I once thought that Ironholds was sane, but I guess the WMF has corrupted him. Malleus Fatuorum 00:50, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

This is a mess. ceranthor 00:21, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

It's a bunch of idiots who'd rather walk around whistling, while swinging a truncheon, than write articles. The more of this nonsense I read, the less inclined I am to do any more work here. Parrot of Doom 00:25, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

• Which is why I try and avoid those pages. The writing is fun... it's dealing with the people that drains you. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:27, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I can only hope Malleus comes out of this ordeal intact. It seems some people are utterly determined to drive you away, which is just senselessness imo. ceranthor 00:32, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

• Malleus, you said something sometime about busybodies. Man you were right. Drmies (talk) 00:33, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
• Look above for "ironic". I stopped taking anything seriously here, it helps, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

• For some folks this 'going after Malleus' thing has become an unhealthy obsession. Unhealthy obsessions are bad enough when they concern the person who's doing the obsessing but here this also impacts another person (Malleus), as well as the rest of us who have to watch this idiotic drama and take away the intended message (which seems to be "people who create content better not get uppity and respect mah authoriteh!") Volunteer Marek 01:45, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

An interesting essay

I just found this essay which is very insightful, and timely, considering many current discussions. The essays content is only eclipsed by discovering the surreal irony of its creator. While I could easily have been duped to believe the range of negative aspersions freely cast against this editors clue, the reality of his perception and strong writing abilities completely rebut the clever fabrications which might otherwise prevail. I think you will be equally surprised to realize the self evident truth this essay exudes and perhaps inclined to admit he has been unreasonably besmirched by unfounded claims. Cheers, --My76Strat (talk) 10:28, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Mentioned at AN

This is to notify you that I have made a proposal at WP:Administrators' noticeboard#A serious proposal to defuse the Malleus problem which I hope may save a lot of unnecessary conflict and waste motion. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 11:53, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

So do you really

Do all of this Shit, I thought you were just rude. Darkness Shines (talk) 21:26, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't do any of that shit, so I'll be interested to see if Matthew finds himself blocked for that very obvious personal attack. Malleus Fatuorum 21:30, 30 December 2012 (UTC)