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Arbitration Committee

You don't know me but it's impossible not to know (something about) you here. Would you consider running for the committee this time please? You've got the experience, brains and sensibility, and the latter, particularly, is badly lacking there. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 00:51, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

• Actually I was just getting here for the same reason Bish. I saw NYB's post here, and after running through a few folks I complete my journey here. I think we all know that is where you should be. You have a wonderful combination of common sense, insight, honesty, integrity and it is all tempered by such a huge heart filled with compassion. You have the time served, you've suffered the time in purgatory, you've been witness to so much history - your insight would be invaluable at Arbcom. Please consider an honest run at it? I know the history of Bishxxx humor and all - but I ask this without any intent of jokes. Please think about it? Please? — ChedZILLA 03:29, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you both very much for the kind words, but please see my incidental self-declaration here. Also, my wikitime is simply too limited in recent years. My wikipatience always was. Lately, Darwinbish has been dropping hints all over the place that she wants to run, but I'm frankly not sure she'd have even my vote. A suggestion: you might want to go pester User:Worm That Turned to run again this year. He's a very calm, insightful, and experienced guy, who was beaten to the post last year by a mere 0.5% by Jclemens. IMO things might have been a little different here if it had been the other way around. And, importantly, Worm doesn't seem to be as burnt-out as the rest of the universe of calm, insightful, and experienced wikipedians, such as Heimstern, Floquenbeam, MastCell. At least a year ago, he actually wanted to be an arb. Sadly, that's getting to be an increasingly rare qualification.

P.S. By the way, little zilla, I saw a similar rousing call from you to RexxS. Good idea, except he's a member of the Wikimedia UK board.. I can't imagine he'd want that many hats, and I expect there'd be an issue of propriety, too. Bishonen | talk 10:28, 21 October 2012 (UTC).

I've thought for years that you'd be perfect for the job, and still do. Mmm. I understand about the time thing, though. It's a bit of a commitment.

I thought asking MastCell would be futile, but did anyway. (No response yet.) I'd feel a bit odd approaching the Worm because, not only does he not know me, I don't know him. Hopefully someone closer to him will ask. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 13:48, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

• I'll think about what you have said. And by the way .. I really don't care about any of the US vs. UK stuff...— ChedZILLA 14:14, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Since I've been mentioned, and in case anyone's wondering about me: Burnt-out-ness aside, I, like Bish, really don't have wikitime for arbitrating. I don't know how Risker does it. Wish I could, though; I criticize so much I really feel like I ought to offer my own services instead. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 14:46, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

What about this: you both take it on, and MastCell, and Carcharoth, and do your best with the time you have? It's got to be an improvement on the present situation, even if you have to decline a few marginal cases. My last word. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 17:28, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

My ears are burning, unsurprising since a certain lady knows I watch her page! Thank you for your kind comments above, I'm pretty sure I don't deserve them but I'll certainly accept them :) As to whether I'll run or not, I really haven't decided. I've gone through phases this year of really enjoying everything wikipedia and little phases of distaste for the project. I'm astounded at some of the stupidity at Arbcom, from both the cases presented and the comments made. Especially, right now, I wonder how it can turn people I respected into people who would use a request for clarification into a ban against such community uproar. Do I want to be part of that? Would I become part of the problem?

When I drive on British motorways, there are lots of idiots in the fast lane, in their fancy German cars, tailgating and acting like idiots. I would drive my Yaris and tut. Then, my dad went sailing for a month and left me his Audi to look after. I found that everything about the car encouraged that behaviour, the comfort, the power, the silence,... It all lead to me driving faster and more aggressively. Where does the line get drawn, when sensible people become idiots. Worm(talk) 20:36, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

You're very shrewd, Worm. This is a belated reply, but I've been mulling over it somewhat, and RL kept getting in the way. Power encourages aggressive driving, yeah. Mind you, some people of no special wikiposition (I'm heroically resisting linking that to a particular one-man lynch-mob I'm thinking of right now) seem able to get drunk on road-rage even while driving a Lada. Comfort and silence are hardly among the factors encouraging obliviousness on arbcom right now! Although on their own sekrit mailing list, arbs who are so inclined can always enjoy the comfort of crowding the Yarises off the road in silence/private without fear of any comeback (until there's a leak on WR or its successors, that is). I have some experience of that. All right, car metaphor breaking down… I don't drive anything myself, I'm strictly public transport + bike, and I like to think it hasn't made me any nicer! Anyway, generally speaking, users with good judgment are more likely than others to be elected to the committee, even though the selection has been known to work badly and even on occasion disastrously. (And those I will link! There's nothing new there, after all.) The majority of arbs seem well aware of the need for resisting the temptations of office, IMO. The worst part of being an arb, it seems to me, must be the culture of silence, of "never apologize, never explain", of presenting a united front — a culture that's somewhat unravelling before our eyes right now, but which was in full force when things blew up with regard to, uh, the other arb I just linked to, and which will no doubt knit itself up again. That is one of my own strongest reasons for disappointing the cheering multitude (see, two people!) who try to persuade me to run (that, and my enjoyment of being urged, and modestly pushing the crown away), not least because I've seen how it's likely to sour previous friendships. The sheer busyness plays a part there too, of course. Take me, I've had friends… and then they were arbs for a term or two… and then… well, I won't go into it. Some of them never post here any more, and perhaps wouldn't be all that welcome if they did. (But I don't mean you, Paul! You're always welcome here!) It's a shame when that happens. :-( Bishonen | talk 16:00, 25 October 2012 (UTC).

Good to know. Paul August ☎ 20:47, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

The cardinality of the multitude would have been greater if not for the rapidity of the wet blanket with which you slapped the idea down. (Understandbly so, as ArbCom is our own version of Wiki-22 -- we don't want crazy people to be on it, but I think you'd have to be a little bit crazy to run -- a massive unpaid time sink for the privilege of nearly non-stop abuse and aggravation.)Nobody Ent 16:17, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

(e/c) After reading his insightful comments above, I think I may vote for WTT whether he runs or not (surely there's going to be an involuntary write-in mechanism?). I also plan on writing in Bishonen, Bishzilla, and DarwinBish (all three) MastCell, and User:Immature Basophil, so that's 6 right there. I'm sure I can think of a few others who would initially refuse but could ultimately be forced at gunpoint to serve. --Floquenbeam (talk) 16:30, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Let's see, there's also User:Little Stupid, User:Darwinfish, User:Bish and chips, User:Gooch, User:Bearded Burro, User:Baby Tex and User:Floquenstein's monster. Now, THAT's an arbcom! Tex (talk) 19:32, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

And little User:Chedzilla! bishzilla _ROARR!! 10:03, 26 October 2012 (UTC).

Baby Tex will fit seamlessly, for sure. Proposed finding of fact: Horsh! And guess what, Floq, I have discovered by brilliant research that there is actually a User:Cat smell, although as you can see they (ho! hum! who could it possibly be!) don't have any userpages. And dead or not, User:Catherine de Burgh (the late) will live forever in legend and in song, and deserves all our votes. Bishonen | talk 20:09, 25 October 2012 (UTC).

• I am authorised to point out that you are mistaken Mrs Bishonen. Due to the happy miracle of cryogenics and modern science, Her ladyship is restored to full health and currently cruising on her steam yacht in the Balearics. As Misplaced Pages’s constitutional monarch and official head of state, Her Ladyship will be returning in December to appoint her Arbcom and permit their ceremonial kissing of her hand. She will also be making a Christmas Eve broadcast to the people of Misplaced Pages, and announcing her New Year’s honours list. Vera Corpus (Miss) (talk) 08:54, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Oh dear, Miss Corpus, I suppose in a way that's good news, but… are you saying that User:Ka of Catherine de Burgh is no longer active? :-( That's tragic. Bishonen | talk 09:56, 26 October 2012 (UTC).

That's good news indeed. I always thought the ceremony of kissing Lady Catherine's hand much more salubrious than the sight of the newly-appointed arbitrators lining up to kiss Jimbo's ring. --Famously Sharp (talk) 16:27, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm feeling a little more positive towards it at least, perhaps you have turned me! I've got some real life bits and bobs happening, it may affect things - but overall, I probably will run. I've heard the downsides, and I think I can handle them. Worm(talk) 11:34, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

• Thats very nice to know, Mr Worm, and I sure Her Ladyship will be very pleased to appoint you to be 2nd Wikipedian. As for you, Mrs Bishonen, I can assure you that Her Ladyship is very active indeed, but now that she's head-of-state and 1st Wikipedian, you can't expect her to descend and post on pages such as yours - allthough I beleive you did have regretable dealings with the previous, unfortunate incumbent of that high office - you may, however, post on her page and she may find the time to address you in audience. Vera Corpus (Miss) (talk) 11:52, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

• Why thank you Miss Corpus, though I do not expect Her Ladyship to concern herself with the likes of me. Indeed, I am personally hoping that she will time the unveiling her reanimated cadaver, the zenith of the social dilettante, to coincide with the Mayan apocalypse, whenceforth she can rule the encyclopedia with an iron fist. However, in general, my personal wishes do not come to fruition, so perhaps there will be difficulties. Worm(talk) 12:09, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

• Got it, Miss Corpus, the Ladyship is active. Spiffing, but I meant, what about the Ka? I fear this means we've lost her ? :-( Bishonen | talk 12:46, 26 October 2012 (UTC).

I feel this is my territory rather than that of Miss Corpus, who should not be opining on Her Ladyship’s spiritual matters. In fact, Miss Corpus should confine herself to her secretarial duties and her typewriter. At the court of Lady Catherine, we all have our areas of expertise and Miss Corpus should stick to hers limited though that is. On the subject of Her Ladyship’s Ka that belongs to the paranormal, and where the paranormal and Her Ladyship are concerned nothing must ever be presumed or assumed because both are likely to rear up behind you when you least expect it. Something Miss Corpus would do well to remember if she keeps interfering into my responsibilities and attempting to ingratiate herself with Lady Catherine. Rev Dr Augustus Deepthought (talk) 12:57, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm sure the Reverend Doctor knows his stuff, but it is most likely that the ka will have been reincorporated in Her Ladyship in order to revive her. If Imhoptep is anything to go by I think you should worry more that she'll be after various organs to replace those placed in canopic jars. I'm not sure all this zombie stuff is what we expect of the aristocracy anyway, they normally have the good grace to stay dead unless their resurrection is required for a ludicrous storyline in Downton Abbey. Yomangani 13:04, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Also, your duties seem remarkably diverse, Reverend Doctor, though I note you're edit-warring to conceal the fact. Perhaps Miss Corpus and Imhoptep are more reliable sources. Bishonen | talk 13:59, 26 October 2012 (UTC).

1. But I hope nobody who frequents this page is capable of the stupidity of supposing I'm referring to Malleus Fatuorum.

Your proposed motion

I have removed your proposed motion, as only arbitrators may propose motions. If you wish to suggest a way forward to the arbitrators, I suggest you make a statement instead. --Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 13:40, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

? I have not proposed a motion. That was RegentsPark. I merely called for a clerk to remove it. That was sarcasm. Bishonen | talk 13:43, 22 October 2012 (UTC).

tb. - Sitush (talk) 13:46, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Well that was very careless of me not to check the history more thoroughly. --Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 14:00, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Mmmmm..... yes. Bishonen | talk 14:26, 22 October 2012 (UTC).

Opinion?

Hi.

Can I ask your opinion about this, if you're interested? --Anthonyhcole (talk) 17:29, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Hm. Mmmmm. OK. Aren't you sorry you asked? Bishonen | talk 18:26, 22 October 2012 (UTC).

(P.S. Don't know what happened with the two saves. I seem to have got an edit conflict with myself.)

Not yet. I like having my mind changed. Answered there. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 18:54, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

More insipid than casual

Regarding the following text:

This user loves the sound of their own voice. You probably think that if you ignore them they might eventually shut up, but you reckon without their inflated sense of their own importance.

Inconveniently, the English language no longer provides its users with gender-neutral, singular pronouns. While the regal we, us, and ours might be applied to comedic effect, the pronouns they, them, and their are exclusively plural. As you have indicated you are on something of a vacation, I have ginned up some grammatically-correct options:

This user loves the sound of his own voice. Those who expect to win another's silence by ignoring him will be disappointed by this user's inflated sense of self-importance.

This user loves the sound of his own voice. Those who expect to win this user's silence by ignoring him fail to account for his inflated sense of self-importance.

This user loves the sound of his own voice. Anyone expecting to win this user's silence by ignoring him fails to account for this user's inflated sense of self-importance.

Patronanejo (talk) 12:39, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

You're mistaken, they, them and their are not exclusively plural. They were once, but they aren't now. Is it a rule that they're exclusively plural? No. Who says they are? Not the grammarians. Ignorant schoolteachers who formed their notions on the matter long ago, possibly. It's a pity that many people seem to get their notions of "grammar rules" from that class of schoolteachers (who are in the minority, I'm sure). They, them and their may not be ideal for referring to a single person of no specified gender, but they're what we've got. Going back to privileging the masculine pronoun would be regress. In this case, since I'm myself of a determinate gender (female) it would be positively weird if the {{User:Yomangani/Gabby}} template on my userpage called me "he". If you'd like to subst it and edit it to refer to a "she", be my guest, I've no objection. Bishonen | talk 12:45, 23 October 2012 (UTC).

To bluntly put it: neither me or Bish follow the rules that 18th-century grammarians came up with. Yomangani 13:14, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

i believe you might mean "neither Bish nor I".... apologies for the intrusion. kc15:33, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I believe he didn't, Killer. Are you not used to the Yoman's manner of making a point in a way that's suitable to the occasion? Note the strange word order, too: "To bluntly put it". (Though perhaps indeed he did mean to say "the rules up with which 18th-century grammarians came.")Bishonen | talk 15:45, 25 October 2012 (UTC).

Thank you for the invitation, but I'm not that fanatical--I was compelled to visit by a mention in Encylopaedia Dramatica. By no means am I going to impose my will on another's user page, but by no means am I mistaken. This is not a matter of pedantry, or an anachronistic refusal to accept language as a fluid medium. I have no objection to the casual use of the object pronoun me in place of the subject pronoun I (as Yomangani does above), but its opposite--the use of the subject pronoun Iin place of the object pronoun me--is insipid-sounding and wrong, no matter how many times you hear people trying to make themselves appear smarter than they are.

Although schoolteachers who know the difference may well be in the minority, they are not the ignorant ones--you've got it completely backwards. Treating the pronouns they, them, and their as though they were singular is not even acceptable on the pages of USA Today.

However, you deserve an apology for my inability to determine whether your username indicated a male- or female user--ignorance is ignorance.Patronanejo (talk) 13:24, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Patronanejo, following the Misplaced Pages has an article on everything principle... Misplaced Pages has an article on this phenomenon, singular they. Perhaps you'll find it interesting, even if you do find it insipid. Worm(talk) 13:31, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

"inability to determine whether your username indicated a male- or female" is a damn fine case for using singular "they".  pablo 15:40, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm not especially keen on singular they in formal writing, but it's generally accepted in common speech, and a userbox is common speech. Even the Chicago manual seems in agreement with its use in common speech (which is admittedly hardly the province of the Chicago manual). Heimstern Läufer (talk) 11:53, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Hmm. Shakespeare is also in agreement with the singular use. Bishonen | talk 12:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC).

Along with Jane Austen and William M. Thackery. August company, indeed. KillerChihuahua 15:29, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, it wasn't the province of Chicago until Chicago had the bizarre idea of getting some "language maven" who has only a hazy notion of English grammar to utter on English grammar. (See this.) Still, even the hapless Garner gets some things right. ¶ No, the place to look is the Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, which points out that singular they has been with us since Middle English. ¶ To anyone who continues to bleat that they is necessarily plural and he is sex-neutral, try asking (i) how it is that the extension of a term that normally has plural reference to include singular is grammatically (or logically or whatever) more heinous than the extension of a term that normally has male reference to include female, and (ii) about the acceptability of "Ask your father or your mother if he would like a ticket for the concert." -- Hoary (talk) 14:54, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

As ever rules are more subtle than the grammarians give them credit: in that case the construct would be "either of them" for singular and "they" for plural. Nonetheless singular they left the English language and returned, and now can be used carefully where needed. Rich Farmbrough, 04:40, 2 November 2012 (UTC).

Reciprocity

Bishonen,

Please leave a warning against SM for his personal attacks or stay off my page. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:20, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Your removal of a post to your page by Scott Macdonald where he undertakes never to post on your page again with the edit summary "Don't post here again" demonstrates your battleground mentality in a nice little nutshell, KW. As for me, do not be concerned; I'll only post on your page again if I have a block message to give you, not for any other purpose. Of course you will reciprocally stay off mine. Won't you? Bishonen | talk 23:37, 26 October 2012 (UTC).

I've had no interest in you since your last accusations that I and Lihaas were supporting the Sverigedemokraterna, and you in fact suggested a mutual interaction ban, which you violated by posting more ... oh how should I say this, ..., oh ,,,Bishonenisms. I trust you can supply the diff

ScottMacdonald wrote personal attacks. If he wishes to uphold civility, then he

To answer your question, I repeat that I've no interest in you, and if you stop the questions and snide comments, I'll certainly resume the no interaction ban you originally proposed, and which I've kept. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:46, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

I guess a polite suggestion didn't impress you. Perhaps you'll understand this language: don't post on my page again. Bishonen | talk 12:27, 27 October 2012 (UTC).

Harumph!

Just saw this. What am I, chopped liver? Tex (talk) 14:19, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

You're Bishzilla's friend. But seriously, you haven't been around much, have you? Bishonen | talk 15:49, 29 October 2012 (UTC).

I'm usually lurking in the background somewhere. However, RL things happening at the moment may lead to me being gone for good soon. I'll e-mail ya later. I was just hoping for more friends to come by and say hello since you were feeling lonely or something. Tex (talk) 12:33, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

(*disengages cloaking device*) I'll come by and say hello. "Hello, Bish! Hello Tex!" (*re-engages cloaking device*) --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:46, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Floq!  :) Tex (talk) 15:10, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Well despite all the hints, I'm not leaving. I'd have spoken up sooner, but I only just got back from two days in London, training and interviewing. I'll bring you a present later. --RexxS (talk) 21:49, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Shaukat Ali Abdul Ghafoor (2nd nomination)

Hey, Bishonen, just FYI: I deleted the page per author request (and G11, really) and closed the AfD, but I'ma pass on salting it myself, at least for now. It's only been made twice since 2010, so unless he re-creates it again, I don't think it's a huge deal. Your thoughts? EDIT: hmmm, although now that I look at it, it's pretty much the same stuff that was deleted from the first AfD... Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 21:01, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

Oh, no, I expect you're right. I don't feel strongly at all about salting it. I just thought since the subject isn't notable, there's zero chance of a sensible (non-vanity) article ever being written about it. But I understand from the history that the author removed a speedy template from the article. Hopefully we'll be able to simply speedy it if it should come back a third time. Bishonen | talk 21:17, 31 October 2012 (UTC).

Alternative

As an Ent who is always looking for opportunities to improve his cleverness, do you have a preferred synonym/replacement/enhancement for the time honored "rope" concept? Nobody Ent 02:39, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, no, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Now look what you've done, you've made me use a cliché to counter yours. Have you studied the case of Penyulap? The idea of setting him up and then lying in wait for missteps is crass in and of itself. The particular problem with using the metaphor of "enough rope" is that it's an attempt to dress up an unattractive idea in a would-be clever and colourful metaphor. There are too many "time-honoured" concepts knocking about Misplaced Pages, handily enshrined in essay shortcuts and offering a cheap sheen to thoughtless discourse. The popular, perhaps once witty, "Drop the stick and back slowly away from the horse carcass comes to mind. Funny how often there's a dimension of violence involved, but that's a thought for another day. Bishonen | talk 10:36, 1 November 2012 (UTC).

Quite independently (because I've only just noticed these discussions...) I've just started writing a little essay on the and other contradictions on wikipedia. User:Worm That Turned/Contradictions Worm(talk) 11:05, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Are you saying Penyulap's tpa should have not been restored? Nobody Ent 11:14, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

(Ha, did you skip over my first sentence on Elen's page to get to the bit where you saw your name?) I'm unsure about restoring it without also unblocking. Actually, I wanted to make a pitch for unblocking instead, but.. well, there's been a hitch, not of a nature I want to spread around, sorry. Anyway, what I principally wanted to say on Elen's page comes in the last sentence, directed at Elen and hopefully noticeable even though I put it meekly: Pen should definitely not now have tpa easily or hastily disabled again. And any enable/disable cycle should fucking not be used as an argument against ever unblocking him, either. NE, I'm not sure you shouldn't have let this stay on Elen's page, as it inevitably involves her actions and declarations. Never mind, I expect she'll see this. Bishonen | talk 14:39, 1 November 2012 (UTC).

'tis the season

Of course you didn't say that, I was making a rhetorical point. What I observed is two editors I respect (RF and Elen) apparently stuck in an interaction that neither of them seemed to be enjoying and appeared to have a straightforward solution. I used the existing rope essay as shorthand for the concept that unblocks are cheap and no lasting harm to Misplaced Pages would occur if it turned out not to work.You have a valid point about the etymology of the phrase being sketchy; unfortunately WP:UNBLOCKS ARE CHEAP is redlinked and I don't have wikitime to write it today. I don't understand why folks are so concerned about blocked users posting on their talk page -- except for abuse of the unblock template the only way they can disrupt WP is if folks are stalking their talk page. Nobody Ent 16:55, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Some food for thought for all of you, - you played a good part in the title story ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

• Bishonen, I'd really rather you didn't contact me about Penyulap (or any other user for that matter) again. It seems from your comments above that you've drawn me into this whole thing on false pretences, and your aim all along was to get Penyulap unblocked. While you must act in whatever way strikes you as right, please don't involve me again. Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:27, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
  • I don't understand what you mean by the false pretences or my aim all along. It hasn't been my aim all along. I only lit on the notion that it was time to try an unblock three days ago. (And unlit from it the next day, because of an e-mail I received.) How did I draw you in, anyway? By getting RFAR'd by Jc37? I didn't do that on purpose, though I certainly appreciated the interest you showed in that case. But as you like, of course. Bishonen | talk 17:53, 1 November 2012 (UTC).

Given that I've now got you AND Rich having a go at me on my talkpage, is it any surprise that I'm not exactly overenthused. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:10, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

• • I'm not sure that Arbs get to request no-interacts. I certainly got slapped down for doing so.
  • Neither Bish not I were "having a go" simply pointing out that you seemed to been a little overenthusiastic in blocking, not for the first time.

Rich Farmbrough, 18:22, 1 November 2012 (UTC).

Subtle as an air raid, Rich. If you and Bish ever feel like apologising for your attack of ABF which, I have to say, really upset me when I read it, I'm sure I'll accept it graciously. Elen of the Roads (talk) 20:52, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Again I don't see where we assumed bad faith. I pointed out that what you saw as trolling clearly wasn't. And I said it is bloody hard work to get you to change your mind. If I had assumed bad faith I would have chosen a different venue than your talk page. I am sorry you are upset, though if you have trouble with people questioning your admin decisions, then you have chosen the wrong project to be an admin on. Rich Farmbrough, 04:33, 2 November 2012 (UTC).

So I guess I'm not being trolled on Penyulap's talkpage currently. I must be imagining it. Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:57, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I think I advised you to stop watching that page. Not the first time you have ignored my advice. Rich Farmbrough, 02:19, 3 November 2012 (UTC).

I couldn't believe you'd speak to me the way you did, Elen, after we've been good friends for years — I could feel my eyes widening as I took in your words on the screen. Perhaps it's the nature of the Internet, but it's still quite hurtful. My original post on your page (aka 'having a go at you'), apparently came at a bad time. That's a pity, but I still can't make out that it was other than mild in itself (certainly mild w r t you). Your accusations against me of deception and plotting are made out of beaten egg white and temper and bathetic wikipedia jargon ("ABF"). Anyway. This is your third post on my page after you asked me not to contact you any more, on the ground that I'd 'shown my hand' about my 'false pretences' etc. I think you're done here.

Originally I had composed a much more satisfying comment in my head, just seven words long, but, being born in a cold climate, I decided not to post it. You are an old friend, after all. Thanks for the good times, happy editing, good luck in the arbcom elections. Now sod off from my page. Bishonen | talk 02:42, 3 November 2012 (UTC).

A cheeseburger for you!

Thanks for your friendly gesture, but I haven't been able to do anything for Penyulap. I'm not hungry. Bishonen | talk 22:30, 1 November 2012 (UTC).

Cake

Some cake for you. Because I thought maybe you would like some cake. And I wanted to give you some. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 14:06, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank you little Heim. Bishonen is in a terminal sulk, but I'll graciously have it. Pity to let it go to waste. Next time please put cake directly on my page. darwinbish 15:10, 3 November 2012 (UTC).

Request that topic ban be lifted

Hi Bishonen,

I've made a request that the topic ban be lifted . I hope I can count on your support. NinaGreen (talk) 17:57, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm not getting involved with that in either direction. I wasted enough of my life with the events surrounding the original RFAR:SAQ. Bishonen | talk 20:55, 4 November 2012 (UTC).

Thanks

Thanks for the note about the alternative account and for the offer to adopt it. I'm going to decline, though, because I don't use alternative accounts. I've seen you around, too, and appreciate the good work your doing. I like your user name, too. I monitor mostly pseudoscience and fringe articles for POV pushing, and also keep an eye on LGBT related articles, especially those dealing with fringe groups. I look forward to working together with you in the future. Thanks for your help on the ACL article! Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 11:48, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome. People who "monitor pseudoscience and fringe articles for POV pushing" are the unsung heroes of Misplaced Pages, IMO. (I can't face doing very much of it myself; I only checked out the ACL because I saw it mentioned on ANI a while ago.) Bishonen | talk 12:05, 10 November 2012 (UTC).

P.S. Hey, don't edit war! You'll be in trouble, especially now that I've reported Zaalbar to WP:AN3. Bishonen | talk 12:18, 10 November 2012 (UTC).

Roger, wilco! Thanks for the tip. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 17:37, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Hey

Hey Bishy, did you get my e-mail about Rschen?--YOLO Swag (talk) 22:22, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

? No. I've got an e-mail from you fairly recently, but nothing like that. Don't quite see why you'd e-mail me about that editor, either... (and I'm not especially interested in discussing him/her, on or off wiki). Did you mean to put some other name above? I've e-mailed you, anyway. Check your mail. :-) Bishonen | talk 00:23, 18 November 2012 (UTC).

Sorry it was about Dengero. I replied to you a few days ago about some IRC evidence I uncovered. I'm not sure if you received it....--YOLO Swag (talk) 16:30, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

My Talk

I know the way of spelling of defense to defence, although, the we usually use the word defense mostly, but thanks for bringing it up!--GoShow (............................)

Safely past the danger timeline

... and you squeak by once again. You realize, of course, that I'll eventually win one way or another and that your hat will end up in that ring?  :-) — Coren  20:11, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Bish for arbcom! Bish for WMF chair! Bish for President! Bish for Archbishop of Canterbury! (Ok, maybe that last one is a bit much).--Scott Mac 20:27, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

May as well get started early

Please consider announcing your candidacy for the 2013 elections. The earlier the better, so I have time to set up and raise money for a SuperPAC. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:55, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

The Archbish of Canterbury

Darwinbish takes all the compliments to herself, since she at least did offer to stand for arbcom, in tandem with her twin. She graciously offers her ring to be kissed, and is inspired to create a sock of her own,User:Archbish, to run in the 2013 election and evade Bishonen's schoolmarmish ban of the twins from wikipedia space.

• I have been commanded by Her ladyship to point out that while Lady Catherine admires your fortitude and energy, Her ladyship is concerned that you may be taking too much upon yourself and it may be detrimental to your health. Remember, Misplaced Pages already has a first lady and it would be such a pity if you were to unwittingly tread on toes and in so doing find yourself in hospital – again! Her ladyship implores you to remember your poor, frail state and leave these weightier matters to her younger and wiser head. Vera Corpus (Miss) (talk) 21:01, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Wow, she had a head transplant? Bishonen | talk 21:09, 22 November 2012 (UTC).

I'd also have my doubts as to whether the esteemed lady in question (whom I assume adheres to the Church of England), would approve of one of her own delicate gender being installed on the throne of St Augustine. Of course, were her gracious majesty to enthrone a dinosaur as Primate of All England, this may prove somewhat less of an innovation.--Scott Mac 22:37, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

• Indeed, Lady Catherine does adhere to rights and beliefs of the Church of England; however, Her Ladyship does feel that the church has somewhat lost its way. This is not so much because Her Ladyship disapproves of female bishops merely some of those aspiring to such high office. Most of whom Her Ladyship feels would benefit from a trip to the hairdresser and a little advice from a make-up artist and stylist. It is inconceivable to Her ladyship that those wishing to appearing the wedding photographs of others should not be an ornament to the occasion. Regarding the Archbishopric of Canterbury, as personal chaplain, confessor and spiritual adviser to Her Ladyship, I do feel I have the experience to take on the role and most humbly submit my name; that I would have to escape forego Her Ladyships gracious employment, over-patronage and proximity to Miss Corpus would be a heavy cross to bear, but one I would gladly suffer for the nation. In fact, I have already already selected our first lady bishops – such a dear, happy and joyous little band whom Lady Catherine has agreed to groom and polish to perfection. Rev Dr Augustus Deepthought (talk) 11:34, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Excuse I for butting in on this lovely little conversation but the Reverend needs to improve Weavers' windows as fast as a wombat drinks at a coolabah, or emus will kick his dunny door down, and Potoroos and Pademelons will take over his top paddock.--Shirt58 (talk) 14:43, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Where have you been?

Hey Bishy, I have been waiting for your input on the IRC evidence I uncovered before dropping the potential bombshell. Please take a look if you have time. Thanks!--YOLO Swag (talk) 22:00, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, Boney. I could have sworn I mentioned IRC in my message of November 18, but I misremembered. :-( I've got to go, I'll write to you tomorrow. Short answer, though: no. Bishonen | talk 22:47, 25 November 2012 (UTC).

ANI

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Bishonen. --213.168.72.45 (talk) 18:58, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

• KillerChihuahua 21:37, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Puppy not want take cosy nap in snug pocket? :-( bishzilla _ROARR!! 23:30, 27 November 2012 (UTC).
    • Nice Wolfie will accept cuddle in little killerdog's stead; offers share of yummy mammoth bone (acquired at recent Mammoth Sale). Pesky (talk) 12:09, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
    • Puppy chews up "wolfie"s mammoth bone and spits it out, then jumps in well-earned pocket and curls up with the pocket fluff, various members of ArbCom, and random treats. KillerChihuahua 15:58, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

bishzilla _ROARR!! 16:17, 28 November 2012 (UTC).

Wolfie grins in delight, having already saved the lion's share for 'zilla. The lion was not impressed by this, but having caught sight of wolfie's teeth and IQ, decided that discretion was the better part of valour, and agreed that 'zilla could have his share.

Wolfie subsequently invites Crippen round for breakfast ... it's so nice to have a friend for breakfast Pesky (talk) 11:11, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Wolfie adds, whilst pinning Crippen under humungous Wolfie-paw and administering forcible shlurpy faced-wash, that people (human, canine or otherwise) will neiver fwetten nor fwiten Wolfie's 'zilla, else dire and dretful fings might happen, such as bath, or seeing vet. And vet might choose to administer correction normally reserved for admins, i.e. having "bits" removed. ;P Wolfie hopes all is now clear, Wolfie being 'zilla's self-appointed bodyguard. Pesky (talk) 11:38, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Information

I noticed your username commenting at an Arbcom discussion regarding civility. An effort is underway that would likely benifit if your views were included. I hope you will append regards at: Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Civility enforcement/Questionnaire Thank you for considering this request. My76Strat (talk) 08:37, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm not aware of having ever commented in an arbcom discussion regarding civility, MyStrat, in fact you're embarrassing me in front of my friends by saying that. I've been uncivil, yes, if that was what you meant (even though Darwinbish nowadays takes care of most of my requirements in that way). Diffs on request. Bishonen | talk 13:20, 29 November 2012 (UTC).

I am no beacon of civility, and I've made far too many mistakes. However, asking you to add your voice to the questionnaire is not a mistake. It would be a shame if a policy formed without the weight of your input. Though I understand how naive it is to place confidence in positive change around here. But I am still a bit naive, and often overly optimistic, as you are likely aware. With esteem, My76Strat (talk) 13:40, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

You need a new userbox, Bish. "This user has been accused of participating in a discussion about civility, but vehemently denies it". --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:55, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

And here I was hoping somebody would request the diffs..! (Being too modest to offer them unasked.) Bishonen | talk 14:00, 29 November 2012 (UTC).

Hey, I was busy on Skype! I can't do everything all at once! But now that I'm free, diffs, please! Heimstern Läufer (talk) 14:36, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, I recently referred to a poetic effusion in a voter guide as miserable doggerel. And this personal attack was taken to ANI here. (Hardly fair, per other things exist. Who's up for hauling Darwinbish before ANI for her latest template User:Darwinbish/anonymouscoward?) Bishonen | talk 20:16, 29 November 2012 (UTC).

I had no need to ask; my favorite diff is handily located right in your block log. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:43, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Really? I can't think what that would be. If you mean the massive penis thing, that was just a warning — not a block. Bishonen | talk 20:16, 29 November 2012 (UTC).

• I think My76Strat was referring to the recent ArbCom motion regarding Elen of the Roads. Kurtis (talk) 19:53, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
  • (Hi there, Kurtis, I like your voter guide.) Well, maybe he was, but surely that motion is one of the rare recent things which has nothing at all to do with civility. Pretty much unique in that way, really. Bishonen | talk 20:16, 29 November 2012 (UTC).
    • Thank you so much! =)

Actually, I think it does sort of pertain to civility, as it stemmed from the whole kerfuffle with Jclemens and Malleus. The former is actively campaigning against those who did not support banning the latter, and he's taking a pretty aggressive tone in doing so. But then again, it's only tangentially related and has more to do with respect for privacy than anything. Kurtis (talk) 20:56, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, everything pertains to it in that sense. You could say civility is the Kevin Bacon of Misplaced Pages. Nowadays few of our threads have more than one or two degrees of separation from it. Bishonen | talk 21:31, 29 November 2012 (UTC).

Indeed, I've noticed. =\ Kurtis (talk) 03:37, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

I didn't realize that you were serious about wondering why I said "I noticed your username commenting at an Arbcom discussion regarding civility." It seemed like in jest humor to me and I just moved on as if everything was in order. You certainly have a right to ask me what list I used in deciding to message you, and I certainly do not have any right to disregard you, leaving you and others to speculate. Disregard like that is out of my character, so if it ever seems like I am, it's almost certainly that I misunderstood something. Anyway, here is the exact list I used, Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement and your username is located at number 1.42. I apologize for the delay. My76Strat (talk) 06:47, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh, right. Indeed. An extremely dubious RFAR, preceded by no dispute resolution (as I pointed out in my comment) and brought by User:Alexandria, who has a, hmm, what's that euphemism… a controversial record for… again, words fail me… for contentious admin actions and other… factious calls. I was surprised the committee accepted such a poorly formed and prepared request. I'd forgotten about my comment there; or rather, I thought you were talking about recent civility discussions, MyStrat. That was a year ago. But of course I don't really object to being pinged in the matter. You're quite right to cast your net widely. Bishonen | talk 08:42, 30 November 2012 (UTC).

Why do we have policies at all if they're not going to be enforced?MONGO 20:12, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh come on, Bigfoot. We can't enforce them if they have no precision and if everybody understands the concepts in them differently, per cultural differences, personal opinions, etc etc. I suppose we have to have a civility policy, something to gesture at and tell newbies about... but I seriously don't think a policy on that subject is capable of precision, or, thus, of a whole lot of enforcement. And if we try to straightjacket the policy into more precision and concreteness, we will only provide a bigger and better field for all sorts of wikilawyering. So, enforce? How? And doesn't it worry you that WP:CIV and WP:NPA are some of the best-loved policies of all trolls, socks, and aggressive newbies? (To cite, I mean, and post warnings about, and take people to ANI over. Not so much to apply to themselves.) Second only to their all-time favourite WP:AGF. For the finer distinctions, compare User:Heimstern/Ignoring incivility. Bishonen | talk 20:36, 30 November 2012 (UTC).

So you recommend zero enforcement? Just ignore it? That works well for some, but not for every editor. Is there a cut off...I mean, if we're not going to enforce civility, then why should we take a death threat seriously? I find death threats are less incivil and pretty ridiculous since there is no chance the offender is going to reach through the internet to yank out my still beating heart. I think this "cultural differences" excuse for some of the vitriol I see on the website is ridiculous. I've discussed this matter with plenty of folks from the east side of the Atlantic and elsewhere that don't buy it either. It seems rather preposterous that too many arbs and admins defend their buddies when they should be helping their buddies by reigning them back in from the precipice. I can't see how we do the website or our pals here favors when we just let them tear the place to pieces.MONGO 21:55, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Come on, threats of harm, hate speech, these are easy to distinguish. But in some parts of the world I would be being extremely incivil just for speaking to you, me being a woman and all. Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:15, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Incivility is not as hard to spot as many portent! We certainly don't have any problem spotting it when added to a BLP. It only seems to become difficult when directed against a living Misplaced Pages editor. I find that a bit disingenuous. My76Strat (talk) 22:44, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

For example, using the term "disingenuous" to imply that someone is intentionally deceitful? Not that I think anything should be Done About It, I just find it interesting that you've managed to shoot your message in the foot so cleanly. --Floquenbeam (talk) 22:51, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

The nuance betwixt saying "I find that ..." and "That is ..." has long-been a factor of the bright-line. Consider this 1622 quote from Justice Barkley: Cheers, My76Strat (talk) 23:03, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Oh, good! I didn't know that civility enforcers thought the solution was just rewording things like that. I find your posts about civility unbearably smarmy and pretentious. And disingenuous. But on the plus side, I do find that you share many traits with trolling wikilawyers. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:11, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps the line is not as bright as I once held. More importantly, I am sorry to see you find me to be of such character; which is not the height of my aspirations. On another note, could you recommend a good surgeon so I can have this bullet removed from my foot? It's affecting my mobility. Cheers My76Strat (talk) 23:20, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, Grasshopper, it is invariably hazy. You have made the first of many steps toward enlightenment today. I shall provide a few more words of wisdom, and then retire to my chambers. Much like hole digging, there is a Rule #1 associated with foot shooting. When you find your foot has been shot, the first step is to stop shooting. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:36, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

No Padawan. When shot foot found, no first step possible. --Famously Sharp (talk) 18:29, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Not entirely arbitrary break

@Elen...of course this is just using this as a baseline, so that we can agree of course that threats of harm should result in some kind of penalty. So where do we go from there? Is there a standard for which we tolerate incivility. Can we word it in a way on the policy page where we might get a general agreement as to what constitutes a blockable offense...is it the word itself, how many times it is stated, what the frequency is, how much vitriol is in it, or is all of this simply too subjective? Since the community is having increasing difficulty knowing what the boundaries are regardng incivility are we to lower the bar or raise it?--MONGO 01:24, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Nobody should be blocked for breaching somebody else's standard of civility. Blocks in these sort of circumstances are 99% punitive, and we all know that punishment alone is the least effective form of behaviour modification. Let's turn our efforts to working out why some people appear uncivil and to figuring out how to reduce the incidence (hint: blocking has the opposite effect). --RexxS (talk) 18:46, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion, it has little to do with words and more to do with the way those words are delivered, with the level of animosity etc. Sometimes, I see some back and forth on Misplaced Pages and think that if an outsider read the exchanges, they'd assume the two (or more) people genuinely hate each other. Even being on "the inside" such as I am, the exchanges seem that way to me as well.--MONGO 19:13, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree with your observation. The problem is that it's perfectly possible to use absolutely 'civil' language to administer the most cutting remarks, and it's very hard to legislate for how one person feels towards another. Pesky suggests that we should all be kind to one another, but does that impose too much on people - and would it work anyway? Perhaps the answer is to work down from the threats and the hate speech to define an upper bound of unacceptably inflammatory language, rather than thinking of it as working up from a world where everyone is 'nice' to each other. Elen of the Roads (talk) 20:43, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Are you pretending to be a woman, but really a man? I ask because your last comment is packed with insight; a well known discriminating factor. calm down everyone, it's a bad joke, meant as a bad joke, bordering terrible, but I do like the comment by Elen of the Roads My76Strat (talk) 21:12, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

I'll tell you something amusing. I am a bona fide woman (have three girls to prove it) but when I was a student myself and a (straight) male friend volunteered with the Psychology department for the students to experiment on. We were given a whole raft of tests, some of which were supposed to show the difference between male and female brains. The students couldn't tell us apart. This isn't as spooky as it sounds - we figured that the 'intuition' tests were just based on good powers of observation, and as my dad was a practical guy who had no son, I'd been engaged from a young age helping him do DIY etc, so I had good spatial awareness, handled tools etc. Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:38, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

The "intuition" wossname is a lousy indicator! The left-brain vs. right-brain thinking is slightly better, but that falls down often, too. F'rinstance, autie females have male-type brain stuff going on much of the time, and in terms of that are often indistinguishable from non-autie males. I've had people having real trouble believing I'm a granny when they've "met" me in IRC; apparently I come across like a 20-something male in that environment! Elen, you remind me of me in that history - not that I had no brother, but that my father had me helping him out on all sorts of DIY and so on from a young age. (And eeewwww, how I hated girly stuff like dolls! ) Pesky (talk) 04:59, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I read somewhere that one of the most reliable questions to discriminate male-female is "Have you ever touched a 9-volt battery to your tongue?" Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 15:16, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah now, I had dollies, Sindys and dress up clothes, a meccano set, an excellent vocabulary, decent spatial awareness, could use a hammer and cold chisel, and have licked 9v batteries to test for charge. I'm just your average Renaissance woman :) Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:20, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I can honestly say I've gotten way more mileage out of my misplaced humor than I ever imagined. I honestly did expect someone would probably chastise me harshly. And by the way, I,ve tested the 9v battery so many times in my prepubescent years that I came to like the taste. Heck, after I save this, I think I'll have a look around the house to see if I can find one to test; for old-times sake. Cheers, My76Strat (talk) 18:37, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

@Elen...Pesky...I'm supportive of that and glad many ladies here speak their minds, are candid and willing to stand their ground and might test a 9V battery in a way I wouldn't! I have wondered, as an offshoot of the relatively recent discussions that Misplaced Pages is losing/not attracting female participants, how much incivility may or may not play a part in that issue. I'm not seeing any female editors make more of a fuss over it than the men do, in fact it seems men are more concerned, or at least more aggressive in discussing the matter. I am concerned that the "cultural differences" argument is invalid (ever heard of the New Jersey Hello...its just a middle finger) as I know first hand that Americans are just as prone to use nasty language as any other culture. I do not condone my oubursts nor those of others and think it is important that unless we are faced with an extreme situation, we should all refrain from being nasty. It would be hard to believe that the numerous complaints about me and others regarding incivility are all without merit, or should be ignored. I'm going to do whatever I can to be as civil as possible, since I know that, less so currently than in the past, I have a history of repeated infractions. I consider myself fortunate that at one time I had allies that defended me, even at times I probably didn't deserve any defense...it would be a discredit to them now not earn their approval. Best wishes.--MONGO 18:56, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I really appreciate the insight you are sharing that user:MONGO has seen. A lot of people would rather discard your admissions than presume they are sincere. But I strongly feel that you are being sincere, and I think it's a very good thing seeing your comments. I suspect you won't be passing any RfA's anytime soon, and neither will I, but I don't see where I'd have any problem collaborating with you, because there is wisdom in your prose, and I enjoy hanging around wisdom every chance I get. My76Strat (talk) 19:17, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Oddly enough, I'm male and have never tested a 9 volt battery with my tongue. (Although my M.A. is in electronic engineering, so I've always had a voltmeter to hand.) I do need to point out to Elen, though, that all real Renaissance women and men can be identified by their habit of keeping dinosaurs for pets. --T-RexxS (rawr) 21:39, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

9v batteries are for sissies! Coming from a farmy, horsey background, the real test is to check your 2mm steel-cable, mains-adaptor-powered electric fence for shorts at a distance from the farmhouse by grabbing hold of it with a rain-soaked hand ...

@RexxS - I don't have a dinosaur, but I do have a nearly-nine-foot boa constrictor! Her pet-name is "Cuddles" ;P Pesky (talk) 11:39, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

"fishy"

Replied on my page. Diff works for me - use 'find' for "fishy". Or do same on Misplaced Pages talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard.

As I said when I posted the diff on the page: I said "fishy" aurora because I couldn't remember the exact quote which was "fishy odor". So when I posted the diff, I quoted "fisher odor". Please read my post on that page where I gave the diff for your .

Hope this helps you out. Best wishes, MathewTownsend (talk) 14:49, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

p.s. It is a diff in the "usual sense" but to a permalinked page. A permalink is just a diff to specific version of the page, in case that version gets archived or deleted or something. Best, MathewTownsend (talk) 14:55, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

That's not what "diff" means. See Help:Diff. --Floquenbeam (talk) 14:57, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

well, whatever the right terminology this **** (which is called a diff on the page: (diff) ← Previous revision | Latest revision (diff) | Newer revision → (diff)) goes to the page. If you use 'find' for "fishy", the referenced comment using "fishy odor" can be found. So I used this to give a citation for the tag. MathewTownsend (talk) 21:08, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

p.s. the complete sentence is "No doubt the fishy odor would remain throughout Elen's next term, should she win another, providing a useful reminder to her that bright lines are bright lines even when they're painted in stupid places." MathewTownsend (talk) 21:26, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

• Northern krill (wears flat cap and drinks Newcastle Brown Ale) says
• "Don't mess with Little 'Shonen
• or Fishy twins will come and get you"

Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:35, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

On anchors and other non-nautical stuff

Having placed an anchor in a page using the {{anchor}} template, you can create a link to it from within the same page like this #replyWorm - you can of course pipe the text like this as usual.

You can also link to it from another page as you would do normally for a section, just substituting the name you gave to the anchor instead of the section name. You can write User talk:Bishonen #replyWorm on any page and it will link to the place on this page where you placed the {{anchor|replyWorm}} template. Piping works as normal. You might want to pass this on to the young fish as I'm sure he'll find it useful. --RexxS (talk) 22:02, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

... You both know how to make a guy paranoid. Worm(talk) 22:09, 30 November 2012 (UTC)

@Worm: HA-Haw! (I never thought of that.:-)) Oh, I wouldn't write User talk:Bishonen #<section name>, Rex, what do you take me for? An ordinary inviter of linkrot (like half the arbcom, and other ignoramuses, who are incapable of making permanent links)? I wrote the Simple diff and link guide, you know (for dummies by a dummy is the best way). Are you saying I can write like this? Let me try if it works.

Yes! It does! Thanks, Famous RexxS! Bishonen | talk 02:24, 1 December 2012 (UTC).

Re your e-mail

Thanks - that should do it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:48, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

SchuminWeb RFCU

"Threaded replies to another user's vote, endorsement, evidence, response, or comment should be posted to the talk page" -I've asked Centpacrr to move their additional paragraph to the talk page? Once they do so, would you please transfer your second comment that applies to it? Regards, GiantSnowman 19:18, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, it looks like Centpacrr has tried to fix the issue on the main page instead, so I'll wait a bit. I see the present situation on his talkpage, and I agree with you that it would be simplest to move his second thoughts, and mine, to the RFC talk. As you say, it could be the start of a useful thread about lack of response from SchW. Plus also, it's not easy at present for people who may want to endorse Centpacrr's view to know where or how to post! That needs to be simplified. But I certainly don't have any strong feeling about where, or if, my own demurral appears, I'll leave it to you and Centpacrr to figure out. Do feel free to move (or delete, if it comes to that) my comment to wherever it fits best. (You too, Centpacrr, if you see this.) Or if you have a scruple about that, I'll move it myself, once the talkpage has been created.

Incidentally, one reason that I demurred about making a big deal about SchW not responding was that in one of the several RfC's I've been the subject of (compare my userpage here), I chose not to respond at all: this one. It was admittedly a very different situation. Bishonen | talk 21:57, 7 December 2012 (UTC).

(Compare also my post here.) Bishonen | talk 21:26, 8 December 2012 (UTC).

Userpage proposal

User_talk:YOLO_Swag/Userpage_proposal I deleted some of the stuff people had issues with. Let me know what you think :)--YOLO Swag (talk) 22:16, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm going out on a limb for you here, Boney. Click on my links, I think you'll like them, but kindly don't use them as ammo, not against anybody. Bishonen | talk 00:07, 9 December 2012 (UTC).

Thank you Bishy! I'm surprised a lot of these folks are really keeping close tabs on me. I didn't expect such hostility at all. I actually deleted some of the materials people took issues with including the "new message" bar and offending "China=shame" among others. Just FYI, I am giving you special permission to edit/improve my subpage you see fit but I really don't care about anyone else's hate.--YOLO Swag (talk) 01:02, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, that went well. I'll let the three other editors he's insulted report him at ANI. I'm off for the night. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 02:56, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Sigh. Have you ever considered preserving a dignified silence in places like MfD, Boney? There's no point in you saying "Keep", because it's already obvious that you will want it kept, it's your bloody page. And the other things you say there are a bit worse than pointless. I hereby topic ban you from ever again mentioning Sven Manguard. I'll revise your page when I get a chance, but unfortunately I'm really busy today. Bishonen | talk 11:01, 9 December 2012 (UTC).

• @Elen. Don't get me wrong, I was quite happy to support your Arb election, but I think you really need to dial it down a notch. You know better. Please consider stepping back a bit and looking at the big picture. I honestly do understand that emotions are running high at the moment, but allowing yourself to be drawn in to petty squabbles isn't going to help your peace of mind. Have a hug and a smile, and stick to the big picture. :) — Ched :  ?  15:20, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

What's the big picture here? Other parties can deal with the allegations about Misplaced Pages editors - he's already been warned for it. Here's my problem

• Dr. Dre is of course a real person, and this isn't him.
• Andre Wallace sr is a real person ] (scroll down to the bottom). If the editor isn't LL Cool Dre, I would consider this one a real problem.

• Lindsey Strutt is a real person , and the reference clearly is to that Lindsey Strutt.
• I doubt this editor beat Easy-E in a rapping contest.
• John Bunting (American football) is a real person.
• Leighton Meester is a real person and Ludacris is a real person. Are they really related to this editor?
• Jay-Z is a real person, and I doubt he is this editor's homie
• Makayla Wallace is a real person (several real people)
• Donovan Jackson is a lot of real people

I can't personally see the slightest merit in this, although I am waiting for Bishonen to come up with how it can be rewritten. If he really wants to promote the cause of Taiwan, I can think of a lot better ways of doing it than in a fake bio that just discredits the subject. And if he's using the fake bio to discredit people like Lin Yi-hsiung, then that's pretty low. Whatever, it's up there as an MfD, the community gets to decide. Elen of the Roads (talk) 15:34, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

If he uses names that are "a lot of real people", I wouldn't consider that a problem, as long as none of those real people are actual household words. Of course Dr Dre and similar versions are just that, and I've removed those. I'm in the process of removing other clearly inappropriate real people, thanks for the useful list! And of course the politics can expect to get slashed. (It may all take a while, though. I've got some people coming to dinner.) What's up with your link 8? I can't find any Andre Wallace Sr there. Do I have to be logged in or something? Bishonen | talk 15:54, 9 December 2012 (UTC).

If you can get rid of them all, it would certainly be less of a problem. Re link 8, scroll right down to the bottom. Just above the Latest Blog entries heading, it says the following

Heroes

master seargant Andre Wallace sr. a good soldier a better father august 4 1968- november 12 2008 Thank you for President Obama.Thankyou for allowing him to do what I thought I'd never see or do.

The blog owner called himself LL Cool Dre. His name is Andre Wallace, his dad was called Andre Wallace. I don't believe it's this editor. That's a problem, even if it is a lot of coincidences. Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:01, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Ha, no, that can't be him. See the mention of Obama? That's never Boney. ;-) Bishonen | talk 16:26, 9 December 2012 (UTC).

That's what I thought. It's an odd coincidence, but it runs just a bit too close for me. Can you change the name in some way. Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:38, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

User:Bishonen/Sicilian Christmas

Maybe you forgotten about this page? But user pages do get indexed, and someone just reported at OTRS that the page has been hacked... ;-)  Ronhjones  22:02, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Can I be the first to die laughing. Pretty please. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:26, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

• I can't believe you left out the story of the December 1967 invasion of Sicily by Cuban mercenaries bent on removing St. Giacomo and replacing him with an effigy of the recently martyred Che Guevara, singing John Lennon's "Imagine" (notable for not having been written yet) and encouraging everyone to skip Christmas and instead wait until August to celebrate the birth of Fidel Castro. Bravely repelled by valiant US Marines with a low 50% collateral casualty rate, the now ship-less mercenaries left Sicily and drifted in the Atlantic for months on empty cigar boxes, past the Azores and Easter Island, before washing up on the shores of Dingham-On-The-Sea near Cornwall. They went on to open the successful Rincon Cubano (a redlink?! I smell a DYK opportunity) restaurant chain throughout the UK. --Floquenbeam (talk) 23:11, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

• @Ron: well, it is a year or two or three since I looked at the page, yes. I've now restored a valuable location specification which had mysteriously been lost. Perhaps the page was hacked! Anyway, Floquenbeam has now added a noindex tag, which people are most welcome to do any time they come across something disreputable in my userspace. (As with several of the pages lurking there, the most beautiful content was actually added by User:Giano.) Fortuitous, isn't it, that this was brought to my attention on 13 December, Sankta Lucia, prominently mentioned in the lede?

• @Floquenbeam: sofixit, then. Shouldn't there be a link to Friendly fire somewhere in there? Bishonen | talk 00:04, 14 December 2012 (UTC).

  How silly of me to forget the tradition of the Friendly Fire, so useless for burning saints, but just the thing to roast the St. Lucia Day goat. Many, many years ago, I lived in Norway, but had forgotten about St. Lucia Day until today. Kind of a Nordic Posadas. The Norwegian elementary school would invite the American kids over to their school for a party. God Luciadagen, Bish. --Floquenbeam (talk) 01:08, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

I had forgotten about that page - what a great services we have provided to the world. I thought there a more detailed description of the goat blessing ceremony somewhere; I shall have to write it up. Sadly, these cultural, religious customs are now dying out, than goodness for the brave marchese and his offspring. Giano (talk) 09:48, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

I hate to admit this, sweetheart, but I believe the marchese may have hung out for a while in the official Christmas article, elaborately blessing both the goat and some Sicilian miniature sleigh-pulling reindeer. Speaking of vandalism, the Gävle goat, believed to be the world's largest and ugliest Yule goat, has just been torched again! No idea why we didn't include that ancient cultural religious custom in the Sicilian Christmas article . Another oversight. Bishonen | talk 11:07, 14 December 2012 (UTC).

That's very sad. There's always some idiot wanting to spoil other peoples enjoyment of life. Personally, I am getting quite into the Christmas spirit; I quite like London at this time of year - I even posted my two Christmas cards yesterday; my beautiful children make them with glue and things found while walking the dog in the park. I saw there was a carol singing choir (of sorts) at Embankment tube station yesterday, but they seemed to be singing in some strange Eastern European dialect - probably collecting for the Keep Jimbo in London Fund. So Buon Natale as we don't say in London. Giano (talk) 16:01, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

No, no, not sad. It's the torching that's the ancient cultural religious custom, see Gävle goat. :-) All according to whassname… mm… not Bakunin… no, Bakthin! Compare Carnivalesque. Or, well, why not indeed Bakunin for that matter — I'm sure he torched a yule goat or two in his day. Stockholm is overwhelmed by snow, and more is expected. Inconvenient and beautiful, madly exciting for the little children who overrun the parks and any convenient incline with their sleds, happy shouts mingling with the ambulance sirens (coming to pick up all the little old ladies who've come to grief, no doubt my turn any moment now). Nostalgic! Bishonen | talk 16:42, 14 December 2012 (UTC).

Thank you for liberating through humor and chaos ;) don't come to grief, please, torch, - remembering torch --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:18, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi there, Gerda. I see Darwinbish (who moves around the site effortlessly in the snow and ice, her claws functioning as crampons) has posted on PumpkinSky's page. Just mentioning it because, for such a kind and gentle user, you seem surprisingly partial to the ankle biter. :-) Is it possible that she symbolises for you a repressed, never seen, Gerda? Fell free to liberate that Gerda by posting any of Darwinbish's evil templates on any user talkpage that strikes you as in need of it, HINT HINT. You'll find them on db's userpage. (Remember to subst, and they'll automagically say your name in place of "a friend". Fine feature added by a br'er of yours.) Bishonen | talk 00:02, 15 December 2012 (UTC).

... like many fine features. - I like the effortless biter, thank you, team! I like team spirit and just said so ;) (hint hint: I would like to see the face of the one I have in mind now when I present the biter) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:20, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

too early to be archived, continued, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:58, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Not to mention famous Sicilian Christmas toilet paper holders... decorated with caganers and ranging in style from "Manger" to "Japanese". Lucia 4ever, – SJ + 03:51, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Hello there little Sj! Long long time! bishzilla _ROARR!! 12:50, 17 December 2012 (UTC).

Yes, Bishzilla. Gosh, a nihilartikel in mainspace! Why don't we have this hilarious great stuff in the learned European toilet paper holder article? The information in Caganer proves, surely, that the Holy Grail really was a tph, and thereby a symbol of the fertility of the (enriched) land, as per Celtic vegetation cults. Well, I thought so. Bishonen | talk 13:13, 17 December 2012 (UTC).

Use for this shit, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:38, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Ombudsman commission

Hi, I contact you as you took part in the discussion on Penyulap's talk page concerning the Ombudsman committee matter. I've started some proposals and discussion on meta about how best to reform the OC to fix the issues it currently has and I would be very grateful if you could drop by and voice your opinion at m:Ombudsman commission/reform proposals. Snowolf 12:19, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Humore. ;)

AAAAHAHAH! :) Thank you for injecting a bit of humor. I killed that before the thought police could verbally shoot you. :) User talk:Unfriend12 17:03, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Haha. I ain't scared of the Civility Patrol. But some people may be, so it wouldn't hurt if you got yourself a fucken wiki e-mail account. (Under "User profile" in Preferences.) Bishonen | talk 17:11, 17 December 2012 (UTC).

If I could have an actual Misplaced Pages email (perhaps as Facebook does it), I would. But as I would have to tie the address to an email account I actually check, at this time I think I will not set it up. Though it is a good suggestion and I appreciate it.User talk:Unfriend12 17:39, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

No one can see your email address unless you actually reply, so you could use your current account for receiving; but you can easily use an email you can reply with and can set up so you will see the incoming emails from Misplaced Pages without checking multiple accounts. Get a Gmail account or another free email account; then set it up to forward to your regular account, as explained here for gmail. Then just make sure you log into your Google account when you want to reply to a Misplaced Pages email you've received. Taa-daa! You only check one email account, and you see all incoming Misplaced Pages emails, and you can reply without losing your privacy. KillerChihuahua 13:34, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

"But as I would have to tie the address to an email account I actually check, at this time I think I will not set it up." - I have too many email addresses, won't attach one of the 5 to Misplaced Pages, and I am not checking any more. Good points you make, but no, thank you.User talk:Unfriend12 13:39, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

language ques

Is there a gender neutral equivalent of grow a pair? Thought I'd ask in advance after the lashing I got for rope ;) NE Ent 21:17, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

All depends on context, y'know. It wasn't some shortfall of politically correct language I was complaining about when you used the ugly "rope" trope for a dehumanising comment on an already sufficiently piled-on user. Anyway... as the proud one-time nominee for Misplaced Pages Review's "Balls of Steel" award, I don't think I'm the right person to take such puling backhanded inquiries to. But I'll see if I can come up with something. Bishonen | talk 21:49, 18 December 2012 (UTC).

I've actually forgotten the exact context -- partially selective memory being most useful for wiki-happiness -- my take-away was actually (simply) don't use wp:rope ever again. NE Ent 22:23, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

"Grow some teeth"! darwinbish 21:50, 18 December 2012 (UTC).

Hopefully, input from my grumpy self will not be too unwelcome. I have used "Use a bit more backbone.", "toughen up", and "grow a spine" similarly to "grow a pair", when being informal and perhaps a bit too harsh for politeness, but attempting to avoid the abuse that might follow something even less delicate. An old Brit used to raise one eyebrow and say something like "Stiff upper lip!" but that is a bit different.User talk:Unfriend12 22:04, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Mmmm. All good but none really quite capture the exact connotation .... I'm thinking now perhaps maybe I just have a longer entmoot when I'm filling the temptation to throw down such a challenge to an editor. NE Ent 22:23, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Friend Unfriend, you're welcome here. I don't know if it was obvious from the above that I'm female. (Though I doubt the Ent would have bothered to ask that question if I wasn't.) Ent, you could have taken away worse, I suppose. "Don't use WP:ROPE" and "don't use WP:STICK" should keep you out of trouble until , I can take care of the rest of your issues tomorrow. Bishonen | talk 01:32, 19 December 2012 (UTC).

With all due respect, you forgot something ... drawing a blank, I'm sure it will come to me. NE Ent 02:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Don't use "with all due respect"? Bishonen | talk 10:05, 19 December 2012 (UTC).

Hide, Ent! darwin 01:51, 19 December 2012 (UTC).

• OH MY .. yes - don't ever use WP:WADR when speaking on wiki ... <runs> — Ched :  ?  21:56, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

your comment/statement ...

Like :-) — Ched :  ?  21:53, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Hehe. Merry Christmas, Ched and Chedzilla! Bishzilla (powerful dino contralto), Pod (shrill treble) and the twins (blowing bubbles) will come round to sing Christmas carols and deliver Christmas cookies to y'all when you least expect it! Better warn the neighbours! Bishonen | talk 00:40, 20 December 2012 (UTC).

I've said similar things in the past, to little effect. Good luck. MBisanz 23:48, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Block the buggers, yeah, you're quite right, Matt! And admins who file frivolously should be taken to task more, not less, strictly than regular users. In my opinion. But I'm quite resigned to nobody asking me for my October example. Sigh... but then I expect all the people who might be interested already know the answer. Apropos of the Malleus case, I've been thinking of trouting, or rather stockfishing, the provocateur whose post in that thread lead with the fatality of classical tragedy to all the rest. If you read the thread, I'm sure you'll see who I mean. Somebody who nobody has mentioned in the context, a very good guy too, but in this instance... oh, well. So many plans, so much need to go to bed instead. You do it! Have a cookie, help yourself! Bishonen | talk 00:54, 20 December 2012 (UTC).

What's your October example? NE Ent 01:07, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Oh, Ent. You know that I know that you know that I know that you know it. But I appreciate the gesture. Here. Bishonen | talk 01:53, 20 December 2012 (UTC).

I can has cookie too, please? Heimstern Läufer (talk) 02:11, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

You can, little Heim, tuck in. The conglomerate never forgets a useful question at a helpful moment! Bishonen | talk 08:46, 20 December 2012 (UTC).

And lo, the 'Shonen family shall move in mysterious ways. received in my inbox today. Bless you Ms. Bish - may you and all your visitors have a wonderful and joyous season. :) — Ched :  ?  00:45, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Haha. That keeps happening, every time Bishzilla tries to leave for the North from Stockholm Central Station, with all her little socks in her pocket and discreetly disguised for privacy, per portrait shown right! Somebody spots her and everybody bursts into "An die Freude", just like that! Bishonen | talk 21:36, 21 December 2012 (UTC).

From the puppy

Happy Holidays from the Puppy! May the coming year lead you to wherever you wish to go. -- KillerChihuahua 17:35, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

(This is to everyone on this page, I'm trying not to spam as I know people have differing feelings about this sort of post. So if you want, please put {{subst:User:KillerChihuahua/HH}} on your talk page, with my kindest regards! Apologies if you would have preferred I place it there myself, but I prefer to err on the side of not annoying anyone if I can! Thanks! KillerChihuahua 01:53, 24 December 2012 (UTC))

Lazy Floq

OK, if KC can get away with that, then maybe I can get away with suggesting you create a nice, tasteful Christmas template, then award it to yourself from me? Maybe with some clever moving gifs of some kind? Whether you decide to do this or not, Merry Christmas, Bish (you too puppy). --Floquenbeam (talk) 04:05, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Oh, Floq, after the dead birds and hopping zombie chickens I think Bish isn't too worried about getting this from me. KillerChihuahua 04:09, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Thank you both so much for spreading such a lovely Christmas ambience all over my humble little page. I'll send Darwinbish to reciprocate; I know she's keen to display her fine santa hat with morning star. Bishonen | talk 11:31, 24 December 2012 (UTC).

Merry Christmas, Bish. I don't leave KringleSpam.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:17, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

I do! Personal whacking Kringlespam! darwinbish 21:44, 25 December 2012 (UTC).

Happy holidays!

	Happy Holidays!
	From the frozen wasteland of Nebraska, USA! MONGO 12:15, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Policy

I feel like I'm doing good work, like making templates, helping with Media copyright questions#Licensing_of_photos_of_gifts_to U.S. Presidents, and lots of content editing all over, but I'm at loggerheads with multiple users in policy disputes. I feel like I'm doing everything right; either I've run into a particularly high concentration of bad users or my judgement is off. I feel like I must have stepped into the Twilight Zone when have multiple experiences like this. I need a break. Can you block me for 3 weeks from en and commons (or all sites)?--Elvey (talk) 11:24, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Elvey. I can only block you from en; I'm not an admin anywhere else. I would consider doing that, if you're sure. But would it be a good idea on its own? Image copyright seems to be your field of interest, and if you remain active on Commons, well... it seems to me that being silenced on en would just be frustrating, without really helping you to disengage.

Image copyright is notoriously a field where emotions run high. I can see how it's disheartening stuff to deal with, especially if you feel people aren't listening. That said, however justifiably annoyed you get, you have to remember Wikipedians are very sensitive — or, you might say, overly touchy to straight talk — especially if they're wrong! — and it's important to talk sweet, which you don't always do in the diffs you gave me. But then, perhaps one reason you want to take a break is you want to recover your sweet temper?

If you're sure about wanting an enforced break, and if you've read my conditions for self-requested blocks, I suggest you try to find a Commons admin who's willing to block you there first (because I have a notion that may be harder), and then get back to me, and I'll give you some time off. Regards, Bishonen | talk 12:03, 30 December 2012 (UTC).

Good analysis. Maybe some Insulin could help with my blood sugar levels? Correct on all counts. ("I can see how it's disheartening stuff to deal with, especially if you feel people aren't listening. That said, however justifiably annoyed you get, you have to remember Wikipedians are very sensitive — or, you might say, overly touchy to straight talk — especially if they're wrong! — and it's important to talk sweet, which you don't always do in the diffs you gave me. But then, perhaps one reason you want to take a break is you want to recover your sweet temper?") Looks like I found one. Thanks.--Elvey (talk) 20:08, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Well, insulin is for when you're too sweet. ;-) Are you saying you're blocked on Commons now, and would like me to go ahead from this end?? Bishonen | talk 21:38, 30 December 2012 (UTC).

Please go ahead. I pointed Beeblebrox here, and expect him to, but whether he has or will or not, go ahead here, please. --Elvey (talk) 00:57, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

You have been blocked for three weeks with talkpage access disabled, per my conditions. (I didn't formally disable e-mail for you, since you didn't have it enabled in the first place.) Enjoy your wikiholiday! Bishonen | talk 01:12, 3 January 2013 (UTC).

New year fever?

What's wrong with everybody? I'd crack a smile over the AN/I shenanigans if I wasn't laughing. Rich Farmbrough, 20:13, 30 December 2012 (UTC).

(You mean the ones on AN?) Sigh. Isn't it the same all the fucking year round? I'm too pissed off to speak my mind here about shoot-from-the-hip admins, or their blocks, or the damage inflicted by their blocks. I just get more disillusioned the more I think about it. Anyway, I already shared a couple of my more moderate thoughts on AN, accomplishing zilch, who was I kidding. Not myself, that's for sure. Bishonen | talk 21:38, 30 December 2012 (UTC).

I haven't commented on the AN/ANI threads because one or more of the issues may come before the ArbCom. (Silly me, I thought that in my new term I might be able to help resolve some new disputes we hadn't seen before!) But I think I won't endanger my impartiality by saying that I thought that your comments were well-done and, if people were paying attention, should have helped to tone down some aspects of the situations. Newyorkbrad (talk) 21:41, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks, Brad. If you're very, very lucky in the new year, you may get somebody taking User:Darwinbish to RFAR for egregious personal attacks and Christmas threats, wouldn't that be a novelty? Bishonen | talk 21:57, 30 December 2012 (UTC).

P. S. I believe you meant to say you're "notoriously the most namby-pamby arbitrator". Satirical name for the, mmm, feeble and maudlin 18th-century courtier and poet Ambrose Philips. Bishonen | talk 01:38, 31 December 2012 (UTC).

Interesting; I've heard it spoken and used as "mamby-pamby" all my life, but you're clearly correct about the origin, and about "namby" being the more common form. Perhaps this is an ENGVAR situation of some sort? Newyorkbrad (talk) 02:16, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

I've always heard "namby", and I'm from the same country as you, albeit other coast. For whatever that matters! Heimstern Läufer (talk) 02:18, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes definitely namby! Rich Farmbrough, 04:58, 1 January 2013 (UTC).

It's all fairly harmless, since they end up looking silly and everyone ends up unblocked. But if they do that to each other, what do they do to the out-group? (And the answer is, sometimes, whatever they damn well please.) Rich Farmbrough, 04:58, 1 January 2013 (UTC).

Happy Christmas and Merry New Year to the Bishpack! Tex (talk) 14:33, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

A message from the First Lady of Misplaced Pages

My dear, little Mrs Bishonen,

It is to your barely read page that I have descended to make my New Year’s message of glad tidings to the people of Misplaced Pages – wherever they may be.

As I sit here in the refined splendours of my gracious drawing room at Scrotum Towers, looking at the frost atwinkling over my parkland, I think most warmly of you all in your less splendid and altogether more humble surroundings, scattered all over the Commonwealth – Mrs Bishonen in her igloo in Sweden, Mrs Risker is some sort of native construction in Canada, Mr Gerard camped under newspapers in Embankment Gardens, Tex and Rex roaming on their prairie (or whatever it is that they do in that distant part of the world), Mr Wales ensconced in the Ritz and poor Mr Fatuorum incarcerated in his cell and being tortured until he becomes a prim and proper American lady. In so thinking, I am minded of that little known Bible saying “God gives only to the deserving.” And what could be better proof of this than our loving and united community at Misplaced Pages.

I now wish you all a very happy and thoughtful New Year. May 2013 see a new and improved Misplaced Pages and may we not forget its many victims of injustice, naivity, bigotry, ignorance and downright stupidity. The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 20:18, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Wow, Lady C, how wonderful to finally see you again in the flesh as it were in the quality of a primary source, rather than relayed by your increasingly odd and bitterly infighting underlings, who got more and more like a Chinese whispering game every day! I'm petrified with honour at your choice of my humble page for your first reappearance! Bishonen | talk 21:19, 31 December 2012 (UTC).

My best wishes, Ma'am, to both your good self and His Excellency, your saintly nephew, for the coming year. May all your family, both animate and otherwise, as well as all of the Bishes, both large and small, enjoy good health and prosperity. From my little house on the prairie, --RexxS (talk) 00:25, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Rex is British, dearie. Maybe you were meaning to mention frontiersman MONGO, strider of the wilderness, subduer of the grizzly? Bishonen | talk 12:11, 1 January 2013 (UTC).

My dear Bishonen and the fine Lady Catherine...I assure you we are doing all we can to rid the frontier of my half-nephew, the vile and dreaded MONGO. He was last seen, having broke free of his steel leash, wandering aimlessly through the streets of metropolitan Pigs Knuckle, Montana. Several skunks reported to us that they could smell his stench from a distance in excess of 10 kilometres, so we shall likely have little difficulty locating it in its latest fecal lair. Its a disgusting beast, the dreaded MONGO, but once we have that hairy troll back in irons, we'll post our royal sentries to provide round the clock guard duty, case it slips its shackles yet again. Fear not, mightly Bishonen and my Lady, I'll make sure my disgusting half-nephew MONGO, whose father we can't speak about, never again tarnishes this realm. Your humble and dedicated 63rd-cousin, Baron von MONGO

Huh? Where little MONGO, RAWWRRR? Mommy | Bear 21:18, 3 January 2013 (UTC).

Why do we have to wait until May 2013 for a new and improved Misplaced Pages? I'd prefer it got here in January. No matter, I suppose. Happy New Year to those of you classy enough to have this talk page on your watchlist. --Floquenbeam (talk) 00:39, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

It's the only page on my watchlist. Now that's class. --Famously Sharp (talk) 00:48, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Now how does 'zilla get in that tiny house? Rich Farmbrough, 05:19, 1 January 2013 (UTC).

Aha! I feared some wikilawyer would ask that, yet the answer seemed a little complicated to unfold in the image caption, and I hoped the smarter of my readers would be able to figure it out. (Well, maybe they did.) Rich, dear, Zilla is on the outside, all around the house. What you see is a view from her pocket (not the regular pocket with the infrared heating, but the special one with the freezing plant), where she keeps Bishonen and the smaller socks in the winter, for cosiness. See the attractive way the pocket lining is landscaped around the igloo? Compare the way it's drizzling in Stockholm right now — typical enough, this time of year. It's wet, it's dark. But the bishonen conglomerate enjoy all this beauty! There's a Christmas tree in the igloo, and mulled wine. Bishonen | talk 12:11, 1 January 2013 (UTC).

Well! It is obvious now you point it out. I could do with some mulled wine and co-sines since I have been up for some 48 hours with the flu, working on the most depressing parts of Misplaced Pages I can find. (Mind the New Year's fireworks were a bright spot.) So here's to 2013! ...what's left of it! Rich Farmbrough, 02:36, 2 January 2013 (UTC).

Happy New Year ...

Ms. Bish, and please extend my warm wishes to the entire family. <looks up>, and your honorable ladyship - please extend good wishes to your nephew(?) Giano as well. I hope everyone (TPS etc) has a wonderful and safe 2013. — Ched :  ?  21:42, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Male members

Yes, it's an odd form of words but the quote comes from a non-native speaker of English, so he's quite possibly not aware of the double meaning... Prioryman (talk) 17:37, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Hmmm. The hell you say. Here it is as printed in the source:

"The most common reaction is that it's very old, you know, a bit shrunken," he said, "and the male members say 'oh, I hope mine will not look like this when I get old."

You can listen to the curator actually saying it, here. His English is very good (Icelanders are practically bilingual with English), but the word "members" is kind of mumbly. "The male uh errs". Inaudible, really. Does he really say "members" (or possibly "visitors"? and is there whatever a "tape splice" would be called today, right there?) The word "members", male or not, is far-fetched in the context. 'Members of the reaction', doesn't make a lot of sense, and the Wikipedian fix, 'members of the visitors' isn't much better. I think the transcribing journalist made a mistake and possibly was also trying to be funny. But obviously it's that text that has to be quoted, shrug. Bishonen | talk 20:56, 3 January 2013 (UTC).

Happy New Year!

		Best wishes for the New Year!
		Wishing you and yours a joyous, healthful, and productive 2013! Please accept a belated thank you for the well wishes upon my retirement as FAC delegate this year, and apologies for the false alarm of my first—and hopefully last—retirement; the well wishes extended me were most kind, but I decided to return, re-committed, when another blocked sock was revealed as one of the factors aggravating the FA pages this year. Maintaining standards in featured content requires vigilance, dedication and knowledge of people like you, who are needed; reviews are always welcome at FAC, FAR and TFA requests. Somehow, somehow we never ever seem to do nothin' completely nice and easy, but here's hoping that 2013 will see a peaceful road ahead and a return to the quality and comaraderie that defines the FA process, with the help of many dedicated Wikipedians! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 20:59, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

And to you too, Sandy. Since you're well aware of my last experience of the FAR camaraderie, I'm sure you don't really expect me to go back for more in 2013. Bishonen | talk 12:02, 4 January 2013 (UTC).

Yep :) SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:20, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Love in a Cold Climate

My dear Mrs Bishonen,

Here we all are, the whole family returned from the quiet piste of our Alpine Castle fully invigorated and ready to go. I am having a slight staffing problem; Miss Corpus has not returned from her Christmas sojourn in Las Vegas and the Rev Deepthought has clearly been overdoing the Eucharistic wine in my absence. Hence, here I am in personage.

I have a small problem; beloved Giano obviously over invigorated from his winter sports has dived straight into matters sexual – mistresses! I do think that this edit of his needs your knowledgeable opinion . Naturally, like all ladies of refinement and good breeding, I know nothing of the subject, but I immediately thought of you as an expert. Although, why anyone in such a far flung, ice bound, glacial part of Empire as the Nordics has the inclination for such matters, I can’t imagine – something to do with all those hours of darkness and the TV being full of the population murdering each other in large wooly jumpers I suppose - even poor dear Camilla is now chattering on about it.

I shall leave this delicate matter in your most capable hands, as I am extremely busy running Misplaced Pages, not to mention my numerous social engagements and being constantly pestered by poor ‘You Know Who’ to lunch with him at the Savoy Grill – What a dear, old man, I expect he wants some advice on how to manage his hard earned retirement, which I implore him to take. Much love The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 09:33, 8 January 2013 (UTC)