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| Just answered another question on the ] page and saw your old unresolved issue there about ]. Didn't know if it was still an issue, since the question was several years old, but thought I'd look into it and reply. Hope this helps. Thank you. -- ] (]) 15:03, 6 February 2013 (UTC) | Just answered another question on the ] page and saw your old unresolved issue there about ]. Didn't know if it was still an issue, since the question was several years old, but thought I'd look into it and reply. Hope this helps. Thank you. -- ] (]) 15:03, 6 February 2013 (UTC) | ||
| == A barnstar for you! == | |||
| {| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;" | |||
| |rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ] | |||
| |style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The Barnstar of Diligence''' | |||
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| |style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Good Job ] (]) 21:09, 6 February 2013 (UTC) | |||
| |} | |||
Revision as of 21:09, 6 February 2013
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Talk to me, Andy Mabbett
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Help with infobox template creation
I come here kind of converted (after I reverted you many times) and ask for your help in creating an infobox template. I managed to use an existing one in Chor von St. Bonifatius and got help for the pic cropping ;) Now I would like to have one for the Bach cantatas (about 200) and started, after the model choir, here. One problem I see: the page name (example BWV 40: Darzu ist erschienen der Sohn Gottes, BWV 40) is not the wanted name, only the text portion of it, the BWV # should go separately. Where to place Johann Sebastian Bach? Please feel free to change and advise, perhaps right there, I'll watch, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:05, 14 December 2012 (UTC)
- You have separate
|name=and|title=parameters; is that deliberate, or is one redundant?|name=will default to using the page's title, if you don't enter a value, but if you enter, say|name=Darzu ist erschienen der Sohn Gottesthat will display. Do all the cantatas have German names; and should we also include an English translation? Are there cantatas by other composers, for whom this infobox could also be used? I've moved the template to {{Infobox Bach cantata}} and made some tweaks, and will do more once you've answer this. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:40, 15 December 2012 (UTC)- Thank you! (I didn't know enough to tell the difference between title and name, nor about the default, learning.) I thought about it some more and think we might expand it to Bach compositions in general, then we might use the BWV number for the title and have the (longish) German title in smaller print. I am not enthusiastic about a translation, because there are always several, none of them is a title, only attempts, not even the German ones are titles, they are known by the first line of text, - some make sense, others not. I also thought about more parameters like key, number of movements, number of chorales. Actually, then every chorale might get a year/poet/composer. The German WP has always the same picture of old Bach, but that is way too old for 95% of his compositions. I would rather use one for the first location of performance. - After polishing a bit more we should discuss it with project Classical, of course ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:10, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
- I shall look forward to that. Are you happy to proceed with the changes you suggest, or do you need help from me? Shout if and when you do. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:21, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
- I will sing when I need help, more likely tomorrow. (watching here) - As I complete surprise, I heard BWV 36 yesterday! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:29, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
- I shall look forward to that. Are you happy to proceed with the changes you suggest, or do you need help from me? Shout if and when you do. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:21, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you! (I didn't know enough to tell the difference between title and name, nor about the default, learning.) I thought about it some more and think we might expand it to Bach compositions in general, then we might use the BWV number for the title and have the (longish) German title in smaller print. I am not enthusiastic about a translation, because there are always several, none of them is a title, only attempts, not even the German ones are titles, they are known by the first line of text, - some make sense, others not. I also thought about more parameters like key, number of movements, number of chorales. Actually, then every chorale might get a year/poet/composer. The German WP has always the same picture of old Bach, but that is way too old for 95% of his compositions. I would rather use one for the first location of performance. - After polishing a bit more we should discuss it with project Classical, of course ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:10, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
Bach composition
I changed a bit, started {{Infobox Bach composition}}, and announced that, (keeping the other in case 2 are wanted). If "composition", the variables for voices would be optional. Assuming we wanted several variables for each chorale (title, poet, year, composer), how would that look? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:17, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
I added "type", and followed the date example in BWV 36 and 152. Could you please start the documentation? It looks like it's there to stay ;) - Where can we define the abbreviations for scoring? At present they are in the List of Bach cantatas, linked for cantatas but not other works, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:01, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Done. I've moved the scoring to the end, under a linked sub-heading. Note the markup in the example, which is different from that in the live article. Please copy it back there if or when you're happy with it. Do you think, for example, that {{abbr|Cemb|cembalo}}, which renders as Cemb, would be better if it was entered as {{abbr|Cemb|harpsichord}} and rendered as Cemb? (You may get a pop-up "tool-tip", if you hover your mouse over those, depending on which browser you use). We could create a template for each, such as {{harpsichord}}, to make data entry more intuitive; but not all the desired names may be available.
Also, I note that you have "ATB" (no spaces) but "S A T B" (with spaces). Perhaps both should be rendered as a list, using {{flatlist}}? For example:
- S
- A
- T
- B
and perhaps "2Co" should be rendered as "2×Co"?
Finally (for now!) can {{Infobox Bach cantata}} be redirected to {{Infobox Bach composition}}, or deleted? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:46, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for your ideas! Beginning in the end: the questions (one or two templates, if one which name) should be answered by (slow) Classical music, let's perhaps redirect cantata for now. Its A T B for the soloists because they almost always sing one after the other, SATB because they sing almost always together, both consistent with the infobox in German. SATB is so common an abbreviation that I would hesitate to spell it out. The abbr for instruments are not quite as common, but well known among musicians, - for the others: it's all there in prose in the article. Let's keep thinking. Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:06, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- I'll do the redirect shortly. Abbreviations need to be marked up as shown, even if they are explained elsewhere in the article. You could use, say, {{abbr|SATB|soprano, alto, tenor and bass}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:14, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- To write "soprano, alto, tenor and bass" is like writing "Doctor" instead of "Dr.", "International Business Machines" instead of "IBM", would you? SATB even has an article, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:22, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- For the latter, probably not, as "IBM" is, I believe, now the formal name of the company. For "doctor", certainly - and that is far more widely understood by the general public than "SATB". If SATB exists, then it should be a link in the infobox. ] should do it; it renders as SATB. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:37, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- To write "soprano, alto, tenor and bass" is like writing "Doctor" instead of "Dr.", "International Business Machines" instead of "IBM", would you? SATB even has an article, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:22, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- I'll do the redirect shortly. Abbreviations need to be marked up as shown, even if they are explained elsewhere in the article. You could use, say, {{abbr|SATB|soprano, alto, tenor and bass}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:14, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for starting the documentation. I suggest let's leave Cosima alone for now, more interested in my promised article (linked today) - which made me add fields ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:51, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
See history of BWV 105 for a comment on beauty. I could do without a background colour for the heading ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:03, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
- Disappointing to see you reverted there. I've removed the colour; let me know if you prefer some other (pastel?), shade Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:08, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
- I like this. No idea about the owner's preferences ;) - losing people is worse than a revert for lack of beauty, just happened again, - I am getting too used to it, screamed only the first time (top of my talk) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:18, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
- Now the owner designed his own on Classical music. What would it mean, technically, to have occasion,date and location of first performance all three in one para? - I found it separate in de and fr. There are many works without knowledge of a first performance, but I would still like to mention a location for those. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:59, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
- There are two issues; how the date is entered, and how it is displayed. It is important that data such as location and date of first performances are entered as separate parameters (in other words, that there is a high degree of granularity). How it is displayed is an aesthetic preference, and I have no strong view, not least because (unlike data granularity) changes can easily be applied later). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:29, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
- How would a display of two data, entered separately but shown in one line, look like? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:15, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
- There are two issues; how the date is entered, and how it is displayed. It is important that data such as location and date of first performances are entered as separate parameters (in other words, that there is a high degree of granularity). How it is displayed is an aesthetic preference, and I have no strong view, not least because (unlike data granularity) changes can easily be applied later). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:29, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
- Now the owner designed his own on Classical music. What would it mean, technically, to have occasion,date and location of first performance all three in one para? - I found it separate in de and fr. There are many works without knowledge of a first performance, but I would still like to mention a location for those. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:59, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
- I like this. No idea about the owner's preferences ;) - losing people is worse than a revert for lack of beauty, just happened again, - I am getting too used to it, screamed only the first time (top of my talk) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:18, 1 January 2013 (UTC)
It depends. If you have, say a town and country, you can use:
data8 = {{{town|}}}, {{{country|}}}
which will give;
- Town, Country
but if one or other value is missing, you still get the comma:
- Town,
- , Country
so you need to build in conditional statements. That's at the limit of my expertise. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:06, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
- Makes me think we should leave it separate if possible ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:12, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
- I made a few changes
- just Translation - below the title, the repetition seems redundant
- have field now which combine in one line date and location (both composed and performed)
- drop "first", open to list more than one performace, such as US premiere ;)
- please check, I am new to this, applied only in my sandbox so far, but will make the round, and adjust the doc --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:20, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- not in your sandbox; but that looks fine. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:32, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- I changed the template itself, but applied the data changes only in my Bach sandbox (then), - now also in BWV 40 41 63, more to come. - I thought it would solve to list more than one performance, but realize: no. How would that work, to have more than one set of date & location? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:48, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- not in your sandbox; but that looks fine. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:32, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Merge the parameters on one line, and enter thus:
| performance = {{Plainlist| * {{Start date|1723|7|25|df=y}}, ] * 1 August 1723, ] }}
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:54, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- That would not work at present, performance is a combination of two data fields, - can you fix that? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:11, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Th only way to do that is to have
|performance1=,|date1=,|performance2=,|date2=,|performance3=,|date3=, etc. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:21, 4 January 2013 (UTC)- That's what I saw coming, not too elegant. - Different idea: a template "event" instead of "Start date" that has the location as an additional parameter? Or is there something available already? Bach's works are probably not the only performances that might profit from such a thing? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:37, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Like {{Timeline-event}}? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:42, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Like it, yes, but instead of the event it would be a location, and instead of dates on a timeline, it would be just dates. Example: BWV 63 was first performed on Christmas Day between 1713 and 1717 in Halle (we don't know exactly which year, nor the place), for sure in 1723 in Leipzig. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:03, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- I "forced" the second performance there, but it's not the most elegant way ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:51, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Though that looks OK, the metadata now says the piece was performed on 25 December 1713, in a location called "]? 25 December 1723 Leipzig". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:01, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- That's what I called "not most elegant". Should we set up 3 performances, and whoever needs a fourth, may adjust? If yes, would you do that? - Different question: how to say that we are not sure about a date or a place? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:32, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Sure; I'm a bit busy now (or should be!), but will get on it later. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:42, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- That's what I called "not most elegant". Should we set up 3 performances, and whoever needs a fourth, may adjust? If yes, would you do that? - Different question: how to say that we are not sure about a date or a place? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:32, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Though that looks OK, the metadata now says the piece was performed on 25 December 1713, in a location called "]? 25 December 1723 Leipzig". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:01, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Like {{Timeline-event}}? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:42, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- That's what I saw coming, not too elegant. - Different idea: a template "event" instead of "Start date" that has the location as an additional parameter? Or is there something available already? Bach's works are probably not the only performances that might profit from such a thing? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:37, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
- Th only way to do that is to have
Sets of similar Bach compositions
I ran into a new question. There are groups of compositions handled in one article, I looked at Missa (Bach) first, but there will be harpsichord concertos etc.. Scoring can be named only generally, is different for the single works, - so is key. Can the appearance of the header "Scoring" be conditional, only if at least one of the three individual scoring fields is not empty? Could there be more than one infobox in an article, in Missa we might have 5 individual ones on top of the summary? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:05, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
Aother of those cases : Christmas Oratorio, in six parts, each a different scoring, different day of first performance, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:01, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
And of course the Brandenburg concertos, 6 with very different scoring --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:23, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
To simplify, I changed Scoring from header to data. How can that appear even if nothing is entered, to have the link to the abbreviations? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:18, 6 January 2013 (UTC)
By now, I changed that, please check if the "forced" display is acceptable, example BWV 40. Four more precise scoring, I suggest to have additional paras, "solo_voice' (if only one), "solo_instrument", "solo_instruments". Or is there a good reason to have "notable work(s)"? Wouldn't "work" mean the same, less ugly (borrowed word from a critique)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:24, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Sorry for lack of response; I haven't forgotten you, just busy IRL. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 00:09, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- no problem, no rush, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 00:14, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
- BWV 40 just became a GA, thanks to the infobox ;) - Before copying more, I would like to see a solution to the multiple occurrences of a parameter with two data, such as in performance: "location" "date". One more question: if a date or place is not certain, is it enough to add a "?", or should it be somewhat more formal? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:49, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
Where, if at all, would we include if it was Annual cycle I, II, III? A separate para seems awkward. - How could the location in the "years active" also be metadata, - similar question as "composed" and "performed", 2 fields connected, several occurences. - How can we say how many parts (if needed)? Some cantatas have two, Christmas oratorio 6, each part can have its number of movements, on top of the sum of all movements? That's more a question of logic than music ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:58, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
- For location with years active; consider using {{Timeline-event}}, which I've just updated for this purpose. For example, {{Timeline-event|date={{Start date|1723}}|end_date={{End date|1750}}|location=Leipzig}} I'm pondering other issues. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:59, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
- Taken to Bach! - something like that might work for "Notable work", giving title and location and/or earliest/latest date(s), whatever known, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:58, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
- ps: BWV 105 added again, reverted again, but found a helper ;) - made a DYK with 4 cantatas, all with an infobox ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:48, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
- Had to remove 105 from the samples (again). - In {{start date}}, is there a way to have the date not split in two lines? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:59, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
- Try <nowrap>{{Timeline-event|date={{Start date|1723}}|end_date={{End date|1750}}|location=Leipzig}}</nowrap>. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:02, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
- in the template? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:23, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
- In the data field of the infobox, in an article. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:40, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
- doesn't work for start date, didn't try timeline because that might make the box to broad, to have location AND date in one line, the example is BWV 198, also an example for 2 parts, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:46, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
- I made some changes in the template. Try now Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:14, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
- Helped for now, thank you! - What if there's no date for composition? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:13, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
- I made some changes in the template. Try now Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:14, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
- doesn't work for start date, didn't try timeline because that might make the box to broad, to have location AND date in one line, the example is BWV 198, also an example for 2 parts, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:46, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
- In the data field of the infobox, in an article. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:40, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
- in the template? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:23, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
- Try <nowrap>{{Timeline-event|date={{Start date|1723}}|end_date={{End date|1750}}|location=Leipzig}}</nowrap>. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:02, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
If there are such cases, we'd need to write more complex, condtional code. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:15, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
- or leave it - often we don't know. I try to keep things simple, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:27, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker)
{{start date}}just needs this change, which will also bring it in line with{{end date}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:36, 16 January 2013 (UTC)- I've just spotted this - and it's now obvious why
{{start date}}wasn't working - there was a missing pipe. That is, instead of{{Start date|1723df=y}}(which displays as () i.e. nothing at all), it should have been{{Start date|1723|df=y}}(which displays as 1723 (1723)). Since there are neither day nor month, the|df=ymay be omitted, to give{{Start date|1723}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:58, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- I've just spotted this - and it's now obvious why
- (talk page stalker)
Parameters
I tried to add a parameter for Cantata cycle, just in case it might be wanted. First problem: someow I lost the last one, Obbligato, in the process of renumbering and am blind for my mistake. Second: could that parameter be there, but not shown? Not to repeat to those who know that every chorale belongs to II, Leipzig before is I etc. Thirdly, if shown, can something like Cantata cycle be applied? To have two lines of label for one number seems awkward. Or should the information rather be added elsewhere? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:51, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
|cantata_cycle=is working fine; when you update a /doc page you may need to purge it before you see the changes transcluded on the parent template page. You could use {{nowrap|Cantata cycle}}, but why not just "Cycle"? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:21, 19 January 2013 (UTC)|cantata_cycle=is working fine, it's|obbligato=which is not. - Why not cycle: because the template is meant to be general for all compositions, and an editor of a keyboard work may have no idea what that parameter is about. (I don't trust them to actually read the doc, knowing how I work.) - I recommended an infobox in FAC Richard Wagner and a composition PR ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:47, 19 January 2013 (UTC)- I'm at a loss to understand why
|obbligato=isn't showing; you might get help on WP:VPT. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:35, 19 January 2013 (UTC)- will look (yesterday I found a missing comma where another user had starred and found nothing, I hoped you would be the one this time) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:18, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) The
|obbligato=- is the problem that the parameter doesn't work when used in articles that use{{Infobox Bach composition}}, or that it doesn't show on the doc page for that infobox? --Redrose64 (talk) 16:08, 19 January 2013 (UTC)- Excellent question, it does appear in BWV 32! (Missed that.) But not in the template doc. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:19, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- Fixed --Redrose64 (talk) 16:44, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- Doh! Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:51, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you, - I said I was blind ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:12, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- Doh! Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:51, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- Fixed --Redrose64 (talk) 16:44, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- Excellent question, it does appear in BWV 32! (Missed that.) But not in the template doc. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:19, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- (talk page stalker) The
- will look (yesterday I found a missing comma where another user had starred and found nothing, I hoped you would be the one this time) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:18, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
- I'm at a loss to understand why
I added one more parameter, |known_as=, for nick names, this time without problems ;) - I think the template is stable enough now to be inserted. I added accessibility to the goals of WP:QAI. Feel invited to become a member! (Infobox Wagner is started in my sandbox, comments welcome before the battle.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:14, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
- All good stuff. Thanks for letting me know. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:56, 21 January 2013 (UTC)
More general
Did you see my question on Classical about {{Infobox musical composition}}? Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:06, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- I've added
|Key=, {{para|Movements}] and|Related=. I'll happily do the rest, if you can be a little more specific. Do you want all the text and scoring parameters from {{Infobox Bach composition}}? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:32, 27 December 2012 (UTC)- Actually, we would need much more if we wanted to cover the instruments of a 20th century orchestra. One step after the other, I would say, and ask the project ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:41, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- Feel free to draw up a list once you've one that, and I'll implement it for you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:49, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- (ec) I started here, scoring could just say string orchestra (as here), wind quintet, large orchestra, piano trio, without specifying instruments for the moment. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:51, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- next Agnus Dei (Barber) (remember, written with dedication): I think room for a pic would be good, could be composer or score - or nothing, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:18, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- There's
|Cover=for images. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:50, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- There's
- Actually, we would need much more if we wanted to cover the instruments of a 20th century orchestra. One step after the other, I would say, and ask the project ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:41, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
University president
Which infobox do you recommend for Erich Barke? (birthday tomorrow, would be a nice gift) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:06, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- {{Infobox person}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:14, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- Anything more specific? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:24, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- No. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:30, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- Anything more specific? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:24, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Composers
Thanks, helped, - how about composers? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:33, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- {{Infobox person}} or {{Infobox musical artist}} (the latter particularly for performing composers, like Michael Nyman) . {{Infobox composer}} exits, but is a hamstrung version of the former, designed only to prevent its features being used, and with no benefits. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:46, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- I tried the performer on Graham Waterhouse, a start. I can see why the project isn't happy with the infobox ;) I don't need the heading "background" - what else? For a European person, I would prefer ddmmyyyy format for the birthday. I would like to mention where he studied, teachers, notable works. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:23, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- Some members of that project are not happy with any infobox. I've fixed the date display for you, using
|df=yin the date template. You can, of course, propose changing or removing the heading, on the infobox's talk page. Or just switch to {{Infobox person}}, which also has the additional fields you desire. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:43, 27 December 2012 (UTC)- Thanks for help and precision ;) Good comment on Cosima! I will look at Person again, I must have missed parameters, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:49, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- Specifically,
|education=and|alma_mata=for studying. And thank you for your kind words; its a pleasure to work with you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:59, 27 December 2012 (UTC)- Shared pleasure! I found education and added works, including my grave dance. I miss - for a composer - publisher and label. Getting closer to presenting to the project ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:22, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- Specifically,
- Thanks for help and precision ;) Good comment on Cosima! I will look at Person again, I must have missed parameters, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:49, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
- Some members of that project are not happy with any infobox. I've fixed the date display for you, using
- I tried the performer on Graham Waterhouse, a start. I can see why the project isn't happy with the infobox ;) I don't need the heading "background" - what else? For a European person, I would prefer ddmmyyyy format for the birthday. I would like to mention where he studied, teachers, notable works. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:23, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
I was challenged about Bach and thought about him ;) - He was active at distinct times in different locations, different types of works those locations. Is there a way to show that in an infobox? He's probably not the only one. - Cosima: of course all these FAs don't have an infobox because they are mostly composers, - what a surprise; --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:35, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- If Bach's periods of activity are distinct and named, you could have a
|period=parameter. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:44, 30 December 2012 (UTC)- Not there yet in "person", right? any other, with example? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:55, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry; misunderstood. You could perhaps use Infobox person's
|style=,|movement=, or|years_active=, entering multiple values using {{Plainlist}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:59, 30 December 2012 (UTC)- Let me understand: so far I avoided "style" as too narrow, "movement" showed as political, - I would like to list concertos in Köthen (certain time), cantatas in Leipzig (later), simple approach, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:16, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- Sorry; misunderstood. You could perhaps use Infobox person's
- Not there yet in "person", right? any other, with example? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:55, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
| JSB | |
|---|---|
| Years active |
|
Something like the adjacent, perhaps Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:22, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- Looks good! Then perhaps add times/places to works for the connection? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:48, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- Sure. I've done some work on City of Bath Bach Choir, BTW. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:14, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- Seen ;) - could use a lot of work, many more compositions should be linked, today I found a cantata with the wrong BWV # ... - but I'm still working on a cantata for New Year's Day ;) - watch my Bach sandbox for the composer, next year --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:24, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- Sure. I've done some work on City of Bath Bach Choir, BTW. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:14, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
- Looks good! Then perhaps add times/places to works for the connection? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:48, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
I started the Master, in my sandbox, below the other, please have a look, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:25, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Redux
Right, what still needs doing, and how can I help? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:52, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
- I'll start a new section ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:21, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
- Some bits from here:
- should we have alt text para for pic in "Bach composition"?
- could their be image along with cover as a para for a pic in "Musical composition"? - for so many compositions it would not be a cover
- can/should a parameter be specified but not shown, for example genre, redundant if there's type?
- ps: project WP:QAI is missing its most important people as you may know, - you could easily become one of them and make a difference ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:38, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
- thank you for precious support --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:16, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
- What do you think of writing a QAI page on accessibility for beginners? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:50, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
- I've already started drafting a page at User:Pigsonthewing/Technical robustness; not about accessibility per se, but issues of technical robustness which address accessibility and other issues. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:49, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
- great! - did you know? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:08, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
- I've already started drafting a page at User:Pigsonthewing/Technical robustness; not about accessibility per se, but issues of technical robustness which address accessibility and other issues. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 10:49, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for splitting the different numbers in BWV 82: that results in an extra line. Could we have the same for the others? Or no line for both? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:32, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- I'm not sure which numbers you mean: BWV or performance dates? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:03, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- BWV (you didn't change the other) ;) - --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:45, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- Oh yes I did! ;-) I used {{Plainlist}} for the BWV numbers; you can do the same, or switch to {{Flatlist}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:58, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- ok, I mean this, it's flat now, result 3 lines, if I use plain I get an additional line for every additional number on top of that, which is worse, - Missa (Bach) has 5! - different question: if I use nowrap around a performance, it shows "nowrap" - instead of working, what did I overlook this time? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:19, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- Diff, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:35, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- test --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:51, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- Should be {{nowrap|{{Start date|2012|02|01|df=y}}}}; my bad. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:10, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- looks promising, thanks! is the leading zero for month and day wanted? - how about the other q? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:51, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- Leading zeros remind the editors that there's not a missing "1" or "2". What have I missed? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:06, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- looks promising, thanks! is the leading zero for month and day wanted? - how about the other q? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:51, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- Should be {{nowrap|{{Start date|2012|02|01|df=y}}}}; my bad. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:10, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- test --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:51, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- Diff, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:35, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- ok, I mean this, it's flat now, result 3 lines, if I use plain I get an additional line for every additional number on top of that, which is worse, - Missa (Bach) has 5! - different question: if I use nowrap around a performance, it shows "nowrap" - instead of working, what did I overlook this time? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:19, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- Oh yes I did! ;-) I used {{Plainlist}} for the BWV numbers; you can do the same, or switch to {{Flatlist}}. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:58, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- BWV (you didn't change the other) ;) - --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:45, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
The question about the many lines once you have a list of BWV numbers, including an empty one, vs. just one if it's one BWV number --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:37, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Richard Wagner
Richard Wagner was born on 22 May 1813, a reason to celebrate. His article is up for FAC.
- I suggested an infobox, in my sandbox, please look. How would I start a new line for the translation of a title?
- I suggested template lang, and even "permitted" to add it to Wagner, - do terms get marked the first time or every time?
- What I don't like in infobox person: Work(s), Spouse(s), these brackets. Could we have work or works, spouse or spouses, as we have page or pages in cite templates? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:30, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
- I agree about brackets; that's a perennial discussion at Template talk:Infobox person. In a meeting; so will look at other issues later. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:59, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
- Non-English text should be marked up with {{lang}} at each occurrence. You can use <br /> to create new lines. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:05, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- thanks, new lines done, more to come, I am sure. - In general: I read in the FAC about "not a FA requirement", - how can we influence the FA process to at least encourage accessibility, if not require it for new articles? Can you tell them specifically what to reach for? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:05, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
- I've tried, and will do again, to do so in small steps. The recent changes on headings was a good move. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:36, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
- thanks, new lines done, more to come, I am sure. - In general: I read in the FAC about "not a FA requirement", - how can we influence the FA process to at least encourage accessibility, if not require it for new articles? Can you tell them specifically what to reach for? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:05, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
Congratulations to your impressive milestone, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:32, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
- Thank you. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:36, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Timeline
I like the timeline concept in Wagner. How would that be applied to {{Infobox Bach composition}}, more than one entry possible for both "composed" and "performed"? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:33, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- Do you have an example? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:17, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- I use it in BWV 18, but it doesn't show right because the template expects date_composed and location_composed. I am not sure how to change the template. The equivalent field in {{Infobox person}} looks complicated ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:25, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- I have now 4 performances in BWV 82 which will be on the Main page tomorrow, please check. There is a "–" showing because of "location", I am not sure how to get rid of it, chaging the template, without creating a mess. The cantata will be on the Main page tomorrow, the other one a little later ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:51, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- That parameter is only set up for one performance; I'd just list the first. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:18, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) The problem here is that you're putting a timeline inside another timeline.
{{Infobox Bach composition}}expects two parameters,|date_performed=and|location_performed=, which are then fed into{{Timeline-event}}. However, in Ich habe genug, BWV 82, you're leaving|location_performed=blank but passing a plainlist (containing four{{Timeline-event}}s) through|date_performed=. If you want to show multiple performances, I think that you need a separate parameter which accepts ready-processed data, and which doesn't attempt to do further processing on it. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:20, 1 February 2013 (UTC)- Thank you, both! I kept the template simple, please check, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:53, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) The problem here is that you're putting a timeline inside another timeline.
- That parameter is only set up for one performance; I'd just list the first. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:18, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- I have now 4 performances in BWV 82 which will be on the Main page tomorrow, please check. There is a "–" showing because of "location", I am not sure how to get rid of it, chaging the template, without creating a mess. The cantata will be on the Main page tomorrow, the other one a little later ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:51, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- I use it in BWV 18, but it doesn't show right because the template expects date_composed and location_composed. I am not sure how to change the template. The equivalent field in {{Infobox person}} looks complicated ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:25, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Dates
In {{start date}} and {{end date}}, I could imagine a parameter saying   or not, because sometimes I would want to force it, sometimes not. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:37, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- You can use <nowrap>{{Start date|2012|02|01|df=y}}</nowrap>. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:15, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- I thought of this but would prefer to have an option --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:42, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- Ah, yes. See Template talk:Start date#Non-breaking spaces. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:51, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- I thought of this but would prefer to have an option --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:42, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
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{{Marriage}} and {{event}}
The TfD has now closed, with a result that was to be expected considering how much heat was generated. If you fancy coding up a simple new version of both templates which can easily be used to substitute the existing transclusions without the broken uF data then let me know and I'll see if I can get the closing admin to agree to substitution. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 11:37, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
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Great username...
...part one or two...? 
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Tullow Oil
Hi - I am very confused by your amendments to Tullow Oil. I had re-written the material using sources that do not require a subscription. I am not clear whether the problems were caused by problems in Ghana or Uganda or both. Are you able to access the Sunday Times and sort this out? Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 23:27, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- I suggest you take this up with the editor whose content I re-added. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 23:35, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
- OK. I suppose he must have access to the Sunday Times! Best wishes. Dormskirk (talk) 23:39, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
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UoB 4 Feb 2013
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Clarification sought on use of Talk pages to resolve edit disputes
I wonder whether you are able to help on this.
For the first time I am trying to resolve a dispute with another editor by discussion, following the procedure recommended on the page, Dispute Resolution. To start this I posted on the other editor's talk page, explaining I wished to initiate a discussion, and he replied briefly on my talk page. The discussion is now likely to become quite detailed and extensive, so if we continue in this fragmented manner it will be difficult for anyone else to follow. Should we continue on a single talk page, e.g. mine, with each of us adding new posts (or editing the previous one) or should we transfer the discussion to the talk page of the material in dispute?
--Socialambulator (talk) 11:49, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- Most editors prefer to concentrate discussion on one talk page; whether it's one or other of your talk pages, or that of the article concerned is less critical, but I suggest the latter is bast. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:32, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks.
--Socialambulator (talk) 20:13, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
WP on hand-held devices
In an earlier exchange of views (apropos of info-boxes – pax!), you mentioned how WP looks on hand-held devices. May I ask for your thoughts on a related matter? I have lately been PR-ing Description of the Western Isles of Scotland, and commented "On my screen (a smallish one) the pictures after cause a four-inch gap of white space before ." My smallish screen is a desktop affair, not a hand-held device, and I wonder:
- is it helpful to comment on white space in layouts when WP appears on so many different-sized screens?
- are there any guidelines for placement of images with hand-held devices in mind?
Any comments gratefully received. Tim riley (talk) 20:01, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- In the first case, generally, no. In the second, no; Misplaced Pages's mobile view displays images thus: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/Description_of_the_Western_Isles_of_Scotland Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:11, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- Thanks for that. I'll pursue accordingly. Tim riley (talk) 21:13, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
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Old unresolved at Template:Election box.
Just answered another question on the Template talk:Election box page and saw your old unresolved issue there about hcard microformats. Didn't know if it was still an issue, since the question was several years old, but thought I'd look into it and reply. Hope this helps. Thank you. -- JoannaSerah (talk) 15:03, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
|
The Barnstar of Diligence |
| Good Job Dove1954 (talk) 21:09, 6 February 2013 (UTC) |