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Galassi

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Galassi

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

My very best wishes (talk) 22:47, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Galassi (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:DIGWUREN#Standard_discretionary_sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. April 5
2. April 6
3. April 21: It tells "See relevant discussions..." here and here. First discussion was resumed by me on April 18. Second discussion was started by me on April 19.
4. April 22, same discussions.
5. 2009 (edit summary) - same accusation about another contributor, with a promise to report this to administrators, something that he actually did with me in two diffs above.
6. April 29 - Galassi blames me of "aryanizing" Vladimir Vysotsky. He apparently refers to this my edit quickly reverted by him and discussed here. But in fact, I only fixed a poorly written nationalistic POV phrase: "His father ... was a Jewish colonel in the army originally from Kiev." (see also my comments below). Aryanization is a Nazi racist ideology. What? @Galassi, do you really believe that I am a supporter of Nazi Master Race concept?
7. April 29. Galassi continue totally unsubstantiated accusations that I "insinuate" "bloodthurstiness of Ilya Ehrenburg". No, I respect this writer. Yes, Agranov masterminded many Stalinist trials, as described in many books. The ethnicity of Agranov and Ehreburg is completely irrelevant. None of them is notable for their ethnicity. Bringing their ethnicity in discussion (as Galassi did during the previous AE and continue here) is an example of "The Plague".

These are unsubstantiated accusations of racist bias made on administrative page and talk pages of administrators. During the previous AE request Galassi was warned by Sandstein about making such accusations , but continued doing the same at talk pages of two other administrators and during this request. There are other problematic aspects of his editing, such as edit wars and his recent topic ban violation on editing subjects related to Cossacks , but they are less important.

Here is an additional example: February 1 and January 5 reverts with accusations (edit summary) of "deliberate mistranslation/misrepresentation". This is hardly a deliberate misinterpretation .

The case falls under jurisdiction of WP:DIGWUREN because all these discussions are related to Ukrainian or Russian topics.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Diff 1 above. How on the Earth Galassi could interpret my edits here this way? I was doing exactly the opposite (see talk page here, for example). I tried to fix highly biased edits made by someone else who tried to paint this famous writer as a bloody monster by excessively citing his war time propaganda.

Diff 2 above (). I would appreciate if Galassi explained what exactly "instances" he is talking about. There was none. Once, I had a conversation with Gallassi here, but I only asked him to provide sources, and that is what he did. But I still suspect this article does not comply with our WP:BLP rules. Yes, this writer wrote a satiric essay that was regarded by many as antisemitic, but he also published 10 books that were not considered antisemitic and received 12 literary awards. The respective article on ruwiki does not describe this writer at all as antisemitic. His work was highly prized by writers of Jewish ancestry, like Ludmila Ulitskaya and Mark Zakharov.

Diffs 3 and 4. It appears that Galassi believes that if someone (like me or several other editors) argue on a talk page against describing a person (Losev or whoever) as an antisemite, then such participants must be antisemites themselves. What? For example, if I argue that someone should not be described as a criminal in his biography page, does it qualify me as a criminal?

@Volunteer Marek. Do you really believe that making such accusations is fine? What if someone was telling this about you? As about the "coup de grace", I had very few interactions with Galassi and almost all of them appear in this request. I am not interested in inserting or removing any antisemitism pieces and therefore have very little overlap of interest with Galassi. I started editing a few such subjects only after accusations made by G. during previous AE request because I started thinking about this. However, after looking at interactions of Galassi with other people including myself, I am pretty much sure he should indeed be removed from this subject area for the sake of all contributors. This is not only his personal accusations, which have no grounds whatsoever in my case, but WP:DE, edit wars, refusal to get the point in discussions, and refusal to follow WP:NPOV (after talking with him here, I am sure he does not want to even understand the policy I tried to explain ).

• Response (refuting accusations by Galassi).

Based on statement by Galassi, he means what he tells at talk pages of administrators. Actually, I expected that he will not make any comments or accept that he is wrong and apologize.

1. Vysotsky. Galassi tells about this my edit quickly reverted by Galassi . As discussed here, I made it for three reason. First, according to WP:MOS, Ethnicity or sexuality should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. Second, it was unsourced. Third, the phrase I tried to fix was telling: "His father ... was a Jewish colonel in the army originally from Kiev." This is strange phrase. What army? White army? Soviet Army? There was no ethnicity-based brigades in Soviet Army or something like that. Describing someone in Soviet Army as "Jewish colonel" is a nationalistic POV. This my edit hardly demonstrates any inappropriate bias.
2. More on alleged "aryanization". This is an extremely offensive accusation. The relevant policy on "ethnicity" is WP:MOS (Ethnicity or sexuality should not ..., see above). So, when I create biographies of Russian language poets of Jewish ancestry (for example, here or here), I usually define them in introduction as "Russian" (meaning the country and language; in these two cases the country could also be defined as "Soviet Union", no problem) and then tell about their Jewish ancestry, when appropriate. No one ever disputed this in biographies I created.
3. I did not edit Shafarevich. Others did . @Galassi, who you think was an antisemite in this case? I did remove this from Lev Gumilev article. Curiously enough, that is when I agree with Russavia . By reverting this my edit , Galassi makes a point that not only some people claim his theories were antisemitic (this is actually only a negligible minority; others criticize various scientific aspects his work), but the whole biography of Gumilev belongs to category "antisemitism". Sorry, but I do not think so .

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

User notified

Discussion concerning Galassi

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Galassi

I believe that there is a type of antisemitic POV which does not involve making openly antisemitic edits, but rather removing the mentions of reliably sourced antisemitic aspects of cultural/historical fugures, such as Igor Shafarevich, Lev Gumilev and Alexei Losev, essentially whitewashing them. Another insidious type of this POV involves "aryanization" of individuals of mixed ancestry. Such was My Best Wishes' unsummarized removal of such information from the article of Vladimir Vysotsky (a Russian national hero). (diffs forthcoming)--Galassi (talk) 07:59, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

In addition to that My Best Wishes continues antisemitic POV-pushing by insinuating "bloodthurstiness" of Ilya Ehrenburg, a Jewish poet, and of Yakov Agranov, a Jewish NKVD official, in whose article My Best Wishes insinuates that Agranov masterminded massacres on his own volition, which contradict the accepted common knowledge of Stalinism (diffs forthcoming). Furthermore, My Best Wishes brought/brings me up on charges for the edits on which we had no interaction (especially the ones on Ukrainian topics), which amounts to WIKI-STALKING.

• here he makes a veiled threat.
• makes an open threat.

Furthermore My Best Wishes brought me up on charges here originally for the express purpose of getting me out of the way, so I wouldn't be able to hinder his POV-pushing. I formally request that this case be closed as frivolous and without merit, and My Best Wishes be indefinitely banned from any interaction with me. Thank you.--Galassi (talk) 21:33, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Statement by The Devil's Advocate

This does seem like he is casting aspersions on editors and canvassing/admin-shopping at the same time. He appears to have gone to two Jewish administrators claiming there was antisemitic POV-pushing going on at these articles. I note that the previous case also concerned some problematic behavior regarding his editing about anti-semitism and Jews in this area of the world. Perhaps his topic ban should be modified to cover that as well.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 23:46, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Volunteer Marek

The diffs from April 5 and April 6 precede My Very Best Wishes' last WP:AE report so I don't see how they're relevant. I also don't see the relevance of the 2009 (!) diff.

That boils it down to essentially these two diffs: and . First note that the section title "Antisemitism, misogyny and seven deadly sins" was started by User:Estlandia (Miacek) (also back in 2009). It's purpose seems to be to trivialize things like... antisemitism and misogyny (and going by comment, homophobia, as well). And it appears to be Estlandia who's throwing around gratuitous accusations of POV pushing there. Still that's from 2009.

Then this whole controversy was restarted recently by My Very Best Wishes with this commnet and this comment by an IP.

Overall these are two articles about old school Soviet/Russian scholars who, best as I can tell, DID hold some anti-semitic views. The debate is about whether this should be represented in the articles themselves. So you gonna get a discussion about anti-semitism. In both those discussions, and I don't see any problem with Galassi's comments. Indeed, he seems to be referring to sources and Misplaced Pages policies.

The timing of this report, so quickly on the heels of the previous one which (unfairly) IMO, led to Galassi's topic ban from Ukrainian topics, and the usage of diffs from before that report, seems like a spurious attempt to administer a coup de grace to one's content opponent. I don't think there's anything actionable here.

Volunteer Marek 15:09, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Result concerning Galassi

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Dicklyon

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Dicklyon

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Apteva (talk) 07:01, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Dicklyon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Article titles and capitalisation#All parties reminded

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 30 April 2013 Have you (twice)
2. 29 April 2013 named editor, discussion directed at and about editor, not content
3. 29 April 2013 "you're wrong"
4. 29 April 2013 "you mis-parse it"
5. 28 April 2013 you, your ... agenda
6. 28 April 2013 you
7. 27 April 2013 named editor, failure to assume good faith (I am of course he or she also)

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

This is an editor who has been warned countless times not to personalize discussions, and insists on continuing.

1. Warned on 26 April 2013 by Apteva (talk · contribs)
2. Warned on 26 April 2013 by Apteva (talk · contribs)
3. Warned on 30 April 2013 by Apteva (talk · contribs)
4. Warned on 4 January 2013 by Apteva (talk · contribs)
5. Warned on 3 January 2013 by Born2cycle (talk · contribs)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This creates a very toxic editing environment that does not encourage and welcome participation.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Dicklyon

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Dicklyon

The underlying problem is embodied in the person of Apteva, not in me pointing that out. Shouldn't we insist that he respect the wishes of the community in banning him from his continuing anti-MOS disruption such as this section blanking?

I ask here again, can his topic ban be rephrased to include the part that the closer omitted from what the community had overwhelmingly endorsed? See Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive244#Continuing topic ban violations by Apteva Dicklyon (talk) 14:28, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

• Proposal – clarify Apteva's topic ban by adding the bolded phrase or something like it:

Apteva is topic banned indefinitely from modifying or discussing the use of dashes, hyphens, or similar types of punctuation, broadly construed, including but not limited to at the manual of style and any requested move discussion, and from advocating against the MOS being applicable to article titles.

As for Born2Cycle's comments below, note that he advertises his long-running campaign at User:Born2cycle#A goal: naming stability at Misplaced Pages and at User:Born2cycle/FAQ. When he ramps it up as he recently did here and continues to do here, am I not allowed to comment on that? It doesn't seem that his various warnings (including Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Article titles and capitalisation#Born2cycle warned) and pledges (including User:Born2cycle/pledge) and sanctions (most recently Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive245#Continued tendentious editing by Born2cycle) over the last several years have had much moderating influence on this disruptive behavior of domination of move discussions. Dicklyon (talk) 18:49, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Ohconfucius

It really is too early for silly season, but this request is all rather surreal. It's very possible to take things too literally, and it looks very much like a good example. Apteva has carefully chosen diffs every instance of the word "you", then uses it to accuse Dick of making a "personal" argument in the sense prohibited by the Arbcom ruling. All I see is civil discussion. Such use of "you" was most often innocent, when Dick was trying to address an answer to or comment on what Apteva said. Methinks Apteva is a month too late with this. -- Ohconfucius  11:32, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

• Indeed, B2C, beware of the Boomerang. I find myself often questioning the utility of posting to Apteva's talk page. I don't know if he's feels that a particular user is bullying him, as it is obvious from his reaction to DL, or are they so burnt out that they have become generally ultra-sensitive to criticism: but this removal, within 6 minutes, may indicate a strong streak of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. That, plus the diffs supplied by Apteva in evidence against DL – particularly the first two – strongly suggests a serotonin top-up (i.e. a holiday in the sun) would be largely beneficial. -- Ohconfucius  18:55, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Johnuniq

I suppose admins will have noticed at least some of the background which has involved enormous discussions in multiple areas. I ask that admins considering this case think of what would benefit the encylopedia, rather than basing a decision on whether "Have you read it?" is an abuse of a talk page. A tiny part of the background:

• AE: Dicklyon reported by Apteva October 2012; result: withdrawn.
• RfC/U: Apteva December 2012.
• ANI January 2013; result: Apteva topic banned.
• AE: Apteva reported by SarekOfVulcan January 2013; result: Apteva warned.

Johnuniq (talk) 11:59, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Statement by (SmokeyJoe)

The listed warnings are not less personal or confrontational than the listed violations. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 12:02, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't think that we have or want rules on the use of the second person singular pronoun, or the use of names. They are especially useful when thanking, for example. I don't feel that I know Apteva or Dicklyon very well, but have noticed, in reasonable debating, that Apteva comes across as tense, and Dicklyon comes across as direct, perhaps terse readable as snide. This combination is prone to inflame. I don't think blocks are useful in calming. The two could each be asked to not address or reference the other. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 05:06, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Apteva

This is a very serious issue that must be dealt with in an effective manner, and passing it off as otherwise is ludicrous. For example, while this editor is the worst offender that I have seen, should they be allowed this pattern of editing, it is like a cancer that spreads to other editors. I suggest a one month block (oddly, the editor in question says they are on a wikibreak), escalating to longer blocks if the pattern continues. Apteva (talk) 16:01, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

To SmokeyJoe, the correct place to use you and an editor's name is on their talk page, not at an article or project talk page. All of Dicklyon's comments that are directed to me need to be solely and only on my talk page, not snide remarks at an RM discussion. Apteva (talk) 16:05, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

To My very best wishes, the comments do a great deal of harm. There are two methods of decision making used, consensus and parliamentary, and neither permit directing comments to an individual. One requires directing comments to the group, the other to the moderator. There are no exceptions. Apteva (talk) 18:38, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

To Johnuniq, obviously the AE complaint in October 2012 should not have been withdrawn, as doing so may have reinforced the idea that there was nothing wrong with the violations that had occurred, and a specific remedy should have instead been suggested. Apteva (talk) 18:44, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

To My very best wishes, it is not a problem if an editor says "I disagree with your argument because..." once, and it can be forgiven, but it is prudent to point it out to them on their talk page that it would have been better to say "the argument" instead of "your argument" so that it does not become a habit. When it does become a habit, it becomes a very serious problem. As to "it might be a good idea to politely tell someone that they are wrong and explain why (assuming they are capable of accepting someone else criticism and improving)." I have brought this up ad nauseum (and quite politely) on the editor in question's talk page. I need someone to make it more important to them, so that they will stop. Apteva (talk) 19:27, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

This, by another editor, not Dicklyon, is the sort of post that I am objecting to. "I take it you haven't bothered to follow any of the links to BMI." Apteva (talk) 01:58, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

To Omnedon, incivility is a related, but different subject from personalization. I am only addressing personalization here. Apteva (talk) 03:07, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

To Omnedon, personalization if not as much about "talking directly to other editors" as it is talking about other editors, when the subject is not any editor, as it is on the talk page of an article or project page. See talk page guidelines. Apteva (talk) 16:36, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

To ErikHaugen, absolutely. "since you understand it much better than I do, maybe you should take the next crack at it" excludes anyone else who might want to "take the next crack". That comment belongs only and solely on the editor in question's talk page, not on the article or project talk page. This is basic talk page protocol. Apteva (talk) 17:09, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Comment by Beyond My Ken

I suggest that reviewing admins considering sanctioning Apteva for filing an entirely frivolous enforcement request, and consider Dicyklon's suggestion that Apteva's topic ban be adjusted per the original community consensus. Beyond My Ken (talk) 16:21, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Statement by The Devil's Advocate

One should note Dicklyon is the one who filed the RfC/U against Apteva that resulted in the community sanctions. Apteva filed a frivolous request regarding another editor back in January, which lead to a lot of ill will, after that editor was responsible for initiating the AE case about Apteva noted by Johnuniq above. The one who seems to be personalizing disputes the most is Apteva by filing these types of frivolous requests against various opponents.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 16:43, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Comment by My very best wishes

Perhaps I used to significantly stronger wording and accusations in another subject area, but the comments in the diffs look a little tense but more or less harmless. I do not see any reason for sanctions.

@Apteva. Yes, I partly agree: comment on content, not on the contributor. However, I do not really see a huge problem if someone tells: "I disagree with your argument because..." or "your edit is inconsistent with RS policy because...", instead of telling "this argument" and "this edit". Catching others on minor technicalities is not really a good idea. And remember, they could be right: perhaps this is your problem. In fact, it might be a good idea to politely tell someone that they are wrong and explain why (assuming they are capable of accepting someone else criticism and improving). But this is just a general idea; I only saw your diffs.My very best wishes (talk) 19:15, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, but I did not see this ANI post. Frankly, having so protracted disputes about minor technical issues is beyond imagination and disruptive. Just to clarify, I am not familiar with this case, but only looked at the diffs provided above and do not see them too disruptive per se, although the whole dispute is obviously disruptive. My very best wishes (talk) 16:09, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Comment by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge

The majority of diffs presented in this RfE are not persuasive of any gross misconduct. However, there are three that appear to cross the line:

• Apteva, seem seem to have returned to your campaign to deny that the WP:MOS applies to style in titles
• If you don't like the way the lead is stated or bold, that would be a less disruptive thing to work on than continuing to push your minimalist naming agenda.
• Apteva just likes to follow me around and disagree, it appears.

Clearly, there seems to be some sort of personalization of this dispute that should not have been personalized. Perhaps a reminder/warning to Dicklyon to not personalize disputes might be the best way of handling the situation. A short break (perhaps a month) might also be helpful. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 00:45, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Born2cycle

As a regular target and witness of Dicklyon's inappropriately personalized commentary on article/WP talk pages, I must concur with this statement of A Quest For Knowledge (talk · contribs), which I simply repeat:

However, there are three that appear to cross the line... Perhaps a reminder/warning to Dicklyon to not personalize disputes might be the best way of handling the situation.

To Quest's list of three line crossings, I would also add:

• "no need to disrupt a long-stable name just because Born2cycle finally got his way at Yogurt"
• "This is just another tool that Born2cycle can use to argue to try to get his way, ..."

Those references to me in terms of Dicklyon's opinion that what happened at Yogurt was me getting "my way" is WP:BATTLEGROUND language. It certainly does not reflect how I view these situations. That Dicklyon sees it that way (and not just with me) is a problem, and explains why he makes the inappropriately personalized comments on article/WP talk pages that he does. That needs to be addressed.

I think the following suggestion from Quest is going too far, though it would be appropriate if the problematic behavior continues after the warning: " A short break (perhaps a month) might also be helpful."

I strongly oppose any BOOMERANG result to the petitioner of this request, as the underlying complaint has reasonable basis, and BOOMERANGing would discourage others from reporting inappropriately personalized commentary on article/WP talk pages, and this would effectively sanction (in the approve sense) such behavior, not only from Dicklyon, but from others as well. --B2C 16:00, 1 May 2013 (UTC) series of edits to this statement done. --B2C 16:23, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Reply to Dicklyon

Dicklyon asks above: "am I not allowed to comment on that? ". Sure, if you think I or anyone else has been behaving inappropriately, bring it to our attention on our respective user talk pages. Not on article/WP talk pages. On article/WP talk pages, please refer only to substance, including arguments actually made, not what you imagine to be someone's motivations, whether or not you believe your opinion is backed up by what they say on their user page. By the way, if you think anything on my user page suggests anything inappropriate, please bring that up too... on my user talk page. Not anywhere else.

This is the key thing. Don't bring up negative stuff about specific WP users on article/WP talk pages. That's all. It reflects poorly on all of us. --B2C 20:23, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

• Here's a specific suggestion: When commenting on article/WP talk pages, ignore the signature. That is, reply only with comments that would make sense and mean the same thing regardless of who posted the comment to which you are replying. Thus, if they say something helpful, replying with a "thank you" is fine, despite the personal "you" reference. But if you're going to make a comment that only makes sense because of other stuff that person has written elsewhere, it almost certainly is not appropriate to bring that up on that article/WP talk page, especially if the intent is to convey something negative.

  For example, if someone says something which seems to contradict what they said or did elsewhere, question the user about the apparently contradictory behavior on that user's talk page, not on the article/WP talk page. --B2C 20:55, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

• I also oppose Dicklyon's proposal to gag Apteva with respect to advocating against the applicability of MOS on article titles. That's a very controversial issue that has no consensus, and to seek muzzling others about that, especially when he is a proponent of one side and Apteva is a proponent of the other, is just another example of Dicklyon treating WP as a WP:BATTLEGROUND. --B2C 22:04, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

• Dicklyon is at it again, making personalized comments about me on a policy talk page instead of addressing content :
  • "B2C has no problem with ambiguity in titles as long as there are not two articles fighting for the same title; he defines that to be unambiguous."***NOTE: (that's not true but that's beside the point)
  • "He has been very consistent about that, as you can see from the history of the "precision" criterion, in which he has consistently worked to say that precision is bad and that titles should have just enough to distinguish the articles, not to point out their topics."
  • "B2C has not advocated doing away with recognizability, but has several times to rephrase it, like in 2009 when it tried to say what precision was good for: "Good article titles are precise enough to indicate the topic unambiguously, but not more so." he changed it into a more negative and discouraging form "Good article titles are only as precise as necessary to indicate the name of the topic unambiguously."
  • "That was one subtle step, but he keeps after it, like in his proposal at Wikipedia_talk:Article_titles/Archive_36#Proposal: clarifying PRECISION, which seeks to "clarify" by getting rid of any consideration for ambiguity in titles, by changing it to add the bolded part here: "Titles usually use names and terms that are precise (see below), but only as precise as necessary to identify the topic of the article unambiguously with respect to other Misplaced Pages titles." "
  • "Clearly, B2C has no problem with ambiguity, only with article title collisions."
  • "Looking at real cases where B2C pushes a narrow interpretation might; he typically does not have consensus on his side, but always pretends to."

I'm sorry, but what place do any of Dicklyon's opinions about me or anyone else have on any policy talk page? --B2C 04:26, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Omnedon

Having looked at all of the diffs, I see no statements that cross the line of incivility. I've been asked by editors if I had "even bothered to read such-and-such", and things of that nature; and I admit it was annoying to me. And yes, Dicklyon tends to be rather direct when he disagrees, perhaps pushing the envelope a bit. But requesting a block for these diffs seems extreme to say the least. The term "thin-skinned" comes to mind. I've seen far worse wrongly excused and even justified. As a side note, B2C should perhaps not be among those casting stones here, given his own past record here (mentioned above). Omnedon (talk) 00:01, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

I understand that the focus is personalization, but a request for a block simply for talking directly to other editors in a discussion seems even more incredible. I had assumed, incorrectly, there there was a civility component here. Omnedon (talk) 12:10, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

It's interesting that you would direct me to read the talk page guidelines, given the nature of your complaint. And yes, it is a good practice to focus on content and not editors. But it seems to me that Dicklyon was talking to editors in most cases. Omnedon (talk) 12:56, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Tony1

This is a waste of everyone's time. Tony (talk) 03:42, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Statement by ErikHaugen

These diffs don't demonstrate anything that violates the arbcom remedy. Apteva seems to think that using the word "you" is personalizing; consider this diff supplied as evidence, where DL uses the phrase "you" when suggesting to another user that he go ahead with his proposal: "That all sounds good, but since you understand it much better than I do, maybe you should take the next crack at it." If Apteva thinks this is an example of personalizing disputes, or even of problematic behavior, then perhaps Apteva should not be bringing AE requests. I think sanctions for frivolous or vexatious requests might be an overreaction, but I think at least a warning is in order, as this does have the appearance of a vendetta and is at least a waste of everyone's time.

DL gives Apteva several warnings in the other diffs supplied. I don't think this is in itself necessarily a problem either; others have commented that that should only happen on user talk pages or AN or here or whatever, but this isn't personalizing the dispute, so the arbcom remedy isn't relevant.

Apteva: Do you stand by this diff? Do you really think this is evidence of problematic behavior, in any way? ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 16:41, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Dicklyon

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Some of Dicklyon's comments are less than ideal, but I don't think them serious enough to warrant a sanction, IMO they might at most merit a reminder. On the other hand, I can to some extent sympathize with his exasperation, having read some of the discussion at Talk:Suicide of Kelly Yeomans, where Born2cycle's repeated advocacy of a page move request that was rejected by a five to one majority might itself be considered disruptive. As for the proposal to amend Apteva's topic ban, I would have to look at that in more detail before expressing an opinion. Gatoclass (talk) 17:54, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Maurice07

Estlandia

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Estlandia

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Volunteer Marek 19:42, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Estlandia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Eastern Europe

• Estlandia topic banned from all Poland related articles. Estlandia topic banned from all articles related to Nazi Germany and modern far-right politics.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. May 1 2013 Estlandia's edit summary: shut up finally your fucking shouting mouth, crybaby!
2. March 11 A user whom apparently Estlandia emailed in an attempt to get him into conflicts with me and whom Estlandia asked to “look at some subject” does the right thing and posts on Estlandia’s talk, basically turning down his offer/request. This shows Estlandia is engaging in blatant off-wiki canvassing, and is trying to inflame the battleground atmosphere by attempting to recruit (though in this case failing) other users to harass me or get into arguments with me.

Evidence of long term stalking (in addition to the examples above)

3.October 5 2012 Estlandia shows up to an article he has never edited just to engage in "revenge reverts"

4.October 5 2012 Estlandia shows up to an article he has never edited just to engage in "revenge reverts"

5.I brought the issue up on his talk page October 5 2012. Estlandia did not even bother denying that he was stalking my edits just threw some random accusations my way.

6. This one’s not a revert, but it’s another instance where Estlandia shows up to an article he’s never edited just because I am active on it. It shows clearly that he is stalking my edits. I’ve also brought this up on his talk page , and again, he doesn’t even bother denying that he’s stalking my edits just responds with a "I can edit whatever articles I want" (the equivalent of saying "yeah, I’m stalking your edits and you can’t do anything about it")

7. Not a revert but more evidence that Estlandia is following me around (this is an article I had just created)

8. Ditto.

9. – shows up to an article which he’s never edited, a topic which AFAIK he’s never edited, shortly after I made an edit to it

10.Estlandia also followed me to the Persecution by Muslims article (a nice little POV hit piece), now deleted. He had never edited the article before, but when I put it up for AfD he showed up literally within minutes to oppose the deletion .

11.Harassment on my talk page:

12.Shows up to a 3RR report that had nothing to do with him (note – I was not sanctioned here and there was no 3RR violation)

13.Popping in for some axe-grinding into a discussion on my talk which did not concern him

Individually, these aren’t problematic but they do clearly show a pattern – Estlandia is following my edits around, making it clear that he is ‘watching me’ and looking for an excuse to get involved. There's more but that's what I can remember/find off the top of my head.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

See above.

I don't know if Miacek/Estlandia has been officially warned about discretionary sanctions in this topic area before. He was previously topic banned from Eastern European topics (which was later amended ). He's certainly aware of discretionary sanctions in the Eastern European topics as he was involved in several of the cases and has involved himself deeply here, at WP:AE, even in a report right above this one (on Galassi)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Normally I would just ignore this behavior, as annoying and disruptive as it is - which is why I didn't file any reports based on prior incidents like those in 2012 - but the latest outburst clearly crossed the line.

In the past when I've asked Estlandia to stop following me around he has not even bothered denying that he's engaging in such behavior. But he usually throws some unsubstantiated counter accusations my way, for example . For the record, I noticed the Friedrich Meinecke article by looking at another user's edits, not Estlandia's. In regard to the Tuchola article when I noticed it was created, I simply expanded it because I happen to have two books on the subject (I turned it from an unsourced POV stub old version to a viable well sourced article )

@-walkee - I already explained above. I came to that article by checking another user's edits. YOU on the other hand showed up out of the blue, after we had a recent disagreement on another article (hence my comment). It is also a gross mischaracterization to say "A third, neutral editor involves and supports the version by Estlandia without the POV-pushing by Volunteer Marek." What User:Maunus actually said was "It clearly belongs in the article, but perhaps not in the lead" and pointed out that the source was an undergraduate journal (which was a valid point). Feel free to ask Maunus about it if you want to. And then... how did you come to this AE request (never mind your interesting edit history)? Volunteer Marek 21:44, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

@ Miacek - "revenge report"??? After you said shut up finally your fucking shouting mouth, crybaby!? If I was looking for "revenge" I would've filed a report on you long time ago but I haven't until this recent outburst.Volunteer Marek 13:23, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

@ Lothar - sure, the year old stuff is stale and I only brought here for context - it's why I separated that out from the first two diffs which are recent.Volunteer Marek 17:09, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Estlandia

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Estlandia

Statement by Walkee

The claim of Volunteer Marek of being stalked is a harsh misrepresentation. He and Estlandia simply edit in the same topic area and the disputes always involve many related articles. In them, usually Volunteer Marek is the attacker who disparages a subject or tries to insert material, especially to the lead part, that advances his POV while Miacek tries to restore the NPOV.

In summary, Volunteer Marek is making an attempt to dominate the topic area by eliminating an editor of a different POV.

I have witnessed an example myself:

• On 31 March 2013 at 18:49 Estlandia edits the article on Friedrich Meinecke, one of Germany most famous historians.
• Three hours later Volunteer Marek shows up. It is his first time editing the article, so Volunteer Marek would be stalking Miacek. He simply reverts everything that Estlandia had edited and attacks Estlandia in the edit summary personally.
• A third, neutral editor involves and supports the version by Estlandia without the POV-pushing by Volunteer Marek.
• I took a look at the edits and commented on the talk page without ever taking part in the edit war.
• Volunteer Marek attacks me immediately: : "I see that you've very quickly learned this game called "stalking users". Picked it up from Miacek or are you an autodidact?"
  • Final note: The word "stalking" is offensive and has been discouragd since 2008.

• In general, Volunteer Marek uses a highly inflammatory language in almost all his comments, uses edit summaries to spread accusations against editors, attacks everyone personally and brings a huge amount of vicious accusations against those he is arguing against. It seems that he purposefully tries to escalate every dispute, no matter how trivial.

--walkee 20:45, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Conclusion

Dear administrators, this Arbitration Enforcement complaint (that is trying to enforce a sanction the accused is not under) about incivility is absurd. Volunteer Marek is an account that insults others as "shithead" and miraculously is never brought to justice apart from receiving countless warnings in the topic area that fall on deaf ears and are not finally enforced. --walkee 23:17, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Comments by My very best wishes

I am looking at this " very nice" conversation (diff 11 by Volunteer Marek). What had happened?

1. Volunteer Marek received a barnstar from another user (the title is "A barnstar for you!").
2. Estlandia suddenly appears with a strange highly inflammatory message (Russian) about Nazi agents, spies and saboteurs. What it means? What he tells is a famous Soviet slogan (nice picture!). According to a publication, whole text of this slogan reads: "Искореним врагов народа — троцкистско-бухаринских шпионов — террористов и диверсантов — агентов фашизма! Смерть изменникам родины!". Translation: "Let us exterminate the enemies of the people - the Trotsky-Bukharin spies - the terrorists and saboteurs - agents of fascism! Death to the traitors of the motherland!".
3. Estlantia explains the meaning of his message: "And to accuse Marek of being a commie never came to my mind. He's rather on the other end of the spectrum." That means "you, the Nazi" (please compare with wording "Aryanization" used by Galassi above)
4. VM calls Estlandia "a dishonest idiot".

This is an example of harassment by Estlandia. To me, this posting by Estlandia also looks like a personal threat, especially knowing the difficult relations between him and VM.

Let me also tell that using words "wolf pack" about Volunteer Marek (and apparently someone else, "wolf pack") on my talk page today by Estlandia was grossly inappropriate.

Statement by Estlandia (Miacek)

A revenge report by Volunteer Marek. He's involved in a number of disputes with me at the moment and tries to gain the upper hand in the dispute by getting me topic banned. I agree with the analysis by Walkee, see above, I'd just add a few remarks. My edit summary yesterday was offensive, but so are Volunteer Marek's comments I've had to endure: 'Don't be an asshole', 'you're a dishonest idiot'. His accusations that I'm somehow following him are very hypocritical. It is VM, who from time to time appears to topics (like Islam, or German politics) he never edited before, when I'm just having a conflict with someone. Recently he appeared twice to an article he'd never edited before, and during the first case his first edit was to revert me . More to come. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 06:49, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Comment by Lothar von Richthofen

Haven't really looked too far into the particularities of the report, but I can say that I think the proposed tBan from modern far-right politics is unwarranted. I've seen Miacek around a decent bit at Golden Dawn (Greece), and his editing there is quite unproblematic. Also, I'm unsure as to why VM is bringing up stale conversations from almost a year ago. All it really shows is that there's bad blood between the two of them (which should be obvious also from Miacek's Polandball userbox). ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 16:22, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Piotrus

I don't like muzzling people with ibans other than in extreme cases, and I don't think it is needed here. At least, not for the entirety of EE. All I see is some uncivility and following a user around, neither of which are nice, but neither of which suggest content disruption. Perhaps some sort of an interaction ban would be of more use. Even so, I am not sure what's the problem with . If an editor I often disagrees with come to my new article and fixes grammar, I'd rather like to think of it as a good faith gesture. Some other diffs like are more worrying, but... enough for an interaction ban? I'd have doubts. Something is needed to deradicalize the atmosphere here, something that won't prevent anyone from doing good content work. A civility warning, perhaps, backed with a reminder about ye'old Misplaced Pages:DIGWUREN#Standard_discretionary_sanctions? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:18, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Estlandia

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Akuri

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Akuri

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Mathsci (talk) 08:25, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Akuri (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBPIA

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 3 May 2013 Editing logged out, Akuri writes, It is well known that "Palestinians" are illegal settlers from Arabia on Talk:Palestinians.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

Has previously been warned by arbitrators, checkusers and other adminstrators about editing logged out, which gives the appearance of evading scrutiny.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Akuri has a long record of editing logged out from webhost ranges and open proxies. Those IPs and proxies, almost all of which have been blocked, are listed here. Akuri has given no reasonable excuse for editing logged out and has been evasive with checkusers (Timotheus Canens, Deskana). He has not given the appearance of being willing to abide by wikipedia editing rules. In particular here he posted inflammatory comments while logged out on a talk page that clearly falls within arbitration restrictions. Note that, apart from Fatimid art, I have never edited any content remotely connected with the Middle East. I am not sure what sanctions are appropriate, but too many problems are created by logged out edits like this. Mathsci (talk) 08:25, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

A checkuser and former arbitrator, Deskana, has already explained policy on sockpuppet categories to Akuri. It is probably the only way to keep track of prolific IP/open proxy hopping. Mathsci (talk) 10:47, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

• Only three edits have ever been made by this particular open proxy to wikipedia. The first edit here, removing a sockpuppet tag, was Akuri. The second edit was 18 minutes later to Talk:Palestinians (as above). There was a third edit, self-identifying as Akuri, 8 hours later. Akuri's claim that the second edit wasn't by him is not believable. His stories about why he uses open proxies are equally unconvincing. Every time he has used an open proxy, he has been the only user to have done so on wikipedia (within that time span). That can be checked on all the IPs in the suspected sockpuppet category which do not start with 101 or 110. Akuri's "story" does not ring true. A checkuser might possibly be able to confirm that the three edits were made by the same user. (A somewhat grey area.) I have dropped a note to a checkuser. Mathsci (talk) 11:25, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

So far Akuri has not explained how he can "edit from home" without having some kind of internet service provider there. Mathsci (talk) 22:48, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Akuri

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Akuri

This comment was not posted by me. The IP address is an open proxy, and someone else evidently was using it.

Regarding the rest of Mathsci's complaint, I would not be using open proxies if I could edit any other way. My default IP range is caught in a huge rangeblock of several thousand IPs, and I don't qualify for IP block exemption. I've asked one admin, King of Hearts, if he could think of any other way for me to edit, but he couldn't. I also explained here why I often have to edit while logged out for account security reasons.

I've been reluctant to bring up Mathsci's actions towards me at a noticeboard because I didn't want to create drama, but now that he has raised the issue here I would like it to be dealt with. This page is a sockpuppet category that Mathsci created about me, where he tagged 57 IP addresses as my sockpuppets. Some of these IPs are IPs that I edited from while logged out, and the rest are IPs that I edited from before I had an account. My account has never been blocked, and when posting logged out I never tried to make it a secret who I was, so I don't believe my editing while logged out constitutes socking. It also was not socking for me to post as an IP address before I had an account. I never have been reported at SPI, and Mathsci does not seem to have consulted any admin before creating this category.

I also want to note that the diff Mathsci provided of me having allegedly been warned about ARBPIA previously is, in fact, a comment that Mathsci posted in my user talk at the same time that he made this report. Akuri (talk) 09:32, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I want to point out that Mathsci's statement "Every time he has used an open proxy, he has been the only user to have done so on wikipedia" is false. One example, and this is not the only example, is this IP. The edits on April 19th to 27th were made by me, but the edits on April 11th and 12th were by someone else.

In response to Sandstein, I think that Mathsci's conduct towards me should be actionable because it is similar to the battleground conduct he was admonished for a year ago. Although it's now spread into other areas, Mathsci's animosity towards me was originally because of my edits in the race and intelligence topic area (see his comments about me in this AE report), which is the topic area where he was admonished for his conduct. He also is currently under a sanction for making frivolous AE reports. Akuri (talk) 11:24, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Sandstein, if you prohibit me from editing logged out anymore, what do you expect me to do when editing from a computer where there is a risk of my password being stolen if I log in? Akuri (talk) 16:54, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

By creating a declared alternate account called "Akuri public". A solution practiced by arbs and admins in the past for just such an occasion. 204.101.237.139 (talk) 18:20, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I'd likely have to use that account almost 100% of the time. Even when I edit from home, I'm connecting via a semi-public network belonging to my employer whose configuration I'm not in control of. I don't trust the network admins there to keep the network free of spyware, and I also know that if they were monitoring my connection as I logged in and wanted my password, they would be able to get it. When I could edit from my default IP range I could mitigate that risk by using HTTPS (at least when editing from home), but HTTPS almost never is possible when I have to use proxies. Akuri (talk) 18:44, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Statement by Deskana

I can confirm that, as of the time I wrote this message, 186.227.61.51 is an open anonymous proxy on port 8080. As a checkuser, I can confirm that the only edits that have been made from this IP are the three that are shown in Special:Contributions/186.227.61.51. No edits have been made from this IP address by registered accounts. That is the only information that is available. --(ʞɿɐʇ) ɐuɐʞsǝp 13:49, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Statement by ChequeredShirt

This appears to be an attempt to frame Akuri using an open proxy. ChequeredShirt (talk) 01:26, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

00:28 Mathsci adds sock tags to IP.

00:34 Mathsci requests open proxy check on IP.

00:45 Akuri removes sock tag with second IP and requests "stop doing this".

01:03 Second IP makes highly uncharacteristic edit.

ChequeredShirt (talk) 02:27, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Result concerning Akuri

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

The complainant's contention that Akuri made the edit at issue remains unproven, because Akuri contests this and there is no readily apparent circumstantial evidence to suggest that Akuri made this edit: Their contribution history appears to contain no other contributions related to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I therefore suggest closing this request as not actionable. The broader issue of IP or proxy use by Akuri, as well as the issue of Mathsci's creation of Category:Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Akuri, as raised by Akuri in their response, does not appear to relate to an arbitration case and is therefore outside the scope of this noticeboard.  Sandstein  10:54, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Mathsci's supplemental evidence does make it appear rather likely that the edit at issue was in fact made by Akuri. While I understand that it is possible that the edit was indeed made by a third party who just happened to use the open proxy at the same time as Akuri, this strikes me as considerably less likely in view of the circumstances. In addition, people who knowingly use open proxies or shared IPs anonymously must assume the risk of their contributions being (mis-)associated with those of others - if they want to avoid this, they must log into their user account. The edit, as such, is problematic because it violates WP:NOTFORUM: Misplaced Pages talk pages are not fora for making inflammatory statements about article topics. In view of this, I intend to issue a discretionary warning sanctions to Akuri. While Akuri is correct that the use of open proxies is not prohibited, the use of IPs to avoid scrutiny is. I don't see why Akuri can't use open proxies while logged in. The explanation here is not convincing. Consequently, in the event of continued problematic IP editing by (or likely by) Akuri, I intend to impose a sanction prohibiting Akuri from logged-out editing within the scope of topics covered by discretionary sanctions.  Sandstein  15:34, 3 May 2013 (UTC)