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Revision as of 15:37, 21 May 2013 editMr. Stradivarius (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators59,191 edits add draft discussion sections - I've reordered the drafts using random.org← Previous edit Revision as of 15:41, 21 May 2013 edit undoMr. Stradivarius (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators59,191 edits bold the notice at the top - all those discussion sections might look temptingNext edit →
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{{notice|This is a draft version of the upcoming RfC about the lead of the ] article. It isn't ready for people to comment on directly yet, and any comments made will be removed. Its content is subject to change without warning as improvements are made to it. If you have any comments ''about'' the draft, please make them at ]. Thank you. — ''''']''''' <sup>]</sup> 14:26, 30 April 2013 (UTC)}} {{notice|This is a draft version of the upcoming RfC about the lead of the ] article. It '''isn't ready for people to comment on''' yet, and any comments made '''will be removed'''. Its content is subject to change without warning as improvements are made to it. If you have any comments ''about'' the draft, please make them at ]. Thank you. — ''''']''''' <sup>]</sup> 14:26, 30 April 2013 (UTC)}}
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Revision as of 15:41, 21 May 2013

This is a draft version of the upcoming RfC about the lead of the Jerusalem article. It isn't ready for people to comment on yet, and any comments made will be removed. Its content is subject to change without warning as improvements are made to it. If you have any comments about the draft, please make them at Talk:Jerusalem/2013 RfC discussion#General discussion. Thank you. — Mr. Stradivarius 14:26, 30 April 2013 (UTC)
Not a voteIf you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Misplaced Pages contributors. Misplaced Pages has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes.

However, you are invited to participate and your opinion is welcome. Remember to assume good faith on the part of others and to sign your posts on this page by adding ~~~~ at the end.

Note: Comments may be tagged as follows: suspected single-purpose accounts: {{subst:spa|username}}; suspected canvassed users: {{subst:canvassed|username}}; accounts blocked for sockpuppetry: {{subst:csm|username}} or {{subst:csp|username}}.

This is a discussion to decide the content of the lead section of the Jerusalem article. It was mandated by the Arbitration Committee by motion in January 2013, and its result will be binding for three years. The structure of this page was arrived at through a moderated discussion conducted by Mr. Stradivarius.

The dispute over the lead of the Jerusalem article is one of the oldest on Misplaced Pages, having first been debated in 2003. Since then it has generated more than 1675KiB of wikitext in 90 discussion threads, including at least three previous RfCs. The dispute focuses on whether or not it is neutral to say that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. — Mr. Stradivarius 09:00, 23 May 2013

Discussion structure

We have included two general discussion questions for you to answer, and seven drafts for you to comment on. In order to keep the general discussion questions on topic, we ask you to please refrain from asking new numbered questions after the ones we have worked out in the moderated discussion. However, you are of course welcome to ask new questions on the talk page.

As for the drafts, we agreed in the moderated discussion that we would like editors to bring in fresh opinions. So you may add new drafts using the format provided below. However, to keep us from having many similar drafts, we ask that you add a comment in the "support with revisions" section if you are only suggesting a minor improvement of an existing draft. New drafts should be reserved for major changes from existing drafts.

Also, rather than include a detailed breakdown of all the talk page arguments made over the years, we have opted to include a summary of what reliable sources say about the subject of the dispute. We hope you will consider the positions of the sources carefully, and make informed comments based on both the sources and on Misplaced Pages policy. — Mr. Stradivarius 15:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Source summary

The capital status of Jerusalem is complex, and there have been many different views expressed on it in reliable sources. The participants of the moderated discussion have collaboratively created a summary of these views:

  • Jerusalem is the capital of Israel under Israeli law.
  • Few or no countries recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
  • The capital status of Jerusalem is controversial. It is controversial to refer to Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, and it is also controversial not to refer to it as the capital of Israel. It is also controversial to refer to Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine.
  • Some reputable sources use "Tel Aviv" as a metonym, as shorthand for 'Israel', and some reputable sources refer to Tel Aviv as the capital of Israel.
  • East Jerusalem, which our article treats as part of Jerusalem, is in the Palestinian territories and is occupied by Israel.
  • Many sources consider it correct to list Jerusalem as the capital of Israel when there is little room for nuance, but in prose, objective sources often use qualifiers which show that the status as capital was achieved unilaterally.
  • Palestine aspires to make Jerusalem its capital.
  • The Israeli government made Jerusalem its seat of government and declared it its capital.
  • There is very little support for the Israeli view regarding the Sovereignty and capital status of Jerusalem (especially East Jerusalem).
References
  1. ^ "Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel". The State of Israel. Jerusalem, complete and united, is the capital of Israel.
  2. James Vicini (2 May 2011). "Supreme Court to consider Jerusalem passport case". Reuters. While Israel calls Jerusalem its "eternal and indivisible" capital, few other states accept that status
  3. Richard Boudreaux (18 November 2009). "U.S. criticizes Jerusalem plan for new housing". Los Angeles Times. "Jerusalem is Israel's capital and will remain as such." That position is universally rejected by other countries
  4. "Romney: US has moral duty to block Iran nuclear plans". BBC. 29 July 2012. Mr Romney referred to Jerusalem as Israel's capital, something the current US administration and most of the international community do not do.
  5. Serge Schmemann (2 March 1997). "A New Struggle For Jerusalem". The New York Times. even the United States has not recognized the city as Israel's capital
  6. William R. Slomanson (2010). Fundamental Perspectives on International Law (6th ed.). Wadsworth. p. 87. ISBN 9780495797197. In Israel, most states (...) do not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, as claimed by Israel since 1950.
  7. Victor Kattan (2012). "Competing Claims, Contested City: The Sovereignty of Jerusalem under International Law" (PDF). International Conference on Jerusalem. pp. 2, 17. no state recognizes Israel's sovereignty over Jerusalem in neither its eastern nor western half
  8. "Palestinians attack Mitt Romney for 'racist' comments". BBC. 30 July 2012. Mr Romney caused controversy when he described Jerusalem as the country's capital
  9. Rana Muhammad Taha (1 August 2012). "Romney's statements during Israel visit cause controversy". Daily News Egypt. Statements made by (...) Mitt Romney (...) have caused controversy worldwide (...) In a speech on Sunday Romney referred to Jerusalem as the capital of Israel
  10. John Battersby (1 September 1995). "Israel's Celebration of Jerusalem Raises Eyebrows". The Christian Science Monitor. the ancient holy city is again embroiled in a controversy over Israeli and Palestinian claims to have Jerusalem as their capital
  11. Raphael Ahren (29 March 2012). "Israel unfazed by Obama administration's refusal to say Jerusalem is the capital". The Times of Israel. In 2008, Obama (...) saying that "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided." Controversy ensued
  12. "BBC criticised after failing to identify capital on Olympic page". The Telegraph. 19 July 2012.
  13. Raphael Ahren (8 August 2012). "Guardian: We were wrong to call Tel Aviv Israel's capital". The Times of Israel. The British Guardian newspaper on Wednesday acknowledged it was wrong to call Tel Aviv Israel's capital
  14. "Democrats' headache over Jerusalem status". BBC. 6 September 2012. How to describe the city of Jerusalem has caused controversy
  15. Christa Case Bryant (5 September 2012). "Jerusalem: Why Israelis and Palestinians, Democrats and Republicans fight over it". The Christian Science Monitor. By leaving support for Jerusalem as Israel's capital off its platform, the Democratic party sparked the latest fierce debate on the much-disputed city.
  16. Barak Ravid (19 July 2012). "On BBC's Olympics website, Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine". Haaretz.
  17. "U.S., Israel spar in public, but defense ties are strong". The Wall Street Journal. 4 May 2010. None of this means there aren't real strains between Washington and Tel Aviv
  18. Isabelle Lasserre (19 January 2012). "Israël et les Etats-Unis divisés par la bombe nucléaire iranienne" (in French). Le Figaro. La bombe iranienne enfonce un coin dans les relations entre Washington et Tel Aviv. (The Iranian bomb has caused a split between Washington and Tel Aviv)
  19. Tobias Buck (3 November 2010). "Spat mars Hague's Israel visit". The Financial Times. Tel Aviv continues to press Britain for reform of its laws on "universal jurisdiction" {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
  20. John Pilger (22 March 2004). "John Pilger on terror in Palestine". New Statesman. ...the law passed by Congress that imposes sanctions on Syria and in effect threatens it with the same fate as Iraq unless it agrees to the demands of Tel Aviv
  21. "Suspected Israeli spies detained". The Sydney Morning Herald. 18 April 2004. She said the matter had been raised directly with the Tel Aviv government
  22. Kevin Flower (23 September 2011). "Palestinians, Israelis talk Palestinian statehood bid". CNN. His opinion is echoed on the streets of Tel Aviv, Israel's capital city.
  23. "Israel beach body is missing Briton". London Evening Standard. 19 May 2003. The body of Omar Sharif was found in the capital Tel Aviv...
  24. "Clinton joins Peres for birthday bash". Irish Independent. 22 September 2003. A parade of global figures...arrived in the Israeli capital Tel Aviv last night...
  25. "La explosión de un coche bomba cerca de Tel Aviv, Israel, deja al menos un muerto y varios heridos" (in Spanish). El País. 29 September 2006. Al menos una persona ha muerto y seis han resultado heridas tras la explosión de un coche en una localidad cercana a Tel Aviv, capital de Israel. (At least one person has died and six have been injured after a car exploded in a town close to Tel Aviv, the capital of Israel.)
  26. Martin Fletcher (16 November 2012). "Wake-up call for Israel's city that never sleeps". NBC News. ...air raid sirens sound in the Israeli capital Tel Aviv for the second day...
  27. Malki, Riad, "The Physical Planning of Jerusalem", in Ma'oz, Moshe; Nusseibeh, Sari (eds.), Jerusalem: Points Beyond Friction-And Beyond, Kluwer Law International, p. 27, ISBN 9789041188434, East Jerusalem constitutes only one percent of the total area of the Occupied Territories (OT)—the West Bank and Gaza Strip, including East Jerusalem— ...
  28. Happold, Matther (2001), "The Conference of High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention", Yearbook of International Humanitarian Law, vol. 4, Cambridge University Press, ISBN 978-9067041690, On 5 December 2001, a conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention concerning the application of international humanitarian law in the occupied Palestinian territories, including East Jerusalem, took place in Geneva.

    The meeting of the Conference was the culmination of a long political process. Since the 1967 Six Day War, Israel has been in occupation of the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip.

  29. Roberts, Adam. "Prolonged Military Occupation: The Israeli-Occupied Territories Since 1967". The American Journal of International Law. 84 (1). American Society of International Law: 60. Although East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights have been brought directly under Israeli law, by acts that amount to annexation, both of these areas continue to be viewed by the international community as occupied, and their status as regards the applicability of international rules is in most respects identical to that of the West Bank and Gaza.
  30. "CIA - The World Factbook - Israel". CIA. 29 April 2013. Israel proclaimed Jerusalem as its capital in 1950, but the US, like all other countries, maintains its Embassy in Tel Aviv
  31. John Quigley (2005). The Case For Palestine: An International Law Perspective. Duke University Press. p. 225. ISBN 9780822335399. (...) no single territorial sector is more contested than Jerusalem, which both sides claim as their capital. (...) When the Palestine National Council issued its call for independence in 1988, it declared "the establishment of the State of Palestine in the land of Palestine with its capital in Jerusalem.
  32. "CIA - The World Factbook - Israel". CIA. 29 April 2013. Capital - name: Jerusalem (Note underneath - Israel proclaimed Jerusalem as its capital in 1950, but the US, like all other countries, maintains its Embassy in Tel Aviv)
  33. Lapidoth, Ruth. "Jerusalem – Some Legal Issues". The Jerusalem Institute for Israel Studies. pp. 21–26. Retrieved 07/04/2013Reprinted from: Rüdiger Wolfrum (Ed.), The Max Planck Encyclopedia of Public International Law (Oxford University Press, online 2008-, print 2011)
  34. John Quigley (2005). The Case For Palestine: An International Law Perspective. Duke University Press. p. 93. ISBN 9780822335399.
  35. Mosheh Amirav (2009). Jerusalem Syndrome: The Palestinian-Israeli Battle for the Holy City. Sussex Academic Press. pp. 26–27. ISBN 9781845193485.
  36. Henry Cattan. "The Status of Jerusalem under International Law and United Nations Resolutions". Journal of Palestine Studies. 10 (3 (Spring 1981)). University of California Press. doi:10.2307/2536456.
  37. UN Resolution 478.
  38. "Basic Law: Jerusalem, Capital of Israel". The State of Israel.
  39. Raphael Ahren (8 August 2012). "Guardian: We were wrong to call Tel Aviv Israel's capital". The Times of Israel. The British Guardian newspaper on Wednesday acknowledged it was wrong to call Tel Aviv Israel's capital, but reiterated its stance that Jerusalem is not the capital either, since it is not recognized as such by the international community." This retraction was the result of a ruling by the Press Complaints Commission.
  40. Fania Domb (2007). "19. The Separation Fence in the International Court of Justice and the High Court of Justice: Commonalities, Differences and Specifics". In Michael Schmitt, Jelena Pejic (ed.). International Law and Armed Conflict, Exploring the Fault Line: Essays in Honour of Yoram Dinstein. Brill. p. 512. ISBN 9789004154285.

Question one

Is it compliant with WP:NPOV to state 'Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.'?

Please answer either "yes", "no", or "other" in the relevant section below, giving a detailed rationale for your choice.

Question one: Yes

Question one: No

Question one: Other

Question one threaded discussion

Question two

Is it compliant with WP:NPOV to state 'Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, though not internationally recognized as such.'?

Please answer either "yes", "no", or "other" in the relevant section below, giving a detailed rationale for your choice.

Question two: Yes

Question two: No

Question two: Other

Question two threaded discussion

Drafts at a glance

We have created seven drafts for you to comment on. Please note that not all of these drafts are intended to be the first sentence of the lead. Some are intended to come later on in the lead, so please bear this in mind when you comment. Also, you may support as many drafts as you like. If you think a draft has merit, then please support it regardless of whether you have also supported other drafts. This will help us to judge what features of what drafts have the widest support, so that we can create new composite drafts if desired. And finally, please give detailed rationales for your choice of draft, based on Misplaced Pages policy. Some applicable policies and guidelines include:

Below is a list of all the drafts constructed for easy comparison. To comment on a draft, please use the discussion sections further down the page. — Mr. Stradivarius 15:37, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

  1. Jerusalem is a city in Israel and the Palestinian territories. Since the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel has occupied East Jerusalem and has included it within its capital city. Palestine has designated Jerusalem its capital, though neither the Israeli or Palestinian claims have gained international recognition.
  2. Jerusalem is the seat of the Israeli government, but its status as the capital of Israel has been unrecognized abroad. Instead, the international community considers the status of Jerusalem a matter to be resolved with Palestinians, who also see the city as the capital of a future independent state of their own.
  3. Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, though not internationally recognized as such.
  4. Both Israel and Palestine claim Jerusalem as their respective capital, but the city isn't recognized internationally as a capital.
  5. Jerusalem is the proclaimed capital and seat of the Israeli government and the proclaimed capital of Palestine, though the international community does not recognize either proclamation or ownership of the city.
  6. Jerusalem has long been a point of contention in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, with both Israelis and Palestinians seeing it as capital of their respective states. Although the Israeli government operates out of the city and has called the city its capital for decades, most nations do not recognize this status.
  7. Jerusalem is one of the oldest cities in the world, considered holy to the three major Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity and Islam Israelis and Palestinians both claim Jerusalem as their capital, as Israel maintains its primary governmental institutions there and the State of Palestine ultimately foresees it as its seat of power; however, neither claim is widely recognized internationally.

Draft one

Jerusalem is a city in Israel and the Palestinian territories. Since the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel has occupied East Jerusalem and has included it within its capital city. Palestine has designated Jerusalem its capital, though neither the Israeli or Palestinian claims have gained international recognition.

Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.

Support draft one

Support draft one with revisions

Oppose draft one

Draft one threaded discussion

Draft two

Jerusalem is the seat of the Israeli government, but its status as the capital of Israel has been unrecognized abroad. Instead, the international community considers the status of Jerusalem a matter to be resolved with Palestinians, who also see the city as the capital of a future independent state of their own.

Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.

Support draft two

Support draft two with revisions

Oppose draft two

Draft two threaded discussion

Draft three

Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, though not internationally recognized as such.

Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.

Support draft three

Support draft three with revisions

Oppose draft three

Draft three threaded discussion

Draft four

Both Israel and Palestine claim Jerusalem as their respective capital, but the city isn't recognized internationally as a capital.

Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.

Support draft four

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Draft four threaded discussion

Draft five

Jerusalem is the proclaimed capital and seat of the Israeli government and the proclaimed capital of Palestine, though the international community does not recognize either proclamation or ownership of the city.

Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.

Support draft five

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Draft five threaded discussion

Draft six

Jerusalem has long been a point of contention in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, with both Israelis and Palestinians seeing it as capital of their respective states. Although the Israeli government operates out of the city and has called the city its capital for decades, most nations do not recognize this status.

Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.

Support draft six

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Draft six threaded discussion

Draft seven

Jerusalem is one of the oldest cities in the world, considered holy to the three major Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity and Islam Israelis and Palestinians both claim Jerusalem as their capital, as Israel maintains its primary governmental institutions there and the State of Palestine ultimately foresees it as its seat of power; however, neither claim is widely recognized internationally.

Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.

Support draft seven

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Draft seven threaded discussion

Draft eight by InsertUsernameHere

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Please comment in the "support", "support with revisions", or "oppose" section below, giving a detailed rationale.

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