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Talkback message from Tito Dutta

Tito Dutta (contact) 21:26, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Keep an eye

Keep a close eye on the article about Godhra Train Massacre and esp. User Soham321; he is on a deleting spree. You're better suited to handle inexperienced, seemingly disruptive editors who don't like listening to others. I am banking on you. Thank you. Mr T 07:20, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Women in Sierra Leone

On 22 May 2013, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Women in Sierra Leone, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that women in Sierra Leone got the right to vote in 1930? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Women in Sierra Leone. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:12, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Global Vision Publishing

Hi, Darkness Shines. I came to this a little late, but you might like to know I've added a comment at Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Global Vision Publishing. I think your question was a good one. Andrew Dalby 12:03, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to you let you know of a discussion at the Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You do not need to participate; however, you are invited to help find a resolution. The thread is "Talk:Digvijaya Singh_(politician)". Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! EarwigBot  04:29, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

2002 Gujarat violence

Articles by Christopher Jaffrelot describe the riots and the violence. So does Edward Luce's 2010 book "In spite of The Gods", from which i will give you some tidbits about the violence and Modis alleged role. Hundreds of eye witness account describe police complicity in the violence. During the riots for example Modi came on television to say about the Godhra massacre that "every action has an equal and opposite reaction" - which many commentators including Luce sees as giving the green light to the subsequent violence against Muslims. Hundreds of people including many women and children were dowsed in kerosene and burned by the mobs, women first raped. Perhaps a reason that the police have not taken testimonies from any of those witnesses and that the testimonies against Modi and many others have not been accepted in court. The rioters seemed to have access to electoral registers that register religion of individuals, since they singled out Muslim homes with extreme precision. They were even able to pinpoint Muslim owned strores that had used a Hindu businesspartner and Hindu storefront to avoid discrimination.(Luce 2010:159). IN the 2002 elections according to Luce (2010:172) "open hatred ahgainst muslims was the sole theme". 200 Muslims are detained under the terror laws for participating in the Godhra train burning. Not a single Hindu has been arrested under those laws for the Gujarat riots. 200,000 Muslims were made homeless by the riots, and went on to live in refugee camps - Modi called those camps "child manufactoring factories", playing on the streotype of Muslims having large familys (Luce 2010 246). The Supreme Court Investigative Team has been strongly criticized by academics like Jaffrelot for rejecting testimony of Muslims. In 2007 an investigative journalists published recordings of Hindu activists boasting of their own acts during the riots, and praising Modi for helping them and even for personally hiding some of them when they were sought by the police. The tapes have not been admitted as evidence by the SIT Investigation. The same individuals have even repeated the claims on record, but have not been accepted as evidence. During the violence the leader of the RSS Modis organization stated that "Let the Muslims understand that their safety lies with the goodwill of the majority". (Luce 2010:160-1). As for the tense relation between Sonia Gandhi of the Congress Party and Modi (who have called eachother "merchant of death" and "halfbred jersey cow" and "Italian bitch" respectively) is also interesting. After the violence Gandhi gave what is considered by many her best speech, in which she accused bthe BJP ministers of turning Gujarat into the land of Godse not of Gandhi. Nathuram Godse was a member of the RSS (Modi's hindu nationalist organization) who killed Mahatma Gandhi. This is just one book about the topic of communalist violence in Gujarat which I happen to have on my shelf. There are many others, and they tell very similar stories. The stories you will hear from most of the editors on the talk page is from blogs, opinion pieces in Indian news sources (which are apparently considered reliable for positive information but not negative in a crude misinterpretation of BLP policy (this article for example is by the BJP minister and lawyer who defended the assassins of both Indira and Rajiv Gandhi, hardly an unbiased observer)) and from BJP/RSS websites like this, you will not find it in peer-reviewed journals published outside of India, and you will not find it in respectable news sources. A month ago I also hadnt heard of Modi, but once I started reading the sources and found out that basically the pages on Indian politics are run by the Indian equivalent of holocaust deniers I could not let the article alone anymore.68.9.182.96 (talk) 21:45, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Here are some links to more sources. This source describes Modis television appearances during the riots, arguing that they were used byt the BJP for political purposes rather than for pacifying the rioters (This article makes a similar point ). This article argues that Modi's goverment of Gujarat is autocratic and curbs free speech of academics. This article analyses the 2007 BJP victory in Gujarat and the "moditva" phenomenon (an populist form of Hindu Nationalism centered around Modi and anti-Muslim sentiment combined with liberal economic policies) also mentioned in several other sources. This peer reviewed chapter in this book states outright that "The controversy around Modi arises from his personal and administrative support for the systematic killing of well over 2000 Muslims between March and May 2002, the investigation of which has been largely thwarted but which is basically beyond doubt." This article calls the violence a pogrom (as do several of the other sources I have presented) and analyses how it was rationalised and motivated by the Hindutva ideology that sees Hindus as selfsacrificing victims. There are soooo many academic sources that treat this topic and Modi, yet the article relies on news paper pieces and cherry picks only irrelevant details about Modi and leaves out all of the stuff that actually makes him a signigicant character in India and beyond.68.9.182.96 (talk) 22:05, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

I do not want to get involved in this discussion but Maunus let me tell you something more, it would be great if you do some more research, it was wrongly reported in the media that Modi quoted newton's third law of motion, I think it was reported in Times of India that modi quoted those words in an interview on Zee News, when SIT asked Zee News to give that video they were unable to provide one, later on it was found that Modi said that "There is some action taking place, let us not show some reaction. We neither want action nor reaction". A lot many Hindus were taken into preventive custody during the riots,many more killed in police firing. Show me one reference where Modi called Sonia an italian bitch apart from Luce's book as it is very apparent that it is filled with inaccuracies, there were many inquiries regarding the role of RSS in Gandhi's murder and none of them found any involvement of RSS. Lastly Gujarat has been home to many communal violence in past and if you look at any other violence in whole of India the conviction rate in 2002 cases is much higher. I am not providing you with any sources here as I have no intreset in having any kind of discussion which will not be helpful in developing our articles. Thanks -sarvajna (talk) 07:50, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Luce interviewed Modi and Gandhi several times, he is one of the worlds most respected journalists specializing in India, the book is published on a respected press. Maybe you should produce some sources that those statements are inaccurate instead of just claiming it like Yogesh always does when a source says something he doesnøt like. Then he usually finds some RSS/BJP blog or opinion column that supports his view and tries to make it seem as if he has actually supported his claim. If you dont wish to get involved in a discussion you should stay the fuck out of it, and otherwise you should bring some sources. It is complete disrespect for Misplaced Pages and for your fellow editors to respond to an array of more than ten sources with a flat contradiction. You should be blocked for your disruptive pov pushing, if wikipedia had any sense. But apparently it doesnt anymore.68.9.182.96 (talk) 12:23, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

• Here is an array of recent peerreviewed sources all of which report Modis quotation of Newton. Here are some non-peerreviewed ones . Here is the site where i believe Ratnakar gets his "information" - a radical Hindu nationalist advocacy website.68.9.182.96 (talk) 14:34, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I have been reading up on him, obvious he is a nationalist, or pretends to be at any rate, definitely not a nice guy. And the article most certainly needs to reflect his complicity in the Gujarat pogram. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:45, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

IP, instead of blustering, and wasting other people's time with claims which have been proven to be false, it may be better if you could get off your high horse and read the latest sources. The second instance of The Times of India quoting him on Newton's theory of action and reaction to justify the riots as a reaction to the Godhra train carnage was also found baseless. The State Information Department promptly issued a denial that Mr. Modi did not speak to The Times of India at all and the newspaper was forced to carry the denial, though deliberately in an obscure corner, the SIT said. Most of your problems seem to be because you seem to be unable to reconcile yourself with the latest developments and want to continue to live in the past, which was more to your liking.OrangesRyellow (talk) 04:51, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

I am sure "The Hindu" is a much more neutral and objective source regarding this topic than peer reviewed academic journals.68.9.182.96 (talk) 16:58, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Erm, if I am such a wanker and need to stay off your talk page what makes you think it is OK for you to comment over here? Darkness Shines (talk) 17:23, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Err, sorry Darkness, I guess I also forgot to exempt you from that message. 68.9.182.96 (talk) 17:29, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Dude, you didnt participate in that thread/pissing contest on my talkpage at all, why would you think that you were included in the message?68.9.182.96 (talk) 17:30, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

I started the thread? Not that I am worried about being called a wanker, I get called far worse all the time, hell at times I am a total wanker Darkness Shines (talk) 17:33, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I see. The very first (unsigned) post was yours, and we were having a conversation until certain problematic elements appeared to throw around some nonsense. You are welcome to post relevant posts to my talkpage anytime, and whether or not you are in fact a wanker I am happy to leave to your own conscience. ;)68.9.182.96 (talk) 17:35, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

@ IP. If you think the name "The Hindu" implies that the paper has any RSS or BJP or Hindu leanings, you are only showing your ignorance. It is a well respected and neutral source. And is certainly better than your obsolete sources which are making false, baseless claims. I think I must excuse myself from any further participation here, I do not want to abuse DarknessShines' hospitality and patience. IP, if you want to continue this conversation, you are welcome to do so on my talk page, even when I am a "wanker" for you.OrangesRyellow (talk) 18:03, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Could you show me the policy that says that news articles are more reliable than peer reviewed articles in academic journals? Or that academic articles from 2012 are suddenly obsolete because of the publication of an Indian Court report contradicts some of their claims?68.9.182.96 (talk) 18:21, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Source controversy

Dear Darknesshines I have a question about this source would this be enough for inclusion on the article? (check my edit on the train burning article) there seems to be a hell of allot of controversy of what really happened I think the other side of the story needs to be told to balance things out. Trikebarns (talk) 11:31, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Nang, how about you take the standered offer? Darkness Shines (talk) 16:40, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated

Hi, I'm Mrt3366. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, Anti- Muslim pogroms in India, and have un-reviewed it again. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you. Mr T 11:53, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

What a shock, you nationalist prick. You should be ashamed, god bless your next hideous assault on innocents. Darkness Shines (talk) 16:47, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Your contributed article, Anti- Muslim pogroms in India

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 Disagree And contested. Faizan 12:15, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of War Against Rape

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