Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 21:59, 9 June 2013

Retired.

That's disappointing

That's disappointing. I was hoping to talk over with you an idea or two I have for reforming the ethos here. Well, I hope you reconsider. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 09:46, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

What Anthonyhcole said. Come back soon, please. Message from this disgustingly saccharine sweet nice guy on Misplaced Pages, Peter aka --Shirt58 (talk) 12:27, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, c'mon back, how else are we going to stem the tide of Bloomex puppets? --CliffC (talk) 00:52, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

I've noticed that Misplaced Pages has fallen into disrepair over the last couple of years, but that doesn't mean that it can't be fixed. All we really need is a better notification system so that users will be notified whenever any of their edits are modified or reverted. Jarble (talk) 17:11, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

How is WP:WATCHLIST not good enough? As for Andy, via email, he knows how I feel about his departure. Flyer22 (talk) 17:51, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Nice to see you back, Andy. Flyer22 (talk) 07:49, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks - but I'm only intending to get involved the Boston bombings article, and maybe other 'breaking news' stories in future, if I get the urge. They need all the help they can get to avoid collapsing in a mire of trivia and moonbattery if they aren't watched, and I can walk away as they settle down, without having to worry about the long-term (where the moonbats will no doubt creep back in, but are of less consequence). Basically, such articles make a mockery of WP:NOTNEWS, and any attempt to edit without falling foul of WP:3RR (amongst other policies) is doomed to failure. The way I see it, they are best edited by people who aren't over-concerned by the day-to-day trivia of Misplaced Pages, and are more concerned about actually presenting decent articles even if it involves breaking a rule or two, and telling the less clued-up 'contributors' to go boil their heads. This will of course put me at risk of getting blocked, but I think the results are worth the risks - and at some point, Misplaced Pages is going to have to acknowledge formally that we can't handle breaking news within existing policy, and either stop creating such articles (fat chance) or find a way to constrain content to something approaching journalism - which will probably involve abandoning the 'anyone can edit' mantra, and accepting that many people shouldn't... AndyTheGrump (talk) 08:11, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Grump, please do come back full time. You and Tarc are my favorite bullshit busters. (And in other news, it appears I've been given the sysop buttons. Shome mishtake, shurely? Ed.)--Shirt58 (talk) 10:39, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Bullshit busters? LOL, that's a great way to put it. You are back for a good cause, Andy, and what you stated about that makes perfect sense. And I'm right there with you on the "many people shouldn't" edit Misplaced Pages aspect, which is something WP:Disruptive editing and WP:COMPETENCE touch on. As we know, even some people who don't fall into those categories have proven detrimental to Misplaced Pages. Flyer22 (talk) 11:24, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

what's the problem exactly?

hi. you reverted a good-faith and valid edit of mine for basically an inaccurate and befuddling reason. You said "there's no such thing as a 'pressure cooker explosive'". Huh? Yes there is, it's a "bomb". It's called "explosive" in the other article... So how can you say that there's "no such thing"? A "bomb" IS an "explosive". What exactly is the problem? I reworded that way, because "pressure cooker bombs" in the very very first sentence just doesn't sound right, right off the bat. But "pressure cooker" should be in the lede right after to simply elaborate it. But the point is it's called an "explosive" in the other article. So your revert was invalid, to be blunt, and the wording is arguably better this way now, in the lede. Regards. Gabby Merger (talk) 07:19, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

No. A Pressure cooker bomb is a bomb made by placing explosives in a pressure cooker. It is the content that explodes, not the container. As for what the other article says, we don't cite ourselves as a source. AndyTheGrump (talk) 07:25, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Welcome back. Collect (talk) 11:31, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

WTF, the same as Collect's having, hope you're still grumpy! CaptainScreebo 23:07, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

IT IS CALLED

-

? AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:14, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism, and maybe finally now semi-protecting the Kermit Gosnell article

Andy,

I know you not, but I agree with at least the first couple of things you posted on the Kermit Gosnell article's "Talk" page; and so I'm now asking you to please go read the two sections I just created on it (items 20 and 21, I believe) and see if you agree; and then to post, accordingly there, in response.

I'm not fan of semi-protecting articles; but this one has gone from such obscurity that some were calling for its deletion to, since FOX called attention to the story, an article that has become sufficiently hot that it's getting too many drive-by vandalisms, in my opinion.

Or am I wrong? I am, seriously, one grump to another, interested in your opinion. Thanks!

Gregg L. DesElms (Username: Deselms) (talk) 21:53, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

If you are referring to this edit , it doesn't actually fall under the Misplaced Pages definition of vandalism, as I see it. It is certainly inappropriate, and has been reverted - though you could have done this yourself. I'm not active much on Misplaced Pages now (see above), and suggest that if you are worried about the article you raise it at WP:BLPN, and ask for a few more eyes on it. I doubt that you'd get far asking for it to be semi-protected though, on the basis of a single edit. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:50, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Dispute resolution

Hi.

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Juggalos_.28gang.29 — Preceding unsigned comment added by AnnerTown (talk • contribs) 09:07, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to you let you know of a discussion at the Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You do not need to participate however, you are invited to help find a resolution. The thread is "Juggalos (gang)". Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! EarwigBot  03:03, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Rick Nicholls

Andy -- I was hoping you could look into the current (as of this post at least) version of the Rick Nicholls article. I stumbled on his page and thought the last contribution is a BLP issue. You have more experience in that area than myself and I would be much more comfortable if you weighed in. Thanks! Lettik (talk) 14:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

New section for misguided attempt at intimidation

Your recent editing history at Psychotronics shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
You have ignored the talk page repeatedly, ignoring the need for consensus and discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Damonthesis (talk • contribs) 21:27, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Nope - it doesn't work like that. When you revert multiple editors, it is you that is edit-warring... AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:33, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

May 2013

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on British Pakistanis. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Stop removing cited text for spurious reasons, it is not difficult to find sources for that content Darkness Shines (talk) 08:25, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Franco Reviglio may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "{}"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 21:04, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry!

Ah sorry abut the comment at ANI that comment wasn't aimed at you. I was referring to the IP's talk page they claim they weren't threatening legal action but proceed to use the words legal action and libel right after that...Cameron11598 (Converse) 20:05, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Susan J. Elliott

By the way, Orange Mike has blocked her IP address for legal threats. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:11, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware of that - and as I've made clear at ANI, I consider it entirely inappropriate that he did, given his involvement. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:14, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

And while I disagree, I respect your reasoning and your desire to respect our processes. No hard feelings at all on my end, Andy. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of 2013 Mother's Day Parade shooting for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 2013 Mother's Day Parade shooting is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/2013 Mother's Day Parade shooting until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Thryduulf (talk) 13:36, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!

That fix on the Mongolian People's Republic article is what I was trying to do. I don't know why it didn't go through the first time... Odin of Trondheim (talk) 19:41, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

No problem. Between us we got it right in the end. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:55, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Ahmadiyya

Hi Andy, I had added a few lines to the Ahmadiyya on Israel. The lines are fully within the Ahmadiyya faith. I am myself an Ahmadi and had done so with a correct intention.. Please read the Ahmadiyya Commentary as cited in the Ref. Thanks. Be well. --ڈاکٹر محمد علی (talk) 19:39, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

The correct place to discuss this is at Talk:Ahmadiyya. Regarding your edits, you will have to find published sources that explicitly state that Ahmadis believe such things. Citing verses from Bible or Quran is entirely beside the point. If you aren't already familiar with it, I suggest you read the Misplaced Pages policy on original research - your own knowledge or opinion regarding the subject matter isn't acceptable as a substitute for verifiable material. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:51, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

OK. Thanks I will. --ڈاکٹر محمد علی (talk) 21:16, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Sergey Brin

at "Sergey Brin" article :

false statement that :" at Moscow State University, Jews were required to take their entrance exams in different rooms than non-Jewish applicants, which were nicknamed "gas chambers", and they were marked on a harsher scale."

So, despite I explained that the following statement is false -" According to Brin, at Moscow State University, Jews were required to take their entrance exams in different rooms than non-Jewish applicants, which were nicknamed "gas chambers", and they were marked on a harsher scale." - it is restored by moderator. Ofcource you may claim that it is opinion of mr. Brin (Seregy's father), but the fact is that facts reported in this quote are not true - Yes, I can understand mr. Brin's (the senior) resentment about some aspects of Soviet past and bitter feelings about Moscow University, but wikipedia is not a novel and to cite here obviously false statements would hardly be right...I am not very good in English language(sorry) and so I am not going to involve myself in discussions, but want to remind you some other articles from this same wikipedia about some Nobel Prize winners of Jewish origin who graduated from Moscow State University - look at this :

"Vitaly Lazarevich Ginzburg, ForMemRS (Russian: Вита́лий Ла́заревич Ги́нзбург; October 4, 1916 – November 8, 2009) was a Soviet theoretical physicist, astrophysicist, Nobel laureate, a member of the Soviet and Russian Academies of Sciences and one of the fathers of Soviet hydrogen bomb. He was the successor to Igor Tamm as head of the Department of Theoretical Physics of the Academy's physics institute (FIAN), and an outspoken atheist.

Biography

He was born to a Jewish family in Moscow in 1916, the son of an engineer Lazar Efimovich Ginzburg and a doctor Augusta Felgenauer, and graduated from the Physics Faculty of Moscow State University in 1938. He defended his candidate's (Ph.D.) dissertation in 1940, and his doctor's dissertation in 1942."

There are numerous other examples of less known professors of Jewish origin in USSR....You may explore it yourself using this wikipedia. It is just to prove you that not only my own expirience contradict to this ridiculous statement that "at Moscow State University, Jews were required to take their entrance exams in different rooms than non-Jewish applicants, which were nicknamed "gas chambers", and they were marked on a harsher scale.", but also information from this same wikipedia also contradict to this statement. I think that it is your responsibility not to misinform readers - I understand that you report opinion of mr.Brin (father of Sergey Brin), but from reading the text a reader can't understand that this opinion may be not exactly true. I still recommend you to deleat this quotation - it is false and not nesessary even if you want to prove that Jews indeed had some difficulties in USSR (other facts pretty much prove that - no need to use false information to prove that) - so why to oppose obvious fact that this quotation is misleading? Please deleat it yourself - it is a matter of truth vs. false, not a matter of my attempt to prove my point no matter what.I'll come back to read your responce, but will not involve myself in further discussions, - I think that I provided enough proves. (or you may leave a quotation but to change the paragraph so that readers understand that there are alternative opinions about words of mr.Brin regarding practicies of Moscow Univeresity in Soviet times regarding Jews) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.252.74.147 (talk) 21:34, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

The correct place to discuss this is at Sergey Brin. I edited the article to make it clear that this was Michael Brin's assertion. The article did not then state that Jews were discriminated against at Moscow State University. It stated that Michael Brin claimed that they were - and we cite a source which verifies that he made the claim. I suggest you familiarise yourself with Misplaced Pages policy regarding what is considered a reliable source for article content, and refrain from editing further - if you continue to do so, you are liable to be blocked for violating our policy on edit warring. If you wish to continue this discussion, please do so on the article talk page. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:04, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Dear friend.I got the following responce from you - "The correct place to discuss this is at Sergey Brin. I edited the article to make it clear that this was Michael Brin's assertion. The article did not then state that Jews were discriminated against at Moscow State University. It stated that Michael Brin claimed that they were - and we cite a source which verifies that he made the claim. I suggest you familiarise yourself with Misplaced Pages policy regarding what is considered a reliable source for article content, and refrain from editing further - if you continue to do so, you are liable to be blocked for violating our policy on edit warring. If you wish to continue this discussion, please do so on the article talk page"

I have explained that despite it is cited as Michael Brin's quote (I see that), but it is actually a quote that may constitute a legal matter as far as defamation of Moscow Univercity is concerned (defamation is the communication of a factual statement that harms the reputation of an individual, business etc.) - so you communicated the factual statement of mr.Brin - I see that - but this statement is false and there are numerous proves for that (including other articles from Misplaced Pages that state that people of Jewish origin were not prohibited to enter faculty of phisics of Moscow University (*I cited for you one of those articles from wiki) as well as those facts about "gas chambers" and separate rooms for Jews in Moscow Univercity are not true - I have explained that my English is not good enough and that explains that I can't maybe express myself in friendly way (that I want to do), but for you English in not foreign language and so I don't understand your cold (to say it mildly) warning not to edit further...I again ask you to kindly reconsider your choice of quotation in the article (I think you can not realise that it is the case of defamation in its pure form)...In case you disagree with my opinion, please, provide me with information where I can file complain because I think that this case is too serious to leave it as it is. I still hope to find understanding with Misplaced Pages (which I respect a lot) - otherwise I'll have to bring this case for Univercity of Moscow to take this kind of things more officially and according to legal practice and international laws178.252.74.147 (talk) 22:42, 16 May 2013 (UTC).

Please read Misplaced Pages:No legal threats. Contributors making such threats are liable to be blocked from editing. If you chose to withdraw the threat (which will be necessary for this discussion to continue), please make any further postings at Talk:Sergey Brin as I have asked. This is not the appropriate place to discuss article content, and I will accordingly not respond to any more postings here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:49, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Ref desk

Regarding this, note that I deleted it as soon as it was asked, and someone put it right back. I then figured someone else might come to their senses and zap it. Thanks for being the one. :) ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 18:03, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks - frankly I'm disappointed that it stayed up as long as it did. Some people have no sense. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:06, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Ironically enough, there's easily one or more ways to ask the question without coming off like a racist rant. For example: "What is the source for some of today's popular African-American given names?" When I was a kid, it seemed like at least half of the black ballplayers were named "Willie". Names like Denzel and Keisha certainly seem like an interesting improvement. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 19:04, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Thegrump

I just received your message regarding citing personal interviews. The policy you cite makes perfect sense. Considering wikipedia's 5th pillar regarding "Misplaced Pages does not have firm rules," and considering that I don't want to teach my young charges to lie, can you help me find a way to bridge the gap between what the students did and what wikipedia allows? Is there some way to cite an oral history? Someway to acknowledge a local expert?

I understand this is not the only thing for you to concern yourself with, I just want to be forthright with the students when I speak to them. I also want to reinforce citing sources. Please, any help would be appreciated.

Mcadorette (talk) 17:41, 19 May 2013 (UTC)mcadorette

About the only way around this I can think of is to get the material published somewhere else first. At a pinch, you might get away with placing the material on your school website (if you have one), and citing that - but this might be seen as questionable per Misplaced Pages:Verifiability policy as a 'self-published' source, and certainly shouldn't be done with anything that looks contentious or overly-promotional. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:56, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for the quick response. I appreciate your candor.

Mcadorette (talk) 18:01, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Pubmed indexed journals in Ayurveda

Dear AndyTheGrump, Good evening! I find it extremely important to bring to attention that PubMed indexed journals are really important for the progress of Ayurved in scientific direction. My motive is to put the names of the journals is to percolate the information. If this information will be put, the reader will get the better idea about the topic of 'Science and Ayurveda'. I really appreciate your concern to remove the material as it may not be suitable at that particular place. But can you suggest me a better place for that information? Maybe an article with title - Pubmed indexed journals in Ayurved? There one can write the history, importance, limitations and current journals in Ayurved which are PubMed indexed. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 12:43, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

I very much doubt that an article entitled 'Pubmed indexed journals in Ayurveda' would be acceptable. Misplaced Pages is not a directory. If individual journals can be shown to be of significance, there may be grounds for discussing them in the Ayurveda article - but this would need evidence from third-party reliable sources. This isn't really the best place to discuss this though - I suggest you discuss article content on Talk:Ayurveda. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:48, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok. I will copy this discussion there. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 18:16, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

A., RAJA

you dont even have the common sense to explain to me why u have undid my edit, (I have added one appropriate section, I want to know why u think it is in appropriate) think before u write something, dont just revert my edit BLINDLY, JUST BECAUSE UR FRIEND SAID IT ) who ru to report and what would u report??? I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS WRONG IN THE CATEGORY I ADDED, I WANT TO KNOW, U HEAR ME DO U DO U DO U Murrallli (talk) 14:18, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

TO ME WHAT IS GROSS VIOLATION, EXPLAIN TO ME, EXPLAIN EXPLAIN EXPLAIN EXPLAIN Murrallli (talk) 14:23, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Raja has been convicted of nothing. I suggest you withdraw your threat immediately - otherwise I will report the matter to WP:ANI. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:28, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

A. Raja

1. he was in jail for 15 months, and even if he is not convicted, he has half part in the scandal.

2. I did not intend any threat to u, I take it back, but you learn to put proper edit summaries, u addressing me with the word gross violation is not acceptable.

3. You just blindly accused me of gross violation, what should I do for that report??? Time waste Murrallli (talk) 14:37, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't care what you do - since you have violated policy, I am reporting the matter at WP:ANI - I see that this is not an isolated case . AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:44, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

That whether i take back my word or not,

an action was conspired to take on me by you and ur friend, few days earlier itself??? tell me who ru, i think u know me personally and hold grudge on me Murrallli (talk) 14:59, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

you have set the policy ???

your point of view on how to address u is ur policy, not wiki policy, u report me to take action on me for no apparent reason NON SENSEMurrallli (talk) 15:00, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

I suggest you familiarise yourself with Misplaced Pages policy, then respond at WP:ANI. I shall not respond further here. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:03, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, stop spamming Andy's talk page. You don't need to create a new section for each reply/comment you make. Seriously. Flyer22 (talk) 15:06, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Nadi pariksha

Dear AndyTheGrump, An article, Nadi pariksha has been created. You might be interested to have a look at it. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 11:13, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

See my comments on the article talk page. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:27, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Many secondary sources are added and the tag has been removed. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 17:16, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

It is totally fine if the unsourced material is removed. I will try to find the reliable source and will put the materail again with proper sources. About new articles created by me - I am not creating many articles. I am in fact linking the articles related to Ayurveda at the article of Ayurveda. Is it not advisable? Kindly expalin if it is so. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 17:24, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Dear AndyTheGrump, There are many secondary sources like this one as per this guideline. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 17:32, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Once again, I will remind you that WP:MEDRS policy applies in this topic area - the sources you have recently cited are not secondary as defined by the guideline, and without such secondary sources, articles are unlikely to meet our notability policies. Whether the article was started by you (as with 'Nadi pariksha') or by another person is immaterial. Misplaced Pages is not a platform for the promotion of practices not recognised by the medical mainstream, whether 'traditional' or otherwise. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:33, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing WP:MEDRS to my attention. I was not aware of it. I will go thorough it. I dont think that I am promoting the materil. I am trying to build encyclopedia. There are many many secondary sources which fulfills the criteria. I will try to search them and then we can discuss about specific issue. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 17:40, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

It is fine for me if the article gets deleted. If it does not meet the notability criteria, it should be deleted. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 17:49, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Missing trio reversion was bitey

I felt like this edit was a little WP:BITEy since that was the user's first ever edit and you could have easily noticed that nobody had even welcomed them yet since their talk page was a red link. Just thought I'd leave this here and maybe you can be a bit more magnanimous next time. AgnosticAphid talk 15:57, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

I strongly suspect that that wasn't the user's first edit, and that they were the same person who has been adding similar material as User:Hamitdown (see the article history). Note that the link in question was to a BBC story entitled 'Dispute over Amanda Berry rescue story' - User:Hamitdown repeatedly added similar links, without explanation, to various places within the article. And note further that User:Hamitdown has failed to take this to the talk page, or to attempt any meaningful communication whatsoever. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:06, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

PubMed indexed journals in Ayurveda.

Journal of Ayurveda and Integrative Medicine is one of the indivisual journals. As per your these edits, should we discuss it in the article of Ayurveda? I have posted this on the talk page of Ayurveda. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 18:08, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

I have already made my position clear. I see no legitimate reason for a list of journals. As to whether any of the journals can be cited for article content, that will clearly depend on the particular circumstances. This is all set out in policy, and I see nothing to discuss unless you are making a concrete proposal. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:19, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for answering. I really appriciate the time and energy you are putting to expalin the point patiently. I would request to ignore if some of my actions seems intimidating. They are not. My concern is - how to show appriciation of some of scientific works going on in Ayurveda. I think that PubMed indexed jounals is really a great thing which is happening in Ayurveda. And surely I dont intend to promote Ayurveda here. What I want to convey is - due weitage shold be given to this point in the article as it is am important aspect. Now you are saying about 'concrete proposal'. I really liked the concept. I would take some time and then would come with some concrete proposal. Till that time I would request you to guide me as time permits about it. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 19:28, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Religious views of Adolf Hitler

You recently undid an edit I made on the Wiki, citing that you my sources "said nothing of the kind". I'm sorry if you were confused and unable to find the relevant information on the websites I provided.

Here is the edit you removed:

However, the Nazis actually banned paganism, while tolerating Christianity. Here are the links since they don't seem to work on your lovely page here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/tch_wjec/germany19291947/2racialreligiouspolicy2.shtml http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/181472.article

The first link explicitly says that pagans were banned. Click the link and push "CTRL F" on the keyboard, and search for the word "pagan". It will lead you directly to "the kind".

The second link, if you click on it and read the article states

"The paganists found themselves locked in an ultimately futile battle for influence over the "positive Christians" who dominated the higher echelons of the party. While Christians were tolerated, the paganist organisation, the "German faith movement", was banned by the Nazis in 1935."

Again, it might be easier for you rather than having to actually put too much effort in reading, push "CTRL F" on the keyboard and search for the word "pagan". Once you confirm, please get back to me or undo your revert.Greengrounds (talk) 05:18, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

The BBC source does not state that pagans were banned - the word 'Pagan' isn't in the bulleted list of banned groups - it is a sentence following the list (though why you are using GCSE crib notes as a source, I've no idea - I very much doubt they'd be accepted as WP:RS for such matters while we have scholarly articles on the subject.) As for your second source, it states that the pro-Nazi German Faith Movement was ultimately banned. It does not state that paganism was. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:31, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

So the German Faith Movement, a pagan group was banned. Does that deserve a place in the article?Greengrounds (talk) 07:51, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

If you have a source that makes a direct link between Adolf Hitler's religious views and the banning, it might possibly - though obviously this would depend on the source, and on what it actually said. To make any assumptions about Hitler's reasons for banning the organisation would constitute original research. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:29, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

In that case, can you please peruse the article? There is a whole section called "Nazi persecution of the church", without links that it had to do with Hitler's religious beliefs. I will remove that section right away, just waiting for you to get back to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Greengrounds (talk • contribs) 21:12, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

You seem to be under the misapprehension that I am involved in your long-running debate over the content of this article. I'm not. I have it watchlisted mainly because it has attracted vandalism in the past. I commented on your edit because it clearly wasn't properly sourced. Nothing I have said can have any bearing one way or another on other parts of the article. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:25, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

March Against Monsanto

In this case, ranting at the Help Desk about the removal of the poorly formatted list of cities had an unintended consequence (to those who wanted it all in the article). I am not convinced that the article is fixable, and I nominated it for deletion. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:03, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

I can certainly see the case for deletion, though there may just about be a case for retention - there seems to have been some media coverage at least: . AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:08, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

3RR

You should be willing to discuss a rationale for removing as you are in danger of violating of the 3-revert rule. 71.2.172.65 (talk) 23:02, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

We do not answer medical questions. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:04, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Oldest trick in the book....

Re: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of bullycides - some editors, when they have lost the debate, will try to provoke intemperate responses from their opponents in order to refocus on the discussion on civility issues. Your opinion is prevailing so stop bloody falling for it. It really is the oldest trick in the book. CIreland (talk) 23:33, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah - you're right of course. I'll try to stay shtum... AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:43, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring. Thank you. Ramaksoud2000 05:07, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

- Vianello (Talk) 04:13, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

favor to ask

Dear Sir,

Can you please delete the page Lego the lone ranger that I created. I did a terrible job! ThanksTheMouthofSauron (talk) 16:37, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

I've tagged it for speedy deletion, which should do the job. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:46, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring. Thank you.

Hey Andy, don't mean to butt in but regarding this, if I were you I'd consider self-reverting and stating you'll take it to the Talk page at the 3RR report. I took a look at the disputed edit, and although it clearly is indeed garbage, it doesn't (in my opinion) quite rise to a BLP violation clearly enough to avoid being counted as a revert per 3RR. The patrolling admin might agree with you but might not. I'd hate to see you blocked for something as silly as that. Just my opinion, worth every penny you paid for it... Zad68 18:46, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to self-revert a POV-pushing WP:BLP violation back into an article. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:48, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

As you wish, I hope I'm totally wrong about it! Zad68 18:49, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

...and you were 100% right, something for me to learn from about WP:BLP. Zad68 18:56, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

It is always a bit risky arguing the 'WP:BLP is exempt from WP:3RR' line, and I don't recommend it as a general course of action. You do need a strong case, and had Attleboro even made a token effort to tone it down, it might have gone differently. Hopefully we can now sort this out properly once and for all. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:03, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

NPOV page move

Since when is it considered controversial to move a page to a neutral title? What is controversial? Misplaced Pages's NPOV policy? --Uncle Ed (talk) 15:09, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

Re: OTRS ticket

The significance is that other OTRS agents can see the communications relevant to the article, and the ticket was provided per request by IRWolfie-. Further discussion can be seen on the article talk page. LFaraone 23:58, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

unnesessory desrtuctive edits going on in Ayurveda article.

respected AndyTheGrump, i would like you to look at the recent removals by Littleolive oil (http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Littleolive_oil ) in Ayurveda Article. thanking you. dr nachiket . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nachiket Vijay Potdar (talk • contribs) 15:42, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

There is nothing 'destructive' in removing copyright violations from articles. Please ensure in future that you do not copy-paste material (except properly marked and attributed quotations) into articles. Misplaced Pages takes breaches of copyright very seriously. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:48, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Respected Sir, Lancet is most respected journel in medicine,as its a quoted in lancet and i being new to wikipedia ,i did the changes unknowingly.But still i want my changes to be resumed and shouldnt be removed for mere langiustic issues.As per your instructions i have made paraphresial changes and even after doing so the content is removed. Being a doctor i feel humiliated even after giving 'The Lancet's ' referense. Please consider. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nachiket Vijay Potdar (talk • contribs) 16:12, 1 June 2013 (UTC)‎

Looking into this further, I have to agree with the person who reverted you - the sentence you added is simply misplaced. The first and second paragraphs of the article lede give the historical context of Ayurveda, and adding a modern response in the middle makes no sense at all. Note also that the third paragraph of the lede already discusses safety concerns and similar issues. As to whether the article needs to discuss further the Lancet material, it is difficult for me to judge without access to the full article - from what I can see, this may well be an opinion piece, and as such should probably be attributed to the author, rather than cited as an assertion of fact - and I see that the Lancet indicates that this is a qoutation. Have you read the entire article, and if so, can you clarify who is being quoted? (P.S. please sign your posts thus ~~~~). AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:58, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Courtesy note regarding removal of comments

I removed some comments of yours that degraded the climate of discussion at RSN. It can never be helpful or productive to make personal attacks, and the ensuing escalation was predictable. Regards, -- Ohc _{¿que pasa?} 23:26, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, CamelBinky seems utterly convinced I'm leading some sort of 'anti-primary-source-cabal' on Misplaced Pages, and has been engaging telepathic powers to provide the evidence... AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:36, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

ANI

Thanks, I am not sure how I did that. I was leaving a one line comment on the page. Oh, wait, I followed a link in to the discussion from a talk page. I bet I followed a link to a old point in time in the discussion and not the most current discussion. Anyway sorry and thanks for the fix. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 14:25, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Oops! Easily done - I've done similar things myself. Anyway, it was simple enough to fix, so no harm done. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:28, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Diagnosis in Ayurveda.

If a PubMed indexed Ayurvedic journal says that there is difference of opinions in ayurvedic doctors about diagnostic methods, why the sentence is being removed? It is a fact that many diseases needs to be reclassified! I really did not like that the sentences were removed under the section of diagnosis.--Abhijeet Safai (talk) 05:36, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

The correct place to discuss article content is on the relevant article talk page: I suggest you ask the question there, where others will also see it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:44, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Ok thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 05:47, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

E-Cat

In answer to what I wrote, I think you advised me to read the piece on fringe science. I have. Would you be good enough to read what I wrote on the E-CAT topic talk page and tell me where it is not factual? (copied below) I tried editing the actual article but it was immediately deleted. Possibly go to Resolution?

This discussion page rambles to the point it is difficult to follow. There are two main points that are clearly wrong.

1, The statement that no independent test has been carried out. You can't prove a negative and so can't possibly know that. In fact an independent test has been carried out. The paper is available for viewing or downloading at arXiv:1305,3903 It was paid for and commented about by Elforsk on their official site. Elforsk is a large, well known R&D organization, equivalent to EPRI. It can't get much more official than that.

It doesn't matter that it has not been peer reviewed yet, or that some don't like the experimental procedure. An independent test HAS been run. There are various secondary sources of confirmation mentioned, such as Gibbs in Forbes magazine. I expect that several other tests have been run by large organizations doing their due diligence.

2. The comment on an independent test is followed by a very negative commentary taken from a blog site run by Ugo Bardi. The comments to his post were uniformly negative. Mine was censored. What is the justification for this? I can point to several other blogs run by scientists, including a Nobel Prize winner and a Chief Scientist at NASA, that come to the opposite conclusion.

One can only conclude that there are several editors on this topic that are so convinced that LENR is impossible that they favor anything negative about it. For example, the selective quote from Elforsk given. The full quote is shown below. (Google translation)

Swedish researchers have tested Rossi energy catalyst - E-cat

"Researchers from Uppsala University and KTH Stockholm has conducted measurements of the produced heat energy from a device called the E-cat. It is known as an energy catalyst invented by the Italian scientist Andrea Rossi.

The measurements show that the catalyst gives substantially more energy than can be explained by ordinary chemical reactions. The results are very remarkable. What lies behind the extraordinary heat production can not be explained today. There has been speculation over whether there can be any form of nuclear transformation. However, this is highly questionable. To learn more about what is going on you have to learn what is happening with the fuel and the waste it produces. The measurements have been funded by such Elforsk."

For those the prefer peer reviewed papers, there are several hundred listed that confirm LENR here. lenr-canr.org

Rossi forecast at the beginning that nothing would convince the skeptics until working E-CATs were out in the market and he was right. I wonder what you will say when Defkalion demonstrate their Hyperion at the National Instruments Week in August.

LENR has now been proven beyond all reasonable doubt. This negatively biased wiki entry on the E-CAT is doing a great disservice to thousands of viewers. Parallel (talk) 20:48, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm not this slightest bit interested in debating this with you here, since you clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:54, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I have opened a dispute notice and you are invited to respond. http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Energy_Catalyzer Parallel (talk) 00:53, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Reply to your comment

You write you are not interested in debating this, but as you believe LENR is fringe science and accuse me of being clueless, you might get a better understanding if you read this short post by Jed Rothwell.

…The author asked: "Jed, thanks for this. I see the experiment is clearly defined on pages 8 and 9. The paper was written in 1996. Do you know of any place the number of successful vs. unsuccessful times this specific experiment has been done?"

My response: Storms himself did this when he was writing the paper. He began with 98 cathodes. It took him about a year to test them following the methods in this paper. At the end of that time he found 4 that passed all tests. These 4 worked repeatedly at high s/n ratios. So, looking at those 4 the success rate was 100%. Looking at the entire batch of cathodes the rate was 4%.

Take your pick. It depends on how you look at it.

Miles tested 94 cathodes and found 28 worked. That’s a 29% success rate. However, when he used cathodes recommended by Fleischmann and Johnson Matthey, 4 out of 4 worked,producing about 10 times more heat than any other type. So that’s 100%. Again, take your pick. The McKubre figures in this report show a similar pattern:http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/McKubreMCHcoldfusionb.pdf

If you get a good source of material such as Johnson Matthey or the ENEA, and you are good at electrochemistry, and you test the cathodes beforehand by the methods recommended by Storms, Cravens, Fleischmann and others, and you measure control parameters so you can tell how close you are and what to do next, then it will work nearly 100% of the time. If you do not do these things it may work 30% of the time, or 3%, or never. There is no telling. It is like shooting in the dark. Or, as Storms puts it, it is like picking up pieces of gravel, testing them, and hoping to find a semiconductor.

Let me add that practically the only person who made a serious effort to replicate Flieschmann exactly, following all advice and protocols, was the late Georges Lonchampt. He was an engineer. He was the chief designer of the French fission power reactors and a commissioner on the French Atomic Energy commission. Such people are technically skilled and they are used to following instructions, unlike academic scientists. He reported that it worked every time, exactly as Fleischmann said it would. The head of BARC and later chairman of the Indian Atomic Energy commission also replicated successfully, again because he was the kind of person who is used to following instructions.

He and his colleagues also successfully replicated the U.S. thermonuclear bomb. That is an extremely hazardous undertaking, so he knew a thing or two about following instructions.

If you want something replicated properly you should turn to people like this. The last people on earth you should turn to are academic physicists, especially plasma fusion scientists. In 1989 and 1990 they found more ways to do this experiment wrong than you can imagine, including mixing up the anode and the cathode. - Jed Parallel (talk) 12:36, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help find a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!

Your work here

Hello Andy,

I no longer remember the context, but a couple of years ago, I disagreed with you about something, and commented that you should try to be less grumpy. Now, I believe that you should be a grumpy as you wish, and are able to be, within reasonable limits, and in opposition to the hoardes of POV pushers and cranks who swarm to Misplaced Pages. Something motivated me to take a look at your recent work on several controversial topics. Your firmness and insistence on high standards, especially on topics related to science, medicine and most especially BLPs, is really needed here. I do not have the personality traits to consistently do the type of work that you do. I work mostly on welcoming and mentoring new users, as well as non controversial content creation. But as I have learned more about the "dark underbelly" of this wonderful project, I have developed a deeper appreciation of the importance of your work. So, thank you. I hope that you contribute for many years to come. Cullen Let's discuss it 02:04, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, I could probably achieve the same results with a little less grump, and the same amount of firmness - but that's the way I am. One of the nice things about working on Misplaced Pages is that it allows you to find your own niche, and I seem to have sort of gravitated into this one. Anyway, thanks for your comments, it is good to know that I'm seen as doing useful work. AndyTheGrump (talk) 12:40, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Reply

Dear Andy, Thank you for your message on my Talk Page. I have responded in full there. Horatio Snickers (talk) 11:40, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikilinking words in quotes

I didn't know that, thanks 74.101.128.155 (talk) 18:15, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I'd take a look at WP:OVERLINK too - it is rarely necessary to link the same word more than once. AndyTheGrump (talk)

Talkback

WhiteWriter 19:45, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

troll?

Is your spidey sense tingling too? — The Potato Hose 15:25, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Indeed it is... AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:32, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Excuse me? --Ivilbderoneday (talk) 15:34, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

IP blocks

I've blocked the IP you warned and their brother. If other siblings continue to edit war, I suppose there's nothing for it but semi the article. Bishonen | talk 15:45, 7 June 2013 (UTC).

ANI

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. --Ivilbderoneday (talk) 15:51, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Eugene Plotkin RfC

It has been over 30 days since the RfC on the Eugene Plotkin talk page was opened and I believe consensus regarding a page move was reached a good 10 days ago. However, I am concerned if I move the page, it will set off another edit war with user Smallbones. Can you please close the RfC and move the page as you see fit? Factchecker25 (talk) 00:23, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

I think it might be better to ask an uninvolved contributor to close it. You could ask for this at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Requests for closure. AndyTheGrump (talk) 00:34, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion. I added the request to the noticeboard. Factchecker25 (talk) 04:07, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Islamophobia

I accidentially reverted you via edit conflict, but I would have done so anyway. Perhaps you would like to use the talkpage and explain how it is "a gross violation of WP:NPOV" to try and introduce neutral and unemotional wording to an article which has been tagged as broken for ages? I know that prejudice exists, but using an article titled about an inflammatory slur to discuss them is not a very clever idea. "Islamophobia" is like "pro life" and "pro choice", the term itself stifles all discussion because it is a wholesale attack on an opposing view. If you want to discuss Islam-related controversies or the like, please do it under a neutral title. I am sure we can agree that "abortion controversy" is a more wikilike title than "baby-killing", right? Then why make the same mistake here. --dab (𒁳) 15:46, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

See WP:BRD - I have reverted your edits again. As for your comments on the word 'Islamophobia', it is a term widely used in academia, and your attempts to suggest otherwise are frankly ridiculous. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:59, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Question

Hi Andy. Was just wondering; in this edit you remove the statement about McEnroe doping from the lead and imply it is unsourced, but the paragraph in the body contains a reliable source. Did you realise this? Or am I missing something? Basalisk ⁄_berate 17:53, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Scratch that, just seen the talk page. But in light of the fact that the statement in the body is sourced, what do you think of the doping category? Basalisk ⁄_berate 17:55, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, sorry about that. I thought I'd looked for a source before I edited, but must have missed it. Regarding the categories, I can't see how this is a 'doping case' - it only came to light after McEnroe's career ended, and I'm not even sure that the use of the steroids used was banned at the time. Describing it as a 'doping case' seems to imply more than the sources state. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:08, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

"nutters" and the "utterly insane"

You chastised another contributor for using the term "nutters" to refer to those who fake cancer. Your justification for this admonishment is that the term seemed to show disrespect for those with mental health issues. But you referred to my contributions as "utterly insane".

That is inconsistent.

If you and I were friends I would offer you the heads-up that this kind of inconsistency is likely to erode your credibility. If you and I were friends I would warn you that using inflammatory language, like calling other contributor's work "utterly insane" is damaging to the project in general -- where we are all supposed to do our best to maintain an environment of civility and collegiality. Geo Swan (talk) 19:43, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm not interested in debating this - including someone who had cancer in a 'list of cancer victim hoaxes' was a gross violation of WP:BLP policy. AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:47, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

There is an aphorism most of us learned in nursery school -- "two wrongs don't make a right". Could you please consider whether this lesson should apply to your comments in discussions here?

If you agreed the lesson did apply here, you would refrain from making inflammatory comments, without regard to how "gross" you think some other contributor's lapse was. I suggest you should be able to find a way to make your points -- without insulting other people.

Interestingly, I just revisited WP:Articles for deletion/List of bullycides -- another discussion where you used inflammatory language specifically "Are you out of your f*cking minds!". Again, if you and I were friends I would warn you that your use of inflammatory language was not only damaging to the project in general -- if we were friends, I'd be concerned for you that this kind of disregard of our standards could have negative consequences for you, personally. Geo Swan (talk) 21:15, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

We are not friends. Please do not post on my talk page again, unless necessary for notification purposes. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:18, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Notification of reply

This is to notify you that I have replied to your comment attempting to ban me. I gather there is an automated way of advising you but I don't know how to use it Parallel (talk) 20:47, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

There is no need to notify me - I am watching the discussion. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:51, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

You really miss the point - again

You wrote: Harassing other editors and threatening to reveal their identities

This is your only warning for harassing other editors and threatening to reveal their personal information. Because of an editing dispute, you posted at Talk:Energy Catalyzer "How would yo like to be made out to be a criminal, by name, on WIkipedia?" This constitutes harassment, a violation of the policy WP:HARASSMENT and revealing the name of another editor who wishes to be anonymous would violate the policy WP:OUTING. Any repetition of such behavior will result in your being blocked from editing. Such comments are not a reasonable part of improving the article, which is the only purpose of the talk page. If you intended to complain that another editor had called you a criminal, there are other venues for that, such as first asking the editor on his talk page to remove the offending text or second, complaining at WP:ANI. In any event, it would be well to remove or strike through the text in question. Edison (talk) 14:35, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Hard to believe that you are so biased you didn't recognize that was a rhetorical question to "unsigned" (how the hell would I identify him anyway) who accused Rossi of being a criminal. I therefore asked him how he would like it. Parallel (talk) 21:50, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for demonstrating your incompetence - I didn't write that, User:Edison did. Please do not post on my talk page again except for the purposes of formal notification. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:59, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

1. http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/tch_wjec/germany19291947/2racialreligiouspolicy2.shtml
2. http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/181472.article