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Welcome!

Hello, Apteva, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! - Darwinek (talk) 08:22, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Defining long term blocks

There are three categories of long term blocks. First are the constant vandals who never have any interest in assisting the encyclopedia, rarely create a user name, and as a result only receive short term blocks, but are initiated repeatedly, with the same affect as a long term block. Second are the long term vandals who build up sufficient history to be identifiable, and every time they are blocked simply create another sockpuppet. These are all indefinitely blocked, but often make some useful edits. Some have behavioral difficulties that make them unable to work well in a collaborative environment and will attempt to hijack articles with their point of view. These are topic banned, but since the topic they are banned from is really the only topic they are interested in editing, the topic ban is ineffectual. The third type is the long term editor such as User:Rich Farmbrough or User:Pmanderson, each with over 50,000 edits, each of whom was perceived as problematic at some point and received escalated blocks of a year (the first just now begun, the second just now ended).

These long term blocks hurt Misplaced Pages more than it helps. Since 2007, Misplaced Pages has been losing editors, first because of robo-warning new editors, and second, because of long term editors getting tired about "arguing with morons about trivia".

A short term block of 24 hours is usually at least five times longer than it needs to be. The normal attention span on the Internet is about 8 seconds, and beyond that the individual moves on to something else more interesting. Blocks are always preventative, never punitive, but none of the long term blocks can ever be described as preventative. The only thing they prevent is contributions. They do not magically stop all vandalism, or magically stop all POV editing.

A better definition of a long term block would be a week. While no one wants a vandal coming back in a week, the fact is that that even with an indefinite block they come back far sooner than a week, if they choose, and there is nothing that can be done to prevent that, short of locking down the entire encyclopedia from all edits. The ones who are affected by a week long block do not need to be blocked, because they are not creating sockpuppets and instead are waiting out the block. If they have the patience to wait out a block for a week, they have the patience to find a useful edit, and do not need to be blocked.

Misplaced Pages is shooting itself in the foot, and needs to take corrective action. The first step is to eliminate blocks of longer than one week, and instead of escalated blocks lasting 31 hours/1 week/1 month/1 year, use ones that last 1 hour/3 hours/24 hours/1 week. Each additional week that a productive editor is blocked would unnecessarily result in the loss of hundreds of valuable edits.

The only thing that all of us has is our time, and it can never be saved up or given to anyone else, and when it is lost, it is lost forever. Apteva (talk) 00:24, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Exactly. The time that dozens of editors wasted on dealing with your nonsense will never be recovered. Hopefully we will at least prevent a reoccurrence of that waste. The fact that you use your time off in denial is not, however, a good omen of what to expect when your block expires. Dicklyon (talk) 01:56, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Facts are facts. I am a productive editor whom blocking is about as idiotic as blocking User:Jimbo Wales or User:Larry Sanger. If it takes half a million bytes to decide if someone is a problem, the problem lies elsewhere. Apteva (talk) 02:13, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I think Dicklyon's point is well made: just as a block prevents a user from contributing as he or she might wish, involving the community in lengthy and repetitious disputes also prevents otherwise productive editors from focusing on worthwhile contributions to the encyclopedia. If one's goal is to give editors more freedom to improve and contribute to Misplaced Pages (and that's certainly an excellent goal), then I think it's good to keep this in mind. ╠╣uw  19:12, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

That was already pointed out when the RFC/U was opened, that it served no purpose and was solely done to disrupt Misplaced Pages to make a point. In real life I create tons of things, just as many of us do (one of whom I believe may be working on their second book), but in Misplaced Pages, I do not create anything, I document them in Misplaced Pages, using verifiable, reliable sources. We are prohibited from creating our own content, and that is one of Misplaced Pages's weaknesses – we do not allow experts to create articles as is normally done when an encyclopedia is written (go find some experts on the subjects and ask them to write articles). We can of course, copy in early encyclopedias, but some (a few) things have changed in the intervening years. Apteva (talk) 22:09, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Nomination for merging of Template:Mrv

Template:Mrv has been nominated for merging with Template:MRVdiscuss. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you.

Sorry to see that you've been blocked. It's sad to see good editors like you and Rich F. get blocked. No one gets things to go their way on every issue. You should learn to accept consensus decisions when they go against your views. You can continue to make arguments in support of your positions, and hope that eventually the crowd will change their mind and get it right. But you might have better luck if you do this by more subtle means that are not widely viewed as disruptive. (I haven't been paying attention, so I don't know the reasons for your block) Best wishes, Wbm1058 (talk) 15:11, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Soliciting for other editors and use of {{helpme}} now raised at WP:AN

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Using Help me, blocked users and proxy editing". Thank you.

I appreciate that you're blocked from replying there, so as the editor who raised this, I have some responsibility for giving you a voice. Oddly as it would seem, given the background to this issue, I will endeavour to cross-post any reasonable messages that you might wish into that thread (although other editors are of course welcome to do so first). Andy Dingley (talk) 18:05, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

There is likely nothing that I could add that any other intelligent editor could not add. Blocks are never punitive, and solely preventative. My block is inappropriate because it is solely punitive and is not one iota preventative. Contributions are welcome from everyone, regardless of their status, and however they are received. This includes from a sockmaster that has been blocked a thousand times as well as from someone who never registers an account. We learn about some edits that need to be made from reading about them in the Daily Post, and some from someone making the edit. All that matters is that this is a world class encyclopedia, and we accomplish that through the five pillars, which is why the welcome notice with a link to them is displayed always on my talk page. There is much that I would be able to contribute but that I can not both because of being blocked but also because of being under silly sanctions which will be appealed soon. Apteva (talk) 19:58, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I have posted this across to AN. Just a thought but carrying on as if you are an innocent victim is bound to end in tears. I don't think I ever saw so much lack of self-awareness and intransigence in the 7 years I have been on wiki. If you continue your crusade when your block expires you should be aware that further blocking is inevitable. Spartaz 20:03, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

I would echo what Spartaz has said here, and Dicklyon's "in denial" comment above. There is an issue here, and you're obviously unaware of it. Until you realise that, then I see little hope of progress. Your self-comparison to Jimbo is ludicrous.

As to your point here, then you are blocked. I make no comment on this. However you've now managed to take your behaviour since blocked and to turn that into a whole new problem too. You can at least address that, but if you instead focus on why everyone else is wrong in blocking you, we're likely to block you even more "wrongly" and for longer and longer. Dicklyon's comment, "The time that dozens of editors wasted on dealing with your nonsense will never be recovered." is apposite here: Misplaced Pages regrets that wasted time and will act to reduce its likelihood in the future – probably by blocking you until you vanish. Better editors than you have already been removed in such a manner, whether deservedly or not. This will happen again in your case, and Misplaced Pages won't bat an eyelid. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:18, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to disagree, but Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, it is not, well there is a whole list of things it is not. We have brought it about half way to becoming a world class encyclopedia, no not even that (by measure of what would be left is only FA articles are included), and our sole goal here is to make it better, not worse. Along the way we have occasionally made one step forward and two steps backwards. We can never lose sight of our purpose here and degenerate into name calling or anything else that will detract from our purpose. All of the time spent complaining about me was wasted (500,000 bytes, about 134 pages), as it could have been accomplished with two words by any admin (and no those two words are not "I have blocked you"). Nothing I have ever done has been done other than to improve the encyclopedia. No one can be ranked as better or worse than anyone else. Misplaced Pages depends on the contributions of everyone, and if better editors than me have left, that is Misplaced Pages's problem, and needs to be addressed. Apteva (talk) 21:37, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

{{helpme}} Please post to thread above.

{{quote|Remind me to notify Arb that some of our admins are unaware of our purpose here. What "and they have independent reasons for making such edits" means, plain and simple, is if a blocked editor sees that Misplaced Pages misspells the word "book" somewhere, say, as "bork", a quick consultation of a dictionary reveals that the word is misspelled. That is what independent reason means, not that you have to independently ''discover'' the error. No further action is needed, and the thread can be closed.}} Apteva (talk) 20:14, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Did not realize anyone was going to be so eager to post everything here there and I ask that not be continued. As to User:Beeblebrox this link will notify them that they were referenced. Two unblock requests are enough, though a third would be acceptable. This block has already been appealed to Arb, and any member of Arb can at any time respond and remove the block, with the concurrence of other members of the committee. Normally we tolerate about four and then stop talk page access, though policy specifically states that there is no limit to the number of unblock requests that can be submitted. Banned community members and others prohibited from editing directly can still create content that can end up in Misplaced Pages, which is the same as editing directly, just not quite as directly as clicking the edit link. My sole goal is to help improve the encyclopedia. The AN thread was diverted off of its actual topic as soon as my username was mentioned, which is predictable. I am blocked now because I do not appreciate incivility, and sought appropriate venues to stop it from occurring. The "club" did not like being accused of incivility, and blocked me so that I would not post yet another ANI or AE action about incivility, something which is clearly an appropriate venue. I have already said I will wait to see what the recommendation of the civility enforcement RfC suggests, and if the object of incivility will in the meantime disengage rather than go open another ANI/AE complaint. Blocking me is solely Misplaced Pages's loss and not my loss. I do not get "points" for editing, and do everything PD where that is permitted. This edit is not a PD edit. Apteva (talk) 21:01, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Note to BYK. I am tenacious (a good quality), not tendentious (a bad quality). There is a huge difference. But I am not "he", "she", a "guy" or a "gal", but an editor. Thanks. Apteva (talk) 22:17, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

• Per the above thread, I have locked your talkpage access. Please see my closing comment for reasoning. Black Kite (talk) 22:58, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

email

That actually should have been WP:UTRS or WP:BASC. Apteva (talk) 00:48, 24 June 2013 (UTC)