User talk:Lobsterthermidor: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 19:19, 25 June 2013 editLobsterthermidor (talk \| contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers43,276 edits →Rare survivals ← Previous edit		Revision as of 23:06, 25 June 2013 edit undoSmalljim (talk \| contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators94,142 edits →Civility: new sectionNext edit →
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	This strongly suggests that you are looking at Misplaced Pages as a place to store these rare survivals of ancient information. Whilst this is a worthy objective, it isn't part of Wikpedia's remit, so you may, as I recall CaroleHenson suggested to you recently, be better off setting up your own website for this purpose where you can work without our restrictions.  —]]  10:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)		This strongly suggests that you are looking at Misplaced Pages as a place to store these rare survivals of ancient information. Whilst this is a worthy objective, it isn't part of Wikpedia's remit, so you may, as I recall CaroleHenson suggested to you recently, be better off setting up your own website for this purpose where you can work without our restrictions.  —]]  10:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
	:I'm very happy to work with WP restrictions, I think we're feeling our way as to just what they are in this area, following the recent discussion re Manorial Histories. I don't recall Carole having made that point to me. I'm very happy with your latest edits to ] - not quite so happy with Carole's rewrite of ], but I'll make my points on that one there. (] (]) 19:19, 25 June 2013 (UTC))		:I'm very happy to work with WP restrictions, I think we're feeling our way as to just what they are in this area, following the recent discussion re Manorial Histories. I don't recall Carole having made that point to me. I'm very happy with your latest edits to ] - not quite so happy with Carole's rewrite of ], but I'll make my points on that one there. (] (]) 19:19, 25 June 2013 (UTC))

			== Civility ==

			Regarding to CaroleHenson's talk page, please read ] and ensure you abide by it. Thanks.  —]]  23:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 23:06, 25 June 2013

Archives

/Archive 1

Warbelton v. Gorges

Interesting read :) I like coming across articles like this one when I'm doing new page patrol. I wonder if you could explain, why was the charter written in French rather than English? Sorry if it's a stupid question, my history knowledge is pretty bad. --Physics is all gnomes (talk) 13:49, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your approval. It was in French because the English court spoke French ever since the Norman Conquest, and this trend became more pronounced after King Edward III, reigning at the time this charter was made, claimed the French throne in right of his mother. Perhaps I should add this info to the article. Now, assuming from your username you are a physicist, perhaps you can explain to me what nuclear fission is all about - just joking! (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 14:02, 7 April 2011 (UTC))

Lol, I can try if you like. Thanks for the explanation, I learnt something new today

--Physics is all gnomes (talk) 14:11, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

O tempora!

Can you quote me a use of tempus in context?

I think I've only ever seen it abbreviated, temp. Hen. II (for, I presume, tempore Henrici secundi) meaning in the time of H2. Obviously there are contexts where tempus is correct even in Latin, but it's not trivial to imagine a context where an historian would use temp. Hen. II as the subject or object of a verb. —Tamfang (talk) 21:03, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

I believe I've seen it innumerable times, but can't quote one of them. Can't fault your logic. Will keep my eyes peeled for next one I see & report back. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:45, 13 May 2011 (UTC))

I can't ask more than that. —Tamfang (talk) 02:42, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I have had fun

With Pimp tenure. I even found an online copy of Thomas Blount's book. No online copies of the rolls yet, as far as I know! Rich Farmbrough, 18:31, 18 May 2011 (UTC).

Great additions, feel free to expand from your sources, it would definitely provide extra interest. I have provided a translation of your Latin quote, which usefully states the tenure to be a form of serjeany (the text is surely corrupted, perhaps by the scanning process), as I had suspected. I keep telling people history's fun! (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 13:26, 20 May 2011 (UTC))

Failed swimmer notability

OK, I doubted that a consensus had bee reached on that, but honestly I wonder about the importance of a title like "Miss Charlene Wittstock". It sounds a bit ridiculous... Not to speak of even listing her ancestors who were total nullities, just because other noble figures had them. But they were NOT noble, so where's their relevance? I've decided to add that comic template also to my personal page: hope that at least satire can work. Ciao and good work. --'''Attilios''' (talk) 11:52, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

I like your collection of comic name plates - I hadn't realised you were a mammal. But seriously, the article on Charlene Wittstock should contain these standard records of fact, appropriate to the page of any royal personage. As royalty concerns heredity, ancestry and such matters are important, unlike in the case of a celebrity. If they can dig out Irish ancestors for Obama, who knows what ancient princes will be found in Charlene's ancestry. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:10, 3 July 2011 (UTC))

File:Soaptrust.jpg

Hi, I have corrected the license on this image: PD-old is plainly wrong because its author, Haselden has not been dead for more than 70 years (or even the 100 years claimed under that template). This image is still copyrighted in the UK, though PD in the US by virtue of pre-1923 publication. However, we still need to know where this image was obtained (it is obviously not scanned from the original newspaper, judging from the sharpness and different font of the partial text at the bottom). From which source was this image scanned from? Jappalang (talk) 04:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Well spotted, good addition and sorry for my oversight. Source now added (Wilson, C. History of Unilever, vol.1, p.81).(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:18, 16 August 2011 (UTC))

John Russell, 1st Earl of Bedford

Source for dates was Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (ODNB).PacificBoy 10:41, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Better to have provided this as a reference in the article.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:41, 11 August 2011 (UTC))

In addition to King John...

If you have five minutes and fancy taking a look, I'd welcome your thoughts on King Stephen. The article's in a pretty good state now, but it would benefit from someone with a good background in the sources looking over it as well. I'd like to try and take it to FAR at some point in the near future and you've a good eye for this sort of thing! Hchc2009 (talk) 16:49, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Hey, thanks! 5 minutes? The John article took me several hours to read carefully - and deserves no less! My focus of interest is really late John early H III at the moment. The John article is very informative and useful. The only area I would like to "interfere with" is the matter of punctuation and niggling little matters, which are perhaps just differences in American & English writing styles. For example, I find Americans use lots of ;'s and ,'s which I find detract from the text. There are lots of little clarifications needed, odd words to be replaced (i.e. "Wortham (sic) was responsible for fusing John's galleys"). What's needed is a classic & detailed edit job on the superficial areas, the text is there already. That's the trouble with FAR articles, they tend to fossilise for fear of losing their status due to change. I might have a go sometime and see if I get slapped down! (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 18:14, 26 August 2011 (UTC))

Well, perhaps a little bit more than 5 minutes! :) Once I've finished with Stephen I'd like to try and sort out the Henry II article which badly needs some work, but I've been distracted by some work on the Bastille in user-space... Hchc2009 (talk) 18:33, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

Dimidiation

Well, I didn't notice it until after looking at it for almost five minutes... AnonMoos (talk) 09:47, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

To be honest with you I was going to suggest in my caption a new term for such a phenomenon: "trimidiation"! I decided against it as I thought it just didn't sound right, with media meaning "middle" and di presumably coming from duos. Just as well! (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 11:34, 16 September 2011 (UTC))

The di is likely the same morpheme as in divide, which (according to the American Heritage Dictionary) is related to dis– rather than duo. —Tamfang (talk)

Thanks for the as ever useful correction - by the way belated thanks for putting me right earlier on temp. being tempore, I keep my eyes peeled when looking at the writings of antiquarians who do indeed use the ablative - or should that be locative, generally same ending I think.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 21:25, 24 December 2011 (UTC))

I gather that in Latin the ablative mostly absorbed the functions of the PIE locative and instrumental. —Tamfang (talk) 07:57, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Your {{merge to}} at Category:Methods of writing

I have converted your {{merge to}} at Category:Methods of writing to the more correct {{cfm}}. Please support your suggestion at the discussion here. Mark Hurd (talk) 03:02, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

File:FirstArmsOfGorges.jpg listed for deletion

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File:Heraldic gurges (whirlpool) Gorges.svg

Generally files in SVG vector format are preferred to PNGs or JPEGs as coat-of-arms illustrations (as opposed to photographs of old historic depictions). However, the distinction between "computerized" and "artistic hand-drawn" is by no means as simple as you assume -- for example, Commons:User:Sodacan creates a lot of SVG files from scratch which have significant artistic qualities. As for the specific case of the Gorges arms, the JPEG was adequate, but it was obviously a photograph of something drawn on paper with magic markers (or similar), so I had no hesitation in replacing it with a smooth geometric vector SVG, which could also serve as a source for a vector heraldic whirlpool for future authors of heraldic SVG files. I'm not actually much of an artist (definitely not if it comes to freehand drawing from scratch), but I can contribute things like that. (However, I may have made the shield a little too narrow...) -- AnonMoos (talk) 01:22, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

There's definitely a place for "artistic personality" in many heraldic representations, but I'm not sure that a modern illustration of the blazon argent, a gurges azure (or perhaps just gurges) really qualifies. For charges which can be defined in term of simple geometry, such as azure, a cross Or etc., most of the time you just want illustrations with the correct simple geometry, and which don't call attention to themselves with unnecessary fancy elaborations. AnonMoos (talk) 00:53, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

That seems like a fair comment. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:08, 14 October 2011 (UTC))

William de Botreaux, 2nd Baron Botreaux

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Now fixed (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 13:20, 4 February 2012 (UTC))

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Requested move at Talk:Arabesque (Islamic art)#Requested move

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Sic

Thank you for your contributions to the article Sic. I have started a discussion regarding the recent bold edits and would like to understand the purpose. —CodeHydro 14:06, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

The martlet in the cadency image

I made the image. I don't recall where the current version of that brisure came from. If you can find a better martlet anywhere on Wikimedia Commons and let me know, I'll be glad to replace it. Marnanel (talk) 12:27, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Your image was of a French Merlette, a type of duck, I have thrashed out the difference between this and the English martlet in the article martlet. A good image of the martlet is available at . I'll be glad to see the last of that French intruder into English heraldry on WP! Thanks (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:34, 1 May 2012 (UTC))

Twelve Knights of Glamorgan

		The Original Barnstar
		It's wonderful when you just happen upon a really interesting article. Thanks for making my day and all the other hard work you put into Misplaced Pages. FruitMonkey (talk) 11:46, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

That was one of my very first contributions! - and this is my first Barnstar, a very great honour, thanks. I'm really glad you enjoyed the article, there's a lot more to say on that topic, I hope I'll get round to it one day, but with WP one is constantly moving on...(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:09, 13 May 2012 (UTC))

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	One of the finest references that I have found. Thank you. Stuartwross (talk) 18:12, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Much appreciated! (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 00:15, 25 June 2012 (UTC))

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Tristram Risdon

Hello and thank you for your additions and corrections to Tristram Risdon. You do seem to have gone rather overboard on the lists and short choppy sections in that article, though. Both of these are looked on unfavourably here - see WP:BODY: "Very short or very long sections and subsections in an article look cluttered and inhibit the flow of the prose" and "Bullet points should be minimized in the body of the article, if they are used at all; however, a bulleted list may be useful to break up what would otherwise be a large, grey mass of text" (which in our case we have not got).

Similarly, quoteboxes are often used to "illustrate" an article where few relevant images are available. I also find them useful to separate a quote from the flow of the content when the quote isn't directly relevant to the text, but it does provide a useful or interesting example - as here where it gives a flavour of the style of Risdon's writing (not as dull as some have claimed, I think!)

Unless you can provide some persuasive arguments for retaining the new layout, I propose to substantially return it to how it was before. I'm happy to discuss, of course. —SMALL JIM 16:27, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

I like to use headers to encourage expansion of sections such as "Origins", for an input of geneaology, "Marriage & progeny" for expansion re. descent, etc. I like to find stuff quickly. Quoteboxes should surely state source on face, else seem rather too jouralistic, I find it irksome to see a block of text with no context at all. Surely better "illustrations" can be dreamt up than this. I'm not a WP lawyer and will not attempt to defeat your citations from the rule book. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:55, 7 July 2012 (UTC))

Hmm. Don't forget that the purpose of WP is to serve its readers, who vastly outnumber us editors, and it's to aid them that we have style guidelines to follow. Rather than leaving an article in such a disjointed state for an indeterminate length of time, it's surely more appropriate to wait until significant content is to hand before creating new sections. And if you don't have the content, the talk page is the place to request it. Is Risdon's genealogy/descent meaningful and relevant anyway? We don't add such details to every biography.

Regarding the quoteboxes - all I can say is that they're used in many FAs (1, 2 - absolutely at random) and GAs, so they're evidently looked on favourably. And far from having no context, this one illustrates two separate parts of the text - Risdon's prose and the Tiverton fire.

Are you at all persuaded? —SMALL JIM 19:00, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

I much appreciate your consultation. I don't want to get too bogged down in presentational matters. I believe in ever increasing expansion of WP articles, that they are always in a state of flux and never finished. That's not to say they should look a mess, but I don't think short paras do that, I find they assist reading, certainly the ability to consult quickly on a specific point without having to wade through a block of text. As a user I find myself consulting on specific points more often than reading whole articles, and like to navigate straight there, that's what the content box is for. There's at least three times as much to say about Risdon as is here. Yes genealogy is relevant, indeed I intend to add a picture of his coat of arms at some point and an image of the brass at St Giles, a rare piece of 17th.c. English art, which will link into other articles on monumental brasses. We haven't even given the maiden name of his mother, a basic requirement. More work is needed, but that is the nature of WP. Don't attempt to "wrap it up" or fossilise it. When Jimbo Whales says we need to economise on server space, then articles need to be restricted, but at present WP's objective is to include the entire sum of human knowledge. My annual donation to WP certainly covers more than the extra server space required for all my text and image contributions. That doesn't mean packing articles with verbiage, but does include adding facts where available. Context of the box: I missed it when I read the article, and needed to go to the file page to inform myself what it was. It's as irritating as showing an image with no caption. As for your first comment, I consider myself equally a user and editor. I don't like quote boxes which are more at home in a glossy magazine than a serious encyclopaedic article. As for section length, I think the image of the family home looks good opposite the para on Origins, surely that qualifies as of sufficient length? I'm not persuaded, but if it irks you that much go ahead and change it to the way you like it, but don't loose any content.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:49, 7 July 2012 (UTC))

Thanks for your detailed response - similarly appreciated here. You talk about your opinions: you think short paras are helpful and don't look a mess, that quote boxes don't belong in a serious article, etc. The problem, of course, is that there's a huge range of such personal opinions among our editors, and that's why we have policies and guidelines - WP couldn't work without them. In this case most other editors haven't agreed with your view, so neither does the Manual of Style, or the FA process. On that basis - consensus about article style - I will restore the longer paras and the quotebox. Thanks for that.

Incidentally, you changed the caption of the photo from "Winscott Barton, an 18th-century farmhouse on the site of Winscott in which Risdon lived" to "Winscott Barton, the farmhouse (with later 18th.c. additions) in which Risdon lived". In writing that caption, I followed the photo's file description which helpfully cited Hoskins' Devon (which says "The present farmhouse is a late 18th-cent. house.") I remember wondering whether I should add the photo at all, since it evidently isn't the same building that Risdon lived in. But do you have evidence that refutes Hoskins? —SMALL JIM 23:46, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Summary style

This is still in response to your last post. At least we agree that WP is never finished! I don't think I said anything about removing or restricting the addition of any information that's relevant to the topic. But that doesn't mean that an article can continue to expand indefinitely. We have to bear in mind summary style and what's expected of an encyclopedia article. Beyond a certain level, we don't expect a single article to provide all the information about a topic. When one aspect of a topic has been researched and expanded so much that it unbalances the entire article, it should be split off into a child article. WP:DETAIL gives a decent explanation of this principle.

This isn't really about the current Risdon article, but some of the others that you've edited - I came across Orleigh Court which demonstrates the problem nicely, I think: it's far from what I'd expect to see if I, as a general reader, came to WP for information. I reckon that all that content about the "descent of the manor" should be in a child article, with a brief summary in the main article. Much of it is only very peripherally relevant to Orleigh Court. What do you think?

By the way, you said, "...at present WP's objective is to include the entire sum of human knowledge". Sorry, no it isn't - see WP:NOT. (Though it does depend on one's personal definition of knowledge, I suppose!) —SMALL JIM 23:46, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

At Talk:Orleigh Court, I've proposed splitting your additions into a child article. Your comments would be welcome there. —SMALL JIM 12:42, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Descent of the manor is the format adopted by the Victoria County History series. Often in the cases of manor houses it is more practical to combine the history of the manor with the architecture of the existing house. There often is not enough to say about the building itself to form an article of any length, as is possibly the case with Orleigh. Often architectural features can only be properly explained by reference to previous occupants who built them, and the reader therefore needs to be familiar with the descent. To split into two separate articles seems somewhat disjointed. Subjects which become too dis-aggregated can loose the ability to give an overview. On your general point I do not agree that history of a manor is "very peripherally relevant" to an article about the house. I do however think you have spotted something of value re Winscott: Pevsner states under the heading "St Giles in the Wood": "Winscott House, a cheerless Gothic mansion of 1858-64 by W. White, has been demolished". My map shows a "Winscott Barton" presently located 1 mile E of St Giles. Clearly some clarification is required here. I would agree with you that pending this the image should perhaps be removed. There is incidentally another Winscott between Orleigh and Bideford. The source of the image needs verification. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 13:45, 9 July 2012 (UTC))

Dealing with your second point first, I agree that the Winscott photo should go, for now at least - I'll remove it and add a note to the talk page in case anyone else is interested or can contribute. I saw the mention in Pevsner, but assumed that was somewhere else because the details don't fit. An engraving of the old house would be better, of course (there's nothing in Somers Cocks that I can see), but best of all would be an illustration of Risdon himself, like the one you found of Wm. Pole.

Regarding Orleigh, could you copy your comment to Talk:Orleigh Court, please, where I'll reply. Thanks, —SMALL JIM 14:57, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Keep looking, there'll be a portrait out there somewhere, imaginary or otherwise. Failing which I find that an image of the subject's armorials make a good substitute. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 15:06, 9 July 2012 (UTC))

Ledger line

You added a new meaning at the end of January. Unfortunately, you did not add a reference. The new material really ought to be in its own article (per a split tag) and yet it can't because of the lack of reference. Therefore, I will move the new material to the talk page so that it can easily be re-instated should you find a reference in the future. Op47 (talk) 18:41, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

Noted, will endeavor to do so. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 20:36, 21 July 2012 (UTC))

Barony of Moor

Nice find! I've deleted the hoax article and indef-blocked the perpetrator. I've also redacted your addition of part of the content to Barmby Moor because (possible copyvio considerations apart) we can't be certain without careful reading that it hadn't been tampered with. —SMALL JIM 16:38, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your action. To defend him somewhat the contributor is not a "malicious" hoaxer, just someone who bought a possibly phoney "lordship of a manor" certificate (a common scam) and now wants not only to give it historical validity, but also to promote it to a "feudal barony". He therefore willfully created a false article. Not really what WP is there for! The text he lifted from British History online on the history of the village/manor is probably accurately copied, but I take your point re copyright issues. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 14:16, 30 July 2012 (UTC))

After reading his last comments I was going to give him the benefit of the doubt if he made some commitments, but I was pipped by JamesBWatson who's refused his appeal. Perhaps that's just as well... —SMALL JIM 15:42, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

I think JamesBWatson has made a well-judged decision. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 13:26, 31 July 2012 (UTC))

Cite spam??

What's with this cite spam deletion you did on House of Braose? Surely the full citation is the preferred one. Doug (at Wiki) 17:30, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I do not like what I have seen others call "cite source spam". I understand the cite source template to be for new users who are not familiar with how to cite sources, and there it has its value. I don't see the point of using it once one has become used to citing, it just clutters up the edit text. Does it add anything extra? Does not just "author, title, date, location, page no" give exactly the same visible result without all the cluttering/spam code in between? I think I also deleted the ISBN, useless unless buying new books, librarians don't need it when ordering old books, should a reader wish to consult the source quoted. Thanks for helping me out with this article.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 17:58, 17 August 2012 (UTC))

OK. The cite templates are usually used to ensure a consistent approach. But since the other references given don't use it I don't think it matters much here. On the articles I have taken to GA status all the citations use templates. Doug (at Wiki) 18:17, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps just a matter of personal preference. I can't see the point of them. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 20:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC))

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Hello, Lobsterthermidor. You have new messages at Talk:Barnstaple.
Message added —SMALL JIM 12:02, 19 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Licences to crenellate

I noticed you've started an article on licences to crenellate, which to be fair is filling a gap in the encyclopedia. However, it is only fair to tell you that I'm effectively going to ditch what you've written as it is riddled with problems. First and foremost are issues relating to referencing. The author of the article you have been using was written by Philip Davis and published in The Castle Studies Group Journal. There is a significant difference between that and the group carrying out the research themselves. Then there is the issue of attribution. Despite the fact you added the information and clearly had the article to hand, it is not properly referenced. There are statements and paragraphs which do not have a footnote to explain the information has come from Davis' article, making it useless to a reader. Ensuring every statement is impeccably sourced should be standard practice for Misplaced Pages, and while there are a host of articles which fall hopelessly short of this standard there's no excuse for newly added information. On top of that, your reading of the article is somewhat ham-fisted. I made some corrections to the battlement article which you did not bother to copy across, thereby reintroducing errors. For instance you wrote "Pardons could be obtained for unlicenced constructions, termed "adulterine" whereas what Davis said was "In particular it is important to understand that the so called 'adulterine' castles of the Anarchy of Stephen were not 'unlicenced', as sometimes stated". Nev1 (talk) 17:04, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

OK, its a new article, few WP articles are created perfect. I do my best. I was aware that I had omitted to carry accross some of your edits, nothing of truly vital import, but that is in the pipeline. If you can help improve it that will be very welcome. The problems you seem to have identified are:

Attribution should be to "Philip Davis and published in The Castle Studies Group Journal", I thought I had picked up that edit of yours into the new article. If not can it not simply be inserted? What's the problem?
"There are statements and paragraphs which do not have a footnote to explain the information has come from Davis' article, making it useless to a reader".

Why not simply state at top of the list: "All sourced from Davis unless stated to the contrary"? It is a great exaggeration to say the info's useless because of this minor matter of clarifying the source. There's certainly a way round that. If you are also refering to the main bodies of text, then I can improve the referencing as you suggest.

I can't see how this justifies your proposal to "ditch" the article. I should add that on the matter of pardons, you deleted the whole sentence instead of retaining what was OK, i.e. that a mechanism for obtaining pardons existed, an important point to make. I will make the above 3 amendments and you can let me know what you think. I'm glad you agree with me that this is "filling a much gap" (sic). It's a shame you previously deleted the whole thing with no reason given. You could have demerged the text yourself, or asked me to do it. Perhaps now you can work on it a bit more constructively. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 17:43, 19 August 2012 (UTC))

The real shame is that you didn't read that battlement talk page to see the reasons for deleting the list there, and why it is not appropriate at the new article. In short I am in the process of tearing out what you wrote because it was not good enough and simply easier to start afresh. I cannot emphasise enough the importance of adequate sourcing in Misplaced Pages articles, and making sure they are properly represented. Nev1 (talk) 18:01, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Lobsterthermidor, when adding references, do you think you could include the pages where you found the information? Thanks, Nev1 (talk) 18:49, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

I will endeavour as hard as I am able to meet your standards of perfection, but am only a mere mortal. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 18:54, 19 August 2012 (UTC))

Ta, and it would be just great if you could use footnote references at Barons' Letter, 1301 so readers can see what information has come from where. Nev1 (talk) 18:56, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

So far as I remember its all from Willoughby de Broke, but again I will try to oblige you there as well. Now you're not going to "ditch" that article too are you?(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:01, 19 August 2012 (UTC))

My main concern right now is making sure Misplaced Pages has a decent article on licences to crenellate. Nev1 (talk) 19:07, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps you might condescend so much as to offer me some little credit for my own pathetic offering? (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:10, 19 August 2012 (UTC))

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Speedy deletion nomination of List of licences to crenellate

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Speedy deletion nomination of Bradfield, Uffculme

Hello Lobsterthermidor,

I wanted to let you know that I just tagged Bradfield, Uffculme for deletion, because it seems to be inappropriate for a variety of reasons.

If you feel that the article shouldn't be deleted and want more time to work on it, you can contest this deletion, but please don't remove the speedy deletion tag from the top.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. Thanks, Welcome to HorrorLand, where nightmares come to life! 14:13, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Ignore, request is poss. vandalism. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 23:12, 30 September 2012 (UTC))

DYK for Peter Rouw

On 30 September 2012, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Peter Rouw, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that at the Royal Academy School, Peter Rouw trained Samuel Joseph, who is known for creating a statue of William Wilberforce? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Peter Rouw. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

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improvements to an entry

Lobsterthermidor could you kindly help expand the content of this article, Palmes family? Cheers (Yahoo12445678 (talk) 21:22, 7 October 2012 (UTC)).

Never heard of them. It seems to be something that interests you, so you should make it your own project. That's how WP works. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 21:38, 7 October 2012 (UTC))

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Arlington

Regarding your expansion: You might be interested in this if you look at the bottom of the page there are a couple of other versions. I never could decide which was the most illustrative. I drew it when I was planning to re-write the page to FA standard, but never got aownd to writing it. If you want to use let me knowm and I will key it up with the room names etc. Giano (talk) 08:27, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Would be a very useful addition, I think the current version is best. Do go ahead with room names etc., & add the image to the article if you wish, seems a shame to waste your work. More text is clearly needed on architecture & description etc. Also needed is a really good lead photo, good angle with good light, like this. May have to wait till next spring/summer. Am working further on the Chichester family at present, so more contribs to follow from me.(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:32, 4 December 2012 (UTC))

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Sydenham House, Devon

Hi there Lobsterthermidor. Thanks for your nice note. Cheers, --Rosiestep (talk) 16:36, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

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~E : 74.60.29.141 (talk) 18:31, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

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Thanks

Hi Lobsterthermidor, I was on my new-pages-patrol rounds and came upon Raleigh, Pilton; just a quick thankyou for presenting a well-rounded new article, makes a nice change from the vast quantity of deletion-ready stuff that usually fills the new pages report. Baldy Bill (sharpen the razor|see my reflection) 22:46, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:24, 9 February 2013 (UTC))

William Willoughby, 5th Baron Willoughby de Eresby

Hi Lobsterthermidor,

I left a message for you at the Talk page for the above-referenced article. Best, NinaGreen (talk) 22:11, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

May 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Sir John Northcote, 1st Baronet may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page. Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 13:26, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Lobsterthermidor. You have new messages at A930913's talk page.
Message added 15:49, 9 May 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Berry Pomeroy may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 ""s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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(whose 1st wife had been his sister Johanna de Pomeroy) and John Bampfield of ]]],<ref>Vivian, p.38, pedigree of Bampfield</ref> The marriage was without progeny. His heir was his

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 21:14, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Forde, Wolborough

Hello, Lobsterthermidor, and thank you for your contributions!

An article you worked on Forde, Wolborough, appears to be directly copied from http://www.ghostcallers-uk.com/fordehouse.html. Please take a minute to make sure that the text is freely licensed and properly attributed as a reference, otherwise the article may be deleted.

It's entirely possible that this bot made a mistake, so please feel free to remove this notice and the tag it placed on Forde, Wolborough if necessary.Template:Z120 MadmanBot (talk) 22:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Not my offence, I merely pasted existing WP text from within article Newton Abbot to form new article. On further investigation, your supposition appears erroneous. See talk page. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 10:10, 14 May 2013 (UTC))

Cornish heraldry

Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. It appears that you tried to give Cornish heraldry a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into another page with a different name. This is known as a "cut and paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Misplaced Pages has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page. This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Misplaced Pages:Cut and paste move repair holding pen. Thank you. Gtwfan52 (talk) 07:16, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

That very confusing template was generated when I nominated your recent cut and paste move for deletion so it can be moved properly. As the template states, it is important to preserve the page history for copyright purposes. Your article creation will be deleted and the sandbox article will be moved to mainspace in its place.

Thank you for finding it! Someone put in a ton of work only to abandon it. Thanks for finding it and rescuing it! Gtwfan52 (talk) 07:23, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your input, good to know that you agree with my action. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 07:49, 28 May 2013 (UTC))

an admin deleted your creation of the above article and I moved the sandbox one over. That was a great find. I gave it a C rating, which I think is the highest I have ever rated a newly created article. Thanks again. Gtwfan52 (talk) 08:33, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks. All the credit must go to User:Bodrugan, whose article it was. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:11, 28 May 2013 (UTC))

Nice work! NB: there're two non-free images in the Motto's section, which are still limited as ":File"s, that probably need to be activated as full images now its out of a sandbox. Hchc2009 (talk) 16:32, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, noted, will deal with as part of on-going copy edit. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 16:43, 28 May 2013 (UTC))

June 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to John Rolle, 1st Baron Rolle may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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] of the ancient barony,<ref>Purchased from Sir John Fortescue (White's White's Devonshire Directory of 1850</ref> effectively abolished by the [[Tenures Abolition

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Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to John Rolle, 1st Baron Rolle may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 ""s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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] of the ancient barony,<ref>Purchased from Sir John Fortescue (White's White's Devonshire Directory of 1850</ref> effectively abolished by the [[Tenures Abolition of five Devonshire families, Colby, Coplestone, Reynolds, Palmer and Johnson, Exeter, 1884</ref>

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Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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1792 was Robert George William Trefusis, later 17th Baron Clinton (Debrett's Peerage, 1968, p.265)(son of Robert Cotton Trefusis (d.1778)</ref> who

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 19:11, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Descents

Great work, but please stop overloading articles on villages – which should approximate to the format specified in WP:UKVILLAGES – with excessive details of manorial descents. Please create separate articles, as I have done for Manor of Berry Pomeroy, Manor of North Molton and now Manor of King's Nympton. Thanks, —SMALL JIM 21:21, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

And Manor of Combe Martin. —SMALL JIM 23:00, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Please see on your talk page my invitation to you to join the discussion "Manorial histories" of today's date on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 10:50, 12 June 2013 (UTC))

Thanks. I have replied there: not very favourably, as you probably expected. Incidentally - and I do say this with the best intentions - it may help garner more responses if you were to reformat your posting there with a few paragraphs. See WP:TLDR. —SMALL JIM 16:37, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

commons:File:Portobello3.jpg

At commons:File:Portobello3.jpg you were listed as the uploader and the file description page states that you would be also the author. Now, a complaint via OTRS was issued and it looks like Michael Turner would be the author of this file. Can you clarify the situation please? Thank you. -- Rillke (talk) 18:57, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

My error, a regrettable oversight on my part. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 11:15, 20 June 2013 (UTC))

Original research

Although you haven't commented this time, I have no doubt you're aware that I've been "following you around" again, this time removing examples of original research from the articles you've edited.(*) I'm sorry it has taken me so long to become fully aware that this is a problem with your contributions and to take action – it's partly because of a reluctance to do the research necessary to show beyond reasonable doubt that a certain passage is indeed OR, a task made more difficult by the abstruse nature of many of the topics.

However, I am now as sure as I can be that the addition of original research has been a regular feature in your editing, and you need to ensure that this doesn't continue. Don't look upon this as an "official warning" or anything like that – I'm sure you acted unknowingly since it's apparent that you're not very interested in reading up on our policies etc. (which is OK – up to a point), and there's no doubt that your intent here is good, and that you have added a great deal of value to the encyclopedia. But you do now need to take more care that your contributions are made in accordance with our policies and guidelines.

I'm going to continue to work back through some of your contributions and remove the parts that seem to violate our policies. I hope you'll follow me and check my edits (if you were to precede me, that would be even more helpful – no-one can know better than you when you added something that wasn't already published!) I will, of course, be happy to discuss any individual changes. Oh, and if you strongly disagree with all of this, there are a number of ways of getting someone else to look at the situation – Misplaced Pages:Third opinion describes the most lightweight of these, though it lists the other available alternatives too. Best, —SMALL JIM 15:02, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

(*) See, for example, some of my recent edits to Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe; Petrockstowe; Huish, Devon; Beam, Great Torrington; Denys family and Molland (apologies if any of that wasn't actually added by you).

Thanks for your work on the above pages. There's some further stuff for you to sort out at Molland#Molland lily; Talk:Manor of Molland; Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe#Descent of the manor and Margaret Rolle, 15th Baroness Clinton. Thanks, —SMALL JIM 10:40, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

John Giffard (1602-1665)

Thanks so much for the article about John Giffard (1602-1665). I've made some edits - and have some comments for a few additional things to resolve for the article on the Talk:John Giffard (1602-1665) page.

Please let me know if there's anything I can do.--CaroleHenson (talk) 02:13, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Interested in some pointers?

Hi,

You've brought a number of great articles to Misplaced Pages! I've done some editing and research, lately on Monkleigh and Annery, Monkleigh, but there are really only a couple of issues. There are also some tools that make creating citations so much easier. I am hoping you're going to continue to bring interesting articles to WP! I wondered if you'd be interested in a couple of tips to make things easier and better fit the guidelines. If so, I am watching this page and will see any updates here.--CaroleHenson (talk) 01:09, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Lobsterthermidor. You have new messages at Talk:Abbots Bickington.
Message added 02:51, 25 June 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I want to check out a couple more articles and found this article where there was a large amount of uncited info added to a pretty clean article. So, I moved it to the talk page to resolve: 1) what is uncited, 2) what is not notable and 3) what belongs in the main articles about a person. If there are some people that you've been adding information about in multiple articles, that's a good indicator that there may need to be articles about that person or people. Here to help, but also wanting to protect work by people that follow the guidelines. CaroleHenson (talk) 02:51, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Rare survivals

Hi! I've noted CaroleHenson's recent cleanup of some of your work, including Abbots Bickington. It prompted me to read again through your posts at WT:UKCITIES#Manorial histories, where you raised the issue of appropriate content in articles on villages, and in your second long post there I came across this:

On the issue of biog details of seemingly unimportant people: about these people, often lords of manors, literally one thing alone will be known about them other than their date of death. It may be something apparently trivial like date of matriculation at Oxford, but that's all that has survived in the records from 400 years ago. That makes it valuable. Hence its inclusion. It hasn't been selected as pertinent, but simply because it's a rare survival of something at least.

This strongly suggests that you are looking at Misplaced Pages as a place to store these rare survivals of ancient information. Whilst this is a worthy objective, it isn't part of Wikpedia's remit, so you may, as I recall CaroleHenson suggested to you recently, be better off setting up your own website for this purpose where you can work without our restrictions. —SMALL JIM 10:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm very happy to work with WP restrictions, I think we're feeling our way as to just what they are in this area, following the recent discussion re Manorial Histories. I don't recall Carole having made that point to me. I'm very happy with your latest edits to Heanton Satchville, Petrockstowe - not quite so happy with Carole's rewrite of Abbots Bickington, but I'll make my points on that one there. (Lobsterthermidor (talk) 19:19, 25 June 2013 (UTC))

Civility

Regarding this edit to CaroleHenson's talk page, please read Misplaced Pages:Civility and ensure you abide by it. Thanks. —SMALL JIM 23:06, 25 June 2013 (UTC)