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== Vandalism of ] related articles ==

It seems nobody is watching Jainism related articles and ] AKA ] AKA ] is getting away with vandalism and ]. He has removed massive sourced contents, cats, infoboxes, templates, wikitables etc from dozens of articles. Instead of tagging contents with cn or refimprove he has removed massive contents from the articles. He also keep redirecting, moving, AFDing articles, merging contents at whims. Earlier I had reported him only related ] but now I am trying to report his whole history on ANI . ] (]) 20:35, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

:Hmmm.... Will keep a watch on all his edits henceforth - ] (]) 23:42, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
::Thanks. But it seems massive contents are lost. ] (]) 15:35, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
:::Nothing is "lost" since anyone can easily go into the page History and either revert to the version prior to the vandalism edits, or can copy-paste useful content from earlier versions if it's buried too far back. If you're concerned about lost content, use the "Contributions" button to see the edits of those accounts, and check the History tabs of them to see if there are any large deletions or inappropriate additions that have not yet been corrected. ] (]) 17:07, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
::::I've been monitoring ] edits, and they all appear to be constructive. The edit summaries note content was removed due to copyright violation, and when I did a simple Google search, that appears to be the case. Can't speak for all the edits but I checked out about 5 or so of them. Not sure if I'd call this gaming the system. — ] ] 19:35, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
::::What do you mean by "The edit summaries note content was removed due to copyright violation"? Are you referring today's edits? Well, he could have re-worded content or could have searched new sources but he tagged them for copyvio and admin deleted 18 articles of Jainism founders. Admin restored them. If you see such edits constructive, well, what can I say. ] (]) 20:17, 25 June 2013 (UTC)


== Centralized Monitoring System - Indian surveillance programme == == Centralized Monitoring System - Indian surveillance programme ==
Line 39: Line 29:
] (]) 20:24, 24 June 2013 (UTC) ] (]) 20:24, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
* It's now available in Hindi and Tamil ] (]) 14:00, 4 July 2013 (UTC) * It's now available in Hindi and Tamil ] (]) 14:00, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

== Bangladesh: 2013 Shahbag protests ==

A number of editors have pointed to persistent bias at the article ]. I made some edits in the spirit of WP:Bold to remove the Awami League party bias from the article and I also self reverted. You can find the copy that has been continually charged with bias in mainspace, while you can see my edit diff here and a discussion I started at ]. Your comments to improve this article would be appreciated by editors on all sides of the issue. I know this is not about India, but I'm posting this on several related boards. Respectfully and in the spirit of WP:Bold, ] (]) 21:41, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

== No Need To Call People By Just Their Surname ==

How should wikipedia refer to people from India? Should they be referred to by just their surname after the full name is established? This is what seems to be the practice for people from some other countries, at last for the wikipage of the person in question. Should there be an international consistency in this - at least in english? (Maybe we can avoid talking about whether Indian english should be acceptable, since we are only talking about how to refer to the name of a person.)
<br>
We can begin with the quote by Emerson: “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do."
However the problem of what names to use for people in India is not just a matter of consistency. It is also a matter of deciding whether to conform to the hegemonic powers who would like to define what the whole world says.
<br>
The problem is this:
<br>
Certain names of people in India are not suitable to being shortened by using only the surname (sometimes it is also difficult to define what is the surname). Therefore the usual practice in scholarly articles and books is to use a name that is culturally appropriate - which may be two full names, initials and another name, or to use just the first name, or just the last name, or just the initials.
<br>
It will not be appropriate to make a rule and demand that it be followed in all cases because the usage depends on the name and where the person is from (e.g. which part of India).
<br>
Therefore, I propose that there should NOT be a wiki policy on how to refer to a person or whether to use just the last name, or just the first name, or just the initials and the last name, or just the initials, or whatever. These things should be decided on a case-to-case basis, using the usual conventions in accepted references.
<br>
For example, take the case of the famous Bhagat Singh.
There is a convention that the name Singh is used by all men who are Sikh. Therefore the surname or last name by itself (if we can call Singh the surname or last name) is not used to refer to a person because it does not specify which person is being referred to. Even if it is obvious due to the context, this convention is not used. It is not conventional in everyday speech or in scholarly articles to say "Then Singh went to the school..." The convention is to say, "Then Bhagat Singh went to the school..."
<br>
In other words, the shortest way to refer to Bhagat Singh is to refer to "Bhagat Singh", not just "Singh". This convention is followed in all the scholarly articles and books in which Bhagat Singh is discussed (I have listed some of them on the Bhagat Singh talk page). The only place where I have seen this custom being violated is in some recent english newspaper articles, where the editor seems to be bending backwards to employ a ridiculous western rule to an inappropriate situation - or maybe the editor checked in wikipedia and unthinkingly followed suit.
<br>
I say, use the usual local, appropriate convention for each person, deciding on a case to case basis. We should not try to make or follow a rule for this.] (]) 18:00, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
* I'll prefer to follow the original Misplaced Pages policy: ] --<span style="background:orange;border:orange ridge">]</span><span style="color:blue;background:white;otit;border-bottom-style:ridge;">☸</span><span style="background:#57C738;border:green ridge">]</span> 18:05, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
: Why? And what is the original wikipedia policy? The wikipedia policy accepts country-specific usage, which is what this is.] (]) 18:38, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
:::I don't see the problem you're trying to solve. Are you suggesting that we start using first names for Indian's? Is this a widespread issue on Indian pages. What's wrong with using Singh when referring to the Prime Minister in the text (isn't it better than using Manmohan)? Using last names is a fairly normal convention in formal English writing (not just on Misplaced Pages) and you're going to have to think of a good reason to break with English language conventions on an English language encyclopedia. (Obviously, if there is a strong reason not to use the last name, then that would be acceptable. But do we need a specific guideline for something like that?)--] <small>(])</small> 20:30, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
::::There is the policy ], which does dictate that people be titled as the name they are commonly referred to. Our famous default example being that the singer ''Madonna Louise Ciccone'' has an article entitled ] and is referred to as ''Madonna'' throughout the article rather than ''Ciccone'' because that is the stage name by which she is known. If someone is ''generally'' known in media/academia by a name other than their surname, I could see that being used if the precedent is clearly established. ] (]) 21:12, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::COMMONNAME applies only to article titles; that the Madonna article sticks with it throughout is ], I guess. I've never seen ] before and will have to read up on that. - ] (]) 21:36, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
:::::* Exactly, if we have to discuss two or more people with same surname, then we can mention first name to disambiguate. I have done it many times. My latest example might be ], where her husband is ]. No reason to write our own rule. WikiPolicy is fine here. --<span style="background:orange;border:orange ridge">]</span><span style="color:blue;background:white;otit;border-bottom-style:ridge;">☸</span><span style="background:#57C738;border:green ridge">]</span> 22:13, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
::::::* I've just reverted to ] by Khaydock. That was a gross, ]y usurpation of the concept of consensus, sorry. - ] (]) 22:22, 25 June 2013 (UTC)


== Jainism articles: Serious problem == == Jainism articles: Serious problem ==

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Centralized Monitoring System - Indian surveillance programme

Anyone interested in beefing up Centralized Monitoring System? I found that a writer in The Hindu compared it to PRISM. It might be something that will come up in Indian politics.

I also made a request for a Hindi version of this article. Any editors who want to write articles about this in regional languages are welcome to do so. WhisperToMe (talk) 20:24, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Jainism articles: Serious problem

There are 24 Tirthankars or founders of Jainism. User:The Rahul Jain just managed to delete and wipe out almost all of them from wikipedia. But wisdom dawned on admin User:INeverCry and he restored all of them. Some copy-vio text was/is in articles and instead of re-wording he tagged them for speedy deletion. I have already complained so many times that the user keep removing contents, infoboxes, cats, templates, moving-redirecting pages. I seldom see him adding contents. I reported him on ANI 3 times but all admins remain silent. Only admin User:Qwyrxian took lead in looking in matter. And Qwyrxian blamed me on his talkpage! Perhaps user was encouraged by comforting words of admin and today he went in full swing. Woo-hoo! He managed to wipe out almost entire rank of Jainism founders. neo (talk) 19:04, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

I only have time to make a very brief comment here. I assume you're referring to edits like this one? Not only is that edit correct, it's actually mandatory. The information was copied, word for word, from the source. That's a copyright violation--always against our rules, and usually illegal. Reinserting copyrighted material can result in your account being blocked, Neo. Now, if you want to re-add the info, it would need to be re-written entirely. However, I'm fairly certain that said book isn't even a reliable source anyway, though I'd have to examine it to be sure. But no matter, what, copying directly from another source is absolutely forbidden, unless that source is in the public domain or CC-BY-SA licensed (and, even then, you need to explicitly state that the info is copied, using a special template). Qwyrxian (talk) 12:23, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
I am referring to edits like this. We don't tag articles for speedy deletion if we detect that some copy-vio text is included in article few years ago. We remove that text and rewrite if possible. But we don't delete articles of notable subject. TRJ had tagged 18 articles for deletion and they were deleted. To avoid another deletion by some admin I simply reverted his edits. Do you support deleting articles of notable subject because of some copyvio text in the article? If that's policy, pls give me link. neo (talk) 08:56, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
I absolutely do. Copyright violations MUST be removed for legal reasons. If a stub is possible, then that is, of course, a better alternative, but getting the copyvio off the site is the first, most important task. Qwyrxian (talk) 09:55, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
If you "absolutely do" support deletion of articles because 'some' copyvio material was inserted at some time, then being a admin you should delete those articles first and then talk to me later. This speedy deletion criteria states that if non-infringing material is on page that is worth saving then page should not be deleted. I am seeing that after removing copyvio text, articles like Shantinath, Aranath, Nami Natha have at least 1 ref. Current policy does not support your assertion that what TRJ did was right. If I am wrong, I request other users to correct me. neo (talk) 11:16, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Rituparno Ghosh

Can someone keep an eye on this article Rituparno Ghosh for addition of unsourced information? --Tito☸Dutta 20:06, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

India Project Collaboration of the Month dead?

Is the INCOTM dead? No-one seems to be suggesting anything for the July collaboration. - Sitush (talk) 14:58, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Seriously, that was a lot of nominations by present standards! Let's go with Ladakh if its up above! AshLin (talk) 17:13, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
Sorry, that will teach me. The page is watchlisted (turquoise blue star is there) but for some reason has not appeared on my watchlist. I should have checked the link directly. I'll take a decent look at it in a few hours, after I've recovered from my puzzlement and embarrassment! - Sitush (talk) 17:38, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
It seems that Tito did some fancy footwork with organisation of the INCOTM nomination page and tripped me up. Anyway, I've now got back on my feet and see that Ladakh has the most support. I wasn't aware that this process was basically a straight vote but that it how it is and so I've updated a couple of pages to indicate that this article is our Collaboration of the Month for July. Thanks to all who gave suggestions and indicated preferences - now let's collaborate! - Sitush (talk) 21:08, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Recent major caste cleanups

I've been tackling a few more caste-cleanup articles as of late. If anyone is interested in the struggle thereof, wants to help refine a few of these or spot-check for accuracy, or watchlist them, your support is always appreciated. Here are a few I've worked on in the last week, often near-total rewrites:

Again, my intent is not to "denigrate" groups by noting that their lofty origin stories are not credited by anyone but themselves. My intent is instead to show the complexity of these social situations, and their variations over time. And also to prevent the very frequent use of Misplaced Pages as a caste-advancement tool to "re-write" caste history for political and social advantage. MatthewVanitas (talk) 21:48, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Vishwabrahmin has been a problem for years and spikes are common. You may not have noticed that it has existed under various names/POV forks etc. Right now, it is way longer than it would be if it were policy-compliant and it incorporates a lot of the stuff that was removed from other versions. I think that Chettiar might have had a few iterations also. I've had both of these articles watchlisted under prior names but missed the redirects. - Sitush (talk) 21:56, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Overcat in a template

Pallava dynasty in categorised in both Category:Former monarchies of Asia and Category:Former countries in Asia. The monarchies category is a subcategory of the countries one, so we do not need both. Problem is, I can't spot where these two categories are being added to the article - it must be via one of the three templates on the page but I'm useless at template markup and cannot work out which is causing the issue. If someone can, please could they remove Category:Former countries in Asia from it. I realise that this will affect a host of other articles also but an overcat is an overcat on any article. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 05:13, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Template:Infobox former country is the root cause, but is fully protected, so can't edit. --Redtigerxyz 06:14, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Maybe you can leave the |continent=Asia field empty. It will remove the category. But maybe it will add another general category. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 06:24, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, both. I've queried it at the template talk page using a link to this discussion. - Sitush (talk) 06:25, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
Interesting choice of terminology - technically, kingdoms are not countries so the infobox should be "former kingdom" rather than "former country". --regentspark (comment) 11:43, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
I wondered about that, too. I could resolve the immediate problem by changing the infobox but the template would still seem to need some sort of work. - Sitush (talk) 13:29, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Jainism: Peer review

Hello, I have listed the article Jainism for peer review. It is one of the ancient Indian religions. The peer review is at Misplaced Pages:Peer_review/Jainism/archive4. Please do participate in the discussion. Thanks, Rahul Jain (talk) 17:19, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Finding original source for these Madiga caste images?

As so often is the case, I'm finding some good vintage photos of an Indian caste, but the only versions online are unattributed/uncited, and/or have an ugly watermark stamped on them by some person who's done no actual work other than simply scan an old book but still asserts some authority over an item.

In any case, Madiga could really use some images, do any of the images in this link look familiar to anyone, can you guess what book I might seek out that would contain these photos: http://mahadiga-channal.babelred.com/?counter=45 ? MatthewVanitas (talk) 20:23, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Policy regarding article names of Indic origin

This policy makes it clear that name used in more than 75% wider usage of english should be used. But this link is not given in WP:ENGLISH and WP:COMMONNAME. Users like User:The Rahul Jain and User:Ruud Koot misinterpret it as "scientific name used ony in reliable sources" and ignore the words common, wider usage or popular. Please see this Rfc and this discussion. In future someone may insert reliable sources in article Rama which write 'Rama' as 'Rāma' and will move article to IAST name. So policy regarding articles names of Indic origin should be made absolutely clear. neo (talk) 07:21, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

Try to avoid IAST, if only because it makes it difficult for people with standard English-language keyboards to search an article for recurrence of a word or term. I made the mistake in one of my creations - Lohara dynasty - and I regret it. - Sitush (talk) 10:04, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
Every time I have to copy-paste these IAST alphabets. I think most of the wikipedia readers don't know how to type or pronounce IAST alphabets like ñāīśṇūṃēṣ. Sometime I just see boxes. Assuming that ALL english wikipedia readers have learned IAST language and ALL readers have right browsers to display IAST characters is wrong. BTW, perhaps you didn't notice, it is 'Mokṣa', not 'Moksa' and as I found more results for 'Moksha', so I proposed to change name to 'Moksha'. I think policy is already clear. We just need to include link in WP:ENGLISH. Otherwise users will keep moving pages to IAST spellings. neo (talk) 07:15, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

User:Haripriya63

Does anyone know ways to contact User:Haripriya63? --Tito☸Dutta 00:59, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Chanakya and Chandragupta Maurya public domain images

Chanakya and Chandragupta Maurya are among most important figures in Indian history. It is shame that even after 2000 years after their death we don't have their public domain images for articles. Users keep uploading non-free images and they gets deleted. One user pointed out here that there should be public domain image on net. I did some hard search and found 1915 image of Chanakya here and here. As it is published before 1953, it is in public domain. I request users to verify this, especially to expert User:Dharmadhyaksha. But please make sure that we get public domain images of Chanakya and Chandragupta. They are among most important figures in Indian history. Thanks! neo (talk) 07:41, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

As per Public domain in the United States, works published before 1923 are in public domain in US. Commons have for work published outside US before 1923. So I think it is in public domain in US too. So far actual looks are concerned, it is impossible. We just give general idea of looks of historic figures. For example, Rama's looks varies in different pics but he is depicted with bow-arrow, dhoti, clean-shaved face, rather medium built body etc. So we can just give general idea of Chanakya's and Chandragupta's looks which are consistent with their biography and Indian culture. neo (talk) 09:19, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
That image is a graphic design work. Does not seem to be the cover of original work. --Tito☸Dutta 09:27, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
You mean derivative of original work? If we doubt that publisher has plagarized work of someone else, then we can doubt EVERY WORK without any basis. neo (talk) 10:21, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
I think User:Titodutta said that the picture on the website may not be the cover of the original book. Not necessary it is plagarism. The Legend of Zorro 10:41, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
hmm... Titodutta is right. this looks original cover of book of R. Shamasastry. this is bit high res image. And this is same image. If that sitting person is Chandragupta and that person with flag is Kautilya/Chanakya, then we got 2-in-1. Ek teer mein do shikar. neo (talk) 11:13, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Titodutta for uploading Chanakya image. Hope that problem is solved forever. Also pls upload above image. It can be used at least for R. Shamasastry. The whole book is in worldwide public domain as per wikisource. So no copyright problem. My browser is giving me trouble, so I can't upload image. neo (talk) 17:11, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Neo, that img can't be used. The site says book is CC BY-NC-ND 3.0 . "noncommercial" clause is not compatible with wikicommons/wikipedia. Redtigerxyz 17:24, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Sub section

(due to edit box limit) @Redtigerxyz I think government laws supersedes what that site or anyone claims. Still I will ask question at WP:CQ to clear doubts. neo (talk) 17:39, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

No doubt the text is public domain, but not the reprint edition. Book cover is part of new packaging (reprint) so the author of reprint is the author of the image. archive.org book does not say that it is copy of the 1915 first edition. Redtigerxyz 17:46, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
I asked in WP:CQ. If someone modify public domain work then the 'modification' has copyrights of new author. Not sure whether the image is original or from reprint edition. But thanks to Dharmadhyaksha for finding free image of Chandragupta. We got free images of both Chanakya and Chandragupta. And thanks to you, Redtigerxyz, for indirectly forcing me to find free images. :) neo (talk) 15:42, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Template/ Navbox distortion

 Done §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 15:10, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Possible vandalism at Bhaag Milkha Bhaag article

I suspect possible vandalism there. User Wraithful has said that "I see this problem across the site on articles pertaining to Indian topics - unwarranted glorification or promotional tone.". Experienced editors may help here. I request them to give their comments. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 16:48, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

For some reason, Abhijeet Safai asked me about this on my talk page - this is my reply:
I'm not sure why you are asking me about this - but I'd start by reading WP:VANDAL. This is a content dispute, and making accusations of vandalism is entirely inappropriate. Looking at the material removed, I'm inclined to agree with Wraithful that it is inappropriate trivia for an unreleased film, and I'm not even sure that an article on the film can be justified at all under Misplaced Pages:Notability (films) guidelines. I suggest that rather than arguing over minor details, you look for evidence from third-party reliable sources that the film is of any significance. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:31, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

File:Babri rearview.jpg

Has been deleted, anyone here got a photo of the Babri Mosque either before or after demolition? Darkness Shines (talk) 19:42, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Deleted? Admin thought that it can be created? ah? What was the reason? BTW, today I noticed that Rahul Gandhi image is also deleted. Felt very sad. Really. neo (talk) 19:54, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Free India media resources

To search free images related to India, you can use WP:INDFREE. Free images of Rahul Gandhi, Chanakya etc are available there. And you can help to expand the resources page too. --Tito☸Dutta 22:56, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

FilmiTadka.in should also be there. But it has very few images compared to BollywoodHungama. Sometime images of cricketers, politicians etc also prop up on BH if bollywood celebrity has attended that event. I have searched images for EVERY actress in 'Hindi film actresses' category (at that time 432 actresses). If you can't find image in some article of actress, it is because no image was on BH. There is no problem of free images for bollywood articles. But very difficult to find free images for other articles. neo (talk) 05:45, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

WP:INDICSCRIPT

This is being challenged at Talk:Birbhum district#Including Bengali script in the lead. Any interested parties are invited to contribute. noq (talk) 07:00, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

New article: Mettukulam

Please feel free to improve Mettukulam. Thanks! Northamerica1000 08:21, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Merge proposal at Talk:Keshav Dev Temple

More opinions are welcome. ComfyKem (talk) 20:32, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

2002 Gujarat violence

Article 2002 Gujarat violence is written by wikipedia community over 10 years and user:Darkness Shines calls it Shite. He has created his own version of article here in user space and slowly replacing whole article with his own POV version. Articles on similar incidents of violence like September 11 attacks use media sources. But user is removing reputed media sources and has picked up so-called 'academic sources' to support his POV. The article needs to be corrected to show right facts with NPOV. Thanks. neo (talk) 09:50, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

A stitch in time would have saved nine. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 13:38, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
DS inserted his POV in article, I removed it but this The Rahul Jain dropped in out of blue just to oppose me and inserted again POV of DS. Now the article is protected with massive POV of DS. I have requested RegentsPark to restore earlier NPOV version and then protect article. neo (talk) 15:28, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

New article: Central mahallu jama'ath

Central mahallu jama'ath would benefit from more sources and copy editing. Northamerica1000 02:43, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

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