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Revision as of 08:49, 18 July 2013 editFuture Perfect at Sunrise (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators87,181 edits →Delicious carbuncle: closing, already escalated to Arbcom← Previous edit Revision as of 19:17, 18 July 2013 edit undoAgadaUrbanit (talk | contribs)Pending changes reviewers8,961 edits →Arbitration enforcement action appeal by AgadaUrbanit: new sectionNext edit →
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No violation has taken place by me. The above user has turned a problem over copyright military badges into a ]. He is trying to use his position to violate Troubles sanctions (and has done) despite a warning from Calil. I have followed Calil's advice and waited several hours after the 24 hour deadline for 1 RR before posting the new image which does not breach any guidelines. Furthermore I have sought advice at MILHIST and elsewhere. I believe the issue is that Werieth doesn't understand the significance of using military insignia in military info boxes. Calil has said as much. I am also very firmly of the opinion that Weieth has opened this complaint frivolously because I threatened to open one about him if he carried on editwarring in breach of 1RR at ] and related articles. (see his talk page ] (]). ] (]) 17:37, 17 July 2013 (UTC) No violation has taken place by me. The above user has turned a problem over copyright military badges into a ]. He is trying to use his position to violate Troubles sanctions (and has done) despite a warning from Calil. I have followed Calil's advice and waited several hours after the 24 hour deadline for 1 RR before posting the new image which does not breach any guidelines. Furthermore I have sought advice at MILHIST and elsewhere. I believe the issue is that Werieth doesn't understand the significance of using military insignia in military info boxes. Calil has said as much. I am also very firmly of the opinion that Weieth has opened this complaint frivolously because I threatened to open one about him if he carried on editwarring in breach of 1RR at ] and related articles. (see his talk page ] (]). ] (]) 17:37, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
{{hab}} {{hab}}

== Arbitration enforcement action appeal by AgadaUrbanit ==

; Appealing user : {{userlinks|AgadaUrbanit}}

; Sanction being appealed:
https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FEnforcement&diff=502419675&oldid=502419285

; Administrator imposing the sanction : ].

; Notification of that administrator :


===Statement by AgadaUrbanit===

It has been a year since my AE ban. I did my best to contribute to Misplaced Pages and respect ban restriction. Considering the length of the ban and I am requesting a lifting of my ban. Thank you.

===Discussion===

===Result of appeal by AgadaUrbanit===

Revision as of 19:17, 18 July 2013

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    MarshalN20

    No action, but MarshalN20 is warned that future actions that skirt the boundaries of their topic ban may result in sanctions.  Sandstein  21:42, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning MarshalN20

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Ed  16:20, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    MarshalN20 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:ARBARG#MarshalN20_topic_banned
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    These two barnstars came after a discussion on Talk:Juan Manuel de Rosas, where the editors opposed User:Lecen's viewpoint. The article is clearly in the realm of Latin American history, and was the principal point of contention in the Argentine history arbitration case (where Lecen was Marshal's principal opponent).

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    User:MarshalN20 is attempting to creatively skirt the topic ban imposed in the Argentine history case and trying to get under Lecen's skin (again). As the ban is supposed to be "broadly construed", I think he's gone over the line—the barnstars are clearly related to the Rosas discussion. Additional context just prior to these incidents can be seen at User_talk:NuclearWarfare/Archive_38#MarshalN20, where Marshal intriguingly says that he "will focus on cleaning my honor as an editor".

    I should also note, in reply to Marshal's comments, that I had privately emailed an arbitrator and an uninvolved administrator who agreed with my assessment but declined to get involved. That's why I'm here now. The barnstars are clearly in response to the Rosas discussion, which being in the realm of Latin American history (and, to make it worse, directly related to the arbitration case that was closed just days ago), is actionable here. The rest of your post has nothing to do with this request, though I should apologize for not noticing the previous AE request. Ed  17:41, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
    @Marshal: they declined because (a) one didn't want to get the committee involved again and (b) they didn't want the accompanying drama, which is understandable. Ed  18:17, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
    @Marshal: You are putting words into my mouth that I am not saying. Both said that you deserved a block, or I wouldn't be here right now. Ed  18:46, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
    @Marshal: This is my last reply. My assessment was that you deserved to be blocked. The two people I emailed concurred but declined to actually do so, because they did not feel like dealing with the drama that can accompany an arbitration enforcement block. I will now happily wait for uninvolved administrators to comment here. Ed  19:25, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
    @Barrelproof: disagreeing with the arbitration committee's decision is not the same thing as enforcing it, I'm afraid. Ed  04:14, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
    @Sandstein: I was in your boat until the second barnstar, when it became clear that it could not be related to anything else. I assumed that "broadly construed" meant that such skirting of the ban was actionable. Ed  05:03, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
    @admins, thanks for the comments. I thought it would be actionable, but then again, I'm not exactly active in arb enforcement either. :-) Ed  16:04, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning MarshalN20

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by MarshalN20

    WikiLove messages are not part of any subject. Moreover, my messages at no point mention any specific topic or discussion, in accordance to WP:TBAN. Both editors have a long history of editing in Misplaced Pages, and I've had the pleasure to view their actions in various occasions.
    Ed is clearly stretching the matter to the border of paranoia. For example, what exactly is "intriguing" about writing that I "plan to clean my honor as an editor"? As you can see in my edit history (see ), I have been arduously working on the GA/FA improvement for the Falkland Islands article (compare it with User:MarshalN20/Sandbox4) just as I promised User:NuclearWarfare.
    I am also currently on the process of getting an article through the FA review (see Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Peru national football team/archive2), and would wholeheartedly appreciate any suggestions anyone here might like to provide for it.
    On a final note, Ed is a close friend of Lecen, who some days ago also attempted to get me blocked through the enforcement board. Both editors need to take a chill pill and get on with their lives instead of focusing their attention on me. This wise (and simple) suggestion was also given by NuclearWarfare.
    Best wishes.--MarshalN20 | 17:34, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

    Ed, if an arbitrator and uninvolved administrator declined to get involved...
    There probably is a pretty good reason for it. (When was the last time someone was blocked for writing a simple WikiLove message?)
    Please move on with your life. There is nothing either me or you need to discuss.
    Regards.--MarshalN20 | 17:49, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
    Dear Ed, my points still stand. There is nothing you have presented here that is worth a block or enforcement (much less the involvement of a committee). You should have followed the wise decision of the people you contacted (avoid creating drama over a trivial matter). Please move on.--MarshalN20 | 18:34, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
    Dear Ed, you progressively change your story in each of your statements. The people you contacted first stated that they agreed with your "assessment" (no explanation on it), next they decline to get involved to avoid drama, and now they said that I "deserved a block".
    And all of this over a trivial WikiLove message?
    Regards.--MarshalN20 | 19:04, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
    Lecen, correlation does not imply causation. I do not intend to discuss the Rosas article (as that would be against the WP:TBAN), but it is important to note that RFC proposals were first made on the article by Iselilja (on July 6) and Langus (on July 9, eleven hours prior to Gaba's message). Thus, to assert that Gaba's motivation is due to my comment is a complete absurdity.
    My message to Gaba is a true reflection of how matters always take place in the Falkland Islands article; and he knows it pretty well. In fact, any experienced administrator should know that the Falklands topics are always riddled with "uncomfortable situations".
    One last time, I ask that Lecen and Ed please stop their grudge and quit stalking my edits.
    Best regards.--MarshalN20 | 18:31, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by BarrelProof

    It seems silly to file a formal complaint about a user giving a couple of people barnstars on their userpages. If that's the best the petitioner can do to find something to complain about, it's rather sad. What would be the state of Misplaced Pages if you weren't even allowed to tell someone you like their editing? Moreover, I'm sad to see the prior decision of a topic ban against MarshalN20. Marshal's prior conduct in that incident doesn't look all that bad to me. In the heat of the moment, we all sometimes slip a little. Marshal is a valuable editor who has subject-matter expertise that can benefit Misplaced Pages. A warning to follow WP:FOC and try to keep cool and maintain more formal courtesy might have sufficed. I've had the privilege of encountering Marshal in some other editing (leading to a "today's featured article" upcoming on July 15, 2013, in fact), and would like to see that contribution continue. I've tried to study that prior dispute a little, and basically haven't been able to figure it out so far, but my rough impression is that the existing topic ban was excessive in this case. —BarrelProof (talk) 03:18, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by (Lecen)

    On July 9 Gaba p mentioned the possibility of making a RfC on Juan Manuel de Rosas. On the same day (and a couple of hour later), MarshalN20 told Galba p how easy it is to make a RfC and how it "helps avoid any uncomfortable situations". There was no present conversation between them at that point. The last time they had talked to each other had been more than a week before.

    This message to Galba p along with the two wikilove messages (sent on July 8) seem to suggest, at minimum, that MarshalN20 has been motivating other users who are taking part on discussions on Juan Manuel de Rosas' talk page. MarshalN20 was banned from all articles related to the history of Latin America, especially Juan Manuel de Rosas' article. --Lecen (talk) 18:04, 12 July 2013 (UTC)


    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning MarshalN20

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    I don't think this is actionable. While Ed is quite possibly correct about MarshalN20's motivation for these barnstars, we shouldn't sanction topic-banned editors for making edits whose relationship to the prohibited topic area is only a matter of inference or supposition, or else the scope of a topic ban becomes unenforceably blurry. In my view, any relationship to the prohibited topic area must be apparent from the edit itself, or the page it is on. But, MarshalN20, a word of advice. If ArbCom bans you from a topic area, take it seriously and drop the subject. Skirting around the ban's edges will not help you get it lifted any time soon.  Sandstein  04:38, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

    • I agree with Sandstein. These barnstars are not significant enough to justify a sanction, but MarshalN20 should avoid this kind of thing in the future. EdJohnston (talk) 03:14, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
    • I'm broadly in agreement here. But I can clearly see why Ed made this report. Pointy behaviour is not constructive. While I think we're in the no action territory I think a word of warning, not just that this will be unhelpful in any ban appeal but that if it continues it will be seen as indicative of a partisan or battleground mentality from MarshalN20 and such a pattern would lead to further sanction--Cailil 11:42, 13 July 2013 (UTC)

    Neo.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Neo.

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Qwyrxian (talk) 16:36, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Neo. (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:ARBIP
    Diffs and explanations of problem

    User:Darkness Shines completely transformed the article 2002 Gujarat violence from one violating multiple policies (particularly, WP:NPOV, WP:RS, and WP:BLP) into one that, while not perfect, was at least minimally compliant (see this sequence of edits). User:Neo. reverted, failing to even recognize DS's concerns, making an unfounded analogy. From that point forward (July 6), Neo and a few others began a series of "defenses" on the talk page, most of which failed to address policies, and in Neo.'s case, crossed over into tendentiousness.

    The problem begins in Talk:2002 Gujarat violence#POV pushing by User:Darkness Shines, where Neo attempted to argue that WP:PRIMARY (including WP:BLPPRIMARY) don't apply here, despite the fact that they apply everywhere in Misplaced Pages (see . He goes further and says that academic sources are "academic crap" and "conspiracy theories" "written to make money". He continues to hold this position in Talk:2002 Gujarat violence#Edit request on 6 July 2013, in which he asserts that such violations are "minor problems" that Darkness Shines is using to divert admins. Later, Neo erroneously states that verified information may not be removed from an article.

    On July 8, Neo added what he claimed was an RfC...but the phrasing was so extremely biased that I removed the tag and indicated that such a leading question was unacceptable.

    On July 9, Neo stated that my and User:The Rahul Jain's only reason for being involved in the article was because of "prior disputes on Jainism articles"; actually, TRJ had a dispute with Neo., which I stepped into because, as with this article, Neo was attempting to keep an older version of articles that violated policies in spite of TRJ's improvements. My reason for involvement in this article was originally as an uninvolved admin responding to an edit request that I became aware of because it was discussed on a user talk page I watch. I've since explicitly stated that I consider myself WP:INVOLVED and am not taking admin actions on the article. Neo. repeated this claim on July 15.

    On July 10, Neo. insinuated that RegentsPark, the previous protected admin who had protected a version resembling DS's preferred version to stop an edit war, and chose the current version as the WP:WRONGVERSION, would come back to the article again to intentionally choose DS's version to favor him.

    On July 11, Neo. proposed a new change to the article, which quite obviously violated WP:NPOV, later, User:Maunus noticed (and I confirmed) that Neo was misrepresenting the sources, either through lack of comprehension or deliberate POV pushing (see Talk:2002 Gujarat violence#comments and Talk:2002 Gujarat violence#31 convicted, we know already).

    During this whole shebang, Neo. filed two WP:ANI complaints. Both were dismissed as being at best a misrepresented content dispute and at worst "baseless" and WP:IDHT/WP:STICK. See Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive803#Admin Qwyrxian and WP:ANI#GANG on 2002 Gujarat violence. He also made similar accusations at the Noticeboard for India-related topics (see WT:INB#Wikiproject India and GANG), which included an accusation of tag-teaming, and was closed as not appropriate for the noticeboard.

    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Warned on July 9 by Qwyrxian (talk · contribs)
    2. User Talk:Neo.#Warning contains a series of edits by several admins about edit warring
    3. Darkness Shines (talk · contribs) left the formal, templated warning on July 15
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    @Sandstein: The warning on July 9, left on the article's talk page, is sufficient to meet the warning requirements of sanctions; all that is requires is that editors be aware that sanctions are in place on an article, not that a personal, templated warning be left for that person specifically. There are certainly actionable diffs after the July 9 date; most notably the tendentiousness displayed in proposing and making editors waste time in arguing about a blatantly POV recommended change to the article. While article space problems are more "obvious" than talk page one's, WP:IDHT and WP:TE problems on talk pages can drive away good faith editors and be equally destructive to the encyclopedia. Qwyrxian (talk) 22:14, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

    I was going to accept Sandstein's argument wrt the the warnings, as I have no problem with requiring strict adherence to rules. However, I'm worried that Neo's second statement itself is evidence that the problem has not gone away--rather, that the disruptive behavior is merely on hold while this discussion is open. To me, that statement still clearly shows errors in understanding of preferred editing behaviors, as well as still attributes unwarranted motives to myself and regentspark. So...perhaps a stern warning will do (along with some administrative watching of the talk page to ensure future behavior is acceptable)...but my experience with this type of POV pushing--so strong that the POV-pusher doesn't even realize that they're warping everything, including our policies, to try to make things conform to "the truth"--doesn't get better with time, or even with warnings. Qwyrxian (talk) 21:47, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
    Diff of notification


    Discussion concerning Neo.

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Neo.

    This whole ArbCom concept is new to me. I use mobile. Please give at least 24 hours to study this concept and write my side. Until decision is made, I will not edit any article related to Gujarat, politics or religion. Thanks. neo (talk) 18:55, 15 July 2013 (UTC) It would take very long and very long post if I try to analyse every edit of all users. I may left out something but let me use Occam's razor and try to be short. I will talk about things happened before yesterday's edit by User:Utcursch.

    The whole argument is about whether this 'Godhra train burning' section is presenting NPOV. And I don't see it. The section begins with "was reported to have been attacked and set alight by a crowd of Muslims". Then section goes on citing Banerjee report, Hazard center report, Citizen's tribunal report, independent observers and Ainslie Embree to tell reader that the fire was an accident and muslims got nothing to do with it. Shah-Nanavati report use 'conspiracy by locals' wording, not Muslims. But as it indicate Muslim involvement, DS has done WP:SYNTHESIS in next sentence to tell reader that Shah-Nanavati commission was partial and corrupt, attempt to destroy credibility of Shah-Nanavati report. So if a school child or new reader read this section, he/she would believe that the fire on train was an accident.

    To present other side of the story, i.e 'direct or alleged involvement of Muslim mob', I proposed this edit. I am dealing with 4 users single handendly. DS says out of 6 sources, 3 are primary and 1 blog but refuses to tell which. Then he goes on to say that the "locals" word cover 'muslim mob' theory. So my edit is unnecessary. I pointed out to Maunus that 2002 HRW report is already used by DS in the article and 2012 HRW article still quote 2002 report. Now Maunus is giving strange argument that as HRW report is critical of post-Godhra violence, hence I can't use that report for Godhra incident and he accuse me of "misrepresentation". Qwyrxian was silent. I forced him to comment in this section. I am attrbuting to sources with direct quotes, but he also accused me of "misrepresentation". The Rahul Jain just occasionaly drops in to 'vote' in favor of DS and goes away without any comment on my proposed edit.

    The team shows extreme disliking for news or any web sources and insist on 'academic' sources. But in 'Godhra train burning' section, out of 10 sources DS has used 4 news sources to support Banerjee report, Shah-Nanavati report, Citizen's tribunal report. When it comes to supporting their POV, they do use news and web sources, but oppose by others. They discard pre-2010 sources as old and outdated, but goes on using 2002 HRW report and 2003 USCIRF report to support their POV in the article.

    Initially I assumed good faith in DS and believed that the 'attack by a muslim mob' theory don't exist in his 'academic book' sources. Hence I called those books as 'crap' because I believed that those books are not telling whole story about Godhra. But now I strongly suspect that DS, Maunus and Qwyrxian are cherry picking POV contents from academic sources and as most users don't have access to his academic sources, he is getting away with it. Yesterday User:Utcursch got hold of two books and said here that DS has clearly misrepresented Ainslie Embree. I strongly suspect that 'attack by a muslim mob' theory is also discussed in his academic sources but he is making readers believe that it doesn't exist in his book sources or all books talk about only 'accident' theory as real cause.

    Such tendentious behaviour, gaming the system frustrate users and severely harm quality of wikipedia. I request ArbCom to take appropriate decision to stop their disruptive behaviour. Thank you. neo (talk) 17:21, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

    Additional comment by Neo.

    I am giving Human Rights Watch, United States Department of State , European Parliament, Amnesty International , Social Science Research Council, United Nations Human Rights Council , TIME magazine , Wall Street Journal as sources. I am attributing quotes to sources. I am ready to bring more hundreds of sources. But the arguments like this by Maunus that "Sources talk about attacks against muslims after Godhra, hence I can not use those sources for Godhra incident to show attack by muslims on train" and on this argument attempt to reject all thousands of sources is outragious. Making a team, inserting non-neutral contents and then forbidding any user to include other side of the story, pulling down Rfc to gag my mouth, such things are very serious matter for the wikipedia. If Admins disagree, then better to block me. I can't stand this nonsense. neo (talk) 11:20, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    Was I supposed to comment on the statement of Qwyrxian or was I supposed to make statement on the issue? neo (talk) 14:20, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    Comment by Neo. on Qwyrxian's statement

    Much before User:Darkness Shines started replacing article, I had told him to propose his changes on article talkpage. But DS ignored it and started replacing article. I objected and told him on article talkpage to self-revert. Div999 supported DS, while me, Solomon7968, Shii raised questions. But as DS went on replacing article, I reverted all his edits except this one concerning BLPPRIMARY. It is never restored till date but Qwyrxian keep talking about it again and again. On that false assumption he reverted my edit. Qw had no idea what DS is doing, when I pointed out he did second mass revert. If there was ever BLPPRIMARY in my revert removed by DS, Qw should give diff, otherwise he should stop raising this issue again and again which potentially misguide users.

    • I stand by my argument that verified contents can not be removed without explaination.
    • Qw should have pointed out which sources and contents in prev version of article violate WP:RS and WP:NPOV. Qw never did, he left that job for DS and DS also never did. In fact in his second comment on talkpage Qw suggested to DS to discuss changes section by section or take Rfc. I agreed. DS disagreed. Then Qw did U turn, declared himself editor and started asking me to show what is wrong in the draft article of DS I had no access to book sources of DS and was unable to comment on whole draft article of DS in short time. Qw had suggested Rfc to DS, but instead I went for Rfc. Qw removed Rfc tag accusing me of bad behaviour citing WP:AC/DS and saying that standards are extra high for this article. But he didn't know existence of this article until a "week ago". If he have no idea about subject of the article, why he allowed replacement of whole article? He claims standards are extra high but as he had no idea about existence of the article, he never checked whether contents of DS really exists in academic books. Qw says that he might have argued to block DS before. Why suddenly blind faith in DS to allow him to replace whole article which is under WP:AC/DS? * Qw has himself said that he was not aware of existence of article. He has also said on my talkpage that he came on this article after seeing my edit request on RegentsPark talkpage. Also it can be seen from article edit history that The Rahul Jain jumped in on this article only because of me and Qw.
    • My doubt about RegentsPark-DS was not unfounded. Even after ANI discussion, he protected article which had disputed contents of DS. I have no reason to believe that RegentsPark won't do it again.
    • Maunus has commented only about HRW and UN source. I asked in RSN whether HRW is reliable source and am I misrepresenting. I am not misrepresenting anything.
    • It can be clearly established that Qw and Rahul Jain were not on '2002 Gujarat violence' and I had prior dispute with both related to Jainism articles. There are 4.4 million articles. Now how they suddenly jumped on '2002 Gujarat violence' to support another disputing pair of DS and Maunus is mystery. If this does not fit into definition of tag team, then I retract my accusation and apologize to all concerned. neo (talk) 20:25, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by RegentsPark

    I concur largely with Qwyrxian's analysis above so I'm not going to repeat all the diffs here but do wish to make a couple of points. Neo needs to be aware that the way Misplaced Pages works we collaborate on content. What that means is that sometimes editors may agree with each other while at other times they may disagree. However, in each instance of agreement or disagreement, the way forward is always through specific content suggestions and specific sources to back up those suggestions. Wholesale reverts with broad accusations of POV violations and/or tag teaming are not only not helpful but are also disruptive (cf. , ). Neo needs to realize that pointy RfCs, assumptions of bad faith, and large scale reverts are not the way toward becoming a useful editor on Misplaced Pages. --regentspark (comment) 15:23, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Yogesh Khandke

    (1) I agree with user:Sandstein that a content dispute has been brought to this venue, as evident from the arguments put forward by the nominator and the counter-arguments presented by Neo. (2) The revision history statistics of 2002 Gujarat violence indicate that there have been 3857 edits made by 1073 users, made over a period of almost 10 years. What kind of evidence does the nominator have in support of his claim that DS has completely transformed the article from one that had multiple issues to one that is compliant? (3) In a subject so subjective and controversial, the article would reflect the views of the consensus. Do DS's 128 edits made in 45 days, the third highest to the article, reflect respect to wp:CONSENSUS, where is the evidence that Neo's edits overturn that consensus? (4) So the nominator's claim that "There are certainly actionable diffs after the July 9 date; most notably the tendentiousness displayed in proposing and making editors waste time in arguing about a blatantly POV recommended change to the article." does not apply in Neo's case. Neo is prepared to discuss and act according to the rules as declared in his edit on "11:08, 11 July 2013 (UTC)" in which he informs that he would refer the matter to DRN or RFC/U. (5) Neo is trying to discuss, he has less than 12 edits to 2002 Gujarat violence, DS has 128. RegentsParks needs to provide evidence why he considers Neo unwilling to collaborate. (6) I suggest to Neo that he ought not to use words/phrases like "nonsense" or "block me", he may consider looking at the path user:Mrt3366 had to take, he has to trust the system, there isn't anything personal against him. (7) I suggest that Neo shouldn't comment on the motivation of other editors in making edits, and not make personal comments about them. (8) There have been allegations by the nominator that edits made by Neo are actionable, evidence for the same simply indicates a content dispute, Neo has expressed willingness to set right any behavioural issues the community may find in his edits, he has demonstrated sound understanding of the principles of good editing by his statement that he would stay away from "sanction areas" pending his appeal. Administrative action on Misplaced Pages is "coercive and not punitive", I therefore do not see any reason to ban or block Neo, if any advice is necessary to be given to Neo, it may be given, Neo has demonstrated that he would take it to heart. Yogesh Khandke (talk) 03:29, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Neo.

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    Neo., to clarify, this is not a hearing by the Arbitration Committee, but a request to administrators like me to take action under the Committee's delegated authority, see WP:AC/DS.

    I don't readily see anything actionable in this submission, or to convince me that this is not mainly a content dispute. The warning allowing us to impose discretionary sanctions was issued on 15 July. Anything earlier is not actionable in the context of this forum in my view. And there is no later dated diff in the evidence submission. Additionally, writing poor-quality content (not that I say that this has necessarily happened here) or making mistaken arguments in discussions is not a violation of Misplaced Pages's conduct policies, and therefore not in and of itself sanctionable.

    But writing non-neutral and unverifiable content is, as is engaging in personal attacks. Neo. should take care in the future to adhere to all important policies as outlined at WP:5P, and not make sweeping accusations of misconduct without adequate evidence. The countercomplaint by Neo. is too confused and insufficiently supported by evidence (in the form of explained diffs!) to be actionable at first glance.  Sandstein  21:40, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

    Qwyrxian, the July 9 warning is not sufficient, because WP:AC/DS#Warnings requires that the warning include "a link to the decision authorizing sanctions", which that warning did not.  Sandstein  23:07, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
    Sorry, Sandstein, but this objection is really an extreme form of rules-lawyering formalism. The warning contained a link to WP:Discretionary sanctions, which in itself documents an arbcom decision "authorizing sanctions", describing the nature of discretionary sanctions and listing, with links, all the individual arb cases. That is at least as authoritative and as informative (if not more) than a direct link to the original case page, and is more than enough to fulfill both the letter and – more importantly – the spirit of the formal rule. I haven't yet looked at all the evidence presented above, but I'm certainly not going to look at it with an artifical cutoff date of 15 July in mind, unless there is positive evidence that he has significantly improved his conduct after that date (as opposed to just accidentally not producing new egregious cases of misconduct). Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:09, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
    Well, you may do as you wish, but I prefer to err on the side of caution when determining whether enforcement authority exists. The problem is that WP:DS is not a decision authorizing sanctions; the individual case decisions do that.  Sandstein  18:17, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
    • As far as I'm concerned that July 9th warning IS sufficient, so I agree with Future Perfect. Such a warning has been good enough historically. If there had been a talk page template that would have been enough (for me now and again has been historically). Given that the message on the talk page was directly to Neo, I see it serving the same purpose as a formalized warning.
      On a first look at the evidence there is either a WP:COMPETENCE or tendentiousness issue here with Neo. There have been enough administrative warnings here from multiple uninvolved sysops. And Neo has been casting aspersions wildly. Some sort of restriction is in order here, at least to point Neo in the right direction or to let him learn elsewhere (in other topics) how to behave on WP. I'd be considering a 1 month page ban. But I'm open to suggestion either to be more or less harsh--Cailil 22:02, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    Delicious carbuncle

    handed off to Arbcom. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:49, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Request concerning Delicious carbuncle

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Andy Dingley (talk) 09:53, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Delicious carbuncle (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Wikipediocracy is a forum for WP editors and others to attack WP editors and out them, seemingly without sanction on WP. In the latest example, an editor Delicious carbuncle has posted a substantial attack on another WP editor. I'm not linking to this (see below for why), but it's obvious from the site's main page and I'm sure that all Arbs will be aware of it by now.

    After ArbCom actions a year ago, Delicious carbuncle is under specific sanctions to not use Wikipediocracy to attack WP editors by outing:

    I believe this recent action to be a breach of that.

    Some background, just to save obvious questions later:

    My awareness of Wikipediocracy stems from a recently contested AfD (a Wikipediocracy issue in itself), as a result of which I suffered attacks and outing at Wikipediocracy myself , from WP editors, an admin and non-editors. Complaints about that though were rejected through WP (and I'm sure they're outside scope here). WP:ANI#Alexander_Montagu.2C_13th_Duke_of_Manchester_and_canvassing_at_Wikipediocracy

    Having been told that I can't raise personal complaints as that's self-interested and "just whining", I was repulsed last night to see that Wikipediocracy is now front-paging another of its "exposes" - two editors with whom I have no connection (I've seen both in passing, never memorably interacted with either). Accordingly I raised that at WP:AN#Wikipediocracy_and_outing, only to be threatened with blocking for having done so, and of course it being closed and hatted promptly.

    However in this case, I have since been informed that there's an outstanding and specific sanction against Delicious carbuncle over doing this. Accordingly I raise it here.

    Further clarifications:

    • I've not posted the direct links to the material concerned. This is because I'm under specific threat of blocking for doing so, per WP:SHOOTTHEMESSENGER. This no doubt gives Arbcom a ready-made excuse to close and ignore this, just because I've not filled the complaint forms in properly. One would hope for slightly better though.
    • A "public interest defence" has already been given that the user outed is so odious that our protective policies on outing don't apply to them. I know of no such loopholes. Perhaps ArbCom might clarify precisely when we regard editors as so odious that we no longer protect them in such a way. Also just what it is I've done that makes me also into such an outlaw scumbag
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Delicious carbuncle

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Delicious carbuncle

    Statement by Dan Murphy

    This statement has been removed because it is not related to the question of how and whether this is actionable as an AE matter, per my warning below.  Sandstein  12:45, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Collect

    Wikipediocracy is frequently sophomoric (heck - so are some things on Misplaced Pages, for that matter.) The question is not "attack" as that is such a broad claim that even saying "Editor Gnarph uses long words" falls into that category. So we must decide first if the incident alluded to here actually is "outing" else it clearly is outside the purview of ArbCom, and only then if the matter is of such import that it trquires action here. I did not think when I just read the post that it meets those criteria. Collect (talk) 11:16, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Hullaballoo Wolfowitz

    This matter does not fall under the ArbCom ruling cited. In that case, Delicious Carbuncle was admonished for posting "another editor's non-disclosed private information", which, it turned out, he had retrieved from an online database. In this matter, the editor in question disclosed their own name on Misplaced Pages, in connection with image uploads, and posted under that name (or online handles openly associated with that name) on external sites (self-identifying, inter alia, as an official in a well-known hate group with a track record of criminal activity.) Discussing that is not a violation of either the principle declared by ArbCom or the principal terms of WP:OUTING. Perhaps DC has approached the limits of what is allowed in tracing openly acknowledged associations of other editors, but given the nature of those associations I think he reasonably believed his actions were allowed by Misplaced Pages policies. If we do not wish to tolerate editors pointing out other editors' openly acknowledged associations with unsavory or criminal groups or activities, we should have a much clearer policy (and be ready to deal with substantial, well-justified, criticism from outside observers and commenters.) Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 13:49, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Tarc

    I've really never cared for a editor advocating on behalf of another; we're not a court, and do not need stand-ins unless there is some extraordinarily unusual circumstance that necessitates it. Mr. Dingley has no standing to complain about a matter not concerning him, so as others have noted, if this Kintetsubuffalo person believes there is some policy-violating, on-Misplaced Pages transgression that DC has committed, then he is perfectly capable of filing the complaint in the venue of choice. I'd note though that per Misplaced Pages:Harassment#Off-wiki harassment off-wiki activities are not directly sanctionable though, and are usually only considered as potential aggravating factor within a larger case. DC vs. Fae was actionable because of the past on-wiki strife between the two, so that isn't really applicable here as to my knowledge there has been no on-wiki dispute between DC and Kintetsubuffalo.

    DC is a journalist, writing exposés about newsworthy/problematic Misplaced Pages people and events, no different from Amanda Filipacchi or Phil Taylor other than the fact that he is also a long-time Misplaced Pages editor. Membership here should not give one extra ammo with which to try to silence one's critics. Tarc (talk) 14:14, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by IRWolfie-

    An editor has brought up credible evidence that another editor is a member of the Ku Klux Klan. This AE thread and the original AN thread, to my surprise are not about dealing with this extraordinary revelation and trying to set up some process to arrive at the truth, rather people seem most concerned about suppressing the information, despite no specific disagreement with the evidence presented.

    Misplaced Pages policies aren't laws which we follow blindly. It should be obvious to everyone that the "loophole" is IAR. If WP:OUTING conflicts with removing a KKK member via IAR, IAR wins. I worry about anyone that would disagree. I can not understand why there exists a discussion in which editors are trying to have DC blocked for this, IRWolfie- (talk) 23:07, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    • @LiquidWater Wow. You are defending the rights of someone in the KKK (a designated hate group) to edit wikipedia. No, you are taking the "the encyclopedia that anyone can edit" mantra to ridiculous heights. Do you want to start unbanning and unblocking everyone too? If someone is a racist bigot and a member of a group that has been involved in murdering people over race they should be shown the door for the scum they are. IRWolfie- (talk) 08:19, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Cla68

    What's up with Misplaced Pages? Someone provides a report on how a Misplaced Pages editor may be an active member in a racist hate group and other activities that should be concerning to WP's administration and a WP editor with a grudge decides to try to get the person sanctioned. You really cannot make this stuff up. And yes, this does apply to why this is or is not sanctionable here at AE. Cla68 (talk) 23:22, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by LiquidWater

    (To above statements) A user's membership in organisations such as KKK or any other political group, should not determine whether or not (s)he shall be allowed to use and edit Misplaced Pages. We are the encyclopedia that anyone can edit. LiquidWater 07:58, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

    @IRWolfie: Who should decide what groups are acceptable (and not) to be a member of? WP is not the place for discussions with political undertones, and even though I despise the Klu Klux Klan, it would be political censorship to exclude their members (if it can be proved that they are members) from WP. I can imagine that if a radical extremist user posted something like "fuck all Jews" or "kill all Niggers" on a third-party website, the Wikipediocracy guys would be all over WP trying to get the guy blocked. LiquidWater 08:42, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

    Result concerning Delicious carbuncle

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    Without wanting to express an opinion on the merits, I think this request is not actionable at the AE level for procedural reasons. Here's why: The first decision invoked, "Delicious carbuncle posted identifying information on Fæ", is a finding of fact, not a remedy. Only remedies are enforceable. The second decision invoked, "Delicious carbuncle severely admonished and warned", is a warning, not a restriction. But the decision's enforcement section only says "Should any user subject to a restriction in this case violate that restriction ...", in other words, it does not provide for the enforcement of warnings. This means that administrators are not authorized to take enforcement action in this case.

    As I said at AN, this matter should be referred for private deliberation to ArbCom (if it hasn't already) by any person who believes themselves to be aggrieved by the offwiki actions at issue. Onwiki discussions are unhelpful in privacy-related matters. A warning to all participants to this thread: Any statements not directly related to the question of how and whether this is actionable as an AE matter may be removed, and this entire thread may be removed if it derails into a venue for pointless drama and privacy breaches.  Sandstein  12:41, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    • The Fae case has no provision for discretionary sanctions. All it says is that admins may issue a block if anyone restricted in the case violates a restriction. DC is not formally restricted, but the committee used vigorous language in deploring his behavior: "Delicious carbuncle is severely admonished for posting another editor's non-disclosed private information on an external website and warned that should they do so again, they will face sanctions, up to and including an indefinite site ban from Misplaced Pages.." This suggests that if DC releases private information again that Arbcom might throw the book at him. Not our call. Anyone who is sufficiently concerned should take this to Arbcom directly. I think that if anyone participating here wanted to file at WP:ARCA, it would not risk the revelation of anything not previously revealed, so long as the request itself contained no additional text beyond what was filed here, and contained no links to offwiki information. If they were presented with this complaint, Arbcom could then decide what level of confidentiality they prefer. In my opinion Sandstein's removal of the above comment by Dan Murphy was correct. EdJohnston (talk) 16:20, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    SonofSetanta and TROUBLES

    Not actionable in this form. Please resubmit, if at all, in the form that includes all required information and avoids threaded discussion.  Sandstein  18:14, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    SonofSetanta (talk · contribs) has violated 1R on Ulster Defence Regiment. They Created their own knockoff version of a copyrighted logo (which is factually incorrect) and proceeded to insert it across multiple articles. The user has repeatedly threatened to report me to AE for enforcing WP:NFCC on pages that they are involved with and I am getting sick of it. The users understanding of WP:NFCC is non-existent and they edit war to violate it. Werieth (talk) 17:24, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    Hi, please click here to re-add your request with all the required information, notably diffs.  Sandstein  17:29, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
    Diff 1 Diff 2 Werieth (talk) 17:55, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    No violation has taken place by me. The above user has turned a problem over copyright military badges into a WP:BATTLE. He is trying to use his position to violate Troubles sanctions (and has done) despite a warning from Calil. I have followed Calil's advice and waited several hours after the 24 hour deadline for 1 RR before posting the new image which does not breach any guidelines. Furthermore I have sought advice at MILHIST and elsewhere. I believe the issue is that Werieth doesn't understand the significance of using military insignia in military info boxes. Calil has said as much. I am also very firmly of the opinion that Weieth has opened this complaint frivolously because I threatened to open one about him if he carried on editwarring in breach of 1RR at Ulster Defence Regiment and related articles. (see his talk page Werieth (talk). SonofSetanta (talk) 17:37, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

    Arbitration enforcement action appeal by AgadaUrbanit

    Appealing user
    AgadaUrbanit (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction being appealed

    https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages%3AArbitration%2FRequests%2FEnforcement&diff=502419675&oldid=502419285

    Administrator imposing the sanction
    T. Canens.
    Notification of that administrator


    Statement by AgadaUrbanit

    It has been a year since my AE ban. I did my best to contribute to Misplaced Pages and respect ban restriction. Considering the length of the ban and my contributions I am requesting a lifting of my ban. Thank you.

    Discussion

    Result of appeal by AgadaUrbanit