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• Syrian civil war:
  • Syrian activists claim that chemical weapon attacks have killed over 600 people in the outskirts of Damascus. (The Guardian) (Today's Zaman)

• JC Penney reports a notable decrease in third quarter income. (Forbes)

• Japan upgrades the recent leak of radioactive water from the Fukushima nuclear disaster site to Level 3, a "serious incident," on the International Nuclear Event Scale. (Reuters India)
• 2013 China–Russia floods: Twenty one people are killed in a flash flood in Qinghai province. (AP via ABC Local News)
• 37 killed, 16 injured in a bus crash in Malaysia, near the Chin Swee Temple. (AP via The Globe and Mail)
• 18 schoolgirls from Pembroke Hill School, and driver injured in bus crash near Bonner Springs, Missouri. (USA Today)

• David Miranda, journalist Glenn Greenwald's partner in covering United States and British mass surveillance programmes, arrives in Brazil, after being released from detainment at Heathrow airport, London. (GloboNews)
• The Nigerian army officially claims the Boko Haram leader Abubakar Shekau, is dead from a gunfight, although others claim Shekau is alive. (The Globe and Mail)

• A Cairo criminal court releases former President Hosni Mubarak, initiating further investigation of corruption. (BBC)
• United States v Bradley Manning: United States Army private Chelsea Manning (legally Bradley Manning) is sentenced to 35 years in jail for providing classified material to WikiLeaks. (ABC News America)
• British businessman Gary Bolton is sentenced 7 years for selling fraudulent bomb detectors. (BBC)

Lemurs

• Updated and nominated by Maky (talk · give credit)

• Support as nominator. This is a major claim that has a lot of validity given the situation in Madagascar. Lemurs are very diverse, and the number of species they encompass makes up a very large percentage of the order Primates. – Maky 04:27, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

RD: Sid Bernstein

• Nominated by Masem (talk · give credit)

• Support as the inventor of the multi-billion dollar sports-arena concert venue. μηδείς (talk) 21:19, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support Seems to have had a major impact with the British Invasion. Article could do with some work, though. Neljack (talk) 21:22, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
• Comment. Call me annoyingly over-sceptical if you like, and please set me straight if you have facts that say I'm wrong. I'm sensing that this guy was a successful concert promoter and a great self-publicist, but I wonder if his key claims to fame really stack up. Firstly, the Beatles first visit to America consisted of their famous performances on the Ed Sullivan show, and concerts at Washington Coliseum and New York Carnegie Hall. Bernstein was responsible for booking them for Carnegie Hall, their third booking in the US. So, while he was not an unimportant figure in their career at that time, "brought the Beatles to America" seems like an exaggeration. And the Beatles performance at Shea Stadium in 1965 was not the first concert to be held in a sports stadium. Elvis Presley had certainly made a number of stadium appearances and the Beatles themselves played 6 stadium venues on their 1964 tour of North America . In any event, the article needs more content and more sourcing. Formerip (talk) 23:31, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose Per FormerIP. He seems to be one of several promoters responsible for the Beatles success. The article doesn't do that much to assert his notability.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:25, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Bradley Manning

• Nominated by Abductive (talk · give credit)

• Support. This is major news with national and international implications. Girona7 (talk) 14:52, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support. Such a long sentence for someone who thought of himself as a truth-teller will spur global debate over national-security issues vs. free speech and "whistle-blowing." Sca (talk) 15:07, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support I think(?) I may of opposed the initial nom but now he's been sentenced I think the story is suitable to go up. This is definitely news.--Somchai Sun (talk) 15:16, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support We didn't post his verdict last month Misplaced Pages:In_the_news/Candidates/July_2013#Bradley_Manning_verdict. This time let's post his sentence. Let's also make sure the article gets updated in a timely manner. Mohamed CJ (talk) 15:17, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support. A sentence roughly equal to ten My Lai massacres. Just saying. Formerip (talk) 15:19, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
• Posted. Thue (talk) 16:05, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
• The words "classified information" could be linked to United States diplomatic cables leak --LukeSurl 18:29, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
• Comment. The person is now known as Chelsea Manning (although the official name is still the same). Mohamed CJ (talk) 13:17, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I think that the name should be changed on the Main Page if that's what the article title is now. The Moose is loose! 14:09, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

That the article is titled that now is irrelevant. The move wasn't a result of a consensus-building process, but of a pair of editors' moving and a move-protection keeping it in place. It may be reversed, per WP:RMT. We especially have a problem on the Main Page, where it's a bit of a mouthful to clarify that Chelsea Manning is who everyone knows as Bradley Manning. -- tariqabjotu 14:29, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

As I say below, MOS:IDENTITY says that the proper name of the page is "Chelsea". – Muboshgu (talk) 19:11, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

• Oppose the name change in the blurb until he/she legally changes his/her name and gender. The blurb is confusing and too long the way it is currently. 331dot (talk) 17:15, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
  • She asked to go by Chelsea. Standard practice is to respect that request, even though she's more commonly known as Bradley. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:17, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
    • Can you cite that standard practice just for my information? I don't advocate changing the article or article title, just the blurb which could confuse people. 331dot (talk) 17:22, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
      • From GLAAD: "Always use a transgender person's chosen name" (scroll down to "Names, Pronoun Usage & Descriptions". – Muboshgu (talk) 17:39, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
        • I was referring to a Misplaced Pages policy; but if we are going to go that route then "Bradley" should just be removed from the blurb. The blurb doesn't need to provide a history of her name change. Chelsea looks like the displayed image currently anyway. 331dot (talk) 17:44, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
          • Oh, LOL good point. I don't know if there is a Misplaced Pages policy on transgender individuals. I work in the mental health field, though, and it is our S.O.P. to refer to transgender individuals as they wish to be addressed. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:37, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
          • I think the name "Bradley" should stay in the blurb, since it is the WP:COMMONNAME, but maybe we can change "legally" to "formerly" to reduce confusion? – Muboshgu (talk) 18:40, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
            • You do realize WP:COMMONNAME is an article titling policy, right? -- tariqabjotu 19:05, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
              • Not one that should trump MOS. According to MOS:IDENTITY, "Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman"), pronouns, and possessive adjectives that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. " – Muboshgu (talk) 19:08, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

• Request: If we're going to mention Manning's old name, can we say 'formerly' instead of 'legally', please? In a common-law jurisdiction, someone's legal name is generally whatever they call themselves. Thanks. AlexTiefling (talk) 17:49, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

I don't know about the state Manning is from, but in most states one must go to court to change their name legally. One can call themselves whatever they want (much like Stefani Germanotta calls herself Lady Gaga and Katy Perry's legal name is Kathryn Hudson) but that doesn't mean they have legally changed their name. 331dot (talk) 17:53, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

It appears that Manning has not legally changed her name yet. She is in the early stages of the gender transition. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:40, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

This is a federal case. Do you have any evidence that the legal name of an adult at federal law is anything other than what they call themselves? AlexTiefling (talk) 23:17, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

• Comment per the discussion here and at the article talk about what "legal name" means and the lack of consensus about whether it is relevant, I have changed the blurb from "legally Bradley Manning" to "formerly Bradley Manning" as this is factually correct regardless of what their legal name is or what status it has. Thryduulf (talk) 23:34, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

• Restore original blurb Can we restore the original blurb, please? Pouncing on today's announcement by Manning is titilating but can we please wait until the issue is settled amongst reliable sources, which still refer to Manning as Bradley. It's too soon and MOS:IDENTITY gives no guidance as to what name to apply to a person. --RA (✍) 00:29, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

  Eh? The second bullet at MOS:IDENTITY starts Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman"), pronouns, and possessive adjectives that reflect that person's latest "expressed gender self-identification. (italics per original). It is reported in many reliable sources that Manning's latest expressed self-identification is as a female named "Chelsea Manning". Further, as extensively noted on the article talk page reliable sources published since this statement was made are using female pronouns, etc. Finally, the article is currently at Chelsea Manning and the main page link should absolutely match the name of the article. If you wish to express your disagreement with the title of the article, there is a currently open requested move on the talk page for this very purpose. Thryduulf (talk) 00:41, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

  "Chelsea Manning" is not a gendered noun (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman"), pronoun, or possessive adjective. It is a name. As I wrote, "It's too soon and MOS:IDENTITY gives no guidance as to what name to apply to a person." Also, please don't be picky with reliable sources. For example, this BBC report on Manning's announcement uses "he" and refers to Manning as "Bradley" and is far more typical of reporting.

  This whole thing is far too rushed and the move (which was obviously going to be controversial) was made without discussion. I have already contributed to the discussion on the talk page to restore the article title. --RA (✍) 00:54, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

  Actually, given how clear both Manning's statement and Misplaced Pages's BLP policies are, it was not obviously going to be controversial. Which reliable sources refer to her as male and which refer to her as female is an issue not for here but for Talk:Chelsea Manning. All that matters for this page is that the main page blurb matches the current title of the article. Thryduulf (talk) 01:13, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

• In any event, I think the new blurb handles it very well. The Moose is loose! 03:12, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
• Restore original blurb The revised one cannot be interpreted as correct. His legal name is Bradley, that is the name he was charged and prosecuted under and convicted as. In circumstances such as this is is usual to use the contemporary name for the events in question, which is Bradley. If we cast that aside and reflect things as they are currently he is not a US solider. Therefore your possible interpretation of the blurb are either wrong, wrong or wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.241.71 (talk) 03:30, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
  • Misplaced Pages's policies are clear that a person should be referred to using their latest expressed gender identity (in this case a female called Chelsea) for all periods of their life. Yes, she was charged and convicted under the name "Bradley" but while the article is at Chelsea Manning that is where the blurb must link. The "(formerly known as Bradley Manning)" gives the necessary context for people who are not aware of her latest expressed identity, so in the absence of better wording for the contextual note (please feel free to share any suggestions you have) there is nothing that needs to be changed. Thryduulf (talk) 10:20, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
• Propose closing this discussion. Manning's sentence was a near indisputable consensus for ITN. THe debate over the name change is being discussed at many places at the moment--I suggest primarily directing editors to WP:ERRORS.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:41, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

• Any Misplaced Pages/ITN precedent? - In the past, if an ITN individual said something like "call me "The Pope" did we honor that or stick with using thier legal name? If "Chelsea" (whom I assume still has to use the toilet the way other men do) decided to be Barbara tomorrow or Bob the next - how is the article kept up? Just asking...

OR: Just preserve the news sequencing and say it as it actually played out - "Bradley Manning (who afterward asked to be addressed as Chelsea Manning) is convicted of..." - that way the name at the the time of conviction and the subsequent rename request are both acknowledged.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.19.147.115 (talk)

Your first comment (Barbara or Bob) shows a stunning lack of understanding of transgender individuals and what they go through. Your latter suggestion adds unnecessary words that are better expressed with the word "formerly". – Muboshgu (talk) 18:24, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

ITN and every other main page item practice is to match the title of an article in all cases except where pipes are used to avoid dismabiguation or for a more natural flow of words (e.g. today's featured article blurb is: ] is a ] road bridge over the ] in ]...). Precedent is that if an article is moved, the link on the main page is updated to match the new article title. Regarding your comment "whom I assume still has to use the toilet the way other men do", the way any person uses the toilet is absolutely none of your or our business and speculating about it is a gross invasion of their privacy. Thryduulf (talk) 19:14, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Request to PULL Chelsea Manning from ITN, replace with new news

Hello, first time posting re: the Main Page, so forgive me if I'm not following convention correctly. But I would like to submit a request that Chelsea Manning be pulled from ITN. This item has already been up here for over two (?) days and I think the newsworthiness of this item is fading. There are other world news events that probably merit inclusion (which I am not here suggesting, but merely giving for examples) such as the bombing in Lebanon, wildfires in Yosemite, UN military action in the Congo, and the fires in Portugal. I think that the sentencing of Chelsea Manning has been adequately covered, and the name/gender announcement has been at least reported, even if Misplaced Pages can't agree on how. However, keeping this item at the top of ITN does serve to continue to draw attention to the ongoing large-scale conflict among editors regarding the proposed move of that article and use of gender pronouns throughout. I think that is detrimental to the overall encyclopedia project, and I think wikipedians need to have this conflict behind the scenes without essentially advertising it to the world on the Main Page. Also, I don't know if I'm reading the red box at the top of this page correctly, but it looks like a new ITN item is some 12 to 24 hours overdue, so, maybe it's time. Respectfully, Darkest Tree Talk 18:10, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

• Things don't get "pulled" just because they're not immediately new. They rotate off when newer items are posted. If you want something else to be posted, nominate it. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:22, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
  • It looks like a number of good candidate news items have been nominated at this point. It also looks like a rotation of ITN items is overdue. Again, my concern is that the above conflict, and the one taking place at the article in question, are detrimental to the encyclopedia project. Given the circumstances, I believe we should remove this article from ITN at this point. I thought this was the best place to express that opinion. I'm new to interacting with the Main Page, so I don't know what other steps I could take here—I don't want to just re-post nominations for other news items that are already nominated. Darkest Tree Talk 19:23, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
    • If you want to argue an article is so egregious on its own it has to be pulled you can do that. But there's no combination dinner "stale pork, pulled chicken". Articles stay up until they fall off the bottom of the ticker. μηδείς (talk) 22:03, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
      • I'm not trying to argue that the article itself is egregious, although I do think its GA status has now been called into question, which would differ from when it went up in ITN, I think. But, the point I'm trying to make is, it appears World War III has broken out on Misplaced Pages over Chelsea Manning. I'm saying that maybe, under these circumstances, an exception should be made to normal procedure, and this article should fall off of ITN now. I'm concerned that keeping it at the top of ITN (newer ITN items are now being posted below it) is among other things helping to drive traffic to the conflict. Witness the canvas tags on the article's talk page. Which is not beneficial to the encyclopedia. Darkest Tree Talk 23:01, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
        • ITN blurbs appear in the order they happened, newest at the top, not the order in which they gained consensus for posting. Recent deaths always appear on the bottom line of the template, starting with the most recent on the left. Canvassing is when a person is asked by another to comment in a discussion, it does not happen by people themselves finding the talk page of an article from a main page link. Finally, we do not require articles to be of any particular standard to be featured in the news and in any case the GA review was closed as premature (unless another has been opened?). In short I'm not seeing any reason why this needs to be pulled. Thryduulf (talk) 23:15, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
          • Support Pull - The name thing has become ridiculously controversial. Having the ITN blurb just seems to advertise that controversy. NickCT (talk) 00:14, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
            • Items are not pulled because they are controversial. --Jayron32 00:24, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
              • I am not even sure where this is 'controversial' in regards to policy, and I am a conservative opponent of most gender-related topics at ITN. μηδείς (talk) 01:56, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
                • @μηδείς - Not sure huh? I suggest you take a quick glance at the several pages worth of debate that's developed on this topic. Perhaps you'll understand a little better. @Jayron - Oh aren't they? Cite please. NickCT (talk) 04:12, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
                  • Please don't comment using my signature, NickCT. My user name: User:Medeis is fine per policy. As for the debate you reference, you'll need to link me to it if you want me to read it. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 04:19, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
                    • Talk:Chelsea Manning. Like, the whole entire talk page. Or check out WP:ERRORS. Or Talk:Main Page. Or WP:ANI. Or WP:VPP. Or, you know, right here. -- tariqabjotu 04:21, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Syrian gas attack

• Nominated by Sca (talk · give credit)

• Oppose. So far this is only a claim by the opposition, and the regime has denied it. The alleged attack is definitely not the worst since WW1, see Halabja poison gas attack. The UN weapons inspectors are there in Syria and if the attack is confirmed, then I'd support. Mohamed CJ (talk) 15:11, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose Agree with Mohamed CJ on this one. --Somchai Sun (talk) 15:15, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
• Clearly "if confirmed" are the critical words here. I think we should hold back until then. Also Syrian Civil War is a vast article. Is there a more specific one that could be linked? --LukeSurl 15:16, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Nominator's comment: Given the amount of attention this will generate, I would expect the reports to be confirmed or disproved quite soon. I stand corrected re Halabja poison gas attack. Sca (talk) 15:32, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

• Approve if modified to have a clearly verifiable fact: The United Nations Security Council holds an emergency meeting after an alleged attack in Damascus with chemical weapons killing over xxx people. L.tak (talk) 18:38, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Nominator's comment: Updated BBC story refers to "chemical weapons" rather than poison gas, but Reuters still speaks of "gassing hundreds of people." BBC asks people on the ground to contribute info with this appeal: Are you in Ghouta or do you have any family or friends in the area? Please share your experience with us using the form below. Sca (talk) 18:49, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Poison gas and chemical weapons are almost synonymous here (a dedicated poison gas/spray is by definition a chemical weapon, but the latter is the common term I believe...), but the "who has done it", "how exactly" (and even "when") is not likely to be resolved soon. It's war out there, which means none of the information should be relied upon directly; hence my security council proposal... L.tak (talk) 18:55, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

It's in the news, we have an article in decent shape here August_2013_Ghouta_chemical_attack - I've change the article linked above to that, it seems like 100 to 1500 people are dead with significant international ramifications. I can't help but support posting. EdwardLane (talk) 12:10, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

• Seeing the latest developments, it looks like efforts to try and confirm and efforts to prevent confirmation are also part of the story. August 2013 Ghouta chemical attack is shaping up to be a good article, and, if it can be kept reasonably neutral, I would support main page posting. --LukeSurl 13:18, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support. Yes, August 2013 Ghouta chemical attack seems a credible summary based on current reports. In view of footage of victims online and general global outrage, posting without unequivocal confirmation seems justified. Sca (talk) 14:20, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

PS: It's posted, without death toll, in French Wiki's Actualités et événements. Sca (talk) 14:30, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

PPS: Spiegel's English site says "Experts Attest to Use of Nerve Gas in Syria" —

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/experts-chemical-weapons-likely-used-in-syria-attacks-a-917965.html Sca (talk) 15:19, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support this is being widely reported, and not as a hoax. μηδείς (talk) 02:07, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
• I think this is ready. Please note that EdwardLane's and my bold supports are not nicely aligned to the left hand side and the two original opposes were quite early on in the development of the story. --LukeSurl 10:42, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

• I still stand by my oppose as I think unconfirmed attacks, especially when alleged by a party in the conflict should be given less attention. The example I recall is the alleged Tremseh massacre which ended up being Battle of Tremseh - I supported it, but we pulled it in less than 2 days (links: 1, 2 and Misplaced Pages:In_the_news/Candidates/July_2012#.5BPulled.5D_Turaymisah_massacre_in_Syria). However, this article as it stands currently is fine and reflects the situation. Mohamed CJ (talk) 13:16, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

• Support — Obama on Aug. 23 said the reports constitute "a big event of grave concern." Sca (talk) 15:38, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support - High death toll, a lot of media attention.--FutureTrillionaire (talk) 16:54, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
• Marked Ready this is updated and supported, but I have no opinion on a proper blurb. μηδείς (talk) 16:59, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
• Support/Blurb I think either the proposed or alternate blurb are fine. The alternate may be an overabundance of caution given all the news sources that are essentially confirming this event. Darkest Tree Talk 19:31, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
• Posted I basically posted the alternate blurb, but without "unconfirmed"; it already says reported anyway. -- tariqabjotu 20:24, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

At last! It's not clear to me whether Ghouta is considered part of Damascus or a suburban region of Damascus, but perhaps the blurb should say "in the Ghouta region of the Syrian capital, Damascus" — or words to that effect. Sca (talk) 20:37, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

It's not in Damascus; it's in Rif Dimashq (which means the countryside of Damascus). If you look at the map on Rif Dimashq, you see a hole in the center of the region; that is the city of Damascus. -- tariqabjotu 20:40, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, how about "near Damascus" or "outside Damascus"? I raise this question because Damascus is widely known in the English-speaking world whereas Ghouta isn't — not yet, anyway. Sca (talk) 22:02, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

August 20

Portal:Current events/2013 August 20

August 20, 2013 (2013-08-20) (Tuesday) edit history watch Attacks and conflicts Insurgency in the North Caucasus: Russian police kill nine suspected Islamist militants in the North Caucasus region. (Reuters) Narendra Dabholkar, a rationalist from India, is assassinated while out walking. (The Hindu) Disasters and accidents The Whakaari / White Island volcano in the Bay of Plenty off New Zealand's North Island erupts. (Radio New Zealand) International relations Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan accuses American and Israeli influence of being the ouster of Egypt’s President Mohammed Morsi; which are denied by both. (The Washington Post) (The Times of Israel) Law and crime Three male youths are implicated in the murder of Australian baseball player Chris Lane in Duncan, Oklahoma. (news.com.au) A Pakistani court indicts former President Pervez Musharraf for his alleged involvement in the 2007 assassination of former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. (Washington Post) Six gunshots are fired from an AK-47 at an elementary school in Decatur, Georgia, U.S. No one was injured, and premises were evacuated. Suspected gunman, a 20-year-old man arrested. (CNN) Alan Rusbridger, the editor of The Guardian, reveals that the British authorities forced the newspaper to destroy computer hard disk drives containing material leaked by Edward Snowden. (BBC) (The Guardian) Egyptian authorities arrest Muhammad Badie, the Supreme Guide of the Muslim Brotherhood, in Cairo. Mahmoud Ezzat, deputy leader of the Brotherhood, becomes temporarily the new Supreme Guide. (BBC) Politics United States Senator Ted Cruz of Texas announces that he wants to renounce his Canadian citizenship, fueling speculation about a presidential run in 2016. (Washington Post) RD : Narendra Dabholkar Article: Narendra Dabholkar (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) Alternative blurb: ​ Rationalist campaigner Narendra Dabholkar is assassinated in Maharashtra, India. News source(s): The Guardian Credits: Nominated by 42.107.175.154 (talk · give credit) Updated by Abhijeet Safai (talk · give credit) Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD. Hold: I sense that more would come out on the topic and i guess we can wait till then. As of now, the death is covered sufficiently, but the aftermath in politics and common public is yet to come out and be written about. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 18:39, 20 August 2013 (UTC) This was an assassination/murder rather than a natural death. As the death itself is the story (rather than an obituary piece) we should be considering blurbs. --LukeSurl 18:58, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Would support this as a blurb rather than RD. Maybe the article could be fleshed out a little first, though. Formerip (talk) 20:00, 20 August 2013 (UTC) How important is rationalism as a movement in India? Spencer 03:31, 21 August 2013 (UTC) I'm not sure how to get an answer to that. Important enough to get you killed, maybe? The story seems to be leading in today's Indian press, though: Formerip (talk) 09:25, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Same here. I have been thinking for a while on how to answer this. Frankly speaking he wasn't someone who appeared daily in news; at least not in recent 2-3 years. But he started his activism in 1980s and that's when he must have created enough ripples. The fact does remain that his assassination has been covered as headline in various newspapers, both regional and national. The city of Pune remained bandh today, although not very strictly. But auto rickshaws stayed away from road from 10am to 5pm. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 12:18, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Strong support - As said earlier, killing a person who used non violent means is a news in itself. And world must know about it. Thanks. --Abhijeet Safai (talk) 08:44, 21 August 2013 (UTC) There may be other reasons to post this, but using Misplaced Pages just to publicize an event is not one of them. 331dot (talk) 09:32, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Dear 331dot, Thanks for the comment. My duty was to bring the issue to the notice of experienced editors and I guess I have done that. I leave the issue now to the wisdom of the community. He worked in his life to fight against blind faith. He was one of the most important figures in India who are working in this direction. There are very great editors and I am sure that they are reading this. I request them to take the decision as what they think is right. Thanks for listening. -- Abhijeet Safai (talk) 12:13, 21 August 2013 (UTC) strong oppose per aboe. WP does not run media campaigns to highlight POVs. He was not known and nor is his death features in international ,edia. Should be an easy oppose considering the hordes we turn down (and approve)Lihaas (talk) 14:02, 21 August 2013 (UTC) I'm not sure which is worse: supporting something because you personally feel it is important or opposing something because somebody else feels it is important. Formerip (talk) 15:21, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Support His death has also received some global coverage, for example see The Guardian and BBC. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 14:10, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Also, Australia Alanscottwalker (talk) 02:11, 22 August 2013 (UTC) and United States Alanscottwalker (talk) 13:07, 22 August 2013 (UTC) Comment As per given references, it is very clear that he was very important person. Now the question that remains is - are we supporting him or opposing him. Though we support or we oppose, we cannot neglect him. And I would like to state that people who are opposing are trying to oppose his thoughts. -- Abhijeet Safai (talk) 10:55, 22 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose per Lihaas. μηδείς (talk) 18:18, 22 August 2013 (UTC) Recent Deaths: Elmore Leonard Article: Elmore Leonard (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) Credits: Nominated by PublicAmpersand (talk · give credit) Updated by medeis (talk · give credit) Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Highly influential writer. Being described by the New York Times as a "Novelist Who Elevated the Status of Crime Thrillers", and they haven't even posted an obit yet. Not much to update, and the article does a pretty good job explaining his legacy.  — PublicAmpers& 14:30, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Times obit up now. "Secured his status as a modern master of American genre writing", "reinventing for a new generation and elevating it to a higher literary shelf", etc. Think that should satisfy criterion 2. — PublicAmpers& 14:36, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support RD, a well known writer, the article is updated. --Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 14:41, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support Based on the number of his novels that was adapted into blockbuster films. Donnie Park (talk) 15:08, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support Got to -- I've read probably thirty of his novels. Looie496 (talk) 15:22, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Article needs work - there are many short choppy "paragraphs", several bare url citations, and the article is somewhat short in general. The update is pretty minimal. --ThaddeusB (talk) 15:31, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support Notable in his field. --Somchai Sun (talk) 15:51, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support for blurb I personally think he's one of the few deaths that is acually blurb worthy, he was one of the top authors of the 20th century especially in the crime/thriller genrue, and paved way to countless authors who are still writing today Tom Clancy, James Patterson, and so forth and won the National Book Award for Distinguished Contribution which is pretty much the top legacy award given to an author outside the Nobel Prize. Secret 16:42, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support for RD certainly meets the death criteria. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:44, 20 August 2013 (UTC) support per RD criteria--Johnsemlak (talk) 21:08, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support RD, oppose blurb Given the awards and tributes, seems to qualify for RD. I don't think he's close to the blurb level, though, and I would have to dispute the statement that the National Book Award for Distinguished Contribution is "the top legacy award given to an author outside the Nobel Prize." It's only open to Americans, for one thing, and I would have said that the Neustadt International Prize for Literature, to give just one example, was certainly more prestigious internationally. Neljack (talk) 23:36, 20 August 2013 (UTC) The Man Booker International Prize is another example of a more prestigious award for an overall body of work. Neljack (talk) 05:05, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Comment. As far as I can see, the only thing holding this from getting posted is the article; two of its sections have orange tags. Mohamed CJ (talk) 15:38, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Comment It's ridiculous that this hasn't been posted yet. Looie496 (talk) 18:28, 21 August 2013 (UTC) What's ridiculous is that people complain about things not being posted w/o making any attempt to improve the article. At current the career section is all of two short paragraphs, one of which is uncited. The early life section is also almost completely unreferenced. The adaptations section is unreferenced and full of short choppy paragraphs. Two of his five awards are unreferenced. The article is in violation of BLP at current (which applies to recently deceased people too) as too much material is unreferenced. I stand by my assessment that the article is not up to quality standards despite Medeis removing the issue tags w/o actually addressing the problems.--ThaddeusB (talk) 19:12, 21 August 2013 (UTC) (edit conflict) Also the death update is rather weak --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:20, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Removing "ready" tags again based on that sound logic. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:15, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Yes, "he was 85", is weak, but the section is technically updated. If we are going to get down to aesthetics, then the people who express dissatisfaction would do well to make the improvements they want themselves. μηδείς (talk) 19:47, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Ready, all tags have been addressed, collapsed or removed. μηδείς (talk) 04:19, 22 August 2013 (UTC) While all tags have indeed been removed (and many of the citation needed tags were actually fixed instead of just removed as "unnecessary"), some were not actually addressed. For example, I hardly consider commenting out a perfect valid {{expand section}} tag in the career section with the rational "non-essential tag" to be an article improvement. I don't know why it is so hard to write more than 6 sentences (and reference more than 1 of those 6!) on a career that spanned 60 years. Apparently nothing notable happened in his career after 1960!?!? I won't edit war to restore the tag, but I consider it pathetic that much of ITN (apparently) rather try to force an article through in a so-so state because they like the guy rather than actually work on adding content to the encyclopedia. (And no it is not my job to fix the article because I object to its quality.) --ThaddeusB (talk) 05:53, 22 August 2013 (UTC) TLDNR. Leave on my talk if important. μηδείς (talk) 07:03, 22 August 2013 (UTC) Support RD, oppose blurb - This is a compromise. Article is on the thin side per Thaddeus but I think if some of his objections were posted to the talk page the issues would be dealt with. Let's run it before it goes wholly stale. Jusdafax 19:01, 22 August 2013 (UTC) Please Post unless there's some other problem not visible this is ready to go. μηδείς (talk) 18:25, 23 August 2013 (UTC) Posted -- tariqabjotu 20:09, 23 August 2013 (UTC) Very few of my concerns were actually addressed, instead they just hidden or declared invalid by Medeis. However, I am fine with the posting since the consensus seemed to be was was just barely "good enough" given Leonard's high importance. --ThaddeusB (talk) 22:23, 23 August 2013 (UTC) I (mildly, don't get me wrong) resent the accusations of having pushed this through for liking the man. I haven't read a single one of his books, and have seen only "Be Cool" (which he criticized) and perhaps half a season of Justified, which holds my attention, but by no means thrills me or makes me want to try reading him. I only got involved after 24 hours of this not going up because any objective judgment of him from a critic or fan viewpoint required he be posted on the merits. Neither is there anything wrong with collapsing or deleting unsupported material. If anyone is going to expand the article, it should be a fan who knows his work who wants to put in the unpaid effort. μηδείς (talk) 22:34, 23 August 2013 (UTC) For the record, the pushing it through for liking the guy comment was directed at no one in particular. --ThaddeusB (talk) 23:12, 23 August 2013 (UTC) August 19 Portal:Current events/2013 August 19 August 19, 2013 (2013-08-19) (Monday) edit history watch Armed conflicts and attacks Sinai insurgency: At least 24 Egyptian policemen are killed in an attack near Rafah in the Sinai peninsula. (BBC) (Reuters) Business and economy An agrarian strike is planned for today in Colombia to demand labor rights. (Voice of Russia) Disasters and accidents A train accident in India kills at least 37 pilgrims and injures over a dozen. (The Times of India) (BBC) (Reuters) Torrential rain and floods in north-east China, together with Typhoon Utor-triggered floods in southern China, jointly result in at least 91 people dead and 111 missing. (BBC) The 500th eruption this year of Mount Sakurajima in Southern Japan covers the major city of Kagoshima in a cloud of ash. (BBC) A B-1B Lancer with the United States Air Force's 28th Bomb Wing crashes near Broadus, Montana during a routine training mission. (USAF) International relations Russia and Japan begin discussing the main starting points and modality of the upcoming talks on a peace treaty. (ITAR-TASS) The British warship HMS Westminster arrives in Gibraltar amid tensions with Spain. (Reuters) Law and crime South African track star Oscar Pistorius is officially charged with the murder of his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, at his home earlier this year, with the trial due to start on March 13. (Voice of America) The first same-sex marriages take place in New Zealand, following the passage of the Marriage Equality Bill in April. (BBC) Politics and election Attorney general Mohammad Ishaq Aloko is fired by Afghan President Hamid Karzai, over an unsanctioned meeting with Taliban peace negotiators in the United Arab Emirates. (Reuters via Yahoo!) Iranian coup d'état (60 years ago, but this just coming in) Article: 1953 Iranian coup d'état (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ The CIA acknowledges its role in organizing the 1953 Iranian coup d'état for the first time. (Post) News source(s): Credits: Nominated by FormerIP (talk · give credit) Updated by Harel (talk · give credit) and Mohamed CJ (talk · give credit) Article updated Formerip (talk) 23:40, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Weak oppose. I could understand posting this, but personally I think they're just admitting what everyone knew already. 331dot (talk) 00:15, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support-This is a meaningful admission of unwarranted interference within another nation's affairs. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 01:03, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose the fact the CIA hadn't admitted it didn't mean it wasn't known. μηδείς (talk) 01:12, 20 August 2013 (UTC) I find affirmation of putative fact to be noteworthy, when the fact in question itself is noteworthy. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 01:24, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support, it is a notable confirmation.Egeymi (talk) 05:36, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support, notable correction of history. Been a topic of US presidential debates and influential in US foreign politics in the region. Somewhat akin to admitting there was no WMD after all. Regards, Sun Creator 09:04, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support Sun Creator's missing WMD is a good analogy. Thue (talk) 10:23, 20 August 2013 (UTC) oppose its been known and it has no lasting effect. (the admission). IF Iran steps up some measure based on thisS THEN we can consider postingLihaas (talk) 12:08, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Comment - We need to avoid letting POV creep in here; there is undue and misleading influence on the nomination. Some of the opposes of "everybody knew this already" cannot be proven to be true, just because we surround ourselves with people who share similar opinions. The CIA's statement should serve to remove all doubt, not to merely affirm what basically amounts to conjecture. WaltCip (talk) 13:50, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Letting precisely what POV creep in here? This is a 60 year-old story, all the principals are dead. μηδείς (talk) 17:39, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Comment - Update is 2 sentences (in the lead only) at current. --ThaddeusB (talk) 15:33, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support. The fact that this took them 60 years to acknowledge it is noteworthy. According to the BBC Arabic radio, American historians documented all of the details of this case, but due to MI6 pressure, this publishing the results was detailed several years. Mohamed CJ (talk) 15:53, 20 August 2013 (UTC) I've added a 3-line paragraph at the end of "The coup and CIA records" section. I think this and the lead updates are sufficient and have marked the article updated. Mohamed CJ (talk) 17:13, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose - mostly due to the limited scope of the update (which is as it should be), but also because I agree that the admission is unlikely to have lasting consequences. --ThaddeusB (talk) 19:00, 20 August 2013 (UTC) support. This is a major admission of strong symbolic importance. There are many things that 'everybody knows'.that are denied by official sources. I strongly question how anybody can assert this will have no lasting consequences. Certainly, one can only speculate about the future. But this could become the starting point of an improvement in Iran-United States relations, particularly if Iran becomes controlled by a more moderate government. --Johnsemlak (talk) 21:23, 20 August 2013 (UTC) It WASNT an admission. It was a coerced release by the RTI with CIA ressitance.Lihaas (talk) 23:37, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Even if they were pressured it was still an admission. The source you cited says it was the 'CIA's first formal acknowledgement'; it goes on to say that "The 1953 coup remains a topic of global interest." Just about everything that article states strengthens the notability of this nomination.--Johnsemlak (talk) 00:33, 21 August 2013 (UTC) The update requirement is not fulfilled; while there have been recent updates to the article as a whole, there is only a one-sentence update on the CIA story. μηδείς (talk) 00:46, 21 August 2013 (UTC) I'm sure this is longer than one sentence. In lead: In August 2013 the CIA formally admitted that it was involved in both the planning and the execution of the coup, including the bribing of Iranian politicians, security and army high-ranking officials, as well as pro-coup propaganda. The CIA is quoted acknowledging the coup was carried out "under CIA direction" and "as an act of U.S. foreign policy, conceived and approved at the highest levels of government.". In The coup and CIA records section: In August 2013, at the sixtieth anniversary of the coup, the CIA released documents showing they have been involved in staging the coup. The documents also describe the motivations behind the coup and the strategies used to stage it. The documents also showed that the UK tried to censor information regarding its role in the coup. The Foreign Office said "it could neither confirm nor deny Britain's involvement in the coup". Many CIA documents about the coup were still classified.. Mohamed CJ (talk) 04:49, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Support - Fascinating admission of interest world wide. Someone needs to do a bit of updating to get this posted. Can't be me, other matters compel my time. Jusdafax 03:49, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Support. Major admission, good article, encyclopaedic development. The coup itself has had major effects, and regardless of the widespread suspicions the involvement of the CIA is unlikely to be widely known to readers, at least until they read our article. Modest Genius 12:18, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Updated. I have re-marked the article as updated. Since I've !voted above, I'd rather not mark it as ready myself. Mohamed CJ (talk) 15:34, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Posted. Spencer 06:09, 22 August 2013 (UTC) 2013 China–Russia floods Article: 2013 China–Russia floods (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Flooding in northeastern China and eastern Russia kills at least 85 people. (Post) News source(s): Xinhua Daily Telegraph Times of India Credits: Updated and nominated by ThaddeusB (talk · give credit) Article updatedNominator's comments: Significant death toll. Worst flood in "several decades" (China) or "a century" (Russia) in the affected areas. --ThaddeusB (talk) 17:49, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Leaning support, presuming corroboration from non-native media sources that these floods are as exceptional as being claimed, and presuming further development of the article, (as noted by the nominator). —WFC— FL wishlist 17:56, 19 August 2013 (UTC) BBC, AP Oppose. The Chinese flood we posted a few weeks ago was also reported as historical in scale. It's very sad, but it's monsoon season. Formerip (talk) 19:50, 19 August 2013 (UTC) The other one was in a completely different part of China, so both can honestly be said to be the worst in a long time for the region - if China was smaller, we would be talking about two different countries... It has been a bad year for floods globally, but IMO, that should not affect our evaluation of a given flood. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:54, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Support. Major disaster with high death toll. Article is updated. -Zanhe (talk) 20:48, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Comment. Apparently floods are everywhere: Pakistan & Afghanistan, Sudan, Philippines and Yemen. Mohamed CJ (talk) 21:20, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Weak support because this involves more than one nation. 331dot (talk) 21:21, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose not that unusual, unfortunately. μηδείς (talk) 21:23, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Death toll is up to 85, article is updated. --ThaddeusB (talk) 21:48, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Support Clearly a major disaster. Agree with Thaddeus's comments above in reply to FormerIP. Neljack (talk) 22:52, 19 August 2013 (UTC) support p per precedence ...though would also support re-evaulting where these should be poste.d Weather incidetns and man-made disasters are very commonLihaas (talk) 12:09, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Posted. Spencer 19:18, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Indian train accident Article: Dhamara Ghat train accident (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ At least 37 Hindu pilgrims are killed after being hit by an train while crossing the tracks near a train station in the state of Bihar, India. (Post) News source(s): New York Times Credits: Nominated by Eugen Simion 14 (talk · give credit)  EugεnS¡m¡on(14) ® 14:44, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose I dont see this article getting any better. Not much development will happen here since its just too common for people to get killed crossing tracks in India (perhaps not 37 at same time). can change my position if article improves -- Ashish-g55 15:09, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Article has got much better since your comment. -Zanhe (talk) 16:30, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support if article is improved. This is on the front page everywhere. 37 deaths is a big deal. -Zanhe (talk) 15:51, 19 August 2013 (UTC) oppose its not notable as anything thatn NOTNEWS. It ought not to be an encyopaedic article as it has ZERO impact on anythingLihaas (talk) 15:58, 19 August 2013 (UTC) I'm not sure "zero impact on anything" is the phrase I would have picked. Formerip (talk) 16:00, 19 August 2013 (UTC) That's an interesting comment from a long-time ITN contributor. Almost all major train accidents have their own articles and they are regularly featured on ITN. -Zanhe (talk) 16:50, 19 August 2013 (UTC) oppose for now. The interesting factor is the aftermath which per the NYTimes involved a mob dragging the driver out and beating him up and setting fire to the train after the incident. But if that's the extent of the violence, it pretty much is a non-story, and thus not ITN-worthy (or article worthy). --MASEM (t) 16:56, 19 August 2013 (UTC) The similar Castelldefels train accident was posted on ITN with only 12 deaths. -Zanhe (talk) 16:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC) I dont think these accidents are as common in Spain as they are in India which increases notability. In any case the incident as it stands falls under WP:NOTNEWS in my opinion and unless some more developments take place, should not go up on ITN -- Ashish-g55 17:19, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose encyclopedia, not newspaper. μηδείς (talk) 17:24, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Remember this section is called "In the News". If we don't even post major accidents or disasters like this, we may as well cancel the ITN section altogether. -Zanhe (talk) 20:41, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Remember this is an encyclopedia, and we use ITN to feature good articles of long-term interest, not the daily deathcount. μηδείς (talk) 01:14, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Daily death count? This is the worst train accident in India in the whole year and one of the worst in the world. IMHO major accidents like this have far more long-term interest than most of the sport events that we regularly post. -Zanhe (talk) 19:26, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Comment - I certainly think the subject is notable enough for an article (angry mob, contentious debate in congress), but our article would need significantly expanded before I can evaluate it. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Support subject to update As Thaddeus notes, there are circumstances beyond the number killed that makes this notable, so I hope those who complain that we focus too much on the death toll will support this. Neljack (talk) 22:56, 19 August 2013 (UTC) It's two sentences long. Abductive (reasoning) 01:02, 20 August 2013 (UTC) It's been expanded. -Zanhe (talk) 16:30, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Hosni Mubarak Article: Hosni Mubarak (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Egyptian Ex-President Hosni Mubarak is freed from prison (Post) Alternative blurb: ​ Egyptian Ex-President Hosni Mubarak is ordered to be freed from prison News source(s): Sky News NBC News Credits: Nominated by Abductive (talk · give credit) Nominator's comments: Things are moving in Egypt. The release of a drug kingpin was posted, this is on altogether a higher level. --Abductive (reasoning) 13:23, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Comment - He was not released from prison. Could be out in 2 days if he will be released at all. He will still be in trial for the 850+ deaths.   – HonorTheKing (talk) 13:56, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Comment I assume you're referring to the release of Rafael Caro Quintero; that was not posted. -- tariqabjotu 14:08, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose per HTK; he is not out yet and might not be given the other charges he has. 331dot (talk) 14:10, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose. A lawyer predicting that his client will walk free from court is not news. Formerip (talk) 16:01, 19 August 2013 (UTC) This lawyer likes to get media attention, he said before that Mubarak was dead. Oppose. Mohamed CJ (talk) 21:14, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose for now, since it was not an official announcement. But, it will be soon.Egeymi (talk) 21:10, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose for now. Support when it actually happens. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 21:24, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Released he's been released to home arrest pending retrial and is currently being treated at a military hospital. μηδείς (talk) 18:14, 22 August 2013 (UTC) Entry into force of the Maritime Labour Convention Articles: Maritime Labour Convention (talk · history · tag) and International Labour Organization (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ The Maritime Labour Convention enters into force replacing 37 Labour conventions of the International Labour Organization (Post) Alternative blurb: ​ The Maritime Labour Convention enters into force governing labour conditions on over half of the world's large ships(/larger ships/ships over 500 tonnes) News source(s): see article; www.ilo.org (which has it all on their main page) Additional info added on 20 August: It is covered by quite some decent sources now: e.g. Die Welt, CNBC has a press release posted and Neue Zürcher Zeitung has an article Credits: Updated and nominated by L.tak (talk · give credit) Article updatedNominator's comments: The date of entry into force is the "newsy" event. For ILO, this event is a big one, as it is not a standard convention, as it consolidates many conventions; and as the parties cover (as flag states) over half of the big ships, which have to comply from tomorrow on... (note: I know: I am a major contributor to this article, so I might be a bit biased; I tehrefore will not take part in the discussion; except to clarify upon request...) --L.tak (talk) 08:45, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Support Obvious international significance. Thue (talk) 13:23, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose I haven't seen any trace of coverage of this story in any news site I frequent. --LukeSurl 13:53, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose. Not seeing this covered in the news, which is a prerequisite for a posting on "In the News". 331dot (talk) 14:13, 19 August 2013 (UTC) support lasting impace.Lihaas (talk) 15:59, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Comment: as far as I can tell this is just a codification of existing maritime law into one convention, not actually introducing any new practices. If so, I don't think there's enough news here to justify an ITN posting. Or maybe I've missed something? Modest Genius 12:24, 21 August 2013 (UTC) I see where you are coming from and I think materially not many new norms are introduced. Grouping them in 1 convention is however for two reasons significant: i) the membership of previous conventions was variable, with some with very high and very low membership. Getting it into one convention gets more countries to introduce the same norms; and for most extensive implementation legislation was needed for those things they didn't subscribe to yet. Especially since most of the significant flags of convenience have signed up to this, this literally means that 75% (2014) or 50% (now) have to comply. That is for a maritime labour convention a lot! ii) The compliance mechanism is new. Every ship has to apply that comes to a harbor of a state party and every ship that flies the flag of a party has to comply. In practice, that means that virtually every ship in the word has to comply (the US is as a non state party doing MLC-inspections so its ships can show they comply).... That's the reason I saw enough relevance for ITN.. L.tak (talk) 13:39, 21 August 2013 (UTC) Hmm, OK, so there is a bit more to it, in that it effectively means the accession of many new countries to the previous conventions. However, that information needs to appear in the article, and even then I'm not fully convinced. I won't oppose though. Modest Genius 22:04, 22 August 2013 (UTC) Recent Deaths: Dezso Gyarmati Article: Dezso Gyarmati (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) Alternative blurb: ​ Dezső Gyarmati, one of the greatest Water polo players of all time, dies at the age of eighty-five. News source(s): Times of India Boxscore Global Times Credits: Nominated by Andise1 (talk · give credit) Updated by Neljack (talk · give credit) Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: From the article about him: "Gyarmati was the most successful water polo player in the Olympic history, and is considered the greatest water polo player of all time." I suggested a blurb as well as Dezso Gyarmati "was widely regarded as a very important figure in his or her field." Andise1 (talk) 04:41, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Support RD pending update - The most decorated water polo player in Olympic history certainly meets the notability requirements. Article is a bit thin and doesn't have a sufficient death update yet. --ThaddeusB (talk) 04:51, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Support pending update. As per ThaddeusB. – Connormah (talk) 04:59, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Support RD The evidence indicates that he is widely regarded as one of greatest, if not the greatest, water polo player in history. Not quite blurb level though. Neljack (talk) 05:50, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose - Water polo is waaaay too much of a niche sport, and I don't consider his proficiency in that sport to be an automatic free pass to the main page. Gyarmati himself is largely an unknown, and his passing would probably be of interest to only a tiny, almost insignificant percentage of our readership - his article's daily average pageviews were in the single digits before his death. --Bongwarrior (talk) 06:06, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Water polo may not be a big sport where you are from, but it is in some places - it's huge in the Balkans, big in much of continental Europe and growing in the US. It's an Olympic sport too. I doubt Gyarmati is an unknown in Hungary or other countries where water polo is big and I think many people who haven't heard of him would be interested to read about his remarkable career. In any case, this is person is clearly "widely regarded as a very important figure in his field" and that is all that is required. Neljack (talk) 07:12, 19 August 2013 (UTC) I'm not disputing that he was at the top of his field, but there seems to be some sentiment that we are obligated to post this because he meets the death criteria. We can (and do) decline to post individuals whose field wasn't sufficiently important, which I believe is the case here. Quick, name the second-greatest water polo player ever. See? --Bongwarrior (talk) 14:49, 19 August 2013 (UTC) You are certainly entitled to your beliefs, but others have the opposite beliefs. What you see as unimportant is seen as very important by others. We are not "obligated" to post anything that meets the criteria just for the sake of doing so, but we are obligated to post something that meets the criteria and gains sufficient support. 331dot (talk) 15:38, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Probably Aleksandar Šapić. Neljack (talk) 20:55, 19 August 2013 (UTC) His death was reported in multiple languages throughout the world, which suggests he wasn't a nobody playing unimportant sport. --Vejvančický (talk / contribs) 14:49, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Article is light and under-referenced at the current time. There are no references in either of the Coach career, Political career nor Family sections. --LukeSurl 07:39, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Article sufficiently updated and referenced. Support RD as per nom. --LukeSurl 10:36, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Support RD only pending update. A long successful career with several medals would seem to suggest he is very important in his sport, but article needs to be expanded. 331dot (talk) 11:37, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Support RD only per 331dot, article needs some work (only 2kb prose when I clicked on it), but five Olympic medals (three gold) plus the International Swimming HOF indicate sufficient importance in his field. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:00, 19 August 2013 (UTC) oppose too narrow to amount to actual notability. μηδείς (talk) 17:27, 19 August 2013 (UTC) I think Medeis may have misspoken - notability is clear - just for 5 olympic medals. I presume he's asking if water polo is a mainstream sport - so that enough people might want to look for the article - maybe. This chap was part of the 'blood in the water' match between hungary and russia, and his article whilst only a C or maybe B class article links to some interesting politics too. The article is certainly in better shape than some that get posted - if it does get an RD nomination it will get improved. So I think a support for RD is warranted, and I think it's probably ready/close to ready. EdwardLane (talk) 08:55, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Marking as ready The article has been updated, expanded and referenced; consensus seems clear. Neljack (talk) 12:14, 20 August 2013 (UTC) It shouldn't go up with bare url's. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:54, 20 August 2013 (UTC) I just fixed those with WP:Reflinks --LukeSurl 15:02, 20 August 2013 (UTC) Posted -- tariqabjotu 20:47, 20 August 2013 (UTC) August 18 Portal:Current events/2013 August 18 August 18, 2013 (2013-08-18) (Sunday) edit history watch Armed conflicts and attacks Syrian civil war A team of twenty UN weapons inspectors arrives in the capital, Damascus, to investigate the alleged use of chemical weapons in the conflict. (BBC) Political violence in Egypt: Israel to call on US, EU to support Egyptian army (Haaretz), (New York Times) Dozens of Muslim Brotherhood supporters are killed in prison while attempting to escape police custody. (Reuters), (Al Jazeera) Six people are injured in a bomb explosion on a bus in the eastern Indian state of West Bengal. (Deccan Herald) Arts and Culture Chiribiquete National Park, in Colombia, is expanded from its previous 1.2 Million Hectares to 3 Million Hectares becoming one of the largest protected zones in the Amazon. This announcement was made by the Colombian government after Ecuador decided to open up Yasuni National Park to oil drilling after a six year initiative to protect the rain forest. Law and crime Bo Xilai, a former member of Politburo of the Communist Party of China, charged with bribery and corruption, will go on trial on August 22 in the city of Jinan. (BBC) The lawyer of two Norwegians who have been imprisoned in the Congo since 2009 says one of the two, Tjostolv Moland, is found dead in his prison cell. (Business Week) (NRK) Marich Man Singh Shrestha Article: Marich Man Singh Shrestha (talk · history · tag) Recent deaths nomination (Post) Credits: Nominated by Lihaas (talk · give credit) Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Former prime minister of a soverieng state. We usually post these. Lihaas (talk) 08:31, 18 August 2013 (UTC) I agree the death meets our notability criteria. The update is not sufficient as it contains completely unnotable aspects of his death.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:28, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Support upon adequate update. 331dot (talk) 12:21, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Support pending expansion When I clicked on it, article was a stub with ~1200 characters of prose. – Muboshgu (talk) 15:11, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose not a sitting politician, not significant influence in any field. μηδείς (talk) 20:58, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Comment Impossible to judge whether he meets the criteria without more information on his political career - the article's coverage is very limited. Neljack (talk) 21:18, 18 August 2013 (UTC) 2013 World Championships in Athletics Article: 2013 World Championships in Athletics (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ In athletics, the World Championships conclude. (Post) Alternative blurb: ​ In athletics, the World Championships in Moscow conclude with Russia winning most gold medals. Credits: Nominated by HonorTheKing (talk · give credit) Updated by ThaddeusB (talk · give credit) and Kiril Simeonovski (talk · give credit) Article updatedNominator's comments: World Championship, Biggest competition since the Olympics.    – HonorTheKing (talk) 01:00, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Comment - The event won't be over for another 18 hours or so. The article will need a substantial prose update - most likely a summary of the most notable happenings. (I'm willing to write the update if needed and am open to suggestions on what the update should include.) --ThaddeusB (talk) 01:18, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Support when the championships officially end. I'd also like to propose mentioning the most successful nation of the championships instead of the total number of nations winning at least one medal.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 08:04, 18 August 2013 (UTC) support and it should be ITNR.Lihaas (talk) 08:37, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Sorry to pip you to the post but it was nominated when the games began but its still not too late to nominate. Donnie Park (talk) 13:13, 18 August 2013 (UTC) If you feel that way, propose it. 331dot (talk) 12:22, 18 August 2013 (UTC) It has already been proposed. Neljack (talk) 21:15, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Support Notable sporting event, and agree with the suggestion above about ITN/R.--Somchai Sun (talk) 10:00, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Support - when officially finished.--BabbaQ (talk) 10:08, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose amy mention of specific medal winners or nations; support first blurb--maybe mention the host city.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:15, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Why not when we did it two weeks ago with the conclusion of the World Aquatics Championships in Barcelona?--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 15:08, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Support. The blurb should include a location. Formerip (talk) 11:29, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Support. But would we be better for a blurb to do with who tops the medal table, it look like a tight race between the old Cold War rivals. Please also support my proposal to get both World Aquatics Championships and World Championships in Athletics included in ITN/R. Donnie Park (talk) 13:13, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Proposed alternative blurb. In athletics, Russia (or United States) tops the medals table at the World Championships It's over. Russia is the most successful nation with 7 gold medals won.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:51, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Ready The article looks updated with enough prose for posting.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 19:37, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Yep, I just finished updating it with prose on many of the most notable happenings. Altblurb is preferable I think. --ThaddeusB (talk) 20:32, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Support Major international competition. Agree altblurb is preferable. Neljack (talk) 21:15, 18 August 2013 (UTC) There are a lot of images we could use if we wanted to. --LukeSurl 21:17, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Posted -- tariqabjotu 22:03, 18 August 2013 (UTC) August 17 Portal:Current events/2013 August 17 August 17, 2013 (2013-08-17) (Saturday) edit history watch Armed conflicts and attacks Mexican Drug War: Gulf Cartel leader Mario Ramírez Treviño is arrested in the state of Tamaulipas. (Reuters) Political violence in Egypt: Egyptian security forces clear a Cairo mosque after a long stand-off with the Muslim Brotherhood. (Reuters), (BBC) Egyptian Prime Minister Hazem Al Beblawi proposes the legal dissolution of the Muslim Brotherhood. (Reuters) Syrian civil war: Syrian rebels attack a militia checkpoint in Homs, killing 5 from the NDF militia but 6 civilians nearby as well. (Reuters) A Syrian government warplane attack in Aleppo leaves at least 15 civilians dead. (New York Times) Nigerian Sharia conflict: Clashes between Nigerian soldiers and Boko Haram Islamists kill 18 people in northeast Nigeria. (Reuters) War in Afghanistan (2001–2021) 10 people are killed in a camp by insurgents in western Afghanistan. (BBC) Business and economy The Indian rupee hits new record low against the US dollar. The rupee fell to 62.85 rupees against the dollar. (Reuters) Disasters and accidents Residents evacuated from Greenhorn Gulch area in Idaho from the Beaver Creek fire. (CNN) 31 people dead and at least 170 are missing as a ferry sinks after colliding with a cargo ship in Philippines.(BBC) A wildfire erupts near Yosemite National Park, growing to 25 square miles (~65 square kilometers) overnight.(KTVU) Law and crime While they are not yet ready to say they are reopening the case after the 2008 inquiry jury's final verdict and report (faulty driving and unlawful killing), the Metropolitan Police Authority Specialist Crime and Operations Command in London is investigating the credibility and accuracy of supposedly new information from an unspecified source regarding the August 1997 Death of Diana, Princess of Wales. (NBC) Mexican drug kingpin arrested Article: Mario Ramírez Treviño (talk · history · tag) Blurb: ​ Alleged Gulf Cartel leader Mario Ramírez Treviño is arrested in the state of Tamaulipas. (Post) News source(s): Huffington Post El Universal NBC News BBC News Le Monde ABC News(Australia) Times of India Credits: Nominated by ComputerJA (talk · give credit) Nominator's comments: This might be a far reach, considering that we had another Mexican drug lord posted on the Main Page about a month ago (see: Miguel Treviño Morales). Nonetheless, the arrest of this man marks another major episode in the Mexican Drug War and is a huge blow for the Gulf Cartel. The arrest section needs to be updated a little bit more, but that can be fixed as more sources start to pop up. --ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 00:47, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose Regardless of the farce of posting a similar story every other week, Mexicans are subject to the benefit of the doubt in criminal proceedings no less than South African double amputees and former governors of New Jersey. μηδείς (talk) 01:15, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Whether he is innocent or guilty shouldn't be the focus of supporting/opposing this nomination, I think. I nominated the article for the significance of the arrest for both the U.S. and Mexico. Just added the word "alleged" to the blurb to address your concern. Thanks for your input. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 01:31, 18 August 2013 (UTC) So the arrest is important whether he is innocent or guilty? μηδείς (talk) 18:49, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Yes. This case is likely not going to be resolved this week, this month, or even this year. It's in the news now. No judgments are being made about his guilt or innocence. Per the ITN criteria I cite below it is not unreasonable to post this. 331dot (talk) 23:35, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Weak support. I'm sensitive to the concern that we might post a Mexican drug lord every week- but we do post the arrest of notable fugitives or wanted criminal suspects, and this man had a $5 million bounty on him from the US. 331dot (talk) 02:58, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Oppose We rarely post arrests, preferring to wait for convictions, and I think that is a sound practice which should be followed in this case. Neljack (talk) 03:20, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Understood, though it would seem that the world media does not hold the same view (this is news in France, UK, US, Australia, India). The first two listed ITN criteria are "To help readers find and quickly access content they are likely to be searching for because an item is in the news" and "To feature quality Misplaced Pages content on current events". Readers might come here wondering who this man is. 331dot (talk) 03:47, 18 August 2013 (UTC) That's a fair point about the news coverage, but no doubt a conviction would also get plenty of news coverage, and I continue to think that is generally a more appropriate time to post. A conviction for serious crimes would generally seem to be more significant than an arrest based on (unproven) allegations of such crimes. Neljack (talk) 06:05, 18 August 2013 (UTC) If it were the arrest of an extremely high profile criminal (e.g. Osama Bin Laden) then I'd support posting the arrest (I agree that generally a conviction is preferable to post). Trevino may be such an example, but looking at the BBC source, he's the 'second high profile arrest since december' and 'one of the country's most wanted drug-gang leaders'. That doesn't sound quite singularly notable enough for me.--Johnsemlak (talk) 10:20, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Convictions for organized crime warlords usually take a few years because people have to gather evidences and whatnot. It's not as easy to prove that a man headed an illegal, loose network of criminals than to prove that some guy shot another. In addition, I highly doubt that his conviction will get as much press coverage as his arrest. Thank you for your input anyways. Cheers, ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 18:33, 18 August 2013 (UTC) ComputerJA, how notable was trevino before his arrest? Was he extremely well-known in Mexico as a target of Mexican authorities and as an alleged gangster? If we were talking about a crime figure of the stature of, say, John Gotti I'd probably agree the arrest is notable. But I'm not that familiar with the Mexican situation.--Johnsemlak (talk) 22:17, 18 August 2013 (UTC) Mmmm, being the top head of the Gulf Cartel certainly means something. But I surely do not think he was as important as Miguel Treviño Morales and Heriberto Lazcano Lazcano (two drug lords who were posted on the Main Page), nor close to the stature of John Gotti. Ramírez Treviño was the top leader of the cartel for 11 months after he succeeded Jorge Eduardo Costilla Sánchez, but I nominated him for the significance of the arrest for Mexico and the U.S. His absence creates a dangerous power void in northeastern Mexico, considering that Treviño Morales was arrested just a month ago. The Gulf Cartel is without a visible leader—there are just a few regional warlords I can count (just one with a Misplaced Pages page), but none are of his stature. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 00:40, 19 August 2013 (UTC) I'm supporting based on ComputerJA's comments.--Johnsemlak (talk) 02:03, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Someone please explain why a famous white athlete arrested for the admitted shooting of his girlfriend is not posted due to BLP concerns, but there's no presumption of innocence for Mexicans? μηδείς (talk) 02:22, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Was Pistorius the head of a drug-based organization, and did he have a $5 million bounty on him? Regardless of guilt or innocence, these things cannot be denied. It is not impossible to post a story about an arrest without declaring the person guilty. Most legitimate media do this regularly. 331dot (talk) 03:30, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Your point seems to be some accused people are lower than others. That's foreign to my thinking. I don't think Mexicans lose their human rights, the presumption of innocence, or the protections of BLP because their arrests are "important". To me that sounds like we are treating these men (one of whom was released no more than a fortnight ago) not as humans with rights and dignity, but as pests with a commercial bounty on their destruction. Who's the last European whose arrest we mentioned? μηδείς (talk) 04:15, 19 August 2013 (UTC) The point is that the arrest is notable and meets the criteria for inclusion if it gets the amount of supports needed. The blurb does not assert that he is the leader of the Gulf Cartel. It asserts that he is the alleged leader, just like the international media and the government have been handling the case. Thank you for your input. ComputerJA (☎ • ✎) 04:43, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Really? That's how the international media and government are handling it? It looks more like this is Medeis trying to shove the word "alleged" into this (again, just as he failed to do with the Zetas leader), even though most news sources just describe him as a Gulf Cartel leader -- since, you know, that's kind of what he does for a "living". Has he denied that title? No, and he probably never will. And our article treats it as undisputed since, well, it pretty much is. Once again, if anyone wants to play this game that he may not actually be a Gulf Cartel leader, you're going to have to drastically rework the article to say that. -- tariqabjotu 04:55, 19 August 2013 (UTC) We really shouldn't prejudge the judgment of the court. Stating that he is the leader of this criminal organisation is effectively saying that he is guilty. There is no harm in exercising some caution and restraint by included the word "alleged" if this is posted. Neljack (talk) 06:00, 19 August 2013 (UTC) If that's the sentiment people want to have (contrary to all seven of the sources used in this nomination), the article cannot possibly go up in its current state. Other than a lame alleged forced into the lead, the article presumes that he is, in fact, a leader of a cartel. -- tariqabjotu 06:09, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Hence my oppose. Neljack (talk) 06:56, 19 August 2013 (UTC) It isn't prejudging anything to state what he spends his time doing according to most sources, especially if he does not deny it. He doesn't spend his time knitting sweaters. 331dot (talk) 11:35, 19 August 2013 (UTC) How do we know he doesn't deny it? Do we have evidence that the allegation has been put to him? Neljack (talk) 20:57, 19 August 2013 (UTC) I don't believe it is common for people to walk up to suspected leaders of drug cartels and ask them if they are a leader of a cartel of drug dealers, no. At least not without going missing afterwards. 331dot (talk) 21:07, 19 August 2013 (UTC) Exactly my point, 331 Dot. Accused drug-dealers are simply just such obvious sub-human scum that we don't bother to presume their innocence (like decent Americans and Europeans) unless they spend their time writing exculpatory screeds and getting themselves arrested on purpose so they can testify to their innocence in court. And people like Rafael Caro Quintero are never released due to prosecutorial misfeasance. Who's got the rope? Let's string'im up. μηδείς (talk) 01:21, 20 August 2013 (UTC) One can presume innocence of specific charges while still discussing what sources claim this man does for a living. If he doesn't spend his time dealing drugs what does he do all day? They wouldn't bring in the Army and Navy to arrest him if they didn't think he was a threat to them. 331dot (talk) 09:47, 20 August 2013 (UTC) References Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process. For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents: