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Revision as of 09:51, 1 October 2013 editThryduulf (talk | contribs)Oversighters, Administrators98,871 edits →Railway templates consuming entire page width: note left at WT:RDT← Previous edit Revision as of 14:00, 1 October 2013 edit undoDavid Gerard (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators213,066 edits →A weird piece of VE damage, adding a reference: new sectionNext edit →
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I havent found the commonality in the pages that are problematic among them. Maybe a ] regular will have more luck; I'll leave them a note. <span style="font-variant:small-caps">] <sup>'''(])'''</sup></span> 07:41, 1 October 2013 (UTC) I havent found the commonality in the pages that are problematic among them. Maybe a ] regular will have more luck; I'll leave them a note. <span style="font-variant:small-caps">] <sup>'''(])'''</sup></span> 07:41, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
:I've left a note at ] as well, which will hopefully attract an expert. ] (]) 09:51, 1 October 2013 (UTC) :I've left a note at ] as well, which will hopefully attract an expert. ] (]) 09:51, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

== A weird piece of VE damage, adding a reference ==

. What I was trying to do was add PladaoOffice and a reference link, which appeared to add correctly in the VE. Then I noticed there was a full stop after "SunShine Office", so I clicked on it to put the cursor there, and VE added a pile of "☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃", and more each time I clicked again. Note also that my carefully constructed reference is gone, leaving only "&lt;ref name=":0" /&gt;", and it's added another spurious one of those higher up - ] (]) 14:00, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Revision as of 14:00, 1 October 2013

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VisualEditor is available alongside the original wikitext editor if you opt-in, by changing your preferences. It is temporarily disabled for IE9 and IE10 users, due to various issues that are being fixed, and it will not be made available for users of IE8 and earlier; such editors should switch to some other browser in order to use VisualEditor. Please note that VisualEditor is currently not available to unregistered users.

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Your feedback about the VisualEditor beta release

This page is a place for you to tell the Wikimedia developers what issues you encounter when using the VisualEditor here on Misplaced Pages. It is still a test version and has a number of known issues and missing features. We do welcome your feedback and ideas, especially on some of the user interface decisions we're making and the priorities for adding new functions. All comments are read, but personal replies are not guaranteed.

A VisualEditor User Guide is at Misplaced Pages:VisualEditor/User_guide.

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Please click here to file a new bug report on this page
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If you would like to try VisualEditor without editing an article, here is a page where you can freely do so. You don't need an account to use it.


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What is VisualEditor?
VisualEditor is a way to edit pages that looks more like a word processor. It was first offered here in 2013.
How do I enable VisualEditor?
VisualEditor is available alongside the original wikitext editor if you opt-in, by changing your preferences. It is currently not available to unregistered users at the English Misplaced Pages, unless they switch modes while editing.
Why is this change being made?
Some people who could become productive, experienced members of the community are turned off upon attempting their first edit in wikitext "source" mode. Some edits, such as adding or rearranging columns to a table in wikitext, are difficult even for experienced editors.
Where do I go to learn more about how to use VisualEditor?
Please see the VisualEditor User guide.
Does VisualEditor make automatic fixes to pages?
In most cases, VisualEditor will not change or reformat lines that are not being directly edited. If markup already on the page is handled incorrectly (for example, with tables that are not closed), then it may attempt to correct these.
Will it still be possible to edit articles using wikitext after the visual editor becomes available?
Yes. While the visual editor will become available to all users as an editing environment, a method for editing the underlying wikitext "source" will continue to exist. There are no plans to remove the "Edit source" option.
Won't this slow down reading and editing for people who have slow connections or computers?
VisualEditor loads the bulk of its code only when you edit a page in the visual editing mode. So if you keep using "Edit source" or are a reader, the effect on your user experience should be negligible (~4KB of additional JavaScript payload before you click "Edit", or about 0.5% of one typical page). Your web browser will typically cache the JavaScript, speeding up future uses even if you are on a slow connection. However, using the visual editor for editing may cause problems for those on slow computers or connections, especially on very large pages. For these users, opting-out for now may be the best option.
I've found an issue with VisualEditor or a feature that is missing. How can I tell you to fix it?
Please report the issue in Phabricator, after first searching exiting tickets to make sure it hasn't been reported already. Additional bug reporting instructions can be found here. There are four main kinds of issues that the developers especially need to hear about:
  1. Something breaks: The failure may only affect a particular type of browser or computer, on a particular page, or after doing something else. Please post your problem at Misplaced Pages:VisualEditor/Feedback. In your description, it is helpful to include information about what you were trying to do, your web browser, computer operating system, and a link to the article or a diff of the edit if it was possible for you to save the change.
  2. Performance problems: If all pages seem unexpectedly slow on loading or on performing a particular task, or if it used to be faster and has recently gotten worse, then please report this.
  3. User experience issues: If it didn't make sense, or if it was awkward, or if you couldn't figure out what you needed to do (Misplaced Pages:VisualEditor/User guide covers the basics), please speak up, and feel free to offer your suggestions for improving the design.
  4. Missing functionality: Is there something you need to do, but it currently can't be done in VisualEditor, like editing mathematics equations or seeing hidden comments that contain instructions to other editors? Make sure that it's on the developers' list of needed features. If you'd like to know which missing features have been reported before, you can search the talk page archives and feedback archives. If you can't find any reference to the new feature you'd like to suggest, please report it at mw:VisualEditor/Feedback.
Can visual editor be customized ?
Yes, see Misplaced Pages:VisualEditor/Customization, and mw:VisualEditor gadgets for more advanced customization.
How do I disable VisualEditor?
To continue to edit the wikitext directly, simply click the "Edit source" button instead of "Edit". On section edit links, you can open the wikitext editor selected in your preferences for that section by clicking "edit source" instead of the regular "edit" link.
  • If you would like to remove VisualEditor from the user interface, then you can do so.
    • If it is a beta feature: go to the Beta tab of your preferences page, untick the checkbox "Visual Editor", and click the Save button near the bottom of the page. (As of 2021, this is how you do it on Meta-Wiki and the Chinese Misplaced Pages.)
    • If the visual editor is already out of beta:
      • go to the Editing tab of your Preferences page, untick the checkbox "⧼visualeditor-preference-betatempdisable⧽", and click the Save button near the bottom of the page. (This is how you do it on some sister Wikipedias, for instance, Russian Misplaced Pages, as of 2021.)
      • on English Misplaced Pages, go to the Editing tab of your Preferences page and change the "Editing mode" to "Always give me the source editor"
See Misplaced Pages:VisualEditor/Opt-out for other options.
Can I install VisualEditor on my personal wiki outside Wikimedia?
Yes. The VisualEditor extension is available for download.
Can I use named references like the basic wikicode editor does, so I can choose my own reference names?
This has been requested via Community feedback, and is on the list of things to do. There are some links and more information about this on the Misplaced Pages:VisualEditor/Named references page.
The FAQ didn't answer my question. Where may I ask it?
You can ask on the central feedback page on mediawiki.org.

Notes

  1. <<And no, we're not taking markup-level editing away. Some users may always prefer it over visual editing, even if the exact nature of the markup changes, and even if VisualEditor becomes the best tool it can possibly be.>> Erik Möller, deputy director of the Wikimedia Foundation, The VisualEditor Beta and the path to change, op-ed for Misplaced Pages Signpost, July 31st, 2013.

Misplaced Pages:Edit filter to detect Google Translator text

not working well: see examples

--Frze 06:15, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

I can't see a VE problem there: I think this belongs to the Technical Village Pump? --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 11:38, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

References

When you add a reference (and it is added between say 1 and 2) then it will assume the number two with it's identifying information but the information regarding that reference will not be added. See my added references under the discription column on this page (Hypersensitivity Reactions)... all on the right hand column of the page be from the same source. (Le, Tau) but it doesn't show up like that. 83462 17:27, 28 September 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johndheathcote (talk • contribs)

I think this might be 54341 but I don't know if the patch is live yet. Thanks, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 11:43, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Actually, I also tested this here and I got what you call the expected result, which is, all the information pointing to the same reference. I think you had added a duplicate one, instead. So, if you try again in a sandbox, delete the former references and reuse the Le, Tau one you should manage to do what I did. The ref name can be confusing, but the number will display correctly. --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 11:59, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Editing in a table

While trying to add some wiki links in a table, this happened. That kind of result was also happening in the past but I remember that it had been fixed..? Maybe I remember wrong. If it had, then it re-appeared :/ TeamGale 03:18, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Major bug causing hidden reference corruption (loss of added citations, redirection to other citations)

I have twice now in the last few days experienced a bug in which an existing reference has a name of :0 added to it, and also an unrelated reference that I have added is also changed to :0 and the citation within the reference is removed. I think because of the latter problem, this bug has now regressed to worse than it was originally - I don't remember experiencing the latter problem before the last few days.

The error is only visible after clicking either of the two buttons on the save form. Many editors will not initially notice this error at all, assuming that their citations will have been saved OK. Moreover, other editors will often assume good faith and assume that an existing reference, added by an editor in good standing, does indeed substantiate the point cited, without checking, so the incorrect reference may remain for a very long time.

I have added a note to that bug report because I think it is another manifestation of the same bug, but it may in fact be a different bug which is interacting with that bug to produce this overall highly unfortunate effect.

I think this is a serious bug which should be fixed ASAP, and I think everyone adding citations should be aware of it, or should stop using VE until it is fixed.--greenrd (talk) 11:28, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Preview doesn't take into account Undo/Redo

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T53947

Hi,

If you undo your last modifications then go to preview your changes, the modifications that you have just undone are still displayed in the modifications... (tested on frwiki) I didn't test to see what is being done when saving the page. --NicoV 14:27, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, this is Template:Bug which has been assigned a "normal" priority to fix. Thryduulf (talk) 12:50, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Office Hours to discuss VE

The engineering department is hosting two office hours this week to discuss VisualEditor. The first of these will be held on Monday, 30 September, at 1900 UTC. The second will be held on Wednesday, 2 October, at 0000 UTC. Please join as Product Manager James Forrester discusses VisualEditor and upcoming plans. Thanks! --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 08:54, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

No interest in joining IRC. Please take a look at Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical)#Disallow VE updates from the WMF for the foreseeable future. Fram (talk) 09:28, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

27 unconfirmed bugs

There are 27 unconfirmed bugs that match 'VisualEditor', including ones raised back in July. Anyone with some spare time can help by opening one and trying to reproduce the problem and adding a comment there (or here if you dont want to open a bugzilla account). John Vandenberg 09:44, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

I've done a couple, but I note that while my reports automatically get assigned a status of "NEW", those by Whatamidoing are only "UNCONFIRMED" by default. I've got no idea how this default is set (or why we have the respective levels we do), but I see no reason why their reports shouldn't be confirmed by default. Thryduulf (talk) 13:06, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
User:AKlapper (WMF) can give their account the canconfirm right, which should make their bugs NEW by default. --Krenair 13:26, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Users who have "canconfirm" rights in Bugzilla have a dropdown on enter_bug.cgi where they can choose between "UNCONFIRMED", "NEW" and "ASSIGNED" as initial status of a bug report. However I admit I have set up a regex so that users who use a @wikimedia.org address for their account in Bugzilla automatically have "canconfirm" and "editbugs" permissions. The entire problem whether to hand out or not these permissions by default is covered in bugzilla:40497. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 13:52, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Visual Editor/Status

On MediaWiki, there is a page called Visual Editor/Status (), which has a kind of "release notes" for old and new VE updates. These notes then get published to the wikis, e.g. Misplaced Pages:Village pump (technical)#VisualEditor weekly update - 2013-09-26 (MW 1.22wmf19).

How does one correct errors in that page though? Even though it is a wiki, you are not allowed to edit it (as I was told by a MediaWiki admin, "copies of official correspondence that was already posted crosswiki"), and no one at MediaWiki seems to care that the page contains errors, and while they were quick to dismiss my changes as trolling, they have made no effort whatsoever to actually correct the page.

This is a release that will be rolled out to many wikipedia versions on Thursday (including this one), so correcting it before that date seems quite useful. It makes no sense to promise wiki's things you know aren't going to work in the way described, so correcting the page and if necessary posting a new version is only logical.

Can some people (e.g. from the WMF) take a look at the situation and take the necessary actions? I'm not asking to reinstate my version, but the current one isn't acceptable. Can some people also take a look at everything that went on around those edits and take the necessary actions to prevent similar things to occur again? From checking that the page reflects what actually is going to be implemented, to providing clear instructions as to who is or isn't allowed that page (perhaps protect it if it is that official), and so on? Learning from problems is always a good thing. Fram (talk) 12:23, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

I think mw:Talk:VisualEditor/status was the place to alert about that, since that's the way it traditionally works for non-editable pages, although generally speaking adding a simple note to James' talk is also a good move, especially in this case, because it makes sense to me that such an update is eventually corrected by the person who published it - or his coworkers. But I don't think this was an improvement to that page. For everything else, answers from Qgil (who is WMF) should do - also, sometimes it is possible to find answers in Bugzilla threads. As I do from time to time, I'd also like to remind that All comments are read, but personal replies are not guaranteed (from the top of this page). Thanks, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 14:00, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Elitre, that's not a "non-editable page", that page is perfectly editable, it just turned out that some people didn't want it to be updated. Contrary to what happened here, at the user guide, where I didn't want to edit it, but was expected to... It's a bit hard to know what you (WMF people) want actually, and it sometimes looks like you only want to give good news and want to oppress criticism in "official" pages. Fine by me, but then don't pretend that you are a wiki and expect collaboration.
Further; perhaps you don't consider my edits an improvement, but "no one", here or there, has indicated what would have been an improvement or has made any attempt at correcting the obvious errors. You know how people feel about the WMF and VE; what did you expect? A thumbs-up? Just like everyone else, you have not indicated what parts of my edit were incorrect. I just have to accept that it was "not an improvement", if not outright "trolling". Never mind that I was the only one to test that release and to note my remarks.
I have no interest in mentioning this at Jdforrester's talk page, the only question I have posted there is answered very unsatisfactory; more importantly, he asked for feedback to be posted either here or at VTT, and I did both. If he wants feedback on his own talk page, he should have requested this, but it would have been a bad idea, IMO. We have public feedback pages, and we have wiki functionality; now you tell me that both were bad options to get this corrected. Too bad, I'm not going to use other means, or at least not go begging at Jdforrester's talk page to get this changed. The last time he needed to change something, he had to be forced, and he took it very ungratefully.
I don't see how "for everything else, the answers from Qgil should do"; you are releasing that version to many wiki-versions on Thursday, but people should just know that the release notes are incorrect and that the correct answers can be found in Bugzilla? It is good that Qgil has made these Bugzillas, don't get me wrong, but why would that be sufficient?
Finally, I don't expect personal replies, I don't care about personal replies. I expect that action is taken when problems are reported, and the least one can do is to correct release notes (or present an addendum or errata) when they have been shown to be incorrect. Fram (talk) 14:53, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
I'll make my words clear - I thought that page had some sort of protection, good to know it hasn't. But I still think that pages with press releases or similar "official" statements, even if anybody can edit them, should be corrected by the people who issued them if the problem is not, say, a mere typo - and that's why general purpose pages (like this one) might not work well in similar situations. Even if you left a note here, like you did now, the only thing others can do about it is reporting that to James so that he can act about it, because he's speaking for him and his team, so I wouldn't want to put words he never said in his mouth (there are many things someone can do when fixing a mistake, strike text, rephrasing, apologising... None of this should happen when the author is not informed). Also, I'll make it even clearer: I don't think we should ping James or leave a message in his talk in every occasion, but we definitely should do this in particular ones (his updates usually do not need to be corrected!). Bugzilla is usually enough because, you know, devs watch that space. The fact that a bug is new does not mean, for example, that they don't know anything about it, but just that none of them is assigned to fix it yet. Actions are taken when people can take them, but this should go without saying. Regards, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 15:26, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. A few things; he specifically requested feedback here or at VPT: "feedback gratefully received, either here or on the enwiki-specific feedback page." (not part of the "press release" as you call it, but his personal comment to it) If you request feedback at two locations, the least you can do is monitor these pages as well... I left my feedback there and here the 27th, he has since responded to other things, so there was time and opportunity to act upon it. He didn't, so I did. And got blocked for it (and for some still unclear reason then my talk page access got removed as well, very user-friendly interactions at Mediawiki!). And I usually don't interfere in which Bugzilla items should be taken up first or by whom, but this is a time-sensitive issue, it needs to be changed or added to before Thursday, or it becomes meaningless. It is unclear to me whether this (the release notes) even belong at Bugzilla, it has been made clear that release schedules and basically incorrect releases are not a Bugzilla concern, so whether this stood any chance there? By the way, since we are discussing Jdforrester now, Jdforrester (WMF) may be the polite thing to do. Fram (talk) 15:43, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

New References Bug

I turned VisualEditor back because it's very useful for what I was doing, but now I can't add references using the pulldown menu. If the page already has references, it either doesn't add the reference at all, on this page (https://en.wikipedia.org/Vladimir_Gojkovi%C4%87), or adds it as the second reference when it's not really the second reference (https://en.wikipedia.org/Nataliya_Pyhyda). The really odd thing is that when I look at it using Edit Source, it's down as ref = 0. I hope that helps. Red Fiona (talk) 23:23, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Edit to add - the bug sounds a lot like the problem Greenrd was having further up the page.

Anarchism - images appear out of place, and overlap with references

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T53664

On Anarchism, many of the images appear out of place; the image in "Organized labour" now appears in "Russian Revolution and other uprisings of the 1910s". Some have dropped down into the references section. In Chrome, this causes the references block is narrower and longer, with images on each side; on Firefox the images and references appear overlapping. One part of the problem is that that {{Anarchism sidebar}}/{{Individualism sidebar}} and {{Libertarian socialism}} are rendered as expanded in VE, but not in normal mode - there is no way to preview what the page will look like when the sidebar is not expanded; that appears to be Bugzilla:51664. When in normal view mode (not VE), and expand all of those sidebars, a large area of whitespace opens up above "Internal issues and debates", and the images appear there. In the VE, that whitespace is filled with text. So there is a discrepancy between how the page is being rendered in VE and non-VE. I have documented most of this on bugzilla 51664, so please don't rush to create a new bug unless you've properly triaged the problem.

Has the misplaced images problem been seen elsewhere? Is it occurring on pages where it didnt occur previously? John Vandenberg 04:03, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Railway templates consuming entire page width

Some railway templates are consuming the entire page with, while most others that use BS-header do not (but most have niggly layout issues that are Bugzilla:50714 ). A few of the problematic pages are:

I havent found the commonality in the pages that are problematic among them. Maybe a WP:WikiProject Trains regular will have more luck; I'll leave them a note. John Vandenberg 07:41, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

I've left a note at WT:RDT as well, which will hopefully attract an expert. Thryduulf (talk) 09:51, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

A weird piece of VE damage, adding a reference

Dig this. What I was trying to do was add PladaoOffice and a reference link, which appeared to add correctly in the VE. Then I noticed there was a full stop after "SunShine Office", so I clicked on it to put the cursor there, and VE added a pile of "☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃☃", and more each time I clicked again. Note also that my carefully constructed reference is gone, leaving only "<ref name=":0" />", and it's added another spurious one of those higher up - David Gerard (talk) 14:00, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

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