Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 00:16, 19 October 2013

Hey everyone (everyone that comes here that is) I am on an unscheduled Wiki-Break. As some of you know, there was a death in the family in May and I have been busy assisting the trustee with the will and sale of the house and researching items we discovered. I am also very far behind in house cleaning and taking care of other tasks. I will return when I have caught up with my work in real life! Thanks. Feel free to e-mail me if you wish to discuss something!--Mark Miller (talk) 01:15, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

You may leave me a message or ping me with {{u|Mark Miller}} on your talk page or the article talk page. Comments are generally not archived ( several years were successfully archived but stopped and need to catch up). All edits can be found in the talk page history.

My talk page

• Hi, Mark. Sorry to go against your instructions above; I'd use e-mail if you had it, but I really don't much feel like pinging you on my own page — it'd feel silly. Feel free to delete this message. Anyway, you're obviously upset. I regret I didn't deal earlier with the matter that's upset you; I only noticed it this morning (my timezone) because I watch Beeblebrox's page. I hope it's settled now, and that you'll soon feel better about Misplaced Pages. Bishonen | talk 15:15, 11 August 2013 (UTC).

You and another editor recently spent several hours doing this to my talk page when both of you might have been fighting vandals, expanding stubs or adding references. This is an encyclopaedia and the pair of you have wasted a ridiculous amount of energy to no avail. How has the encyclopaedia been improved by your efforts? You must learn when to give up and walk away, and how to do so sooner. If you carry on down this road it will be a short one for either of you. I'm sorry to ignore your request above re this page, but you were very free with mine recently and this is what yours is for - communicating with you. Kim Dent-Brown 19:14, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

Kim Dent-Brown"asted a ridiculous amount of energy to no avail". You'll get no argument from me on that. Don't worry about the message above and leaving this.--Mark 19:21, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

OK Mark, I know your credentials and that's what surprised me about your getting sucked in like that. Give Soham enough rope and see what happens. Kim Dent-Brown 19:23, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

I truly believe I lost all perspective last night. Going swimming. Gonna BBQ and play with the dogs.--Mark 20:00, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

DRN Yeakley

Mark, I see from Steve Zhang's talk page and the DRN volunteer page that you've withdrawn, at least temporarily, as a volunteer. While I can understand why you might want to do that, I don't think that anyone thinks that it's necessary. I, for one, will hate to see you go. However, if you're not going to finish Yeakley (I think that's the only one you still have open), would you drop a note on Cabe's talk page letting him know that so that he can pick it up? Better yet, reconsider and stick around. We need you. Best regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 19:48, 11 August 2013 (UTC)

On the losing of perspective

Hi Mark, I would like to express my regret for what happened earlier between us. Kim's note to me to spend more time in developing the encylopaedia coupled with an especially sad news i received this morning regarding a family friend have given me a better perspective and convinced me that i need to change my ways and also work on being more pleasant to everyone here. I also agree with you now that i should avoid writing 'The Unblockables Part 2' in my user space since i now believe i can be more productive developing the encyclopaedia rather than judging other editors. I hope you will be able to put this behind you and that you will give me one more chance to be on friendly terms with you. Soham321 (talk) 17:42, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

This week's articles for improvement

Thanks

...for your support and your splendid replies to some of the opposes. Enjoy your day. ```Buster Seven Talk 14:54, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Not a problem. I think you would be a good admin. The RFA was not a disaster. Take note of all the suggestions to improve where ever you can and we'll see you back there sooner than later, I think.--Mark 17:04, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Kind of Talkback :)

You got message in my talk :) Miss Bono 17:19, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

WikiLove

	Hello Mark Miller, Carolmooredc has given you an Irish Leprechaun, for some extra luck! You see, these things promote WikiLove and hopefully this has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else an Irish Leprechaun! Enjoy! Get well soon!
	P.S. If you find the money at the end of the rainbow don't forget us :P

Thank you. I'll pass it on!--Mark 04:41, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

How are you doing? I have a question fro you. Miss Bono 18:41, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank Gosh you are better. You said a couple of days ago that you liked me, but until day day I thought you didn't know me (haven't heard about me at all). How is that you knew me?. Just curious. Miss Bono 18:56, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Oh, MadSci! One of the first friendly Wikipedians I had the pleasure to meet when I was wandering around trying to wake up WP:U2. I have to thank you for that :) Miss Bono 19:01, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Always nice to hear such kind words. And of course you are most welcome.--Mark 19:04, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

:D Can you sign my guestbook? You will find a link to it in my header in my talk page :) Miss Bono 19:41, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you so much! :) Again, get well soon! :) What did you do tho the goat? Miss Bono 19:55, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

:D It's my stupid knowdlege of English. It is attacking again. I should have read better. I feel ashamed :( Miss Bono 20:03, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Believe it or not Miss Bono...you are not the first person to confuse that. Seriously. Don't feel ashamed. Not many people even know about the Gout. It is called "the disease of kings". The only thing I inherited from a royal lineage. LOL! (Frankly I would have preferred money)--Mark 20:08, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I've heard about that before. My grandma's sister's husband has it and also some king whose name I am trying to remember but, believe it or not I usually forgot things even though I am only 19. Miss Bono 20:19, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

P.S. I haven't inherited anything from a royal lineage :(... Miss Bono 20:40, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Hope

You are doing ok :) Miss Bono 12:33, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Much better. Still not 100% but way better than last week.--Mark 18:09, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Great to know that you are recovering :) Miss Bono 18:13, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Kamapitha

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for the DRN

Hey Mark, is there something I'm doing wrong here? I'm not really sure how to proceed, since I think I laid out the beginning of a case... anyway let me know what you think, at DRN if that seems best. -Darouet (talk) 21:29, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

New messages

This week's articles for improvement

GOCE Blitz wrap-up and September 2013 drive invitation

Guild of Copy Editors August Blitz wrap-up Participation: Out of sixteen people who signed up for this blitz, nine copy-edited at least one article. Thanks to all who participated! Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here. Progress report: During the seven-day blitz, we removed 26 articles from the requests queue. Hope to see you at the September drive in a few days! Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Torchiest and Torchiest, Baffle gab1978 and Baffle gab1978, Jonesey95 and Jonesey95, and The Utahraptor and The Utahraptor. Sign up for the September drive! To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 02:15, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 21 August 2013

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External Link

Hi Mark,

Yes, you have answered my question, though I am not sure if I can find external link in English. Many thanks. CHHistory (talk) 19:15, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

I am leaving

I am leaving Misplaced Pages. It was great to meet you. Thanks for helping me when I needed, I owe you part of the success that the WP U2 had :) Miss Bono 13:12, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Wait. Don't leave just yet.--Mark Miller (talk) 17:04, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

I am thinking about it. Miss Bono 17:11, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Does this have anything to do with the message left by someone regarding your comment about there being lots of free images on the internet on different sites? Because your statement was valid. Flickr is another hosting site for original works that can be released to CC license as are sites like deviant art where artists can release to even public domain. Many sites host copies of public domain works. There are many sources for free clip art and Wikimedia is filled with that kind of stuff.--Mark Miller (talk) 17:21, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Kind of. it is about me wandering through talk pages asking for help and not contributing to the encyclopedia in the right way. Miss Bono 17:28, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Part of the difficult aspects for me at Misplaced Pages when I first starting editing here was, not just the complication of the university level policy, guidelines and procedures but learning about copyright, public domain and creative commons license verses the "Fair Use" of images or even text. The way that Misplaced Pages works is not a pinpointed thing. People should not accuse you of not using Misplaced Pages the correct way, because that assumes that their own perceptions are accurate and they would certainly need to demonstrate that. Editors can be abrasive and they can hold grudges sometimes and some will even not like you at all. But, as long as you are here for the right reasons, to expand knowledge in as free a manner possible, you are not a disruption and you are a net asset to the encyclopedia...no amount of accusation will stick. You are those things, and Cullen is right. You are young and passion runs quick and fast and I believe it can be an influence on reaction at times. Trust me. It is common to despair when you receive an unhelpful criticism, especially if you feel it is inaccurate. Take a break and give it time. Patience is called for on Misplaced Pages. You have to have patience for yourself as much as with others. You will see that many editors will announce their intent to leave from despair. I have done it. Many of the editors I have worked with I have seen do it. Some come back, some never leave and some are just as strong as before. Criticism is a natural bump in the road to productivity. Learn what you can from whatever mistakes you feel you may have made, any lesson you think you can get from this an move on. These things can make you a better editor instead of driving you away. Take a wiki-break. Go out in the world and be a part of life and come back with a better outlook towards how you can continue to contribute in your own way.--Mark Miller (talk) 17:42, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Many editors begin their Misplaced Pages career by wandering around articles and back pages and viewing history, old and new. Many editors have bumped into gargoyles and got caught up in the bramble bushes that abound here. The trick is to keep moving forward and to stay away from the hornet nests. Don't focus on your critics. Don't bring them into your real world and cause yourself anguish. This place is like a giant zoo. So...you stood in front of the lions cage and he growled at you. I suggest you move to the chimpanzee cage where they may actually interact (see:collaborate) with you. As Mark suggests---take a break. We all do it. ```Buster Seven Talk 17:57, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you both, Mark and Buster. I will think about what you've said and will reconsider my decision. Miss Bono 18:13, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

• • • • WER--1, Retirement--0. ```Buster Seven Talk 18:44, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 28

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Interview request: Your interactions with new editors

I'm contacting you about a study that I'm running with TheOriginalSoni exploring newcomer mentorship activities in Misplaced Pages. I'd like to ask you a few questions about your interactions with newcomers and to explore how a tool like WP:Snuggle might make your work easier. The interview and demo session will take 30 minutes to an hour depending on how much time we spend discussing things. If you're interested, let me know. If not, disregard this message and I won't bother you again.

• Study overview: meta:Research:Peer_mentorship_and_snuggle
• Consent form: meta:Research:Peer_mentorship_and_snuggle/Consent

Thanks for your consideration. --EpochFail (talk • contribs) 15:33, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

EpochFail, this sounds very interesting. I would be happy to participate. I have a few projects to wrap up. I should be available later tonight or tomorrow.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:04, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Great! Feel free to drop me an an email to schedule. I'm usually available between 1400 and 0400 UTC. I'll ask you to use skype, google hangout or anything else that can do screen sharing so that I can watch you test out Snuggle. --EpochFail (talk • contribs) 13:36, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Well...I didn't know we had to do that. I have issues with my Google hangout video. I haven't figured out what I need to do to get sound (microphone) working.--Mark Miller (talk) 18:35, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

We could proceed without screensharing. I have other ways of doing screensharing too if you have java installed. E.g. http://www.screenleap.com. --EpochFail (talk • contribs) 22:21, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Would you still like to proceed, Mark? Regardless of screensharing, I'd still like to hear your thoughts. --EpochFail (talk • contribs) 16:45, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

WikiCup 2013 August newsletter

This year's final is upon us. Our final eight, in order of last round's score, are:

1. Hawkeye7 (submissions), a WikiCup newcomer who has contributed on topics of military history and physics, including a number of high-importance topics. Good articles have made up the bulk of his points, but he has also scored a great deal of bonus points. He has the second highest score overall so far, with more than 3000 points accumulated.
2. Casliber (submissions), another WikiCup veteran who reached the finals in 2012, 2011 and 2010. He writes on a variety of topics including botany, mycology and astronomy, and has claimed the highest or joint highest number of featured articles every round so far this year. He has the third highest score overall, with just under 3000 points accumulated.
3. Cwmhiraeth (submissions), 2012 WikiCup champion, who writes mostly on marine biology. She has also contributed to high-importance topics, seeing huge numbers of bonus points for high-importance featured and good articles. Previous rounds have seen her scoring the most bonus points, with scoring spread across did you knows, good articles and featured articles.
4. Sasata (submissions), a WikiCup veteran who finished in second place in 2012, and competed as early as 2009. He writes articles on biology, especially mycology, and has scored highly for a number of collaborations at featured article candidates.
5. Sturmvogel_66 (submissions), the winner of the 2010 competition. His contributions mostly concern Naval history, and he has scored a very large number of points for good articles and good article reviews in every round. He is the highest scorer overall this year, with over 3500 points in total.
6. Ealdgyth (submissions), who is competing in the WikiCup for the second time, though this will be her first time in the final. A regular at FAC, she is mostly interested in British medieval history, and has scored very highly for some top-importance featured articles on the topic.
7. Miyagawa (submissions), a finalist in 2012 and 2011. He writes on a broad variety of topics, with many of this year's points coming from good articles about Star Trek. Good articles make up the bulk of his points, and he had the most good articles back in round 2; he was also the highest scorer for DYK in rounds 1 and 2.
8. Adam Cuerden (submissions) has previously been involved with the WikiCup, but hasn't participated for a number of years. He scores mostly from restoration work leading to featured picture credits, but has also done some article writing and reviewing.

We say goodbye to eight great participants who did not qualify for the final: Piotrus (submissions), Figureskatingfan (submissions), ThaddeusB (submissions), Dana boomer (submissions), Status (submissions), Ed! (submissions), 12george1 (submissions), Calvin999 (submissions). Having made it to this stage is still an excellent achievement, and you can leave with your heads held high. We hope to see you all again next year. Signups are now open for the 2014 WikiCup, which will begin on 1 January. All Wikipedians, whatever their interest or level of experience, are warmly invited to participate in next year's competition.

This last month has seen some incredible contributions; for instance, Cwmhiraeth's Starfish and Ealdgyth's Battle of Hastings—two highly important, highly viewed pages—made it to featured article status. It would be all too easy to focus solely on these stunning achievements at the expense of those participants working in lower-scoring areas, when in fact all WikiCup participants are doing excellent work. A mention of everything done is impossible, but here are a few: Last round saw the completion of several good topics (on the 1958, 1959 and 1962 Atlantic hurricane seasons) to which 12george1 had contributed. Calvin999 saw "S&M" (song), on which he has been working for several years, through to featured article status on its tenth try. Figureskatingfan continued towards her goal of a broad featured/good topic on Maya Angelou, with two featured and four good articles. ThaddeusB contributed significantly to over 20 articles which appeared on the main page's "in the news" section. Adam Cuerden continued to restore a large number of historical images, resulting in over a dozen FP credits this round alone. The WikiCup is not just about top-importance featured articles, and the work of all of these users is worthy of commendation.

Finally, the usual notices: If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Reviews. If you want to help out with the WikiCup, please do your bit to reduce the review backlogs! Questions are welcome on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk • email) and The ed17 (talk • email) 06:08, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 August 2013

• In the media: Chelsea Manning, Box-office predictors, and 'Storming Misplaced Pages'

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Please comment on Template talk:Infobox video game

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Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter - September 2013

The WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter Volume III, no. 1 – September 2013 Note: If you would like opt out from receiving future newsletters, please place a note next to your name on the project's participant list.
Project News The project has been updated with new Goals, with target numbers of 500 each for Featured and Good articles, and for 10% of all project-related articles to be improved to B-Class or better. 500 good articles: 81.4% complete 500 featured articles: 10.8% complete 10% of all articles rated B-Class or better: 46.3% complete A new Welcome squad section has been added to the project's main page. If interested, please sign on! A new DYK articles page has been created listing food and drink articles that have been featured on Misplaced Pages's Main page as Did you know entries. Please add new food and drink DYK articles to the list! The project's Top-level importance nominations page has several new entries. New additions and discussion are always welcome. A proposal to create a Chocolate Task Force is currently being discussed. The new ' was created in June 2013. The Coffee portal was significantly expanded in May–June 2013. WikiProject Breakfast was created in April 2013. Check it out! Please see the project's Tasks and To do sections for project and article tasks, and feel free to update the lists with new entries. Please feel free to contribute to the creation of the newsletter's next issue. Any and all contributions are welcome! The project's previous newsletter was published in August 2008. Its reintroduction has been performed in hopes to increase project participation. Apologies if you did not wish to receive this newsletter (see opt-out message at top).	New members who have joined in July–August, 2013: Ailemadrah (talk · contribs) Ranking Update (talk · contribs) The project currently has 97 members. Please feel free to welcome the new members! New articles created in August 2013: Botak Jones Gingerbread Museum Ciulama Akçaabat meatballs Dry meatballs Meatball soup Farali potatoes Food Photographer of the Year Tire meatballs Death Wish Coffee Also, in July 2013, (at least) 41 new food/drink-related articles were created. To view a listing of them, see New articles. Also, please add new articles to the list when discovering them! Past newsletters: See Monthly newsletters Portals Portals Food Drink Beer Wine Coffee Agriculture view
Food and drink articles by quality and importance There are currently 26,063 articles and 10,184 stubs attributed to the project. 31 articles are at Featured article level, 114 are at Good article level, 2 are at Featured list level and 1 is at A-level.— View by clicking show — Article statistics Food and drink articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Top High Mid Low NA ??? Total FA 7 8 16 31 FL 2 2 FM 60 60 A 1 1 GA 6 9 31 68 114 B 11 10 28 29 78 C 54 296 507 677 364 1,898 Start 40 412 1,255 3,014 2,002 6,723 Stub 4 99 726 4,306 5,049 10,184 List 6 42 49 131 31 71 330 Template:Book-Class 11 11 Category 1,513 1,513 Disambig 55 55 File 682 682 Portal 427 427 Project 193 1 194 Redirect 391 391 Template 475 475 Assessed 122 877 2,604 8,241 3,838 7,487 23,169 Unassessed 2,894 2,894 Total 122 877 2,604 8,241 3,838 10,381 26,063

• Posted by Northamerica1000 01:17, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Clerk Request - Chelsea Manning

Hey Mark Miller,

Would you be able to do me a favour and reduce the word count of your statement to below 700 words? Would be hugely appreciated. The limit typically for statements and requests is 500 words but I willing to permit up to 700 given the scope and size of this dispute. This is something I have enfored with others as well so dont feel its just yourself. It is important to keep in mind that the longer statements are the less likely they will actually be read. Conciseness and brevity throughout ones participation is the key to arbcom cases. Which is why we have such limits.

In case you want to know how the 700 is being calculated, copy and paste your section from the rendered section here:http://www.javascriptkit.com/script/script2/countwords.shtml. Don't use the raw text.

Many Thanks

Seddon 06:43, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of the limit. Sure.--Mark Miller (talk) 08:34, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

WP:Food

It would be appreciated if you joined in the conversation occurring at WT:Food regarding the layout and presentation of the project's main page. Northamerica1000 03:17, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Should new pages for Guttermouth discography, Uproar Festival 2010, Uproar Festival 2011, Uproar Festival 2012, Uproar Festival 2013 be created?

Should new pages for Guttermouth discography, Uproar Festival 2010, Uproar Festival 2011, Uproar Festival 2012 and Uproar Festival 2013 be created? There is an RfC at Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/Media, the arts, and architecture. Thanks! --Jax 0677 (talk) 16:47, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 04 September 2013

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• EdwardsBot (talk) 00:03, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Evidence phase open - Manning naming dispute

Dear Mark Miller.

This is just a quick courtesy notice. You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Manning naming dispute. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Manning naming dispute/Evidence. Please add your evidence by September 19, 2013, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Manning naming dispute/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Seddon 23:33, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of MacKenzie McHale

Hello, Mark Miller. I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you started, MacKenzie McHale, for deletion because it's a biography of a living person that lacks references. If you don't want MacKenzie McHale to be deleted, please add a reference to the article.

If you don't understand this message, you can leave a note on my talk page.

Thanks, VI-007 (talk) 21:21, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

The Signpost: 11 September 2013

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• EdwardsBot (talk) 07:32, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of MacKenzie McHale

The article MacKenzie McHale has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non notable character from a TV show.

While all constructive contributions to Misplaced Pages are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Dbrodbeck (talk) 19:21, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of MacKenzie McHale for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article MacKenzie McHale is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/MacKenzie McHale until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Dbrodbeck (talk) 11:31, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

DRN White Queen disagreement

Mark, what I disagreed with was this statement, especially the last sentence, though in re-reading it I'm uncertain if what I disagree with isn't really what you were trying to say:

The article is not finished and I would assume no where near ready for a GA rating. For that reason editors still have the option of ignoring a policy if it improves the article and I am willing to support such an ignoring of the rules here as long as it doesn't lower the current rating and importance of the article. I would prefer notes and sources for analysis however. As a C class, low importance article...it doesn't seem as though it would do much harm to ignore a rule here and simply make note in the prose itself within the actual plot summary, however it does pose an issue when attempting to raise the rating above the C rating or for GA and FA.

I believe that there is a higher standard for edits to FA articles than the "base" Misplaced Pages standard, not a lower one than the base for non-GA/FA articles. We should never go below the base. That's all I meant. Best regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 18:22, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the changes

Hey Mark! Wanted to say thank you and another thing. See, I have a very poor interface of Misplaced Pages; so it is difficult for me to spot the chages... can you tell me which were those changes you did :D Thanks very much and sorry the bothers! Miss Bono 19:57, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

No problem. Let me leave a link to the exact copy edits. It was just a few word additions and one spelling correction. Give me just a sec.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:02, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

OK...it was one word addition and two spelling corrections . Just for clarity. But as I said feel free to revert if you don't want those changes!--Mark Miller (talk) 20:05, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Oh, thank you so much for the changes... of course I will keep them :D... By the way, I just love this... I made a portrait of Bono once, but I don't know where it is now, his mouth is a tricky one for me to paint... and he has this thing in his eyelids that I just can't achive to paint... ¿(O_o)?, I made another one of Hugh Laurie and it is somewhere in my closet :P Miss Bono 20:10, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you so much. I am finishing up another portrait. This one of Jimbo Wales. I like to fall back on these other types of activity when I get frustrated with Misplaced Pages. I will be uploading the portrait in the next week or so and then I have another I will be beginning. I am experimenting with CC 3.0 license images to paint from just for Misplaced Pages.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:18, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

That's really cool, Mark! I wish I had time for painting. I really like to paint, and love photography as well, I am saving money for buying me a camera :D, so I'll be uploading some pictures pretty soon, I took this one with my phone and this one... Not so good because they were taken with a cell Miss Bono 20:23, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Those are pretty good even for a cell phone. You should consider a photoshop program like GIMP to help adjust the image to improve the composition, contrast etc. It helps to overcome the limitations of the camera. Mine are not that great and I am hoping to get something better eventually.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:28, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

I do use Photoshop to make stuffs... like this one File:Waves of Sorrow.png I will take into account your advice for future pictures :D Thank you very much! Miss Bono 20:31, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

I love using photoshop for my pics. It makes me look like I know what I'm doing. ;-) LOL!--Mark Miller (talk) 20:37, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, photoshop is amazing. Miss Bono 12:44, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

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Contemporary art

Hi Mark. i would like to revitalize the wikiproject contemporary art. I added some resources and edited a bit the project pages. I think it would be useful to have a coordinated space for contemporary art. it is still needing quite a lot of effort to improve that Misplaced Pages offers in this field. hope you like the idea and thanks.--Iopensa (talk) 10:25, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

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WikiCup 2013 September newsletter

In 30 days, we will know the identity of our 2013 WikiCup champion. Cwmhiraeth (submissions) currently leads; if that lead is held, she will become the first person to have won the WikiCup twice. Sasata (submissions), Hawkeye7 (submissions)—who has never participated in the competition before—and Casliber (submissions) follow. The majority of points in this round have come from a mix of good articles and bonus points. This final round is seeing contributions to a number of highly important topics; recent submissions include Phoenix (constellation) (FA by Casliber), Ernest Lawrence (GA by Hawkeye7), Pinniped, and red fox (both GAs by Sasata).

The did you know (DYK) eligibility criteria have recently changed, meaning that newly passed good articles are accepted as "new" for did you know purposes. However, in the interests of not changing the WikiCup rules mid-competition, please note that only articles eligible for DYK under the old system (that is, newly created articles or 5x expansions) will be eligible for points in this year's WikiCup. We do, however, have time to discuss how this new system will work for next year's competition; a discussion will be opened in due course. On that note, thoughts are welcome on changes you'd like to see for next year. What worked? What didn't work? What would you like to see more of? What would you like to see less of? All Wikipedians, new or old, are also warmly invited to sign up for the 2014 WikiCup.

If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Reviews. If you want to help out with the WikiCup, please do your bit to reduce the review backlogs! Questions are welcome on Misplaced Pages talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Misplaced Pages:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk • email) and The ed17 (talk • email) 23:28, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter - October 2013

The WikiProject Food and Drink Newsletter Volume III, no. 2, October 2013 Note: To opt out from receiving future newsletters, please click here for instructions.
Project News An updated front page, A new sister project and updates to our DYK page — View by clicking  — The project's main page has been redesigned and now has many new features; be sure to stop by and take a look! At Wikimedia Commons, the new WikiProject Food and Beverages was created by User:Willscrlt on September 5, 2013. Check it out, and feel free to join if interested. The project now has a new bot-generated list of new food and drink articles at AlexNewArtBot – New food and drink articles. A link to the page has been added to the project's main page. The project's DYK articles page was significantly expanded by User:Miyagawa and User:Jerem43 in September 2013. Please see the project's Tasks and To do sections for project and article tasks, and feel free to update the lists with new entries. Please feel free to contribute to the creation of the newsletter's next issue. Article alerts — View by clicking  — Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Food and drink/Article alerts Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum. Curabitur pretium tincidunt lacus. Nulla gravida orci a odio. Nullam varius, turpis et commodo pharetra, est eros bibendum elit, nec luctus magna felis sollicitudin mauris. Integer in mauris eu nibh euismod gravida. Duis ac tellus et risus vulputate vehicula. Donec lobortis risus a elit. Etiam tempor. Ut ullamcorper, ligula eu tempor congue, eros est euismod turpis, id tincidunt sapien risus a quam. Maecenas fermentum consequat mi. Donec fermentum. Pellentesque malesuada nulla a mi. Duis sapien sem, aliquet nec, commodo eget, consequat quis, neque. Aliquam faucibus, elit ut dictum aliquet, felis nisl adipiscing sapien, sed malesuada diam lacus eget erat. Cras mollis scelerisque nunc. Nullam arcu. Aliquam consequat. Curabitur augue lorem, dapibus quis, laoreet et, pretium ac, nisi. Aenean magna nisl, mollis quis, molestie eu, feugiat in, orci. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Fusce convallis, mauris imperdiet gravida bibendum, nisl turpis suscipit mauris, sed placerat ipsum urna sed risus. In convallis tellus a mauris. Curabitur non elit ut libero tristique sodales. Mauris a lacus. Donec mattis semper leo. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Vivamus facilisis diam at odio. Mauris dictum, nisi eget consequat elementum, lacus ligula molestie metus, non feugiat orci magna ac sem. Donec turpis. Donec vitae metus. Morbi tristique neque eu mauris. Quisque gravida ipsum non sapien. Proin turpis lacus, scelerisque vitae, elementum at, lobortis ac, quam. Aliquam dictum eleifend risus. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Etiam sit amet diam. Suspendisse odio. Suspendisse nunc. In semper bibendum libero. Proin nonummy, lacus eget pulvinar lacinia, pede felis dignissim leo, vitae tristique magna lacus sit amet eros. Nullam ornare. Praesent odio ligula, dapibus sed, tincidunt eget, dictum ac, nibh. Nam quis lacus. Nunc eleifend molestie velit. Morbi lobortis quam eu velit. Donec euismod vestibulum massa. Donec non lectus. Aliquam commodo lacus sit amet nulla. Cras dignissim elit et augue. Nullam non diam. Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus et malesuada fames ac turpis egestas. In hac habitasse platea dictumst. Aenean vestibulum. Sed lobortis elit quis lectus. Nunc sed lacus at augue bibendum dapibus.	Feel free to welcome the new members who have recently joined the project. — View by clicking  — EdJF (talk · contribs) The project currently has 87 active members. Some recent food and drink new articles and content: — View by clicking  — Bahamian cuisine Honolulu molasses spill Red Lane Tavern French's Tavern International Cocoa Organization Keshi yena Yates Tavern Khao tom mad Karlie's Kookies Tortuga (cocktail) Figaro Coffee Company American Winery Guide Krinos Foods Canada Mission Brewery GrubHub Seamless Chee.Toz Evangelical feast St. Jacobs' Farmers Market Manto negro Pore (bread) Beer in San Diego County, California The Chile Pepper Institute Past newsletters
Food and drink articles by quality and importance There are currently 26,552 articles attributed to the project, including 10,197 stubs. There are 32 articles at Featured article class, 120 are at Good article class and 3 are at Featured list class. — View by clicking  — Article statistics Food and Drink WikiProject article assessment Food and drink articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Top High Mid Low NA ??? Total FA 7 15 32 54 FL 2 2 4 FM 146 146 GA 18 31 77 281 407 B 56 232 346 717 87 1,438 C 77 405 1,013 3,595 550 5,640 Start 22 326 1,666 12,086 3,908 18,008 Stub 17 532 9,020 4,927 14,496 List 12 71 115 550 23 276 1,047 Category 8,313 8,313 Disambig 200 200 File 2,846 2,846 Portal 340 340 Project 355 355 Redirect 10 67 576 2,475 3,128 Template 907 907 NA 6 66 1,951 2,023 Other 193 193 Assessed 185 1,101 3,837 26,925 17,749 9,748 59,545 Unassessed 13 1,968 1,981 Total 185 1,101 3,837 26,938 17,749 11,716 61,526 WikiWork factors (?) ω = 204,775 Ω = 5.11 Assessment log and Guide to Assessment Help on Editing and Sourcing Articles view

• Delivered by Northamerica1000 20:47, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Bradley Manning/October 2013 move request

Greetings. Because you participated in the August 2013 move request regarding this subject, you may be interested in participating in the current discussion. This notice is provided pursuant to Misplaced Pages:Canvassing#Appropriate notification. Cheers! T 21:33, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you so much for verifying that this was not canvassing per our policy. While it seems that particular policy is not something admin bother to enforce, I still find the use of inappropriate canvassing to be very wrong. Good job!--Mark Miller (talk) 01:03, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

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I'm sorry

Hello Mark, Oh, I hadn't heard about your lost. My thoughts are with you. I hope you are doing ok. Take care. Miss Bono 20:12, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

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• EdwardsBot (talk) 16:25, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Benghazi

Hey Mark, I don't want to get in an editing war, but I would appreciate if we discuss on the talk page before reverting. I find the CIA actions in Benghazi before, during, and after the attack are key to this story. I don't really have a problem with adding the "according to who" stamp back regarding the shipping of weapons to Syria. I was merely trying to add info, as the Jake Tapper article (with Drew Griffin) mentions a broad "speculation on Capitol Hill". Do you have a better way to phrase it? Myster Black (talk) 20:58, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Myster Black, reverting a revert is an edit war, so it is a tad late for that disclaimer. And I do not feel that discussion BEFORE hand is a requirement of editing OR reverting. Please refer to WP:BRD. The article should cover the subject in a broad manner but not cover details that are not directly related to the subject which the addition you placed seems to be. It seemed oddly out of place in the article and also seemed to be making a point that was not obvious.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:16, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I have problems with Myster Black's attempt to put in material from "the Definitive Account" despite a long discussion last spring in which it was clear that he was the only one who felt that its reliance on anonymous sourcing was acceptable. We had a discussion, now listed under "investigative reporting" in which this is explained. I am irritated that this same set of materials that was rejected earlier is now popping up under a slightly different guise. I only put it on your page, because you have had experience with him and seem very knowledgeable as to Misplaced Pages rules and norms. Tedperl (talk) 05:47, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Tedperl, this was about Way of the Knife by Mark Mazzetti. I guess a Pulitzer Prize is not enough for you. Sheesh. Mark, I am somewhat confused that you don't think the actions of the CIA in Benghazi is not relevant when we know there were dozens of them on the ground in Benghazi. Multiple sources have confirmed that now. What they were doing before and during the night of the attack is relevant. Do you disagree? If so, please give an argument. Myster Black (talk) 17:43, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Not exactly what I think, but that if included it needs proper context and better wording as it seemed dropped in for some odd effect. What was the exact reliable source you were using Myster. Lets' discuss a way to compromise and see if inclusion is possible in some manner.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:13, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

The source in the intro is Way of the Knife as I just stated above, and was sourced in the text you removed. It is written by Pulitzer Prize winning author Mark Mazzetti of the New York Times. The sentence right before the one you removed states that the CIA had a covert presence in Benghazi in the time leading up to the attack. The sentence you deleted added specifics about what they were doing there (controlling the flow of arms to rebel commanders). What exactly do you have a problem with? Would you like to propose alternative wording?

As for the investigative journalism section, Webb and Murphy have reported on lethal JSOC operations targeting Al-Qaeda personalities in Libyan militias in the months leading up to the attack. I find this highly relevant. Do you disagree? I have never seen a source that contradicts this reporting. Therefore, it deserves mention in the investigative journalism section. We can haggle over how it should be described, but those main points deserve to be there. Let's find a way to get it there. Myster Black (talk) 21:15, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you...

...for your support. I do appreciate it, however futile it may have turned out to be, as happens when you're in the minority. The ignorance displayed by the ArbCom is in not seeing what my core complaints were, about advocacy and invalid sourcing. They seemed to think it was about the topics I'm now banned from - topics that aren't even on my radar. It wasn't about those topics. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 02:33, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry if I bitched a tad too much there. I have had discussions with you on these topics and felt that, while you had strong convictions you were using humor to fight against what you didn't believe in or support and that you never seemed to cross lines that I felt were abusive. I was not for sanctions against anyone on this case as it was so contentious it was and is the cause for very soar feelings and retaliation is likely. But....I like your contributions and feel you were singled out due to an individual complaint that seemed to be a punishment for your convictions and not preventative...at least in your case I fell very strongly about that.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:55, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

No problem, I can handle it. :) You've got a good point: This thing was so out of whack that they should have just waited for the dust to settle. And you may well be right that I was a target opportunity. I really resent the complainants' notion that I'm prejudiced. I've said my share of stupid things over time, but being an idiot sometimes doesn't make me prejudiced - it just makes me an idiot sometimes. :( When I realize that, when my own dim bulb finally comes on, I try to lighten things up a bit. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:06, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

I am a gay activist, but I have friends that have been brutalized and their lives destroyed over there simple beliefs. It is not right to do that to gay people and it isn't right for gay people to do it to straight people. life should be simple and our personal beliefs not held against us as editors if we are not altering the actual article. Talk pages should not be a place where we intimif=date our way to what we want, no matter what side we are on.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:14, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes. And I'm not really any kind of activist, but I like to think of myself as "straight but hopefully not too narrow". ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:42, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

I have never thought of you as narrow minded. That is for sure. Sometimes we want to fight strongly for what we believe in and others will find that alone to be offensive. Never let the fight of others make you feel your beliefs are not worth fighting for. It may not be what I believe...but I will fight to the death for your right to express it. I didn't go through my boss ending up on all the national news networks about his support for Prop 8 and watching it with my mother on her death bed and having to explain what the fuss was about without learning something....I just need to apply that to my real life and convince people that others not agreeing with you is not something to destroy a life over. it really isn't. Some day I hope we all look back at the Manning case and say to ourselves (everyone) "what was the fuss all about?"--Mark Miller (talk) 03:53, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, we can all stand improvement. :) I like spirited debate, as I don't think I can learn much of anything new by being agreed with. :) To my mind, it's amazing how much progress has been made since the 1960s, on any number of fronts. A black president? Same-sex marriage? Routine openness about many subjects once considered very touchy? Nobody would have guessed it, in 1963. I'm old-fashioned and patriotic in certain ways, but I don't ever want to become like that fabled New England farmer who was interviewed on his 100th birthday. Interviewer: You've lived a long time. Subject: Yep. Interviewer: And you've seen a lot of changes over your century of life. Subject: Yep. And I was against every one of 'em! ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 04:05, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

In case you've never seen this, here's one way to have an argument: ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 04:09, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Seen it? Bwahahahahahaha! It's one of my favorites! LOL! "I'd like to have an argument, please". ;-)--Mark Miller (talk) 04:24, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

No you wouldn't. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 04:47, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

He don't know me very wel....do he. LOL! (a bugs reference....and the accurate truth when it come to me and an argument. LOL!)--Mark Miller (talk) 05:12, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

You were supposed to say, "Yes I would", and then add an infinite-loop symbol. For extra credit: Where did the "He don't know me very well, do he?" originate? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 15:47, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

--Mark Miller (talk) 20:20, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Soytenly! Except that that comment, which is associated with Bugsy, was one of many that he lifted from popular media, especially radio and film. "If I dood it, I git a whippin'..." was from Red Skelton's "mean widdle kid", and I must confess I don't recall if it was Skelton or Dorothy Parker's "Baby Snooks" character that originated the "He don't know me very well..." line, but my money's on Skelton. One of Bugsy's most-repeated comments was "Of course you realize this means war!" is usually credited to Groucho and company in Duck Soup. That's what I love about the 1940s WB cartoons - loaded with topical references. His signature line, "What's up, Doc?" came from Tex Avery, who said it was a common phrase back in his home town. It's still popular. "-t's up?" or "whazzup?" ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 02:31, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

I am almost certain that "He don't know me very well...do he" originated with Skelton. Yes, many of the lines were lifted from others and became attached to the cartoon. Certainly the Duck Soup reference doesn't even require me to google it. I guess I am that old.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:37, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

The frequent radio crossovers probably weren't hurt by the presence of Mel Blanc in both media. He used some of his schticks in both, like for example the way he made the sound of a horse's whinny, and the famous "Train leaving on Track 5..." Those old cartoons are a treasure-trove of 1940s pop culture. I especially like the one where Bugs and a gremlin are zooming down to their apparent doom, in an airplane, only to run out of gas, due to rationing. I would love to have been in the audience the first time that played - they must have roared with laughter. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 02:46, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

BBQ

Re , that would be Texas with a slight concentration of the very best in Central Texas, though excellent BBQ can also be found in North Texas and parts of East Texas, with a few outliers in West Texas and the Texas Panhandle. Mmmmm ... BBQ. Best regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 15:45, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Like. BBQ....mmmmmmm.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:15, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Infobox photo consensus discussion

Hi. Can you offer your opinion on which photo would be better for the Rebecca Housel Infobox in this discussion? If you are unable to, I understand; you don't have to reply to this message. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 03:36, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Oh...I think I am staying away from such discussions for a while.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:01, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Mises ANI

Hello Mark Miller. If you review the discussion on that Mises ANI thread, you will find my rationale for my proposal. It is that in hindsight the former protection should not have been lifted so if we roll back to before the former protection expired, we reinstate both the article and the protection as they existed when the need for PP was first identified. I have no idea exactly what's in that version and it ultimately won't matter because issues will need to be agreed upon during the renewed protection. That was my thinking. SPECIFICO talk 00:56, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

I'll relook at the discussion but it did seem that the most logical course of action with all such wars is to lock the page at the point where it was most stable. This is long standing policy and I see no reason to disregard it. But I am open to all discussion and will look again! Thanks.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:52, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I intended to express that recommendation. Although there have been many disagreements on this article, it continued to evolve in a more or less orderly way until shortly before the first PP, when there was a series of reverts concerning the lede, if I recall. But that was resolved and after PP ended it was stable for about a week until one editor did 20-25 edits in a short period yesterday, several of which prompted EW undo's. That was the instability I thought we should reverse. Anyway, thanks for your input on this. SPECIFICO talk 03:06, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

No problem. I support what the community decides but I do disagree with Sitush in only that there must be a stable version at some point ad if not....there are mush wider problems. I think Sitush has the very best intentions and indeed may even have a great deal of information on the situation to share that may convince me, but at the moment, my main concern is finding where the stable version is, even if its a stub. We regularly reduce articles of this nature back to stubs to rebuild in proper order, within policy and then exclude the disruptive editors with topic bans and blocks. To me the article itself is always the most important part of the equation but then it takes an editor to build an article and history on our little project (Misplaced Pages) shows that not everyone is here to build an encyclopedia. For that reason I support all blocks , bans and other sanctions to preserve the peace of the community and continue with our goals.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:29, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Actually, although I don't know Sitush, I don't believe (s)he has any information or knowledge of this article other than what's on the ANI thread. I've never previously encountered this editor and don't see any contributions in this or related articles. Mark, a huge amount of effort and careful work has been done over the past year improving this article. Please compare today's article with the version from one year ago, which was largely sourced from references either directly from the Institute, published by the Institute, or written by its employees and published elsewhere. It concerns me to see you write articles "of this nature" because the ANI has arisen due to behavior of editors, not due to the nature of the article or even its current strengths and weaknesses. It troubles me, as one trained in the field of Economics, having devoted considerable effort to researching the topic and finding solid RS sources and new content, to see well-intentioned proposals to scrap the article. Let's face it, there are some editors who react badly to any change and this article has certainly changed in the past year. What troubles me is that every editor here is free, and encouraged, to add more RS content to this article. Personal attacks and destruction of what's already been added is not in the spirit of building. I don't know why it happens but it's really not about the content of the article at all. Why would we throw out all the progress that's been made here? The article should be examined by as many editors as possible, criticize, improved, and edited -- but why throw out solid RS content that represents many person-years of effort? And how convincing can it be for Sitush to suggest scrapping this article, when he has no experience with it, and it is in a subject outside his expertise? I don't feel that's a recommendation that should be made casually. We should require a detailed presentation of anyone's rationale for such a draconian decision, with documentation and specific arguments as to why that is the best available remedy. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 03:54, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

I have generally found that Sitush looks into these situations before they comment. They may indeed have pertinent info that would sway me one way or the other. That is what I said and what I believe. However, I am now becoming concerned that you feel that work would be scrapped by a stubbing of the article. look, if its a legitimate RS then it will surely be added back, but yes.....we do scrap articles that undergo such edit warring. Then we are just starting over with the published version while all information and references remain in the history.

Look, the issue here seems to be both content and behavior. It is a sad affair to watch, but these things do get handles by reverting to the most stable version. editors really do frown on a specific version be used. But, stubbing is only a suggestion. Frankly this seems headed to Arb Com.--Mark Miller (talk) 04:29, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Hello Mark. This is a complex subject and the WP article about it has a long history. User Sitush commented 16 minutes after the thread was opened. How could he have studied the matter thoroughly? In this case at least, he appears to have been shooting from the hip. This article has progressed with usual WP process, including various RfC, RSN and other dispute resolution which has helped the group sort out various issues. If you have the impression that there's been a years-long EW here, I think closer study will show you that's not the case. There was a sudden acceleration quite recently and PP is appropriate and very likely a sufficient solution here, in my opinion. Nothing prevents any editor from adding RS content to the article. Those who feel the article is lacking some content or is biased one way or another can add any RS content to balance or contradict the content they don't like. I wish they'd find and add that content and make the article better. SPECIFICO talk 13:44, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

I didn't even have to look at the history to know that the article probably had a much longer stable history than may have been suggested by Sitush, and perhaps they were shooting from the hip, but maybe they also took the time and still thought there were some issues going very far back. But this isn't about the process as much as the article and the editors. DR on Misplaced Pages takes some time and doesn't always stick. Tell me though...has the article ever been taken to DR/N or Med Com to deal with the content issues or are you saying that the RFC's have covered such disputes enough to settle them? The other boards will only go so far with content as they are limited to specific parts of the articles structure and sourcing etc., while the DR/N will only deal with the content. It may be a route to take.--Mark Miller (talk) 18:15, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Mark, that's an interesting comment about DR/N dealing only with content. What has happened (and we're seeing a replay here) is that a small number of editors use the ANI to go off-topic into angry personal attacks which they decline to document with diffs or references. It's ironic, but editor Carolmooredc today listed about a dozen of her noticeboard postings, none of which found in favor of the positions and accusations she presented. There are about a dozen articles relating to libertarian and Austrian subjects which have been greatly improved over the past year or two. RfC's have worked on several occasions and the results have been accepted by the involved editors. Same with RSN and other noticeboard threads. But in several of the the noticeboard threads these personal attacks are inserted by a small number of editors. I don't want to be more specific than that, but if you review the past 6 months' talk pages on Mises Institute and Carolmoore's own list of noticeboard threads, you can form your own opinion. If DR/N or Med Com would somehow prevent the personal attacks from being introduced, that sounds would be great. Thanks for your thoughtful attention. SPECIFICO talk 18:36, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes..yes it will. DR/N will not allow personal attacks. That is strictly monitored and they can and will be collapsed by volunteers if the editor themselves refuse to retract or remove offending attacks. Med com is pretty much the same but I know less about their activities as they slowed down a bit after DR/N became more functional, but I assume it is the same there. Excellent DR editors are on the Med Com as small board of editors which differs from DR/N where anyone may volunteer tha does not have any conflicts or close interactions with the involved editors.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:15, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Med Com sounds like what is needed. Thanks I'll have a look. I presume I can search Help for links. I'd first like to see editors add new RS content to the article. It's not very easy to find RS references for relatively obscure topics and I'm not sure why some editors remain unhappy with the current article but don't add RS text to improve it. SPECIFICO talk 19:29, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Thoughts on NPOV/FAQ - Dealing with biased contributors

Hello, Mark. I have asked on the NPOV talk page and repeatedly at ANI for guidance on the following which Specifico and Steeletrap call personal attacks, i.e., discussion of their very vocal negative criticisms of a range of individuals and ideas, as well as their biased edits. I have gotten only one, mostly sympathetic response, so figure I must be interpreting it properly. Do you have any thoughts on this? Thanks. User:Carolmooredc 00:16, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

GOCE September 2013 drive wrap-up

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