Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 02:44, 11 June 2006

Review

I have added a just released review of Terry Goodkind. Mystar 03:06, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Never heard of Darken and Demmin as Russian names. And I lived in the USSR for 18 years. I suppose this must be a misunderstanding originating in some lousy translation. --Oop 08:26, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)

Russian names

"Demmin" could be a misinterpretation of "Demyan", very rare Russian name. And there are no names that look like "Darken".

Review : Goodkind is not a man but a Hamster inside a artificial body...

Work

This page needs major work. I am going to commit some time to it, and I hope others will do the same.

Symbolism

Until further notice, I have removed the Symbolism section of this page. Most of this article is speculation and very little of it is correct, in addition, the article is poorly written. For example, the article states that Subtractive Magic sybolizes "the loss of freedom. Subtractive is viewed as evil because it subtracts freedom." Not only is that poor grammar, it is simply not true; subtractive magic is vital to Goodkind's world, and Richard Rahl himself frequently uses it. In fact, the entire book of "Naked Empire" is dedicated to the fact that things like Subtractive Magic and killing, if justified are good, while peace and submission, if unjustified are bad. I can hardly believe you've read through his books and not picked this up by now. You also make a claim that "The central square in the end of the first and second books may also be references to Red Square in St. Petersburg." Red Square is in Moscow, and I doubt very much that Goodkind was refering to Russia when he created Da'Hara. Da'Harans are traditionally blue eyed, blonde haired warriors (Generally an Aryan trait), and the Da'Haran culture is highly patriarchial, not generally a trait seen in Communist Rhetoric. In my opinion,Da'Hara represents Nazi Germany, and yes the old world certainly represents the Soviet Union and communism. There are many other inaccuracies included in this text, and therefore I am scrapping the entire thing. However, Objectivist symbolism is very important in regards to Terry Goodkind's works, so I do intend to add a rewritten version of said article. Thanks,

--TheRedAnthem 02:10, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Hypnotist?

I erased the section that said he was a hypnotist. I've been a long fan of his and I've never heard of him working as a hypnotist. Also, let me know if anyone has any projects in construction for this page; I'm a massive fan of Terry and I would like to collaborate with anyone on restructuring this page. --IAlan

Formula One

And where did this claim come from - if it is possible to substantiate this claim please revert the edit - but I know of no such race driver and a Formula One racecar driver?? Kevinalewis 09:51, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi, I got that info from a biography posted of him on the Terry Goodkind forums prepared by Ron Wilson (Mystar) and A.D. Hough (Addicted), acknowledged personal friends of Terry. Here's the quote: "He took up interests in such areas as marine and wildlife art, cabinet making, violin making and rare artifact restoration, and believe it or not, he also trained and drove as a Formula One racecar driver. To this day Terry can be seen racing about on the back roads of a small desert town in his super charged Ferrari when he feels the need…the need for speed!" And here's the thread: http://www.terrygoodkind.net/forums/showthread.php?t=638 I don't really know if it's true, but that's where I got it.

Ok, I can see you have a source. But is that source reliable. Trained as I have no way of checking that! "Drove as" this would normally mean that he drove in at least one Formula One race, which I can find no reference for. It could mean that he drove as a team's test driver, which again is more difficult to check. My guess this is one of those apocryphal stories that gets a life of it's own. That he might have an old Formula One car which he drives, again is not immpossible, in fact with his royalties quite possible! I believe this statment should be left out until a verifiable source can be found. Thanks for checking. Kevinalewis : please contact me on my Talk Page : 16:25, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes this ia a true fact. Goodkind did Train as a Formula One Driver. If anyon efeels the need to add this to the page I can provide proofs from Goodkind himself. Mystar 02:35, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Crazy!

"Also, when his novels were accused of being a bit "too preachy" by a fan during the same chat, Goodkind explained to those present who had criticized his writing style with such harsh criticism of the base philosophy and the moral and ethical values contained within the series, saying that they were not fans, and that they hated that his novels existed. He also claimed "their goal is not to enjoy life, but to destroy that which is good... These people hate what is good because it is good." We have seen the full effect and thuth of this fact by the attacks against the values with in the series, against the moral and ethicial set the characters uphold.

With these comments and several others, Goodkind effectively drew a line in the sand, implying that you were either with him or against him....."

Uhm, he's an Objectivist. What do you expect? Alienus 02:40, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually I don't disagree they are not too preachy. What I object to is when people try and hide the message that they are pushing, so that you are potentially taking on the ideas subliminally. At least Terry is upfront, it is obvious but not overpowering. Personally I don't agree with Terry's "Objectivism" but he does write a "Stonking" garn. :: Kevinalewis : 08:53, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

You show your true color when you use such harsh and verbal abuse as crazy and nut case. While you may not like Goodkind or his works, lowering yourself to bring your dislike to a personal low by such an action. You have blatantly misinturpited the interview and Terry's words that is the offense. You are, as you said you would do on your website Malazan Forums, write up something devious to stir up things a bit. While you may well think Goodkind is saying something, you are taking it out of context and making his words fit your scenario. I am a good friend of Goodkind's and I can assure you that the only controversy is in your head. You have no right to try and make Misplaced Pages your soapbox simply because you don't like Goodkind. (unsigned by Mystar1959)

Whatever their motivations, the links seem to be genuine. I don't really care how wonderful a friend he is to you: he actually said the things he is quoted as saying. Alienus 03:11, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

While the links are genuine, the supposed "controversy" is not. It is simply something someone is using as a basis simply because they do not care for Goodkind and wish to place him in a light of their own choosing. It is very interesting AND telling that this poster of the controversy post singles out a specific item and twists it to use as a pejorative and inflammatory. I have more of a problem with the fact that this sad indivadule chooses to state a fact that he CANNOT back, that being "Recently Goodkind has come under fire from critics and fans alike for comments he made about his work". Oddly enough he cannot provide any verification for this boast. mystar1959

If you can show that the quotes are taken out of context so as to be misleading, then you may have a case. Otherwise, I don't see any basis for your complaint. Alienus 04:27, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

go to any message board about literature, anywhere on the internet and mention terry goodkind. i almost guarantee you'll immediately be flamed mercilessly for liking the guy. whether you call it a controversy or not, you can't ridicule your own fans and expect to get away with it. so people like to read the sword of truth books for the fantasy involved. is that so wrong? i literally skipped dozens of pages at a time while reading the last three or four books and didn't feel like i'd missed anything. just because you criticize an author's work, that doesn't mean that you "hate everything that is good omg". richard rahl is the fantasy equivalent of a backwoods hick, yet all of a sudden he can speak for hours about philosophy, use a sword and magic at master levels with no training, and solve any problem, no matter how hard it would be for anyone else. it's shoddy writing but oh noez!!!11!1 since i said that i "hate everything that is good". give me a break. levid37

Well, there you have it! We have a person who has in his own words hates Goodkind. HE hates that Goodkind's works exist. SO because of that he feels it is his task to post misinformation and a slanted post about this person he so hates. That's not an attack of personal slander? We go further, this poor person feel that anyone anywhere can go to any rabid fan site dedicated to the author of other fantasy series and expect nothing but praise and worship for other authors? Again I challenge the validity of his claims. What we have here is as I stated earlier. A sad little person who has little time on his hands but to try and drag his personal crusade onto other respectable sites. Paste his personal crusade to smear and disparage someone simply because he doesn't like what Goodkind has written and written so well that Goodkind has sold millions and millions of books and has become one of the top selling series in fantasy. Yes, yes by al means allow personal smear campaigns like that. It makes Misplaced Pages look like some two bit fantasy rabid fan site with no creditability.

As to the point I made earlier. SHOW ME THE CONTRAVSRY and not just a sad little person bent on a smear campaign. Show me that his post is IN context. Show me the critic that are putting him under fire. I see NO such link, I see no such validation simply that one person has made a statement of his OWN personal feelings.

Fan's may or many not like a work. So what! Not every person will like exactly everything that is written or written by a favored author. SO is that validation to call him names and ridicule? I think not and especially not on such a place as Misplaced Pages. Again we have someone making a claim that he cannot back up. Simply put there is a link to an interview that the poster wishes to place his OWN spin on and that's it. I thought as do many others that Misplaced Pages had a higher standard and was a place for honest, unbiased and factual information, not a two bit rag that allows rabid smear tactics.mystar1959

dude, calm down. I do not HATE terry goodkind and i do not HATE that his works exist. now who's taking someone's words out of context? taking it personal much? and did i say "go to another author's page and talk about goodkind"? no. my exact words were "go to any message board about literature". yeah, i know, "any message board" includes other author's message boards but i assumed that one would know the difference.

and as far as this "hating" terry goodkind, nowhere did i say that i hated him or his works. honestly, i enjoy aspects of his work. enough aspects, in fact, that i would consider myself a fan. but at the same time, i think that other aspects are in fact preachy and overdrawn. but according to the comments made BY THE AUTHOR, you can't do both. you can't be a fan who criticizes. and before you deny that claim, think about this: every time i've ever tried to write any sort of criticism or what i thought of terry or his work on his official website, even if it's filled with glowing praise, as long as it's contained one single, solitary gripe, no matter how small, about the book or his beliefs, it's been immediately deleted by a mod. apparently terry and his mods don't like us ignorant fans dissecting his work. go figure. and btw, you seem to be taking this a little personal. the fact is, goodkind did say those things. so an individual (or group of individuals) doesn't heap praise on an author. that doesn't make it a smear campaign. it's their opinion and they have a right to it. that doesn't automatically mean they "hate what is good." levid37

What you and so many fail to see and rail against is the thematic nature of the series. The brevity, the heroics, heroic and the nobility overcoming with out sacrificing your values and ethics. Seeing in literature a story where one can indeed win with out compromising his nature or values. NOW here the proof is in the truth of your admission. You admit to “skimming pages and chapters, then you feel qualified to give commentary and critique? Please! You just disqualified yourself from any kind of notion that anyone would take you or your comments with anything more than uneducated and unfounded babble Again I'll post the comments, which no one else has done, and show the context. I appreciate and accept the change made to the topic title, which is more fitting, but still not in keeping with what Misplaced Pages was created for and is used for. Lets not allow Misplaced Pages to turn into another all tings go message board for posting things simply because you don’t like that person. Isn’t there enough nastiness in the world? Aren’t there enough places where untoward and tawdry remarks are used to besmirch a person reputation? As I understood it and read it, Misplaced Pages and its nature is not to allow personal vendettas to rule someone’s post. I find I am mistaken.

First I have to be in New York for the next three days, so if you'll forgive my absence until then, I'll only be too happy to provide you with the factual context and where the sad people with no life keep missing the point, context and issue. I will also say this, "enemies are the price of honor". mystar1959

You're right, there is way too much nastiness in the world. So I propose a truce, wherein we can come to an understanding. i for one am willing to put away my biting sarcasm if you're willing to stop calling me uneducated :)

i just want to clarify. i in no way shape or form dislike terry goodkind. i don't dislike his works or his philosophies. he has every right to his beliefs just like anyone else. all i'm saying, is that i personally enjoy his works for their fantasy aspects. i can't help but feel the slightest bit insulted when an author assumes that i hate his works and that i hate his beliefs just because i get a bit bored with the constant philosophical speeches in his novels. and don't think that just because i skip a paragraph or two here and there that i don't fully understand or dislike the ideas he's putting forth. i was exaggerating for the sake of exaggeration when i said i skipped chapters and pages. all i'm saying is that i just feel that sometimes richard or zedd can be a little long-winded in their speeches. you don't have to beat me over the head with a philosophical brick every three pages, i get the idea.

i'll say it again. i don't hate terry goodkind. i don't hate his work. maybe i AM taking his words out of context. i'm willing to give the man the benefit of the doubt. it's the least i can do for the hours of entertainment he's given me, and i'll be happy to rationally discuss the topic til i'm blue in the face.

I fail to see the reason for dissent here. Terry Goodkind's works have been a source of controversy and debate for a long time on many forums (including but not limited to Westeros.org, Malazanempire.com, Wotmania.com, SF.com.rec.arts and others), in critical assessments of the Sword of Truth series and in print reviews. There is a controversy, even if it is relatively mild compared to say, the debates that raged in the past over L. Ron Hubbard's work. I think acknowledging it is merely enough, however. Going into detail (for example, about the Canada incident, the instant self-contradictions etc) is probably pushing the boundaries of Misplaced Pages's fairness. On the other hand, refusing to mention it at all would also be dishonest. --Werthead 18:57, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

There is a theory, which is not mine (it belongs to a brilliant analist), that states that Mystar is Terry. Dyslexia comes up as a supporting argument.

D

Photo

The article says he was born in 1948, so that photo can't be all that recent. Is there one available that isn't quite so old? Alienus 04:06, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes. I just got off the phone with Terry and he stated that he much prefers that photo, but if you give me an e-mail address I'll send you a few recent ones to post. mystar@chartermi.net will reach me faster than webmaster@terrygoodkind.net as I'll be out of town for the next few days. mysar1959

I sent you a letter by email, since you asked. Having said that, anyone can guess my gmail account name without straining their brains. :-)

As I see it, there's no reason for us not to honor his preference for the photo currently up. However, there's also no reason for us to exclude a more recent photo. I can imagine fan coming to a signing and failing to recognize Goodkind because all they've ever seen is this rather dated photo.

It is vital for Misplaced Pages purposes that you state the licensing constraints. Please take a look at this page for details, or just upload the images yourself. Whatever works. Alienus 19:16, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, Mystar1959 was kind enough to provide three recent photos of Goodkind for use here. At his request, I've uploaded them, and I'd like you all to take a look and tell me which one(s) you'd like to add to the article.

Alienus 03:18, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Personally I don't think any of them are necessary, but whatever floats your boat. Btw, that painting he has is awesome! I want it! 63.144.93.66 13:50, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

removal of editorializing

The material I've removed is poorly sourced, and Goodkind's publicist has written to us claiming that the purported interview upon which it is based never took place. I don't believe that this section is relevant to the article anyway. It's unencyclopedic and POV-driven. These sorts of definitional issues are not relevant to Goodkind's life and work. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 15:17, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Biographical information, especially concerning the author's attitude towards writing, is highly relevant. Now, if Goodkind wishes to deny the factuality of the quotes, he's welcome to. It would then be up to us to determine if there is a substantial difference in credibility or if we would do best to simply let both sides speak.

In short, while I'm open to further work on this section, there is no excuse for removing it. In the meantime, let's leave the text alone. If you want to flag it with a sectional POV warning, that's reasonable. If you want to mark parts as uncited, that's also reasonable. Wholesale censorship, however, is unacceptable. Alienus 16:50, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Editing is not censorship. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 18:04, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Correct: censorship is a subset of editing. I suggest that you avoid this subset and stick to more constructive areas. Alienus 18:26, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Blah Blah Blah

Clean up of discussion page?

Would anyone mind if we clean up the discussion page? It's getting quite long now, especially with those images on it.

I'm a huge fan of Terry Goodkind. I'm the one who created all those gazillions of wikipedia SOT articles you see (no thanks required). However, I feel that the section in question on this page should not be removed. It has been re-worded and is no longer POV-driven. I believe it actually puts Goodkind in a favorable light. It shows how he is more than a uthor, he is a novelist and is revolutionizing the fantasy genre. It shows him the way he wants to be seen, using his own words nonetheless (how can that be POV?). If, for some reason, Terry has something against this being shown and wishes to retract or clarify what he said, then that should be added to this article as well, or the section can be modified in some other way if you want... but there's no reason to remove it completely in my opinion, especially since it actually shows Goodkind in a favorable light. Also, I think that the POV tag should be removed. 63.144.93.66 17:22, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Before we shuffle those three images links off into an archive, do you have any opinion on them? Alienus 17:56, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't have an opinion on the images. I don't feel that it's necessary to add them to the page, but I'm not against it. I don't believe anyone would be unable to recognize him at a book signing, especially considering he'd be the one sitting behind the desk with a pen and a stack of his books and a line of people in front of him... Besides, I don't think his appearance has really changed all that much. 63.144.93.66 18:18, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, from the rather unflattering second picture, you might think he's aged a century and now tends to fall asleep while talking, so let's just throw that one out. The first would be ok, but it's a tiny picture, and he's a tiny part of it; I have to squint to see if he's in it at all. The last has a lot going for it, in that it's recent and accurate. The only problem is that it's HUGE. It wouldn't be hard to trim out all the background to leave just Goodkind in a chair, but I'm not sure that I'm the best person for such a task and I suspect that the original source of the image is not going to volunteer to help me on anything. Alienus 18:35, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Well we see just what an ass you realloy are. Just how is it that you assume that someone "tends to fall asleep while talking" jusyt looking at a picture? I think you are clearly showing your biase and why this page is having such problems. The problem is you and your allowing of personal poor judgment into it all. 66.0.21.162 14:54, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

You are violating both WP:AGF and WP:CIVIL, which says a lot about you, and nothing about me. It particularly shows that you have poor judgement and a short temper.

I said that the second picture makes him look very old and as if he tends to fall asleep while talking. You'll note that the photographer caught him in a blink, which is what leads to that perception. I said this to point out why the picture is unacceptable. If I were some insane Goodkind-basher, I'd be insisting on using whatever picture made him look worst.

You owe me an apology, but I'm not holding my breath. Anyone who lacks the courtesy to log in can't be expected to follow other courtesies. Alienus 17:16, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Nobody ever owes anyone an apology. An apology that is given when due cannot truly be an apology in the first place. ℬastique▼♥♑ 19:42, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

The man said it. He dug a hole, which his supporters appear to be unable to realise that they are digging deeper. In any case, its not his writing which disturbs me as much as his dress sense in those photos.

I don't particularly see how calling fantasy a "tired, empty genre" can be looked at in a favorable light. Honestly though, I'm tired of debating it. Every time I try to make a point Goodkind's supporters either ignore it or lash back with insults. As long as the link to the original chat and the link to inchoatous's essay on it stays up I don't care what the article itself says. Anyone who reads either of them will see the truth. It's clear to me now that no criticism of Terry Goodkind will ever exist on wikipedia because GOD FORBID anyone say something unfavorable about someone's favorite author, whether it's true or not. Levid37

I agree that the fantasy genre is tired and empty compared to many other genres. Does that mean I should be looked at negatively as a person? The "truth" you're claiming is your own opinion and wikipedia is NPOV. 24.11.36.143 00:33, 9 May 2006 (UTC)