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Revision as of 06:06, 13 November 2013 editSjakkalle (talk | contribs)Administrators33,817 edits →Clarification: Reply← Previous edit Revision as of 14:23, 19 November 2013 edit undoMarshalN20 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers15,094 edits →A pie for you!: new WikiLove messageNext edit →
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:Sjakkalle has clearly over-stepped his authority Gerda, given the ongoing ArbCom case, but being an administrator he is invulnerable, so best to move on before he tries to silence you as well. ] ] 21:53, 12 November 2013 (UTC) :Sjakkalle has clearly over-stepped his authority Gerda, given the ongoing ArbCom case, but being an administrator he is invulnerable, so best to move on before he tries to silence you as well. ] ] 21:53, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
::I don't understand your allegation that I clearly overstepped my authority. Can you explain how? For the record, I have no desire or intention of "silencing" Gerda, nor do I think that I am invulnerable. ] ] 06:06, 13 November 2013 (UTC) ::I don't understand your allegation that I clearly overstepped my authority. Can you explain how? For the record, I have no desire or intention of "silencing" Gerda, nor do I think that I am invulnerable. ] ] 06:06, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

== A pie for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
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|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Thank you for voting to unblock me. I agree with your method of warning prior to enforcement. It gives a better position to demonstrate whether the editor in good faith made a mistake, or if the editor simply wants to purposely break the ban. ] | ] 14:23, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
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Revision as of 14:23, 19 November 2013

Welcome to my talkpage!

Ordinarily, any comments placed here will stay, and only simple vandalism will be reverted. If you wish to make a personal attack against me it will stay for everyone to see. Someone else will judge whether an attack says more about you or about me however.

Note that I am quite inconsistent with where I make responses.

  • If it is a response I think several people might be interested in reading, I might respond here. Otherwise, I will probably respond on your talkpage.
  • I do not respond to every message (most notably RFA thank you notices), although I normally reply to requests and questions. Sometimes I am unable or do not have the time to do so (or I see that the problem has already been fixed). If I don't respond to your posting, please forgive me.

Archives of previous talkpages

Closure comment

You made the comment closing the discussion that CSD#A3 endorsed speedy deletion. Speedy deletion of any redirect was prohibited from using A3 until the end of the discussion, all !votes prior to the change of the !rule should not have been taken into consideration and deletion based on consensus not speedy deletion should have been the correct closure.Camelbinky (talk) 15:55, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

(I'm on break now but since an administrator is obliged to respond to queries on admin actions I'll reply.)
(The discussion concerns the DRV of Ginifer King, see Misplaced Pages:Deletion review/Log/2013 July 22)
The WP:CSD rules do not function the same way as judicial laws. They are interpreted by the community. That means that the spirit of the rule (that is, the intended effect of the rule) supersedes the literal wording of the rule, and that is a view shared by most of the community. One of the intentions of CSD A3 was to prohibit pages consisting solely of a link to an external page. However, it was also accepted by the community that we in some cases should have a sort of link to a sister project, usually Wiktionary, for subjects that have an article there but not on Misplaced Pages. Therefore the "soft redirect" exception was carved out. The spirit of the exception in A3 was to allow for such cross-wiki links; it was never intended as a loophole to allow pages of external links covered up by the soft redirect template. The fact that the literal wording allowed it was in all likelihood an oversight.
Closing the DRVs are based on consensus. It is well within the rights of the community to decide that the spirit of A3 supersedes the literal wording of A3. It was the community that made rule A3, and so it is the community's right to interpret how A3 should be enforced. Had DRV been a court of criminal law, where I was a judicial judge presiding, and the redirect in question were a defendant on trial, I would have agreed with you. It wouldn't have been proper to convict someone unless they had violated the literal wording of the law beyond a reasonable doubt. But DRV is not a court of law, and my role there is more a steward of consensus rather than a judicial judge. The consensus was overwhelmingly that the page ran afoul of the scope that A3 was intended to cover, and my close was in accordance with that.
While I have butted heads with a few admins in the past weeks, I think you will be very hard pressed to find an admin who would have closed that discussion differently. Sjakkalle (Check!) 18:10, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Still lurking around...

Hi Sjakkalle, sorry for the late reply...as you can see, I'm still lurking around, but I'm mainly reading articles these days and trying to ignore all the rest. I may return to editing some day, but don't count the days :P anyway, just wanted to drop by and say thanks for your very nice post. I'm positively surprised you even remembered me :) Oh, and one thing I never said: I still remember you having the balls to block Tony Sidaway all those years ago. That was the moment I realized that I may have done lots of things on Misplaced Pages, some of which may have been useful, most of which may have been useless and forgotten, but the one really good thing I did on here was nominating you for adminship :) All the best, Ferkelparade π 23:31, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi! You messaged me right in my break, so apologies for not answering sooner. Yes, I remember that incident from several years ago that happened during the disputes over how far IAR stretched and prior to any formal rules on wheel-warring. Anyway, good to know that your eyes are still on the project. :-) Sjakkalle (Check!) 04:31, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Article Feedback Tool update

Hey Sjakkalle. I'm contacting you because you're involved in the Article Feedback Tool in some way, either as a previous newsletter recipient or as an active user of the system. As you might have heard, a user recently anonymously disabled the feedback tool on 2,000 pages. We were unable to track or prevent this due to the lack of logging feature in AFT5. We're deeply sorry for this, as we know that quite a few users found the software very useful, and were using it on their articles.

We've now re-released the software, with the addition of a logging feature and restrictions on the ability to disable. Obviously, we're not going to automatically re-enable it on each article—we don't want to create a situation where it was enabled by users who have now moved on, and feedback would sit there unattended—but if you're interested in enabling it for your articles, it's pretty simple to do. Just go to the article you want to enable it on, click the "request feedback" link in the toolbox in the sidebar, and AFT5 will be enabled for that article.

Again, we're very sorry about this issue; hopefully it'll be smooth sailing after this :). If you have any questions, just drop them at the talkpage. Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) 21:40, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Regarding JetBrains deletion

Hi Sjakkalle, I've drafted a new article which hopefully meets all guidelines and overcomes the objections raised previously. Please let me know what you think: User:Eugenia_d/sandbox --Eugenia d (talk) 06:46, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

I have taken a look at the article. I can see that you have put a sincere effort into the draft, but there are a couple of concerns that are nagging me a little.
  1. The article is very focused on the products and business model. That is, very focused on material that you would expect the company to write about itself. Don't get me wrong here, it is very important that encyclopedia articles on a company cover this aspect, and I do not think that the tone in the article is overly promotional. But ideally, a Misplaced Pages article should offer something more than what one expect to see on a company website.
  2. I looked through the sources, and found that many of them, and got the impression that some of the text was press release material, or product notifications. Texts like this just don't look particularily independent.
My estimate is that the article in its current state would have an approximately 50% chance of receiving approval by the community at DRV. The positives are that there is a long list of sources, so WP:GNG might be met, but the concerns that I have make me unsure. Sjakkalle (Check!) 19:04, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
1. I've drafted a paragraph about the company's abandoned projects. This does not look like something a company would boast about, but may be insightful for other entrepreneurs.
Please let me know if this meets your expectations. If not, could you offer an example of more suitable content or direct me to the relevant guidelines please?
2. All the articles listed as sources are actually independent, which does not contradict the fact they may use company's news for their sources of information. Unfortunately I managed to prove some facts only by articles which don't have much editorial input. Nevertheless, there are no press releases among them.
I've replaced the link you mentioned with another one, but it's in German. Does this work better? Eugenia d (talk) 17:17, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
It is certainly an improvement. I understand your point about the sources being independent, but a source that is based on information from the company information is an issue that members of the community might consider a deficiency. I used a translation program to look at the German source and I think I got the gist of it, and it too seems to be centered around a company announcement. But as I said, your effort has improved the draft and its chances.
My predictions of what the community thinks are not always correct, and the only way really to know whether consensus will be with restoration of the article is to request it at WP:DRV where you can point out the draft and the reasons you think that the sources are sufficient to pass WP:N. If it does not succeed, then it is an evaluation of the subject, not of your effort which certainly has been good. Sjakkalle (Check!) 17:39, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Given that the article has been rewritten from scratchCSD#G4, can I simply recreate and deal with WP:DRV if the issue is raised? Or should I submit the draft for WP:DRV myself? Eugenia d (talk) 19:26, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Good question! I have compared the deleted version (which is available in a userfied version at User:Be nt all/JetBrains) with your version, and I do not consider them substantially identical. I therefore think you can recreate the article without running afoul of CSD G4, if the issue is brought up, it will be at WP:AFD rather than WP:DRV. Sjakkalle (Check!) 05:09, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

List of members of the Parliament of Norway, 2013–2017

Hello, Sjakkalle, and thank you for your contributions!

Some text in an article that you worked on List of members of the Parliament of Norway, 2013–2017, appears to be directly copied from another Misplaced Pages article, List of members of the Parliament of Norway, 2009–2013. Please take a minute to double-check that you've properly attributed the source text in your edit summary.

It's entirely possible that this bot made a mistake, so please feel free to remove this notice and the tag it placed on List of members of the Parliament of Norway, 2013–2017 at any time.Template:Z128 MadmanBot (talk) 16:02, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 27

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White and black

are not proper nouns in standard usage. In the chess world this may be different, but that is not relevant. In many companies' literature, terms like "director" and "treasurer" are capitalized, but not in Misplaced Pages. This appears to be no different. Primergrey (talk) 20:49, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

  • "Standard usage" as WP:MOSCAPS calls for cannot mean anything else than what you will find in the sources discussing the topic. Considering that Misplaced Pages policy is to not use anything not supported by sources, what the sources universally say must be relevant. A few of the de-capitalizations were correct, and Cobblet has reinstated those. However, I have to agree with Bubba73 that an edit where the majority of de-capitalizations were incorrect, such as "Queen's Gambit Accepted" to "queen's gambit accepted" (the former is the name of a chess opening, the second says that a gambit belonging to the queen accepted something), will usually end up with the whole edit being reverted so that the correct ones can be inserted afterwards. Regarding White/white and Black/black, they are capitalised when they are used to refer to the player thus functioning as a proper noun substitution, but not if they are used as an adjective, therefore "In chess, White moves first", but "In chess, the player of the white pieces moves first". Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:07, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Chuck Harder

Hello Sjakkalle, will you reconsider the deletion of the Chuck Harder page? He was a notable talk show host. I remember listening to him on short wave (WWCR) here in Massachusetts, even though he was based in Florida, so that should be an indication that he was notable. Also, see this link for a few samples of his show: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%22chuck+harder%22+for+the+people — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitzi777 (talk • contribs) 14:27, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Clarification

You seem not to be aware of the fact that the arbitrators were requested to clarify what you are so sure to know, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:49, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

There is nothing to clarify. The banning policy says (with my emphases)
"Unless otherwise specified, a ban is a site ban. An editor who is site-banned is forbidden from making any edit, anywhere on Misplaced Pages, via any account or as an unregistered user, under any and all circumstances. The only exception is that editors with talk page access may appeal in accordance with the provisions below."
Assuming that the page was written in the English language, there is no interpretation of that rule that allows KF to edit his user talk page for any other purpose than to appeal. The request could and should have gone directly to the "Requests for enforcement" section of the arbitration page. If ArbCom believes that I am mistaken, I believe they will tell me so. Sjakkalle (Check!) 18:55, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
I read the passage that you quote several times now. English is not my first language, but why the project would reject members adding constructive contributions is beyond my understanding in any language, - see the top of my talk, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:03, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
The explanation for why banned editors are prevented from making any edits whatsoever is described in WP:BMB ("banned means banned"). You are free to disagree with that policy, but there is strong consensus for it. Sjakkalle (Check!) 19:06, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
Sjakkalle has clearly over-stepped his authority Gerda, given the ongoing ArbCom case, but being an administrator he is invulnerable, so best to move on before he tries to silence you as well. Eric Corbett 21:53, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
I don't understand your allegation that I clearly overstepped my authority. Can you explain how? For the record, I have no desire or intention of "silencing" Gerda, nor do I think that I am invulnerable. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:06, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

A pie for you!

Thank you for voting to unblock me. I agree with your method of warning prior to enforcement. It gives a better position to demonstrate whether the editor in good faith made a mistake, or if the editor simply wants to purposely break the ban. MarshalN20 | 14:23, 19 November 2013 (UTC)