Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 13:46, 14 June 2006

La page du parle du Proto
Archive 1 (March 05 - August 05)
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Archive 5 (December 05 - February 06)
Archive 6 (February 06 - March 06)
Archive 7 (March 06 - May 06)

Please place your comments at the bottom of the talk page.

I may reply on here, or on your talk page. It depends how whimsical I'm feeling.

This talk page is archived when I feel like it. Usually when it goes over 30k.

Wheeeeeeee.

New administrators - please direct your RFA thanks message (or the messages where you curse me for opposing you, whatever) to User talk:Proto/RFAs. I will read it, don't worry.

24 December 2024
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Musical Interval mnemonics

Hi Proto, I notice that you deleted Musical Interval mnemonics and I have read your decision at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Musical Interval mnemonics. I'm surprised by the outcome given the plurality of voices that requested a keep. I think the article was quite poorly written, badly organized and incomplete, but still I don't see why the general content should be considered unworthy. If you really are planning to transwiki the content, I might suggest that it go somewhere around here, if not, then I'd like some explanation as to why you are ignoring the majority opinion in the debate. Thanks, -MrFizyx 15:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Ah, OK, I didn't know it would become its own wikibook. Thanks. How about the red link to the article from Interval (music) can we hard link that to the the wikibook or should I move that down to an external link? I don't know the custom for linking across wikis. -MrFizyx 17:35, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Merci beaucoup!

Thank you,Fish and karate! Thank you for voting for my recent RfA, which passed (to my extreme surprise and shock) with a total tally of 66/15/2. Although you didn't give me a support vote, I would nevertheless like to thank you for your helpful comments and offer a helping hand in any admin-related tasks that may be required -- it's as simple as leaving a message on my talkpage. Thanks again! -→Buchanan-Hermit™/!? 22:40, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of LIP6

Under speedy deletion criterion A8, Misplaced Pages's written policy states: "Before deleting any page under this criterion, an admin should verify that the page creator has been notified — if not, the admin should do so." It seems that no good faith effort was made to work with the page's creator in order to address the copyvio concern. An e-mail would have been appropriate. But even if we consider that flagging the page for deletion constitutes "notice", some reasonable amount of time must be allowed for response. The deletion was made less than two and a half hours after the page was flagged!

In fact, the page creator is the copyright holder. This could easily have been inferred from looking at the page. The copyvio issue could have been dealt with in an instant. There are other issues that were raised, though these were not the basis for deletion, and they could also have been dealt with through dialogue. At the very least, the images should be restored, so that the page creator can tag them with the appropriate copyright information, and they can be included in a rewritten article. MyPOV 8:53, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Update: Thank you for your comment on my talk page. I was referring to the original article, and not my subsequent article following your deletion. CSD A8 states that notification should take place "Before deleting any page". You closed the discussion on deletion at 12:41, ChantalPerrichon was notified at 13:00, after you'd deleted the article and all associated images. Furthermore, to meet CSD A8, the article must be "unquestionably copied from the website of a commercial content provider". A university research lab is not unquestionably a commercial content provider, it is more likely a nonprofit organization. To meet CSD A8, it must be the case that "no assertion of permission or fair use... seems likely". Again, not the case: The page clearly came from LIP6, and, if there were any doubts, a Google on "Chantal Perrichon" would reveal that she is the director of communications for LIP6. The remark regarding the failure to follow written procedure still stands. As does the comment regarding the lack of a good faith effort to work with a new user. Any concern about copyvio could have been dealt with in a minute by communicating properly with the uploader. The subsequent actions of RasputinAXP do nothing to dispel the impression that there might well be a culture of trigger-happy administrators who are prepared to delete first, and respect their own written guidelines only if someone calls them on it. MyPOV 19:44, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Update: Thank you for your follow-up comment. I understand what you are saying: that there was a copyvio, and that Misplaced Pages needs to be especially careful in such situations. I also understand you to be saying that you take a different view on the question of whether any assertion of fair use might have seemed likely. Even if we concede both points, it is still clear that an administrator (yourself) has acted here in violation of Misplaced Pages's written policies, which are meant to deal with precisely such a situation. CSD A8 can only be applied if the article was "unquestionably copied from the website of a commercial content provider". And application of CSD A8 requires that the administrator notify the author before deletion, not after. Policy is also clear about what needs to be done if a speedy deletion was incorrectly carried out, and I am sure you will do the right thing. MyPOV 01:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Update: Thank you again for your reply. All I'm asking is that you, as an administrator, apply policy, and not substitute your personal opinion (all apparent copyvio has to be dealt with immediately) for the written guidelines (under CSD A8, certain things can be dealt with immediately, but if its not unquestionably copied from the website of a commercial content provider then it must go the slower route, which, incidentally, gives time for the uploader to respond to the issues). Your integrity as an administrator is engaged here. If you disagree with Misplaced Pages's stance on what gets deleted right away, and what goes through a longer process that allows for modifications and corrections, you can work, as a person of responsibility in the Misplaced Pages community, to get those terms changed. (You can also work to get the notification timing requirement changed, as you clearly believe that it shouldn't be binding.) Regarding what to do now, I think the standard procedure is pretty clear: If the speedy deletion was in error, the administrator responsible reverses the error by restoring the page. Please feel free to overwrite the small article I put in place in the meantime. MyPOV 10:59, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Update: Hello again. Based on your most recent reply, it seems we would need to take this to mediation. None of your responses have addressed the fact that CSD A8 applies only for commercial content, which this is not. The Misplaced Pages policies clearly involve a balancing of priorities. They recognize that copyvio is a problem, but that the degree of the problem must be balanced against the problem that is caused when a new user invests considerable time and effort, and then finds their work deleted with nary a chance to respond. An administrator has a responsibility to not only be zealous about copyvio, but also to welcome new users into the community, and to help them to do the correct thing. I will research the best way to proceed for mediation. In the meantime, if you wish to restore the images, you can get them off the French version of this same page. It would be wonderful if you could work with ChantalPerrichon, on a restored page, to shepherd her in learning the ways of Misplaced Pages. MyPOV 11:43, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Update: Hello. I'm happy to agree to your request, and hold off until June 5th before going to mediation. I'm not sure that I agree with your contention that a person who masters MediaWiki markup is necessarily an old hand at Misplaced Pages. MediaWiki is popular software for building all sorts of collaborative websites. Be that as it may, your contention is that there was copyvio. Then, by all means, as a responsible administrator, apply Misplaced Pages's procedures for dealing with copyvio. Please note, however, that for non-commercial copyvio, these procedures take days, not hours, and they allow other alternatives to deletion, such as working with the uploader to correct the situation. Despite my raising the question four times over the course of our dialogue in the past few days, I'm still very much at a loss, in reading your answers, to understand what your position is regarding the part of CSD A8 that states that an article must be "unquestionably copied from the website of a commercial content provider" in order to be eligible for speedy deletion under this criterion. MyPOV 00:40, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Update: Hello. Given that you agree that CSD A8 does not apply in this case, I am at a loss to understand why you invoked it when deleting the page. It is important for an administrator to be clear and accountable in their actions. You could simply have said from the beginning that no speedy deletion criterion applied, but that, in your own personal judgment, speedy deletion was nontheless merited. Furthermore, CSD A8 says the following: If the deleting administrator is notified of an error, and finds the claim of error plausible, he should restore the content immediately. It appears now that you agree that there was an error (the content was not commercial) and that there was an error in how you carried out the actions (you deleted before rather than after providing notice), yet again you substitute your own judgment for the considered policy of Misplaced Pages. These positions strike me as quite worrisome for Misplaced Pages, which accords adminship in order to support its policies. I am wondering if the appropriate next step is something other than mediation, which would only affect the outcome for this page. I'm still reading up on this, but it seems it might be better to proceed to a request for comments on whether your actions are consistent with the responsibility granted to administrators. I see from your first request for adminship that this is not the first time that these sorts of concerns have been raised with regards to your actions. MyPOV 22:19, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

List of proper nouns containing an exclamation mark

Hi,

Just so you know, I have closed the very confusing DRV on this article. In my judgment, the deletion, undeletion, reopening, reclosing, renaming and redeletion of this article that occurred during the DRV marred any attempt at a definite consensus. Based on the comments rendered after this sequence of events occurred, I have found a consensus to restore the article and begin debate afresh. I advise you of this because you had deleted the article previously. Please allow this debate to run the full five days, so that this matter might be settled well and completely. Thanks, Xoloz 03:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Blnguyen's RfA

Good call, it would appear

Guettarda 19:16, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Some jackass...

...just deleted the Skeletor pic off my user page. I mean, seriously. Marskell 22:08, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

List of every NHL player

You just redeleted the NHL players A through G after it was agreed to bring them back out of deletion. What are your reasons? There are some pretty useless lists here on wikipedia. but this is not one of them. The vast majority of lists on wikipedia are not complete. These ones are over 99% complete and actually serve a purpose. Masterhatch 17:55, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Deletion review#National Hockey League player lists. They were restored for a reason. BoojiBoy 19:58, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

List of Critical Mass rides

Proto, why did you delete the List of Critical Mass rides?! (See deletion log)

It was really useful and was unbiased! Is there any way to get a copy of the original wikitext, which could be put on a Wikia project page?

--Nsayers 18:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Credit where credit is due

Sorry, just came across this, and I must say, I have instant respect for anyone who uses the phrase 'gentle caress with a fish'. :) --InShaneee 21:31, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Missing images

I was working on prototype chinese strucutre page merge when all of the image links suddenly went red. What happened? TomStar81 21:15, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Never mind, I see that you deleted them. Is there any way that they can be brought back? TomStar81 22:01, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I think all take you up on that, but could you place them here instead? That would make reorganizeing them that much easier. TomStar81 05:48, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Condescension

Piss off. And next time, perhaps learn the rollback policy before dishing out rude and condescending lectures about it.

For the record, there is absolutely nothing in policy preventing rollback from being used where the reverts are for completely obvious reasons and there is no need for an edit summary. In this case, the user is trying to prolong a sustained edit war by spreading it to the article on a Wikipedian's unrelated project, and in the case of such an act, it's pretty damned obvious why he's being reverted not only by myself, but an number of other editors. I thus use rollback, as it is a complete waste of time to go through the extra few page loads just to have a personalised edit summary of "rv" instead of the automated rollback one. Time that could actually be spent editing the encyclopedia. Rebecca 00:56, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your support in this, Proto. I see Rebecca adds gross incivility to the repertoire of her unacceptable behaviour. Not that her comment is really worth replying to, but, as my edit history shows, I had never edited any of the articles involved in the "sustained edit war" I was supposedly trying to prolong, which I wasn't even aware of! Margana 15:09, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Platypus

Platypus is a name and for that reason has a capital. See WP:TOL. -- Kim van der Linde 15:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Platypus falls under the WP:TOL subproject Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Monotremes_and_Marsupials, which for common names points to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Birds#Bird_names_and_article_titles which state: The common name of a species is always capitalised to differentiate it from more general terms. Hope this clarifies. -- Kim van der Linde 18:11, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it makes a lot of sense, and it is for birds for example quite normal to do so in the scientific literature although I am pretty sure you can find exceptions. -- Kim van der Linde 10:01, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

"You would capitalise "Common Starling", but you would not capitalise "starling". Surely that makes sense?"

That does make sense, and that is what happens. Starlings are from the family Sturnidae, and as the term is so broad, there is nothing that needs capitalisation. However, if someone is to say common starling, one is not to know whether it is the actual Common Starling or whether it is a starling which is common wherever the person lives. It just decreases ambiguity. As for Cane Toad and Platypus, they are a specific species. You don't capitalise toad as it is a broad term, but you capitalise Cane Toad. Yes, there is no chance of ambiguity with Platypus, but that was just the choice of the editors of the article to use capitalisation. --liquidGhoul 00:46, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand why Platypus should not be capitalised. It is a specific name, there is only one Platypus. --liquidGhoul 07:01, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

CrazyRussian's RfA

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Taran Rampersad

Hi Proto, could you take a look at this AfD which is about to expire? I feel that you may wish to relist it as the article clearly merits deletion and I believe that it would be so if it recieved more discussion. Anyway, please do look at it. Thanks --Strothra 13:46, 14 June 2006 (UTC)