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Revision as of 01:55, 17 December 2013 editIantresman (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users21,376 edits →Statement by (username)← Previous edit Revision as of 02:01, 17 December 2013 edit undoTheRedPenOfDoom (talk | contribs)Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers135,756 edits →Request concerning BarleybannocksNext edit →
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The article {{la|Rupert Sheldrake}} has come under attack by a number of SPA and pseudoscience pushing accounts after Sheldrake recently made public comments about the article no longer presenting his ideas in the unquestioned fashion that he preferred. One of those SPAs is Barleybannocks. The article {{la|Rupert Sheldrake}} has come under attack by a number of SPA and pseudoscience pushing accounts after Sheldrake recently made public comments about the article no longer presenting his ideas in the unquestioned fashion that he preferred. One of those SPAs is Barleybannocks.
The user's refusal to come to terms with the fact that Sheldrake's work is widely considered pseudoscience (see ) appears to be at the basis of their ] editing on the talk page which makes it impossible to make any progress on the article and helps create Walls of Text that drive other more moderate editors away. Request that the user be banned from editing any pseudoscience articles or topics, broadly construed. (although the ban may only be needed for Rupert Sheldrake broadly construed as they are an SPA who have not touched any other articles.) -- ] 21:54, 16 December 2013 (UTC) The user's refusal to come to terms with the fact that Sheldrake's work is widely considered pseudoscience (see ) appears to be at the basis of their ] editing on the talk page which makes it impossible to make any progress on the article and helps create Walls of Text that drive other more moderate editors away. Request that the user be banned from editing any pseudoscience articles or topics, broadly construed. (although the ban may only be needed for Rupert Sheldrake broadly construed as they are an SPA who have not touched any other articles.) -- ] 21:54, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
:Per iantresman, all the others that hold that Sheldrake's work is not generally considered pseudoscience should also be banned from the article. -- ] 02:01, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
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    Arthur Rubin

    Arthur Rubin is blocked for a week.  Sandstein  13:13, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Arthur Rubin

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    - MrX 16:22, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Arthur Rubin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Tea Party movement#Arthur Rubin topic-banned
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 1 December 2013 Attempted proxy editing in violation of WP:PROXYING.
    2. 5 December 2013 Talk page comment about the reliability of a source.
    3. 6 December 2013 Further talk page comment about the reliability of a source, after being warned about the TBan restriction.
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required - not required, but included to demonstrate that a good faith effort was made to avoid this forum)
    1. Warned on 1 December 2013 by RL0919 (talk · contribs)
    2. Warned on 5 December 2013 by MilesMoney (talk · contribs)
    3. Warned on 6 December 2013 by MrX (talk · contribs)
    4. Warned on 7 December 2013 by MilesMoney (talk · contribs)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The attempted proxy editing speaks for itself. Arthur Rubin's comments at Talk:Political activities of the Koch brothers seem to be prohibited by the ARBCOM sanction in the Tea Party Movement case. The article falls within the scope of "all pages relating to the Tea Party movement, broadly construed" inasmuch as the article contains cited references to the Koch's involvement with the Tea Party (here; second paragraph; two citations) and here ("An organization with ties to the Koch Brothers, Freedom Partners, gave grants worth a total of $236 million to conservative organizations, including Tea Party groups like the Tea Party Patriots..."; three citations. In the past, Arthur Rubin has been involved in talk page discussion in which the connection between the Koch's and the Tea Party movement were discussed, for example Fred and the John Birch Society. There are reliable sources that clearly make a connection between the Koch's and the Tea Party that are not currently cited in the article.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Notification

    Discussion concerning Arthur Rubin

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Arthur Rubin

    My apologies. Although the paragraph in question has no connection to the TPm, the article does, so I shouldn't be making comments about it. I'll keep that in mind in the future. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:30, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by MrX

    @Georgewilliamherbert - There are no other articles or cases that I am aware of, nor should that be a requirement. I am very concerned that an TBanned editor, admin and ARBCOM candidate would ask Arzel, who was involved in the same (Tea Party Movement) ARBCOM case, to edit by proxy in violation of WP:PROXYING. Note also that Arthur Rubin seems to have ignored all four warnings, and only acknowledged the violation after this enforcement request was opened. A simple "official warning" is necessary, but far from sufficient given his transparent attempt to GAME the system.- MrX 17:51, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

    @A Quest for Knowledge: This is not the venue for appealing an ARBCOM decision. Perhaps you should open your own request so that you don't inadvertently disrupt this very specific request for enforcement. Thanks. - MrX 04:15, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by The Devil's Advocate

    I do not believe the Political activities of the Koch brothers article falls entirely within the scope of the Tea Party arbitration case as their political activities predate the Tea Party. That said, although the talk page comments in question do not explicitly concern the Tea Party, the fact the Koch brothers were funding Tea Party candidates in some fashion in2012 probably means details about any activities during the 2012 election should be generally considered within the scope of the discretionary sanctions. Since it is a bit on the edge, I do not think there should be any action taken against Rubin for those comments. As to the proxy editing, he did pull back from that so I think it should not be considered either. He should be strongly advised against further such actions in the future but that is all.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 21:33, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

    AQFK, only ArbCom can lift an arbitration remedy. The AE admins can only review sanctions imposed through AE.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 04:10, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
    The decision explicitly says the topic ban is to be appealed to ArbCom. Generally, only discretionary sanctions are appealed at AE. I am not sure of any case where arbitration remedies can be appealed to AE.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 05:01, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

    Comment by A Quest for Knowledge

    I think it would be helpful to take a step back and re-examine why the sanctions against Arthur Rubin were enacted in the first place. ArbCom found that this editor had "repeatedly edit warred". However, they only found 4 diffs(, , , spanning the course of 5 months (February 17, 2013 to July 16, 2013). In what crazy, bizarre world are 4 diffs over 5 months considered edit-warring? That's less than one revert per month for heaven's sake. If we sanctioned every editor who ever reverted another editor less than once a month, there would be precious few of use left to edit. Never mind the fact that many editors consider WP:BRD to be a best practice.
    I opened an RfC regarding this crazy decision and not a single member of the community agreed with it and not a single member of ArbCom was willing to defend it.
    Therefore, I respectfully ask that AE re-examine this sanction, do the right thing and remove it. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 03:54, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

    @MrX:@The Devil's Advocate: ArbCom sanctions can be appealed at AE per the AE header instructions: "Arbitration decisions may provide that appeals against sanctions imposed under the decision are to be appealed to this noticeboard or to another community forum." These particular sanctions imposed by ArbCom have absolutely no basis in policy and fly in the face of community consensus. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 04:50, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by MONGO

    Broadly construed is right...perhaps overly broad. While the evidence posted by MrX indicates Arthur isn't following the Tban remedy perfectly, it's still a stretch to say he is actually in violation. So is Arthur and the others that are Tbanned supposed to avoid all articles that have even the most peripheral mention of anything related to the Tea Party? In essence that appears to be the case. So that would mean all alleged members of the Tea Party, any group or entity that has ever had any affiliation like fund raising or open support of the Tea Party and even persons and groups that are opposed to the Tea Party...maybe had the arbitration committee been a lot less vague on this matter, it would have been a lot clearer to all when a real violation has occurred.--MONGO 06:19, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

    I think its important that Arthur and all those that have been topic banned from anything "broadly construed" to the Tea Party movement should now know that this means more than 500 articles are off limits...articles such as Morgan Freeman (since he thinks the Tea Party is racist, nevermind that they have Herman Cain and endorsed Tim Scott ...Arthur, big no-no to edit those articles as a heads up!), Ronald Reagan, Immigration reduction in the United States and United States House of Representatives elections in North Carolina, 2012 to name but a few. While the actions of the Koch family and their conservative sponsorship has been well known for years, the Tea Party movement is but the latest of a long list of conservative causes they have sponsored and endorsed....so what. Should Arthur stay away form anything broadly construed to be even tangetially related to the Tea Party movement...yes, looks that way and I'm sure he will do that within reason, but that really narrows the pot and if sanctioned here, then that opens up doors for even more peripheral rationales to implement sanctions.--MONGO 16:22, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

    I added the discretionary sanctions boilerplate to the Political activities of the Koch brothers article just now , but I'm not an admin so I don't know if I can do this. That boilerplate is now on the page, but it would be pretty easy to miss it....as dense as I am I would want the thing to flash red lights or something.--MONGO 21:09, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by RL0919

    I tried advising Arthur that he was playing with fire (one diff is in MrX's report, here's another), but he kept at it. He clearly knows, and knew at the time he made some of the edits, that he he has been doing things that could be subject to enforcement action. Not acting will simply tell him to keep going. Not acting because he is running for ArbCom would be even worse, since it would announce to other sanctioned editors that a run for ArbCom provides a free window (of over a month) for ignoring their sanctions. Count yourselves blessed that the election ends minutes from now, so you can avoid the issue of disqualifying him during the vote. As for any election steps after that, there are others who can figure out what the impact is if 1) he meets the voting threshold, and 2) any block is still in place when results are announced and/or he would have to take office.

    @A Quest For Knowledge: The decision in the relevant case specifically says that the topic ban "may be appealed to the Arbitration Committee after no less than six months have passed from the closing of this case." I don't see anything to indicate the decision allows for appeals here, and certainly not for this particular sanction at this time.

    @MONGO: For the sake of argument, let's say the topic ban does affect over 500 articles. That leaves over 4.4 million non-redirect articles, and millions of other pages, on which Arthur can fully participate. If it were plausible that he didn't know a page he edited was connected to the topic, I would be sympathetic, but that isn't the case here. --RL0919 (talk) 23:31, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by Goethean

    Result concerning Arthur Rubin

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    Are there any other articles or incidents related to the ban? This by itself seems like it's about worthy of only an official notification to confirm Arthur's acknowledgement that the article should be off limits going forwards. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 17:27, 7 December 2013 (UTC) Striking, recusing - possible appearance of involvement or conflict of interest with another Arbcom candidate in this election. Forgot temporarily that he was running. My apologies. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 18:14, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

    • Arthur should be reminded that edits like this one to User talk:Arzel are forbidden by the language of WP:TBAN, since he is saying that his ban prevents him from editing the article but he wants someone else to do it. It would also make sense for us to add the banner {{Discretionary sanctions|topic=tpm}} at Talk:Political activities of the Koch brothers, to be sure that people know it is in the scope of the Tea Party sanctions. EdJohnston (talk) 18:03, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
    • I'm disinclined to let Arthur off with a slap on the wrist. He fails to address all the issues raised by MrX, and the request to another editor to theoretically circumvent his topic ban should not be excused.--Bbb23 (talk) 18:09, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
    • I'm inclined to agree with Bbb23 here. The request for proxy editing was a blatant violation, as a topic ban forbids all editing regarding the topic in question in any namespace, except for a few limited exceptions. Requesting that someone else make an edit is certainly not one of those exceptions. Given several violations and repeated warnings, I think a stronger measure than yet another warning is in order. Seraphimblade 18:15, 7 December 2013 (UTC) Just saw GWH's edit, and I forgot that too. I'll recuse from this one. Seraphimblade 18:16, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
    • I also think that enforcement action would be appropriate. Arthur Rubin's acknowledgment of his error in his response might allow us to overlook the edit of 5 December, but not the attempt at proxy editing of 1 December which makes mention of the topic ban, and also not the talk page comment of 6 December, which occurred after he was warned about his ban. Considering that the enforcement provision allows blocks of up to a month for first infractions, and that we face two (or three) cases of wilful violations of a sanction, I think that a two-week block is appropriate.  Sandstein  19:13, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
    • @Sandstein: I'd rather avoid the complexities of blocking a current Arbcom candidate. Since the election is over at 23:59 on December 9 maybe we can postpone any decision till then. Arthur's edits are unlikely to create havoc and chaos in the intervening time. EdJohnston (talk) 20:16, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
    ah... I would think it cleaner to stay recused, just on general principle. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 20:43, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
    I'd agree with GWH. Seraphimblade 23:44, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
    • What would be the repercussions of blocking Arthur before December 9? What would be the repercussions of blocking Arthur after December 9 but before the results are announced?--Bbb23 (talk) 00:30, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
    I would have thought Arthur might perhaps be let off with a warning on this occasion, since he appears to be contrite, but if there's a consensus to block, I don't see why the fact that he happens to be a candidate for Arbcom should be considered an obstacle. Gatoclass (talk) 05:16, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
    I also don't think the election matters here; it's not as though there is any rule that candidacy provides immunity from sanctions. In reply to A Quest for Knowledge, AE may under certain circumstances hear appeals against sanctions enforcing a Committee decision, but the decision itself is not subject to appeal, as the Committee is the final dispute resolution authority (see WP:AP). As concerns whether the article Political activities of the Koch brothers is related to the Tea Party movement, "broadly construed", a Google search for "tea party koch brothers" yields some 1 million results, and it's apparent from the search results that the political activities of the Koch brothers are related to the Tea Party movement in some way.  Sandstein  08:43, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
    Blocked people can't run for Arbcom. The question is whether the closing admin's decision here might affect the outcome of the election. ("An editor is eligible to stand as a candidate who: ... is in good standing and not subject to active blocks or site-bans... "). EdJohnston (talk) 18:47, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
    I agree with Sandstein and with Gatoclass about the ArbCom issue. Arthur met the criteria for running at the time he submitted his candidacy. If he is blocked, I suppose it would be up to the Election Committee whether his candidacy must be withdrawn. Even if he is blocked later but before he took office (if elected), it could be a problem that someone would have to sort out. Putting aside the procedural complexities, I think it would be wrong for us not to block him or to delay blocking him if there's a consensus for the block. It's not whether there would be further disruption. There are issues of transparency and trust (not that I'm claiming any "bad" motives on Ed's part as I understand this is a complicated issue, just expressing my views).--Bbb23 (talk) 18:56, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
    Sandstein has asked for a two-week block. Though I'm neutral on that, if it's a block that also prevents him from succeeding as a candidate, then it's a bigger sanction. EdJohnston (talk) 19:10, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
    Are you neutral on the duration or the block itself?--Bbb23 (talk) 19:34, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
    This has turned into a sort of ethical dilemma. Some admins appear to believe that any consideration of the effect of the block on the election might be considered to be improper. Since I can't say whether I agree with that or not, I won't comment further. EdJohnston (talk) 19:43, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

    Since the voting has now closed in the Arbcom election, I suggest that the admins here can go ahead and close this however they prefer. Due to the passage of time it now seems unlikely that a block would be seen as disqualifying the candidate. Simply being a candidate for office should not be a protection against sanctions. Since Arthur is an admin you'd think he would know the rules about topic bans. EdJohnston (talk) 02:26, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

    The issue now is whether there is a consensus for a block. Two of us, Sandstein and I, favor a block. Just so it's clear, the two-week block suggested by Sandstein is fine with me (I might have been amenable to a shorter block had Arthur returned after his one short statement to address some of the stated concerns). No one has opposed a block. I don't see Gatoclass or EdJohnston expressly opposing or supporting a block.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:18, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

    Actually that's not really the issue, as AE actions don't require consensus. It's just that I haven't had the time for the AE block paperwork yet, but anyone is free to go ahead if they do have the time.  Sandstein  23:47, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
    I'd support a block also. Whichever admin closes this will hopefully summarize the grounds for the block. EdJohnston (talk) 02:17, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
    I would not support a block. The apology is enough for the edits of December 5-6, and I think a simple warning about disengaging from the topic area fully would suffice to take care of the violation in the December 1 post. NW (Talk) 02:46, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

    Taking NuclearWarfare's comment into consideration, I'm closing this request with a one-week block. Because Arthur Rubin's statement does not address the attempted proxy editing of December 1, I believe that a block rather than a warning is required in order to effectively deter Arthur Rubin from future noncompliance of that kind. Furthermore, the enforcement provision does not mention warnings, but allows blocks up to a month for first infractions. I understand this to mean that the Committee considers a mere warning to be insufficient by way of an enforcement action.  Sandstein  13:11, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

    Barleybannocks

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Barleybannocks

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 21:54, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Barleybannocks (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Pseudoscience#Pseudoscience_2
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 00:26, 15 December 2013 "I am opposing your statement of generally considered pseudoscience because it is based on a minority of sources which say pseudoscience, and ignores the majority of sources which say science" - denial of Rupert Sheldrake's works as being generally considered pseudoscience.
    2. D06:29, 16 December 2013 The user was questioned about whether or not they were really positing that Sheldrakes works were not generally considered pseudoscience, and reminded that AE applied]
    3. 12:18, 16 December 2013 "It's not my position, it's what the sources say."
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Warned on 00:49, 18 November 2013 by Bbb23 (talk · contribs)
    2. D06:29, 16 December 2013 The user was questioned about whether or not they were really positing that Sheldrakes works were not generally considered pseudoscience, and reminded that AE applied]
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The article Rupert Sheldrake (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) has come under attack by a number of SPA and pseudoscience pushing accounts after Sheldrake recently made public comments about the article no longer presenting his ideas in the unquestioned fashion that he preferred. One of those SPAs is Barleybannocks. The user's refusal to come to terms with the fact that Sheldrake's work is widely considered pseudoscience (see ) appears to be at the basis of their WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT editing on the talk page which makes it impossible to make any progress on the article and helps create Walls of Text that drive other more moderate editors away. Request that the user be banned from editing any pseudoscience articles or topics, broadly construed. (although the ban may only be needed for Rupert Sheldrake broadly construed as they are an SPA who have not touched any other articles.) -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 21:54, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

    Per iantresman, all the others that hold that Sheldrake's work is not generally considered pseudoscience should also be banned from the article. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 02:01, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Barleybannocks

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Barleybannocks

    Statement by (username)

    I agree with TheRedPenOfDoom (talk · contribs). We have been extremely patient with this SPA, who continues to insist on some kind of exception from the WP:REDFLAG issues with this article that result in WP:FRINGE according to any WP:COMMONSENSE approach. Every flaming discussion meanwhile descends into a discussion in which Barleybannocks (talk · contribs) repeatedly raises the same old tired long-refuted criticisms, e.g. he makes a claim that "morphic resonance" is scientifically supported. He is asked to provide citations to peer reviewed journals. He can't. He is told that without these citations there is no scientific support for Sheldrake. In another thread, he makes a claim that "morphic resonance" is scientifically supported. There are a group of consensus builders on this article, which I believe include Vzaak (talk · contribs), Jzg (talk · contribs), TheRedPenOfDoom (talk · contribs), Roxy the dog (talk · contribs), QTxVi4bEMRbrNqOorWBV (talk · contribs) and Bobrayner (talk · contribs). Barleybannocks (talk · contribs) is out of this group. Barney the barney barney (talk) 22:20, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

    Statement by iantresman

    Barleybannocks does not disagree with Arb/PS and has stated many times, that he accepts that some scientists consider Sheldrake's work to be pseudoscience, and is happy to describe it as such. He (and other editors) merely disagrees with how to quantify it. TRPoD and other editors are confusing disagreement with dissent.

    Barleybannocks is not alone in his position, and there are several other editors who support the same view. But most editors have stopped discussing the article because of the difficulty in making progress, AE threats (see also "Persistent Bullying of Rupert Sheldrake Editors", and offensive editing behavior

    I should mention that I have not edited the article for nearly 2 years, and of the edits I made before then, I haved include a quote consistent with Arb/PS (that Maddox considered Shelrake's work to be pseudoscience), and all my edits are still in the article (ie. I have a 100% editing record). I also feel I have also been intimidated by other editors including adminstrators that I robustly rebutted despite there being not one diff in support of the allegation. --Iantresman (talk) 01:55, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

    Result concerning Barleybannocks

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