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Metal Unassessed

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General

Can somebody include something about the torture device? -- Zoe

Is the torture device also with dual caps? Small distinction, I know, with only two words in the title, but.... --KQ

Good point.  :-) -- Zoe

I would be interested in seeing an article on the torture device, though. --KQ

Plus the rack, and other torture devices.  :-) -- Zoe, being sadistic tonight.

Let's start an inquisition. I have some unfounded accusations lying around.  :-) --KQ

I can have a stab at it over the weekend. This article btw belongs under Iron Maiden (band). I will move it there at the same time as I work on the real Iron Maiden. user:sjc

I just changed the bit that said 'iron maiden never partied hard' because this is clearly wrong - just watch the 'early days DVD.' They weren't insane partiers like some of the hair metal bands but they partied nevetheless. Adrian Smith was hungover as hell whilst recording his powerslave solo.

This bears an uncanny resemblance to parts of

• http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/singerUnid/1783C233EE3D0E84482568D10021A869
• http://www.centrohd.com/biogra/i1/iron_maiden_formed_in_london.htm
• http://www.geocities.com/Baja/9064/ironhist.html

(all of which are effectively the same text as each other) --rbrwr

The article has evolved so much now, I think it's no longer an issue --PopUpPirate 00:59, Mar 10, 2005 (UTC)

I can't believe that Bruce Dickinson doesn't get a mention - although, I couldn't write anything apart from him being a pilot nowadays. Kabads

I took the privilege to add the birth dates for the remainder of the group's members, and I would also like to point out that a few of the members (Nicko and Dave) originally have other names (respectively Michael Henry McBrain and David Michael Murray). I think we should add that info somehow, but keep pointing to their - eh - "artistic" names (ie. the ones they use most often these days).Toreau 22:46, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Added their real names now. How about we gather the data about the current lineup in a bulleted list? It's quite messy as it is right now. Toreau 00:44, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Go for it - for things like that you don't need to worry about asking first. All the old versions are stored in the page history, so you can easily change it back if something goes wrong. Angela

I added a few extra previous members along with the dates they were in the band, I think it is a complete list, the various 'family tree's' I've seen over the years are a bit confusing. But I hoping this list is farily complete/correct. Kurek

The German wiki has quite a bit more info on the band's history but my German is very weak so I really can't take a shot at translation. Any takers? RedWolf 16:33, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)

I could give it a try. My english isn't perfect, so I could make a mistake or two though. :) --Conti|✉ 16:49, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)

Shouldn't each year point to the year in music rather than just the year considering Iron Maiden's about music? :) I didn't want to make such a major edit to the Iron Maiden article before receiving feedback here. Check out the Bruce Dickinson page and you'll see that dates link to "in music" rather than just the year. For example, 2004 vs. 2004, the first 2004 being "2004 in music" and the second just pointing to 2004. Yes, I have way too much time on my hands. :) --Demonslave 10:59, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)

Noticed a contradiction here, regarding who was the most punk sounding vocalist :

Original singer Paul Day was much punkier than the man who replaced him, the outlandish Dennis Wilcock, a huge KISS fan that used fire, makeup, and fake blood onstage. By 1978, Harris and Murray had estabilised the Iron Maiden line-up with the addition of drummer Doug Sampson and vocalist Paul Di'Anno.

If the band had sounded punk before, they did even more so with the arrival of the short-haired, fiery Di'Anno.

Who sounded most Punk? --PopUpPirate 00:59, Mar 10, 2005 (UTC)

I would like to suggest rewording the first line. To "Iron Maiden is a British Heavy Metal band from East London". By all means refer to them being a major player in the scene that was termed New Wave of British Heavy Metal. But as Iron Maiden are still current today the term NWOBHM is outdated, not relevant to them today and is a regarded by many observers as a bit of a joke term. NWOBHM is not a genra of music it is simply a media sound bite coined to describe emerging British Heavy Rock bands in the late 70's early eighties. The first line also does not scan well.

History

I added the history of the band. It was compeltly written by myself, so it is not copied from any site. Feel free to edit or add anything else that it's missing User: Coburnpharr04

Could this ever be a featured article? --PopUpPirate 12:11, Feb 6, 2005 (UTC)

I reckon the prose needs a good pounding for grammar and variety first, at least. I'll try to do that when I get a chance (assuming no-one beats me to it) Blufive 15:53, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I'd love to see it as a featured article. --Demonslave 13:50, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)

Hopefully we can get there eventually! Have added some images today, perhaps contentiously I have changed the intro from "Iron Maiden is" to "Iron Maiden are", pedantic I know, and either could be right, I think it reads better now though and follows band naming convention a bit better? --PopUpPirate 23:47, Mar 3, 2005 (UTC)

Keep up the good work. --Demonslave 10:44, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)

Likewise :D Think we need an additional section as well as the main history section, it doesn't tell of any wild on the road antics, like Bruce and Ozzy wanting to steal a taxi, or the Martin Birch $666 crash repair, or the mockery Maiden made when they were asked to mime Wasted Years. Perhaps "Reputation" would be a good title? And also an "Imagery" section which could mention Eddie and the associated merchandise, like the cut-to-shape picture discs, Eddies Head box set, Eddies Archive box set, etc etc etc! Just a thought, but there's so much more could go in. Also, to ever get Featured Article, we'd need to cite sources. --PopUpPirate 23:21, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)

"Iron Maiden never sang about drugs, sex, Jack Daniel's, or women." Really? What about the song "Women In Uniform" and less so "22 Acacia Ave."? --Demonslave 13:50, Feb 12, 2005 (UTC)

Indeed, not to mention the subtly-titled "Charlotte the harlot". "Hooks in You" is downright kinky, if you listen closely to the lyrics. Anyhow, I've tweaked the wording a bit to reflect this. Blufive 11:12, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the edit regarding this to clear it up. :) To further comment, on Iron Maiden's Early Days DVD#1 there's an old show where they had some woman on stage, wearing what appears to be very little, for the song 22 Acacia Ave. --Demonslave 10:44, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)

Not entirely comfortable with the first two paragraphs of History, think they need an overhaul, doesn't seem encylopedic and the use of the word punk / punkish is clumsy imo.... not sure how to fix tho. --PopUpPirate 23:13, Apr 13, 2005 (UTC)

Members

An anonymous editor added a Dave Mac as a guitarist in 1977. I'm sat here looking at Pete Frame's 1996 Rock Family Tree for Maiden, and I don't see any mention of him. Can anyone back up the anonymous editor, or should I just delete it? Blufive 10:33, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

No such thing. There has never been a Dave Mac in Iron Maiden. I just re-checked all the info with the official FAQ (which I'm the maintainer of). --Toreau 16:19, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)

Guitar Solos

Have Iron Maiden done any songs, exclusing covers, which do not include a guitar solo?

• Genghis Khan, off Killers, doesn't, which is odd seeing as it hasn't got any vocals either! --PopUpPirate 21:25, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
• Flash Of The Blade (Powerslave) is the same really in it's more of a rhythm section / dual harmony bit, not really a solo as such. Deja Vu (S/I/T) doesn't. And Journeyman (DOD) doesn't. Four, not counting singles and B-sides! --PopUpPirate 21:36, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually Deja Vu does have a solo in the intro. 68.45.21.165 05:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

You're right! Wasn't bad off the top of me head tho :D --PopUpPirate 23:03, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Bruce's photo

It's a great photo but could it be placed somewhere other than right next to "The Decline" it doesn't seem right to have his picture near such words, despite the content. It would be better placed next to "The Golden Years". --Demonslave 11:36, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)

Uploaded image below to use in its place, but I like the rewording that someone did today! --PopUpPirate 23:09, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC) File:Band1.JPG

Bias

Not to knock Iron Maiden or anything, as they are the best band in the history of the universe and all (\m/), but is "The band's music was often referred to as "intelligent metal," and is often considered to be on an entirely different intellectual plane than most other metal acts of the 1980s" a bit biased?

Personally, while I love Fear of the Dark and all, I wouldn't consider Iron Maiden intellectual giants, and I'm not sure many other people do as well (especially when compared to other bands like Faith no More and Tool.) Could this at least by given a reference? Where is the music referred to as intelligent metal? Within which publications? Often considered? By who exactly?

What is intelligent metal actually? Is it considered a genre? TearAwayTheFunerealDress 15:05, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

A lot of the current detail is rather gushing, and need some general prose tidyup, too. As for the "intelligent" stuff - well, compared to Motley Crue, for instance? :-D Blufive 17:33, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Faith No More and Tool, the two bands that were mentioned, in this Bias topic, are interesting examples. Faith No More, IMO, wasn't really intelligent metal, and Tool formed in the 90's and wasn't around that I know of in the 1980s. Use the "intelligent metal" term to compare Iron Maiden to other heavy metal bands in the 1980s and examine the lyrics of others as to better gain a perspective on what "intelligent metal" could mean. How many other bands at the time were writing about historical events , spirituality (beyond mentioning Satan and demons), and other such things? Most of the others were either ranting about chicks, booze, good times, and money. To add to this: Do you understand all the lyrics behind every Iron Maiden album. Look at 7th Son of a 7th Son for example. Do you know what the title song is all about? Have you ever heard of Aleister Crowley? IMO in quite a few Iron Maiden songs they deal head on with a number of historical/intelligent as well as obscure topics whereas other bands would mention the name of an event or person and leave it at that, IMO. --[[User:Demon

slave|Demonslave]] 18:55, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I agree with Demonslave. While Maiden's lyrics may not be as intelligent as lyrics of bands like Tool, for example, they do have some very intelligent lyrics. Let's take Revelations, written by Bruce Dickinson. The lyrics are mindblowingly intelligent. This is part of an interview I found on maidenfans.com

Oh yes, absolutely. So the song is in three parts. The first one is made of the first verses from this hymn, and I chose it because there is something visionary in these verses. They were written about a century ago (Note: see text on the cover sleeve of Piece of Mind), and they describe exactly what's happening nowadays. A lot of money goes around in our society, and the more money you have, the more miserable you are, in fact. The last verse, "Take away our pride", is the centre of the whole mystical universe. The main obstacle to communication and fulfilment is selfishness and a misplaced self-esteem, and these things divide the men. The next two verses are a reference to hindu philosophy. "Just a babe in a black abyss" is an allusion to Aleister Crowley, the word "babe" refers to the human being, and "black abyss" refers to a desperate world. "No raison for a place like this" shows the nonsense of man's existence on earth if hope is no more. The second sentence in the second verse mentions the "secret of the hanged man". In popular hindu imagery, the hanged man signifies to "good luck". This is why the hanged man has a "smile on his lips", and this is basically the secret of the hanged man. Then, we get to the third verse. The most important sentence is"The venom that tears my spine". Have you ever heard of the significance of the Hindu snake called "Kundalini" in the Yogi mythology?

No.

In Yoga, there's a snake called Kundalini who is supposed to live at the bottom of the spine of each individual. During orgasm or an intense meditation, a spiritual entity called "Samadhi" is created, symbolising the transcendental union with God. Then the Kundalini is freed and goes up the spine all the way to the brain, where it releases its venom. The mixing of the venom with the brain substance create a union with God. Next verse, "The eyes of the Nile are opening", imply that a whole universe of possibilities is opening as soon as the venom is released inside of you.

So the snake has a constructive value.

Yes, absolutely. In the Bible, it's a representation of evil, whereas in Hindu philosophy, it's the symbol of creation and ecstasy. In the next verse, there's the expression "Serpent' Kiss", something Crowley discussed in length. Then, there's "The Eye of the Sun". The Sun is the symbol of the creator; it represents the male side of life. A bit further, there's the female side appearing in the term "Moonlight", where the Moon represents the woman. The verse goes, "Moonlight catches silver tears I cry"; and everything's revealed, because silver is the colour of the Sun. So, you find here the universe, with the male entity and the female entity, both being inseparable. In fact, the universe, as seen in this philosophy, is dual, binary, and any notion only exists through its opposite. In other words, there isn't any manichean separation like in the Christian way of thinking, where good and evil are dissociated while trying to eliminate evil, only the Christian system of values is monolithic. All the other great philosophies encompass this duality of notions, like the Ying and the Yang in China, or the Jewish Caballah. Well, you know, you have to be careful with all these notions because it's all very complicated.

I suppose that you gather many documents long before you start writing lyrics like 'Revelations'?

Oh, yes. I have a large library with all the main works concerning human mystic.

Don't you think that it's somehow a shame that the audience doesn't always understand what you're singing about, as the meaning is apparently only understood by very few?

No, I think that as long as there is some mental energy coming out, there's nothing to regret. Here, I'm explaining everything in detail, but if only a fraction of the lyrics stands out and touch some people, then I think I won't have wasted my time. You can't convince everyone because many notions that are not used are in fact unknown by the majority of people. What's interesting with this song is that you can take only one verse and you can reconstruct a whole new text, make a brand-new song.

And he only discussed part of the song. User:Malmsteen Maiden

External Links Funny Business

Whoever is adding the multiple links to maidenfans dot com, please stop. One link to the site is good enough. I'm sick of editing duplicate entries out every day now only to see them return. It's worse on the Bruce Dickinson page (which I explained in the talk section) (where I had to do the same thing remove duplicate links) where a user(s) were adding duplicate links to maidenfans dot com after I'd remove them over and over and now some user has been clearing the entire External Links section on the Bruce Dickinson page, which is very childish. If the vandalism continues on the Bruce page, and if the constant edits to include the duplicate links continue here on the Iron Maiden band page I will consult an admin to ban these offending IP addresses. The abuse will stop now. --Demonslave 18:37, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)

Discography

The previously Featured Article for the Beatles has a separate page for the discography, I personally prefer this way of doing things, it'll clean up the main article, and on the discography page, singles etc could be included. Agree / disagree? --PopUpPirate 21:03, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I'm also planning on doing this on the Megadeth page, and splitting the "Band who have covered..." section off from here. IainP (talk) 22:13, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

There was already a discography page, so I've merged the information (think there were one or to items not on each page) and reorganised it slightly. Removed the details from this main page and added a link to "See Also" IainP (talk) 14:07, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Major errors?

As I was working with the Norwegian version of the article (mostly a translation, really), I think I discovered a few, potentially major, errors. According to the Iron Maiden FAQ (which I sort of maintains, but haven't updated in years), there are some issues which we must resolve;

Soundhouse Tapes

Soundhouse Tapes wasn't recorded on New Year's Eve 1978, but the day before, ie. December 30th. According to the FAQ:

"The first 4 songs EP was recorded at Spacewood Studios in Cambridge, England. The songs were: Prowler, Invasion, Iron Maiden and Strange World. Once the band returned with more money to remix, etc., the studio had wiped the master clean, so the demo tape (which eventually became the Soundhouse Tapes) was put onto vinyl exactly as it was recorded that night. It cost them about $400 or so. They didn't even have a place to stay, and actually had to stay in the back of their van!"

This I believe to be true - the above quotation is from the 12 Wasted Years vid --PopUpPirate 00:07, Mar 16, 2005 (UTC)

Paul Di'Annos debut with Iron Maiden (on stage, presumably) was on New Year's Eve, however;

"Paul Di'Anno's debut with Iron Maiden, at the Ruskin Arms, High Street North, Manor Park, East London, England."

In addition, Soundhouse Tapes was released on November 9th 1979, and in 5,000 copies, not 500 as stated in the Iron Maiden article.

"The Soundhouse Tapes EP was officially released (unmixed) on Rock Hard Records (Iron Maiden's own label). Only 5,000 copies were ever made."

According to the Best of the Beast sleeve, it was released November 10th 1979. Hmm. I guess the FAQ is wrong about that one, then...? --Toreau 00:27, Mar 16, 2005 (UTC)

EMI

The band signed with EMI on October 24th 1979, although the deal wasn't official until December 15th the same year;

"Iron Maiden first signs with EMI records. Paul Di'Anno of Chingford (London), David Michael Murray of Clapton (London), Steve Harris of Leytonstone (London), Doug Sampson of Walthamstow (London) and Tony Parsons of Hertfordshire. The official announcement was made in December the same year."

"Official announcement of Iron Maiden signing with EMI (in the trade bible Music Week). The actual signing was done back in October, though."

Band members, and when they were members

I need to take a better look at this one and get back to you, but I'm not quite sure if the years are quite correct for all of them. No wonder, though, as the article surely states "a ridiculous number of band members throughout the 1970s". :)

--Toreau 23:44, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)

Dammit, they released a full family tree with a release, wonder if I've still got it? Can't remember what it came with! --PopUpPirate 00:08, Mar 16, 2005 (UTC)

You're right. Sadly, I can't remember it either. Could it be in the double-CD version of Best of the Beast? I have only the single-CD at hand right now. --Toreau 00:27, Mar 16, 2005 (UTC)

No need to remember; Google comes to the rescue! :) --Toreau 00:31, Mar 16, 2005 (UTC)

Damn! It still says that Soundhouse Tapes was recorded on New Year's Eve. I'm almost 100 % certain that it wasn't! --Toreau 00:34, Mar 16, 2005 (UTC)

Tales Of The Beast

Hope you like it, needs work, please be bold and edit it with force! --PopUpPirate 21:50, Mar 25, 2005 (UTC)

I'd like to edit/remove several of these sections particularly "In Trouble..." and "Somewhere On Tour." They just don't sound very encyclopedic to me. -- MordredKLB 01:35, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

Go for it! If editable, even better! --PopUpPirate 20:04, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

Bibliography

I removed the redudant references in the bibliography seeing as how they were 2nd and 3rd editions and two of them didn't have dates. If you think the most recent additions should be listed instead, feel free to go ahead and add those in. Just seemed silly to have 9 listed, but only 3 different books. - MordredKLB 20:56, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

I'm a long time Iron Maiden fan from Norway, and I've also maintained their FAQ. I'm impressed by the work done with this article. I've seen it grown over time, and it's worthy a place on the Misplaced Pages front page anytime soon. Keep up the good work everyone, and up the irons! --Toreau 00:41, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)

Seconded! Think we just need references now.

Nicely done! This looks great. I use "Wrathchild" as my handle for video games and this article has made me want to go out a buy a couple more of their albums. Al 02:21, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

Peer Review / FA

The POV issues raised at Peer Review have now been heavily edited, references have been added, images are fine, ready for FA application methinks! --PopUpPirate 23:21, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)

Several points...

Under "The Experimentation" it mentions the band using "keyboards" for a second time. SIT's sound is mostly derived from guitar synths - NOT keyboard synths. 7th Son, however, does have a greater use of keyboards. I didn't change the wording of this paragraph yet, but if there's no objections, I recommend we try to re-work that a bit.

"The Decline" - this section mentions the "major loss of guitarist/vocalist Adrian Smith" - Adrian was not really much of a vocalist. He did lead once, on a non-album track. I recommend we consider listing him as a back-up vocalist, or removing the vocalist wording all together. It's sort of unclear in its current state.

"The Rejuvenation" - I think the heading contradicts the text. A rejuvenation that not only met with mixed results, but had the lowest ever selling points and chart positions? What kind of rejuvenation is that? I also see that these headings come from the Iron Maiden Commentary, so perhaps we should re-think some of them to better fit the content that is at Misplaced Pages. EvilCheeseWedge 18:15, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Totally agree with all the above --PopUpPirate 18:43, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

I agree with your notes on Decline and Rejuvenation, but I don't know enough to comment on the keyboards. -- MordredKLB 18:44, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I'll try to get some stuff in here later today. I also have to re-do some of my edits and additions that were lost because of the vandalism yesterday. EvilCheeseWedge 13:25, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Also, the article makes it looks like "The Experimentation" started with Seventh Son, when it really started with Somewhere in Time. The article talks about Piece of Mind, but doesn't say anything about Powerslave and Somewhere in Time, their two biggest albums at the height of their popularity. For Powerslave, it should say how it is Maiden's most ambitious and perhaps second greatest album, second to only The Number of the Beast. Each member was in top form and the high level of musicianship of this album was undeniable. Many fans to this day consider it to be Maiden's best album ever, containing some of the best material they've ever written, especially the songs most consider to be the stand outs of the album, Aces High, 2 Minutes to Midnight, Powerslave, and Rime of the Ancient Mariner. It should include how Maiden embarked on one of the longest tours in world history, the legendary World Slavery tour, in promotion of the release of Powerslave. Bruce Dickinson's voice was burnt out at the end of the 11.5 month tour, and it is evident on Live After Death, recorded in Long Beach at the end of the World Slavery tour, which is still one of the greatest live metal albums of all time. For Somewhere in Time, it should say how Maiden made a risky move by introduce synths to their sound, which was an idea from guitarist/back up vocalist, Adrian Smith. The synths added texture to their sound, and gave the album a futuristic vibe, which fitted the theme of time. They recieved criticism for adding synths to their sound, after Bruce previously said Maiden would never use synths, and some people accused the album of sounding too poppish because of the synths. But the album was still very successful and went on to become Maiden's highest selling album of the 80s, going double platinum in the United States. It was yet another classic Maiden album, containing classic material, much of which was contributed by Adrian Smith.

This is very relevant information to know about Maiden in the 80s and I feel it must be included in the article. User:Malmsteen Maiden

I agree with pretty much all MM has to say, though if we're adding more to the article we need to be careful of a couple of things.

Point one - the article's getting rather long and may need to be split (perhaps take the discography and "bands who's covered Iron Maiden" into separate articles?). Point two - substantiating statements. While I do agree that Powerslave is one of their best albums, I tend to rank it alongside PoM as the two came out so close together. NotB is superb, but vastly different so I like it as much but on different merits. Dance of Death is also up there with them. As is 7th Son. But those are my opinions.

The point I'm trying to make is that you can't say that "most fans think xxxx" or "one of the greatest albums" etc., as these are opinions and not fact. The article has to be objective and unbiased. Certainly, if a source can be cited (say a recent poll or chart) then yes, definitely go ahead and say these things. Otherwise we run into the danger of the article turning too "fanish" and fawning. Arguments can and will erupt, people will change things because they disagree with statements made and so forth.

Oh, MM - I've added a little link to you below what you've said. Have to say your input is very welcome, so please sign it so we know who it's from :) If you click the little signature icon above the edit window, or enter 3 or 4 tildes, the system will but a sig in for you.

IainP (talk) 09:45, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

IainP: You made some good points there. This has to stay objective. One source that could be used is digitaldreamdoor's greatest metal albums list, which I happen to be the editor of. Ok, so the criteria may be a bit subjective, but still... ;)

Thanks for the help =) Malmsteen Maiden 18:59, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Vote

Please see Talk:Iron Maiden#Vote and vote there. Thanks, Redwolf24 8 July 2005 04:35 (UTC)

Well done everyone!

Featured Article.... nice work peeps! --PopUpPirate 19:27, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Congrats and thanks for all your hardwork PopUp. Excellent job getting this one featured. -- MordredKLB 22:46, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

On the front page on 31st August --PopUpPirate 18:55, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Recent News

Apparently the band got SERIOUS jip on the last date of the Ozzfest tour - the sound was turned off several times, they were pelted with eggs, Sharon Osbourne called Bruce a prick (check Google News).

Also on a better note, the band are on the Hall Of Fame, in America, where they have left their handprints in the pavements.

Prob worth adding to the article somehow? --PopUpPirate 23:19, August 21, 2005 (UTC)

Why was the rest of my text about Ozzfest removed to focus on Iron Maiden's last performance at Ozzfest? Couldn't it have just been added? --EvilCheeseWedge 19:07, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry - just trying to keep it of similar length to what it was before, by all means add it back --PopUpPirate 21:23, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

No problem, I was just wondering why. I have added most of the information back. Currently, there are two paragraphs about Ozzfest. Feel free to change that, I thought it just made things a little clearer, but do what you will. Also, should we link to the official statements from Iron Maiden and Sharon Osbourne in regards to "the incident"? --EvilCheeseWedge 22:09, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

A short sentence would be fine, so as not to dwell on current events too much - I had a go at adding them but the links seem to be live, ie, they will point to something else in a few days time? Currently thinking of what to have on my Reading T-shirt, it was going to be "Scream For Me Reading" but after the events of the past couple of days I'm taking inspiration from the IMBB! --PopUpPirate 22:36, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

Hall of Fame

I vaguely remember hearing something about them getting added to some hall of fame. Anyone know about this? - Ta bu shi da yu 08:10, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Added a bit, plus link. --PopUpPirate 10:30, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

Grammar Note

• Be sure to refer to the band itself in the singular, e.g. "Iron Maiden has…" and not "Iron Maiden have…" (If one were to say, "The members of Iron Maiden have," it would be correct, but a band itself is technically a single thing.)

The "Iron maiden are a band from London" looks wrong to me too, but reading Raul's revert comment "this article consistently refers to them in the british style plural; while it grates on my ears, at least it's consistent", I believe we should stick to the plural form. But I'm sure there'll be many well-meaning people going to change this while it's featured on the main-page. Shanes 01:35, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

There go the English, screwing up the language again. Sorry, I didn't see any "revert comment;" I'm not really versed in the whole Misplaced Pages thing.

It finally got to me, so I made the switch. I think I got everything. →Raul654 01:54, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

Tsk! I am so going to change this back to the plural, but don't worry, I'll wait until it's off the main page. British heavy metal band = British grammar in international encyclopedia. sjorford (?!) 18:57, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

• Titles of longer works, such as articles, short stories, or in this case songs are meant to be surrounded by quotation marks, not italicized. On the other hand, titles of longer works, such as magazines, anthologies, or in this case albums are meant to be italicized and not surrounded by quotation marks.

Do these lines belong in this article?

From "The Next Level" section: A group of Christian activists decided that the band's records (along with those of Ozzy Osbourne) should be destroyed - resulting in a mountain of vinyl records being burnt in a large fire. Pandemonium ensued when the activists were forced to flee the resultant fumes. It was then decided that smashing the records with hammers would be a better way to dispose of them. --Ccoll 03:34, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism

FFS, do these people have nothing better to do..... very tiresome! --PopUpPirate 23:35, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

No. Obviously they don't. Tossers. IainP (talk) 12:27, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Former Members

Please see my comments on Iron Maiden band members page. Seems unnecessary to me to duplicate this info and also to have seperate wiki pages (in most cases just links) for the non-notable early members. Perhaps the detailed history should be cut down from this page, or the other page deleted? Could argue the same for the discography, but I won't :) --kingboyk 21:01, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Lucozade Advert

The article states that Linford Christie was featured in the Lucozade ad which used Phantom of the Opera. I definitely remember the advert featuring this track as being with Daley Thompson - but have a vague feeling that the Linford Christie version could have been a follow-up - so don't want to edit him out. Can anyone verify?

I swear when I read the article a while ago it said Daley Thompson, which I definitely remember. I certainly have no recollection whatsoever of Linford Christie in any Lucozade advert, let alone one featuring Maiden IainP (talk) 12:26, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

The piece on the Lucozade advert was put in by myself. I said it was Linford Christie as I certainly remember him doing this advert. I was going to edit it back but saw your explanation. If it can be verified that LC also did the ad, then we should put both names in!

Eddie on all sleeves?

Someone recently changed the fact that Eddie was on "most" album/single sleeves to "all" (sorry, forgotten who). Is this accurate? While I'm not banging my head off a wall trying to recall which they could be, I'm sure I've seen (very very rare) covers without him in some form or other. I'm prepared to accept the thing on the front of Fear Of The Dark as Eddie! However... Virtual XI (which I thought I had, but can't find - no great loss)? I cant picture the cover at all. I'm at work at the moment so I can't look! IainP (talk) 12:32, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it's Eddie on the cover of VXI. The only covers I can recall that don't have Eddie are the Running Free single (from Live After Death), Wasting Love single, From Here to Eternity single, and The Essential Iron Maiden. Malmsteen Maiden 19:33, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Um - Running free does have Eddie - he is the shadow on the wall - the figure is running away from him presumebly. picky ;-)

A-ha. So it's not "all" then? I'll change it back. Thanks for that. IainP (talk) 22:44, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Found another one - the Wicker Man single, which is the image actually used at the top of the article! IainP (talk) 16:26, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Yes last time I checked, Eddie was on "most" of the sleeves, not all though. So no, I don't belive it is "on all sleeves" as the misinformed user put. TearAwayTheFunerealDress 15:31, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Eddie is also absent from the Wildest Dreams DVD single cover & the original Live at Donington 1992.

Umphrey's McGee

This is a very popular heavy jam band from the United States that is hugely into Iron Maiden, and they deserve to be mentioned in the introduction to show how far-reaching Iron Maiden's influence is.

Why don't we just list all bands that IM have influenced? All 300,000 of them :p Grymsqueaker

Bands influenced by Maiden

Does anyone else think this list (paragraph three of the main article) is just getting a bit unwieldy? I'm all for trimming it right down, or reducing it to "Maiden have influenced many bands in many rock and metal genres" and dropping the examples. Thoughts? IainP (talk) 08:48, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, nobody said "no", so I pared it off. The list just seemed like an invitation for someone else to come along and say "oh, they've not mentioned Xxxx Xxxxx who play Zzzzz Zzzzz Metal" and then add yet another one. If we really must have a list of bands who've cited Maiden as an influence, then I think it makes more sense to have it as a separate paragraph. However, as there are so damn many of them, I really doubt the use of it at all. IainP (talk) 12:58, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Bands who have covered Iron Maiden songs

Another suggestion. The page length is getting excessing (check the warning when you edit the main page). Would it make sense to consider splitting this ever-growing list off onto a page of its own and adding an "also see" link? IainP (talk) 12:58, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me Spearhead 13:33, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

If there are no arguments, I'll give it till Jan 1st and split into two articles then. That seems a fair length of time for objections. Similarly, it may be an idea to move the Discography off as well, again for size reasons. It's large enough to carry itself as a separate article, too. IainP (talk) 15:37, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Also add:

• Halford - Strange World (live)
• Kamelot - Flight of Icarus

I wish I still had the MP3 of Halford doing Strange World ='( Malmsteen Maiden 06:23, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

I've added these to the Bands that have covered Iron Maiden page IainP (talk) 10:21, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

New Cover Artists/Songs found:

• Eternal Tears Of Sorrow - Flight Of Icarus
• Cradle Of Filth - The Trooper, Funeral In Carpathia ("Be Quick Or Be Dead" version), Fear Of The Dark
• Coheed & Cambria - The Trooper
• Children Of Bodom - Fear Of The Dark
• Helloween - Wasted Years
• Pantera - Killers
• Iced Earth - The Trooper (live)
• Metallica - Remember Tomorrow
• Angra - Wasted Years (unplugged)
• Dream Theater - The Trooper (live)
• Blind Guardian - Fear Of The Dark

• delete the songs in this list after verification!*
• Add any new ones you find here for verification by others!
• updated Jan 1 2006

This section has now been moved to a page of its own (Bands that have covered Iron Maiden) and I've also moved some of the above discussion to it

The Clansman

Was linked to a piece of literature about the KKK, so I unlinked it. I don't know if linking it to the Braveheart movie, or William Wallace, is a good idea, as the lyrics aren't very specific to history at all (You could interpret it as a rival Scottish clan attacking the singer's clan if you want, or a Viking invasion). Maybe another example song of their lyrical topics should be used instead.--86.130.153.125 22:32, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

iPod evidence

Can anyone show me evidence for this, and perhaps add a link to a website to the article?

I have had a quick google, and have found no evidence whatsoever of this - it seems like a very unlikely combination as Iron Maiden aren't generally the type of band apple generally approach 83.217.190.71 12:11, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I've had a quick look myself, and found the following story. Not directly related, but the name of the shop owner's a bit of a coincidence! www.engadget.com IainP (talk) 12:56, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Out Of The Silent Planet

Where the article names songs about England's Folklore, shoundn't Out Of The Silent Planet be mentioned? It's based on C.S. Lewis' book, Bruce Dickinson said so himself on an interview (I can't find any official info to prove this right now)

Also, the article mentions a DVD, Death on the Road, to be released before the end of 2005. I think it should be edited for something like "was announced to be released by the end of 2005" or something

PS: sorry if there are any mistakes but this is my first page editing :$

Tharos 23:40, 08 January 2006 (UTC)

Your editing's fine, and discussion is always a good place to start before altering a page :) I've updated both (and mentioned "To Tame A Land"). As an aside, would it make sense to maybe have a separate paragraph detailing the influences on Maiden lyrics? There are quite a few (historical events, culture, books, films) and only a couple are dealt with in depth within the article. IainP (talk) 08:39, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

bruce dickenson

its truly amazing how the whole article was writen and then in the discuion section about members to have someone put in nico mc brain and dave murrys real names and leave out bruce dickensons original name yes thats right its not bruce its paul , paul dickenson he uses bruce to make it harder for fans to find his personal details (whoops) but unfortunately he admited this fact in an old isue of kerrang magazine (uk) circa 1990

Link or it's BS. Grymsqueaker 10:40, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

According to the biography, his name is Paul Bruce Dickinson, but he goes by his middle name for no other reason than why anyone else goes by their middle name. It's not designed to through anyone off his scent or anything. -Bauulben 17:46, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Satanism or Anti-christianity in Iron Maiden?

I've been told that Iron Maiden have something related to satanism. Not refered to any of their songs, like Number of the Beast, but that they practise it or that they have sold their souls. Is this true? If it is, is there any proof? Thanks in advance.

I don't have any references to hand, but from bits and bobs of interviews I've read in the past, the band's overall response to questions along those lines is "bullsh*t". "NotB" decries Satanism, "Holy Smoke" doesn't attack religion so much as the idiot televangelists who take advantage of it and so on. IainP (talk) 12:10, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Also, drummer Nicko McBrain is a born-again Christian and the song "Alexander the Great" includes the line (refering to Alexander) "He paved the way for Christianity". So there you have it, various fanatics and their over-the-top theories like "Heavy Metal is satanic"... -Voievod 00:18, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Sharon Osbourne incident

I actually agree with the anonymous user who's axed a lot of the text regarding this incident. Yes, it's notable but it had as much written about it as some of the really major items. I'd recommend if anyone reckons it really is that major an incident to write the entire thing up in full and shove it in a separate article linked from this one. As it stood, it drew attention far more than it really deserved.

IainP (talk) 12:08, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Agreed --PopUpPirate 12:50, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Fear of the Dark used in a movie?

I remember hearing a rumor that Fear of the Dark was used in a Horror flick. I couldn't find much on this anywhere. I think it may have been one in the Nightmare on Elm street series of movies. If evidence can be found for this, it should be added to the Popular culture area.

Reply : Bring Your Daughter To The Slaughter was in Nightmare on Elm Street 5 (apparently). --PopUpPirate 11:41, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Damn, beat me to it. I agree with "apparently" though, as I've seen the film and I don't recall hearing the song in it. Also, I don't think it's on the soundtrack album. It may have been written for the film but not used? IainP (talk) 12:31, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Crap I just relized this, sorry. AidanPryde 17:55, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Maiden tour in Romania ?

I don't remember, but did Iron Maiden ever have a concert in Romania ? I know that they even had one in Iceland during their Death on the Road tour, but I don't think they've ever visited Romania. Does anyone have any info to prove this ? -Voievod 00:28, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Well I looked on maidenfans.com and I didn't see any dates for Romania in the 80s... Malmsteen Maiden 22:31, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

They were in Romania in `95 with Blaze. They opened with something like "Hello Budapest!" and were boo-ed by the entire audience. :) - DarkBard 09:44, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Ouch, that was clumsy ! X-D -Voievod 20:30, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

On a more positive note...

"On a more positive note, actor Patrick McGoohan was very accommodating when" "On a more positive note" is probably not necessary. Seems a bit POVish, and not like an encyclopaedia.

Tenebrae (film)

hi, you might be interested to know that the above article about the early-80s Dario Argento horror film is currently a featured article candidate. as the editors of this article know what it takes to become featured, and argento's relationship with maiden is strong (e.g. Phenomena (film)), it would be interesting to have your opinions. please vote "support" or "object" with your comments at Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Tenebrae (film). thx. Zzzzz 11:45, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

the article is now featured!! thx. Zzzzz 18:43, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Iron Maiden in popular culture

Just comparing with other FA and GA articles. If they include an "in popular culture" section or "trivia" section they are usually located near the end of the article. This one sticks it before the actual music and band personnel??? Any objections to sliding it down between "members" and "bibliography". Just seems to make sense that the musicians list should be a little more important than Bill & Ted saying EXCELLENT when they hear the words, Iron Maiden. Any thoughts? Anger22 00:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

iron maiden artwork

i think that there should be more pictures of the artwork used by iron maiden on the albbum covers etc. it was amazing.

Satanism

main genre heavy metal?? ahahah ridicolous...a band who made 2 nwobhm albums, and less than 10 rock/hard rock... well maybe would be an HEAVY metal band for metal hammer or metal shock...certainly not for who knows WHAT METAL IS (nowadays...like...4/5 men in the world :) However, Iron Maiden were said to be satanists (or simply crowley-affiliates) for the symbols on their albums (egyptians, crowleysts...) or the 666 (like on the 20-years collections) who are well-visibles and very numerous (however, i don't really think they're satanists)... --necronudist 14:03, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

It's already been disscussed :) It's BS. Grymsqueaker 10:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Maiden are as quintessential 'heavy metal' as you can get, what are you on about? The genre of 'heavy metal' is specific, it doesn't relate to all the other genres of metal like thrash or black, which is what I think you're getting mixed up with. -Bauulben 18:06, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Discography section of the article..

Steph11 has now added album pictures and live albums to the discography section of the article. Is this really necessary? I think a list of studio albums is enough, and that the pictures only clutter up the section really badly. What are your thoughts? -Zee 01:13, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree completely on the aesthetics. Inclusion of album covers, not accompanied by critical commentary, also does not qualify as fair use. ×Meegs 02:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Especially with all of the images present on Iron Maiden discography (again, on dubious legal footing) there is no reason to waste space here. ×Meegs 02:26, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Album covers & Timeline

I like being able to see the different album covers on the main page. Many other band entries use this feature and I think it works well, especially with a band like Maiden, whose albums are so highly identified with the artwork.

However, the timeline table, which is great, should NOT contain Smiler and Gypsys Kiss lineups. These were totally different bands and are separate from Iron Maiden, which began in December 1975 with Paul Day, Terry Rance, Dave Sullivan, and Ron Mathhews. - Onlyslighted

Great Article

Not really a discussion, just an exclamation that this article is a credit to all involved. The Eddie page could maybe do with a bit more ie how he is used on stage like the giant eddie at reading and why it is he seems to attack janick so much but not other members, is there anything in that?

A Classic Maiden Photo??

Anyone else think that a Maiden photo circa 1982-88 or some such would be more appropriate? I'm not saying that IM should only be associated with their past glories, but Air-Raid Dickenson with spiked armbands, hair to his waist, bathed in red light, and his foot propped up on a monitor declaiming to an arena full of screaming head bangers is how we all remember him, and the band. It can't be a copyright problem, they released lots of publicity photos and fair-use gives pretty wide leeway when using photos for things like a wiki. Besides, the current photo is a publicity shot. So how about it? Can't we do better?

Sorry... forgot to sign. It's Morgaledth 20:20, 22 May 2006 (UTC). Now, a photo??

Much more appropriate for what? Where will it be used? -Zee 00:33, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

So, why does Iron Maiden keep being removed as a NWoBHM band?

I even followed the edit summaries by the people who did this and I'm still blurred. Why are you removing it? — Zee 01:12, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I have not removed it - but suggested it was from the first line - see my point in general "I would like to suggest rewording the first line. To "Iron Maiden is a British Heavy Metal band from East London........." - so I don't repeate here.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prodigenous Zee (talk • contribs)

Because there is a principal of not listing cross-genre-terms in infoboxes. The only time it should be done if there is a specific part of the Infobox such as 'Other Genres/Scenes'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prodigenous Zee (talk • contribs)

Where can I view this said principal? By the way, please sign your comments. — ''Zee'' 15:27, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

There was a long discussion on the talk page about it and similar changes to how things were done after the Nightwish article went through Featured Article at WP:HMM.

That doesn't answer my question. — ''Zee'' 16:03, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

On the talk page of WP:HMM. Cant answer your question anymore bluntly.

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