Misplaced Pages

Indefinite Block

Block Log

May I ask which email I sent caused you to make my block indefinite and why? I wasn't even in town this weekend.

Also, I don't think "venom" is cause for an indefinite block...unless of course I was making a personal attack (which you should point out and make transparent to the rest of the Admins).

If I don't receive an explanation, I'll have to refer this question to another Admin, because again, I wasn't even in town this weekend to email you. I'm pretty sure it isn't authorized, or ethical, to retroactively add block time for a past offense, so you're going to have to point out exactly what warranted the highly unusual "indefinite block." Haizum 00:38, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

{{unblock}}

I've lowered it to 8 days. Will (_@) T 00:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't matter. You set it to a week after the last email I sent you (the last one you made transparent), then two days later you set it at 8 days. Why was it ever raised to indefinite. Which email caused this. Can you not explain your use of block power? Haizum 00:56, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Please stop reverting (nullify by edit) my {{unblock}} tag, I am seeking a consensus decision. You shouldn't be afraid of that if nothing was done wrong. Haizum 00:56, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Via email (proof will be provided upon reqest): It was the one sent 8pm BST 04/06/06 calling me fascist -Sceptre

My response to this via email: I said the actions that keep me from defending myself publicly are facist. I am entitled to say such a thing. It is not a personal attack. I never said, "you are a facist." You need to make that email public. You can be sure I will once the block lifts...unless you can find more abuse/personal attacks in this email. There aren't any. Haizum 01:16, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Call me an insane-disruptive-troll-vandal, but I think an indefinite block for using a label is a bit of a strech. I must also note that the exact email has not been made public. As far as I recall, I called my entire punishment (and inability to publicly defend myself) fascist, which is my opinion, not a personal attack. Haizum 01:13, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, that's soooo tempting. Derex 23:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Haizium, you need to calm down. The block has been shortened to 8 days. I will not be shortened futher. I have reviewed your unblock request and decided not to unblock you. I have therefore removed your unblock request. Take a break, cool off and comeback next week. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 04:49, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

This is unbelievable!

I can't believe what I'm seeing! Long before I started editing seriously enough to get a username of my own, I had a lot of respect for Misplaced Pages as an organization with a benevolent, fair administration. Now I'm seeing things, like the permanent blockage of User:PennyGWoods for use of the one-word sentence "Die." (which I quoted on my userpage and was admonished for doing so) And now User:Sandover has managed to manipulate the perhaps overtasked admins into quashing Haizum's contributions by painting himself as a pure victim on the report abuse page. For whatever reason - I'd guess it's due to overtasking rather than intentional abuse - all the admins involved don't seem to be taking the time to look at the context of all this. Haizum says someone "fails", clearly a remark that is relevant to this whole blocking issue, and he gets NPA-blocked for it. He calls the admin policies fascist, and the admin assumes Haizum is calling him fascist, rather than the actions being taken here. It's almost as if the admins are just looking for reasons to shut him up so they don't have to deal with him anymore. That's not what blocking is supposed to be about; if you don't have the time to "investigate" or whatever thoroughly, don't go blocking people! And maybe some of you should go and read the Laura Ingraham talk page and see who's really abusing the edit function there.

You might say that this is none of my business, but I'm becoming more and more interested in admin accountability, and I'm seeing more and more that admins seem to be more oriented toward achieving quiet than justice. Haizum, unless you object, I wanna list you as an example of admin abuse on my user page; it probably won't make a difference, but this is the sort of thing I do to vent off feelings of blatant injustice. If you don't want me to, feel free to edit my user page to delete it. Karwynn 20:31, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe people should spend more time editing pages rather than even muttering "fascist", "die", or anything of the like, regardless of what it's directed towards. --kizzle 20:43, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

I would if I wasn't blocked. In fact, I usually try to contribute via discussion on the talk page, and a lot of my frustration came from Sandover ignoring my concerns and jumping straight into edits. Haizum 22:42, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

So basically, you're saying people should just gloss over any possible unfairness, because these Users are "wasting time"? People ought to just edit quietly and fall in line, not questioning the edits of others or admin decisions? Besides, there's more than "fascist" and "die" to these blocks; just read the block logs and tlak pages. Are you also too busy to look at the full context? I suppose it's much easier to just address a random part of what's going on. This is exactly what I'm talking about. How convenient that another minor example has cropped in the very section I created... Karwynn 21:01, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

First of all, I'm not an admin, so no, I'm not another example. I'm not familliar enough with why you're blocked, all I'm trying to say is attributing it to "fascism" doesn't exactly help your case. Keep calm and civil in the face of what you perceive to be irrational behavior. Take a breather, come back when your relatively short block expires, and if you get blocked again, hit me up and if I agree with you that it's unfair, I'll try to help your case. Just try to keep civil even if you believe a wrong was committed against you, that's all I ask. --kizzle 00:37, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your rationale, Kizzle. Although a warning or 24 hour ban would have been preferable, the situation escalated because, in my opinion, Sandover was for the most part refusing to acknowledge the points I was making. I was also frustrated by the fact that my very small additions/omissions were being completely reverted while I allowed his entire section to remain essentially intact. On top of that, the POV tag that I inserted (for both the anti-gay blurb and Sandover's edits) was being removed again and again without dialog. This was especially annoying because the tag was also intended for content that Sandover had nothing to do with. Even though I initially added the POV tag and explained it, I was in part banned for a 3RR, again, even though no one bothered to explain why it shouldn't be there. At that point, I was pretty comfortable calling the whole incident "fascistic" simply because the editors/Admins were moving along without me while silencing me by force. Haizum 01:55, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

AAARGH!!! It's the same thing AGAIN! My point wasn't that you were and example because you were an admin, you were an example because you just ignored all context and just focused on the words, nnot caring about HOW they were used. ANd now you choose to focus on the fact that you're NOT an admin, so you're NOT an example! ANd nthen what? You suggest a solution to the problem: calm down. Settle down. Take a break. Accept the inevitable, you're making trouble. Just conform and quit making waves. AAAAAAARRRGH!!!!!! Karwynn 16:08, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Glad to see you're back.

Hey. Just wanted to let you know I agree with 99.99% of what you say and I even like the way you say it. Unfortunately, wiki has rules against rubbing people's faces in their own bias/pov. We need you around to counter the liberal bias and you can't do that if you don't "play by the rules", so please do. Lawyer2b 04:16, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Admin problems plus re:Thanks

No problem, 'm glad to see that you're back. People who are combatting Wikibias need all the help they can get, although there's not terribly much that can be done about it. Take a look at this: User_talk:BigDaddy777#The_Wikipedia_That_Was. That's the section of his talk page that was declared "the nail on the coffin" in the arbitration.

And better yet, this: Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/BigDaddy777

Found this off a link from that kizzle guy's userPage. Make no mistake about it, this guy wasn't banned for the stuff they said he was, it was just for being out of line and persstent attempts to eliminate bias in political figures' articles. There were admins all over his user talk page, shamelessly calling him a troll, labeling his defenses as badgering, and even blatantly calling him stupid. My point? I can't even find the words to describe the lack of freedom of thought around here. I've been scouting for banned accounts (other than obvious vandals), and I'm getting really angry about all the people who were banned for not being Monty Python addicts who sit and drink weak tea with their pinkies in the air. THere are some serious, serious problems in the admin population as well as the way arbitrations are done. The accused don't even really get a chance to defend themselves. look at the way the "evidence" is presented in that arbitration: it's full of editorializing and commentary. "And then, the nail in the cofffin:" "This is what really crossed the line". YOu can tell just by looking at ANY of these arbitrations that all the users involved have no regard for the rules that are supposedly being broken; they've all just got a personal stake in who's being banned.

What I really wanted to say was that I've poked around Sceptre's (Will's) User page and am deeply disturbed... he says outright that he'll penalize some infractions of the same rule (personal attacks) based on the sensitive nature of the attack. Plus, he says point-blank that if anyone attacks him, they'll get blocked on the spot. That's not really the way it's supposed to be dealt with. And the way he handled the Laura Ingraham thing - from removing the POV tag, to restoring a version he preferred before protecting it, to protecting it in the first place - was highly inappropriate. So was the way he banned you. Take a look at this reference for indefinete blocks (aka bans): WP:BAN#Decision_to_ban He can't just ban you without some sort of consensus or something, but he did anyway. This guy's gotta go, and if I try to bring up a complaint, they'll tell me to shut up because it's none of my business. But if you were to complain to someone, I'd definitely do what I could (which I don't think would be much unfortunately). If you're not going to though, let me know and I'll find someone to complain to. These kind of edtors are a major hindrance to free editing and countering bias. Karwynn 16:34, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Make no mistake about it, this guy wasn't banned for the stuff they said he was, it was just for being out of line and persstent attempts to eliminate bias in political figures' articles. There were admins all over his user talk page, shamelessly calling him a troll, labeling his defenses as badgering, and even blatantly calling him stupid. My point? I can't even find the words to describe the lack of freedom of thought around here

Please. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. Did you see the second link with the evidence I provided against BigDaddy? There are rules (NOT guidelines) of conduct and civility around here. BigDaddy was not banned for expressing an alternative viewpoint, he was banned for consistently attacking his co-editors and engaging in a plethora of ad hominem attacks rather than relying on the merits of his arguments. If you believe certain articles are biased, then please engage with your co-editors in a civil manner and present arguments using sources according to Misplaced Pages guidelines, and you'll be fine. As long as you focus on the content and not the editor, and do so in a polite and civil manner, I think you'll find your co-editors to be more than willing to listen to your viewpoint. --kizzle 01:00, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

If I may put in my $.02. First, please take into consideration that, per Sceptre's (Will's) User page, he's only 15 years old. Second, as much as I adore Hazium, he was acting uncivilly. He's comments were pretty funny and mostly on the mark, but they were snide and overall obnoxious i.e. uncivil; and you can get banned for doing that as much as he did. Lawyer2b 01:48, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

P.S. - Regarding the bigdaddy incident, he had the same problem. He was smart and was accurate a lot, but he the waaaaaaaay he went about things was uncivil. Does that mean that people didn't want to get rid of him simply due to his political beliefs? No, of course some did. But if you know the rules and still violate them...and then find them used as an excuse to get you banned you are still to blame. Was that $.04? ;-) Lawyer2b 01:53, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

BigDaddy was certainly out of line, but when you see people GLOATING about him being banned, you know it wasn't just about the rules. If someone, for example, was gloating about it by including it near the top of their userpage almost a year after the fact, it's no longer about upholding the rules. It's about personal triumph and victory over the other person. No one in that situation was being civil; they were all acting like jerks to the same extent from what I read, yet only one got any punishment. And I still insist that editorializing the evidence presented before the accused even is able to put in his input is grossly unfair. And the point about his political beliefs was that his persistence was seen as trolling, and I guarantee it wouldn't have been if it had been the other way around. in fact, it takes two (or more) to edit war, but funny... I didn't see anyone else being called stupid or a troll.

However, the original point of this was to suggest a complaint about User:Sceptre and talk about general admin unfairness, not bring up old (though important) trash. If anyone wants to further admonish me about BigDaddy777, as they're welcome to do so, please take it to my talk page; I'm sure Haizum doesn't want me cluttering up his board. If I'm missing something about that incident (entirely possible, since it happened so long ago), I'd rather be corrected than be wrong, so don't hesitate. Karwynn 18:36, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Continued at your talk page. --kizzle 19:11, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Haha, thanks guys. Haizum 21:18, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Laura Ingraham

The disputes are being renewed! If your still interested in the direction of this article, your input is welcome!  :-) Karwynn 20:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Warning for personal attack

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