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Revision as of 21:09, 5 February 2014 editWnt (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users36,218 edits →Swartz material← Previous edit Revision as of 21:10, 5 February 2014 edit undoDrFleischman (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers25,325 edits →Swartz materialNext edit →
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:::If Noah is actively organizing the event then that should be in the article. But extensive information about Aaron's death that's unrelated to TDWFB shouldn't be included. The fact that Aaron's death is mentioned in most sources means that it should be mentioned here, not written up extensively. As the section is currently written it gives disproportionate attention to Swartz as compared to the reliable sources. It reads as ] for Demand Progress and detracts from the focus on TDWFB. I'm not saying that's your intention, but that's how it reads. --] (]) 19:09, 5 February 2014 (UTC) :::If Noah is actively organizing the event then that should be in the article. But extensive information about Aaron's death that's unrelated to TDWFB shouldn't be included. The fact that Aaron's death is mentioned in most sources means that it should be mentioned here, not written up extensively. As the section is currently written it gives disproportionate attention to Swartz as compared to the reliable sources. It reads as ] for Demand Progress and detracts from the focus on TDWFB. I'm not saying that's your intention, but that's how it reads. --] (]) 19:09, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
::::I left out the details of the alleged suicide, which are indeed irrelevant, but if you read practically ''any'' source about this event, it jumps back and forth between Swartz and the event. I'll admit that this perplexes me --- so far, I have not seen a word actually suggesting that the NSA spotted Swartz's mass download or had something to do with his prosecution, and so it's hard to see ''why'' the event is so tightly linked to it, or why his relatives didn't have a "Share A Paper" day instead. But we have to go with what the sources think is relevant, and hope that the reason why becomes apparent at some point. ] (]) 20:56, 5 February 2014 (UTC) ::::I left out the details of the alleged suicide, which are indeed irrelevant, but if you read practically ''any'' source about this event, it jumps back and forth between Swartz and the event. I'll admit that this perplexes me --- so far, I have not seen a word actually suggesting that the NSA spotted Swartz's mass download or had something to do with his prosecution, and so it's hard to see ''why'' the event is so tightly linked to it, or why his relatives didn't have a "Share A Paper" day instead. But we have to go with what the sources think is relevant, and hope that the reason why becomes apparent at some point. ] (]) 20:56, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
:::::No, we don't have to go with what the news sources think is relevant. We are ]. --] (]) 21:10, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
:I agree on undue weight to the founding participants section. It looks promotional. Regards, ] (]) 19:14, 5 February 2014 (UTC) :I agree on undue weight to the founding participants section. It looks promotional. Regards, ] (]) 19:14, 5 February 2014 (UTC)


Revision as of 21:10, 5 February 2014

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A fact from The Day We Fight Back appeared on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the Did you know column on 4 February 2014 (check views). A record of the entry may be seen at Misplaced Pages:Recent additions/2014/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The Day We Fight Back.
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Possible additions

Hack of MIT to announce TDWFB

  • An interesting screenshot of the hack is here. The hack was to a sub-domain, per Hacker News

From the Daily Dot

  • Ironically, this is the first major online protest against those spy programs, though there have been three major physical protests. Each of those were tied to symbolic dates— Restore the Fourth (a nod to the Fourth Amendment, which guarantees privacy, held on the Fourth of July), 1984 Day on Aug. 4, and on the 12th anniversary of the Patriot Act, which provided the legal basis for many of the NSA's current practices. Feb. 11 is no different: It's one of several proposed days to honor Aaron Swartz...
  • "If Aaron were alive he'd be on the front lines, fighting back against these practices that undermine our ability to engage with each other as genuinely free human beings," said David Segal of Demand Progress.
  • "To be clear, pushing back against agencies like the NSA and the U.K.'s is a far more difficult task than calling lawmakers en masse to argue against a single bill, as was the case with SOPA."

Segal et al Reddit AMA

  • At his Reddit "Ask Me Anything" about TDWFB, David Segal said: "We need our legislators to hear from people who love the Internet that we won’t stand by and let it be turned into a giant tool for mass surveillance"

Charges dropped against Swartz

  • From Creative Commons cofounder Lawrence Lessig: Swartz was "driven to the edge by what a decent society would only call bullying." Dot. The pardon and response to Swartz' apparent suicide might have a place in the article alongside mention of his charges. petrarchan47tc 01:08, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

MIT hack-- undue?

I'm inclined to think we're focusing too much on one hacker, who is not affiliated with any of the organizations involved, who claims to support The Day We Fight Back, but might just as easily be attempting to discredit them.

Absent any genuine reliable sources about who the hacker was or what his motives were, it's not notable on this article. At the end of the day, what are we reporting: that some anonymous guy on the internet posted a message claiming he supports TDWFB? Not Notable here. --HectorMoffet (talk) 06:23, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Agree, I think the "history" section essentially been used as filler as there isn't that much to say about the protest itself at this stage. benmoore 09:07, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
The hack occurred at most a day after the event was announced, and contributed a significant fraction of the total news buzz around it - and the only thing it is is news buzz - so it seems quite relevant. Wnt (talk) 15:25, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

More undue concerns

I have concerns about the notability of most (not all) of the article:

  • Background: The references to Swartz in the reliable sources are mostly in passing; we don't need a whole section about a subject that's only of tangential relevance. A few sentences would be totally sufficient.
  • Founding participants: This section could be written in a single sentence. Bullet points might be a clearer way to structure it, but there's no reason for multiple sentences on each entity. All of these organizations have their own articles that can be read for more details.
  • Response to Obama's NSA speech: This section has no reliable secondary sources, and as such, should probably be deleted on notability grounds. Not to mention that the cited primary source (EFF) actually says the report card was created by EFF, not by TDWFB. As such I'm deleting it.

Honestly I think this article, while narrowly passing the WP:GNG threshold, probably merits 2-3 paragraphs total. At least, based on its current sourcing. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 20:16, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

I've made some bold changes accordingly. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 21:06, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Swartz material

According to , Aaron Swartz's brother Noah Swartz is "actively organizing" TDWFB. There's scarcely an article that talks about this event without mentioning him. The relevance isn't tangential. Wnt (talk) 13:03, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
If Noah is actively organizing the event then that should be in the article. But extensive information about Aaron's death that's unrelated to TDWFB shouldn't be included. The fact that Aaron's death is mentioned in most sources means that it should be mentioned here, not written up extensively. As the section is currently written it gives disproportionate attention to Swartz as compared to the reliable sources. It reads as promotion for Demand Progress and detracts from the focus on TDWFB. I'm not saying that's your intention, but that's how it reads. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 19:09, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
I left out the details of the alleged suicide, which are indeed irrelevant, but if you read practically any source about this event, it jumps back and forth between Swartz and the event. I'll admit that this perplexes me --- so far, I have not seen a word actually suggesting that the NSA spotted Swartz's mass download or had something to do with his prosecution, and so it's hard to see why the event is so tightly linked to it, or why his relatives didn't have a "Share A Paper" day instead. But we have to go with what the sources think is relevant, and hope that the reason why becomes apparent at some point. Wnt (talk) 20:56, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
No, we don't have to go with what the news sources think is relevant. We are not a newspaper. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 21:10, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
I agree on undue weight to the founding participants section. It looks promotional. Regards, Iselilja (talk) 19:14, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
Well, let's get some clarity: I think there were something like 100 organizations signed on to this. How were the specific organizations selected chosen to be described in more detail? Wnt (talk) 21:09, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Founding participants

HectorMoffet restored this entire section saying it could be cut down but should not be deleted entirely. In fact I had simply consolidated it into the lead. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 19:18, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

Background / Connection with death of Aaron Swartz

I removed a fair amount of material from the "Background" section that was more about Aaron Swartz and of limited relevance to the protest, moved the bit about the announcement of the protest to the lead section (since it seems of sufficient notability), and re-named the section to "Connection with death of Aaron Swartz." In response Ross Hill re-added the extra Swartz material and changed the heading back to "Background" with the comment: "This section is more than just the connection with his death. It also talks about the announcement of the day we fight back."

This doesn't make sense to me. The section is currently solely about the Swartz connection. The bit about the announcement isn't there anymore. And the comment doesn't address why all of this Swartz material should be re-added. It's already covered in other articles and really adds nothing to this one, IMO. --Dr. Fleischman (talk) 22:15, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

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