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Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Yemen Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Yemen, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Yemen on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.YemenWikipedia:WikiProject YemenTemplate:WikiProject YemenYemen Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Countries This article is within the scope of WikiProject Countries, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of countries on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CountriesWikipedia:WikiProject CountriesTemplate:WikiProject Countriescountry WikiProject Countries to-do list: edit history watch purge Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : Check out the article alerts; see if anything catches your fancy. Cleanup : clean-up listing for Countries Stubs : de-stub articles in Category:Stubs by region. Other : add {{WPCountries}} to talk pages of related articles, and assess. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Western Asia High‑importance This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Western Asia, which collaborates on articles related to Western Asia. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Western AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject Western AsiaTemplate:WikiProject Western AsiaWestern Asia High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Arab world Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Arab world, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Arab world on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Arab worldWikipedia:WikiProject Arab worldTemplate:WikiProject Arab worldArab world Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Template:WP1.0

A fact from this article was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the On this day section on May 22, 2004, May 22, 2005, May 22, 2006, May 22, 2007, May 22, 2008, May 22, 2010, May 22, 2011, May 22, 2012, and May 22, 2013.

foreign relations

i hope that whoever wrote that section was not a saudi arabian. i edited because it was ignoring the saudi role in yemen and the fact that saleh's government used al-qaeda against houthis. The article is about yemen not Somalia, yet a large portion of the section was discussing the "historical good relations" between Yemenis and Somalians. uh.. no they don't especially the tribes who look down to Somalians as slaves. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.14.212 (talk) 09:14, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Yemeni people

I don't get it; why isn't there an article for Yemenis as an ethnic group? I searched it, but it took me to a disambiguation page, and the only similar option was the page on Yemen Demographics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.117.24 (talk) 18:49, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Such ethnic group doesn't exist. --YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII (talk) 06:31, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

History of Yemen

The history (on this page and all of the history pages) is very vague about the origins of Yemen itself, the word, the modern concept. Has this area always been called Yemen? When it was incorporated into other empires in ancient times was Yemen considered a place? Or is Yemen a modern creation. Or to put it a different way, is there a mountain range or some geographic feature to the north that defines the border? I looked it up because I saw that Saudi Arabia was most of the peninsula, and I was curious how the tip ended up being different countries... the info I sought wasn't really here.

In fact, there's no border. --YOMAL SIDOROFF-BIARMSKII (talk) 06:33, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Demographics

A question about Yemen's Demographics: I have read that Yemen has a native black population who do not have recent African origin. It is believed that these people are decendants of the first wave of people to leave Africa thousands of years ago. There are only a few populations of these people that still exist. The Andamanese are one of the more famous groups from that lineage.

There is no mention of these people in the demographics section. Is there actually a native, non-african, black population who have been omitted, or do these people not actually exist? It would be good if someone who actually lives or has lived in Yemen could clarify this for me. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 211.30.68.206 (talk • contribs) 09:36, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

The part about "a native black population who do not have recent African origin. It is believed that these people are decendants of the first wave of people to leave Africa thousands of years ago." is, of course, nonsense. If they really were so long in Yemen, they would have mixed up with the rest long time ago. This is not the remote Andaman islands. The lighter majority is in Yemen for a long time. СЛУЖБА (talk) 02:13, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi, most of the black population live close to the sea, either the red sear or arabian sea, and believed to be the remenants of the army of Ashab Alfeel, Ibrahah Alashram, from the Habashi Invasion to Yemen. Some of the troops just stayed in Yemen and lived there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.20.170.189 (talk) 07:15, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

There is a statistic for the Shia/Sunni Split in Yemen being 13-15/85-88 and as its citation it links to the Yemen embassy in Canada site, however I visited that site and the Yemen Embassy in Canada says that there are 55% Sunnis and 42% Shia, I am changing it to reflect the information of the cited site —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.52.215.67 (talk) 23:25, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

The UNHCR web site to which a link is provided in the article here (footnote 36) and the Yemeni sources all give the break down for Sunni/Shia (Zaydis, Ismailis, Imamis) as 53/47 and 55/45 respectively. Whoever is tampering with these figures, is counting that his vandalizing this article will not be discovered by keeping the citations on, but misrepresenting their content. That is a shame. By changing figures on Misplaced Pages, he/she cannot change the facts on the ground in Yemen itself. One hopes that the religious war being waged in the Middle East between the Wahhabis and the Shias do not become pervasive here as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Izady (talk • contribs) 03:19, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

In page about North Yemen it is said it had population of some 7 milion in 1990. In page abouth South Yemen, it is said that it had population of some 2,6 milion in 1990. And just 20 years later, unified Yemen has population of some 23 milion? How come? —Preceding unsigned comment added by YossarianBa (talk • contribs) 20:44, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Nothing odd. Yemen has a VERY high fertility. СЛУЖБА (talk) 02:18, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Population

The info box says a population of 23 million as of 2009, while in the demographics subsection it says 28 million in 2005, that's a horribly large difference. Could someone sort that one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.71.31.52 (talk) 03:04, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Longitude

This article's factual accuracy is disputed. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. Please help to ensure that disputed statements are reliably sourced. (March 2008) (Learn how and when to remove this message)

Longitude "12d 24m E" of the capital is wrong. Also say "the population" instead of "the size, in terms of population". --User:Jidanni 2006-07-24

I fixed the phrasing, at least. -- Beland 23:35, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Culture?

why is ONLY Qat under culture? Yemen has a FAR richer culture than some leaf you chew, refer to www.myspace.com/yemeni_culture.com, -Mokha 128.208.35.227 22:57, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I have deleted this segment and planning to post (very soon) something meaningful to it to replace the shallow piece that was definitely a misrepresentation to the rich culture of Yemen. My apologies to the person who originally posted this, but, I just can’t allow Yemen’s face be distorted on my watch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.165.144.50 (talk) 01:07, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Sana'a

Could someone clarify why Sana'a population is listed as being larger than the governate it is in? Does it extend beyond the governate, or are these numbers from two different years, or are they just wrong, or what? -- Beland 23:37, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

the population listed is wrong —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.250.55.144 (talk) 19:50, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Sana'a population listed is not city population, the city proper is separate governorate Amanat al Simah and so capital population is not included in Sana'a governorate as capital is not its part. The population numbers are official 2004 national census Bogomolov.PL (talk) 06:14, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Human Rights (Shiaa)

The Zaydi Shiaa's are not discriminated against. All presidents and powerful military leaders of Northern Yemen and of united Yemen are of Zaydi orgin. But the problem with Al-Houthi is a new problem with the extremist militant Zaydi group called Al-Shabab Al-Mo'men. It only involves a few thousand fighters it does not involve the millions of Shia's in Yemen. The supreme Shiaa council and its leader are unknown to most people. I tried searching for it on the internet and only found the mentioned quote. Thinking that the president was advised to kill all shia's is really stupid because he would not kill his own tribe in such a tribal country. Wikiarabia (talk) 12:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The mentioned reference is a blog and is not considered a reliable source. What the reference says makes no sense and was not published in any newspaper. The reference only contains the quote by the head of the Supreme Yemeni Shia and does not say anything about discrimination against shia's.

This is a link to a more unbiased report about the Saada war.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/shabab-al-moumineen.htm

This link confirms that the president himself is Zaidi.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6331149.stm

If you insist on putting the quote by the shia supreme council you have to put the other side of the story.

Wikiarabia (talk) 13:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

1. The first sentence claiming that Zaidiyyah Shias are subject to abuse by the government is not mentioned in any of your references. This is User:Zeydi's opinion and should be removed.

2. The quote form the Chief of the Yemeni Supreme SHia Council. This Council is unheard of. I tried searching google in both Arabic and English and the only thing I could find was this quote. This council doesn't even have a website. There is no name for the Cheif of the Council. There is no way he could know what advice is given to the president. Even if all this were true why should this be put in the Human Rights section of Yemen if the President received bad advice from some Iraqi advisors. Besides the President himself is Shia(FACT) and his tribe are Shia(FACT) and in such a tribal country he would not kill his own tribe so this whole quote doesn't make any sense.

3. Al-Sistani's opinion is biased simply because he is a religious Shia figure who has never been to Yemen he was only told the story from the Shia rebels. I accept leaving this sentence but you should also add a sentence quoting somebody from the Yemeni government calling those Shia'a rebels Terrorists so you could have all points of view.

4. I don't see what the quote from Nizar Hamzeh has to do with the Human Rights of Shia muslims. Besides that is a personal opinion of some Academic.

5. All what User:Zeydi has written is one side of the story. There must be another side which is the war that his been going on since 2004 because this is the main cause of everything mentioned by User:Zeydi.

6. There should be a separation between the vast majority of Shia Muslims in Yemen and Al-Houthi's followers. There is no discrimination against Shia Muslims in General and here are some examples (remember Shias are about 40% of the population):

A. The current President and all previous presidents (of northern Yemen) were Zaydi Shia (FACT) B. All official Mofti's of the Republic of Yemen were Zaydi Shia (FACT) C. The Big Mosque in Sana'a (the Capital) is a Zaydi Shia mosque and the Friday Prayer in this mosque is shown everyweek on national TV (FACT) D. The president's relatives are the most powerful people in the country and they're mostly Zaydi Shia (FACT).Wikiarabia (talk) 09:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Since there is an unbiased article on the Sa'dah insurgency which explains everything about that war I suggest having a short paragraph like this:

Since the start of the Sa'dah insurgency hundreds of Zaydi Shia's accused of supporting Al-Houthi have been arrested and held without charge or trial. Some Zaydis reported harassment and discrimination by the Government because they were suspected of sympathizing with the al-Houthis. However, it appears the Government's actions against the group were probably politically, not religiously, motivated. Wikiarabia (talk) 10:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Economy

Yemen is a poor country but it is not the poorest country in the World at least not by GDP per Capita. Such statetment should have a reference to some statistics not just stated as a fact because it is not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiarabia (talk • contribs) 09:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC) In fact according to IMF there are 47 countries that have less GDP per capita than Yemen. The the iraqi aid to Yemen is a lie because Iraq itself was under sanctions and Iraqi children were dying because of lack of medicines. If there was any aid the reference should mention how much money was paid to Yemen and provide reliable resources.Wikiarabia (talk) 10:04, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:ANewDayinOldSana'a.jpg

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Sana'a links

The actual title of the article for Sana'a is now just that. All of the links in the article refer to San'a', which merely redirects to the article. Is this intentional or outdated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.36.124.14 (talk) 01:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

tiny mistake

the image with cheney is wrong because he's now no longer vice president. that image description needs to be changed. im new to wikipedia so i dont know how to do it.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.55.210.172 (talk • contribs) 00:14, 20 February 2009

Hi there, welcome to Misplaced Pages. The caption already says "former" Vice President? To get started with editing, take a look at Misplaced Pages:Tutorial. — Hex (❝?!❞) 01:04, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

♥ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.24.252.110 (talk) 21:13, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Only republic on the arabian peninsula?

It says in the intro that Yeman is the only republic on the Arabian peninsula. What about Syria (Syrian Arab Republic), Israel (State of Israel), Lebanon (Republic of Lebanon) and others? YeshuaDavid (talk) 12:44, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Those are not on the Arabian peninsula. TastyCakes (talk) 14:38, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Hmm sorry I take that back, according to that article it looks like Syria is within the political and geographical definition of the peninsula. So I agree, the intro should be changed... TastyCakes (talk) 14:40, 30 March 2009 (UTC) Sorry again, I was looking at Jordan, not Syria. It seems by the political definition of the Arabian peninsula, the article is correct. However since the "geographical definition" includes parts of other republics, perhaps this statement should be removed as misleading... TastyCakes (talk) 14:45, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Independence?

Why does it not say anything about Yemen's independence from the United Kingdom in the infobox? Flosssock1 (talk) 21:41, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmm I agree it should seem to say it. I've added it in. TastyCakes (talk) 21:12, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Flosssock1 (talk) 14:47, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

page view

Wow, this article went from 3.500 page views on December 20, to 39.500 page views on December 30. The Ministry (talk) 21:36, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Why two governate maps?

Given that this article is part of the English version of Misplaced Pages, what is the point of including a second map of the governates in Arabic? phreakydancin (talk) 20:23, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

 Done Already dealt with by 14 July 2010

Government and politics

Why doesn't this article have a Government and politics section like every other country article on Misplaced Pages? That seems like pretty basic information to include. Kaldari (talk) 05:40, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. The History of Yemen and Foreign relations of Yemen articles are very brief, and do not adequately cover the governing structures or relations of the nation. The inclusion of a Government and politics section seems quite important. CSvensgaard (talk) 03:26, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Have started a Governance section, including details of the administrative divisions. Anyone care to add information on national government? Skinsmoke (talk) 17:42, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

 Done It's back! The sections on Politics and Administrative divisions were lost during a vandal attack on 28 February 2010. An editor partially reverted the attack, but missed these two. I have restored the deleted text under Governance. Skinsmoke (talk) 18:07, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Etymology of Yemen

The article ']' states regarding the etymology of the name Yemen the following: "Yemen or al-yaman means "the south". One etymology derives Yemen from yamin the "right side" as the south is on the right when facing the sunrise; yet this etymology is considered suspect. Another derives Yemen from yumn meaning "felicity" as the region is fertile; indeed the Romans called it Arabia Felix." This would imply the origin of the word is from some Arabic word. But the Cambridge History of Islam, Vol 1A, page 6 passingly remarks the following: "may possibly be called the Yemenites, from a Sabaic word which denotes south". This would mean, or for that matter any other Arabic origin, Yemen has been named from the vantage point of a place north of Yemen, which is strange. Anyone has any idea? Can someone add this origin somewhere in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Prophetoffrivolity (talk • contribs) 12:12, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Since both Arabic and Sabaic are Semitic, they could have had the same words. I'm not a specialist on this, however.

I don't see any oddities in a country taking the name its' neighbours call it. Such examples are abundant in history.

I'm adding this etymology to the article. СЛУЖБА (talk) 02:33, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I noticed this entry after I put in my entry on Etymology below. I'm doing a copy and paste: There is something wrong with this section about the source of the word "Yemen". I can't speak for the word yumn, but it appears that the word "falicity" actually means something like happiness, not fertility. Also the Latin word "felix" actually means lucky, not firtile. Apparently the Roman reference to "Arabia Felix" actually ment "Lucky Arabia" and not "Firtile Arabia". This is according to Wiktionary upon looking up the word "falicity". The "Arabia Felix" name for Yemen makes me very curious about what happened there for the Romans to consider it lucky.DavidHenrickson (talk) 12:27, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Population of Sana'a

I corrected a caption to reflect its Aramco World citation, and used the one million present population from the chart of governates. However, it looks like the present population is about two million: http://www.bing.com/search?q=Sana'a+Yemen So my caption fix was probably wrong, but I can't count noses and won't make all the figures agree. Bing isn't a splendid source. Maybe someone else could? - 67.224.51.189 (talk) 01:12, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Where is Hawta?

I can't find it on any maps, but the NYTimes has an article about it.http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/22/world/middleeast/22yemen.html Ydorb (talk) 21:42, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Yemen need help

Please I don't want Iraq II. But i think if we don't speak abut this. Lot of people will death: petrol is the matter, the fast money ist the problem... Realy the terrorist send in a fly Bombs?? please, i don't think so... if one terrorist could one attack don't send bombs in a fly, they don't are so much stupid!! Petrol, new construcction, new market for: the bigs companys!!!! this companys are the terrorist!! and FMI, EEUU, Europe help there... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.33.85.97 (talk) 23:54, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

The Yemen

Isn't this country also known as the Yemen? For example, there is the book Salmon Fishing in the Yemen by Paul Torday. This may be an exclusively British English usage, but it does exist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rredwell (talk • contribs) 19:35, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

A Presidential republic?

This article defines Yemen as a Presidential republic, with a directly elected executive president, but according to its own Government section, the Head of Government is actually the Prime Minister, who must be approved by two-thirds of the Assembly of Representatives. This appears to be the definition of a semi-presidential republic, in which the Prime Minister and President share executive power and the Prime Minister must be approved by the legislature, so why is it defined as a Presidential republic?--90.199.141.85 (talk) 20:05, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

As of today the president on the page is listed as "unknown" -- is this a sign of "abuse", or did Saleh get overthrown, and the new head of government has not yet been determined? Stopde (talk) 12:30, 21 November 2011 (UTC)Stopde

هاى بدى اتعرف ممكن

] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.239.111.14 (talk) 20:44, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

شاب جزائري حر

هل استطيع التعرف...... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.200.53.243 (talk) 09:31, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Nothing yet on Yemen's climate, the object of my inquiry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.40.56.184 (talk) 13:49, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Saleh is President according to incumbant Yemeni authorities.

It is a bad thing that Misplaced Pages underrepresents the official view of incumbant Yemeni authorities that Saleh is still President. СЛУЖБА (talk) 23:24, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

I see it was an uncited anon edit. I reverted it on this page. Needs to be reverted on other pages as well. СЛУЖБА (talk) 00:28, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Etymology

There is something wrong with this section about the source of the word "Yemen". I can't speak for the word yumn, but it appears that the word "falicity" actually means something like happiness, not fertility. Also the Latin word "felix" actually means lucky, not firtile. Apparently the Roman reference to "Arabia Felix" actually ment "Lucky Arabia" and not "Firtile Arabia". This is according to Wiktionary upon looking up the word "falicity". The "Arabia Felix" name for Yemen makes me very curious about what happened there for the Romans to consider it lucky.DavidHenrickson (talk) 12:05, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Territory

Could someone make the island of Socotra on the map in the country infobox green, as it belongs to Yemen. RikSchuiling (talk) 09:27, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Yamnat

Under "Etymology", the word "yamnat" is said to be in Old South Arabian. I was puzzled, as the script of the same only used consonants. Perhaps some other version gives vowels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.222.5 (talk) 16:33, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

1962

It is not clear who abolished slavery in 1962. There was something of a change in the government at that time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.222.5 (talk) 16:40, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

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racial and ethnic affiliation of slaves

Why do you think this is not important? The rationale seems one of personal choice. As a reader of African history I would like to know this info.--Inayity (talk) 17:50, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Good point. It turns out that the Najahid slave dynasty in Tihama came from only one specific group in Ethiopia, the Jazali. Middayexpress (talk) 14:53, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Anyone who makes edits without rationale or a wiliness to use the talk page can be reverted b/c it is not how we develop and article by head strong unilateral editing. Yusuf is actively editing but I am waiting for a reply. --Inayity (talk) 12:18, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Indeed User:Inayity. He just tried to remove the specification that the slaves were from the Jazali group. I notice his revert-warring on Najahids with you and User:AcidSnow over the same issue. Hardly neutral. Middayexpress (talk) 14:59, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

I just recently went there to that page so not aware of the history of edit conflict.--Inayity (talk) 15:00, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Well User:Inayity and User:AcidSnow, it would appear that "Yousef" is now avoiding discussion altogether . He has also begun reverting admins as well , . Middayexpress (talk) 14:29, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Ok, lets just see how the noticeboard plays out. Also a more clearer one of him refusing to discuss . AcidSnow (talk) 20:12, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

If the user wants to edit without discussing his edits there is a solution for that also, so he might find his energy is being wasted making these large changes. BTW no one WP:OWNS anything-- just b/c they from YemenItalic text

Indeed. Middayexpress (talk) 14:44, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

User:AcidSnow, thanks for the link. "Yousef" appears to have threatened you there. Middayexpress (talk) 14:44, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

I did not threat anyone, as for the slave ethnic origin and such, i believe that any details should be under the demographics section. for example, the United States article mentions slavery but does not put much emphasis regarding their tribal origin, it simply mentions that they were African. So i do believe that the history section should not include much details regarding the slaves tribal origin either because i do think it is undue weight to the article and the section. if it must be included it should be under the demographics section or in a separate article titled Slavery in Yemen --يوسف حسين (talk) 08:24, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

You did at various times threatened both myself and User:AcidSnow (e.g. "just stay away from any Yemen related article" ). At any rate, the U.S. page is an inappropriate analogy for a number of reasons, not least of which is the fact that the specific ethnic groups that African American slaves came from are manifold and uncertain. By contrast, the specific Jazali identity of the Najahid dynasty rulers is known. "African slaves" is also about as descriptive as "Asian slaves" -- it could refer to any number of often completely unrelated populations. Please see below for the rest. Middayexpress (talk) 13:43, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

file a complaint! you keep circling around this in a pathetic way you know that? i did not threat you or any one here so stop bringing that up whenever you get the chance. --يوسف حسين (talk) 17:10, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

I'll bear that in mind. Middayexpress (talk) 18:43, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

"file a complaint!", would you also like us to file one on the racial overtones of your messages and edits? AcidSnow (talk) 23:51, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Please :)--يوسف حسين (talk) 00:23, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Sheba and the removal of a picture

• User:AcidSnow removed a picture in this edit and according to him, the picture has nothing to do with Sabaeans rather with ancient history of Yemen. And that was enough reason for him to remove the picture . The Sabaeans are civilization that existed in ancient Yemen, so there is no conflict here and no justified reason was provided for the removal of that pic. So i will post the picture again simply because it is of a Sabaean woman and being Sabaean does not contradict with being ancient Yemeni.

• As for Sheba and its relation with Saba. Sheba is just a hebrew diversion of the same word. The word in Arabic and Amhraic is Saba. Arabic bibles do not distinguish simply because it is about the same people. The Quran as well does not distinguish there is an entire chapter about Sheba (its legendary queen actually) under the title Saba (sura). User:AcidSnow argued that Yemen is not widely known as home of the Sabaeans but i beg to differ. This source says the following  :

The ancient Sabaean kingdom lasted from the early second millennium to the first century BC; the queen of sheba reportedly lived during the 1000 BC time frame. Yemen was the headquarter that controlled coastal areas of Ethiopia and Eritrea, whose people are descendant of unions between ancient Arabians and natives of those countries. It is proposed that the Semitic colonization of Ethiopia was established in the tenth century BC from Sheba. Beside the horn of africa, the kingdom of Sheba's sphere of influence included and controlled the eastern and southern trade routes through ports on the red sea, south of the gulf of Aqaba

• So i do believe that the Sabaeans are the closest people to biblical Sheba. Robert D. Burrowes wrote in his Historical dictionary of Yemen :

  although ethiopians dispute this, Saba is most certainly biblical Sheba

• I believe there was no justified reason to remove the following sentence from the introduction : Yemen was home of the Sabaeans (biblical Sheba), a trading state that flourished for over a thousand years.--يوسف حسين (talk) 08:11, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

"User:AcidSnow argued that Yemen is not widely known as home of the Sabaeans", *sigh*, where did I say this? Since you obviously can not find it I would like to ask you to please not put words in my mouth. What I actually said was, "the image has nothing to do with Sheba (so how could my "Afrocentrism" be the reason for it?) nor the Sabeans, but rather just "Art from Ancient Yemen". The image is also not sourced since it's a "own work"". As you can see I said no such thing; so where did you get that I argued that Sabaeans are not from Yemen?

• well, you said it right here . I do not understand your point, Own work means that the one who uploaded the picture owns it, He took the picture himself. He did not create the sculpture he just took a picture of a subject dated to the Sabeaan era (ancient Yemen)! so i still think the usage of the picture is pretty logical in the article. --يوسف حسين (talk) 00:35, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

As for the quotes you used, I am unable to find either of them in the book. It also rather appears to be handed typed than a complete quote from the book. In fact, it appears that you actually edited the second one just so it could support you. As for Sheba begin Saba, the book you provided regards the only difference is spelling. Anyways, as I said before, there are other sources that go against your book so why do you continue to add this though you already know that? This is still being discussed and it does not give you the right/power to have the final word in this discussion.

• of course i hand typed it because i can't copy and paste something from a google book. I provided two sources and there are others. I did not say that i have the final word, if you have other sources let us discuss them. I will bring mine and you bring yours, but do not remove a properly cited information until proven wrong. I added information you removed them without any further explanation. --يوسف حسين (talk) 00:35, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

"i do believe", you do realize your opinion does not hold any "weight" as your are not a historian nor a archaeologist? Also how am I Afrocentric? Since you still believe that we are I would like to know how you cam to that conclusion.

Also, since you "now what admin ed johnson meant" why did you go on to say he said we were "pan-Africanist"; which is untrue?

Not just those, but you were asked to use the talk page before you make edits so you could receive consensus. You however, put words in my mouth, lied, and went on without consensus. AcidSnow (talk) 23:45, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

• Everyone has a belief and i based mine upon the sources. If you have other questions that are not related to Sheba/Saba please leave them on my talk page. I expanded the article and remember one thing that my edit was the one that got reverted before proven wrong..I did not revert user midday express last edits, but i hope we reach a common ground soon --يوسف حسين (talk) 00:35, 7 February 2014 (UTC).
• You did revert my edit again, properly cited information without providing a counter argument. According to you I "have failed to receive census", how am i going o receive census if you do not discuss the edit? was it inaccurate or do you have a problem with the sources?--يوسف حسين (talk) 02:30, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Other Sources Regarding Sheba

Ok Acid Snow, the quotes can be found in the sources provided above if you can't find them than it's your own problem. Here is another quote from a book titled New Inscriptions and Seals Relating to the Biblical World - published in 2012  :

....This recently published inscription published by Francios Baron and I, appeared on the market of antiques early in 2008. It is unprovenanced but its content indicate that it was probably found in the ancient city of Nashq, today Al Bayda. It is broken and incomplete having only the remains of 25 lines. It was dedicated by "Sabahhumu son of 'Ammshafaq" (from the clan) of Rawshan (line 1-2), inhabiting Nashq. This man was a massenger of Yadail Bayin son of Yatha'amir KING OF SHEBA (line 17-18). This is the first mention of the "town of Judah" in a Sabaean and more generally south Arabian inscription.

Another quote from On the Reliability of the Old Testament- published in 2003  :

Where did she come from (the queen of Sheba)? Hebrew Sheba is universally admitted to be the same name as the place-name commonly transcribed "Saba" that denotes a community and kingdom in ancient Yemen in southwest Arabia

And another sources title The Ancient Arabs: Nomads on the Borders of the Fertile Crescent, 9Th-5Th Centuries B.C published 1982 :

AS for the Sabaeans, recent research on South Arabia has removed all doubt about the existence there of the Kingdom of Sheba in the 8th century BC. Nevertheless, it is unreasonble to connect the Sabaeans in Tiglath-Pileser III list with the kingdom of Sheba in South Arabia, since the other groups mentioned can be found in North Arabia and North Sinai....

This source titled Text and History: Historiography and the Study of the Biblical Text-published 2005  :

As new evidence has come to light, it has became more and more untenable to claim that the biblical account of the Queen of Sheba is legendary. First of all, though many legends connect her with ancient Ethiopia, we know now that it is much more likely that she resided in the country of Saba in Southwest Arabia on the Eastern tip of the red sea, present day Yemen.

and he goes on explaining why he thinks that and debunking the idea of another Sheba in Northwestern Arabia. in any case, there are more modern scholarly work about this in addition to public Yemeni lore regarding the legendary queen. I was told to cite historians so i did. Acid snow i assume since you are Somali (maybe i am wrong) that you may know just enough Arabic to get by, you do realize that no distinguishing is made in Arabic bibles and the Quran between Sheba and Saba, right? You should have read or at least being told about the story of Balikis and Solomon when you were a kid. It is in the Tafsir but maybe i am assuming a lot of things. Tell me what you think of the sources provided above --يوسف حسين (talk) 10:11, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Regarding Ethiopia and its national myth about Sheba, a book titled Popular Controversies in World History: Investigating History's Intriguing Questions:

The most obvious points of contention concern the question of the historicity of the Kebra Negast.The primary issue among these us the identification of Ethiopia with the biblical Sheba. Most scholars propose that the biblical Sheba was the historical Saba. The center of this kingdom is recognized as having been in southwest Arabia, in modern day Yemen. However, some discussion concerning the possibility that Saba, or Sheba, may still have been used in reference to Ethiopia exists. Some authors cite the historian Josephus, who called the queen of Sheba the queen of Egypt and Ethiopia. However, in Josephus's time, the term Ethiopia would have been attributed to the kingdom of Meroe in modern Sudan, not the modern nation of Ethiopia. Clearly Josephus's writing cannot be seen as supporting the narrative of the Kebra Nagast. A further possibility of support comes from a royal inscription that refers to Saba. The inscription appears to be an attempt to lay claim to the rule of the Sabaean people in Ethiopia by a ruler named D'amat. Linguistic evidence and material remains indicate that the Ethiopian Sabaeans represented in the inscription were linked to the larger Kingdom in Yemen....

There are others but i got tired of quoting. tell me what you think and i hope that we can work something out before resulting to a third opinion.--يوسف حسين (talk) 12:49, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

Najahid

• The Najahid dynasty controlled no more than the city of Zabid, They had Ethiopian origin but were fully assimilated to that city society. The Yemeni author 'Uamar said that there were no ethnic differences between the Arabs of Tihama and their slaves because Arabs intermarried with them. The Najahid dynasty was established by those slaves. regarding their ethnic link as being Jazili, it should be under the demographics section. That the Yemenis around Zabid intermarried excessively with their slaves who were brought from such and such area and race. Not a lot of people are familiar with the term "Jazili" and i believe that the term Ethiopian is common and easy to relate to since we are talking about the middle ages section. --يوسف حسين (talk) 08:36, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

I see you are using the talk page, but you may have missed the part where you are supposed to get agreement before making major changes, NOT make major changes and then come on the TK and explain them. --Inayity (talk) 09:51, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

• Yeah i am using the talk page, i did not make "major" changes i just changed "Jazili" to Ethiopian. I do not see the necessity for emphasizing the alleged difference between "Jazili" and Ethiopian since "Jazili" is just an ethnic group within Ethiopia. So Ethiopian is a more proper term to use in the middle ages history. Any distinguishing should be made under the demographic section--يوسف حسين (talk) 11:35, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

but what term does the reference use? As Ethiopia is a big place that does not match modern day Ethiopia--Inayity (talk) 12:21, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

• I do not know about Ethiopia being a bigger place but the refrence uses this term since you asked :

  The complex and little known story of the rise and fall of the Najahid princes of Zabid (Middayexpress reveted this and made them rulers of Tihama), a city that was one of the early recipient of Abyssinian slaves.. The defeated Najahid who were of Abyssinian slave origin..

and this source  :::::

It is known that, like the Ziyadids before them, the Najahid. constantly brought over shiploads of Ethiopian slaves to Yemen

In AD 1001 power fell to an Ethiopian slave of the Ziyadids, and then to a second Ethiopian slave, named Najah (AD 1012), whose position was again confirmed by the caliph

since you wanted to know what term the reference use.--يوسف حسين (talk) 17:45, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Per WikiProject Countries, the demographics section is reserved for modern demographics of the local population. The history section is earmarked for actual historical events (and major events at that), so that's where the Najahid material belongs. That said, I've restored the specific Jazali identity of the Najahids. "Ethiopian slaves" is much too broad and vague. It could apply to any population in Ethiopia, whereas the Najahid slaves actually only came from one specific historic group. As the admin asked you on your talk page, kindly do not revert again until consensus has been established.Middayexpress (talk) 13:43, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

• No it does belong to the demographic section as this source say :

A tribe of Ethiopian origin called Jazali had furnished slaves to the Najahids.One of the consequences of the influx of of Ethiopian and Nubian female slaves was it impact on the racial configuration of the host...

and another source say

Arab men in these coastal regions have children with black slaves

• the reason behind mentioning this was the fact that highlanders had a difficult time distinguishing Arabs from their slaves in Zabid, the Sulayhids (Hashidi tribesmen) had to put the people of Zabid through a linguistic test so they would not randomly kill the Arabs by mistaken them of being Ethiopians..

to this day the population of Zabid and its surrounding are generally black due to the excessive intermarriage and mixing between people of the two coasts. So it is pretty logical to mention the Najahid and the slaves orgin in the demographic section not the history. I do not understand why you removed that they were rulers of Zabid, Tihama is a geographical term and the Najahid controlled no more than that port city. I have no problem with mentioning they were "Jazali" really if it's that important to you, you are right terms like "african slaves" are too broad but "Ethiopian slaves" is not really that broad as you may think because the term "Jazali" is just not that known to many people outside Ethiopia. but if you see that it is important to mention they were "Jazali", i have no problem with that and i should not make a big deal out of it. Just stick to the historical narrative. they did not rule Tihama and they were owned by their Ziyadid masters. You removed the sentence mentioning their role as rulers in the name of the Ziyadids at first. --يوسف حسين (talk) 17:45, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

• Another thing, aren't your edits considered a revert too? your edits are basically a revert of mine since i was first to expand that article..--يوسف حسين (talk) 17:51, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

My edit already had support. On the other hand, one of the conditions for your unblocking was to not revert and instead seek consensus for the first time. Middayexpress (talk) 18:50, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

• Congratulation on that "support" but i was blocked for edit warring. My question was why your version is out there when it's actually you who reverted the "original" version?

Regarding the issue of complexion, the author is mistaken because dark skin has been a native feature of many populations in Yemen (e.g. the Mahra). It doesn't require foreign admixture to explain its presence. Other authors also interpret it differently (e.g. "The culture and pigmentation of the people of the Tihama is testimony to the closeness of Ethiopia and Yemen both geographically and historically Their closeness is also expressed in national myth and lore: both claim to be home to the biblial Queen of Sheba" ). I think therefore either we mention both interpretations, or drop the issue of complexion altogether. For its part, the Najahid dynasty was composed of former slaves from the Jazali group of Ethiopia. It ruled on its own behalf, not in the name of the Ziyadids. The Najahids also did apparently control a good portion of the Tihama region as a whole: "Following the end of the Ziyadid dynasty in the early 11th century, two former slaves of the kingdom founded the Najahid dynasty. Control of the Tihama swayed back and forth between the Najahid rulers and the Sulayhid power of the highlands. In the mid 12th century, Ali bin Mahdi finally brought about the end of the Najahid dynasty" . Middayexpress (talk) 18:42, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

• you see? that is exactly my problem with you. I try to reach a common ground and close the case and you jump on and start talking about another topic, " the author is mistaken because dark skin has been a native feature of many populations in Yemen". Well, that problem is not really a concern of mine now since i am talking about a specific issue which is slavery from the east African coast facing the Yemen. I do not know what to do with a Picture of a Mahra guy with dark skin. You disregard everything just like that and say it does not require foreign admixture, so the sources i provided above are lying? is that what you are suggesting? Should i go and cherry-pick pictures to prove a point or go discussing a completely different Ethnic group now? You of all people should know how many Mahri and Hadrami trader settled in Somalia and east Africa . I do not want to discuss that history in this section at least. Unless you want to open a new discussion which i will happily join, but please stick to the topic which is the Najahid and their relations to Zabid and East Africa. Sinan of Bakil << this is a picture of the chief Bakil tribal confederation. Bakil my friend is mentioned in Sabaean inscriptions so they are the natives of Yemen. If you want to discuss your preconceived notion that you are so preoccupied to prove which is "being black is a native feature in Yemen" , you should start a new discussion because i will not engage in a debate on multiple subjects at the same time.

Regarding the similarities between Yemen and Ethiopia, it's true there are many similarities in geography and ethnicity as well especially among the Amhara and tigray ethnic groups of northern Ethiopia (to a certain extent of course they are Africans in the end of the day). Ethiopia is the only country that still uses a writing system developed from Ancient South Arabian script. They have hooked noses and relatively lighter skin than let's say Somalis :). I did not deny that Ethiopians claim the legendary queen to be their own, to study and understand civilizations like the Sabaeans one must forget modern political boundaries because the Sabaeans did not really refer to themselves as Arabs,Yemeni,South Arabian, African or Ethiopian. they were a "Semitic" tribe who believed themselves to be children of an imaginary being called El-Maqah. However, modern studies support the view that the Semitic influence on Northern modern day Ethiopia came from what is today Yemen, and the fact that Marib was the Sabaeans headquarter from which they controlled the trade routes. Again, keep the discussion about the topic which is the Najahid, i posted another section regarding Sheba and user:asidsnow edits just above you. And NO i will not drop the issue of complexion ..

Lastly, Tihama is a vast geographical region in the Arabian Peninsula. There is no way that Najahid or anyone else for that matter controlled that entire coastal strip except for the Ottomans maybe but it was part of different Sanjaks, as Tihama is divided between the Yemen and Hejaz. Zabid is located in Tihama of Yemen ( Tihamat al-Yaman ) and the city of mecca for example is part of Tihama of Hejaz (Tihamat al-Hejaz ). the Najahid controlled the city of Zabid from 989 to 1022 in the name of their Ziyadid masters until receiving recognition from the Abassid in Baghdad in 1022. Again they never controlled Tihama in its entirety from Aden to Aqaba in North Arabia! they ruled Zabid and some of them built small towns around that port. the travel giuide is not wrong but it's not specific either because Tihama is a large geographical region, it is not identified as a political entity. regarding the Tihama population (low land as opposed to the Yemeni highlands) this sources say : :

The Tihama has historical connection with the east african coast and its history

Large numbers of Ethiopian slaves were exported through dahlak to yemen, which explain the generally dark (not "darker") complexion of the Tihama population

Slavery and long-term migration have resulted in mixing with the peoples of East Africa, particularly in the Tihama region on the Red Sea coast

i could go on and on so please do not disregard historical facts and studies just because your honorable self think they are wrong. You have a preconceived notion that you want to prove, I will not drop the issue of complexion just to satisfy that notion . Dark to "darker" and Africa to the horn of Africa.. disregarding everything in the sources to prove your own preconceived notion "dark skin has been a native feature of many populations in Yemen" .. well, i'm sorry but it's not and it's not something to drop and allow you to emphasize in the Yemen article. --يوسف حسين (talk) 23:13, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

First, WP:TALK instructs to keep talk page posts short and concise. You're thus just wasting your own time and everyone else's here by posting mountains of text. Second, I never stated that "being black is a native feature in Yemen." That is a strawman. What I did actually write was that "the author is mistaken because dark skin has been a native feature of many populations in Yemen." And I supported that too with a quote noting that "the culture and pigmentation of the people of the Tihama is testimony to the closeness of Ethiopia and Yemen both geographically and historically" . The author in that passage is not talking about light skin uniting Ethiopians and Yemenis, as you somehow concluded. He is obviously talking about dark skin since he specifically mentions the pigmentation of the people of Tihama. In other words, this is an alternate explanation for why many Yemenis in general and the Tihama in particular are dark i.e. it's an autochthonous feature of theirs in common with the peoples of the Ethiopian highlands. Since you have declined the proposal to drop the issue of complexion, then surely you do not object if this alternate explanation is also noted. Just so you know, Yemeni populations in the eastern part of the country were also shown to have closer genetic ties with populations in the Horn than do those in the west . Lastly, that the Najahids and Sulayids at various times controlled the Tihama region is indeed often asserted. Some more examples:

• "Control of the Tihamah passed regularly between the Sulayhids and al-Ahwal for some time, the Sulayhids taxing the Tihamah in the cool winter, the Najahids in the summer."
• "Tihamah swung to and fro under the control of the Najahids and Sulayhids until Sa'id's death in 481/ 1088. His brother, Jayyash, ruled over Zabid from 482 — 98/1089—1104, during which time he built the town of Hays, purposedly bringing in relatives from Abyssinia to populate the new town. After his death, Najahid power was exercised by a series of slave ministers."

One other thing, kindly refer to me by my actual username, Middayexpress (not "Midwayexpress", which I've had to correct several times now). Calling other editors out of name is disrespectful and a breach of WP:CIV. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, though, and assume that those were typos. Middayexpress (talk) 16:24, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

• Yeah as expected this is going nowhere, multiple topics and circling around the the main issue. Please stop referring me to wikipedia policy pages, it is just an attempt to show off, if you think "mountain of texts" are a wast of time than stop arguing about whatever that is you are arguing about. Regarding the Tihami population, read the massage i left above. Because it did not contradict Robert Burrowes quote at all. You either did not read what i wrote or deliberately trying to extend this conversation as long as you can. You did not say "being black is a native feature in Yemen", you said : "..dark skin has been a native feature of many populations in Yemen".. ok! i don't know what to do with that. it's like saying :" i did not say the light is shiny, i said it's bright"!

You referred me to WP:TALK and it states "Avoid repeating your own lengthy posts", i quoted three sources regarding the Tihama population and they agree with the what Robert Burrowes wrote. In the end, the "dark complexion" (being black basically) is a foreign factor after all which was my point from the beginning. Just take some time and read my previous post again please. Robert Burrowes is talking about Tihama population yet you interpreted as "this is an alternate explanation for why many Yemenis in general and the Tihama in particular are dark" and again, you on your own concluded that it is "autochthonous feature". Where did Burrowes said that it was an "autochthonous feature"? He is clearly talking about Ethiopian (foreign body to Yemen) influence on Tihama population. Your interpretation cannot be accepted simply because it is not based upon a source. You took a sentence and interpreted on your own because Burrowes did not mention anything about being "autochthonous feautue common with the peoples of the Ethiopian highlands", he said :Ethiopia is Yemen's nearest sizable non Arab neighbor and one that had an important impact on Yemen over the ages and he went on and said how the skin color of Tihama population is a testimony to that. So it is a foreign impact just like i said before and i provided three quotes above that you completely disregarded and interpreted Burrowes's sentence in a really awkward way. Just read the three quotes i posted above about Tihama, do they really contradict Burrowes? or you just want to keep talking?

So i guess i am done here unless you have a source that says "being dark (black) is an autochthonous feature in common with Ethiopia", do not try too hard to prove your preconceived notion. Regarding the Genetics of Maharis and Hadramis, this is really off topic man and that link of yours proves nothing but i listed a link to a book above you apparently did not bother to check.

As for The Najahid and the extent of their rule, You do not understand my friend. They did not rule Tihama period! nobody did. Do you understand what i mean by Tihama? The Najahid did not rule an area from Aden to Aqaba! Zabid is/was the most important city in Tihamat al-yaman (Tihama of the Yemen meaning Hot lowland of the Yemen) so if some historians say the Najahid controlled Tihama, they do not necessarily mean that the Najahid ruled that entire coastal strip. Tihama in Arabic can be pluralized to "Taha'im" (Tihamas/lowlands), as tihama is not a name of a country or a specific land it is just geographical description to the western coastal strip of Arabia. Tihamat al Yaman (Yemeni Tihama) starts from Hali to Aden which was the Ziyadid Dynasty realm, so it is safe to call the Ziyadid rulers of "Tihamat al -Yaman". The Najahid on other hand did not control that entire area but they saved their masters capital (Zabid) from total collapse in 989. Al-Hussein bin Salama was a black eunuch who ruled in the name of his Ziyadid masters until his death in 1022. Najah, the founder of the dynasty, was a slave as well. He succeeded al-Hussain ibn Salama and received recognition from the Abbasid Caliphate in Baghdad. This narrative which you removed should be mentioned in the article. Your own source itself says :Jayyash, ruled over Zabid, if he ruled anything other than that they would have mentioned it. --يوسف حسين (talk) 18:00, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

U did realize you deleted my comment?--Inayity (talk) 18:48, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

i received a message about edit conflict. I did not mean to delete your comment you can post it again "Inayity" but if it's not related to the discussion, please refrain :)--يوسف حسين (talk) 18:58, 7 February 2014 (UTC)

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