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| :: No surprise that the maps don’t match. The source is Armenian and not neutral. I think both maps present wishful thinking. In fact, Armenia never had a control over predominantly Muslim Nakhichevan region, the Azeri population of which proclaimed Araks republic and refused to subordinate to Armenia. Eventually after long fights between Azeri and Armenian forces Turkish army established control over the region and left it to Bolsheviks. But the map does not reflect that. As for the map of Azerbaijan DR, it is an official map of 1920, presented to Paris peace conference by the Azeri government. It might be accurate or inaccurate, but it is a historical document. I think I will just explain what it is in the writing under the map and leave it at that. ] 05:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC) | :: No surprise that the maps don’t match. The source is Armenian and not neutral. I think both maps present wishful thinking. In fact, Armenia never had a control over predominantly Muslim Nakhichevan region, the Azeri population of which proclaimed Araks republic and refused to subordinate to Armenia. Eventually after long fights between Azeri and Armenian forces Turkish army established control over the region and left it to Bolsheviks. But the map does not reflect that. As for the map of Azerbaijan DR, it is an official map of 1920, presented to Paris peace conference by the Azeri government. It might be accurate or inaccurate, but it is a historical document. I think I will just explain what it is in the writing under the map and leave it at that. ] 05:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC) | ||
| :::Indeed, in fact, all those unofficial maps are in complete contradiction with the "Wilson's map", referring to the President Wilson and Treaty of Sevres, which didn't envisage any Azerbaijani lands as part of new Armenian Republic except Naxcivan. That is most of Zangezur, Geycha, and certanly all of Karabakh were recognized by US as legitimate parts of Azerbaijan. Thus, there is not a single consistent map of the first Armenian Republic. In fact there is an interesting telegram of the PM of ADR where he instructs his minister that ADR ceeded Irevan (Yerevan) to Armenia, on May 29, 1918. --] 08:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC) | |||
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Armenian Genocide
The Armenian Genocide, according to the strictest timeline, immediately preceded the First Republic of Armenia. Arguably, the events overlapped. While this is clearly not the place to have that debate between academic POVs, the relevance of the Armenian Genocide -- at the very least as background information for this article in the See Also section -- is certain.
To claim otherwise is like saying that the Boston Massacre is irrelevant to the American Revolution, or that . -- James
- If it is relevant, please demonstrate the relevance the article, just like it is done with American Revolution. Are you saying that Armenian republic was created because of genocide? mikka (t) 18:00, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
- No, the First Armenian Republic was not brought about solely because of the Armenian Genocide. But, the preceding Genocide did offer great impetus to the Western Powers to secure Armenian self-determination. The Genocide also severely weakened the population of Armenia, setting up the fledgling state, which immediately followed the Genocide, for collapse and partition.
- The article is obviously incomplete, a work in progress. Certainly, the crucial relevance of the Armenian Genocide should go in the article as well, in good time. But, you will kindly note, the American Revolution article also links to the Boston Massacre. -- James
- Will you kindly note that Boston Massacre is explained in the text as a cricial event sparkling revolution. I don't see how the massacre, however important it in the history, is of immediate cause of First Republic. (I admit I am pretty ignorant in the issue; but then, write a proof) And to write 1-2 justifying sentence is not a big deal to wait some "good time", especially if you see disagreement. So far you did not update a singe article in this respect, so it looks like pushing a political agenda. And anticipating your rebuttal, please keep in mind that when first coming to an article, it your job to justify your changes when questioned. I don't doubt that the Armenian Genocide has a great impact even today thru lots of connections, but surely you cannot link the birthday of Jesus Christ into every article however great (enormous!) impact this event had on Western civilization. Reasonably immediate relevance, please. mikka (t) 09:34, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
- While in the context of what is written in this article, adding a link to the Armenian genocide is not the best solution, the Armenian genocide is a central point in the creation of the first republic. The Paris Peace conference, the King Crane reports, and dispatchs during or after the war of the necessities of creating an Armenian state were nearly all justified by how Armenians after what happened to them should have their state. Also, the first republic recieved about 175 thousands Ottoman Armenian survivers. This article should be clearly expended, but I doubt the individual that is adding back the Armenian link is able to do so, had he been, he would have added materials before adding the Armenian genocide link, which he hasn't done so. Fad (ix) 20:11, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
- Will you kindly note that Boston Massacre is explained in the text as a cricial event sparkling revolution. I don't see how the massacre, however important it in the history, is of immediate cause of First Republic. (I admit I am pretty ignorant in the issue; but then, write a proof) And to write 1-2 justifying sentence is not a big deal to wait some "good time", especially if you see disagreement. So far you did not update a singe article in this respect, so it looks like pushing a political agenda. And anticipating your rebuttal, please keep in mind that when first coming to an article, it your job to justify your changes when questioned. I don't doubt that the Armenian Genocide has a great impact even today thru lots of connections, but surely you cannot link the birthday of Jesus Christ into every article however great (enormous!) impact this event had on Western civilization. Reasonably immediate relevance, please. mikka (t) 09:34, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
Armenian Republic?
In German and Russian the first republic is known as “Armenian Republic” and the current as “Republic of Armenia”. Is this correct in English as well? Does anybody know the official name of the first one? Were the flag and the coat of arms exactly the same? Ulf-S. 13:54, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Map
Could anyone please explain the source of the map currently included in the article? Thanks in advance. Grandmaster 19:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- http://www.armenica.org/history/maps/229etranscaucasus1918-20.jpg and http://www.armenica.org/history/maps/229repofarm1918-1920.jpg and http://www.armenica.org/history/maps/229wtranscaucasus1918-20.jpg
- See here for references. -- Clevelander 20:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
- No surprise that the maps don’t match. The source is Armenian and not neutral. I think both maps present wishful thinking. In fact, Armenia never had a control over predominantly Muslim Nakhichevan region, the Azeri population of which proclaimed Araks republic and refused to subordinate to Armenia. Eventually after long fights between Azeri and Armenian forces Turkish army established control over the region and left it to Bolsheviks. But the map does not reflect that. As for the map of Azerbaijan DR, it is an official map of 1920, presented to Paris peace conference by the Azeri government. It might be accurate or inaccurate, but it is a historical document. I think I will just explain what it is in the writing under the map and leave it at that. Grandmaster 05:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- Indeed, in fact, all those unofficial maps are in complete contradiction with the "Wilson's map", referring to the President Wilson and Treaty of Sevres, which didn't envisage any Azerbaijani lands as part of new Armenian Republic except Naxcivan. That is most of Zangezur, Geycha, and certanly all of Karabakh were recognized by US as legitimate parts of Azerbaijan. Thus, there is not a single consistent map of the first Armenian Republic. In fact there is an interesting telegram of the PM of ADR where he instructs his minister that ADR ceeded Irevan (Yerevan) to Armenia, on May 29, 1918. --AdilBaguirov 08:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)