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ANI-notice

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

Incorporation of Sanskritized people into the varna-system

Hi Sitush. In case you've got access to academic journals: Nath, Vijay (2001), "From 'Brahmanism' to 'Hinduism': Negotiating the Myth of the Great Tradition", Social Scientist 2001, pp. 19-50. Nath describes the spread of the Brahmanical system and the incorporation of new groups of people into the Brahmanical system by "appointing" them as Brahmins, often of a lower status than the "original" Brahmins. Another interesting title is Samuel, Geoffrey (2010), The Origins of Yoga and Tantra. Indic Religions to the Thirteenth Century, Cambridge University Press, on the creation of this Brahmanical system during the later Vedic period in northern India. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 22:15, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I've got JSTOR access & so can see your first link Right now I'm re-reading Basham's The Origins of Classical Hinduism & have a couple of other books lined up. I've got quite a few books specifically covering history and society in Bengal but I don't think they include Samuel. - Sitush (talk) 23:19, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

It's a relief to know that some people around here are reading descent books. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:59, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Curious about you

Hi Sitush,

I have many of your edits, specially in articles relating to different communities in India. I am curious - Are you a researcher in the field?

I think you grew up in England. I was wondering about your interest in the Indian castes. Do you have roots in South Asia, for example perhaps in a region like Mirpur? Thanks.

Malaiya (talk) 07:12, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Born in England, degrees in history. Never been to India, never studied the subject in an academic setting. I found out last year that my great- or great-great grandmother was born in Bangalore to English parents; she was back in England by the time she married. - Sitush (talk) 23:15, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		For your excellent work in reigning in caste glorifiers! Many of the sub-continental articles are beyond poor, but when I see a coherent page there's a good chance I will find your fingerprints in the edit history.94.194.24.46 (talk) 04:20, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

IAC mediation

Hi Sitush, good to see you back. Would you be able to respond to comments by IAC on the mediation page. An opening statement would be the appropriate way to do that. Thanks. Sunray (talk) 18:37, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

@Sunray: Thanks. I'll try to come up with something short and sweet. I could do it in one word, beginning with the letter "b", but this is mediation & so I'll desist ;) - Sitush (talk) 18:42, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Your participation is appreciated, as is your restraint. Sunray (talk) 01:58, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Raducanu

Well, I'm quite sure that while he was in Romania, the diacritic was in use, because that is in fact how one spells the name Răducanu; there is no "Raducanu" name in Romanian. (Perhaps you could ask him if you truly wish to make sure?) How that should be approached is another matter. What I did seems quiet and unobtrusive, but I suppose Roman Polanski, Zbigniew Brzezinski and Novak Djokovic (who all were born with diacritics in their names) might offer different guidance in this regard. - Biruitorul 15:08, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

I've got a conflict of interest, so I have to be careful. I queried at User talk:Drmies because he gets a lot of knowledgeable stalkers. I'm pretty sure that you are misguided here and, certainly, Raducanu does not use the diacritic himself & nor do the sources - I thought I'd told you this? - Sitush (talk) 15:16, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

Tulsipur dynasty

This is regarding House of Tulsipur or Tulsipur Dynasty. Mukharjee's book says Man Singh was from Shahganj and NOT from Tulsipur. Also, Raikar clan is not true...Tulsipur Rulers were clearly Chauhans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.185.246.131 (talk) 02:44, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Ok, thanks, I'll check the source. It's not often that I read sources incorrectly but I'm human, after all. - Sitush (talk) 08:25, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

February 2014

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to All India United Democratic Front may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "()"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• Democratic Front''' also known as '''AIUDF''' and ''Sarba Bharatiya Sanyukta Ganatantric Marcha'') is a state political party oroginating from the Indian state of ], ]. It was

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 04:28, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to A. P. J. Abdul Kalam may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 ""s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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• won the presidential election in a highly one-sided contest. He became the 11th president of the [epublic of India.<ref>{{cite news|title=Kalam is 11th President in 12th term |url=http://articles.

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 12:46, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Sitush, Thanks. Plz dont take it too personal Sir, as you know arguments and disagreements are common here. Thanks again for your due diligence. -- Bharathiya (talk) 11:54, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

No problem. More to do there, I think. - Sitush (talk) 13:08, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Namasudra

That was copyvio. Dougweller (talk) 12:08, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

It was? I could only see it in connection with an Orkut group, which amounts to fantasy! - Sitush (talk) 13:07, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

FYI

See It is obvious that the user is committing sock puppetry and edit warring, it is a WP:SPA, He makes accounts like , , Misrepresents information, while keeps on edit warring.. He won't ever discuss in talk. I am not getting why you removed the information from reliable sources and publishers that I had added on lead. While adding back his misrepresentation of information, and huge mess. Check the edit yourself. OccultZone (Talk) 17:19, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Just see what happens. You are aware that I left a note on their talk page (and on yours, although we may have crossed). Give it a few hours because it looks from the Sati talk page that you've had to apologise for accusing people of socking before. If you have reasonable evidence that the person is socking then take it to WP:SPI. Let the article simmer rather than get involved in yet another bout of edit warring. Meanwhile, I'll do some reading ;) - Sitush (talk) 17:26, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

It is true. But I learned that SPI cannot be opened if its single page. I saw my talk page, maybe you have misunderstanding. Can you refer me to the article? Maybe you are confusing with another editor, Arildnordby. Just saying that SPA like this editor -- are not new, they are persistent these days. Check Cullen_(surname), Talk:Superpower, etc, for similar and recent incidences. OccultZone (Talk) 17:34, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Can you show me a diff for the "SPI cannot be opened" bit? I've managed it in the past. But, yes, I have confused you with Arildnordby - sorry about that. I've opened a thread on the talk page and I'll dig into those sources pronto. - Sitush (talk) 17:42, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

See decline reason. OccultZone (Talk) 18:00, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Hm, in that instance, the evidence was thin not merely because of the single edit. Especially since I notice that Itsmejudith (talk · contribs) had a thing or two to say about what you had been doing on that article at the time - she's usually very good at source-related stuff & two random people reverting poor edits is not worthy of a checkuser.

What you shouldn't do is accuse someone of sockpuppeting if you don't really have the evidence, and that applies as much to talk page as at SPI itself. Of course, repeated, frequent disruption by newly-registered accounts, IPs etc can be countered by other means, eg: via WP:RFPP.

In any event, Canto55 is now talking at the article page and raises some perfectly valid points, so I think a bit of AGF is in order.I'm not saying that your contribution was wrong but a bit of WP:BRD never did anyone any harm, especially on articles that have been contentious. Just chill and have a cup of tea, a bottle of Scotch or whatever. I know that chilling is easier to say than do, but maybe try it? - Sitush (talk) 18:15, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes, we can wait, whatever will be the outcome of this process, it will make it easier. OccultZone (Talk) 18:24, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Hinduism in Pakistan

Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Hinduism in Pakistan. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. Well, only if you are interested in it, of course. Hafspajen (talk) 00:10, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

A flower

The player: I know that it isn't "yours", that's why I used quotation marks. Thanks for new words "obliquely" and "gnat"! You can pick a flower on top of my talk ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:22, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

No probs. I forget sometimes that English is not your first language, which is a compliment. "Attention span of a gnat" is quite a common saying over here; I think some people substitute "goldfish". - Sitush (talk) 15:20, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment! I wrote yesterday about an author signing his book in one session in 53 languages, a record. Accessibility to readers of other languages - because for many topics the English article is the only one - is one of my goals, - that is no matter of attention span. Did you know that I received an opera house last year? This is the related article, most of it understandable in 53 languages, I would say, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:42, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Kukis

Hi, Sitush! I feel like I've just stepped in a major mud-puddle, was wondering if you and/or DougWeller could help me see the size of it. I see that you removed a big chunk of apparently copyvio stuff (thank you!) from The Kukis of Northeast India: Politics and Culture in November, and that at Kuki State Demand Committee you left the comment "like practically every other article created by the contributor ... full of copyvio". So I wondered how many of those you'd actually run into? Regards, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:42, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Jainde

I've stubbed this caste article. Any recommendations on what to do with it? --NeilN 20:40, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Cristian Raducanu

On 16 February 2014, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Cristian Raducanu, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that Cristian Raducanu, a rugby union player who represented Romania until age 22, was described by Bill McLaren as a "world-class lineout exponent"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Cristian Raducanu. You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and it will be added to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 16:03, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

Kachwaha

Hi Sitush! I have a message for you at Talk:Kachwaha. Waiting for your response. -Owsert (talk) 14:34, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Kumar

Hi Sitush! As you are my main go-to person on India-related topics, I'm wondering if the Kumar article telling the whole story? A coworker from India once told me something to the effect that Kumar is never a real last name, but rather (as the article mentions) more of a title or middle name. Is that simply a regional prejudice? I'm surprised that the Kumar article doesn't go into greater detail into what is a commonly heard name/title. OhNoitsJamie 16:25, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure but my bet is that it is complex! Patel, which is another common name, is used both to reference a caste group (see Patidar) and as a generic last name that has titular overtones relating to landholding. India is a big place, has 20-odd official languages and numerous different traditions. Not to mention a phenomenal (to western eyes) degree of antagonism and vanity. Thus, for example, in south India, caste-designating last names are used relatively infrequently even though (allegedly) an awful lot of people possess one - they don't publicise the thing because of historic prejudices. At or near the opposite extreme, are the Sikhs, who are not a caste, are predominantly in northern areas and for whom Singh is a badge of honour.

We have a surname project somewhere and of course there is WT:INB. I'd be inclined to query both or to raise the issue at Talk:Kumar and stick a notice on both project boards that refers to the discussion. It's not something I'm likely to get very involved in because, tbh, when ever I've looked at articles about names I've always tended to come away with the impression that the sourcing really isn't up to much at all. - Sitush (talk) 17:04, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I've noticed that general sourcing problem as well when it comes to articles about India, as well as the complexity issue. OhNoitsJamie 17:51, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Note

I appreciate your recognition that Carol is the most disruptive active editor on the LvMI pages. I know you've criticized my conduct on the past. I want to tell you that I'm willing to accept a topic ban if we kick out Carol and the other tedentious editors. I agree that my controversial status undermines the ability of other editors to get things done in a dispassionate way. I also recognize that I've gone too far at times on the Mises pages, both in terms of edits and conduct toward other users. But the root cause of this is the tendentious attempt by Carol and others to promote a false image of Misesians on WP: as respected, mainstream contributors and even leaders in the field of economics. Steeletrap (talk) 20:28, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Changes reverted

I see few contibutuons made by me on Pratibha Patil are undone. Couldnot understand more from the edit summary which says "trivial, as the secretariat response implies". Correct me if am wrong on why they were undone . (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:10, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

You are referring to this removal. As previously discussed by others on the article talk page, Presidents visit places. That's what they do, and especially so when they are basically figureheads rather than executive officers, as is the case in India. There is a lot of muckraking in Indian politics but Misplaced Pages is not the place to continue it. - Sitush (talk) 11:17, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Pick one

Heer clan and Hayer. Why?--Bbb23 (talk) 01:57, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

@Bbb23:, Resolved by redirecting to Heer clan. The only sources were unreliable and using a completely unscientific GSearch, "Heer punjab" gets over 10 times more hits than "Hayer punjab". Most of the hits relate to the things as surnames rather than as a gotra. I'll try to find some decent sources but almost certainly this is going to end up being PRODed as yet another non-notable family name. - Sitush (talk) 11:12, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Maybe I'd understand if I took the time, but I trust your judgment, so will spend my time otherwise. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:01, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Ah, the mysteries of the Orient (almost!). - Sitush (talk) 01:09, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Behlot - Gurjar tribe

Hi Sitush. Can you please take a look at Behlot article. -- SMS 20:54, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Will do but probably not for another 24 hours. That Behlot/Pehlot name was added as a redlink to List of Gurjar clans or some such recently. I reverted then per WP:V and WP:NLIST but I'll take another look at it. - Sitush (talk) 00:20, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Re: This draft needs Review

• Actually I fixed that first and then saw the INB post. My signature is so complicated, I have to use 1= always. Tito☸Dutta 00:13, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I actually thought it was your sig that was throwing my comment out but the problem still arose when I temporarily voided your comment. I had tried the "1=" even though the documentation makes no mention of it - it didn't work for me, even when I tried putting my comment above yours. All very odd but as long as it shows up now, that's all that matters. Thanks for fixing! - Sitush (talk) 00:18, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

‎Rajpurohit

You're welcome. Perhaps you saw that the sockmaster's block has been extended to indefinite. Nyttend (talk) 01:06, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

hound

I'm not going to derail that AfD but following up here. I consider your continued bringing up past AfDs as hounding. Sure I have been wrong (or on the wrong side of an AfD). So have you. Many times. We all have. It just means we have differences of opinion. That's all notability is, opinion, there is no absolute right and wrong. Your bringing up old AfDs continually as a strategy to try and discredit me is out of line. I have been on the right side and "won" AfDs as well, this is easily seen in the AfD stats. If it continues, and I'll let it continue to build up the record further, I will eventually take action. I have a thick skin but will only let it go so far. Can't say when that will be. I can't stop you from participating in AfDs I already posted in but I can stop you from this line of attack. Oh and "serious charge" is in the context of our notability rules obviously, the topic of this AfD discussion, not the real world legal system - telling me to "sue you", an anonymous person in unknown country, is ridiculous and cliche not to mention bad faith. Regards, -- GreenC 07:12, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

@Green Cardamom:, you've accused people of hounding of hounding and have supported others among the downtrodden who had claimed to have been hounded. You were shown to be ridiculous then and you are now. But all I see in you when you do those things is a clue-less wikilawyer. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. - Sitush (talk) 07:16, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Your response to my request to stop that behavior was not to say, ok, sure I'll stop that behavior if it bothers you. Lets diffuse this situation. Rather it was a string of personal attacks and a rude statement akin to a fuck you. How old are you if I can ask? -- GreenC 07:46, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

You don't like what I say, then don't make stupid allegations. Our paths barely ever cross AFAIK so how the hell I can be hounding you is beyond me. I'm presuming that you must be somewhat younger than my 51 years; if not, then you definitely need to grow up. - Sitush (talk) 07:51, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

And why did you do this in response to my explanation for commenting out here? You were bold in inserting that break but it guided the unwitting past a whole chuck of relevant source anaylsis from several people, so I commented out. I don't mind you fixing the commenting markup but replacing with a {{anchor}} that effectively reinstates your poor decision is, well, bloody annoying. It seems that you'll go to any length to persuade people of your take. - Sitush (talk) 08:00, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

AfC draft

Hello there, thank you for showing interest to review this draft. I agree to what you commented at the top of the draft. To improve the draft, I have added more references, and this time I have introduced sources from books of a reputed local library in Kolkata. By the way you had caught a good point about Early Nationalists and early nationalist; Moderates and moderates. Actually it is a problem that has its roots deep into Our Indian history. During the time of our Independence the Indian historians described the first leaders as the "Moderates" for example an Indian author V. D. Mahajan described them as Moderates. But some of the prominent British individuals denoted them as moderates. example-Stanley A. Wolpert. Even now in a column of The Daily Telegraph on 23rd september author-Debasis Majumdar described them "Moderates". So I think we should create redirects after it was reviewed and moved to mainspace.

Have a look on the draft now, I have made some changes, please fix the possible problems you have mentioned in the comment followed by a review. Thank you in advance. Jim Cartar (talk) 11:31, 21 February 2014 (UTC).

Will do but I'm getting behind on my promises, so it may be a few days before I get round to it. - Sitush (talk) 11:23, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

No problem, take your time. But please don't forget about it. Jim Cartar (talk) 21:18, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

SPI

See Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Garminder13. I'm also minded to take Devgan (Clan) to AfD - or do you think this deserves an article? Dougweller (talk) 10:41, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I spent most of the day up a 70-foot tree with a chainsaw & didn't have time to drag a sock's name from the depths of my dodgy memory. I've CSD G5'd the Devgan article - at best, it is just another non-notable clan. - Sitush (talk) 11:22, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Cristian Raducanu

Hello! Do you think it makes any logical sense to exclude that player from the Romanian rugby union players category, since almost all of them are also in the Romania international rugby union players category? It really seems repetitive but before they were international players they are Romanian players. This is whats been done in all rugby union players categories in Misplaced Pages, to include the players in both categories when they exist. In some cases there isnt a category for international players. See for yourself: ]. Maybe both categories could be merged into one, because according with Misplaced Pages on overcategorization: "Mostly overlapping categories/If two or more categories have a large overlap (e.g. because many athletes participate in multiple all-star games, and religious leadership does not radically change from year to year), it is generally better to merge the subjects to a single category, and create lists to detail the multiple instances." Mistico (talk) 03:40, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) WP:Overcategorisation. That people are ignoring the guideline elsewhere is not a reason to ignore it here. You could always try to change the guideline but the only common-sense reason that I can see for ignoring it in this sphere would be if a player was of nationality A but played for nation B (eg: a Romanian player who represents France) as does sometimes happen due to the rules regarding parentage etc. Maybe one day I'll get round to fixing the other articles, now that you've highlighted the problem. - Sitush (talk) 03:50, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

If you want to propose a merge of the categories then WP:CFD is the place to go. - Sitush (talk) 03:51, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Paramara

Hi there, Just wanted to let you know I started a bit of a discussion over at Talk: Paramara. If you have a moment, I'd be interested to hear your opinion about how the article should be and the best way to get there. I am wondering if some aspects of a non finished article (with respect to its references, for example) might be a reasonable short term compromise, in order to make life easier for a copy editor who is trying to improve the article. Perhaps there is a simple mechanism for doing this at Wikipaedia that I am missing? I know people keep adding what seems like junk but I think they are trying to do so in good faith. Rest assured I won't start an edit war and I'll try to improve the references for any new paragraphs or sections. Cheers, and thanks for keeping an interest in the article, Myrtle G. Myrtlegroggins (talk) 05:27, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Sure, I'll respond there. - Sitush (talk) 05:29, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Vani

And could I know the reason according to whom the sources are not reliable?Nijgoykar (talk) 07:27, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

I've explained already at the article talk page. - Sitush (talk) 07:28, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Brahmin

Editing Kerala brahmin section regarding:

I am a native or Kerala and I am so sure about the subject. Presently, the caste system is not so strong in Kerala as it existed earlier. So almost all the references that you could obtain will be old. In fact, they are the true references as they were written in the time of Caste System. You may please make a study with available resources you have, before going for such deletions. Actually what happens by your deletion is that you are giving an incomplete or false information to the readers. -Prasanthnnamboothiri (talk) 14:11, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Anyway, I have added citation needed tags over that. Let us put it as a matter of discussion in the talk page. -Prasanthnnamboothiri (talk) 14:13, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on changes to the AfC mailing list

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Mediation

You had requested to be pinged if there were any developments in the mediation. I think we could resume now. Would you be able to take a look? Sunray (talk) 20:14, 23 February 2014 (UTC)