Misplaced Pages

This is the kind of account I wouldn't mind seeing separated from the project for a lengthy period of time. Bad edits despite months of pleas, poor and insufficient attempts at collaborative communication over the history of the account, continuation of the same kinds of bad edits despite a few Talk page comments. As a result the editor is eating up a lot of editing time and patience of others. I believe it's a well-meaning kid and not an intentionally malicious editor but the only thing that matters is the quality of edits and demonstrated capacity for improvement, and I'm not seeing enough of either. If it's a kid, he can come back later; if it's an editor who would be more comfortable editing in another language, then the editor should go edit that language's WP. Zad68 06:00, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

United Russia

It appears this article has been vandalized by user User:78.56.70.222, who has no other edits than to vandalize this page. I have not done many vandal reports, but I think the page should be protected, with what is going on in Russia/Ukraine right now (not that I support UR, but wiki is not the place to vandalize the pages of parties you don't like)--Bellerophon5685 (talk) 21:11, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, that was certainly vandalism. Thank you for reverting it, Bellerophon, and your request for protection makes sense. Even though the IP has only made one edit, I've given them a strongly worded warning on their talkpage, because of the nature of the vandalism, and semiprotected the article for a few days. For another time, it's generally best to request protection on WP:RFPP. I understand these boards are a labyrinth! Thank you very much for reporting. Bishonen | talk 21:48, 1 March 2014 (UTC).

Bishonen Hi, the user returned with some disruptive, POV wikilinking here. I referred them to AIV and they've been temp blocked for 36 hours. I've also asked that the Ukranian national anthem article (Shche ne vmerla Ukraina) be protected for 24-48 hours, although I dunno if that will fly since there have only been two recent disruptions. My thinking was, however, that the recent political situation in the Ukraine makes the article a high profile target. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:00, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, current events make that article too an obvious vandalism magnet. Semiprotected for four days. Bishonen | talk 22:23, 3 March 2014 (UTC).

Lord of Rivendell again.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

You guys didin't gave much attention last time() and let him go away with it, not he is vandalising my user page and writing disturbing things to his edit summary(), he did it because i reverted his edit on the template () by the way now he accuses my being an Islamist. Last time his accusation to me was being a Kurd as you recall. Will you take some steps now???

And yes he edits articles as he pleases, like a rogue. User:Liz, User:Chipmunkdavis, User:Underlying lk.KazekageTR (talk) 21:33, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm not involved in the current dispute, but this edit does look like trolling. Given that this happens mere days after his latest deluge of talk page insults, perhaps it's time for Rivendell to be rusticated for his bad behaviour.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 21:45, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

I too have not noticed the current dispute until now, but this needs to be stopped. It should have been stopped last time, and the attacks have now even moved on from political/racial ones to just baseless personal ones like "Are your parents also cousins?". CMD (talk) 22:00, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes yes you're totally right. How about that. That is a hell of an insult to me because I've reverted his edit() : "Are your parents also cousins?"

It's worth noting that Lord of Rivendell has got in trouble over editwarring in the Turkey article repeatedly. Simonm223 (talk) 22:14, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

User:Lord of Rivendell is a serial edit warrior. Only a few hours after the protection due to edit warring/content dispute was liftented, he started the war all over again:

7. ()

For "fun" he added a series of PAs in the summary of his edits that I, as West-European, already judges as insulting. By now, he was warned twice to stop edit warring. he has been blocked twice for edit warring in the last few months. This is not funny any more and highly disruptive. The Banner talk 22:48, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

And the next revert after being warned three times (including one in the summery). The Banner talk 23:48, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Independent of this discussion, RolandR filed a complaint at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring: . The Banner talk 01:42, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

He's now been blocked for two months for the edit warring. Hopefully he'll get the hint. --Ironholds (talk) 05:31, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

It's one month, not two, and after such egregious cases of trolling he should be blocked permanently, IMO.--eh bien mon prince (talk) 14:02, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) One month actually. But Canterbury Tail has warned him that the next block will be indefinite, which seems just right. Bishonen | talk 14:07, 2 March 2014 (UTC).

User:Tbhotch

This user keeps harassing me and threatening to block me and is coming across a bully can someone sort them out for sake of mind? 217.43.162.104 (talk) 21:53, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Note this user is THE GTA Guy (talk · contribs), aka AlisaJay (talk · contribs), aka MariaJaydHicky (talk · contribs), and evidence can be found at the respective sockpuppet investigation pages Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/MariaJaydHicky/Archive and Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/AlisaJay. © Tbhotch (en-2.5). 21:56, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Note that this user has a few screws loose if all they think they can do is accuse people without facts 217.43.162.104 (talk)

You want facts. One page: Loud (Rihanna album), a constant target of you. Including a reversion of a reversion of the user 86.142.54.16 (talk · contribs), who is blocked and also comes from the same state you are currently located. Your personal attacks and EMPHASIS matches with those of Maria and your IP matches with already confirmed socks of Maria. I don't need CU evidence to know you and Maria and GTA and Alisa are the same person. © Tbhotch (en-2.5). 22:05, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Well you're going 'round calling it a personal attack; ever heard the expression "The pot called the kettle black?" 217.43.162.104 (talk) 22:07, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

IP blocked for block evasion. Acroterion (talk) 22:12, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

So calling me "freak" and to ask some one to "fuck me off" are not personal attacks. Neither "dumbass", "you are pathetic", and multiple of your attacks are not personal. It has no sense to talk with you (edit conflict).

In a side note to other users, is it possible to get this guy/girl banned from this site now? Nothing has changed since the User:MariaJaydHicky era, and now this person has decided to play to be a victim of circumstances s/he provoked her/himself. © Tbhotch (en-2.5). 22:16, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

If no admin agrees to unblock, that's a de facto ban already. Epicgenius (talk) 15:37, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

• Well, people sometimes want it to be de jure. - Penwhale | 06:20, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Community Ban proposal for AlisaJay/MariaJaydHicky/etc

I propose the following:

For persistent sockpuppeteering and ban evasion, which has exhausted the patience and assumption of good faith by the community, MariaJaydHicky is banned from English Misplaced Pages by the community.

• Support as proposer. - Penwhale | 06:20, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

silly season in full force and vigour at Michael Grimm (politician)

Previous discussion here at

Edit:

IPs and "new editors" are in edit war mode to get the "extended cut" of the Grimm story into his BLP. The editors involved are unlikely to be "truly new" here, and the use of IPs for reverts stinks IMO. Will someone please tell them how the prior discussion here went? All they are saying is "notcensored" and similar stuff now. And the claim is now that it requires consensus to remove the contentious material. Please someone, anyone, help on this. They even push the anonymous claims again -- and I think a stand should be taken on this. Cheers. Collect (talk) 22:22, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

I took the unusual course of reverting out the BLP material which was previously discussed here, and full-protecting the article. I thought this was better than blocking people. I'll be happy to unprotect once the dispute is over. --John (talk) 22:51, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks -- though I think the miraculous IP edits are less than likely to not be socking :(. Collect (talk) 23:21, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

• The sanitization of this article and protection with tools is complete bullshit. The news event wasn't an "interview," it was a televised threat. BLP claims are bogus. Carrite (talk) 16:37, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I charge User:John with tool abuse. Carrite (talk) 16:39, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Video links for context, by the New York Times and Alternate Version to YouTube. Carrite (talk) 16:58, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

• • This is concurrently being discussed here, WP:BLPN and Talk:Michael Grimm (politician). If one of these conversations results in a resolution of the BLP dispute, feel free to ping me and I will unprotect, as I said above. Your melodramatic "charges", Carrite, will be treated, I'm afraid, with all the seriousness they deserve. --John (talk) 19:41, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

You'd better be afraid yourself if your actions are treated with the seriousness they deserve. Carrite (talk) 02:32, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

• A case where policy and common sense go hand in hand. The first says to edit BLPs conservatively and with very reliable sources, the second says to not pay undue attention to minor events and to limit first-hand accounts since, after all, we're writing an encyclopedia and not a tabloid. Activism is for your Twitter account. Drmies (talk) 04:57, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Bogus. "Very reliable sources?" How about: New York Times. Atlantic magazine. This is a politically-motivated whitewash. Carrite (talk) 03:02, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Constant arguing over parapsychology

Basically a new user PhiChiPsiOmega has joined Misplaced Pages a few days ago with plans to do "major" revisions on the parapsychology article, unfortunately this user has not read Misplaced Pages policy on pseudoscience or fringe theories. So he has ended up ranting on the talk page of the parapsychology article and using it as a forum ] and basically disagreeing with pretty much everything and anyone has said to him. He's now arguing with users here ]

PhiChiPsiOmega (talk · contribs)

69.14.156.143 (talk · contribs)

If you check his talk page he admits he disagrees with the scientific consensus about parapsychology and even wikipedia. He has left some aggressive comments a few times (both on his account and on his IP) on my talk-page, I am not too bothered about this but he's done the same thing on the parapsychology talk-page and elsewhere. I don't see anything positive about this user on Misplaced Pages. His existence here seems to just want to argue with people because his belief in psi is not supported on Misplaced Pages. I think he should be topic banned on the topic of parapsychology.

To make things worse, he's now hooked up with a fringe proponent Tom Butler (talk · contribs) (an anti-Misplaced Pages editor who talks about Misplaced Pages editors censoring his paranormal views) who has written "Ah, but that is my point: in Misplaced Pages, they are not real people, and not being subject to social norms, are technically immune to embarrassment. They do become aggressive when cornered, though, and band together to eliminate opposition whenever possible ... with great success." amongst other nonsense.

I can just see these two editors getting worse and worse and they are obviously not on Misplaced Pages to improve any articles or doing anything productive but just argue with editors so I think a lid needs to be put on it now before their trolling spreads to other places on wikipedia. Goblin Face (talk) 03:12, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Parapsychology is subject to discretionary sanctions per WP:ARBPS, so the correct venue for this would be WP:AE. I recommend withdrawing this complain and filing it there instead. Nformation 03:26, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I think PhiChiPsiOmega needs to learn about Misplaced Pages policy in general and WP:AGF, WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT and WP:NOTAFORUM in specific. However, as a slight mitigating factor, he is a very new user and I don't want to bite the newcomer. It's clear that he believes very passionately in his topic and there's nothing wrong with that, however the situation on the constellation of parapsychology and pseudoscience articles shouldn't be changed just to accommodate one passionate editor. I think the best thing to do would be to pair PhiChiPsiOmega with an editor who has absolutely no involvement with anything even remotely related to parapsychology as a mentor. Encourage him to learn the ropes of Misplaced Pages somewhere where he's less likely to enter into antagonistic situations with long-standing editors. After all, passion speaks to boldness and we want bold editors here. However we also want editors who are willing to seek consensus even when it might chafe their passions. Simonm223 (talk) 03:33, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. He's a new user (very new) and I think he is allowed some leeway to picking up an understanding of WP policies and guidelines. I know many editors who had a bumpy landing when they started editing WP and, unfortunately, PhiChiPsiOmega wandered into one of the most conflicted areas on Misplaced Pages. I think that editors who regularly police this area are on the lookout for potential "disruptors" and are overly vigilant. But Parapsychology is not the DMZ or the old Berlin Wall and any editing errors can be reversed. There is no call to block new editors who are not aware of ARBCOM sanctions and the history of these articles. Liz 05:17, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Liz but you have done comments like this which doesn't help. "Welcome to Misplaced Pages, User:PhiChiPsiOmega|PhiChiPsiOmega...where if you aren't sufficiently skeptical, you're considered "fringe" and a quack. Happy editing!" .

Two issues remain here. PhiChiPsiOmega existence on Misplaced Pages is to just stir up trouble over the parapsychology article (psi is even in his name). He's made it clear he is not convinced by the scientific references on the topic (the hundreds that are on the article), and he rejects the scientific consensus:

Here he even claims the arbitration committee is wrong:

Basically everyone is wrong apart from himself and he isn't going to stop arguing about the subject. I am bringing this to the Administrators' noticeboard now because if it doesn't stop now it's just going to go on and on. The second issue is that this user Tom Butler (talk · contribs) is a troll off and on Misplaced Pages. Off Misplaced Pages he's created countless blog and forum posts against Misplaced Pages like this, and even an entire website against Misplaced Pages policies :

And you only need to look at his Misplaced Pages user page and comments on Misplaced Pages to see he is only here to cause trouble. Here is encouraging a user to quit Misplaced Pages and "give up here" to join his own paranormal alternative On his very own user page it reads "Editors blocked for attempting fair treatment of Rupert Sheldrake The public will know these editors as maters of the search for fairness." and now he's encouraging the user PhiChi . I have no idea why this editor is still on Misplaced Pages considering all the damage he is trying to do to it on and off Misplaced Pages (he's even hosted online petitions against Misplaced Pages). The way for this issue to be solved is to ban these users because they are not here to edit Misplaced Pages, they are using the site to stir controversies over parapsychology and it is going to spread if they are not warned. That's all I am going to say on this. If action is not taken then in a few weeks time someone else will just be coming back here complaining about these users and it is going to get worse and worse. Goblin Face (talk) 06:21, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I'd rather go there than deal with the lack of objectivity and quote-mining I get here. Look, GF, I understand that psi is an uncomfortable topic for you, but he has good reason for posting those things: You are not looking at this from a neutral point of view. I disagree with the skeptics because they DON'T represent their opponents very well, and that their opponents represent a small niche in the scientific community. Appealing to the "hundreds of articles against" (while ignoring the hundred articles ' ' for ' ' ) psi is just proving my point. Don't you dare do anything to Tom Butler. Neither he nor I are here to cause trouble, as I've said (and as can be seen on my talk page!) several times over. My name comes from the last four letters of the Greek alphabet, not an appeal to "psi". Quit reading into things. PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 12:33, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't think we're supposed to call editors trolls, and one could argue whether "troll" is strictly accurate because it looks like an editor who is not trolling but who genuninely believes a bunch of FRINGE stuff, and is disappointed that it is so hard to push it at Misplaced Pages.

PhiChiPsiOmega has a highly original manner of editing, changing the opening sentence of Parapsychology to read "Parapsychology (or psi phenomena) is the somewhat controversial scientific study of psychic and paranormal phenomena." (diff). Clearly PhiChiPsiOmega's edits will need extensive scrutiny, and WP:AE can be used if nothing is learned within a week or two. Johnuniq (talk) 09:30, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, Johnuniq, but I'm not a "pusher". It is fact that Misplaced Pages isn't citing the full spectrum of scientific opinion. Not all parapsychologists are woo-meisters or New Age gurus, and a great deal of them are well-respected physicists, psychologists, and statisticians. My point is that the debate can't be just given over to everyone uber-skeptical of psi. I even cited a skeptic who thought parapsychology was a science, but its findings inconclusive. PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 12:33, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I think the inevitable result of this will be that PhiChiPsiOmega (talk · contribs) gets shepherded away from Misplaced Pages articles. He's going to waste editor's time because he seems incapable of understanding basic policies. The break is either going to be voluntary or enforced under WP:ARB/PS, and it's either going to happen sooner or later. Right now, I wouldn't be pushing for a ban, but I think it's ultimately inevitable. Barney the barney barney (talk) 11:22, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

via my crystal ball and potent psi powers, i can see it is only a matter of time before the user is escorted off the premises. its merely a question of how much disruption we allow before the inevitable. WP:ROPE -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:25, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

TRPoD, that was so funny I forgot to laugh. Look, the only reason I'm here isn't because I irrationally believe in the face of evidence, or that I believe non-scientists over scientists, or that I am a woo-pusher who wants to cause trouble. I am here because there is a wide spectrum of opinions on psi, and that, at best, you can call it an extremely controversial science that few defendants hold to, but not pseudoscience. Just because a lot of people think psychoanalysis is pseudoscience doesn't mean it's classified as such. PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 12:41, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

• I fully agree with noformation. ANI threads about disruptions in the topic area of pseudoscience are always problematic. That is why we have discretionary sanctions and this thread should be filed at WP:AE to stop the TLDR text and the peanut gallery. Second Quantization (talk) 12:51, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Wolfie, WP:AE limits us to providing diffs of WP:ARB/PS issues. Tom has a long history of WP:COI, WP:NPA, WP:AGF, and WP:IDHT issues. If this isn’t the right venue to deal with a chronically disruptive editor then what is? 76.107.171.90 (talk) 13:43, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

The discretionary sanctions available apply across pseudoscience and fringe articles, broadly construed. This includes all contributions where there are issues such as IDHT, NPA etc in that topic area. Second Quantization (talk) 14:44, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm really trying not to be a peanut gallery. I just think it's better classified as "fringe science" than "pseudoscience". PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 14:59, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

The problem is that Misplaced Pages is not about what you think it's about what the reliable sources say and there are hundreds of scientific references which classify parapsychology as a pseudoscience, it's not Misplaced Pages's problem that you disagree with the reliable sources. In response all you are doing all over the place is offering your own opinion and stirring up arguments. You are a single purpose account who is just going to keep arguing about the subject. You have made it clear you disagree with Misplaced Pages policy on pseudoscience and fringe theories. You seem to be using this website as a forum and just using various talk pages or places to argue about what you think about the subject. It really has got boring and if this isn't stopped now you are just going to log in everyday doing it and more and more articles or places on Misplaced Pages are going to be disrupted. When Tom Butler next logs in there's just going to be even more arguing over this issue and he feeds off it. I would appreciate an admin's response on this current issue but also this Butler character and why he has not been banned considering his purpose on Misplaced Pages is only to stir trouble. Goblin Face (talk) 15:28, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

And the reliable sources indicate that parapsychology is fringe science, but not outright pseudoscience. For the record, reliable sources also say psychoanalysis is pseudoscientific. That doesn't make it so. And I presented reliable sources to you, which you ignored repeatedly (which makes me wonder why I'm still talking to you). Once again, I've made my position clear: I am not just a pot-stirrer. I'm saying this topic needs to be looked at more. I only disagree with parapsychology being placed as pseudoscience, and even Misplaced Pages protocol seems to be open to just calling it controversial or questionable, but not completely pseudoscientific. Tom Butler may have bizarre beliefs, but he's right in saying this has gone in the wrong direction. PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 16:14, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

PhiChi says "And the reliable sources indicate that parapsychology is fringe science, but not outright pseudoscience". This is nothing more than trolling and it' utter nonsense like all of your other unreferenced personal beliefs that you have spammed on Misplaced Pages talk pages (you have failed to present a single scientific reference to make your case). It's trolling because there's countless references on the article which indicate it is a pseudoscience but every time you say it isn't. Can you not read the parapsychology article? There are over 10 references which indicate it is an obvious pseudoscience and many listed on the talk-page. It is even mentioned in the lead, and is cited in mainstream books on pseudoscience like Massimo Pigliucci, Maarten Boudry. (2013). Philosophy of Pseudoscience: Reconsidering the Demarcation Problem. University Of Chicago Press p. 158. "Many observers refer to the field as a "pseudoscience". When mainstream scientists say that the field of parapsychology is not scientific, they mean that no satisfying naturalistic cause-and-effect explanation for these supposed effects has yet been proposed and that the field's experiments cannot be consistently replicated." This is just a waste of time. No matter what is said you are just going to continue to promote your personal fringe beliefs on the subject, arguing, ignoring what people have said to you and causing disrupt. If someone wants to take this to another venue they can, but I am not wasting anymore time on this. Goblin Face (talk) 17:22, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I gave you plenty of references! Your failure to look at them is indicative of something else other than objectivity at work. I gave you plenty of articles from scientific journals and I could have given you more! It's not trolling. There are several authorities who claim psychoanalysis is pseudoscience, even though you still represent the counters of those who support psychoanalysis. They're saying many people refer to it as pseudoscience, not that it's completely pseudoscientific. And even if it is disagreed with, cite the esteemable people who actually support the stuff and are credible enough to get the material published in academic lit: http://books.google.com/books/about/An_Introduction_to_Parapsychology_5th_ed.html?id=rPlsF2BJiHUC. This counters several of the criticisms, and I don't see you even looking at it once! It's hardly something not worth citing like SIGNATURE IN THE CELL for evolution or something similar. PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 01:22, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Ok guys, let's not have this argument here as well. Let's either take this to the appropriate venue, as suggested by Second Quantization and Noformation or just simmer down and let people cool off a bit. Simonm223 (talk) 16:20, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

There is only one reason I spend pretty valuable time on Misplaced Pages. The online encyclopedia is read by the public, and as such, the articles that slander living people and give people a false impression about subjects have become effective propaganda for a demonstrably biased point of view. None of my edits, none of my comments on Misplaced Pages have been contrary to the belief that the public deserves a balanced view. In fact, that is the nonprofit charter of Misplaced Pages.

As a manager of a nonprofit myself, I am obligated to serve the best interest of the public in the nonprofit's literature. To knowingly falsely represent a subject violates that charter. As representatives of the Misplaced Pages nonprofit, the editors here are equally obligated to be truthful and slandering people and intentionally giving only one side of a subject, while as a policy, rejecting the other is something I have difficulty being quiet about.

You can ban me, but all that does is confirm my point. The real answer is to get off your pompous seat and try balancing the articles. I am sure editors like PhiChiPsiOmega will help. Tom Butler (talk) 17:03, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Proponents of Flat Earthers proponents have no claim to be equally represented in their views than Round Earth proponents. Not even at Flat Earth page.Arildnordby (talk) 17:06, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Arildnordby: How does parapsychology fit in with flat-Earth and YEC nonsense? They have no peer-review, no textbooks, and no wide range of academic literature behind them. Parapsychology, on the other hand, does. PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 01:22, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Tom, you serve no purpose on Misplaced Pages but are just here to cause trouble. You are anti-Misplaced Pages and both on and off this site you are promoting libel about various editors who you classify as "skeptics", you even have an entire website against Misplaced Pages which you believe is "biased". Look over your edit history there's nothing constructive but you are encouraging people to cause trouble on here. It's also stupid you claim to be "neutral" but you have written books claiming people can talk to the dead. Basically anyone who is not a believer in your fringe beliefs is "biased" and you attack Misplaced Pages in the process. Goblin Face (talk) 17:22, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Goblin, if you had read any of that material, you would understand that my behavior here is a learned one as a last resort. I am also demonstrably neutral in the study of these phenomena. For instance, I am a lone voice against a couple of popular techniques. I may seem biased toward the subject because I write about what I learn. Were it otherwise, then I would be preaching and this is not about religion.

If you do not consider yourself a skeptic, then why do you have "This user is a skeptic" on your page?

And to Simonm223, I can support that contention about slander. Rupert Sheldrake was very close to suing Misplaced Pages for slander. Other living persons have expressed to me similar points. I have even heard talk of a legal defense fund. Do you want to make a case of that? It is the skeptics who use terms like Woo and quack. As a general rule, the most we do is say you are a skeptic.

I will also note that I would not be aware of PhiChiPsiOmega if it were not that many of you were complaining about him on the Fringe Notice Board below where you mentioned my name. I do not monitor the parapsychology article ... it seems silly to try to help those who do not help themselves ... but it seemed only fair to warn PhiChiPsiOmega you were talking about him.

I know it is eating at you that I am inviting editors to come help in Citizendium. You should be happy that I am offering them a way to help that is out of your hair. Citizendium is an outpost on the Internet, but is a good place to develop balanced articles. The existing editors there will assure we do not develop propaganda, but they seem dedicated to balanced treatment of articles. If I were you, and looking at all of the complaints, I would be encouraging people to go there.

I think it is time to stop complaining and either fix the articles or admit that you want them as billboard for your opinions. Tom Butler (talk) 18:10, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Archiving parapsychology argument

I have archived PhiChi's argument on the parapsychology talk page because it's now been posted on Dean Radin's blog and there is going to be problems over this. The guy commenting on Dean Radin's blog is the notorious conspiracy theorist and internet troll Ben Steigmann, he has been banned on 60 sock puppets on Misplaced Pages already. An example of just one of his accounts here . I think this issue needs to be quickly resolved before loads of these fringe proponents start turning up to cause trouble. Goblin Face (talk) 19:33, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Goblin, it is inappropriate to completely archive a talk page. Also, your reasons are way off base. If I am not mistaken, this is a troublesome pattern of some editors that needs to stop.Tom Butler (talk) 21:57, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Okay, I will not edit war with you over this, but be advised that the archive is deliberate tampering with an open exchange in information and will not hide the conversation from the world. Tom Butler (talk) 22:13, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

No it's not inappropriate and there's also strong reason to now believe the user PhiChiPsiOmega is the banned sock puppet Ben Stiegmann (he published his full name on his banned account Potting's cats) who has loads of banned sock puppets on this website plus been banned for attacking people (racism even), just some examples he's commenting on Dean Radin's blog now posting libel about me and other editors, claiming I am a troll, sock, editor on Rationalwiki and a member of the Guerilla Skepticism Misplaced Pages Team (all false). Is it really a coincidence that PhiChi has gone silent and now Steigmann is posting all the same stuff on Radin's blog that PhiChi posted on Misplaced Pages and is following every move here? It's likely they are the same person. Also this person is threatening legal action against Misplaced Pages. He probably won't get very far because if you Google his name he's linked to racism and other unpleasant material but there's no reason why this banned user should be on Misplaced Pages. I have wasted enough time with this, I am going back to editing. Tom like Steigmann you are anti-Misplaced Pages and off the website you are damaging it and posting libel about various editors, it's bonkers that you are still on here but I can't be bothered to talk about this anymore. If no action is being taken an admin can close this. I am not further commenting. Goblin Face (talk) 22:23, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I've been active here, and aware of Tom Butler's activity here for almost 12 months. This is the first time I've ever agreed with him. -Roxy the dog (resonate) 00:25, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I'm not Steigmann! I have a life outside the internet, for crying out loud! I don't even know the guy? Aren't you violating your own rules. "Is it any coincidence...?" Yeah. Coincidence. So much for critical thinking and the idea that correlation isn't causation!!! PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 01:22, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Just a comment - I'm Ben Steigmann and my only former two sockpuppets are Pottinger's Cats and Blastikus, aside from many IPs - I'm not editing here anymore but I will say this - the racism comment is libelous, because in the material I wrote I explicitly distanced myself from racism and elsewhere have condemned racists (see for example the following, which lays this out in detail: http://bensteigmann.blogspot.com/2013/09/proclamation-pt-iii.html), what I put forth is probably the most anti-racist writing you could imagine while still acknowledging contentious material, however, on some of this contentious material, wikipedia has an extremely poor track record - the wikipedia article on Jewish Bolshevism is 100% false, and if editors feel that they want to support falsehoods based on prior, robotic conditioning, that is their prerogative: https://archive.org/details/LesDerniersJoursDesRomanof

In other cases, the case for "conspiratorial anti-Zionism" is made clear by the primary source literature itself: https://archive.org/details/Weizmann - the following NY Times articles further cement this point: New York Times (August 22, 1907): http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0D16FD3C5A15738DDDAB0A94D0405B878CF1D3, (September 17, 1914): http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F70913FA3D5C13738DDDAE0994D1405B848DF1D3 - see also: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F40D13FF3B5D1A7A93CAAB1783D85F468285F9

A current threat to this species from Zionism was enunciated by Martin Levi van Creveld, professor of military history at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, when he wrote: “We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. Let me quote General Moshe Dayan: “Israel must be like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.” I consider it all hopeless at this point. We shall have to try to prevent things from coming to that, if at all possible. Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.”: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/sep/21/israelandthepalestinians.bookextracts

If facing that reality is "racist", in spite of the documented facts, than that word truly is twisted. In the way it is being used here, it merely reflects poorly thought out knee jerk reactions.

My other ban from wikipedia was for attempting to get accurate citations of two mainstream medical reviews calling for the re-evaluation of vitamin C in cancer treatment, emphasizing the intravenous approach. Other wikipedia editors were falsifying content in order to uphold their views: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring&diff=prev&oldid=574271325#User:198.189.184.243_reported_by_User:UseTheCommandLine_.28Result:_Topic_ban_under_WP:ARBPS.29, https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive139#Arbitration_enforcement_action_appeal_by_198.189.184.243

As for the rest, the article I linked to did show circumstantial evidence that Dan Skeptic was connected to GSM (see his comment quoted here "I highly recommend that Sgerbic (talk · contribs) should help out on the article. Hopefully she will log in today and look at it": http://weilerpsiblog.wordpress.com/2013/10/23/wikipedia-the-dirty-tricks-machine/), not that it matters - it only matters to the extent that he is censoring material, and enforcing the inclusion of fraudulent pseudo-skeptical material (e.g. - Michael Shermer's attacks on Sheldrake were fraudulent - he invented statements - statements Sheldrake never made, after which he declared Sheldrake's theories unfalsifiable - scroll down to "I never claimed": http://www.sheldrake.org/reactions/do-skeptics-play-fair). I wasn't threatening to sue people on Misplaced Pages, but only noting the outrage some have expressed at a separate defamation site that some wiki editors write on, that exists to attack people with alternative views.

I wrote the above per my write of reply - and I maintain that right. I don't want to waste my time here writing on an encyclopedia that is based on appeal to popularity and appeal to authority, with users seemingly unable to question the fraud and conflict of interest that goes into the creation of that in the first place. The only way to salvage wikipedia is to remove the provisions WP:PRIMARY, WP:UNDUE, and WP:AC/DS. The result would be more anarchic, but it would be better in contributing to an actual expansion of human knowledge.67.188.88.161 (talk) 02:32, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

• Ben I would appreciate if you would stop posting libel about my username (and others) on various paranormal websites or keep trying to work out peoples identities on here. I have the right to remain anonymous, especially because paranormal/ fringe believers have sent wikipedia editors death threats in the past. You need to relax. I am not interested in your anti-Misplaced Pages activities, it's clear you hate this website. What you do in your spare time is up to you but posting on Dean Radin's blog is stirring up problems. I am not associated with the Guerilla Skeptic group. It was a mistake the conspiracy theorist Craig Weiler made on his blog because "skeptic" was in my former username, he since acknowledge it was only "speculation". I changed my username because of this issue. I have received other abuse which is uncalled for.

• You have been banned on countless IPs and accounts for disrupting Misplaced Pages.

This was also you here: It's likely these sock puppets were also you

• It's clear you probably have loads of other hidden accounts. I am not interested in your activities. If you are not PhiChi I really do apologize but you keep discussing me. It's up to you if you want to spend your time slagging off Misplaced Pages on various blogs but I ask to be left alone, I am not a sock, troll, or involved in any skeptic group. I have nothing against you personally. As for the racism charge you have been banned on Misplaced Pages for personally attacking people and you seem to have a history of calling people "Marxists". And your blog here you are doing holocaust revisionism and you wrote "My belief is that there is an ideological origin to this extremism and hate in the Jewish religion, fueling this mask that is the public face of the global oligarchy - and I have devoted time to it in order to penetrate this layer of our World System that the "educated" refuse to question because they are living under mind control" amongst other crazy talk. I have read elsewhere you have admitted to suffering from a serious mental trauma in your life and it's clear you are not all there, so I don't want to say anything negative to you , apologies If I have misunderstood you. You seem to have hundreds of IP addresses but it's none of my business. Like I said I am not interested in you so perhaps you can stop posting negative material about me and we just drop this now. I am not further contributing to this, so let's drop this. Hopefully an admin can close this if not action is taken. Goblin Face (talk) 04:03, 3 March 2014 (UTC) Thanks.

My only other sockpuppets were user:Joel Slovo and User:The World Instrument, which were associated with the editing activities of Blastikus, as well as Pottinger's cats, proof of that connection is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Pottinger%27s_cats&diff=prev&oldid=537091447#Large_new_section_at_Talk:New_World_Order_.28conspiracy_theory.29, my only other sockpuppets aside from that were IPs - regarding "extremism and hate", see the following: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6585-gentile#anchor13 - the site I called "Marxist" or at least "marxist influenced", globalresearch, can be called that - see this email discussion between myself and Peter Myers, that got archived by a person in that group: http://arabnyheter.info/sv/2013/03/05/petras-castigates-anti-stalinist-left-for-fall-of-communism-and-dismantling-of-welfare-state-by-peter-myers/ - I still support that site in other ways - regarding you, I will make another comment at a later time in the Radin blog attempting to get the focus off of you and onto the issues, regarding my other writings, I am not tendentious, and link to opposing arguments, something this site should consider. I am only writing here per right of reply, I do not intend to write here for a long time - perhaps I will petition to edit again if there is consideration of a change to the 3 rules I took issue with, and if allowed back, I would not engage in polemicism towards other editors. That is all I will say now.67.188.88.161 (talk) 04:51, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate you admitting what accounts you had on here but you have been banned on Misplaced Pages and I don't see why you are so obsessed with Misplaced Pages, if it's such an issue to you just ignore it. There are plenty of other websites out there. The problem I have is that when my username is posted on conspiracy theory or parapsychology blogs by yourself and others they are posted on countless other websites and forums as well with negative (and untrue) things said and don't particularly like the idea that fringe proponents are stalking all my edits and trying to work out my real life identity etc (for what purpose I still do not understand), if some critical material ends up on a psychic article (like Uri Geller or Dean Radin) then it is in Misplaced Pages policy it is not "bias" or "libel" because it is all sourced to reliable references not personal opinion. Everything on Misplaced Pages articles is cited to reliable sources so if Dean Radin and your other friends have a problem it should not be taken out on Misplaced Pages editors and perhaps he should look at what the reliable sources are actually saying instead of ignoring them. For example the professor of physics Robert L. Park has heavily criticized Radin in his book Voodoo Science, yet Radin has never responded to Park's criticisms. In other words I have done nothing wrong and I don't deserve to be called names, stalked or harassed. I really have had enough of this drama. I am quitting this website at the end of tomorrow and will never be coming back. This is not a nice experience. I would appreciate if an admin would close this. Goblin Face (talk) 14:03, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Lupita nyong'o

I have been in an edit war with another user on the http://en.wikipedia.org/Lupita_Nyong%27o page. The actress is from Kenya but was born in Mexico when her father was there as a professor. She has never referred herself as a Mexican, the media calls her a Mexi-Kenyan. The editor I have been engaged with "Rekx" come under several names it edit the page and to say the actress is a Mexican. I state that just because just because a person is born in a country does not mean they claimed citizenship of that country. Many Americans are born overseas but they are still Americans. I expressed to him/her that that his/her logic is wrong, because it would mean that Senator John McCain is Panamanian. Just because he was born there. The editor thinks its personal and that "I just don't want her to be Mexican" the editor brought an interview from a latino gossip magazine, it is in written in Spanish and she/he is claiming it is an interview of Lupita stating she his Mexican and Kenyan. I told him/ her that, it is not a valid source, its a gossip mag and its in a foreign language. English Misplaced Pages requires it sources to be in english for all anyone know. It can be the words to Mary had a little lamb. I suggested that we can put it in the body of the article as "According to..." this way I thought wouldn’t be controversial, because the truth is there no record of her being or saying she is a Mexican national. I thought I worded it in a way for us to some form consensus, but the other user refuse to work with me and I know I am very guilty of the edit war too but I think we need an admin to intervene.

The user editor has used many different names and devices including a mobile phone and is now under the name http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/Rekx 68.194.18.81 (talk) 10:03, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

This was my last edit ] 68.194.18.81 (talk) 09:46, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

And I will also like to add that even though the user I had the edit war with has many different names. Other people had engaged in an edit war over the same issue68.194.18.81 (talk) I initially put that she was a "Mexican-born Kenyan" that's what CNN and other refer to her as but the other editor said she didn't like how that68.194.18.81 (talk) 09:52, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Update: The editor has reverted my last edit but has chosen to ignore the notice I posted on his/her page to come here to talk 68.194.18.81 (talk) 10:23, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I have made my last edit to the page, I have reverted it back to how it was before. The other editor added his/her claims and "sources" 68.194.18.81 (talk) 10:48, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Like I said with his/her logic it would be that John McCain is Panamanian, being born in Mexico affords you the right to be Mexican Citizen but that does not mean she claimed it. Foreigners who have children in countries that practice "Jus soli" have to right to claim it or not claim it. Especially if her father is a diplomatic official there on duties. It's not imposed by force. I took out the Kenyan-Mexican part and work "Lupita Nyong'o is an actress...and according to... because we don't know if she has dual citizenship. You are just making the assumption that she is a Mexican national only because she was born there, And your only proof is from a gossip magazine in a foreign Language. Stop trying to make this personal trying to make it seem that I don't like Mexicans. If you have proper facts state it. All nations practice jus sanguinis (right of blood), so regardless of where one it born you are form where your parents are from. Her Parent could have or didn't claim Mexican citizenship for her. That why it article originally had "Mexican-born Kenyan". 68.194.18.81 (talk) 11:14, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

And stating a wiki article on Mexican Nationality laws as your source that shes a Mexican national is not a valid source.68.194.18.81 (talk) 11:21, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Also we are both to be blame for warring but I never vandalized. I reverted your claims without sources and constant disruption of edits what you did was vandalism, so don't point the figure at me and don't try to make it seem like I don't like Mexicans either68.194.18.81 (talk) 11:40, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Reading what you've written below makes me realize you still don't understand, you need valid sources and you also have know that just because, you born in a country does not make you an automatic citizen, Keanu Reeves was born in Beirut, Lebanon, is he Lebanese? Joaquin Phoenix was born in Puerto Rico is he Puerto Rican? Rocker Tommy Lee was born in Greece is he Greek? Amy Adams was born in Italy, is she Italian? the list can go on. Like I told you before, if she has Mexican citizenship then of course the article should state it, but there's no proof. 68.194.18.81 (talk) 11:40, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Lupita Nyong'o

I am the user who the editor above (with IP address 68.194.18.81) is referring to. Contrary to what he/she says about me having different names, I figured I would just create a Misplaced Pages account and start using it to post, whereas before only my IP address showed.

The user with IP address 68.194.18.81 has a problem with the inclusion of Lupita Nyong'o's dual-nationality status on her Misplaced Pages page, Lupita Nyong'o, and he/she seems to be content only when her Kenyan nationality is highlighted. When I edited the article to state that "Lupita Nyong'o is a Kenyan-Mexican actress...", the other user subsequently deleted the Kenyan-Mexican bit to leave only "Lupita Nyong'o is an actress..."

However, before I updated the Misplaced Pages article with this dual-citizenship information, the editor with IP address 68.194.18.81 had no problem posting "Lupita Nyong'o is a Kenyan actress..."

Nyong'o herself has stated in an interview to Reforma (a serious Mexican daily newspaper) that she indeed has both Kenyan and Mexican citizenships. You can access the Reform article here (via paid subscription): http://www.reforma.com/gente/articulo/713/1425085/

That same interview by Reforma was syndicated to Terra Networks and was made available for free here: http://entretenimiento.terra.com.mx/cine/actriz-de-12-years-a-slave-presume-orgullo-mexicano,741bce2e04ef0410VgnVCM5000009ccceb0aRCRD.html

In it, Nyong'o states:

"Nací en la Ciudad de México, y antes de cumplir un año me llevaron a Kenia, donde crecí. Mi padre tuvo un trabajo (como diplomático y profesor) allí, y por eso mi acta de nacimiento dice que soy mexicana, tengo ambas nacionalidades..."

Translation:

"I was born in Mexico City, and before turning one I was taken to Kenya, where I grew up. My father had a job (as a diplomat and professor) there, and that is why my birth certificate says I am Mexican; I have both citizenships..."

Note: I have added this citation to the Misplaced Pages article.

Furthermore, Mexican nationality is automatically conferred to "individuals born in Mexican territory regardless of the nationality of their parents;" as noted in Mexican nationality law. This is also cited (and locked!) in Lupita Nyong'o's Wikipedi article. The reason it had been locked is because this the editor with IP address 68.194.18.81 kept vandalizing Lupita Nyong'o's article in the past.

I ask you to please prevent this editor from further vandalizing the article.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rekx (talk • contribs) 10:50, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Can it be any more clearer than Lupita Nyong'o herself stating that she has both Kenyan and Mexican citizenships? No. It cannot get any clearer than that. That is from an interview she did which appeared on Reforma on 8 September 2013. http://www.reforma.com/gente/articulo/713/1425085/ (Syndicated here for free: http://entretenimiento.terra.com.mx/cine/actriz-de-12-years-a-slave-presume-orgullo-mexicano,741bce2e04ef0410VgnVCM5000009ccceb0aRCRD.html )

Update:

My 11:47, 2 March 2014‎ update had been made to reflect this in a language that is clear and not prone to confusion:

"Lupita Amondi Nyong'o (born 1 March 1983) is an actress and film and music video director of dual Kenyan and Mexican citizenship."

It cannot be any clearer than that. Please prevent the other user with IP address 68.194.18.81 from vandalizing the page any further. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rekx (talk • contribs) 11:56, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

This thing sounds like a content dispute. You two need to stop edit warring and calmly talk the issue through on the article talk page (which is empty of any discussion on anything!) before editing restrictions on both of you or the article result. And stop making mutual accusations of vandalism for stuff which clearly isn't WP:vandalism. I won't comment on the content dispute since this is the wrong place. But I will say that as Misplaced Pages:Verifiability makes clear, while we prefer English sources, we do allow non English ones if no suitable English replacements exist. As this is a WP:BLP we also require high quality sources, although we would generally be more tolerant of lower quality sources if it's an interview with the subject, particularly in cases relating to self identification (but note there's a difference between someone acknowledging multiple citizenship and national self identification) or other simple factual details of the subject. Nil Einne (talk) 19:37, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Vandal, harassing threats of lawsuits

• 58.7.243.245 (talk · contribs)

Have reported to AIV. Pending a block, probably wise to report here as well, given the lawsuit bullshit. JNW (talk) 15:02, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) The IP has been blocked for 72 hours by CIreland. (t) Josve05a (c) 15:06, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

It's dynamic (what a surprise). Bishonen | talk 15:17, 2 March 2014 (UTC).

issue on French WP (diff in French)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hi, For several weeks now, French WP administrators have been thinking I was another contributor (due to one (wrong) filter reaction after a revert of mine). After 6 requests which only met ironical and blunt rebukes, I asked for a CU (about myself). They not only did not do it but blocked me (as a sock puppet of the other contributor !!!). I feel completely offensed by their attitude and as I cannot manage having them facing facts, I decided I could try here, where good faith and civility are not an option. See this diff for instance : http://fr.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Wikipédia:Vérificateur_d%27adresses_IP/Requêtes/mars_2014&diff=prev&oldid=101725742 Template:Fr I understand that Fr WP and en Wp may not be the same but as part of WM projects, I hope for a resolution of this incident what I consider a blatant lack of care for this project's values. Thank you in advance. With the best, --90.96.71.143 (talk) 16:47, 2 March 2014 (UTC) I just created account User:Slinggelid so that you may be sure that I am one person, as I use a dynamic IP ad. usually.

en Misplaced Pages CAN'T resolve, or arbitrate on any other Misplaced Pages.Arildnordby (talk) 16:50, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Hello, soo...is there any WM Ombudsman or SOMEONE on earth who could have them CHECKING facts ? I tried 2 Admin's TP, Abuse filter 3 times... Noticeboard, CU. They just refused to check it because they think that it is likely (sic) that I am another...Thank you--90.96.71.143 (talk) 16:58, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

IP vandalising climate data for months

75.191.173.190 (talk · contribs) has been on a trail of disruption, including undoing the transclusion of established templates, falsely claiming "updates" to data (when most government meteorological agencies only update normals every decade), "adjusting" temperatures that have been verified countless times without changing the source, among other crimes. Since this has been going on since at least New Year's Day, a several-month-long block is in order. GotR 19:11, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Have you tried contacting the user? What do they say? --Tóraí (talk) 00:25, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, but to no avail. GotR 00:42, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Have you actually discussed with them specifics of what is wrong with their edits? All I'm seeing in the above link is a generic templated message about unsourced material. (Such a discussion would also be helpful to administrators, as I'm not seeing any outright intentional vandalism, not knowing the specifics or intentions of the IP editor. ~Adjwilley (talk) 22:51, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I told them to: 1) make their edits directly to transcluded templates, not supplant their transclusion with several more KBs of code; an example is Minneapolis#Climate, which transcludes {{Minneapolis weatherbox}}. The user was told by others to obey this custom. 2) False claims, as I find it hard to believe the IP does not notice the main source presently used at {{Seattle weatherbox}} is the same as the "new", and "more accurate" source the IP has been claiming to use; the user may be lying 3) I also hinted to them of the vastly superior quality of normals, which include smoothing for missing and suspect data, over simple arithmetic averages. Therefore, this user has indicated no will to cooperate, and this is a behavourial issue, not a mere dispute over the undisputed official status of Normals. "My master, Annatar the Great, bids thee welcome!" 23:20, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Legal threats and insults

User: JohnRTroy twice today has accused me of libel, and for the last several days has been using insulting language, which I have tried to let roll off my back. But with two legal threats in one day, here and here, I think it's necessary for me to task admin to take a look and seeing if his behavior is appropriate.

He is already the focus of an ANI, above, for advocating fringe science, which he since seems to have back away, after User:Atama warned him about about adding original research to Misplaced Pages and User:Miniapolis protected the page he was editing, Al Plastino, for a week. Redlink editors, some evidently connected as friends/familky with the subject's daughter, had been trying to add a fringe claim about a vaccine — with this editor in one case misrepresenting the CDC and in another claiming, "If you read enough, there is a link to vaccinations causing GBS. This is not 'fringe science'."

He's called me "hostile" , again "hostile" , "antagonistic" , "hostile" and "passive-aggressive rudeness" (evidently since I don't name-call, I'm being "passive-aggressive"), and "hostility" .

These may not be curse-word insults, but they are consistent and they have gone on for days without my saying anything. He's not stopping. He's just continued and continued to bait me and poke me in the chest, and I won't respond in kind. But he has to stop. I myself lost my temper elsewhere in early February and paid the price, a one-day suspension ... my only such block in more than 8 1/2 years. My normative behavior can be inferred here. I admitted I was wrong and did my time. Now I'm on the receiving end, and being call libelous to boot. I ask for help. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:09, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I would ask those involved to review all of the correspondence between us on this very page, the WP Comics Talk page, and the article in question. My main points were I found this user's tone insulting when making comments--and in part, my comments are to ask him to be a little more civil in his criticism according to WP:Civility. I will agree with what this board says, but I am disappointed that over the weekend I have been part of two Administrative actions. My concern is that others will see this and it will reflect on WP badly.

Regarding the "Fringe Theories", I've been attempting to find out if there is a legitimate link between the viruses and I think the assumption or accusation of this was a little bit insulting, as there are certain complications that can occur. Ultimately, I think this is an over-reaction. JRT (talk) 21:36, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Neither "That's actually a potentially libelous statement" nor "Made a near-libelous statement regarding the family of Al Plastino, implying they were trying to get ammunition for a lawsuit" is a legal threat in he sense of WP:NLT. Not in my view at least. DES 21:39, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

That said, it is best to avoid the term "libel" or things near it in discussing the actions of other wikipedia editors if at all possible, as it can be takenm as a legal threat. DES 21:41, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I agree with both of DESiegel's points; no legal threats have been made, but try not to bring up "libel" at all when referencing other editors since it just escalates matters and can lead to misunderstandings.

As to the claimed civility breaches, I see Tenebrae accusing JohnRTroy of being uncivil, and JohnRTroy accusing Tenebrae of being uncivil. Why don't you both try this: ignore each others' perceived incivility. If you do that, it will magically vanish. JohnRTroy, if Tenebrae says something that you think is rude when you are debating a point, ignore it. Otherwise your accusation of rudeness will be seen as hostility. Tenebrae, try the same, if JohnRTroy calls you "hostile" or "passive-aggressive", then pretend those words aren't there, because they don't affect the argument in any way. What matters is what guidelines and policies are best adhered to, and what common ground can be found, and frankly nobody is going to care if one person thinks the other is rude (as long as it doesn't escalate into personal attack territory and so far everything has fallen far short of that). Hostility tends to fall into a feedback loop, where one person says "you insulted me", the other says "I'm insulted that you think I'm being insulting" and so on. It's pointless, and doesn't advance either of your positions. -- Atama頭 21:51, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I agree with this and will no longer make any comments involving that user in this instance. Furthermore, I will refrain from making any more edits in the original disputed article in question and will also end all comments regarding this dispute. JRT (talk) 21:54, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

It appears the content dispute involved is over the cause of death of comic book writer Al Plastino. In particular this blog says that many news sources got it wrong by saying that he died from prostate cancer and that Misplaced Pages therefore got it wrong by repeating those news sources. At the time of the blog being published the article did not actually say that was the cause of death, but merely stated that he was suffering from prostate cancer before he died. Strictly speaking based on Misplaced Pages's rules we should just repeat the allegedly false information published in reliable sources (that he died from prostate cancer), but I am somewhat partial to the way the article is now, which is left ambiguous, as an IAR thing since it is a sensitive issue and we have some reason to doubt the mainstream press. CorporateM (Talk) 22:02, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

• See also above. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:33, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Etiquette of Redmen44

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hello,

I'm coming to AN/I today because I am concerned about the etiquette of Redmen44. Recently, he removed sources on List of Major League Baseball players with 300 career stolen bases with the rationale of "it slows down my apparatus", which in itself is not a very good reason to remove sources. Also, many similar Featured Lists such as List of Major League Baseball players with 100 triples use individual references. I am currently trying to reference every player and he and I continued to revert each other (part of which is my fault). I finally left him a message on his talk page, but he removed it within hours of me putting it up. However, I'm not concerned just because he removes messages, but that he continued and the fact that he removes people's messages gives me no confidence that anything would get resolved, so I came to AN/I to get community input. Thoughts anyone? Sportsguy17 (T • C) 22:10, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Concur with report. Editor is slow edit warring but I didn't see the notice required for WP:AN3 so I added. Someone did ask Redmen44 to add edit summaries to revert, and they've been doing that, at least. I suggest OP follow suggestion another editor made to discuss at Talk:List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_with_300_career_stolen_bases#References NE Ent 22:41, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

I added some thoughts there and hopefully some more editors will opine, but generally in lists under WikiProject Baseball, individual references are expected, since official references may disagree. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 22:49, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

archivetop|status=Resolved|result=Editors are discussing on article talk page. NE Ent 23:45, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

It is not resolved at all, since Redmen44 took it upon himself to revert again, which is again inappropriate, but I don't want to break 3RR, so I'm not going to revert but this is not cool. And Redmen44, it's not about computer speed for the thousandth time, it's about verifiability, something Redmen44 does not seem interested in, sadly. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 23:51, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

It is appropriate since the current consensus on the talk page is 2 to 1 for Redmen44's position. NE Ent 00:04, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

He is overruling consensus from WikiProject Baseball. Why do people believe less "clutter" is more important than having verifiable content. Plus, it is not a vote. Lets see what happens when regular featured content contributors comment and then we'll see. I highly doubt issacl and Redmen44 will be supported, since it is a norm to have individual references, but we'll see. Sportsguy17 (T • C) 00:15, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't doubt any of that, but is there any reason discussion should be continuing here on what is now a content dispute? NE Ent 00:18, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Calling someone a child molester

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Talk page access revocation?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Can some uninvolved admin please consider the merits of permitting continued talk page access to the currently-blocked HRA1924 (talk · contribs). Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 22:34, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Why are you (Sitush) posting on the page? I suggest Sitush unwatch the page and HRA1924 refrain from pinging Sitush again. There is, depending on one's point of a view, either a) legal threat or b) ridiculous nonsense on the page about getting the Indian government to force Indian ISPs to block Misplaced Pages access. Probably worth a look if you're inclined (and have a block button). NE Ent 22:48, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

You've kind of answered your own query: they pinged me and the issue is WP:NLT. If you'd faced this crap for as long as I have, you'd perhaps understand why I am fed up of it. - Sitush (talk) 00:10, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, so the proper response is "don't ping Sitush" anymore and "revert your legal threat," not removing talk page access. (If anyone wants to squabble whether or not they've faced more crap, I'd suggest User_talk:NE Ent to spare the rest of the ANI watchers having a boring, pointless discussion churning ANI). NE Ent 00:16, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I suspect that you are not familiar with what has gone on. Try this for the very tip of the iceberg - a thread that itself resulted in the current block & has several people mentioning NLT. They've done it before and now they're doing it again. How much rope? Agreed, uninvolvedf people will not be familiar but uninvolved admins will presumably take a bit of care to at least check out some of the background before making a decision. - Sitush (talk) 00:22, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

HRA1924 denies "explicit" legal threats but their posts repeatedly imply legal action. They have also made clear they don't feel bound by Misplaced Pages's terms of use. Further, they have used the talkpage for personal attacks including calling another editor a criminal.

Editors, including me, have tried to address individual talkpage questions but regrettably not to their satisfaction. I am now concerned that we are a) largely relitigating the ANI thread linked by Sitush above, and b) straying into a legal discussion that should be something for the user to raise off-wiki with the WMF.

However I share NE Ent's general reluctance to block talkpage access - this is not a troll, it is someone pursuing a grievance that would be better taken up elsewhere. Absent any other views I propose at this point: declining the current unblock request, warning against personal attacks and implied legal threats and again urging the editor to correspond directly with the WMF and/or await their response. Euryalus (talk) 01:46, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

They have been warned about the attacks and implicit legal threats for many months now. What makes you think that they will change? They've appealed to the WMF, to OTRS and umpteen other places and are displaying a distinct WP:IDHT tendency which is sort of reflected in the closing comments of the RFM linked to in the prior ANI thread. I'm not getting into the semantics of trolling but this is an organisation that only pays lip-service to our policies when it suits them and won't let it drop on-wiki. How many more warnings and advisories? - Sitush (talk) 01:53, 3 March 2014 (UTC) Struck a bit: I forgot the crazy rule about RFM being privileged, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 01:56, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

HRA is inappropriately wikilawyering all over their talk page. TPA should be cut off, we're not here to coddle malcontents, we're here to build an encyclopedia. Shut them down and let's get on with it. (And those who spend the vast majority of their time posting on noticeboards in favor of folks like this should also go and edit articles. Misplaced Pages is not a model community or a fucking debating society. Those "editors" who don't in some way improve the encyclopedia are freeloaders and need to start pulling their weight.) BMK (talk) 02:10, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

A re-reading of the history, and the editor's latest post have convinced me. Striking the previous, and have blocked talkpage access per WP:NLT and WP:NPA. - Euryalus (talk) 03:50, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Agree with User:Euryalus that a talk page ban is needed. This user just won't take no for an answer. It started out as an issue about India Against Corruption. The legalistic complaints will go on forever so long as we keep listening. The underlying case was heard in several places and it appears to have no merit (at least, he can't provide sources to justify his position). EdJohnston (talk) 18:12, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Dalton761 disruptive editing of Logan Henderson

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Dalton761 (User talk:Dalton761) has begun his/her Misplaced Pages career with three disruptive edits to Logan Henderson. We need to prevent further disruption. This is my first time down this path for any disruptive new editor, so I hope I'm doing it right. —Anomalocaris (talk) 00:29, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

They appear to have stopped, but I've posted a vandalism warning on their talk page. If they resume, this will escalate to a block. In passing, there's a noticeboard for vandalism reports like this - WP:AIV - where you can get a swift(er) response than here. Euryalus (talk) 00:49, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Blocked user socking

On 27 February, Worm That Turned declined the unblock request of User talk:Arri at Suburban Express, a user with an already long history of socking and disruptive editing.

Three days later, there are edits on it's owner's article from 99.67.249.6. Geolocated to CHAMPAIGN, ILLINOIS; the IP removed substantial information from the article. Can we please get a semi-permanent way to deal with this sock?

Soni (talk) (Previously TheOriginalSoni) 00:37, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Do you mean, a ban or something like that? Epicgenius (talk) 02:34, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

The fact that Arri is blocked, has had an unblock declined after functionary review, and is probably socking would strongly imply he's de facto banned (see WP:BAN). As such, and given sufficient behavioral evidence (since CU won't confirm IPs), any admin should feel free to issue lengthy blocks to the IPs in question. If we want to have a formal community ban discussion I think we can do that, though it really wouldn't change anything (and I'm not clear on whether we can have a community ban if ArbCom or the functionaries have asserted jurisdiction over a case, not that I'm sure that's happened here). Regardless, endorse blocking 99.67.249.6 of any length greater or equal to one month (prefer three). —/Mendaliv//_Δ's/ 03:11, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Atisone Seiuli

I think this needs to be speedy deleted if someone could check it out. Sportfan5000 (talk) 07:31, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Spam links by Arbappy.eee

User:Arbappy.eee (talk, contribs) seems to be here for the sole purpose of adding spam links. Specifically (all links are diffs):

• Replacing existing (often dead) links with spam links: Graphics tablet, Biological immortality, November, Imagination Technologies
• Adding new external links: Phablet (added as a citation), Leptin, Ubuntu (operating system), Binoculars

Possibly related IP addresses are 103.15.43.234 (edited the same link into Imagination Technologies immediately prior to Arbappy.eee's work) and 59.152.98.76 (started changes to Graphics tablet which Arbappy.eee then finished). -- Perey (talk) 08:07, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

WP:Featured picture candidates

As you may know, FPC is the only featured content process to have a minimum number of reviewers required in a relatively short period of time - 5 supports in 10 days (and a supermajority of consensus in its favour) is required. Unfortunately, like all of Misplaced Pages, it's prone to the occasional lulls, and could use more reviewers during them, and this is currently one of those lulls. Any help would be appreciated. Adam Cuerden 09:27, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Adam Cuerden - I'm not sure this is the problem that you're making it out to be. Images that get promoted generally have no problem getting the requisite five votes, or even more than that, in the allotted time. I look at that page every few days, and for the most part the images that only have one or two votes on them after five or six days are ones that I would oppose. Instead of opposing them, I don't comment at all, which (since there is a minimum support threshold) is a polite way of achieving the same outcome. Sᴠᴇɴ Mᴀɴɢᴜᴀʀᴅ Wha? 16:59, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Help wanted

A user is utterly determined to slavishly follow the rules by insisting on a CSD tag on Lookout Mountain Air Force Station/Draft as a test page, despite having been told that it is NOT a test page but text submitted via OTRS by a veteran who is not computer savvy.

Having been told it's not my text, and not a test page (because, you know, I have been here long enough not to need test pages), he still insists that I may not remove the tag. Because we must never under any circumstances ignore any rule, however fatuous the circumstances.

So, someone please remove the tag for me because it's not a test page and this user is adamant that the CSD Test tag may not be removed by me because technically I created the article (even though it's not my text and trhe CSD criterion is blatantly wrong). Guy (Help!) 10:00, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Shouldn't drafts be created in either the draft namespace or the user space? Viriditas (talk) 10:13, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I didn't even know the Draft namespace existed until recently! I do not care at all where it goes, only that we have the text as provided by a reader who took the trouble to email us to try to help improve the encyclopaedia. Feel free to move it anywhere you think appropriate. Guy (Help!) 10:20, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Yes, moved. (Draft:: is a super new feature, so no "boomerangs" necessary 'cause JzG created the draft in mainspace). NE Ent 10:23, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Being told I'm a dick and stupid makes one tune out what the other person is saying and just stick to the rules. Bgwhite (talk) 10:23, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Yea, two servings of trout: one to JzG for telling Bgwhite to stop acting like a dick, and one to Bgwhite for acting like ... for not just moving an obvious draft to the draft namespace and instead using an inappropriate CSD tag. NE Ent 10:33, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Only don't forget to serve those trouts with a nice serving of chips. Both were trying to speak the same language, but both failed this time DP 11:40, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you everybody. Note: I only called Bgwhite a dick when he continued to revert my removal of the {{db-test}} template after I'd explained that it is not a test and that I was not the originator, but was bringing text to the attention of editors on behalf of a veteran - a very decent gentleman who did not feel up to editing Misplaced Pages. NE Ent said it... I was really very surprised, as I did not anticipate a problem with Bgwhite, but I do take the blame for starting with gratuitous snark - {{db-test}} template notifications on an admin's talk page? Um, right. Guy (Help!) 17:39, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Pablo Casals

There is currently an ongoing request for comments on Talk:Pablo Casals. To summarise the issue very quickly (everything is given in more detail on the talk page), Casals is apparently commonly known as Pablo in English, even though his Catalan name is Pau. There is consensus for Pablo Casals to use Pablo, and the current discussion is about whether to use Pablo or Pau on other pages, in particular, articles that relate to Catalan culture.
I am writing to you because of the concerns I have with another editor. So far, users have considered this matter responsibly and thought neutrally about the usage of the names in English. On the other hand, User:In ictu oculi has ignored the findings of others and asserted his opinion that Pau should be used primarily from a Catalan viewpoint. I was happy to overlook this, but his comments are becoming less and less WP:NPOV culminating in the remark it seems strange for en.wikipedia to be introducing a Franco-era type ban on the name of one of the most famous Catalans. It is worth noting that the user has an extensive history of editing Catalan-related articles amongst the many articles he or she edits.
I would be very grateful if some administrators could take a look at the situation and try to keep it in order. I am concerned that nationalist feelings are disrupting what should be a sensible discussion. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 10:18, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

We see here an example of Gonzalez's Law: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Franco or fascists approaches 1." EEng (talk) 14:27, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Not an admin matter, I reckon, but every fan of classical music in the world will know him as Pablo. Guy (Help!) 10:21, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply, Guy. Perhaps you might like to make a comment on the page to repeat your observation. The problem is that a lot of evidence has been submitted that supports the use of Pablo as the common name, but this is being ignored by the other user. I have assumed good faith for a long time, but it is starting to become apparent that he is pushing a pro-Catalan viewpoint, as much as I hate to make such allegations. I am concerned that the discussion is starting to become disrupted by his comments. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 10:26, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't think this is an ANI issue as much as it is a content dispute. a posting on the WP:DRN would be more appropriate. Epicgenius (talk) 15:13, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment, Epicgenius. I looked at WP:DRN, but it states there that they do not accept cases that are currently undergoing a request for comments, which is happening at Talk:Pablo Casals. I posted here not because of the underlying content dispute of which name to include in the article, but the general course of the discussion and the possibility of it becoming a problematic, contentious debate about unrelated nationalism and politics. 131.111.185.66 (talk) 16:46, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

• THere's an RFC on the talkpage, which seems like the right approach. I've seen both Pablo and Pau used, especially for the Orquestra Pau Casals that he founded. Most sources say Pablo but it's not entirely one-sided. This is discussed in endless detail on the talkpage. The issue is contentious because Casals himself was a Catalan nationalist and came to prefer Pau, but he originally became famous under the name Pablo and then (per his autobiography) he had to keep performing under that name as his booking agents (etc.) wanted this, until he started his own orchestra under the name Pau. So now there's a nationalistic dispute projected onto Misplaced Pages. 70.36.142.114 (talk) 03:58, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

Steve Lyons: Notability, sockpuppets, personal attacks, edit warring, etc.

Hi,

Not entirely sure where to request this. Can an admin please remove the apparent vanity entry in the back history of Steve Lyons? I have corrected it to the disambiguation page as it was before it was vandalised. It was deleted previously under another name at AFD. There are BLP issues here. There are also enough socks to fill a small chest of drawers (including Stephaniemcqueen (talk · contribs) Damian St. Charles (talk · contribs), Kristofmcking (talk · contribs), 24.153.157.118 (talk · contribs). I am also suspicious of DepressedPer (talk · contribs). Barney the barney barney (talk) 15:23, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

• I'm not sure what you're asking (and you didn't notify the Stephanie account, and possibly not the other ones either). You've reverted to an earlier situation and that's fine, but I don't see a reason to remove it from the history. Kristofmcking had one of those drafts in their user space, untouched for a long time, and I deleted that as an abandoned draft. (BTW, you didn't link to the actual AfD: it's here, Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Steve Lyons (actor, entrepreneur).) You're probably right about Kristofmcking and Damian St. Charles, but that should really be tackled in an SPI (CU won't be necessary, I think). I don't see how Depressed is involved. Drmies (talk) 17:21, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I want the revisions deleted publicly from the article history. I also want Stephaniemcqueen (talk · contribs) blocked for socking and/or vandalism. Take your pic. But get it sorted please. Barney the barney barney (talk) 21:48, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

to add to the rap sheet: I am now being accused of racism. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages%3AMiscellany_for_deletion%2FUser%3AStephaniemcqueen%2Fsandbox&diff=598014378&oldid=598001564 Barney the barney barney (talk) 21:50, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't think those revisions meet the WP:REVDEL criteria. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:00, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Trolling from Holdek

Apparently he is back with a vengeance . I have no idea what his templated "warning" is about, but it seem to be payback/harassment after I commented on his behavior in previous ANI thread involving him. Someone not using his real name (talk) 18:29, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Can somebody indef hem back please? How many times should this user be blocked so that everybody understands they are net negative?--Ymblanter (talk) 18:36, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't know about that; that's Twinkle's automated notification that happens when someone tags a page for speedy deletion--in this case, Category:Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Holdek. I think using the "attack page" rationale is a bit much, but not wholly unreasonable; in any event, the post to your talk page is just a side effect of that tagging. It perhaps wasn't deliberate. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 18:39, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

I think I have figured out what that cryptic warning on my talk page was about. It's an ArbCom matter now. See https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment#Clarification_request:_Toddst1.2FHoldek Someone not using his real name (talk) 18:55, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Did you even look at Holdek's talk page before coming here (much less discuss things on it)?unnecessary sass, although the point about discussing things before coming here stands Check out the User_talk:Holdek#Unblocked thread, wherein WormTT explains why it wasn't found to be socking. Writ Keeper ⚇♔ 19:00, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

That's correct: it was an automatic, unforeseen by me, and unintentional result of my deletion nomination for Category:Suspected Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Holdek.