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== Does Valve consider add-ons of Half-Life as canon? ==

I was wondering if Valve considers add-ons of original Half-Life as canon and treats events depicted in them as if they really happened between HL and HL2. None of new monsters from Opposing Force appears in HL2, but that isn't too proving because most monsters from Half-Life are missing too (houndeye, bullsquid and many others). Besides of this I didn't find anything what could answer my question. Does anyone have more info about this? Perhaps somebody who read Half-Life2: Raising the Bar book? ] 23:04, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

:Hmm. It could probably go either way. I mean, on the one hand, Valve used Barney Calhoun from Blue Shift in HL2, and they ''had'' to have authorized Gearbox to make it; on the other hand, none of the Opposing Force aliens are consistent in appearance with the original Half-Life enemies (it's subtle, but it's there if you know what to look for), and we never hear of Shepard again even though the danger of "telling all" isn't going to make any difference anymore. --] 00:14, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

::Apparently it's like this: Blue Shift and Decay are fully canon, as are some occurences in Black Mesa as seen in OpFor (most notably the destruction of the facility). Race X is not part of the Half-Life storyline, and was introduced to allow Gearbox to go their own way without breaking consistency with the HL storyline.


::Wether or not RaceX was from Xen, a Combine World, or somewhere else completely, has not been answered, and unless Gearbox makes a sequel to OpFor, likely never will. {{User:Anárion/sig}} 00:29, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

:::Something else just occurred to me: Walter Smith's exact words were about "add-ons", and as OpFor was an "add-on" in that it required you to already have the original and Blue Shift didn't, I guess Blue Shift doesn't count in that regard. ;) --] 00:39, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

::::Blue Shift was developed as an add-on, to be more precise an extra campain for Half-Life on the Dreamcast. Just as Decay was an add-on of the PlayStation version. Because the Dreamcast HL used a slightly different engine, BS apparently not be backported as an add-on, and was released standalone. At least the engine changes are the excuse Valve gives why BS isn't available in Steam. {{User:Anárion/sig}} 00:48, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

:::::Blue shift is now available on steam and has been for a month or 2. (] 01:05, 7 October 2005 (UTC))

::::Jordi made that comment two months ago. --] 01:38, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

== After Half-Life 2: Aftermath? ==

I suddenly feel that Half-Life 3 would be at E3 2007 and in turn release in ] after ] in this ]. But no. ], creator of the ] franchise, managing director of ], would state that Valve would intend to rest the Half-Life franchise for at least three years, and he would not expect Half-Life 3 (since it was confirmed to be in the early planning stages), if it is actually developed, to be released for several years. Is it right or not?

:Um. What?

== References to Russia ==

On the whole, these are useful. Although can we squeeze them into the "Setting" section? Not least because they complement the notes there on Bulgaria. Also, is it fair to say the references are Russian over Eastern European? I'm no expert (to say the least!). --] 11:24, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

: Yes, I didn't know in what section to put this information. As for it is Russian or not, I clearly know that the texts on the posters and ads are in Russian, and the cars in Ravenholm are definitely Russian ones. Also, I would be grateful if someone could take a screenshot of the poster saying "МЕЙЕРХОЛЬД" (on the first and several other levels - on the first level you can see it in a tiny park just after exiting the railway station building) or in Ravenholm - ad on the roof or Russian cars. Russian cars can also be seen in some level (don't know how it is called), before Freeman enters a building and helps people to fight Combine soldiers. --] 11:56, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

::]Done. See attached image. ] 07:58, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Oh, OK. Good. Well I reckon we need some input from those who contributed on the Bulgarian setting of the game. I think that was ] and {{User:Anárion/sig}}. My (completely ignorant) feeling is that the game probably incorporates diverse elements that can be labelled "Eastern European". It sounds, from this discussion and from earlier ones, like there are at least Russian and Bulgarian references (and, from my limited travelling in "the East", bits of former-East Germany). If needs be, it might be worth splitting the Setting section to segregate information about the Orwellian nature of ''HL2'' from that about where it draws geographical inspiration from. Although there are obvious reasons why these two elements are not entirely separate. Anyway, comments please from the Bulgarian camp. --] 12:39, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

:No I didn't. I think you got me confused for someone else. ] 07:58, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

:According to Raising the Bar, Eastern Europe was chosen at the suggestion of a staff member who came from the region during a brainstorming session. They settled on it because it was an area rarely seen in games, outside of the top secret military base cliche, and allowed for more obvious contrast between human and Combine architecture. It isn't so much that Russia is 'referenced': it's the whole setting! The section should definitely be merged with Setting.

:: I don't agree that ''the only language that writes this particular word with the Cyrillic alphabet is Bulgarian'' - in Russian also. --] 20:29, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

:::Correct me if I'm wrong, Anthony, but isn't the Russian word цемент? I was the one who (without logging in) added the bit about Bulgaria in the setting. When I saw "цимент" in Ravenholm, my first reaction was either that it was a level designer being careless with the word "цемент" or something written in another Slavic language. As for the cars I would agree they are Russian ones but I think many other countries in соцлагерь have very similar(if not identical) looking ones :) I do not remember all of the various text on posters and signs in the game but I do know most of them would be perfectly correct in other languages like Bulgarian or Serbian. I am curious if the name of that prison "Nova prospekt" would be correct in Bulgarian(or some other language). I don't think the game is meant to be based in Bulglaria(or anywhere, really), simply that the game artists wanted to give some kind "Eastern European" feel and Bulgaria would be an obvious source based on Viktor Antonov's hometown and some of the things you see in the game. Given the cultural "overlaps" that Eastern European countries have it's a bit hard to draw the line. --] 00:51, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

:::: Well, you're right, you convinced me :) And it's цемент indeed in Russian, not цимент. --] 02:42, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

::::Me again. I've just seen your "References to Russia" section. Suggest that we merge it in with "setting" or change it into "References to Eastern Europe", since most of what you mentioned could apply equally to other Eastern European countries. As for Grigori being only a Russian name, I think that's going a bit too far, and as for his accent, I personally thought he sounded Scottish at times. The voice actor is listed at IMDB as a one "Jim French".--] 01:11, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Pravit. Re-work so that "Setting" refers to Eastern Europe, but perhaps leave in bits where there's a specific Russian or Bulgarian reference. Lose the separate section on "References to Russia". As regards Grigori, coming from Scotland I must confess to be hard pressed to confuse him for a fellow Scot. He has got something of a comedy Russian/Eastern European accent though. Maybe it's his rolling "R"s that sound Scottish. --] 09:29, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

The setting is beyound doubt mainly influenced by architechture in Sofia, but i could swear on my life that the building that features the supression field is the Serbian Republic Parliament, not only does it reseble the building but the construction layout of the level is the same in the real life. Also the block housing near the river resembles Novi Beograd . -- cooler

==Opening section==

The first few paragraphs of the article take up quite a bit of space now. The bits about different retail versions, etc. could probably be buried elsewhere in the article. It might just be my warped aesthetics, but I think a short opening paragraph followed by the index box looks best. Especially when there's a game infobox alongside as well. --] 17:21, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
:Yeah, it does seem kind of bloated at the beginning. ] 17:27, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

OK. I've hacked and moved some of the offending material. I think a simple cut-and-paste job suffices, but please edit at will. I think the result is much better than what we had before. --] 20:18, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

==Article structure== ==Article structure==


Revision as of 11:56, 23 June 2006

Article structure

Another thing - would it make sense to reorganise the article's sections a bit so that "Cuts" became part of Gameplay; "Engine", "Release and Distribution", "Steam and Content Delivery" and "Controversies" became part of some "Technical" section; "See also" (as it is now) disappeared; and "References" and "External Links" fused into some "See also" section? That would limit the number of big sections, and bring some order to sections that are really subsections at best. Or am I just getting caught up in the excitement of the improvement drive ... --Plumbago 20:25, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, you could lump some of those together in one section. Thunderbrand 21:34, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Done. I've re-organised things mostly along the lines above, though I've stuffed Cuts, Controversies and Expansions into a Miscellaneous section. Not sure if that's such a swell idea. Anyway, please edit/revert/etc. as you see fit. --Plumbago 07:55, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Another thing. When I was editing earlier today I noticed that Misplaced Pages flagged up that the article was getting to be too long again. We might miss Feature Article status if we don't pay attention to this. One way around it would be to excise the multi-player section to a separate article along the lines that's been done for weapons (i.e. a short paragraph mentioning multiplayer, with a link to the main article on the subject). The multiplayer section isn't the longest one, but as HL2DM is actually a separate program, splitting it off makes sense. There'd be a little bit of tidying up in the aftermath of the move (e.g. the "Singleplayer" section should be renamed or something). --Plumbago 11:43, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

I think too much of this is a bad thing - one of the criticims the article received when it went for featured article status was that there were too many micro sections. I would keep the multiplayer info, but get rid of (or move) the last two paragraphs which just express player's opinions. --Subtlesnake 21:18, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
I dunno where they could be moved to, but I wouldn't mind if they were gotten rid of. It seems a little POV to me. Thunderbrand 23:25, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
Well, I removed the last paragraph. Barricades only really apply to one map anyway. --Subtlesnake 19:10, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Style points

Two other things occur to me:

  • The screenshots don't do justice to HL2 (especially the hard-to-interpret Manhack one; and the rather dark Nova Prospekt one), and are distributed in a fairly ugly way through the article. Has anyone got any nicer ones? Either of combat or "beautiful vistas".
  • In the "See also" section there's a lot of "" statements because of the formatting. Does anyone mind if I re-format so that the sub-sub-section titles just become bold text?

Oh, one last thing. In the part "Notes on the narrative", it's stated that Gordon never says anything. While this seems true of HL2 (and NPCs comment on it), I always thought that Gordon "said" things in HL, but that the player just doesn't get to hear them. Otherwise the interactions with friendly NPCs don't make a lot of sense (e.g. how exactly does Gordon enlist or delist their support if he doesn't ask for it). The article on HL makes a small mention of this point too : "the player never sees or hears their own character (dialogue is handled as if Gordon responds in an appropriate manner)". Also, if Gordon really didn't say anything, I'm sure that NPCs would comment more on it. Anyway, just a thought. --Plumbago 09:36, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Just to point it out: Alyx comments on Gordon's lack of speech only a short while after you first meet her in the game. Something along the lines of "Not much of a talker, are you?" CABAL 13:10, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Yup. That's the NPC I was thinking of. However, no-one in HL makes any reference to Gordon's silence - in fact, they often say things that appear to be in response to things Gordon "says", but the player doesn't hear. And I'm sure the same is meant for HL2, despite the line from Alyx. It would be quite remarkable if no-one else were to remark on Gordon's silence.

My interpretation is that, unlike many other game protagonists, Valve wants to leave exactly what Gordon says up to the player's imagination. In most games, one quickly gets a feel for a player-character on the basis of things they say (the most obvious, and extreme, example being Duke Nukem). By not prompting the player with scripted dialogue, the player can create their own idea of Gordon and what he says.

As for Alyx, I tend to think that her reference is either a in-joke on the part of Valve re: Gordon's seeming silence, or (and obviously I favour this interpretation) that Gordon is somewhat tongue-tied by Alyx. As a caricature of the nerdy scientist (a physicist at that!), he probably hasn't had a lot of experience with attractive women. Hence the silence at that part of the game.

However, perhaps I'm over-interpreting ... --Plumbago 13:31, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

I think the manhack one is one the best screenshots (beside the Breen one). What is wrong with that one? Although I do agree the Nova Prospekt one is a bit dark. I can't take any new ones since my computer is acting up. (I had to reformat and now my DVD drive doesnt work!) Thunderbrand 15:11, August 17, 2005 (UTC)

Actually, I take that back about the manhack one - it's nice full size, but just looks a bit complicated in thumbnail (I entirely agree about the Breen one - it's great). Next time I fire up HL2, I'll try to get some shots out of it. I was thinking some nice outdoors ones would be good. --Plumbago 16:24, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

I would say it can be assumed that Gordon talks in Half-Life when he wants a scientist or security guard to follow him (or stop following him). The responses they give are in a way that suggest they're being talked to, instead of being poked with a giant "use button" stick. Nufy8 16:30, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
I just see that as him gesturing. --Subtlesnake 16:07, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
I personally liken it to games like Chrono Trigger or Dragon Quest or various other RPGs in which the main character never "speaks" (i.e. is never given dialogue) but characters react as if they had. This means that, much like in Half-Life, the story and exposition and stuff are given entirely by other characters. --Yar Kramer 17:12, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

And if you're going to include more screenshots with the weapon and HUD visible, you might want to consider using a different gun than the Pulse Rifle, so it doesn't get too repetitive. Nufy8 16:43, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Yeah. Should probably include a screen showing the gravity gun. Thunderbrand 14:39, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

And if it's holding a toilet - even better!  ;) --Plumbago 15:09, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

LOL- try not to make the pics too ridiculous.Amren 03:40, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

"Here we have an image showcasing a sanitized human-waste disposal device being employed in the status of 'The very last thing the next Combine I meet is going to see', and held aloft in preparation for hurling." How's that? CABAL 12:50, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

LOL. Now, if you can get us that screenshot CABAL ...  ;) I'll have a go at generating a few over the weekend, but will try not to go as bonkers as I did with Xen. --Plumbago 12:58, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, looking at that article you did go all out ;).Amren 17:42, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Consider including at least one screenshot featuring some actual action from Combine soldiers opening fire at the player. Better yet, have one that features the Source engine in action (such as an explosion throwing soldiers' bodies out of the way); I actually found one part where you blew up an old wooden bridge with explosive barrels (early in the Route Kanal level) a potential area to take such an image. I would also recommend obtaining a picture of the player on either the airboat or dune buggy (I find the airboat armed with the machine gun particularly suitable because we could easily take a screenshot of the gun firing large amounts of ammunition). ╫ 25 16:27, 25 August 2005 (UTC) ╫

I went back through the page history and found this one I took a while ago. Image:HL2coast.jpg I dunno if it should be re-added or not, since it just shows a bridge. Thunderbrand 19:36, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
I think we should focus on getting screenshots that show off the game's unique qualities (something like what 25 was saying), preferably if they're mentioned within the article. Nufy8 20:20, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
I agree. I have a few screenshots I like and will upload, but no combat ones (for obvious reasons - I was preoccupied). So check your Half-Life 2/Screenshots/ folder, everyone. I've uploaded Image:Half-Life 2 Dr Breen Office.jpg and Image:Half-Life 2 Nova Prospekt.jpg and rather than provide the illusion of free will, I've taken the liberty of adding the first one to the article. The second one I'm not so sure about - it's perhaps not too informative, and so I haven't added it.--Sum0 21:59, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
That Breen one you added to the article is nice. I'm not sure about the other one, as you said. We should get a couple more that show off the physics heavily. Thunderbrand 22:28, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
What about shoving the Cyrillic posters image I posted up there somewhere into the article's Settings and Theme section? CABAL 12:41, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
It seems a bit too dark. Can you take one that is brighter? Thunderbrand 14:34, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
I've replaced the file with a brighter one. Have a look. CABAL 20:30, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Gameplay section

How do we know that some of the wildlife isn't from Xen? --Subtlesnake 19:12, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Dunno. Maybe whoever put it in thought that the Combine aren't from Xen, so they said that. Maybe they also thought that the Striders and synths count as "wildlife". I'm guessing it should be removed then. Thunderbrand 19:29, August 27, 2005 (UTC)
"Wildlife"?! The damn things are mass-produced in a factory inside of the Citadel! CABAL 13:14, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
I guess that some of us (well, me anyway) think that some of the aliens (e.g. antlions) aren't from Xen because they were never seen there (unlike barnacles, houndeyes, bullsquid, headcrabs, etc.). Similarly, the Race X aliens from Opposing Force also don't appear to be from Xen, so it seems reasonable to assume that aliens from all over the place have descended on Earth.
As regards the "wildlife" comment, I don't think that's meant to mean striders, etc. Although a case could be made that they're not entirely machines. They seem to be cyborgs. --Plumbago 13:53, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

okay then maybe they are from XAN.because in the addon Redemption the mysterious Gman speaks of another race known as Xan or maybe they're from planet Combine the place for stuck up aliens? Spike Spiegle 01:44, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

City 17 in France?

Hi everyone, sorry, I'm quite new to this, so I first inserted the info and didn't discuss first. So here goes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/Image:Hl2_railway_signal_1.jpg shows the railway signal you can see when you first exit the train at the start of the game and then look to your upper half right hand side.

  • The signal screen is almost identical to today's french rw signals.
  • The "Nf" tag (non franchissable) also frequently appears on those.
  • The small shunting lamp to the lower left of the display also appears in reality, but only in stations.
  • One difference is the wrong big lamps' colors, another the fact that the "Nf" is comparatively big compared to reality.
  • No explanation for the "c 05" yet, however, in reality this doesn't seem to exist.

(A friend of mine is quite competent with french railway and he agreed that they are very, very similar. The french system is somewhat unique in europe.)

Some pics of real ones:

What do you think? Chr0n0ss 17:34, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Ah-ha. That's a bit more interesting. Would any of our Bulgarian contributors (that is, "contributors who are Bulgarian" and "contributors on all things Bulgarian") care to comment on the railway sign? Might be that "Nf" means something in Eastern Europe as well. It looks like City 17 might be a montage of Europe rather than one country after all. --Plumbago 17:38, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
There's also some Norwegian and Polish text in the game. I wouldn't put too much store in the languages, they were likely picked based on what looks good rather than where they originated. --Tom Edwards 17:44, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
Agree. But for me, the question raises: Why the distinctive french stuff, and no fantasy good looking ones... --Chr0n0ss 17:57, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
I think that's because they like to use real world material. So I'd imagine what happened is they collected various signs from different countries/locales and decided "that looks nice, lets base our signs off that one". --Subtlesnake 21:18, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

New sales figures?

Can anyone find some updates sales for Half-Life 2? All I can find is the same stuff about the 1.7 millon sales that is in the article now. I know its sold a ton more than that, becuase ever since it was released through like mid-summer, it was consistently in the top 10 PC game sales figures that I saw on IGN and other places, but I haven't seen where they have announced a total from November until now. Thunderbrand 01:49, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure there are no more sales figures. To get them you need to pay a lot of money, which is why sites just list the order of the titles, and not the figures themselves. Neither Vivendi or Valve have released any more figures AFAIK. --Subtlesnake 12:36, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

3 million. --Tom Edwards 20:36, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
Ah, thanks for that. Now it can be updated in the article. Thunderbrand 23:53, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

New stuff to do

I've been talking with K1Bond007 on what to do to fix this article up a bit more. He'll be helping with it some and so will I. To see a list of what to do, just go to my talk page. This is just a short list of what to do now; I'm sure there are some other things that need fixed up. And by the way, I took out that screenshot because it really doesn't show much and isn't a good shot in general. Thunderbrand 15:31, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

I put the maps in a table. I think there are more, but i forget...I haven't played DM in a while. If there are any more, feel free to add them. I just looked at the map table on the Day of Defeat article, so if a new column needs added, just look there on how to. Thunderbrand 15:50, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Are all these 'official' maps? First, I don't think they need their own section. Within the multiplayer section should suffice. But if these are official maps then I think we should note this to stave off anonymous user #9678 from coming along and adding his/her name to the list and map they created or whatever. I can see this becoming a problem. I've only played DM a handful of times so I really don't know much about it. K1Bond007 16:40, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Speaking of maps, should the mapping contest for HL2 DM be mentioned? Nufy8 17:51, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure they are official. The ones that won the contest were put in the regular rotation (servers that just use official maps.) The contest probably could be mentioned, but just a sentence should do it. Thunderbrand 20:07, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Valve bought the maps from their makers, which doubled as their prize money, as is standard practice for adopted content. --Tom Edwards 07:21, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Comparison with TV's V

Maybe a comparison between Half-Life 2 and V could be made. Example similarities:

  • 1. Foreign invaders purport to be allies
  • 2. Human-run "enforcement" groups are set up
  • 3. Invaders have control over the media
  • 4. Aliens want to take over the planet while draining Earth's water (well, in early HL² drafts)
  • 5. Scientists are the backbone to the resistance group
  • 6. A simple symbol is used by freedom fighters (original, huh?)
  • 7. Character named Elias (okay, that is a long shot)
  • 8. One of the resistance fighters betrays the group (an even longer shot, I know)

Joshtek 02:34, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

I dunno. I was even thinking of taking the comparison between it and Nineteen Eighty-Four out, since it was one of the main gripes of why this article didn't become a featured one. I fear if we keep adding comparisons, it will be too cluttered. Part of what you listed above seem kind of vague and could fit a lot of other forms of games, movies, etc. Thunderbrand 02:39, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
I'd consider removing it unless someone can provide credible references to cite this information. Otherwise, it and the comparison to V (above in this discussion) obviously falls under original research, which is bad. K1Bond007 04:50, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, I think I might unless there is a lot of objection. No where in the Rasing the Bar book does it say that they specifically referred to Ninteen Eighty-Four or any website that I know of. Thunderbrand 13:26, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
Fair enough. Comparisons can be dropped until we find some proper research. Joshtek 15:44, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

The home stretch

The article is just about done being cleaned up. I would like everyone to give the page a good read and see if anything was missed or any links need fixed up. Also, K1Bond007 said there should be a couple more references in the article. I'll try to find some but anyone else can help too. Thunderbrand 15:23, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

I fixed the GameSpot reference. It was actually a dead link, but it works now. After re-reading the lead paragraph, does anyone thing that the words "ground-breaking" are too POV? In many ways, the game is, but I also read the GameSpot review and they said it wasn't ground breaking, but as in any review, its one person's opinion. Thoughts? Thunderbrand 15:53, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm sure you can find several sources that call it ground-breaking (or something similar) and just make sure to cite them. Nufy8 16:52, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
I changed it to the more generic "advancements", so it sounds a little better. There is one more thing bugging me: the Half-Life 2 controversies and criticisms link under "Further reading". To me, it seems like its relegated at the bottom and nothing is written about it. I'm afraid that someone will bring it up when under FAC. Although in some parts of the article it mentions some criticism about the storyline. Should there be a summary about it or not? Thunderbrand 21:06, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
I think it's fine. There was a section for this earlier that was absolutely pointless so I moved it there. Either leave it alone or work it into the intro or a part of the article on the game's release - probably under Steam. K1Bond007 21:49, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
I guess I'll leave it alone. The reason I keep pointing out stuff is that I'm nervous. Thunderbrand 22:12, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
Fix as they, if they, object. I really don't think this is that big of a deal and a crappy sentence such as "HL2 has many controversies and critcisms" won't do the article justice. Note: this is almost the exact line we had before when I moved it and to Further reading. K1Bond007 22:21, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
I've submitted it for FAC. Let's hope it goes well. Thunderbrand 04:50, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, yet again the article didn't make it. I thought it had a really good chance, but I guess not. Looking at it now, it seems like a fine article and should be a Featured Article. A couple of the oppose votes I thought were really baseless (especially the "problem" over the Breen image). Anyway, I won't be trying again for a 3rd time, not for a while, maybe never. If sometime in the future someone else wants to submit it again then that's fine with me. As long as someday it is promoted I don't care who does it, because I know its a good article and the pieces are there. Anyway, I thank everyone who helped so far. Thunderbrand 01:35, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, some of the problems people had were just nitpicks. My problem with FAC is that most of the people supporting/opposing don't actually read the articles. I hate to use an example, but I'll do it anyway: the "problem with the images" - he obviously didn't take the time to read the article. Maybe he skimmed it, but he didn't actually "read" it - same for the guy who wanted to know where the "leaked source code" information was. Hell that was mentioned and linked in the intro. Sad. All the pieces are there for this article as you stated. Just wait a while, tinker with the page a little, and resubmit. No big deal. K1Bond007 03:46, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
I suppose so. The things they listed that aren't in the article, like awards, can easily be put in, although there was actually an "Awards" section but got too big and was removed. Thunderbrand 15:02, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Half-Life2/awards. :-) --Tom Edwards 15:47, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Limit it to the most influential awards to keep the size down. This article is great, but, except for one, nothing was really done to address people's objections at all. Some of the objections could eaily have been fixed. For example, three lines added to the release section about the game's delay due to a souce code leak with the appropriate wikilinks and an explanation to the objector about how more detail is located in the sub-articles could very well have satisfied James Pinnell's objection. Also you could have tried going half-way with Carnildo's objection about the images. Fair Use images should be used sparingly and removing one or two and explaining why you feel the others should stay could have been productive compromise. MechBrowman 17:43, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
Well I still disagree. He essentially objected to the entire article because of one image that he never gave a good reason for wanting to remove. First he said it wasn't discussed. It was discussed. Then he said it wasn't important. It is. We shouldn't have to compromise by removing an image for the sake of removing an image. No other article has been held to these criteria where one more image that is relevant and discussed is too much (ex. Doom, Super Mario 64, Wario - then count films and other similar featured articles) etc. Just wait.. we'll resubmit sometime in the future with the same images and no one will say a thing. Oh well.. as I said, we'll fix it up more and resubmit in the future. It's no big deal. K1Bond007 19:16, 17 October 2005 (UTC)