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General

Wiktionary user

Note: wikt:User:Primetime came here as Primetime after being blocked indefinitely from Wiktionary for persistent and flagrant copyright violations and sockpuppetry. He continued his antics here and was eventually banned by Jimbo Wales, but he still lurks through the use of sockpuppets and open proxies. For more details see Misplaced Pages:Long term abuse/Primetime.

The Wiktionary:User:Primetime (apparently corresponding to User:Primetime here) was indefinitely blocked this year on the English Wiktionary for massive, systemic copyright violations. His primary sources were Webster's third new international dictionary, unabridged, by Merriam-Webster, Inc. and The Oxford Dictionary of English (2nd edition revised) (using either the on-line edition or a CD-ROM version - the specific version remains unclear for a portion of his entries.)

The main Wiktionary discussion can be found here: wikt:Wiktionary: Beer parlour archive/January-March_06#Primetime. In his own defense, he relied on bizarre personal attacks, personal threats and repetitious flagrant lies (perhaps in the hope that repeating a certain lie over and over again would make it somehow become truth.)

For over a month now, he has used many sockpuppets on the English Wiktionary, confirmed by checkuser(!) request on meta:. Only the most recent batch of sockpuppets is listed on the meta page. He has become our single most assiduous vandal, recently prompting an automated block of some 6,000+ IP addresses used by the Tor anonymity network.

His signature vandalism patterns alternate between massive rudimentary copyright violations, and bombarding Wiktionary with massive quantites of unattested vulgar terminology.

His copyright-vandalism today on the English Wiktionary (via a new sockpuppet that he created some time ago, in preparation) was first traced to the Misplaced Pages entry for J, where has been steadily, incrementally adding content. It is apparent to me, that he is using a 'bot to upload material here on Misplaced Pages just as he used to on Wiktionary, as several tell-tale signs are in each of his entries. It is my personal theory that he is using 'bot technology to split apart his edits, so that no single edit triggers a VandalBot "copyright" warning on the anti-vandalism channels.

I hereby request assistance from all Misplaced Pages sysops in chasing down this prolific individual's copyright violations (here on Misplaced Pages, as well as on Wiktionary - as many entries on Wiktionary still have not been cleaned adequately.) I am somewhat unfamiliar with Misplaced Pages policies regarding copyright violation. But I cannot imagine that such systemic, wholesale copying is condoned here.

--Connel MacKenzie 07:34, 8 May 2006 (UTC) (Wiktionary sysop; please leave messages on my talk page there.)

Here is a bit of advice to anyone who reads this: check carefully everything Connel MacKenzie says. He has been known to exaggerate greatly at times. This is a very complex, personal dispute between him and I. Unfortunately, I do not possess the knowledge to use "bots". (And, what does this have to do with Misplaced Pages?) I don't know what you mean by "vandalism," either. I've had some content disputes with you. I admit I moved some material I wrote here to Wiktionary, all of which you apparently deleted on sight. The autoblocker blocked my IP for a short time, so I was able to get a new user name (something suggested to me by Tawker in a public discussion). I created about 5 vulgar entries on Wiktionary which Connel MacKenzie deleted on sight (even though Wiktionary is not censored--supposedly--and they all had citations). So, that's hardly the "massive quantites" you're describing. Really, this is not relevant to Misplaced Pages at all. The reason I remain blocked is very complex but can be boiled down to three factors: (1) personal attacks, (2) evading my block, and (3) alleged copyright violation. Now, Connel MacKenzie is going through everything I ever created on Wiktionary (I made about 1172 edits) and reverting or deleting it on the unproven assumption that it's all copyvio material. Connel MacKenzie is a very bitter person. He's had more disputes on Wiktionary than any other user. Now he's the person who banned all of those accounts and he's the only one still complaining about me. The fact he is even bringing up such a matter here shows even greater malice on his part, in my opinion. If he were editing on Misplaced Pages, he would have been banned a while ago. However, there's no real formal dispute resolution process on Wiktionary, so he can just continue acting the way he does and no one can do anything about it.--Primetime 10:24, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Primetime! I could not have asked for a better demonstration of your immediate tactics of 1) resorting to invalid personal attacks, and 2) bold, flagrant lies. --Connel MacKenzie 01:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I find this dispute worrisome because it may have affected Wikpedia administration. I recently nominated "List of ethnic slurs" for AfD, due chiefly for its apparent violation of WP:NOT . Primetime argued eloquently, effectively, and somewhat duplicitously (as I've said to him) against its transwikification to Wiktionary. Primetime had said that Wiktionary editors were intolerant, and would not accept the material. This report describes additional aspects to the matter. I don't know if the claim by Connel MacKenzie has merit or not, but Wiktionary is a sister project and we should work in a coordinated fashion. -Will Beback 11:01, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Please note that Primetime's indefinite block on Wiktionary was approved after a decision made by the community. It was not even issued by Connel MacKenzie . Now Connel is indeed a very active contributor and sysop on Wiktionary, probably among our best (if there's such a thing as "the best" on a wiki), who's not afraid of discussion, some arguments in which he is a party indeed evolving into what one might arguably call a "dispute". That is, however, of no relevance here, and has more to do with the argumentative nature of the English Wiktionary. Primetime, though, has never conformed to the rules that apply to Wiktionary, and he and his host of sockpuppets have been banned from Wiktionary by the community, for the reasons given above by Connel. The majority of his former contributions have either been deleted (by a variety of sysops, not just Connel), or rephrased in order to eliminate the copyright violations originally entered by Primetime. New admissions from his part, once they have been identified as being Primetime's, are being deleted on sight (by a variety of sysops, not just Connel or me) due to his long-standing tradition of proven copyright violations. Vildricianus 18:56, 8 May 2006 (UTC) (Wiktionary sysop).

First, there was a discussion where the editors participating came upon agreement that my most-recent creations, created on three nights in March and January would be deleted. (See wikt:Wiktionary: Beer parlour archive/January-March_06#Primetime). Further, my most-recent contributions were already trying to be deleted or had already been deleted when some discovered that they were from me. Others no one ever found out were from me were deleted as well. Further, those didn't look anything like the single-phrase definitions they were complaining about for copyvios. When Connel MacKenzie did a checkuser on some accounts, he immediately deleted the remainder. He never did a checkuser on the accounts he blocked last night, though. Here's an explanation of why they were already trying to delete them:

Some editors have interpreted Wiktionary's criteria for inclusion as meaning that a single reliable source is enough to prove a word's usage. Others, however, say that only three quotations will suffice, despite the fact that the page states that "Usage in a well-known work" qualifies as proof. These same editors claim that other dictionaries do not count. To many Misplaced Pages users accustomed to citing disputed assertions with a single source, having to give three sources is upsetting and unwelcoming. Many entries have been deleted because they had only one or two sources.

Knowing the anarchic atmosphere of Wiktionary and the propensity of certain administrators to use these unusually-high standards to delete offensive terms, I created six entries with three quotes per sense and with full source information for each quote. (See Wiktionary:WT:RFD#nigger_baby.) Then a user named Jonathan Webley nominated each of them for deletion saying "I can't find these terms anywhere else". Shortly afterward, Connel MacKenzie chimed in saying "This series of anonymous submissions seems intentionally disruptive, and pointlessly inflammatory. Delete all. These are certainly no more than the sum of their parts (each submission) with a clear intent to enter as many forms as can be dredged up, and to bypass the comparatively neutral, explanatory entry at nigger." Then, another administrator deleted them and protected the pages. His assertion that they were the sum of their parts is an example of an exaggeration by MacKenzie as "Blue-eyed grass (genus Sisyrinchium), especially California blue-eyed grass, S. bellum" was not the sum of the phrase "nigger baby". Another example is this: wiktionary:WT:RFV#shit_stabber. I had three quotes and a dictionary reference for that one. Here's another one: Wiktionary:WT:RFV#give me fin on the soul side. Editors there have a tendency to delete terms they don't like on sight (See this entry that had a reference to a slang dictionary, but was deleted anyway the first time. When I recreated it, he nominated it for verification, then deleted it again when he found out it was from me.) As for "give me fin on the soul side" I had two quotes and a dictionary citation. They deleted it anyway, but I had it saved on my hard drive, so I recreated it. Then, they said two quotes and a dictionary references weren't enough, so I added more, for 3 quotes and 5 citations. Connel still wanted to delete it anyway, which shows his deceptive and bitter nature.

As everyone can tell, Vildicranius is good friends with Connel MacKenzie--even though Vildicranius is pretty new. However, Connel MacKenzie has been known to harass other users. On the Beer Parlour (their equivalent of the Village Pump) he had at least three discussion threads raised against him by Ncik: wrap link, wrap link2 even though I had been there only since November. He went after Ncik, who he chased away apparently, Eclecticology, then me. I'm sure there were others, though.

In conlcusion, I'm a financial donor to Wikimedia, so if I believed that something would harm our wikis, I wouldn't do it. On Misplaced Pages, I fight vandalism (I have over 830 pages on my watchlist) and try to be civil. I've worked countless hours, and have 3759 edits on Misplaced Pages under this user name as well as 366 under others. I tend to use Show preview and focus on articles, so the tally doesn't tell much, either. However, on Wiktionary, it's harder to get along. Many Misplaced Pages policies, such as the Three Revert Rule and No Personal Attacks are not policies on Wiktionary. To some users from Misplaced Pages, this makes the site seem like it is anarchic, and makes many administrator decisions seem arbitrary, as well. Everyone knows each other, so you either become good friends or really bad enemies.--Primetime 20:06, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Interestingly, that last bit and this sound quite alike. And your palaver about being a financial donor is also recognizable. Same old tricks, Primetime. Vildricianus 22:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely. I've said it before, and I need to say it again. Everything I just said is all true. Everyone should read what I just wrote. As for my donation, go here: --I listed my user name in the comment column.--Primetime 22:58, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Let's cut through a lot of noise: Primetime, do you deny that on Wiktionary you copied defintions from existing dictionaries?

A quick look through your contributions here (at least ones highlighted on your user page) raise red flags, too. Take John Abbey, which you created with:

(Born Whilton, Northants., Dec. 22, 1785; Died Versailles, Feb. 19, 1859). English organ builder. The son of a local joiner, he first learnt his father's trade. Against family opinion he was apprenticed while still in his youth to the organ builder James Davis and later joined in partnership with Hugh Russell...

We have the idiosyncratic, non-Misplaced Pages style of beginning, the fully-formed sentences, and, most peculiarly for an American contributor, the British usage of "learnt" -- which you changed in subsequent edits over the next hour. My guess is Britannica, but I have a friend who owns a copy, so I"ve asked him to check. --Calton | Talk 20:41, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. You can also search the introductions for each entry for free online. As you can see here: <http://www.britannica.com/search?query=John+Abbey&ct=>, there is no entry. As for formatting, I hate Misplaced Pages formatting because it is not in keeping with style recommendations of writers. For example, above, I did not give the link as this because I think it looks unintuitive and doesn't tell the reader where they're going.--Primetime 20:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I hate Misplaced Pages formatting because it is not in keeping with style recommendations of writers.' Really? What "style recommendations of writers" are you referring to? What possible applicability do these "style recommendations of writers" have for THIS project? And what about these "style recommendations of writers" gives you an exemption from the Misplaced Pages Manual of Style? --Calton | Talk 23:15, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

This is another debate, but I tend to follow styling guidelines of style manuals like Merriam-Webster's Manual for Writer's and Editors as well as Random-House's style guide. I also imitate for experimentation purposes several innovations, like enlarging the headword a point or two. I have had several disagreements and have explained myself in detail on why I don't always follow Misplaced Pages guidelines. Examples include pronunciation aids, as well as links.--Primetime 00:28, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Can you clarify where the article came from? Is it all your own original writing or is copied from another source? -Will Beback 23:10, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

To repeat, let's cut through a lot of noise: Primetime, do you deny that on Wiktionary you copied definitions from existing dictionaries? Can you affirm that the text I quoted above is all your own? What was the source of your information? --Calton | Talk 23:15, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

It is not copied from anywhere. I wrote most of my contributions. Many were written as school reports. Others are from the 1911 edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica. Some are reports I wrote for my classes at school.--Primetime 00:28, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

This article, Reinhard Sorge , also appears to be copied from another source. If it isn't then it is a severe violation of WP:NOT as it includes extensive literary criticism. -Will Beback 23:30, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Now that's strange: that list of articles on on User:Primetime's page, which listed the articles he says he was principal contributer to? The one I browsed checking for copying? Primetime has suddenly removed them . Why would that be? --Calton | Talk 00:13, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm tired of you guys going through each of my contributions and picking them apart. I don't have time for that.--Primetime 00:29, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Man, I'm slow: that list I mentioned? One of the entries is for the Dictionary of Literary Biography -- and the article includes an external link to a site which provides short versions of some of the articles. Looking up Reinhard Sorge...Hmm, do these look familiar?

Reinhard Johannes Sorge (January 29, 1892-July 20, 1916) is considered one of the earliest expressionist dramatists in Germany. Although his death on the battlefield in World War I put an abrupt end to an all-too-brief six-year period of intensive literary productivity, Sorge, who was only twenty-four years old at the time of his death, achieved recognition as one of Germany's foremost religious playwrights and poets, one whose poetic mission was inspired by his fervent quest for God and by an ecstatic mystical faith. Sorge's protagonists are either projections of his own self into a dramatic character who combines the role of the writer as leader and healer with that of the prophet and seeker of God's truth, or personal interpretations of key figures in the history of Christianity such as King David, Saint Francis of Assisi, and Martin Luther. None of his plays was performed during his lifetime. (from Primetime's version

Reinhard Johannes Sorge is considered one of the earliest expressionist dramatists in Germany. Although his death on the battlefield in World War I put an abrupt end to an all-too-brief six-year period of intensive literary productivity, Sorge, who was only twenty-four years old at the time of his death, achieved recognition as one of Germany's foremost religious playwrights and poets, one whose poetic mission was inspired by his fervent quest for God and by an ecstatic mystical faith. Sorge's protagonists are either projections of his own self into a dramatic character who combines the role of the writer as leader and healer with that of the prophet and seeker of God's truth, or personal interpretations of key figures in the history of Christianity such as King David, Saint Francis of Assisi, and Martin Luther. None of his plays was performed during his lifetime. From the BookRags site

Busted. --Calton | Talk 00:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

OK. I admit that it's from the DLB. That doesn't mean that everything I've ever written is a copyvio, though. Most of the articles I've written aren't even about writers.--Primetime 00:28, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Another quick check: N. Scott Momaday (here versus here)...do I need to continue? Your long-winded rationale is pure misdirection, and while it's, I'm sure, literally true that not EVERYTHING you've ever written is stolen, it's enough to presume it's true unless you provide evidence to the contrary. --Calton | Talk 00:39, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

STOP! WHAT DO YOU MEAN? ARE YOU PROPOSING THE DELETION OF EVERYTHING I'VE EVER WRITTEN BECAUSE OF THOSE TWO ENTRIES??? WHAT PROOF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO PROVE THAT THEY'RE NOT FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE! WHY ARE YOU GOING AFTER ME SO HARD?--Primetime 00:41, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Those first two entries are what I found sitting at my desk, from my computer, after only a few minutes work and without breaking a sweat. Imagine what I could do if I went down to the local university library and actually search in their hard-copy of Britannica, Grove's, DLB, Current Biography, etc. --Calton | Talk 00:50, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

A message on my talk page: ...Also, why are you doing this? You know that Misplaced Pages isn't liable for copyright violations that it isn't aware are occurring? There's absolutely no reason to be doing this! This is perhaps the most pathetic rationale for copyright abuse I've seen in a long time -- but more to the point, we are aware now. You've been busted: deal with it. --Calton | Talk 00:50, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

• Throw Fyodor Sologub (here versus here on the list. Man, this may take a co-ordinated effort to root out. --Calton | Talk 01:13, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Update

Primetime (talk · contribs) has been indefinitely blocked by Jimbo Wales hisownself (see here). Note also that Primetime has resorted to sockpuppets to add back what's been deleted (see Category:Suspected_Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Primetime) and has gone admin-shopping (see here) seeking to reverse deletions of his additions. --Calton | Talk 05:04, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I see the category here on Misplaced Pages is redlinked. Today's latest English Wiktionary "Primetime" sockpuppet: wikt:User:Yurejkf (kindly self-identified in this comment.) I hope Misplaced Pages is better at staying on top of these than we are at Wiktionary. --Connel MacKenzie 04:54, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Just a name change - I've fixed it now. Thanks for the heads up. -Will Beback 05:52, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

There also is Category:Misplaced Pages:Sock puppets of Primetime, resulting from today's slander from Primetime? --Connel MacKenzie 18:47, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Renamed to Category:Misplaced Pages sockpuppets of Primetime. -- ADNghiem501 20:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Increasing (desperate) personal attacks. Does WP have a more appropriate place for ongoing, long-term vandalism of this sort? --Connel MacKenzie 01:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Long term abuse Ashibaka tock 23:39, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. In the meantime: Jhyt50 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). --Connel MacKenzie 22:38, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I've added Misplaced Pages:Long term abuse/Primetime. --Connel MacKenzie 13:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

It appears that Primetime used to be called Rickyboy (talk · contribs), and was blocked indefinitely in July 2005. -Will Beback 06:55, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

From his talk page Besides, even if they were violations of copyright law, they would still be justified because people shouldn't have to pay to learn things -- huh, exactly the nonsensical reasoning Primetime employs. --Calton | Talk 13:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Also User:Richardr443, of Letter writing fame. In retrospect, that article was clearly plagiarized, and perhaps a copyright violation. -Will Beback 07:59, 8 June 2006 (UTC) (Now confirmed- copied verbatim from World Book. -Will Beback 12:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC))

Ooh, lovely, I remember him very well. I blocked the Ricky accounts indefinitely, in case he had any designs on reusing them. Dmcdevit·t 08:12, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I wonder if Colorado State Univeristy would like to know that they seem to be harboring a prolific plagarist? --Connel MacKenzie 13:40, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

And in case it merits mentioning, Primetime has added my email address to a dozen or more spam sites, and has ordered junk mail to the home address of another editor. This fellow seems to believe in unrestricted combat. -Will Beback 12:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry to hear that, and I'm suddenly glad I didn't respond to him through e-mail. --Calton | Talk 13:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I left a "Be On the Lookout" warning on Talk:Oxford English Dictionary, where his latest sockpuppet -- Ftym67 (talk · contribs) -- was trying to convince the editors there that the OED is public-domain and A-Okay to copy from. Not that anyone there seemed to be buying it, but I thought a warning was in order. --Calton | Talk 14:02, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd appreciate it if Misplaced Pages admins would review/copyedit wikt:Wiktionary:Blocking policy#2006/06/08 (the letter I will soon send to abuse@CSU) to verify I've not overstepped any inter-project boundaries. --Connel MacKenzie 15:35, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

I did send this, about two hours ago. They seem to have begun their own investigation now. On another note: Give seem to have retained the copyvio material from the OED still, perhaps after a page move? --Connel MacKenzie 22:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone have sufficient Spanish-language skills to pursue this matter on Es.Misplaced Pages? He's known there as "Principal Tiempo". I found one instance of plagiarism/copying (from Grolier's Spanish edition). However a user named "Mahadeva" is reverting - he may be a sock or just a clueless editor. Any help would be apprecieted. Gracias, -Will Beback 06:32, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Clearly a Sock, Principal Tiempo means Primetime in english. Thanks Jaranda 07:02, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

The spanish wikipedia is dealing with it. Thanks Jaranda 07:23, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

So many people that I have bad feelings about turn out to be trolls, strange...maybe all the hours spend here are making me hyper-perceptive :).Voice-of-All 07:33, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocked in the spanish wikipedia indef by User:Taichi who discovered two copyvios. Thanks Jaranda 07:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Currently using Scaurus (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log). --Rory096 05:21, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocked. --Rory096 05:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Sock blocked -- Tawker 05:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

This is worth noting:

• It doesn't matter, though, because you cannot win. I have learned how to automate much of my copying and formatting of text. Soon, I will make Misplaced Pages larger than your wildest imaginations.--Primetime 01:11, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

It sounds like he has plans for more mischief. -Will Beback 09:07, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you can get Daniel Brandt to reveal the guy causing this trouble, then (possily even legal) action can be taken appropriately.

Unsigned comment 03:13, June 14, 2006

• Couldn't one of Misplaced Pages's CheckUsers find and perma-block each of the open proxies he is using to create new accounts? --Connel MacKenzie 17:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
  • On it, see Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Primetime. --Rory096 03:25, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

J is unprotected now, but nothing in the past 2 days... Maybe the range blocks are working. --Rory096 14:32, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

perhaps this Tyrn5 (talk • contribs • count) is him back ? - Peripitus (Talk) 11:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocked indef. Hmm, wasn't there another section here before? --Rory096 03:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

There still is. (The section before this one.) Just that it's now refactored into one paragraph. Kimchi.sg 02:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Why is this material being removed?

I was wondering why half of the article "j" is being blanked? There are pictures on the talk page showing that the material is from a publication in the public domain and it was cited. Further, the material was added before any block was imposed on the author. The people removing the content have refused to explain why they are doing so. They just say, "reverting probable Primetime sockpuppet," or "reverting edits . . ." as if that makes it OK. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plant2j (talk • contribs) 01:28, 21 June 21 2006 (UTC)

The above was posted by a Primetime sockpuppet... Sasquatch t|c 01:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Sigh. Add Djf2006 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) to the list. --Calton | Talk 03:54, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

And Tyrn5 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) --Rory096 05:36, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Wait, someone already said that. I need sleep. --Rory096 05:37, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Santa's reindeer

I have no idea where to take this, so I'm trying here. A user has created an individual page for each of Santa's reindeer. Frankly I have no idea what to do with this. I was thinking NN until I realized that they really are notable. Chances are more people have heard of Prancer the Reindeer than Yukiji Asaoka. The question is - do they really deserve individual pages? --Bachrach44 14:02, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know how encyclopedic it is, but i'm seriously about to fall out of my chair laughing at the sheer number of edits this person has done on the subject, its REALLY funny. I would say that you should group them together and take them to AFD for discussion there. Batman2005 00:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

The reason there are so many edits is because I am new to editing not because I am crazy about reindeer. This is like a test project for me to see how far my editing skills can go. --Merond e 18:48, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

The more I think about it, the more I think they are notable. The question is whether they really deserve seperate articles or not. I'm gonna send a message to the creator essentially asking him if he actually has enough info to warrant seperate articles, but to be frank our standards for encyclopedic in nature have dropped so much over the last year or so that my eventualist tendencies are saying we should keep them. --Bachrach44 21:26, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Filling wikipedia with one liner articles like these, and also on some presidential pets is really a bad idea. All these info could easily be summarized in articles like "Santa's reindeers", List of United States Presidential pets. I really can't see how it is possible, without doing originalr research, to create a non-stub article on each of the reindeers, and each of US presidential pets. Merging them all into a single article on each topic should be done. Thanks. --Ragib 21:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Here's my thoughts. I realize how it might be more essential to merge the pages, but I would like until the 14th to try to find enought information on them to make them more than stubs and to make them separate enough from each other. If I cannot accomplish that, then yes, merging will be required. Can you grant me that time? --Merond e 10:30, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

As the great MTV Celebrity Death Match Referee/Judge Mills Lane would say "I'll allow it." Batman2005 03:00, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok. Thanks for allowing me this time. Now I just have to take the information I have and work it into articles to see if it looks good. If it does I'll post it and you can see what you think. If it doesn't look good to me or you we can merge the articles. --Merond e 10:59, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to butt in here and congratulate Merond e for being a civil editor. Good job. ~Chris _{Don't be evil.} 17:15, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

User:C-c-c-c

Initial review

We have an ongoing problem with articles related to the Balkans, and some users from the Balkans. Details of problems with Bormalagurski are above and here, and I've just blocked User:C-c-c-c for a month, because of this. That might seem over the top, but it's the seventh block in a month, and part of a pattern of extreme pro-Serbian POV pushing from that particular user, and abuse of anyone who objects to it, or tries to deal with troublesome editors. I've also removed various "userboxes" from C-c-c-c's page, which promote various Serbian nationalist positions (including a huge one saying "Kosovo is Serbia" - for British editors, think of a huge box with a union jack in it, saying "Londonderry is British"). I'd welcome other admins looking at the situation, and comments on the possibility of a community ban for this user. I am not, before anyone starts, an Albanian. I have no strongly held opinions on any of the various Balkan nations. --ajn (talk) 09:02, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

His username is also the acronym for a fascist nationalist slogan. - FrancisTyers · 09:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava, "Only unity can save the Serbs" - FrancisTyers · 09:32, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

As for the slogan, it is nationalist, but not that nationalist. It is central part of official coat of arms of Serbia, as can be seen here (central part contains 4 eses). Apart from that, I support Andrews actions fully. But I must warn everybody to act with extreme caution not to act like whole Serbian nation is fascist. We must focus on radical editors which disrupt Misplaced Pages with their actions. Regartless if they are Serbians, Albanians or Croatians. I do feel User:C-c-c-c is overy radical and should be delt with, but "Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava" is not the problem (for British editors, think of "God Save the Queen" ;-) ). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dijxtra (talk • contribs) 13:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

And we all know the next line....  :)) - FrancisTyers · 14:03, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Dijxtra. I am not for one moment suggesting that the whole Serbian nation supports this sort of extremism, or that Serbs are the only people who are editing Misplaced Pages to promote an extreme nationalist point of view. --ajn (talk) 14:47, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

This has actually gone a bit too far... Even his unblock request was removed. He has been "good" lately, he wasn't even being nationalist at all. And I don't even know why anyone at all brings up extremism, when that's not the case. It seems as though this was a personal attack aimed at him. And now he is blocked indefinitely. Congrats. --Krytan talk 18:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Community ban

• In regard of your suggestion of a community ban, I support such an idea. - FrancisTyers · 11:45, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
• I concur. --Dijxtra 13:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
• Me three. We really have sort of a war starting on Misplaced Pages, and I don't see much (or any) good faith coming from this user. We don't need users who, despite trying to reason with them, only come to wikipedia to push their POV and use it as a cheap political BBS. --dcabrilo 16:34, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
• Concur, there are a lot of editors making a battlefield out of our Serbia pages and blocking him would be a good start towards solving that problem. Ashibaka tock 17:00, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
• I don't know if I can vote, but I agree. He made battlefield (in meat-puppet cooperation with user:Bormalagurski) of some croatian pages too (althoug not recently). I'm ready to help reduce vandalism on Serbian pages, if needed, but I hope we can deal with anti-croatian vandals afterwords. --Ante Perkovic 17:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
• I object to a permanent ban and would suggest instead a probationary period with a self-imposed block on any Croatian-related articles. Though I cannot condone User:C-c-c-c's reaction and personal attack on User:Andrew Norman, I believe that a last chance should be given to this user. I would also like to remind you that there are many other users editing Balkan subjects with a far worse civility problem (eg. User:Hipi Zhdripi, who threatened to kill User:HolyRomanEmperor's family amongst other things, including systematic sockpuppetry) and have been still left off easily. Regarding the nationalist userboxes, me and another wikipedian have indeed brought to User:Andrew Norman's attention that this is a sadly very common problem. All I can just say that User:C-c-c-c's are certainly not the only ones out there. Maybe, linking the permanent removal of these userboxes to a probation could be a constructive solution. Best regards, --E Asterion 21:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Would support an indef ban on User:Hipi Zhdripi, I don't understand why he was unbanned. Regarding nationalist userboxes, get community endorsement then be bold! :) - FrancisTyers · 22:21, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

The trouble with that would be that a "self-imposed block on any Croatian-related articles" would mean a ban. He has hardly ever edited any article unrelated to the Balkans, apart from requests for people to do his Physics homework. That, to me, is one of the chief signs that he's here with an agenda (he is, lest we forget, a Canadian). Interiot's tool says he has 110 edits to articles, 105 to article talk, 431 to user/user talk, and 110 to the Misplaced Pages namespace. Again, not an indication to me that he's here for the right reasons - if he wants to chat to people, he can use IRC. --ajn (talk) 11:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

• "Community bans" are not, despite repeated attempts by some people, imposed by a few of the more brutal admins putting their hand up and shouting "ban", "ban", "ban", and the section by then being 10 from the bottom and ignored. They grow from the fact that, once an editor is indefinitely blocked and (presumably) appeals said block that "not one of the 915 administrators is prepared to unblock them". Generally, this manifests itself as a series of escalating blocks that do not teach the necessary lessons and the exhaustion of patience comes when it becomes clear that no length of block will remove the problem and no admin thinks the problem is either curable or live-with-able. They need not necessarily do so: some editors are removed and noone cares (or even notices), but clearly that's not the case in this type of situation. A community ban of this present kind does not spring forth fully formed; it comes into being when it turns out there is nothing else for there to be. They are sociological constructs borne of a fading hope of anything ever getting better, not the rejected Misplaced Pages:Quickpolls that these kinds of requests quite distinctly are. -Splash - tk 00:21, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree with your definition of "community ban". If anyone wants to unblock him with probation, per Asterion's suggestion, I won't be troubled. Ashibaka tock 00:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
  • He is not, at the moment, community-banned. I banned blocked him for a month, as a result of a series of bans blocks by different admins for exactly the same behaviour (abuse, disruption, sockpuppetry, trolling, etc). There are various opinions about the method for community-banning, the ArbCom has ducked out of ruling on how to interpret the conflicting policies, and I feel the best way is to establish consensus here prior to a ban. I'm satisfied there's no such consensus. --ajn (talk) 11:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
    • No, you blocked him for a month. There is a key difference. A block is technical, a ban is sociological. A ban is implemented with a block. -Splash - tk 14:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
      • My mistake. --ajn (talk) 14:37, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

• I agree with Asterion - there should be a probation period. I might add to his note on User:Hipi Zhdirpi, that he would've been blocked eternally long ago if this case was used... (by the way, could someone assess him?) --HolyRomanEmperor 09:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I'll be looking into one or two of the other names suggested to me, when I have the time. --ajn (talk) 11:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
  • If you want to impose probation on an unwilling victim, you cannot reasonably expect them to abide by it. Admins have no binding authority, and 'defying' an admin's fairly arbitrary decision is hardly grounds for a block, thus enforcing such decisions basically not possible. You need ArbCom if you want to restrict an editors editing without actually having them banned by acclamation. -Splash - tk 14:10, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
• I am aware of that. This is why I asked for a self-block on Croatian-related articles. This will show whether C-c-c-c is truly willing to make an effort and will help him to gain experience on other areas. Obviously, it is not enforceable but it would be obvious there is a problem if he goes on edit-warring immediately after the block is lifted. That would be classed as disruption. Whatever is decided here, someone would need to inform the user or discuss the issue as, being currently blocked, he would be unable to comment here. Regards, --E Asterion 19:04, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
  • • What can be done, however, is to insist on strict adherence to policy. There is normally a certain amount of latitude in behaviour given to anyone here, and if that latitude has been abused, what admins can do is insist that people behave absolutely according to the rules, and to back that up with protections and/or blocks, until the message sinks in. Admins do effectively have binding authority, if they are not behaving so egregiously that another admin objects. That's not the way I'd prefer things to be - I'd like clearer, quicker and more democratic processes for dealing with this sort of thing - but that's the way it is. --ajn (talk) 14:37, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

If there is a serious problem with this guy's edits, but no consensus for a community ban, try Arbitration. --Tony Sidaway 15:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

If we would go for an arbitration, I think we should go with one very broad case. Include other problematic Croatian, Kosovar and Serbian editors (most notably already mentioned User:Hipi Zhdripi, but i could think of 3-4 other names). And get rid of disruptive forms of radical and extremist nationalism, if ArbCom feels there are grounds for that. Just a thought. --Dijxtra 18:32, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I would support that too. --E Asterion 19:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Agree. - FrancisTyers · 13:27, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

If I can add my opinion, I feel it would be a great idea. It seems clear that much of the worst damage is being done by a few editors, and their editing should be brought before the ArbCom.--Aldux 21:19, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd be thinking of something even broader - a policy, rather than an ArbCom case, along the lines of preventing people from expressing opinions on any political/religious/ethnic/national group, or advocating or opposing independence for particular geographical areas or people. Identifying yourself as a member of a particular nationality or ethnic group is fair enough (not my taste, but I accept that other people want to do it and it isn't too harmful), but anything beyond that has nothing to do with creating an encyclopaedia, it's just about winding other people up. I'll think about putting together a first attempt at a policy proposal, if nobody else does in the meantime (I'm going to be very busy for a few days), and hopefully we can then put it forward. Jimbo has expressed similar sentiments on the mailing list , so there may be support from that quarter. --ajn (talk) 13:21, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Hm, not sure this would work. What exactly would you ban? Reverting the things you don't like? I think that's already not allowed. "Nationalist propaganda"? Well, I don't see how any kind of propaganda can be incorporated into Misplaced Pages by following current rules since Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, and you do not get to put propaganda in it since it is, well, unencyclopedic... or at least you are not supposed to (see for instance). --Dijxtra I don't know how come I forget to sign only on WP:AN

Well, I think that WP:SOAP is pretty clear about this point as it already stands. The thing is more complicated with another kind of POV pushing wikipedians who, though being civil, are clearly trying to promote their own agenda (even if some of them genuinely don't realise their POV is blurring their vision). Where do you set the limit on specialisation on a particular subject and POV-pushing is a tricky business, as we all know. In that sense, I did actually think a while back about putting together some sort of "Code of Practice" for users engaged on this sort of controversial issues but I could not figure out how to start it. I would appreciate any comments on this (I have no problem proposing this to Esperanza and/or Concordia people too). On a separate issue, it seems C-c-c has written an {{unblock}} notice. Any admin willing to take action?--E Asterion 22:20, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

• I added {{indefblocked}} to his user page. Kilo-Lima| 18:29, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
• I want to make clear that I am still against a community ban against this user unless any real action is taken to solve the wider problem. There have been at least two other opinions against this ban. I believe it was rushed through in just a few hours. I cannot consider this consensus. --E Asterion 11:14, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

The wider problem

I agree entirely with Andrew that we have a wider problem across a range of Balkans-related articles. There are a number of other problematic users - User:Kubura (Croatian), User:WuBaja (Serbian) and User:Vergina (Greek) come to mind - who act without any regard for Misplaced Pages's fundamental policies (WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, WP:RS, WP:V etc). I've taken action on a number of disputed Croatian articles, such as Battle of Vukovar and Operation Medak Pocket, to enforce those policies. I posted a message to the talk pages of those articles and others reminding people of the following:

• Don't add partisan commentary, and ensure that your contributions are written in a neutral tone. We're here to write an encyclopedic article, not a partisan screed. (WP:NPOV).

• Any additions must be sourced, cited and verifiable. (WP:CITE, WP:V).

• Any sources must be reliable. Newspaper reports, government documents, books and reports from well-known international organisations are generally regarded as good sources. Commentary on personal websites or the personal views of individual editors are not. (WP:V, WP:RS, WP:NOR).

I reverted any changes, pro- or anti-, that didn't meet these standards, and explained to the users in question why I'd done so. In one instance (that of User:Bormalagurski) this resulted in personal abuse and the deliberate copying-and-pasting into the article of large chunks of plagiarised text; I blocked the user in question. (He has since departed the English Misplaced Pages although, I think disgracefully, he is still an administrator on the Serbian Misplaced Pages.)

I think there's more than one category of user in question here, though. The first is the hopeless cases - the people who are only interested in POV-pushing, don't make any useful contributions and have no interest at all in NPOV, RS etc. User:Vergina falls into this category - I don't think he's ever made a positive contribution to Misplaced Pages, and we wouldn't lose anything by banning him or his ilk. (Check out his contributions - you'll see what I mean.)

The second is the bad-faith cases - people who are strong POV-pushers and try to subvert or sneakily ignore NPOV, but who do make some useful contributions to other articles. User:Bormalagurski is a good example of this, as is User:C-c-c-c. They've both made some good edits, as well as some very bad edits. There is a judgment call to be made here: do such users' positive contributions outweight the damage they do elsewhere?

The third category is the users who honestly don't know better. I've found that explaining Misplaced Pages's rules on their talk pages can have a positive effect here, and I strongly recommend this course of action. If they ignore your advice then I think you would have good cause to start warning them and building up to blocking them if they don't change their ways. -- ChrisO 19:00, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Shared IP?

I don't know the nitty gritty technical deatils, but it appears I was blocked because this user was a vandal. My ISP in Canada is shaw, and I've been told they use a shared IP proxy. Therefore, blocking User:C-c-c-c for long periods of time is going to prevent a lot of people from editing! --geekyßroad 21:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Community ban review

C-c-c-c has put up an unblock tag with an apology for a personal attack.

I raise this here for formal review.

My own opinion is that, due to his history, the community should not waste further time on this editor. --Tony Sidaway 16:52, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

This user has apologised and requested a second chance. Considering this has been granted before to users exponentially more disruptive than c-c-c-c, I believe it would be the right thing to do. I am also unhappy with the community ban process. This was rushed through in a few hours time (there was no need to speed up process as C-c-c-c was already blocked at the time). At least two other bona fide users have expressed their concerns regarding a community ban. Regards, --E Asterion 22:00, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Please see User talk:C-c-c-c and the last comment here. When Dijxtra gets back to me, I'll be making a RFCU request to clarify who is pretending to be whom. --ajn (talk) 22:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know, someone requested this before and the checkuser concluded that C-c-c-c is not Bormalagurski as you seem to imply on the former's talk page. --E Asterion 18:11, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

PinchasC Abuses Adminstrative Priveleges

Removed copy/paste of semi protection policy by User:70.8.99.43. For relevant discussion of the poster's complaint, see Spicynugget below. FreplySpang 19:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Personal attacks by user Pantherarosa

I posted the issue on the backloged WP:PAIN but it became a cluttered mess that gave no result. Instead of getting into a detailed explaination, below are the personal attacks made by Pantherarosa even though (s)he had been warned numerous times to stop. I think they speak for themselves:

edit summary and

Keep in mind these were being made after Pantherarosa had been warned numerous times to stop. Paul Cyr 04:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello? Paul Cyr 04:01, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Pantherarosa also is vandalising my user page and using misleading edit summaries: Paul Cyr 20:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

YOU are spreading lies and libel as for quite a while about me. On your user-page i have taken the LIBERTY to correct a spelling mistake (your mistake: "indefinate"/my correction: indefinite), ironically at the same TIME STAMP instant as you have subsequently changed your previous MISSPELLED posting. You are welcome to take off your erroneous accusation and my clarification, here.Pantherarosa 20:16, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

"Correcting" another user's spelling mistakes, when you are in dispute with them, could be considered as harrassment. Why not just not edit his page? User:Zoe| 20:27, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

No, you reverted the page back serveral revisions and changed the spelling. Thereby removing another user's comments and reverting my edits, since the prior revision I had changed "indefinite" to "a month". Given your previous actions, I think it's safe to say you were screwing around with my page and passing it off as an innocent edit. Why else would you had reverted back several revisions instead of just editing the word? In addition, your edit was over 2 hours after mine. That is not at the same instant. Paul Cyr 20:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Paul is right. This is not a spelling correction. User:Zoe| 20:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I made one single entry and did not REVERT at all, there may have been a timelag though between making the correction and SAVE PAGE action. So no need to spread further libel. The User Zoe's observation is not applying, as I am the one who suffered harrassment, as can be easily backtracked!Pantherarosa 20:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Setting the page back to a previous state is reverting. Given your previous statements, I think you are lying when you expect us to believe you waited over two hours to save your edits. As for Zoe's comments, all user's comments apply; it's one of the founding principles of Misplaced Pages. Paul Cyr 20:54, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

If Zoe's comment applies, than certainly in your regard: YOU have, in fact, repeatedly applied yourself to reverting and "editing" my Talk page. The last time a few minutes ago...Pantherarosa 21:27, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I reached your miss-spelled entry over my page watch and it has been your last entry, at the time I chanced upon it. All i did was change the spelling, so don't construe anything! Why would I in my right mind REVERT senslessly and sign with my good name??? That would constitute vandalism.Pantherarosa 21:06, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Editing talk pages in accordance with Misplaced Pages guidelines is not harrassment. I doubt you'll find an admin who'll object to me removing personal attacks against me from an indefinitely banned user. As for you editing my page when I was the last editor, what you said is impossible as it would have resulted in an edit conflict warning preventing you from accidentally overwritting what had been written. Paul Cyr 02:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Reconstructing the events, I agree that, in fact, THERE HAS BEEN an editing conflict warning (in connection with "show preview"), which i did not attribute to an edit concerning this matter, after a considerable break in editing, having done other work for more than 2 hours. I understood only after your verbose accusations that the said SAVE PAGE action had obviously triggered then only (I presume admin can ascertain this in due course). I do not accept your renewed false accusations, especially not in light of your continuous attempts at defaming me. It was due to the fact that i found you on my watchlist today (and reading your contributions log) that I came to know about your relentless bickering on this board and your userpage. My spelling correction was meant as a reminder for you to see I am on top of your pranks. My first impression regarding "same instance" editing was based on comparing your TIME STAMP before and after my edit, which shows the same time. In any event: Say what you want; I merely attempted to correct your spelling of the word indefinite. The ensuing mishap has not been my intention.Pantherarosa 03:14, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Except the fact you can't accidentally overwrite suceeding edits in an edit conflict without cutting and pasting your edits from the bottom text box to the top. So either you did it on purpose or you just intentionally bypassed warning messages without looking at what they said. As for your relentless bickering on this board and your userpage and I am on top of your pranks, those aren't personal attacks, but they definately violated WP:CIVIL. Paul Cyr

Stop editing my comments as you did here: ] if I make spelling mistakes then it's for me to correct. As Zoe said "Correcting" another user's spelling mistakes, when you are in dispute with them, could be considered as harrassment. Doing it after being told not to is harrassment. Paul Cyr 03:42, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Pantherarosa, I see this as a simple question of whether you realise that your comments could be understood as demeaning and/or a personal attack. Whatever Paul Cyr's age is, it does not mean you should make fun of it. You may be right or wrong about the edit conflict (I had a problem with overwriting newer versions by mistake myself) but that does not excuse the language you have been using to refer to another member of the wikipedia community. Regards, --E Asterion 23:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Especially when in 10 days I am legally an adult. Hardly a "schoolboy" ;) Paul Cyr 23:48, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Well then, " Happy Birthday! " Pantherarosa 09:22, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

AFD backlog

There's 5 days of AFD pages backlogged at the moment. People seem to close the easy ones, then skip over any that involve a modicum of effort (such as merging, or transwiki-ing). I'm wading through June 6 at the moment, but I can't close AFDs I've already been involved in, which is most of them. Help would be appreciated. Proto||type 13:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I have no problems with closing contentious or tough AfDs, and I very rarely "skip" an AfD, but I simply don't have the continuous time it takes to close 50+ AfDs in succession. Usually when I see the AfDs for a particular day drop down to around 20 or 30, that's when I'll get cracking on closing the rest of them, so it would be great if we have a lot of volunteers just close a few to bring it down to this level. --Deathphoenix ʕ 14:24, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I've just closed a couple and will try to find some time to close a few more tomorrow. Metamagician3000 15:40, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Out of interest, how other admins deal with merge results? As it's basically a keep, do you just declare it as keep, declare as keep but also add merge tags on or what? Just out of interest as I've done very little AFD work (and not really been around there much recently), but would be useful to know as this as it seems to be the number 1 reason for non-closure of the older AFD's. Petros471 18:35, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

As you prefer. Personally, if I think the result is merge I say so. If I can execute the merge, I do, if I don't feel qualified I don't, note that fact on the AfD and add merge tags as needed. -Splash - tk 18:42, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I also tend to find merge results hard to deal with. Usually merging requires some expertise in the subject matter, and if I have significant expertise in the subject matter I tend to vote on the AfD rather than closing it. So for me, it's generally merge tags. I think that's about all that can be expected of the closing admin. moink 19:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

(shift left) If there are several merge and keep votes together, I usually just close the AfD as a Keep or Not delete, and close the article as per a keep result, making a note that Keep vs. Merge debates can be handled out of AfD. For merge results, I usually try to do the merge myself, but if the subject matter is too difficult, the work required is extensive, or if I'm simply too lazy (that happens on occasion), I just apply the merge tags to the AfDed article and the target article. I make sure to pass, as the second parameter, the proper talk page to discuss the merge (the talk page of the AfDed article is most appropriate, I think).

For example: {{mergeto|Target article|Talk:AfDed article}} and {{mergefrom|AfDed article|Talk:AfDed article}}. That's just how I do it, I don't know how other AfD closers do it. --Deathphoenix ʕ 20:06, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to add my voice to get some AFDs closed. I noticed people relisting AFDs that were 9 days old yesterday and a few AFDs I'm involved in have surpassed their 5 day point and still haven't been closed. --Crossmr 16:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it was very dicey before, and I saw about four or five days worth of AfDs listed in WP:AFD/Old at one time. We're down to two days, so maybe things are better. I'd still like to see some folks willing to bring it down to about 20 AfDs. I don't have any more continuous time to devote to closing AfDs today... --Deathphoenix ʕ 17:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Hrm. I'm not sure about that. I've got outstanding AFDs that are older than the 12th still sitting around. --Crossmr 18:27, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Which outstanding AfDs are you talking about? According to the Mathbot, when it processed WP:AFD/Old, all the ones listed prior to June 12 were closed. Perhaps these AfDs are orphaned? --Deathphoenix ʕ 19:05, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I've just closed off June 12. There was one mathbot picked up but that had been archived into page history for privacy reasons. As Deathphoenix says if any are still open, please let us know as they don't (obviously) show up on the listings. Petros471 20:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

These AFDs are still open: Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Nithlings Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Nicto that one is from the 9th. Here is another from the 9th Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Resonance_(MIT). I'll keep looking as I know there were some relisted yesterday that weren't on my watchlist. --Crossmr 21:28, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Corky_Bucek This is also from the 9th it appears. --Crossmr 21:32, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

They are all relisted, which is a legitimate option. They will be closed next time around. Petros471 21:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Relisting restarts the 5 day counter? I thought relisting just made sure you were able to reach a concensus by giving it exposure and didn't extend the length of the actual discussion? --Crossmr 21:39, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

It basically restarts the counter, as they are placed on the same page as the other 'brand new' AFD nominations. However, they can get closed in less than the extra five says if consensus becomes clear. The exposure happens by being put back on the 'front page' and having the length of discussion extended. Petros471 22:06, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/The_Adventures_of_Dr._McNinja_(fourth_nomination) this one is from the 10th and hasn't been relisted. --Crossmr 02:43, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Not sure why, but this one is listed in June 17. Likely, it was either orphaned when first nominated (then listed on June 17) or it was relisted June 17 without having the relist notice up. Either way, it'll be closed in time. Despite the fact that having that AfD notice up on an article can be stressful, these things get closed in time, and there's no harm in having it up for a little longer, especially when you consider how overworked some of our AfD closers are. --Deathphoenix ʕ 13:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Its not a matter of stress per se. Just closing the AFD in time to ensure a proper process. When it comes to deleting someone's work, or keeping something controversial, I think the process has to be transparent, and abnormally long AFDs and other things can lead to people questioning that process. --Crossmr 15:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I agree. Unfortunately, AfD closers are volunteers. Just earlier, I closed an AfD that took me almost thirty minutes to complete. And there are tonnes of AfDs to close. In an ideal world, AfD closers would swoop in and close all the AfDs within the space of twelve hours after they have expired. Unfortunately, they are not. In addition, proper process doesn't actually give a maximum time limit into when an AfD has to be closed. It only says that AfDs may be closed after five days, but may sit in the back log for several more days.

But in any case, you have a valid complaint. AfDs can sometimes sit in a backlog for a while. Perhaps you'd like to help control the backlog by helping us close AfDs? If you're not an admin, but still want to help clear our AfD backlog, take a look at here to see how you can help. Thanks, Deathphoenix ʕ 19:48, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Deathphoenix, I'll have a look at that. I'm not an admin currently, but if I can close unanimous keeps then that might help when I come across them. I'll go through and read the proper process. Is there anything in particular I should tag the closing with to indicate I'm not an admin when doing so? --Crossmr 20:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

No, there's no need to do so. Just remember that you can only close AfDs that are very unanimously a Keep (or Merge, or Redirect). A good rule of thumb (someone else could correct me if they wish) would be at least four Keeps (or Merges, or Redirects), and maybe 90% consensus. Anything else might be a little too contentious for anyone but an admin to close. --Deathphoenix ʕ 20:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

That sounds pretty reasonable. I'll see what I can do to contribute. --Crossmr 20:30, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Wonderful. Thanks. :-) --Deathphoenix ʕ 13:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I started closing AfDs (as a non-admin), but found that I was scrolling through the whole lot searching for near-unanimous keeps and not finding many. There were others where I would have closed and made a decision, but didn't want to overstep the mark. I understand in the past there was more leeway for non-admins closing with "no consensus" or whatever. If this were approved, it would share the workload (and non-admin closures are subject to review anyway as a safeguard).

On the subject of difficult merges after an AfD, would it be an acceptable solution to change the article into a redirect to the second article, and paste the contents of the first article on the talk page of the second article, making it clear that this was material from the first article that needed to be merged? The editing history would of course still be preserved with the first article.

Tyrenius 15:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, if you see any obvious delete closures, I wouldn't see anything wrong with closing it as delete then putting {{db|closed ] as delete. ~~~~}} or somesuch. Other users might disagree, saying it's a slippery slope, but I think boldness would be appropriate in times of massive backlog. — Jun. 24, '06 <freak|talk>

That's for speedy delete, but most articles for deletion don't meet speedy criteria, which is why they're put on AfD in the first place, so that tag would be misleading. Non-admins can't complete the process, even if there is a (near-)unanimous consensus for delete. However, they could close "no consensus, keep" AfDs. Tyrenius 16:25, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Not sure non-admins should be closing close (i.e. no consensus) keeps. I don't have too much problem with them closing obvious deletes and than tagging with db|(afd link), but that wouldn't really save admins any work as they would still have to check the afd was valid etc as it is the deleting admin that has to 'take the blame' in case of future questions. Closing clear delete afd's hardly takes any time at all anyway. Petros471 16:34, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I thought! Tyrenius 16:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Image undeletion now possible

All hail the devs, for image undeletion is now possible. -Splash - tk 15:00, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

NO!! It was better without this function :'(. Kilo-Lima| 17:42, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

How so? Images as anything else should not be undeleted without good reason, and if there is good reason this is defenently better than tracking down the image and re-uploading. Hopefully this will also reduce some of the "drama" about people crying bloody murder if one of theyr self created images gets deleted for lacking copyright info while they where away on vacation for a week. Misplaced Pages:Deletion review might see a surge of "frivelous" undelete requets for a while (omg! that was a gr8 pic unletele plz!11", but I'll sure we'll manage. --Sherool (talk) 15:11, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I think this is a bad idea for copyright violation pictures. Nothing too significant though. I am guessing this applies for images after June 2006. -- Jared Hunt 21:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Well obviously. I would tink that goes without saying. Any and all votes to overturn a copyvio deketion should be ignored unless a persuasive fair use argument or proof of a free license release can be provided, but AFAIK this have not been a problem with copyright infrindging text, so I don't think it copyvios getting undeleted will be a huge problem with images either. And yes, only images deleted after the feature was implemented (June 16) can actualy be undeleted). --Sherool (talk) 23:31, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I won't be happy until it is possible to move/rename images (and redirect them to avoid the need for duplicates in template contexts). It would be nice to do something about bloody fuck obnoxious non-descriptive image titles such Image:0006AC40-2CAA-1FD7-8DAB80C328EC0000.jpg. — Jun. 20, '06 <freak|talk>

If the filename is a GUID, then the image is probably a copyvio ripped from the web somewhere, and should be shot on sight. --Carnildo 02:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I totally second Freakofnurture. And if the filename is a GUID, then it could be fair use too, no? ~Chris _{Don't be evil.} 17:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Yuck, my balls smell like raw sewage

Athough a hilarious username, it violates the username policy (Names that refer to or allude to reproductive or excretory functions of the body). The user is also vandalising. (Also, if this is the wrong page to be reporting this, please let me know...) -- gtdp /_(C) 14:49, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

User already has been blocked: 10:43, 18 June 2006 Malcolm Farmer blocked "Yuck, my balls smell like raw sewage (contribs)" with an expiry time of indefinite (inappropriate username, vandalism) Metros232 14:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Got another one for you: You're all queers (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) -- gtdp /_(C) 14:54, 18 June 2006 (UTC) Nevermind, already blocked. -- gtdp /_(C) 14:55, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

That name is pathetic. Iolakana| 16:01, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Cheezus H Crust

I'm guessing most native English speakers will understand the reference (and, admittedly, it's humorous), yet this may have been altered enough to let stand per WP:USERNAME. No contribs as I type this. Thoughts? RadioKirk (u|t|c) 20:19, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Username block, most certainly. --Lord Deskana 20:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Not certainly enough for you to do it, apparently ;-). I've blocked the account. --Sam Blanning 22:49, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

That really seems like overkill. It's not likely to be mistaken for the actual religious figure, which was your stated reason for blocking, and it's not so offensive as to be de facto worth blocking pre-emptively in my opinion. -- nae'blis _(talk) 12:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm leaning away from the block—barely, but leaning away. As written, this could be to whom you might pray for decent food at Pizza Hut... ;) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 13:14, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

This user never complained or contributed, so it may have been the right call after all. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 04:31, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Spicynugget

Spicynugget has been adding spam links to prayer. After consensus on the talk page has shown that there should not be spam links there, ip addresses from the same isp have been adding those links those ip's have also been editing the same articles that Spicynugget has been editing. These ip's have violated the 3rr rule. There is no checkuser result to prove that they are the same person as checkuser are only done for more extreme cases (so I have been told when requesting the checkuser ). Therefore based upon the above I have blocked Spicynugget and his most recent ip for 24 hours for the 3rr violation. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 21:28, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

User:70.8.87.34 is now making edits that fit Spicynugget's pattern.--Birdmessenger 20:28, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Block extended to a week for evading block. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 22:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I've put in a request for investigation, because this has been an ongoing problem, with 31 spam edits in the last month, including six today, from not only username SpicyNugget, but also from 8 other IP addresses. See my report on the investigation request page for details. MamaGeek (Talk/Contrib) 12:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I have blocked three of the IPs for activity today: 68.30.30.12 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) (vandalised my user page), 70.8.87.34 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)(5RR on Prayer) and 68.30.202.138 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) (removed afd notice from God in the Pits. Now 70.8.99.43 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) is cheerfully spamming my talk page (User_talk:KillerChihuahua#KillerChihuahua_Abuses_Adminstrative_Priveleges). I have to go offline, anyone who wants to take over, please feel free to do so. All the IPs resolve to Sprint Reston VA, btw. KillerChihuahua 19:19, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

KillerChihuahua

Semi-protection is intended to allow good edits to be made while preventing vandalism of the page. There are some situations in which it should not be applied. It is:

   * not to be used to deal with regular content disputes. See the protection policy for how to deal with this;
   * not intended for pre-emptive protection with the exception of some biographies of living people
   * not for the day's Featured Article, which should almost never be protected;
   * not intended to prohibit anonymous editing in general.

Article-talk pages are not protected as a rule, except in special circumstances. User-talk pages subject to persistent vandalism or trolling may be semi-protected or protected on request.

Semi-protection should only be considered if it is the only option left available to solve the problem of vandalism of the page. In other words, just like full protection, it is a last resort. Remember to lift the semi-protection after a brief period if appropriate.

I demand that you unprotect the Prayer links page and unblock any affected users or I will be forced to begin a campaign requesting removal of your administration status.70.8.99.43 19:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I was also offended that you view Misplaced Pages as a place for redistributing the world's knowledge according to your POV. You state on your user page:

"Judaism at 14.5 million is less than 1% of the world population. Please help with correcting this bias by adding religious views as appropriate."

If Misplaced Pages truly is a platform for the world to exchange the best ideas, then the more dominant, livable, and realistic philosophies will surface. Please remove your destructive comments for they are inconsistent with Misplaced Pages's progressive philosophy of education.70.8.99.43 19:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

KC didn't protect Prayer, and it has in any event been protected appropriately. SlimVirgin 19:34, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

ecIn case anyone is curious, it was actually Petros471 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) who protected Prayer due to external link spamming. Jkelly 19:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Quick edit to state that my Soapbox is being quoted out of context. Please see my user page; where the full content can be viewed. This was the basis for the WP:BIAS section on religion. KillerChihuahua 20:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

User claiming his contributions aren't GFDL, veiled legal threats.

User:Brian G. Wilson has stated this his contributions to "music-related topics" are not under the GFDL and claims that he's going to remove them, telling people not to revert . This isn't a possibility of the GFDL.

On being told this, he makes thinly veiled threats of legal action as a means to an end on his statement: (note that theres heavy comment reformatting in the first link; the second one also includes some comments being moved and theres been serious refactoring of text but not threat or tone since).

He also, strangely, threatens to "destroy" Misplaced Pages and Google. , although I'm not sure whats meant by that.

Theres also quite serious WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL breaches as well as quite constant accusations that people are "pretending" to be someone else when he believes they are in fact related to him, work for his ISP, live in Italy and a whole host of other apparent things the Misplaced Pages userbase is covering up... --Kiand 13:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

here is him actually removing content under his claims that he's not licenced it under the GFDL. --Kiand 13:43, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I've indef blocked with the reason "legal threats, personal attacks, threats to 'destroy Misplaced Pages'". The diffs above and this one seem to be reason enough for me. Others please review. Petros471 13:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

GFDL, once granted, cannot be revoked. In addition, no matter what one may claim, making a contribution to Misplaced Pages constitutes an agreement to grant GFDL rights to those edits, so Brian's GFDL revocation is invalid. As for threatening to bring down Misplaced Pages, that might be grounds for an indef block, yes, but I'm more interested in knowing why Brian's feeling this way. Did he get involved in a dispute with someone? I'm more interested in trying to resolve this dispute that's making him feel this way in the first place. --Deathphoenix ʕ 14:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

He got involved in disputes with lots of people (I'm one of the people he doesn't like for example). To be short: He has HIS own idea about musical genres, and he strongly dislike modern electronic dance music (see Talk:Psybient). (I don't either, but that's no reason to push away and steer this articles in a way that suits your POV) Moreover, he doesn't like the term "electronic" music being used, except for his own strict definitions. His definitions aren't that wrong, he's just too narrow-minded regarding the subject and he fails to accept that thousands and thousand of people are using the english language, give names to genres and that music evolves, so his strict definitions are the single real "truth". Since a few weeks/months, he has gradually been reshaping articles to his ideas. He has been reverted many times. People tried to talk with him... some tried really hard... eg see Talk:Club_music, there are really long comments by User:mjb , I respect the way mjb tried to reason in a very calm way. But nothing helped: all Brian G Wilson does is getting angry, posting incomprehensible comments multiple times on different people/article talk pages. You MIGHT try conflict resolution, however, I guess about ten people have tried it already in a calm way, the only result being this user starting insults and posting comments no-one understands (the sort of weird texts people believing in alien conspiracies etc... write) --LimoWreck 14:17, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Ah, a classic case of one user vs. many. Well, if he resorts to making legal threats, the indef block is certainly valid, at least until he stops making these threats. --Deathphoenix ʕ 14:25, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Apologies for vanishing straight after the above, my computer crashed before I even had chance to post a blocked note on his talk page. I am quite willing to consider an unblock if his behaviour shows sign of change, however I'm not sure how likely this is considering the latest . Petros471 14:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

God save the Queen… Regardless of the flipped lid, since licensing is implied with each edit, if a user openly denies the GFDL, can it simply and safely be ignored? Or does it automatically make them unfit to continue contributing? Femto 14:58, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it can be safely ignored, but no, it doesn't make them unfit to continue contributing. I think it just means the user needs to be educated about how GFDL is implied. It's only if the user starts making legal threats that they need to be banned, and not because it's a punishment. I don't remember the exact wording, but it has something to do with how someone going through legal proceedings should not also be involved with the entity in which they are pursuing such legal proceedings. --Deathphoenix ʕ 15:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the fact that he's now claiming that the entire Misplaced Pages user base are minor members of the British royal family in disguise using it to promote the use of drugs suggests to me that he -is- unfit to continue contributing. Anyway, must go to get my ermine robes fitted... dammit, didn't mean to give away my disguise! --Kiand 15:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Is there a full moon tonight? - this one's obsessed with electric pianos. --ajn (talk) 15:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

This has come up before; the case that I know of off the top of my head is Pioneer-12 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). He wanted to avoid licensing his talk contributions under the GFDL, and refused to accept that the GFDL was a condition of participation in Misplaced Pages. In order to avoid unecessary complications and legal disputes, editors who no longer wish to contribute under the GFDL are no longer welcome to contribute. If they change their minds, then they are more than welcome to return. Petros471's block is reasonable, and in line with how we've handled these cases in the past. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Someone might want to take a peek at his talk page and see if his saying he'll "destroy Misplaced Pages" and other comments make it worth protecting the page. Amusing, but bothersome. Tony Fox (speak) 17:06, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

As I said before: this guy's incomprehensible nonsense keeps comming; this seems some sort of guy who sees government and alien conspiracies everywhere like I said in my remark above... well, his latest comments about the royal familly are exactly what I meant ;-) That's the reason another attempt at dispute resolution won't really work, different people have tried, this is the result ;-) --LimoWreck 17:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

In that case, I'll just have to polish my crown and carry on. --Deathphoenix ʕ 17:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like Mr. Treason to me. Scienceman123 18:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Community ban of User:Brian G. Wilson

I think we should consider him community banned. Anyone think it's too early for that? --Ryan Delaney 22:05, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

If he decides he wants to start licensing his contributions under the GFDL again, we should let him come back. --Carnildo 23:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The community doesn't really come into it, and community bans are not implemented by a straw poll for a few hours on this noticeboard. They are implemented when noone is willing to unblock anymore for whatever (usually cumulative) reason. Anyway, if he is unwilling to release his edits under the GFDL then i)he must not contribute any and ii)by precedent, accounts that refuse to allow the GFDL are blocked until they agree to it. As soon as he is happy with that, there is no reason not to unblock him. So an indefinite block pending 'resolution', certainly. But a permanent ban by some kind of acclamation, no. And also, he can't retract GFDL permission as has already been observed, but that in itself is no reason to blindly revert him since his edits may hypothetically not be wanted anyway (and, being aware of the GFDL and continuing to edit is probably licensing his edits under the GFDL anyway. The notice is on every page.). -Splash - tk 23:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

There should be a rule about being auto-blocked for being a complete nutjob whacko --mboverload@ 21:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

And now he's back again using his previous account User:sky-surfer (check both account histories, first skysurfer; his edits stopped at the moment Wilson start, and now Wilson is blocked sky-surfer returns)... also check the edits: same topics, same wordings, ... --LimoWreck 22:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User:CoolKatt number 99999

This user has long been a problem user, causing trouble all across Misplaced Pages, getting in fights with people, and going against the consensus on WP:TVS on many issues. Recently, he opened a frivolous RfC against a user, and has also made legal threats against me in the past. I think you admins need to take a serious look at this member and his actions. Also, he has ridiculous subpages that waste Misplaced Pages's space and some are even misleading and completely fictional. Note: He has also had an RfC filed against himself. Obvious problem user. --CFIF (talk to me) 02:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I am actually unsure about a consensus for a community ban. Making legal threats will not be tolerated on Misplaced Pages, but, even although they make Misplaced Pages a horrible place to be with them, the user has recently been making positive contributions. Iolakana| 16:09, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I've worked with User:CoolKatt number 99999, and he has made some valuable contributions. No need to block a user over some simple edit conflicts.--Firsfron of Ronchester 16:21, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Simple? A lot of his edits are farce, and his subpages are wayyy more than ridiculous, how can anyone defend those awful, rotten subpages? --CFIF (talk to me) 00:25, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The consensus of the community on CoolKatt's subpages was default keep. I don't agree with some of his edits, but others have been just fine, and I feel if this user had been spoken to in a polite manner from the very beginning, he would never have reacted poorly. Unfortunately, that did not happen. --Firsfron of Ronchester 20:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

That's because he plays the victim and gets sympathy points from people. Tell me Firsfron, what gave him, the assumed right to make legal threats against me? I think it's pretty hard to speak in a polite manner to someone like CoolKatt. --CFIF (talk to me) 20:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

No one has a right to make legal threats on Misplaced Pages.--Firsfron of Ronchester 00:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

So then why hasn't this person been banned? besides the fact that no admin has bothered to stop by and address this yet. There is never a good reason to make legal threats and no amount of positive contribution off-sets that, especially when coupled with the fact that they continue to make personal attacks against users who disagree with them. --Crossmr 01:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to have to agree with CFIF, legal threats are an automatic ban last time I checked, they were not to be tolerated. This person is still here why? Its a very obvious legal threat. --Crossmr 01:56, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

For my part, I consider this a personal attack, especially considering proper procedure wasn't followed and this was done simply as retaliation for agreeing with an AFD. Special:Contributions/CoolKatt_number_99999 contributions here, you can see she claims I'm a sock puppet of apostrophe, but doesn't doesn't bother to label him a puppet master, and her evidence is non-existent. she also does the same to Opabinia . She's obviously trying to get an article reinstated that was deleted by concensus (and on which a concensus still seems to exist to keep it deleted) Misplaced Pages:Deletion_review/Log/2006_June_23 she presents no evidence and just goes out and defaces user pages in what I consider a personal attack. --Crossmr 01:53, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

What really got me was this edit. So Apostrophe has been saving up sockpuppets that he finally chose to deploy just to delete a Pokemon article? Opabinia regalis 02:24, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you saying that you also feel this is a personal attack? Just so we can spell it out for all involved.--Crossmr 02:27, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Eh, more amusing than anything, but since accusations in bad faith are considered personal attacks, then this sounds like it qualifies. Opabinia regalis 03:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

This is not the first time CK#9999 has made spurious accusations of sockpuppetry: see Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Cultural references in Pokémon for a past example. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:31, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

wow. I'd never actually been back to that discussion after leaving my comment until now. That is absolutely ridiculous. I insist an admin tell us why this user hasn't been banned before now. --Crossmr 03:34, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

This guy is hilarious. "Everyone who disagrees with me is part of an evil collective with nothing better to do than to delete Pokemon cruft!" Opabinia regalis 04:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I have to wonder too why this user hasn't been banned already, or even blocked before yesterday. disruption/harrassment, personal attacks, legal threats. We've permbanned for less than that. Circeus 04:20, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I have any right posting here, as I'm not an admin, but I thought I'd point out that CK9^5 does have an unfortunate history of ignoring consensus -- the long list of musical artists on his page was fallout from a somewhat nasty debate on classic rock over who should be considered to be on a list of classic rock artists, and whether such a list was even necessary in the first place (the list was ultimately removed as unnecessary, and would probably be removed again as hopelessly POV if it was ever added back in); his general attitude through the entire incident was that those who disagreed with his classifications (which stretched the definition of "classic rock" into utter meaninglessness, in my opinion) should just leave the article alone. CK9^5's labyrinth of counterfactual subpages (which IMHO is more appropriate for GeoCities than Misplaced Pages, but I didn't make the rules) is evidence of someone unwilling to concede to consensus under any circumstances. I don't think CK9^5 is a malicious user, but he is definitely unwilling to accept differences of opinion. Just a few highly biased thoughts from Haikupoet 05:20, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

This has actually been here for 5 days (the firs tcomplaint) and the admin haven't given any input into this situation. Is there another place to put this where it will get actual attention?--Crossmr 20:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to speak, as someone CK#9999 has repeatedly accused of all sorts of wrongdoing, as well as the subject of the frivilous RFC above.

CK makes good edits, and I feel that, with the proper mentoring from an experienced user, can get past the paranoia and obnoxiousness. I also feel that punitive measures would be counterproductive (and I would certainly be the wrong one to be implementing them).

Failing that, I oppose, for the reasons above, any punitive measure that isn't in specific response to a specific issue (a particular revert war, a particular spurious accusation, etc.) Let's not turn AN into a Quickpoll-style witch burning. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

This isn't kindergarten. We expect to a certain degree that people behave maturely and act like adults. While I'm all for letting someone make a mistake or two and improve upon it, the pattern of behaviour I see here isn't one of someone who's interested in bettering themselves and participating in a meaningful way in a community. Someone who acts inappropriately or makes mistakes and is genuinely interested in growing with the community and contributingly positively will seek that out when it becomes apparent that they're not going about things the right way. They've shown a clear disregard for the community and those in it. They seem more interested in slandering people and making threats to push their opinion than realize there is probably a better way to go about it. Does that mean we cut people off on the first mistake they make? no. Do we coddle someone endlessly on the hopes they turn around? No. I've been in communities where they've tried to do that with trouble makers and it turns into a gong show. I say give them a week or two to cool their heels, make it very clear their continued behaviour won't be tolerated and put them on probation when they return. If they can behave properly, so be it, but ensure its very clear whats expected of them if they're to continue as such here, but letting them get away with the behaviour they've exhibited unpunished is ridiculous. --Crossmr 02:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

User:CoolKatt number 99999/What CoolKatt number 99999 is not. He talks about himself in the third person here. He is getting crazy. --CFIF (talk to me) 12:03, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I need you to stop talking trash about me. I know many of you people don't like me, now stop this insolence. I will also nominate this section of the article for deletion, but not add a template. Anyone who feels this section be removed, comment here. CoolKatt number 99999 15:48, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I am a he by the way. CoolKatt number 99999 15:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Insolence? You're the one making personal attacks and legal threats. As it stands now, I won't support anything less than a permanent ban unless I start seeing full apologies and reparations for your behaviour. --Crossmr 15:59, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

So again, I'm going to ask: Where is the admin input on this issue? The trainwreck that is CK continues as he denies any wrong-doing and spins conspirecy theories about users who've never associated getting together to delete an article, all the while permitted to make endless personal attacks and legal threats unchecked. If necessary I'll continue to ask that question everyday until the time that someone shows up here and does their job. --Crossmr 19:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Hear, Hear! The admins seem to not be doing anything about BenH either. --CFIF (talk to me) 19:30, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I just noticed that subpage CFIF posted. So CoolKatt number 99999 isn't the one who contributes "poorly wrote sentences"? This guy is the master of unintentional irony. Opabinia regalis 01:48, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Greetings Adminstrators.

Greetings Administrators,

> Can you provide evidence to these accusations? Naconkantari 18:08, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I can. Can you please email me at MichaelDWolok@aol.com

Please look at the Many-Worlds article. And read Lethe's comments on the article's talk page from the time I made my first edit.

> This editor seems to be somewhat confused. From the low volume and quality of

> his edits and the high number of blocks he has nevertheless attracted

> I expect that he has come to harbor a grudge against administrators.

> --Tony Sidaway 22:55, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I harbor no grudge against anyone. I certainly harbor no grudge against any Misplaced Pages administrator. Accusations like this make me wonder about the accuser.

The high number of blocks I have are because I post from AOL. All but three or four of those blocks were intended for others, not me. Two of those three blocks that were intended for me were put in place by Lethe. Both were for violating the 3RR.

The fisrt time he issued the block, it was my very first day editing Misplaced Pages. I did not know there was a 3RR. Instead of identifying himself and explaining the rule to me, he just blocked me for twenty-four hours. The second time he blocked me for 3RR, I don't believe I violated the rule. I did not revert the same material three times in one day. The material I reverted remains reverted. Other editors agreed with me that there is no known category called "Gray Rape." A Google search of "Gray Rape" only turned up the Misplaced Pages article that described it. I have made dozens of other important contributions. Other editors have described the quality of my contributions as "excellent."

For some reason, Sam Blanning and Lethe think their personal opinions are infallible.

Only one other block was intended for me. That was by Sam Blanning for putting commentary into an article. I realized someone would see the commentary and correct an error in the article. I was afraid to correct it myself as Lethe was reverting every edit I made. Someone did read the commentary and made the change I requested. Again, this was on one of the first days I was editing Misplaced Pages, and did not know it was wrong.

Instead of Sam Blanning introducing himself and explaining the error I had made, like Lethe he just blocked for 24 hours, and left a nasty note on my talk page. At the time, I didn't even know I had a talk page.

Lethe and Sam Blanning were both as nasty as can be. They were patronizing, condescending and scolding like school marms with PMS. They insulted my writing ability, and belittled my talent.

With administrators like these, it seems to me Misplaced Pages is hell-bent an making enemies and doing all it can to discourage new editors.

> I'm not sure what Michael is spefically referring to, but I'm

> not surprised he's being reverted for edits like these (I myself

> reverted him twice when he was inserting commentary into

> that article). He would be better off trying to understand the

> policy of verifiability instead of spamming everyone in sight

> looking for an "advocate". --Sam Blanning(talk) 22:54, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I understand the Misplaced Pages policy of verifiability very well. I have reliable sources for everything I have added to Misplaced Pages. Just about all my edits have remained in place. Most of what I wanted to get into the Many Worlds article is now there, despite the fact that Lethe assailed everything I added as patently false, and reverted all of it in its entirety.

Now, Sam Blanning and Lethe continue their personal, petty war against me, attacking me every chance they get and making snide remarks.

I thank you for your time, consideration and patience

Warmest and kindest regards, Michael D. Wolok

Michael D. Wolok 02:13, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Without context, your post doesn't make alot of sense to be honest. --Woohookitty 05:57, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

It makes no sense. --Lord Deskana 07:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Contrary to the above claims, I have never blocked Michael for 24 hours or otherwise , and the warnings I gave him related to this edit - actually the first edit only qualified as a warning in the technical sense, as I asked him politely not to insert commentary of articles into the articles themselves and pointed him to Talk:Rape, then when he repeated the edit without response I gave him a stronger warning. Then I gave him a 3RR warning for other edits which was already too late. I've barely interacted with Michael at all since then, although I have been observing his contributions, hence my comments on his behaviour above. I'm also highly bemused that Michael feels I was "as nasty as can be... patronizing, condescending and scolding like with PMS", yet I was one of those he asked to be an advocate for him. . Can't comment on the issues with Lethe, but I expect the rest of Michael's post has an equally tenuous connection to reality. --Sam Blanning 11:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

For those watching from home, I've filed an RfC. -lethe 14:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocking AOL IPs

Dear Wikipedian Administrators,

I could be mistaken but I thought I read somewhere in Misplaced Pages that blocking an AOL IP never targets the intended user. I can't find that reference. Maybe, I am mistaken. I just know, my IP is blocked many times a day, and the block is always for some other user who has done this, that or the other.

I wish someone could help me set up an account that will not mistakenly get blocked, with blocks intended for other users.

Warmest and kindest regards, Michael

Michael D. Wolok 02:23, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• RU's aren't imune from autoblocks actually, so.. --64.12.116.200 02:24, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunatly AOL users are common vandals and AOL IPs have to be blocked to protect us from harm. However, these blocks almost always last no longer than 15 minutes, at which time you should be able to work again. Because of technical limitations currently we can not setup special accounts to let those legitimate users continue their work - even admins.

If you can, changing your ISP will stop your blocking as AOL is setup in a strange way that lends itself to being abused. --mboverload@ 02:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Let me expand on what you said. Vandals can be found at AOL just as they can be found at every other ISP. A large group of Wikipedians who are fortunate to not have AOL don't really care about good editors being blocked, and would rather block lots of good editors than have to deal with reverting vandalism. We need admins with empathy and admins who want to help good editors edit. Tooo many people here would rather kill off good editors as long as some vandels get killed at the same time. Hort Graz 10:55, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome to take my place at the recent changes patrol if you're so for allowing vandals to deface the website. --mboverload@ 01:57, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I can't seem to find the place now, but I am sure I read somewhere on Misplaced Pages that when you block an AOL IP you NEVER target the intended user, that someone else is always blocked, not the intended objective of the block. For some reason, I can't find this place. I think this place also stated AOL blocks should not last more than 15 minutes. Does anyone know where on Misplaced Pages I can find this information again?

I have repeatedly had my AOL IP blocked for over twelve hours at at time. I find my AOL IP blocked on different user discussion pages by different administrators. I can still edit articles but find my AOL IP blocked by administrators who left the Misplaced Pages project months ago. For example, I tried to edit Garzo's discussion page, but found my AOL IP blocked by "Lucky 6.9". When I went to Lucky 6.9's talk page, it was blank. There was just a notice saying he had left the Misplaced Pages project and everyone should leave his talk page blank. In the meantime, I was still able to edit articles.

That block lasted over twelve hours. I tried editing Joanne's discussion page, but found my AOL IP blocked by another administrator. None of these blocks had anything to do with me. All the blocks I encounter now are intended for other users.

AOL has a lot of members so it doesn't surprise me that a lot of vandalism comes from AOL. It seems to me everyone should have to log in with a screen name and password. That wouldn't identify anyone, and would control vandalism. The idea of blocking a range of AOL IPs is worse than any evil that might result from having all users log in with a password.

Your objective to be more inclusive is backfiring!

It is unrealistic to expect AOL users to change their ISP for Misplaced Pages. To the best of my knowlege Misplaced Pages is the only web site on the Internet that gives AOL users a problem.

Warmest and kindest regards, Michael

Michael D. Wolok 06:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

We don't give AOL a problem – they do. I think in the past it's been suggested that you complain to AOL, and not Misplaced Pages. NSLE 06:53, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

We don't have an AOL problem, we have a lazy admin problem. Too many would rather block good users than do the work that could let good editers edit while stopping vandals. A single admin can get frustrated with AOL and ZAP hundreds of good editors at once. That is a lazy and bad admin. Hort Graz 11:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

When we block someone vandalising wikipedia they maybe editing without logging in, if so we know their IP address and normally don't block for more than 15 minutes, we do however sometimes need to block a given address for longer if it is a sustained attack when the initial block (s) finish, normally however the 15 minutes suffices. The blocks I have seen you get caught up in are those where the user vandalises logged in, we block the username. Admins have no way of telling that the username wwas using AOL. The autoblock feature of mediawiki may then cause the IP address to be blocked until manually unblocked. There is no way for an admin to avoid blocking such users, since we simply don't know if it will further affect AOL users.

I appreciate you see it as unrealistic to expect AOL users to change ISP (to a greater or lesser degree I would agree), but it is also unrealistic to expect admins to let vandalism go unabated. As to if wikipedia is the only site which gets problems from AOL, we are large and certainly attract an amount of negative attention from certain AOL users but the aim of the project has always been to be open and so we keep the doors open, if you like those abusing this are the equivelant of those in society who mug old ladies, i.e. they go for a soft target. This doesn't mean that no effort is being expended on trying to resolve the problem, the elusive bug 550 is being worked on to rework the blocking system entirely which will hopefully go someway to sidestepping some of the problems. --pgk 06:59, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

It seems like autoblock does as much harm as it does good, perhaps more. Besides blocking innocent users, it forces them to reveal their IP address to be unblocked, whereas we go to extreme lengths to avoid divulging the IP address of vandals. Perhaps the autoblock should be shutoff until bug 550 is fixed. If the vandal makes a new account, it could simply be blocked when it starts vandalizing. If they edit by IP address instead of creating a new account, they can be given a 15 minute block, repeated as necessary. Alternatively, the autoblock time could be reduced to 15 minutes, which would frustrate vandalizers, but allow innocent users to simply wait it out instead of revealing their IP address. -- Kjkolb 07:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

If you inform someone quick enough, then you don't need to reveal your IP. Admins can go to Special:Ipblocklist and look up the autoblock, and unblock the autoblock ID, which is just a number, not an IP address. However, if you sit around for a while before doing anything about it, then you do have to reveal your IP. --Lord Deskana 13:31, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

How quick do they have to be? If it very quickly becomes too late (10 to 30 minutes), then even making a long edit without loading any pages may force the person to reveal his or her IP address. However, there is a very good chance that the person will not even be editing at the time of the block. If he or she starts editing 2, 8 or 16 hours later, will it be too late? Also, the instructions on the block message tell you to reveal your IP address, I think, because it says "IP address that is reported in the block text", not the masked number.

Blocking a user who is unaware of autoblocking is particularly bad, since they may think that they have been blocked for making perfectly good edits or that they have been blocked for making an unintentional mistake. While some indication of an autoblock may be given, it's best not to overestimate the knowledge of users, their technical competence and the probability that they will read and understand notices, instructions and warnings. I had to constantly reword and otherwise modify the somewhat popular website I run (9,000 members, many thousands of relevant, unique Google results and tens of million of visitors (I'm the sole admin, but did not create the site)) because of this problem. It has been refined about as much as possible, but a few people still manage to screw things up, although the frequency has been greatly reduced.

Finally, the Autoblock page says that IP blocks are sometimes extremely long, even indefinite, if the account has been indefinitely blocked. Except for open proxies, indefinite bans on IP addresses are prohibited. It would be necessary for a user to reveal his or her IP address to get such a long block removed, unless they happened to be around when it occurred and knew that it isn't necessary to reveal your IP address if you act quickly, as waiting it out would not be an option.

Luckily for me, my ISPs have given me a new IP address whenever the old one has been exposed and I have been able to change ISPs when necessary. Perhaps autoblocked users who want to keep their IP address private should be told to ask their ISP to give them a new IP address after it has been revealed in order to remove an autoblock. The disadvantage of this is that some information about the person may be attainable with the old IP address, such as the ISP and the user's general location. They could also change it to simply avoid the autoblock. Doing that won't help vandals much, since it usually takes a while to get it changed and an ISP is unlikely to constantly change a user's IP address. Another solution would be to have a form that a user enters his or her IP address into that gives a masked number that could be used in an unblock request. -- Kjkolb 09:10, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Advice to AOL users suggest HTTPS connections. Does that still work to bypass AOL proxies? As for the main topic, I have seen vandals putting summaries as "I have AOL and can't be blocked" or similar. I believe 15 minutes blocks are justified. It is the price for having an "anonymous can edit" policy instead of a "registration required" one, a collateral damage as it is usually explained in TV. Let's hope Willy on Wheels will never use AOL services. -- ReyBrujo 15:51, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Please read: Some people do not get that when we get raped in the ass by an AOL vandal, we BLOCK THEM. You do not seem to understand the gravity of the situation. I'll record my screen next time we get hit by a sophisticated AOL vandal and you'll see why. BLOCKING AN IP RANGE DOES NOT BLOCK ALL OF AOL. We have to PROTECT ourselves and asking us to take the bullet for you is too much to ask some times. If you would like to pick up recent changes patrol, I'll let you ride along as you watch Misplaced Pages be defaced before your eyes by ONE user that we can't stop because the the AOL rules. --mboverload@ 21:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

We've all been sick of AOLs shit for the longest time. It bears repeating, If you have AOL, and you have problems editing, complain to AOL, not us. This may have been asked in the past, but why haven't we instituted a similar scheme that Wiktionary uses? --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 09:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The secured server is in place; however, it can't handle the load. Misplaced Pages is quite significantly larger than Wiktionary, though I agree entirely that this is the best solution, and as such have been campaigning for some time. AmiDaniel (talk) 09:37, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh please. You people act like this is all that comes out of AOL. The vast majority of AOL edits are good edits. Blocking that is akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I've done my share of vandal fighting, it's expected of everyone. But when all you do all day is look for vandals then all you ever see are vandals. This us vs. them philosophy is fundamentally wrong. It fosters an attitude of 'were better then everyone else'. Everyone is who is building this encyclopedia. We have vandals, yes, but we have many more good edits, orders of magnitude more, coming from these IP's and its this elitism thats dangerous to this project, not these common, come and go vandals that are easily reverted. -M 11:18, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

all true. Except, how is it elitism to block vandals as they come? We get a sophisticated vandal on an AOL range, we block that AOL range. We get a sophisticated vandal on an ISP of Burkina Faso, we block that. The whole point is that AOL is not sacrosanct: AOL ranges should be treated the same as any other range: incoming vandalism results in temporary blocks, end of story. dab (ᛏ) 17:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Why not display a message when a Misplaced Pages page is accessed from an AOL IP number asking them to connect to https://en.wikipedia.org (or the https:// version of the current page) for "a more reliable connection" or a similar euphemism for an IP-specific connection? TruthbringerToronto 18:00, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

IANADeveloper, but when this issue has come up before, apparently HTTPS puts extra strain on the servers. Wiktionary can do it, because very few people actually Wiktionary compared to Misplaced Pages. smurrayinchester 18:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

JumpTV spamming by User:Headeditor42

Headeditor42 (talk · contribs) has created a huge number of articles with text "Watch <insert channel name> on JumpTV". The user has been warned for spamming, but claims this type of promotional campaign is valid since the user is only linking to internal JumpTV article (which contains a single promo paragraph and a huge list of a large number of TV channels, some of which are not even provided by the company). Does WP:SPAM prohibit such internal commercial spamming? --Ragib 01:01, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Not only that, articles created by the user with a few sentences are all cut-paste jobs from JumpTV's website. For example, Balle Balle is a cut paste job from . My guess is that this is just another attempt by an overzealous publicist to promote an organization. --Ragib 01:47, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Here is an update on this: I got an email this morning from JumpTV's online marketing division. The Director of online marketing apologized for the behavior of Headeditor42 (talk · contribs) (who is an employee of JumpTV). However, the Director also requested whether an internal link to JumpTV can be provided in the "existing" TV station related pages, since JumpTV is the only online Internet TV provider for the corresponding TV channels. Now, what's the policy on such links? It would be great if other admins could look into the links , and whether this request from the director is ok regarding internal links to JumpTV in the "see also" sections of TV channel pages. Thanks. --Ragib 20:04, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

User:PierrreLarcin2

I think an admin needs to review the behaviour of User:PierreLarcin2 and his IPs in relation to the edit war on Rotary International, and consider a block. Incidentally, since I started reviewing this, I see the user I'm complaining about has put in an RfC and claims to intend to start an arbitration. If true, I'd suggest that any block should permit him to pursue those, even if (as I'd recommend) he cannot edit at Rotary International for a time. A review of his behaviour took me far longer than I'd expected, but can be summarised as follows: POV editing: . Illiterate editing: . Just plain weird editing: . Advocating POV: (especially the motherfucker comment). Failure to assume good faith: . Breaches of the no personal attacks policy and civility policy: . Accusations that editors who change his edits are Rotarians engaged in a conspiracy against criticisms of Rotary: . Wikilawyering, and accusations of "wiki-fiddling", whatever that may be: . Evidence User:PierreLarcin2 and 84.100.98... IPs are one and the same (about halfway down):. Evidence User:PierreLarcin2 and 84.102.229... IPs are one and the same: . Evidence of trying the patience of the community: . An odd piece of duplicity was the argument that these strange "how to use the links"-links were there to assist blind users, which led me in good faith and (in consultation with User:127) to initiate Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)#Accessibility for blind users (now fallen out of archive). In fact, these edits, and a few around them, make clear the actual intention was to give prominence to "bad" Rotarians like Pinochet and Hubbard. On the whole, I think the guy needs a lengthy block: he's disruptive, he's uncivil, he angers and attacks people, he adds bullshit to wikipedia, and he just fundamentally doesn't get it: but it's a shame: he seems kinda genuine in his own beliefs. AndyJones 13:15, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I am getting very annoyed here - this is getting WAY too personal - . Bridesmill 01:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

72.68.171.211 versus WP:NPA

Could an adminstrator please clarify for 72.68.171.211 what constitutes a personal attack here at Misplaced Pages; I think they are unclear on this. See the bottom of Talk:Democratic Underground#"External Links" for several examples of their work.

Atlant 14:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

They are likely unclear what a personal attack is becuase they have never been warned. I have warned them about their only two edits. Iolakana| 16:17, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you.

For the record, please note that 72.68.176.238 and 72.68.173.75 also appear to be the same person as 72.68.171.211.

Atlant 16:19, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Unfinished Afd Attempt for Ben_Burch by User:72.68.176.238

Hi! Looks like some more nastiness from some of my detractors. In this case some IP user listed the article about me for deletion, but only went as far as to put the header on the page, and did not add the topic to pages for deletion or start a discussion thread about it. Sorry to be such a PITA, guys. BenBurch 16:02, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous can't AFD articles, as they can't just finish the process. I believe you could remove the tag and explain in the talk page that, in order to AFD it, the user needs to create an account. -- ReyBrujo 16:11, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism of Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Ben Burch (2nd nomination) by User:Alabamaboy

Hi! I reverted these edits already, but I bring this up here because this person is an admin. Do admins have some exemption from the rule of not editing comments into closed AfDs? If so, then let me know, and I'll happily undo my reversion. BenBurch 18:18, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Alabamaboy's edit included the reason for his edits to that page. I don't understand why either party is edit-warring over this, or why it can't be worked out between the two of you. Jkelly 18:23, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The talk page would be the right place for such comments, right? My only concern is that these are never supposed to be edited, and I wondered if there was an exception for admins? (I didn't know he was an admin before I reverted, BTW.) BenBurch 18:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the talk page of the article is a perfectly good place to put comments about the old AfD, or the AfD talk page. I don't feel there's any exception for admins to edit closed discussions, though I could be wrong... -GTBacchus 18:32, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me--vandalism? I merely made a notation on the page about the probable use of sockpuppets in the voting so that if the article comes up for another AfD editors can be aware of the sockpuppets (which voted in both of the last two AfDs for the article and have made few other edits to Misplaced Pages). While it is not standard procedure to edit an AfD after it is closed, in this case I felt it was warranted and I added a notice of what I'd done to the closing editor's talk page (see the note here). I also can not be said to be edit-warring over the item because I have not reverted BenBurch's deletion. Because this possible sockpuppet use has occured with both AfDs on this article, I felt the talk page was not an appropriate place to put the notice. That said, if the consensus is that this is not appropriate I will accept that consensus. I must protest the vandalism charge and feel it is wrong to make that claim against me. --Alabamaboy 18:38, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) On the other hand, "vandalism" is entirely the wrong word to describe Alabamaboy's edits. It's hard to imagine that he's trying to make the encyclopedia worse by editing a closed AfD, quite the contrary. Let's not get into the habit of calling things vandalism when they aren't. -GTBacchus 18:40, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, my assumption was that editing anything that says on it that it is uneditable is vandalism. I retract that word. BenBurch 18:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

It's an honest mistake. See Misplaced Pages:Vandalism (policy) and maybe Misplaced Pages:On assuming good faith (essay) for more on what is and isn't considered vandalism here, if you're interested. -GTBacchus 19:05, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Always interested! Thanks BenBurch 19:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate that. Since you object to adding that information to the AfD page, its fine with me if it stays off that page. Instead, I will place information about the use of sockpuppets and other AfD irregularities on the talk pages of The White Rose Society (website) and Ben Burch. This way future editors will know of this information if they bring an AfD up on either of these articles. Best, --Alabamaboy 18:53, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

This is the comment I have added to the article talk pages: "The White Rose Society (website) and Ben Burch have been involved in previous Articles for Deletion discussions which have involved the use of sockpuppets and attempts to "stuff the ballot" (even though AfDs are not a vote and these attemtps do not matter to the outcome). Possible sockpuppets include Sweetm2475 and InvictusNox. Anyone attempting to bring an AfD against either of these articles, or attempting to have discussions regarding these articles, should be aware of this fact." Best, --Alabamaboy 18:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Yep! Thats where it belongs! BenBurch 19:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Cesar Tort and Ombudsman vs others

This arbitration case has closed.

Ombudsman is placed indefinitely on Probation. He may be banned by any administrator for good cause from any article concerning a medical subject which he disrupts by tendentious editing. All bans to be logged at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Cesar Tort and Ombudsman vs others#Log of blocks and bans.

Cesar Tort is cautioned to limit critical material to that supported by reliable scientific authority.

Delivered on behalf of the Arbitration Committee as clerk. I take no part in making these decisions. --Tony Sidaway 18:43, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Routine unprotection of George W. Bush results

Today George W. Bush went through the usual ritual of temporary unprotection, for seven hours. Here are the results of today's experiment:

• 10 anonymous edits which were reverted (counting sucessive edits by the same address as one)
• 2 anonymous edits which were not reverted:
  • 1 of them removed some information, but I've not checked whether it improved the article
  • 1 of them shuffled a couple of words to add a wikilink
• 1 non-anonymous edit (not reverted)
• 10 reverts:
  • 1 manual revert
  • 6 rollback-style
  • 2 using VandalSniper
  • 1 using popups
• Average time before being reverted: 1.9 minutes

--cesarb 18:58, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Good (that is, statistic wise) - the other revert time was three minutes. Iolakana| 16:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Washington post linkspam...

Downtown dan seattle (talk · contribs) has placed a ton of links to projects.washingtonpost.com. Now, the links he's been adding are actually relevant to the articles.... but he's added them to about 40-50 politician's articles and it accounts for more then 90% of his contributions to wikipedia. I'm worried that Dan works for the washingtonpost and is attempting to drive up traffic to his bosses' website. On the other hand, it could just be a new user who found a useful resource and decided to add it everywhere. Not real sure... Some administrator attention needs to be paid to dan. ---J.S (t|c) 19:44, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd say the links are legit b/c they are individual links to each member's voting record. I'm going to assume good faith and go with the new user who found a useful resource.--Alabamaboy 19:57, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

As long as the links appended are relevant and encyclopedic (per WP:EL, etc.), I can't imagine that the user's intent matters here (although I agree with Alabama that we should assume good faith); if he desires to drum up business for the Washington Post but undertakes to do so in a fashion that benefits the encyclopedia and doesn't result in the inappropriate external link spamming of pages, I think we'd be fine with that. Joe 05:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

User VB bof

A new user User:VB bof is making in rapid tempo many seemingly random reversions to sometimes much older versions using popups. --Lambiam 01:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Now I'm convinced that these edits were all vandalism, so I'll go through and revert them (and probably indef block User:VB bof also). Andy _t 01:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

According to Xaosflux the issue has been taken care of. --Lambiam 01:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

He came back as VBandal (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and was indef blocked by both Cyde and GraemeL. Kimchi.sg 06:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Editprotected

I would just like to point out that admins very rarely check Category:Misplaced Pages protected edit requests, and requests can often go unnoticed for some time. There are two pages listed in that category now, but MediaWiki talk:Common.css has multiple requests on it, and MediaWiki talk:Edittools has one request. —Mets501 (talk) 01:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Malformed AfD

As a new admin, I have absolutely no clue what to do with Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Nazo, which was listed again today. Is it G4 if the previous deletion was for crystal-ballism? What should be done with the re-formed AfD? I would appreciate it if a more experience admin came in to deal with the situation. - CrazyRussian talk/email 01:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I think having a new debate makes some sense, the article is somewhat better than the previously deleted one although there are still mostly rumors. I will try and refactor the nomination using {{afdx}} and a new AfD page. Kusma (討論) 01:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Just for clarity, the current nomination is at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Nazo (2nd nomination). The above link is the original AfD. -- nae'blis _(talk) 14:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Rbanzai

Please direct your attention to the discussion taking place at User_talk:Rbanzai. I need to convince this user to change his ways, because his signature it way too similar to another user's. Assistance would be appreciated. - CrazyRussian talk/email 02:17, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I have done nothing wrong and this admin has seemingly plucked me out of cyberspace to harass me about my user name. He has used the word "impersonate" incorrectly. It does not mean "names that look similar" it means "To assume the character or appearance of, especially fraudulently." I am not assuming anyone's character and did not even know about the existence of the other user. The other user and I have nothing to do with each other. Our names looks similar. That's it. A single click by anyone would make it clear who I am. This kind of pressure should be applied to someone who is impersonating another user which I am clearly not doing.Anon Y. Mouse 02:22, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the concern is that your signature name is too close to a user's username. In this case, User:AnonEMouse. Your current user name, User:Rbanzai, is fine and all that is apparently being asked of you is that you change the signature. I will agree, however, that perhaps the comments left on your user page were far too harsh and there was a more positive way that this issue could be approached by CrazyRussian. -- Joe Beaudoin Jr. 02:46, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It's too late, Joe. I appreciate your comments and wish you had been the person to bring this up in the first place. I completely melted down on my Discussion page which only gave CrazyRussian another excuse to talk tough with me. I wish I had not exploded like that but I really felt like someone came from out of nowhere and treated me as if I had been doing something wrong, and that I needed to have immediate pressure applied to me. That was never the case. Thanks again, Joe, for acting like a thoughtful Wiki-citizen. I appreciate it. Anon Y. Mouse 21:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You are only human. Had I been a new Misplaced Pages user myself, I may have reacted in the same way. As a member of the community, I can't apologize for the actions of CrazyRussian, becuase that's for him to do -- and I fully disagree with how he approached the subject of your signature... because he clearly assumed bad faith in this case, as demonstrated by his wording to you. Obviously, if you need any help from me, feel free to ask. Even if you need to vent. -- Joe Beaudoin Jr. 03:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Isn't this an abuse of block and violation of block policy?

As a consequence of this edit User:MONGO took the decision to block me for 24 hours. His motivation are explained here where he says that "my POV pushing days are numbered" and conclude the discussion threating to block me for a week if I will ever dare to revert him again. Now let's fix some points:

1. User:MONGO was not an "independent observer": he was already taking part to a content dispute on the opportunity of describing the "controlled demolition theorists" as "conspiracists";
2. the dispute involved several people in both the party as you can see looking at and keeping pressing "newer edit";
3. User: MONGO was supporting a change to the old version of the article (so he needed the consensus) while I was supporting the old version;
4. In the block policy you can read the following paragraph:

Use of blocks to gain an advantage in a content dispute is strictly prohibited. That is, sysops must not block editors with whom they are currently engaged in a content dispute.

So I think it's clear that User: MONGO did violate the block policy realizing an abuse of power. Isn't it? What can I do to defend myself from this kind of abuses? Is there an authority that can prevent User: MONGO from behaving in this way? --Pokipsy76 06:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd say your POV-pushing days are numbered, myself. Take it to talk and achieve consensus for the change, rather than unilaterally reverting. Just zis Guy you know? 19:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You clearly don't know what you are speaking about:

1. I was not changing the article, I was keeping it
2. I was not the only one trying to keep the article as it was
3. MONGO didn't had the consensus for his changes and for his reverts
4. Even if what you have said was right (and it is not) it would be not sufficient to justify a block when involved in the content dispute.

--Pokipsy76 19:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't matter how many people were fighting for the change, it is contentious. Like I say, take it to talk. You appear to be under the common misapprehension tat pushing a POV is when other people assert their viewpoints. Pushing is pushing. Just zis Guy you know? 15:14, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the admin should have found another admin to do the block if he beleived it was reasonable. Even if one assumes that User:MONGO was not trying to use his powers to win a debate, it certainly creates the perception that this is happening. Admins need to be kept to a higher standard and should never take action against a person they are currently in a content dispute with. This is my opinion and to my knowledge is compatable with wikipedia guidelines Block_policy#When_blocking_may_not_be_used. HighInBC 18:57, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Ben Burch (3rd nomination)

Ben Burch afd has started again. I'd apreciate it if a few admins could add it to there watchlist and help keep some of the vandels/trolls out? Thanks! ---J.S (t|c) 07:07, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! BenBurch 16:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Rdos user page

Rdos (talk · contribs) wrote an original research article on his "Neanderthal theory of autism", which was deleted (more than once it my reading of things is correct). He now keeps it at his user page. Proto and I have both asked him to remove it, as it is offensive to some editors who are autistic or Aspies. He refuses at this point. Before I up the pressure I'd appreciate some others having a look. Just zis Guy you know? 07:12, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

If there are objections, user pages are not the place to put deleted content. I'd say the content should be deleted. --Deathphoenix ʕ 14:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The idea that this material is "offensive" to some autistics basically has no merit. I propose that Just zis Guy you know? explains why most large autistic sites have a link to the Neanderthal theory? What many autistics *do* get offended by is Causes of autism and Autism therapies, so I suggest to remove them instead. --Rdos 07:07, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I removed the content, since Rdos refuses. Just zis Guy you know? 07:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Imthehappywanderer's category creation

A new user (User:Imthehappywanderer) has been busy creating a lot of categories by simply creating them within themselves. Obviously, most of them are a complete mess to deal with. I've tried to fix some but I'm just wondering if others could help either fix the categories or simply delete the ones that don't make sense. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 07:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for investigation

The question has been raised on Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for investigation about the purpose of that page, and if it's redundant to ANI. Personally I think it serves an important role filling a niche in between WP:AIV and WP:ANI, as explained in my reply to brenneman on the RFI talk page. It would be good to get other admins input into that discussion though, is it a useful page to have around? If so it could do with some more admins watching that page and acting on reports posted there. Might be better to reply over there to keep discussion together. Petros471 08:26, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Userpage advertising

Today I came across User:Nutrovitastar who has a user page that consists of nothing but advertising; there are no other contributions to Misplaced Pages from this user beyond the ad page. This seems like an inappropriate use of Misplaced Pages, so I brought it here for an admin to take a look. Thanks. --Ed (Edgar181) 13:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Page deleted (instead of just blanked) and username blocked as advertising NutroVita. RadioKirk (u|t|c) 14:19, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

BenH...again

BenH is back to screwing up "contributing" to TV station articles. The 24-hour block didn't do anything, so I think we need a harsher block so this tool "misguided contributor" doesn't "contribute" to any more TV station articles. He's testing the patience of everyone at WP:TVS. Block him, for the love of God. --CFIF (talk to me) 15:27, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

What is wrong with adding dates in place of years to articles, as a matter of interest? Just zis Guy you know? 19:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Because they are unsourced and likely complete farce. We are also tired of some of the other things he does. Tell me which revision is better. He consistently degrades articles. It's bad. --CFIF (talk to me) 19:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree that his changes need to be sourced, but I don't agree that anything he's done rises to the level of a block. Also, it looks like the work that he's doing to the categories is correct. And, if the information he's providing can be shown as correct, I actually prefer his diff on the article link you provided. Sue Anne 19:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Well the station doesn't brand as "upn9" and didn't at the time of the revert. I'm sure if you asked every member of WP:TVS, they'd tell you the same thing, his edits take good articles and lower the quality, also, the "Television stations in *state*" wasn't supposed to be added to articles at the time, but it appears that new "*Network* affiliates by state" templates have the stations included in the category. He is a major pain, but obviously the admins can't see it. --CFIF (talk to me) 19:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention that he stubs articles that are way past stubs. Explain how that's constructive. This policy makes all this a sufficient reason to block him. --CFIF (talk to me) 19:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

BenH should be blocked for good. I myself have fixed some of his "edits" so that they read better or were more accurate. If BenH can prove he can constructively contribute, then this won't be a problem anymore, but right now it is. So just block BenH for good, and everything will be better. CoolKatt number 99999 18:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I am so tired of BenH! PLEASE BAN HIM! Thank You! --CFIF (talk to me) 22:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Why are the admins ignoring the community's requests to block him. I have yet to see a positive contribution from this user. We keep telling him to go away but he will not. --CFIF (talk to me) 19:18, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Please, for the love of God, ban him! --CFIF (talk to me) 23:34, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Because "the community" in this case seems to amount to you. Tedious though he may be, I don't see a pressing reason to block at this point - please go through the steps in WP:DR. Just zis Guy you know? 09:13, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Now how am I able to talk to this dolt if he NEVER responds to messages. I have had it with the admins ignoring our concerns, and I started an RfC. And look, there is more than one signature, so it does appear that this is a community affair like I said, and not something that seems to amount to me. --CFIF (talk to me) 12:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Help in massive deletion needed

Imthehappywanderer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) created quite a few circular categories. I started deleting them and then noticed there were more than THOUSAND created during 6 hours! Looks like he was running a bot. I blocked him for a while.

Now I need help in undoing his work. If someone of admins has some one-click tools or some spare time, please help. `'mikka (t) 15:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

This incident is also listed on both WP:CFD and WP:SFD. It is possible that he might have used the Special:Wantedcategories and created everything he saw. Unfortunately, a lot of entries on that page are nothing but errors. It pretty much looks like nothing has been properly sorted, so it's a giant mess. For what I can see, he's been blocked permanently. Valentinian 16:29, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

It looks like that is exactly what he did -- the entries on Special:Wantedcategories from about no. 300 to no. 800 are all on happywanderer's list. NawlinWiki 20:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't see a real HELP!!!! here. The mess must be cleaned up by several admins. I alone cannot revert all what a bot have done in 6 hours. Some editors already fixed some of his categories, so a manual inspection is necessary, i.e., it cannot be reverted in anti-bot-like manner. `'mikka (t) 17:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'll lend a hand if someone helps clarify what needs to be done. Should we speedy delete all the categories he created, or do we have to go through and determine which ones are actually useful and place them in existing hierarchies? That's a lot of work. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 17:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

These categories were red and hence attracted attention of people who could fix them. Also sometimes this user made wrong categories, like putting fish into people (probably cut and paste in wrong place, so I guess it was a semi-bot). So speedily deleting them is not evil. However if you can place them it is useful. So I suggest

1. Check is this user is the only editor of the category (i.e., the "(top)" label in his contribution list is not enough)
2. Try to place it
3. If you cannot fix it quickly, just delete it.

Of course, proper placement in all cases would be better, but this guy corrupted a HUGE number of categories, so IMO better to undo this quickly. ::`'mikka (t) 19:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointers — that will help. Alas, real life calls, so I can't get into it now, but I'll try to lend a hand tonight when I get back. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 19:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm working on these -- about half of them are good categories that need placing, and about half are duplicates (i.e. "French singer" for "French singers") that need emptying and speedying. These don't strictly meet the speedy criterion (i.e., empty for 4 days) but I have had good luck getting them speedied if you mark them "circular category, emptied and deleted" or the like. NawlinWiki 19:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

They have to be speedied because they are resut of the work of a vandal bot, not a honest editor. The longer bad category remains blue the higher is chance that it becomes more populated and hence more work to undo it (if a category is red when I type it, I know something is wrong (like with your "French singer" example), but if it is blue, I suspect nothing wrong). So I suggest a merciless deletion here. `'mikka (t) 22:08, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The easiest way is to go through his contributions and look at the ones where he's the last editor. Else, they been fixed somewhat. Also, I don't take it personally but why is everyone paying attention now and not at my earlier note? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:03, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

no idea, but the work is done now. pschemp | talk 05:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course, I get back and the work is finished. Oh, well. (Incidentally, I notice that the category edits aren't even showing up in imthehappywanderer's contribs any more. How did that happen?) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 07:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Deleted items do not, IIRC, show up in contribution history. I am sorry I did not help. As I said on AN/I, I looked at some of the created cats but was not sure what to do so did nothing. ++Lar: t/c 12:15, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

That's correct. Once an artilce or category or image is deleted, any contribs to it do not show up anymore in a person's contrib list. You have to look at the deletion log to see what was removed. pschemp | talk 12:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Foggy and Sparky

I am sorely tempted to speedy-delete Foggy and Sparky (hippopotamus) under A7; but technically it doesn't apply since A7 is for articles "about a real person, group of people, band, or club that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject", but it isn't clear whether the definition of "person" is restricted to H. sapiens. Thoughts? User:Angr 20:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Merge to Calgary Zoo. Foggy should probably be then redirected to Fog. Purely editorial decisions; no need to use any admin buttons. Jkelly 21:00, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Johnny the Vandal

Hmmm.... could be a joke, but looks like something to me: . Freddie _Message? 00:48, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I gave the account an indefinite block. His first edits were for his own RfA, indicating he is familiar with Misplaced Pages. Then he added some accounts to Johhny the Vandal's long term abuse page. His final edits were to talk pages claiming that he is Johnny the Vandal. If anyone wants to unblock or change the time, it's fine with me. -- Kjkolb 01:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Fake copyright tags

There are dozens of images uploaded by User:system Halted, User:-Inanna- and User:Metb82 among others. They are taggedeither "all right released" or some "Creative commons" variant. However the license of Wowturkey is NONCOMMERCIAL/WITH PERMISSION ONLY. as it's described here: Image:Kavaklidere_Ankara.jpg or Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Turkey#Photos from wowturkey.com. Turkey involved people have asked for us not to speedy them, but there are literally hundreds of them (I've removed about 100 today, many to go) with phony licenses or marked NC, and it's unlikely Wowturkey.com will release all his images for commercial use under GFDL. So I just want to give you a heads up. Here's a quick list of my latest findings:

I think I mistakenly tagged some of them (since I initially thought they were all from system Halted. The point however, is that all of those are not creative commons licensed images. -- Drini 00:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for taking on this mess. Jkelly 01:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

It's been a busy day, removing images from pages before killing them. If after a month WT hasn't released the images, they're not liekly to do it. They're speediable by jimbo's rule, and now that undelete for image exxists, should they ever become GFDL or CC, we can restore them. Meanwhile, they're not suitable for wikipedia nd I'll be removing them during this week -- Drini 01:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Global adminbacklog messages

I just finished a quick JS script for monobook that adds a blue "message-like" bar that lists all non image related backlogs, such as CSD and RFPP (assuming they are tagged), whenever you are logged in. There is no bar if there are none, but there usually are. Off course, it can be fined tuned to only show certain types.Voice-of-All 01:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

And, oh voice of us all... where can we get it? 01:19, 23 June 2006 (UTC) (comment by Drini)

Its currently embedded in this.Voice-of-All 02:03, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/PoolGuy

This arbitration case has closed.

PoolGuy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) is restricted to one user account, and placed indefinitely on probation. He may be banned from editing any article that he disrupts.

To aid enforcement, his checkuser details have been logged by User:Fred Bauder.

For the arbitration committee. I take no part in making these decisions. --Tony Sidaway 02:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

User:CrnaGora

..made a personal attack on me here. He said "...you idot". Could someone do something? --70.79.13.144 03:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Adding a comment in the user's talk page should be enough, unless the user has a background of personal attacks. Tell him that he should make no personal attacks, and that he should stay cool and civil. If he continues, you can request an administrator to review his behaviour. Most times users do understand they have been wrong and apologize, or at least, they stop making such comments. -- ReyBrujo 04:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

But... he's made personal attacks before, I noticed from his talk page, he was warned (). I warned him too, but whats to stop him from doing it again? --70.79.13.144 04:45, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

What is an idot? sorry couldn't resist Mike _{(T C)} 20:50, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I like this statement, "Got that you damn Serb (No offense, though)," which makes no sense at all since he could have easily said something non-offensive like "do you understand". -- Kjkolb 21:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, isn't anyone going to do something about this user? --70.79.13.144 22:06, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

The comment I made to the person was made because I was getting mad with that guy who kept editing that page. He kept taking out stuff and changing stuff on the page. Also on Bormalagurski's talk page, I made that comment because he kept changing the User cg template to User is, which got me very pissed off. After that comment, he made compromise, Thank God. I really am sorry for making those comments but whenever someone pisses me off, I do that. Crna Gora 03:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I kept taking out stuff and changing stuff on the page? Isn't that called editing? So, when someone makes an edit you don't like, you get mad and that allows you to call people idiots and damn Serbs? I accept your appology now, but you have to control your emotions and we can't tolerate this forever. I wish you all the best, and in hoping that you change, peace out. --KOCOBO 05:17, 24 June 2006 (UTC) (I registered)

Hello

I'd like to change my username, cuz this one is not made up of latin characters. Change it to something like Kosovo or KOCOBO or K-O-C-O-B-O. Thanks, --Косово 04:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Please follow the instructions on Misplaced Pages:Changing username. Conscious 05:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Quote from that page: "If you have very few edits, it is far quicker to just create a new account.", which in this case (~4 edits inluding the one above) appears the thing to do. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 13:19, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Some inappropriate usernames

Here are a few likely inappropriate usernames that were registered recently but not blocked:

• penisdaddy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Capn Crack is a perverted sicko! (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• pissenlit (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Xbox360sucks (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Thirteenstepsx (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

You also might consider looking at Oral caress (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and As I drink nectar from thy fair bosom... (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). The names don't seem very harmful to me but may still violate the policy of alluding to sexual acts.--Conrad Devonshire 06:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

All above in the list are now username blocked -- Tawker 06:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Here are some more:

• horselover00 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Delicate lesbian kiss... (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)--Conrad Devonshire 06:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Delicate blocked, Horselover is not an inappropriate username. I mean, I'm not overly keen on horses myself, but I wouldn't say liking them merits an indefinite block.--Sam Blanning 08:14, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Sam, but a point of note for people posting here when using the vandal template: please make sure the username has the first letter capitalised, otherwise using the block user link from this page will not work. I had to re-block User:Penisdaddy and User:Pissenlit because no block was in effect. Maybe the Special:Blockip page should be fixed so that registered usernames are automatically capitalised in the relevant textbox, anyone experienced in filing Bugzilla requests? --Cactus.man ✍ 09:37, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Template fixed. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 13:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

French definition of pissenlit] (a dandelion)moink 15:33, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Here are some more:

• Negrus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Moderator.Seraphim (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Captaincrappyjacks (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Poo601 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)Conrad Devonshire 15:58, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Moderator blocked. Prodego 18:14, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

• 百家姓之四 (talk · contribs)

Please hold off blocking this guy, he appears to be making good faith contributions, is responding to his talk page messages, and I have asked him to make a change of username request. Kimchi.sg 05:12, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Holywarrior (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This user has recently nominated the page Misplaced Pages:Counter-Vandalism Unit for deletion, claiming that it has "spawned users such as VandalPatrol and PandalPetrol" and "acts as an interacting platform for organised vandalism". By "organised vandalism", he means warning or blocking him for his own acts of vandalism or policy violations. According to Frymaster, he has created several POV-pushing pages related to the caste system and removed db-attack templates from them and labeling them as vandalism. He has also labeled several users who have warned or blocked him as vandals or sockpuppets of other users and created a userpage on a certain IP stating that it is a sockpuppet of VandalPatrol. Due to this user's history of trolling, this nomination is obviouly in bad faith and in my opinion it should be speedily closed and this user should recieve a block.--Conrad Devonshire 15:41, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Frymaster is a liar where he found "he has created several POV-pushing pages'" I challenge him to name a few.Holywarrior 05:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

removed db-attack templates from them and labeling them as vandalism---Mr Frymaster what else do you call when an anonymous not involved in any kind of talk or contribution deletes the whole page and tags attack, and why should it not be reverted.Holywarrior 05:45, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

For further explanation of allegations plz see .But will these ppl face any trial for having put up bad faith discussion on me. Holywarrior 06:50, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

By "organised vandalism", he means warning or blocking him for his own acts of vandalism or policy violations.----No by organised vandalism I mean instigating vandalism and then backing him,Actions of user:Mike Rosoft is suspect in this case.He even had talk with vandal before and after the event.Can you tell when was I warned or blocked by any credible person.Pasting block message on someones page for no cause or warning are itself vandalism do you want to differ.Holywarrior 07:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the user should receive an indefinite block. "Holywarrior" is not really an appropriate name in most contexts, let alone trying to build a neutral encyclopedia. So I say we make him pick a new username. --Cyde↔Weys 16:44, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

either block him for trolling, or politely ask him to pick a new username so he can keep his edits if he likes. Blocking him for his username in response to trolling seems a bit arbitrary. dab (ᛏ) 17:29, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not in response to trolling, this is simply the first time I've seen the name. Bad usernames are blocked regardless of whether or not they are trolling; are you implying that if they are trolling then we shouldn't username block them?! --Cyde↔Weys 17:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I think a block for the username would not be misplaced, nor would action for trollery/disruption. Ian¹³/t 20:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I have no respect for lazy,arrogant admins.I need explanation from both these admins where did I vandalize and where did I troll.I do blv CVU need to change itself,it was just unfortunate they discuss "holywarrior" only during discussion and sweeped all the dirt under the carpet.Never ever think of bullying someone,at least I am not the guy to be bullied by these ........ admins.Holywarrior 07:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

See here how these ppl shamelessly protected themselves.CVU deletion may be revived again..plz check history because these ppl keep on erasing my comments to suit their vandal interest.Holywarrior 05:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC).I think I have answered all the questions raised against me.But what about Devonshire and company.They need to proove themselves and their organisation in question.Your Bad manners are furthered by your Bad manners alone.Holywarrior 05:17, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

If ever blocked for username,I want answer for these questions.Holywarrior 05:38, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

mboverload@ teaches Holy Warrior how to use spellcheck.

if ppl involved in discussion don't have answers but have conscience,I propose to them to put warning tag on their page by themselves. sometimes satan misleads even wisest of individuals.Holywarrior 08:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

FOR RECORD:All of them failed to show they have either of the two.Holywarrior 07:34, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

As a totally uninvolved user, I gave Holywarrior (talk · contribs) a WP:NPA warning over his calling another user "third rate liar". Since then, he has been harrassing me calling me an admin-bully, and to "gang up against" him, and finally he issued a threat against me saying "Do you know what you deserve .". I believe such disruptive behavior (and a look at his contribution, which mostly contains similar threats/comments/bad-faith edits)deserve a block for disruption. Thanks. --Ragib 14:38, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Plz look here for true story ,Rajib has deleberately presented in the manner which may be misleading .Holywarrior 15:18, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, please take a look at his User:Holywarrior user page being used as an attack page. I'd request such personal attacks to be removed. Thanks. --Ragib 14:40, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Dear Rajib Plz don't pretend to be non-involved in this case.Infact you were one who were waiting for the opportunity to post a block on me.Your warnings were one sided being an admin why you failed to take similar action against others engaged in more heinous act even when you were shown who were these.You were retending to be on wikibreak.My userpage is not attack page ,It contains true story of how I was attacked by reckless admins one of whom are you.Holywarrior 14:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I suggest you remove your attack page, this is against wikipedia's policy. As I referred above, you deserved a WP:NPA for calling another editor "a 3rd grade liar". Please refrain from making funny remarks about me "pretending to be non-involved". Nobody's "waiting for an opportunity". Find some other target for harrassment. --Ragib 14:50, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Why are you feeling harrassed,I have made no such remarks on you which may harass you.Infact it is me who has been unduly harrased by many ppl and reason was not given and they have disrupted my work plz try to be honest with your comments.And it is you who sounds funny---You are trying to present facts in slanted manner.By voting against me you have just shown your bad temperament ,I think you should along with others review your ability as admin if you ppl have any conscience.By the way are you a voting admin only ,I have found you voting on many ocassions.Anyway Majority rules and you are fortunate to be along that side but Knowledge gets the other side.I am afraid ppl like you will kill the wiki mission.Holywarrior 15:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

If my user page looks like an attack page I am sorry but I have not written most part of it.They are all true stories written by many ppl.One of them is you too.If it sounds Horrific let us face it because they are merely records of wikipedia---which conforms to wiki policy.Do you disagree????Holywarrior 15:09, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

So much effort in response to a justifiable WP:NPA warning (further evidence of my "ganging up against you" as part of a vast world conspiracy??) !! I request you to remove your attack page, which is against wikipedia's policy. Thank you. --Ragib 15:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry you could not justify it.If warning were to be issued in this manner then bots will do a better work.My contention is it was one sided. Holywarrior 16:04, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry they are all just hyperlinked pages.Can you remove those original pages.If wikipedia allows one person to be abused and takes no action against any other what is the use of any of its policy and admins likes of you.Holywarrior 15:22, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

And the manner in which you put up "Request" abuses the word itself.I hope some gas must have blown out of baloon.Holywarrior 15:45, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

"Third rate-liar" is a personal attack and any editor (admin or not) would be in the right to place an NPA warning on the talk page of the issuant. User:Holywarrior's user page is also inappropriate in my opinion by listing diffs with spurious added commentary by him (e.g. "CVU deletion trial" as opposed to an MfD that failed) and ("Admin who tried to bully me"). The entire commentary above is suggestive of trolling. I've blocked him for 48 hours for trolling, and submit the block for review on WP:AN#Holywarrior block. -- Samir धर्म 20:55, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Request for limited edit to protected page Falun Gong

Fire Star referred me to this page since s/he is involved in the discussions and shouldn't make the change hirself. This page was recently protected after the introduction of a new 1st paragraph for the lead section. Without taking sides in the debate, I'm requesting some simple formatting changes to bring back the links to Wiktionary that have been there for months and align the references with the formatting style of the rest of the page. I've posted this request on the talk page and there have been no objections. Fire Star has seconded the request. The new text is below. As you can see, the only change is the move of the first verb, reintroducing the Chinese language Wiktionary links and changing the formatting of the references. CovenantD 22:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

• I was the one who protected the page. The editing is contentious and there is a straw poll on the talk page. I'd favour keeping it protected until some element of consensus is reached -- Samir धर्म 05:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I'm not asking for unprotection. I'd like a dispassionate admin to look over the existing version with the above, verify that it's just formatting changes, and make this single edit. I have no doubt that we'll end up with something much different, but while it's there it might as well be formatted correctly. CovenantD 06:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I've made the edit, after verifying that it indeed contains no substantive differences to the previous version and that the formatting changes comply with the relevant Misplaced Pages guidelines. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 13:45, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. CovenantD 14:19, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Felicity4711 and smartquotes

Felicity4711 has been asked to refrain from forcing "smartquotes" or directed quotes, but, as far as I can see, is unilaterally imposing them, as in Monochrome painting and other edits. I don't know enough about the technicalities, but I think someone who does ought to check this out. Tyrenius 23:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Ugh, to me this is borderline vandalism, unilaterally imposing a style that is widely disagreed with on dozens of articles without discussion. It makes the source impossible to read. - Merzbow 23:52, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I’m unsure whether it is my place to post my opinion here (as I am not an administrator); however, apart from the html v. unicode argument, what objection could anyone have to the use of ‘smart quotes’ over the use of " & '? It seems to me an entirely irrelevant issue (as long as the unicode, rather than the html versions are used). Personally, I am lukewarmly in favour of the use of ‘smart quotes’ - they are typographically correct, and somewhat more æsthetically pleasing - though I am not as zealously committed to the cause as Felicity4711 is. If she wants to go around, doing the mammoth menial task of swapping " for “ & ” and ' for ‘ & ’ in the many myriad articles of Misplaced Pages, then good luck to her - it’s not a negative thing to do (although, I could think of better things to do with my time). It would be inappropriately authoritarian for Misplaced Pages to impose the exclusive use of one form over the other (particularly the less correct " & ' over ‘, “, ’ & ”); slight differences of style are to be expected in an encyclopedia with so many editors. Please, tolerate some inconsequential diversity of style, and allow Felicity4711 her harmless pedantry. Doremítzwr 03:35, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Doremítzwr, especially this part: as long as the unicode, rather than the html versions are used. The &ldquo; and &#8221; nonsense has got to stop, but other than that I see no problem. —Keenan Pepper 03:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the unicode is fine, but the HTML stuff is rubbish. If she modifies any more articles in that way I'm going to exercise my right to harmless pedantry to make then readable again with the unicode. - Merzbow 06:21, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Changed to unicode smart quotes or keyboard apostrophes and primes (I presume that you mean the former; however your meaning is rather ambiguous)? If you do the latter, she’ll probably just go back and revert your changes; however, if you coöperate and change them to the former, it may encourage her to do so as well, and agree to only use unicode smart quotes in future. Shall I send her a message on behalf of you all, asking her to do so? Doremítzwr 14:48, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Her work is going to be changed, as has already happened with Monochrome painting. - Tyrenius 15:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I’ll take that as a yes. Doremítzwr 18:43, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

For reference, I have posted this screenshot showing how the quotes added by Felicity4711 to the article Calvin Trillin appear on the latest version of Internet Explorer for the Macintosh when the user is logged in in Japanese. The quotes are double width because IE renders them in a two-byte Japanese font. I suspect that similar problems may occur in many Chinese, Korean, and other non-English computer systems. Tomgally 22:50, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Yet more usernames...

Sigh...

• Corn-hole (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Eros St. Voyeur (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Erotic lust (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• BREASTS! (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• CUT13W1TBUTTY (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Lesbian courtesan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Sorry, I couldn't think of a username (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

And also, there's a not recently registered user with the name This user has left wikipedia that I warned earlier about his username.--Conrad Devonshire 05:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Uh, This user has left wikipedia had his username changed to that as part of m:right to vanish. No reason to block. --Rory096 07:12, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I do not see Corn-hole as sexually suggestive or offensive. I indef blocked Eros St. Voyeur and Erotic lust. BREASTS! already indef blocked earlier. For the last one I don't think it's suggestive or offensive, though others may disagree. Kimchi.sg 07:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

"Cornhole" is a word that refers to the anus, similar to asshole.--Conrad Devonshire 07:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

It can also refer to the game. See Cornhole. --Rory096 07:32, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

(Two edit conflicts) By Misplaced Pages's standards, I think corn-hole would be considered offensive. "Sorry, I couldn't think of a username" is not offensive, but it is unwieldy and my cause confusion. If the person becomes a regular contributor, perhaps he or she should be asked to change names. -- Kjkolb 07:34, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

WP:AGF says we have to assume that he means the game. The other isn't really bad, and certainly not worth a block. --Rory096 07:36, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

WP:AGF has nothing to do with it. The username policy is quite clear that it is not if the creating user finds the name offesnsive, but if others do, thus a name created in good faith but offensive to others is still unacceptable. --pgk 08:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Why would you find the name of a game offensive? --Rory096 17:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

And your point is? I haven't said the name is offensive, I have pointed out that WP:AGF has nothing to do with if a name is offensive of not. We block the name, not the user. --pgk 14:55, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

It's technically possible that a user named "Corn-hole" is only interested a game, just like it's possible that a user named "Ass-wipe" just likes cleaning donkeys. I wouldn't put any money on either one, though... -Hit bull, win steak 19:06, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Someone will want to block Lesbian courtesan, no ambiguity about that one. My school's proxy server filters URLs with certain words so I can't block. Kimchi.sg 07:38, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

And that someone is me. Blocked as of now. User:Zscout370 17:35, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Message on top

I think someone should put some space bars on the messages on top of every article (the one that says about wikimania and scholarships. When there is an icon of spoken articles or featured articles the number 28 is hidden behind them. --Alexignatiou 07:42, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Alternatively, the spoken/featured articles templates should be edited to move them further down, as the rest of the metadata templates did. --Rory096 07:44, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I think I fixed Spoken Misplaced Pages, tell me if it's still broken (I have siteNotice hidden in my css). Featured article is protected, I can't fix it. --Rory096 07:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

If an admin wants to, "<div style="right:10px; display:none;"" needs to be changed to "<div style="right:10px; top:26px; display:none;"" in the first line. --Rory096 07:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Page inexplicably appearing in C:CSD

Why does User talk:Adrian/Messages from Earth (and other archived stuff) show up in C:CSD? I looked and looked but there isn't any CSD template on the page. Editing the page reports that {{db-reason}} is transcluded, but I can't find where, and the page hasn't been edited since June 8, whereas it started showing up as a CSD less than a day ago. Any ideas? Kimchi.sg 08:09, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I remember coming across this problem before, so perhaps you want to look in the AN archives? NSLE 08:15, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Apparently User:This user has left wikipedia is transcluded there, too. Since that was recently up for speedy deletion without noinclude tags (since I didn't think that anyone would be transcluding his userpage), and has since been deleted, the cache must not have cleared on the archive, even though the userpage has been deleted. --Rory096 08:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive33#CAT:CSD_and_Wikipedia:Hangman NSLE 08:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

By the way, it was removed from the cat when he removed a period because editing a page clears the cache. --Rory096 08:25, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I forgot all about the cache. :) Kimchi.sg 08:26, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I purged the cache, it's out now. --Rory096 08:27, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Celebrity impersonator

User:Brendonurie violates Misplaced Pages's inappropriate usernames rule by using Panic! at the Disco's singer Brendon Urie's name. Obviously, he's not Urie, as he vandalised the band article. --HarryCane 08:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocked. Kimchi.sg 09:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Interwiki

Check this out. 80.178.149.185 10:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Uhh.. so? — The King of Kings 13:54 June 24 '06

What are you saying? Iolakana| 16:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Nobody was doing it, so he asked here. It's done now. --Rory096 17:13, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Ramesh chellani

Impostor or sockpuppet of User:Ramesh? Freddie _Message? 15:12, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Doubtful, Ramesh is named Ramesh Lakshminarasimhan, and it appears to be a first name (like Rory77 wouldn't be an imposter of me, but Rory096 you must accept PISSCHRIST as your savior would be). --Rory096 17:15, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Dollar problem ("$")

We have the "$" problem again. When unblocking a user on the unblock page, and the unblocking him/her, the text near the top of the page says "Such-and-such has been unblocked" - it shows the correct name of the user, but the piped link is "$1". If I knew the MediaWiki text I would change it myself, but I don't... Iolakana| 16:00, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Uggh. The page involved is MediaWiki:Unblocked. It was a red link before I touched it, so it was using a default value. I tried changing it, but it fails. Even a straight unpiped link still goes to "User:$1" while still displaying the user's actual name (liek whut?), so I have no clue how to fix it, so I re-deleted it. — Jun. 24, '06 <freak|talk>

Help with move Emir -> Amir_Amir-General-2006-06-24T17:09:00.000Z">

I tried to move the page Emir to Amir, but a page with Amir already exists, which acts as a redirect. The article refers to Amir throughout, yet the title is still Emir, this should be changed, but I can't figure out how? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Amrix (talk • contribs) .

You need an administrator to delete the redirect page, which I have done. In the future, you can ask at Misplaced Pages:Requested moves or put {{db-move}} on the redirect page. —Keenan Pepper 17:09, 24 June 2006 (UTC)_Amir"> _Amir">

This is far from an uncontrovertial move. Please put it back and use requested moves. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 20:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

It seems like a simple transliteration issue (the Arabic letter alif is never transliterated e as far as I know), and the history of the redirect page was trivial. You can move it back without administrator intervention, but please discuss it on the talk page. —Keenan Pepper 22:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

It's not about transliteration, it's whether we should use the most common spelling of an English word. The usual spelling in English is Emir. "Amir" is an acceptable variant, but its not the preferred spelling. - Nunh-huh 23:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

"...a simple transliteration issue..." seems to imply lack of familiarity with the Misplaced Pages policy of having articles at the most common English name. Cambridge dict doesn't recognize amir at all, and Merriam's only has it as a variant. And where do you think emirate, United Arab Emirates, etc. comes from? Should definately be moved back to Emir, and posting at requested moves seems likely to only waste people's time. 24.18.215.132 23:53, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

A trivial matter I need help with

WAS 4.250 20:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

What action do you want admins to take? -- Finlay McWalter 20:35, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. I believe the trivial matter of you removing links has been handled already. - Nunh-huh 20:52, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

If Nunh-huh's spam is OK then no action at all is needed. WAS 4.250 02:39, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

And if you'd stop calling a legitimate link spam, you'd be less insulting. If you object to a link, you remove it, and it's replaced, you need to detail why you feel it's inappropriate on the article's talk page, not merely call it "spam" in an edit summary. - Nunh-huh 16:08, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Just as the H5N1 and Flu articles are spread over two suites Flu (Flu, Flu season, Flu vaccine, Flu treatment, Avian flu, H5N1 flu, Flu research) - H5N1 (H5N1, H5N1 genetic structure, Transmission and infection of H5N1, Global spread of H5N1, Social impact of H5N1, Influenza Pandemic)); so too should the links be placed in the most appropriate article, not in as many articles as someone thinks they can get away with. Your links do not belong at H5N1. The exact location you added your links recommends Global spread of H5N1 as a proper place for good and useful links about H5N1 in the category of News and General information. The comment with my latest deletion of your two links said take to talk page. You should have. You didn't so in lieu of an edit war, I brought it here. Links spamming is affecting all of wikipedia and so I was also hoping for this episode to either benefit from or add an example to the general wikipedia wide effort concerning spamming. WAS 4.250 17:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

And you still haven't taken your concerns to the appropriate talk page. - Nunh-huh 17:28, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User:RJII

This "user" admits to being a shared account used by multiple people. While I cannot find the exact policy, I am certain this is prohibited, and have blocked the "project" accordingly. Unblock if I was incorrect. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 20:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Although I have absolutely no love for RJII, I do think you should have probably asked here before blocking if you can't find any policy. I don't see what's so wrong with sharing an account, as long as all people sharing take responsibility for the actions of the others using it. That's how I see it anyway. The Ungovernable Force 21:01, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

m:Role account is the page you might've been looking for, Jeffrey. ~ PseudoSudo 21:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

There's definitely a page on enwiki about that, but I can't remember. The term used is "public account," though. --Rory096 21:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Here we go, Misplaced Pages:Blocking policy#"Public" accounts. The block was valid. --Rory096 21:08, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, WP:SOCK#.27Role.27_accounts. --ajn (talk) 21:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

If different users posted from a same IP, doing same kind of edits, wouldn't you block them as sockpuppets? -- Vision Thing -- 09:06, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, the self-admitted aim solely to push their POV into Misplaced Pages is more than enough reason to block. --Rory096 21:11, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

So then why weren't they banned a long time ago? It's been pretty obvious they were pov pushing for quite a while, yet they were allowed to complete their little project anyway. What's the point of blocking now, just 6 days before they voluntarily leave? The Ungovernable Force 21:15, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Did they ever come out and say that they were doing nothing but inserting their POV into Misplaced Pages? If not, we'd have to assume that he's (they're) acting in good faith. --Rory096 21:18, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

They often admitted to considering Misplaced Pages a battleground. Besides, AGF only goes so far, and this has been pretty obvious. Anyways, RJII doesn't care about assuming good faith (they have said it themself), so why should we assume good faith with them? The Ungovernable Force 21:24, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Fine, so maybe he should have been blocked earlier. That doesn't mean this block is invalid. --Rory096 21:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

True, I just wish it would have happened much earlier. The Ungovernable Force 21:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Endorse. - FrancisTyers · 21:27, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Blanked soapboxing on user page. Concur with block, this is a self-admitted POV push and using WP as their playground. Just zis Guy you know? 21:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

There's a bigger problem here: The editors behind RJII were being paid to engage in POV-pushing on wikipedia 24/7, and they managed to slip by the checks and balances currently in place. They have fooled the wikipedia community for a year and a half. By any measure, this is a collossal blunder on our part. I believe a review of existing rules and procedures must be launched to ensure this does not happen again. -- Nikodemos 22:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

How do you know this, and, even if it were true, how is it significant;y different than any unpaid POV-pushing? Jkelly 22:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree; the motivations behind POV-pushing are irrelevant. I have no problem with people being paid to edit. I wouldn't mind a little kickback. --Golbez 22:37, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

There is a problem, actually: People being paid to POV-push have much more time on their hands than the rest of us. RJII could routinely impose his POV against large teams of other editors. He created entire POV forks that are still largely POV to this day. Simply put, 1 paid POV-pusher = 10 unpaid ones. -- Nikodemos 01:51, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

1 paid = just as easy to block as 10 unpaid. --Golbez 05:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Not as bad as you think, the account of the users in question would probably not have lasted much longer. Furthermore, anything too egregious is likely to just get diluted in the normal process of editing. Besides, how many articles of the million or so we have can they really have hoped to have "fixed up". Honestly, a more interesting statistic would be how long before their contribution is effectively reduced to nil. - FrancisTyers · 22:40, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Interesting question, especially since they claimed that measures were in place to ensure their contributions would remain, with details to be provided. Without those details, it's hard to say. Perhaps it's something as simple as having their contributions in the edit history where like-minded editors can find it. Still, their little screed seemed like just so much masturbatory self-congratulations without those details of how they did what they claimed to have done. Powers 22:53, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I think it's more a matter of including the same information in numerous articles. -- Nikodemos 01:51, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

You all are assuming this is true, as well. rjii.com remains but a placeholder. --Golbez 22:57, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

A casual look through RJII's contributions (dated May 2006 and earlier) will show you that no one could possibly have time to edit that much and go to work - or, for that matter, do anything else during the day other than eat and sleep. No one person could keep up that pace for a year and a half. -- Nikodemos 01:51, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what you're looking at, but I just scrolled their last 5000 edits and it is decidedly not 24/7 like they would like to claim and like you seem to see, and follows a pattern of activity and inactivity (analguous to any other busy user). --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 09:40, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I have had a number of dealings with RJII, and there was nothing unusual about the extent of his editing, and he was considerably less active than hundreds of other contributors over the same period. I would be particularly shocked to learn he had a research assistant, as his sources never seemed to go beyond what one could easy to find with a Google search. In this case, I feel that Occam's Razor makes RJII being a single user with a penchant for self-aggrandizing fiction a considerably more likely scenario to him being a team of covert and well-funded operators. - SimonP 19:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I too have dealt with RJII, and fully agree with SimonP. Enough already of the conspiracy - it's a single user jerking the chain. It's a wind up, and you're taking the bait spectacularly. ElectricRay 23:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Concur. - FrancisTyers · 23:04, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

If you are talking to me, than you should know I'm personally not taking any bait, thank you (it was obvious from the get-go he was spewing hot air), and I personally don't give two fucks if he is not a they, as he/they say they are a they then they were blocked. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 00:13, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocked IE users no longer lose edits

Today, I submitted a patch for bugzilla:4990, which Rob Church applied with some modifications. Thus, the page shown to blocked users now has a textbox that contains the source of the page, or, if they were already editing when the block was applied, the content they were trying to save. This has two major effects:

1. Blocked users can now view the source of a page without resorting to odd tricks like Special:Export.
2. Internet Explorer users no longer lose their edits if their IP is blocked while they are editing.

The latter should reduce the severity of the collateral damage from blocking shared IPs (either directly or through the autoblocker) quite a bit. I'm sure a lot of AOL users will be thankful. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 23:20, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

How come IE users lost their edits? Iolakana| 16:31, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Pressing "back" in IE doesn't preserve form content, whereas it does in Firefox/Opera. Sam Korn 16:34, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Request for addition of users to AutoWikiBrowser

Someone flagged the issue for admin backlog earlier today. We need an administrator to come and approve or reject the wikipedians waiting for AWB approval. Some have been waiting 4 days. The specific page is here: Misplaced Pages talk:AutoWikiBrowser/CheckPage. Thanks! --Alphachimp 00:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Problem is solved by Prodego. Regards, --Alphachimp 03:39, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

A Users' Image

I noticed User:Arsenalwwerulz created an Image that contained two copyrighted logos, Image:Signature2.JPG. The Image is a logo of a football (soccar) club and the other is the WWE logo and some text that says his name below it. I'm not sure on what the rule on that is, but I'm sure thats copyright infringment. The Two logos are not any differant from the original logos and they are copyrighted, anyone want to take a stab at this? — The King of Kings 00:51 June 25 '06

Moe, its quite simply a dervative work of copyrighted work and therefore cant be released as a free image, can an admin please del Benon 00:56, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Nuked. User:Zscout370 01:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Burningbuddha

Would this user need a username block? --GeorgeMoney 01:02, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I would say yes, as a user with the name "Burningjesus" would probably get a block. --Mr. Lefty _{Talk to me!} 01:08, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocked. User:Zscout370 01:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

We need another username block on User:Retardtv --GeorgeMoney 01:26, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

A mentally retarded transvestite? <cough> (There is, btw, a possibility with some religions and philosophies that "burning" would not be an insult, but rather X in purification/divinity. I doubt that's the case here.) Geogre 14:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I think the username in question is actually a drug reference, although it could easily be misinterpreted. If I'm correct, that's still a block, so no big deal. (The Buddha one, not the other.)-Hit bull, win steak 13:38, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Retard TV. Iolakana| 16:34, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

User:PoolGuy

PoolGuy was recently the subject of an Arbitration case, which decided that after major sockpuppetry he should be put on probation, and limited to using one account. In the two days since the arbitration case closed, he has made two formal requests (on WP:RPP) and several other requests on his and others' talk pages for User:GoldToeMarionette (a sockpuppet) to be unblocked/unprotected, on the specious grounds that since the ArbCom didn't specifically find that the account should have been blocked, they implicitly decided that the account should not be blocked. This sort of sophistry and barrack-room law is typical.

PoolGuy has made no edits to articles, as opposed to talk pages and the WP namespace, since March . His edit history prior to March is not extensive (about 50 edits to articles in the last year, mainly typos and capitalisation correction, and eleven edits since November). He has caused a great deal of disruption since then, but contributed absolutely nothing to Misplaced Pages. I suggest we're way past the stage of exhausting the community's patience. Does anyone have any objections to a permanent block? --ajn (talk) 05:56, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd certainly agree, his pointless wikilawyering got old months ago at this point I cannot see it as anything other than trolling. --pgk 14:56, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I've permanently blocked the account. If any other admin feels he's worth unblocking, go ahead. --ajn (talk) 16:20, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

No problems here, he keeps abusing unblock claiming that ArbCom had no basis for it's ruling, if he keeps it up a protect is in order -- Tawker 18:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe a permanent IP block is necessary since IP autoblock is only around 1 week.--Bonafide.hustla 21:02, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Bizarre userpage chain

Hello. I have found a series of user accounts that are apparently being used for some kind of personal game project. User accounts User:Drama freak, User:Modella, User:Pressure Resilient, and User:Big Brother Teen are hosting content in userspace for what appears to be an imaginary game show. Nearly all of the edits for these accounts are to their own userpages. I don't know what the policy is on this kind of thing, so I'll leave it in your hands. -Joshuapaquin 10:19, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

They fail WP:USER and WP:NOT... NSLE 10:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

That I figured, but what happens? Do the accounts get zapped? -Joshuapaquin 10:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted the pages and left a note. I don't think the accounts should be blocked right now, as they have had little or no warning about what they were doing. If they continue now, that will be another matter of course. --JoanneB 10:43, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Woops, I just blocked them all for a week. I don't wish to revert only because my gut tells me thay all knew exactly what they were doing, and had almost no encyclopedia edits or community interaction aside from whateverthefuck they were doing. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 10:47, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, my reasoning was (but perhaps that was a bit of too much good faith?): they find this place they can edit and see it as a most convenient place for their games. They don't encounter any policy pages, as they're just sticking to their own userpage. No one is telling them not to, so why would they stop? I won't revert your block though, I see your reasoning as well. --JoanneB 10:51, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Looking at the histories, they even edited anonymously, and the IPs I checked didn't come back to any other edits. They knew exactly what Misplaced Pages is and they knew exactly what they were doing. However, if someone were to unblock, I'd be cool with it (mostly because I'll be offline for the next day or so and can't follow up as exstensively as I want). --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 10:53, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Woops, I just blocked them all for a week. Man, I hope I never get on your bad side :) -Joshuapaquin 10:56, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Time for Geogre the scold, I suppose. We should warn them first, but I also think they have to know they're doing something wrong, even if they haven't read any of our policies. They know this isn't MySpace, whatever else they know. It's very likely school chum message boarding. So, I'd say we should warn first, but then we don't need to give more than 2 unpurposed edits before slapping down with a block. Kids sitting in their IT class or library have used article talk pages to chat with each other, in the past, so these are at least polite enough to do it in talk pages. (Then again, awareness of talk pages takes some knowledge of how Misplaced Pages works and, arguably, knowledge of what it isn't.) Geogre 14:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Incase you are interested - this User:Pressure Resilient looks like Deal or No Deal. Ian¹³/t 18:39, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

User:KymeSnake2 is self-admitted role/"public" account

See Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Iasson. Here's a diff of it. This account seems to not be allowed on wikipedia, as in m:Role account and Misplaced Pages:Blocking_policy#.22Public.22_accounts for being an account intentionally shared by multiple users. Kevin_b_er 16:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I have indef blocked this self-admitted public account. If Iasson's friends want to edit Misplaced Pages, they should each get an account. Kimchi.sg 18:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Personal Attack by Eep²

SecondLife Edit History. This user has a long history of disruptive behaviour. Upon attempting to clean up the SL article I found that in May he had overlinked the entire article. Investigated revealed a total of about 20 articles he's overlinked. I've cleaned up all but 8. He went through and linked just about every word (or part of a word) he could find on wikipedia, and those he couldn't he linked to wiktionary. He marks every edit as minor, even when he removes and or adds entire sections to an article. --Crossmr 16:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Perpetual hoaxer?

What do you do with a user who actively works on adding hoaxes to Misplaced Pages? It can't be speedied -- {{db-nonsense}} specifically excludes hoaxes. How do you keep bumping them down the disciplinary road to eventually get them off Misplaced Pages? — Mike • 19:08, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, hoaxes are a trouble spot on CSD. Some of us (many of us, actually) consider them vandalism. Vandalism is always a CSD. They're not nonsense (lj;lkjl;kjlkj), but they're clearly malicious edits designed to deface: vandalism. Geogre 20:53, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

If the user is unambiguously a hoaxer then tagging as vandalism is fine. I'll happily speedy multiple hoaxes. It's one-offs which may just be obscure which are the problem. Just zis Guy you know? 22:08, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay. If anyone wants to help with the monitoring, here's the link. The Crocodile stuff, however, is legit. — Mike • 22:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• I've seen multiple articles that look like hoaxes at a first glance, but turn out to be real after a bit of research. Of course, they should be citing sources, but I guess CSD is made to protect such articles that are legit, despite not looking the part. - Mgm| 22:31, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

I should say that I have to be sure that it's a hoax before I consider it vandalism. When a kiddie writes an article saying that "Bobby won the Grand Prix at Monaco in 2007 and thats real good for a ten yearold," I put it into the same category as a vandal. Indeed, the clever hoaxes are harder, but they also demonstrate more of a desire to deceive and are, therefore, worse. Geogre 23:16, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

12.34.238.243

He's vandalizing random user's talk pages, and he is editing even though he has been blocked. He has also been repeatedly warned. Bot? (I doubt it, though.) Freddie _Message? 19:45, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Blocked. Iolakana| 16:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Holywarrior block

I've blocked Holywarrior (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for 48 hours per the below (see relevant above thread):

"Third rate-liar" is a personal attack and any editor (admin or not) would be in the right to place an NPA warning on the talk page of the issuant. User:Holywarrior's user page is also inappropriate in my opinion by listing diffs with spurious added commentary by him (e.g. "CVU deletion trial" as opposed to an MfD that failed) and ("Admin who tried to bully me"). The entire commentary above is suggestive of trolling.

I submit the block here for review -- Samir धर्म 20:57, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Despite the fact, that I don't consider User:Holywarrior to easy to deal with (and a change of username may be an option), the thread above has a prehistory, as User:VandalPatrol (now indef blocked) and socks were busy making threats against User:Holywarrior and try to give the impression of acting as delegates of the CVU. See userpage history of VandalPatrol of and Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Bhurabal. Anyway, 48h block may be OK for cooling down. --Pjacobi 21:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Just for clarification, I have no prehistory with User:Holywarrior (Please review my contributions). My only "Ganging up" activity was issuing a WP:NPA against this user, for reasons cited above (i.e. calling another user a "3rd rate liar"). Following that, I looked in the other comments in the talk page, and voted here in a CFD for renaming, which Holywarrior opposed (My comment there was : Rename: as per Mareino hardly even a comment). Holywarrior turned his actions against me (see his last 15 edits or so) and claimed I pretended not to know anything and was bullying him . Well, as I said, my only knowledge of this affair is ANB, and I don't really care to delve into the past or present disagreements this user has with others. That seems to be what Holywarrior has against me, and for this, I had the honor of making an entry in his attack page.

Well, I hope he cools down, and gets back to editing. His recent edits in the last week show only reverts or attacks in different pages, and a very dubious nomination of WP:CVU for deletion. I hope a 48 hour break will change such behavior. Thanks. --Ragib 21:49, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

copy of Half-life computations

I need to obtain a copy of the last version of the Half-life computation article prior to deletion for personal reference and was referred here to leave a message to that effect to which any administrator can respond. Thanks. ...IMHO (Talk) 23:30, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

CAT:CSD header information.

A discussion regarding the design of the Category:Candidates for speedy deletion page is ongoing at: Category_talk:Candidates_for_speedy_deletion#Category_Header_Information. If you use this page, please stop by and contribute. — xaosflux 01:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Apologies, Reporting myself here.

HawkerTyphoon (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). I am really rather sorry, chaps. In an attempt to stop a flame war, I have done this. In doing so all the old notes have been archived, and I have deleted a few user's messages. Please accept my apologies, I have apolgised to the users concerned, but I was concerned that the talk page was getting a bit heated, and it seemed like a drastic solution to keep everyone quiet over the hoo-hah with User:Wiki-star. Block me if you must, I'm confessing 100%, and I know it's vandalism, but I hope you're lenient. HawkerTyphoon 03:22, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Prbbt! Unless you'd gotten a vandalism warning or something like that, you could have been rude and just deleted. Since you archived, there probably isn't a problem. You didn't have a bunch of warnings from admins, did you? Geogre 04:23, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Go read Misplaced Pages:Vandalism#What vandalism is not, in particular the "Bold Edits" part. --cesarb 13:25, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Administrative comment on WP for the Seattle Times?

Like the headline says. I have a reporter who has contacted me looking for an administrator to comment on Misplaced Pages's issues in the public eye. To quote, "I'd like to be able to include a Misplaced Pages administrator's response is to some people's claims of inaccuracy, and especially about schools/teachers prohibiting its use as a resource for school papers."

To protect that address from spamming, any interested administrator should edit my talk page, or contact me through Special:Emailuser/CorbinSimpson, or use AIM and message "Corbin Simpson". Timely replies appreciated. - Corbin 04:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Please refer the reporter to Misplaced Pages:Contact_us/Press_inquiries. TruthbringerToronto 04:53, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Block links on history pages

Is it just me or do these new links seem a bit unecessary to have for every user that edits a page. They just clutter up the history page and make the summaries go over to the next line more (kind of messy). I'd rather have it back to the way it was before. Rarely can I just know enough to block a user right from the history page.Voice-of-All 06:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I thought that was new! I actually find it quite helpful, but that's just me (perhaps because I'm not an admin, so I don't have all the special tools you often have, at least I think you have special tools, I'm not really all that sure). The Ungovernable Force 07:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Homeontherange

This extremely biased 'administrator' consistantly attacks articles on individuals and groups on the UK traditional conservative Right. He rubbishes and demonises them, and he is currently running around sneakily flagging them up for deletion. He is largely responsible for a legal dispute on one of them. He needs disciplining. 213.122.50.183 09:18, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Dude, seriously. Nobody is fooled by this. Give it up. (Just for reference in service of the curious, this is about the perma-block of User:Sussexman for legal threats). -Hit bull, win steak 13:48, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Authorship of A Course In Miracles article, nominated twice for deletion

The article Authorship of A Course in Miracles has been nominated twice for deletion. It passed the first deletion attempt, obviously (or else it wouldn't be around to be nominated a second time). The current vote demonstrates by great majority that consensus is that the article should be kept. However, why should we have to vote on this again when we just settled it two months ago? And having settled this matter two months ago, what if the consensus once again is to keep the article (which will likely be the case), and then someone comes along in two more months and nominates it again? It will just go on and on and on.... Is there anyone who can put a stop to this? This is a waste of everyone's time. -- Andrew Parodi 09:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

There are no binding decisions (either way) on Misplaced Pages. Just as multiple AfDs resulting in Keep indicates that the content is probably encyclopaedic, it also indicates that there is something about the article which inspires scepticism. In this case, despite the presence of references, it looks so much like original research that I can see why it would get nominated. I am not sure how that can be fixed, other than by citing more reliable authorities. At present the dispute which the article documents looks rather like The People's Front of Judea vs. The Judean People's Front - a dispute between two groups of no evident significance, over a document whose significance outside those groups is also open to question. I guess you could start by making the case in the article for why anyone should actually care? Just zis Guy you know? 11:55, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

JzG is, to be sure, correct (and two months is a good period of time during which more evidence might arise or during which an article might change substantially); in any event, for articles that have incurred an exorbitant amount of AfDs, see Gay Nigger Association of America (18 noms, of which many were substantive) and Daniel Brandt (at least 8, I think). Joe 22:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Holy fancruft, Batman!

Deadhead documents the term "deadhead", meaning a fan of the Grateful dead. Most of what is in this article is uncited, and some editors are arguing that Usenet is a reliable source since no other source exists. I think this article needs to be around 1/3 the current length. Maybe some others with more experience of rock culture could have a look? Just zis Guy you know? 11:38, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Trigger Happy

Dear Administrator(s): I, like you, am an editor; I create articles and make edits. But, many, I am sure many other people out there, are tired, frustrated and angry with the behavior of many Administrators. I am certain that it is appallingly easy to revert and article, that someone has undoubtedly spent allot of time and effort writing. I have, in the past spent hours, researching, planning, writing, checking and revising an addition to an article only to have the whole lot deleted forever three minutes afterwards.

I know that deletion of material is essential in a free-to-edit encyclopedia, but if you see an article that someone has anonymously devoted their time to writing, why could you not revise it, change it or give a reason for you action? They deserve one.

I know all Administrators are not all Drunk-With-Power-Trigger-Happy-Nazis, many of you do an excellent job and you know who you are.

In closing: Create, don’t Destroy. Make a distinction between “what is right, and what is easy”. Be enriched and enrich others with the knowledge of other people.

And keep that finger off the trigger.

(If I don't cop flack for this one, I will climb the Reichtag Bulding in a Spiderman outfit). Dfrg.msc 11:43, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Please provide a photo of your climbing the Reichstag in a Spiderman outfit. Proto///type 11:59, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

When will you be climbing the Reichstag? I'll try to be around :)) (and could provide the photo then) Lectonar 12:05, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

We are the rouge admin cabal and will block you indefinitely for violating the Misplaced Pages:No climbing the Reichstag dressed as Spiderman. Also, we will extend this block to everybody you have ever met because you violated Misplaced Pages:Don't post incidents without giving people the faintest clue what the f**k you're on about, which is definitely policy. Just zis Guy you know? 12:21, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

You also fell foul of Godwin's Law pretty quickly. --james _{// bornhj (talk)} 12:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I may be a trigger happy administrator drunk with power, but I am not a Nazi! I'm a commie bastard, thank you very much (not really). But seriously, if we don't get an example of what you are talking about, we can't determine where (or if) the system broke down or if someone acted improperly. -- Kjkolb 13:07, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

You have less than 100 contributions to main space. Do you care to tell us which of your contributions were carefully researched and planned? I don't know if this edit to Einstein or this edit to Exodus were carefully researched and planned. Could you provide some enlightenment? --User:Elkman 13:29, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

why are you inserting this image (Image:Superche.jpg at random talk pages? --Ragib 15:12, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Image nuked, since it had no copyright tag or source for over 7 days. User:Zscout370 15:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Vision Thing

When people reduce detail of minority POV in an article, as per WP:NPOV, Vision Thing reverts them without discussion.

As well as engaging in minority POV pushing, he engages in provocative commenting repeating that his own view is significant. (WickedWanda is a suspected sockpuppet of blocked user Hogeye). Anyone who is familiar with the subject matter would realise the falsehood in this statement. I request that he be blocked for disruption and failure to comply with WP:NPOV. -- infinity0 13:17, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

PS. This is not an isolated incident. He makes edits like this all the time. See for details. -- infinity0 13:23, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Article ownership on Slovakia

I ask other admins to keep an eye on the Slovakia article. A user known as User:Juro is reverting and blanking almost all edits not his own. When a new section of the article was opened on tourism, the user blanked it twice without explanation. When approached about this, the user proceeded to write a very nasty talk page message, bordering on a personal attack, calling the recent edits "uppermost stupidty" . I am not that active on the site anymore, but this kind of bullying and article ownership attitude is highly uncalled for. -Husnock 13:37, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Seems to be primarily about whether to include Husnock's couple of sentences on tourism in Slovakia. While Juro's talk page message mentioned above was not the epitome of civility, Husnock's material in dispute is at best stub-like and at worst rather naively unencyclopedic. Juro's other contributions to the Slovakia page have been very worthwhile. The solution there earlier today - to put Husnock's sentences in a separate stub at History of Slovakia, referred to from the main article and available to be improved by others, was perhaps a good one, though one which now seems to have been edit warred away from. Maybe someone with more time than me can mediate... Martinp 01:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

As a compromise, the material was moved into a new article Tourism in Slovakia. User:Juro promptly blanked the article again and has twice reverted information which he does not personally agree with. Other admins should keep on certianly eye on this. -Husnock 02:50, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Update to this. User:Juro was blocked for violation of the three revert rule after 4 reverts to the article. A quick look at the user contributions shows heavy POV pushing and personal attacks against other users. This might become an edit war problem if the user returns. As for me, I'm done for the night. -Husnock 03:07, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Disappearing Categories

A iterim 'management' revision in speedy deletion of categories seems to be in order as three 'maps' categories pages interwikied from the commons (See: tagging example) top-down heirarchial reorganization were deleted here despite several correctly showing reflected images of content in the commons. See Wikipedia_talk:Categories_for_deletion#Disappearing_categories for detail and request to check for the templates (Example at right) being used in the interwiki category reorganization.

Note also, any pages which should be exempted, by you all, from speedy deletion will be showing the auto-category: Category:Misplaced Pages categories equalized with Wikimedia Commons categories (Which long winded name resulted from the Cfd, mine was shorter! <g>). Questions or suggestions on how to reconcile the project with the speedy deletion criteria to user talk:fabartus or below. Thanks // FrankB 17:41, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

How to edit / view source

eh, way too wordy, could someone change it back to just view source? fully protected, so only a sysop or higher can edit it, thanks--64.12.116.200 20:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes - I do slightly dislike it myself - I think its a software setting, unless it's under ]. Ian¹³/t 20:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Discussion which caused the change is here. It's been changed since, but I don't think the current version is much better (something like "Edit page (read only)"). In general to hunt down the relevant Mediawiki: entry, try Special:Allmessages --pgk 21:22, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I was fine with view source, but apparently that confused some people who were looking for the "edit" button. How to edit makes no sense to me, so I changed it to edit this page (read only), which seems more intuitive. —Keenan Pepper 21:26, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

"view source (editing disabled)" appealing? ~ PseudoSudo 02:17, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Protecting to prevent requests for unblock

Recently I have started seeing a couple of admins protecting user talk pages specifically to prevent users from placing an {{unblock}} request. As I understand things, policy allows protection of user talk pages only in the case of persistent vandalism so I'd like to get some comments on what others think of this practice. --CBD 01:06, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Some people re-insert the template after their first request is denied, to the point of disruption. If anyone (for example) kept inserting the template every 5 minutes after their first {{unblock}} is denied, I'd consider protecting due to {{unblockabuse}}. But if they haven't made their first request yet, the user talk page shouldn't be protected. Kimchi.sg 01:25, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Per Kimchi.sg's remark, it's appropriate to do this in cases where an editor has a history of abusing the {{unblock}} template, particularly if they've received multiple confirmations from different admins that a given block is reasonable. The idea is to prevent CAT:UNBLOCK from filling up with spurious requests, so that admins can actually find and address actionable unblock requests. I hope that admins aren't preemptively applying protection, except where there is a long history of abuse. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:09, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. The uses I had seen did not seem appropriate to me (protection after the 'unblock' request was placed only once or twice... and both the original blocks and unblock request removals made by admins who had been actively edit warring with the users), but the intended use you describe is more acceptable so I'll worry about the specific case still open (it's on an indefinite block) rather than the process in general. --CBD 02:35, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

User:CrnaGora 2

Similar to the complaint above, I have another thing to report. User CrnaGora is constantly harrasing me and attacking me personally. He has called me many offensive words in Serbian and English, like "kurva" which means "whore" (proof), "you damn Serb", "budala" which is something like "numskull" (proof), "I spit on you", "Are you that stupid...", and the list goes on. I have politely asked him to stop contacting me, because I do not want conflict with him, I just want to be left alone, but he keeps leaving me messages, personal attacks and provocations. He even admitted that he has "anger issues on Misplaced Pages". All of the quotes can be found on my and his talk pages. He has been warned before, several times, I leave it to you, the admins, to decide what to do with him. -- serbiana - talk 01:57, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Prometheuspan

I have blocked this editor because he's stupid, he hasn't edited an article since March, and he has launched the most pernicious attack on a valued editor. . It would be sheer idiocy to permit such obvious trolls to continue their abuse. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tony Sidaway (talk • contribs) .

I fully endorse the block. Nothing but severe trolling to MONGO and other junk. Jaranda 03:01, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Were you planning on telling him? --LV 03:03, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Tony's block... though not particularly his choice of phrasing. --CBD 03:19, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

(After edit conflict with CBD, who appears to express the same sentiments as I, only much more succinctly.) I know that many think that once it is evident that a user is editing disruptively, especially where such disruption appears volitional, we ought not to treat him/her with undue courtesy, and I generally agree, if only because we needn't to concern ourselves with users with whom the community no longer wish to interact (which is not, of course, to say that we ought to be actively vituperative, only that we needn't consciously to avoid making untoward remarks). I think, though, that Tony's use of the appellative stupid is gratuitious and unnecessarily provocative; in any event, even as stupid here surely refers to what Tony (as I) perceives to be puerile rather that intellectually infirm, it's not the most precise term and oughtn't to be used. AFAIK, users aren't blocked in view of their being adjudged stupid (if they're incapable of editing, that's a different story) but in view of their disruptive tendencies; Tony's unnecessary choice of word serves no purpose. Joe 03:31, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

He's a troll. Our only appropriate words to him are "fuck off.". --Tony Sidaway 03:34, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

1. Falun Dafa.org "The Exercises of Falun Dafa", retrieved June 23, 2006
2. Hongzhi, Li. "Lecture One:Characteristics of Falun Dafa, Falundafa.org, retreived June 23, 2006
3. Hongzhi, Li. (December 9, 2001) "Foretelling the Fa’s Rectification of the Human World", retrieved June 23, 2006

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