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The Ascent of F6

This play is linked like music by Britten, - if he wrote music for it, the play article should mention it, or we should have a article on Britten's music, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:40, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Exactly what I've been doing while you've been writing that message. :-) Alfietucker (talk) 09:42, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Prokofiev GA

Excellent, and just as it should be. Very pleased to see the gong. I'm not passionate about Prokofiev, but nonetheless I think one could make the case that he's the only composer of the 20th C. who was top-flight in all departments: real symphonies, concertos, ballets, chamber music and operas. Discuss. Candidates over thirty need not attempt questions 10,2,5,3,4, 11, 9, or 1. Where was I? Oh, yes. I was, and am, applauding loudly as your fine article is elevated. Tim riley talk 21:27, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

I think you might have Shostakovich fans on the war path with such a claim. ;-) Thank you, anyway, for your very kind words - much appreciated as always. Your work, of course, is in an entirely different league, and since you *really* have done so much to elevate classical music articles through your sterling work, I am particularly touched by your encouragement. All my very best wishes, Alfietucker (talk) 07:43, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

User messages.

Please do not leave messages on my user talk page. BelziBhaal (talk) 21:32, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

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"Plot" versus "plan" in Operation Trojan Horse

You reverted my change of "plot" to "plan" in Operation Trojan Horse, and I'm asking that it be restored. The word was part of the following sentence 'A number of governors and the Muslim Council of Britain dubbed the reaction of authorities to the plot a "witch-hunt"'. Using the word "plot" in a sentence on complaints of over-reaction implicitly discredit those complaints. It is also a charged and angry word that moves the article away from factual reporting and towards evangelizing a position. "Plan" is an accurate word here, and any missing implication of secrecy or harm that "Plot" would convey is sufficiently supported by the rest of the article. -- Dan Griscom (talk) 10:30, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Sorry not to have replied sooner - real life work intervened, and so it is only now I've got around to checking my talk page.

It does seem, to be honest, that the complaints of "over-reaction" (to adopt the term you've used) were disingenuous and - as you say - the rest of the article bears out the implications of "secrecy" and "harm" that the word "plot" implies. If you feel differently, please take your case to the article's talk page. Alfietucker (talk) 19:25, 11 June 2014 (UTC)

Recent Calormen edits

I misunderstood your edit summary. I thought you meant that the criticisms themselves were not cited. I understand what you were saying now. LloydSommerer (talk) 02:55, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your civil feedback - it's always good to know when there's understanding and resulting goodwill. Alfietucker (talk) 19:30, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

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RVW to the rescue

What think you of this, about two thirds down? I haven't read this quotation anywhere else and am dubious about it. Thoughts, please? Tim riley talk 15:39, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid Tony Palmer is a great one for elaborating and embroidering facts to make a good story, and to find an actor or actress to impersonate a personal friend of his subject to endorse his - i.e. Palmer's - version (e.g. claiming that Holst *stayed* in a street of brothels, rather than simply visiting it, while on his Algerian holiday). So I wouldn't trust any quote from that source, but I'm interested enough to see if something similar might be found from a more reliable source. Do let me know if you find anything promising in the meantime. All best, Alfietucker (talk) 15:52, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I think the ultimate source of the anecdote that RVW "reproved" the LPO at the rehearsal is a letter Sophie Wyss wrote to his widow, Ursula, in August 1958. The fullest quote from this I have found reads: "the orchestra behaved like naughty schoolboys, not understanding Britten's musical idiom. Dr Vaughan Williams was at the rehearsal and reproved them and they pulled themselves together and gave a fair performance." (quoted in Michael Kennedy Britten, p. 22) Alfietucker (talk) 16:03, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Good. As Ko-Ko says to Nanki-Poo, "Very glad to hear my opinion backed by a competent authority." Tim riley talk 16:15, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Tangentially, RVW is about the last of the big beasts of 19th/20th century British music to have escaped the attentions of Boulton, Riley or even both. I feel I really must have a go at getting him up to FAC level, and I wonder if by any chance you might be interested in joining me in the enterprise? Quite understand if not, naturally. Tim riley talk 16:19, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I'd be very happy to "tag along", though I'm not sure how much time I'd have for major writing/re-writing. If you're happy for me to look at versions in sandboxes, for instance, then I'd be very glad to help (or perhaps a bit more than that, time allowing). Do feel free to e-mail me, too, though it's probably best to alert me when/if you do so. Alfietucker (talk) 16:22, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

p.s. Thanks so much for asking - I'm very flattered! Alfietucker (talk) 16:24, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Grimes

Hello and congratulations on your excellent changes to Peter Grimes. I hope you don't mind that I have made some further, very minor changes which I hope have helped. One thing about which I was unclear (and have therefore left alone) was this: "Grimes's sudden entry unites almost the community in their fear and mistrust of his "temper"." I couldn't quite see how "unites almost the community" was meant to work; could you please very kindly clarify it? Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 21:53, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

PS I am going to see him on Saturday, and am therefore quite excited right now :)

I've just made a tweak in response to your message - hope that's clearer. Have fun with Grimes - have you been to see it before? Alfietucker (talk) 22:01, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks - that's great. Actually now I stop to think, no, I haven't seen it on stage. I feel as if I know it and have certainly played Op 33a and b enough times but no - this will be a new, and I think splendid, experience! Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

I hope it's splendid indeed - it's certainly a great opera. Alfietucker (talk) 22:38, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

Bliss!!!! :) DBaK (talk) 00:14, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

:-) Glad it was good. Alfietucker (talk) 16:12, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Bryan Drake

Thank you so much for doing the page for my father. I shall try to put a photograph up. He did write a memoir- would you like an emailed copy to expand your entry? olliedrake (talk) 19:12, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

My pleasure - it only seemed right that such an important baritone as your father was should have his own page. Forgive my ignorance, but did he ever have his memoir published? I ask, partly because Misplaced Pages's policy these days is that articles in this on-line encyclopaedia have to be based on published, verifiable sources - on the whole a good thing, I think, but a pain when there's what I know to be reliable sources which I can't use because they haven't been published by a recognised publisher. That said, I would personally be very interested indeed to see the memoir: so even if it hasn't been published, and if you're happy for me to see it (perhaps, as a freelance writer on classical music (under a different name), I could place an article based on this about your father in time for his ninetieth anniversary in a journal or magazine I write for), do please send it over - there's a tab "Email this user" on the Tools menu on the left. Alfietucker (talk) 19:38, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

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1989 in British music - compilations

Hello there - could I please ask you what you mean by describing the compilations chart as "unilluminating" and "trivia"? 1989 was in fact the first year that compilation albums were split off into their own separate chart, so it is kind of a historical point in chart history. Richard3120 (talk) 19:14, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi there. Sorry if I was a bit blunt, and I admit I missed the fact that compilation albums were split off into their own separate chart: certainly this fact should be mentioned in the summary at the start of the article. I'm not sure, though, that it's of particular interest to list details of that chart as such, and would be inclined to resist cluttering the article with such detail unless there's a compelling reason to do so. Alfietucker (talk) 19:21, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply. I know what you mean about cluttering up articles with unnecessary detail: I and several other editors have clashed with one particular editor who has insisted on populating the articles from 2011 in British music charts to 2014 in British music charts with a summary of each week's charts, making the articles ridiculously long and full of information that frankly is irrelevant – I pointed out to him that I would have to change his week numbering system as it didn't match up with the official chart week numbers, and he accused me of "vandalising" his project. Against this backdrop adding the year end compilation chart seems small fry, but I take your point. I'll refrain from adding the chart to the other years for now, but I may put it to a vote in Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Music or Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Albums and see what the consensus is. Richard3120 (talk) 20:08, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm certainly all for getting the charts off this particular series of articles - or rather, shunting them onto a separate page with a link from the article for those who are interested. Sorry you have had some grief from another editor - I guess they'll have to learn there's something called consensus in WP. I'll keep an eye out for any discussions. Alfietucker (talk) 20:14, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Made my day

Your edit presents a wonderful new idea: "Let's call xyz's work by the title he himself called it." Der fliegende Holländer. A Boy was Born. Endless possibilities! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:24, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

:-) "Sinfonia Concertante" is a particular bugbear of mine, since to the best of my memory Prokofiev himself actually gave it the title (using the Western alphabet) of "Symphony-Concerto" (and indeed, that's what the article devoted to that work is called). That said, I think you're perhaps being a bit mischievous to suggest I was promoting a particular policy: I wouldn't suggest, for instance, that we should call Rimsky-Korsakov's Russian Easter Festival Overture "Светлый праздник"! Best wishes, Alfietucker (talk) 19:37, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

There's a distance (if not "ein Abgrund") between share an idea and promote a policy ;) - The examples of Russian, Greec, Chinese etc characters are without limit. However, when we could easily change to a name that the composer used and the Grove and major opera houses, as for Wagner's work, there is just the lack of consensus which keeps things as they are (keeping it the only one of his stage works not in German). Did you see that my latest motto is "Ich gehe nicht schnell", to eventually replace "Ich steh hier und singe" (on top of my user page), as a bit faster? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:32, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

My point is that many Russian musical works (Russian music being one of my interests/loves) are not even remotely known by the title given by their composer: even if we didn't spell Rimsky's title in Russian Cyrillic, it would read Svetliy prazdnik - how many anglophone readers would think to look under that title? Likewise, I suppose it could be argued that most English speakers would know Le nozze di Figaro and Der fliegende Holländer as respectively The Marriage of Figaro and The Flying Dutchman. I personally don't have a problem with this - so long as people find the article they're looking for, then I'm happy - though arguably we should ensure that somewhere in that article the work's original title is available for readers to see. So, er, I guess I've a little edit to do to Russian Easter Festival Overture... Alfietucker (talk) 20:42, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Will that edit include to tell us the translation of the original? - Back to Wagner: better known as Flying Dutchman, certainly. But can we say Wagner composed The Flying Dutchman. Some say yes, I say no, I came from Kafka where all titles are in German (as the author gave them) with a translation, and during the FAC for Wagner, Dutchman left that article (kept only once in a translation). However, the article on the piece: there was a move request, - see above, no consensus = statusquo. See Chopin also.--Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:28, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure the Kafka articles make your point, or perhaps I've misunderstood it: his three best-known works are all to be found under their English titles - The Metamorphosis, The Trial, and The Castle. Alfietucker (talk) 21:39, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

p.s. I realise I didn't answer your first question. I'm not sure whether it's helpful to give a translation, which means something like "Bright holiday" or "Holiday of light". Alfietucker (talk) 21:46, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

(ec) What did I not understand? In Kafka, all works are in German with a translation to English. (All works' articles are in English, - that is history, and hard to change.) But in Wagner, one work was in English ("he nevertheless reworked both the Dutchman and Tannhäuser on several occasions"), all others in German. It was changed during the FAC process. - Different question: I would be interested in the biblical quotations in the score, however, the links are not too helpful. What do you think of Psalms 68:1–2 instead of a link to Psalm 68? - Bright holiday is a wonderful title, yes, please, make that known! Incidentally, I heard the premiere of Bright Blue Bird... on Sunday. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:04, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi Gerda - I've had a long day (because of "real life" events), so I think I'd better turn in now. I'll come back to this later. All best, Alfietucker (talk) 22:12, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Britten's cause of death

By coincidence Jack of Oz has been on the case too. Please see my talk page, where your comments at User talk:Tim riley#Kildea's claim about Britten's medical condition would be most welcome. Tim riley talk 16:53, 26 June 2014 (UTC)7

I say! The above sprat caught not a mackerel but a large and tasty turbot or halibut. Thank you, dear Alfie. Tim riley talk 18:38, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

My pleasure. Or at least, I felt it important enough to reply: having thought it was too trivial to make a fuss about, I realised on second thoughts that the basis for such a claim was so slender that to add anything further would be WP:UNDUE, or at least contrary to Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources and undue weight. 'nuff ced (as Gustav would have signed the matter off). Alfietucker (talk) 18:48, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Your clear-eyed weighing of the evidence is invaluable. I'm a credulous soul who usually believes the last thing said to him. Cf Bertie Wooster: "Anybody can talk me round. If I were in a Trappist monastery the first thing that would happen would be that some smooth performer would lure me into some frightful idiocy against my better judgment by means of the deaf-and-dumb language." Tim riley talk 19:31, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't believe a word of this - but glad what I said made sense. :-) Alfietucker (talk) 20:11, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

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Removal of articles on "Noye's Fludee" and "Royal Hospital School.

The participation of the RHS band was an important milestone for them. The band often performed gratis at local garden fetes and exchanged with the HMS Ganges band for Victoria day ceremonies. But outside of that had never performed publicly and certainly never in conjunction with the likes of Benjamin Britten, Owen Brannigan and Jimmy Blades et al.

Also the reference to the tea cups being "ill-tuned" is obviously incorrect!!! To imagine that Benjamin Britten and Jimmy Blades would have done that is preposterous!!

My name is Ken Franks, RHS 1953-1958, Blake 26 and I was part of the Bugle contingent at both performances as was my friend Beckett of Howe house. We were billeted at a "holiday" camp (educational camp?) in Chigwell. We were positioned in the Nave of the church (for acoustical purposes) for both performances so I can't imagine that we appear on any photos.

The incident with the tea cups was startling and I am sure they had a reserve set in future. Try starting the rain with one of the centre cups missing!

If we only publish what has already been published then obviously we will eventually reduce our knowledge to nothing! 70.72.58.5 (talk) 20:29, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi User:70.72.58.5, I added your signature this time, but do please add this next time you post by adding four tildes to the end of your message.

I see your point about only publishing what has only been previously published, but that's a principle Misplaced Pages works by to ensure verifiability. On the other hand I think it would be a shame to lose the details you can provide about that first performance of Noye's Fludde, and wonder whether you shouldn't see if you can publish an article somewhere about your memories of that performance, perhaps involving any other performers you are still in touch with. Perhaps the Britten-Pears Foundation may be interested, or could point you to an appropriate place to publish such an article.

I'm not sure which reference you have in mind re "ill-tuned" tea cups: do you mean where the article says "roughly tuned tea cups"? I think the wording is meant to cover the fact that teacups don't give a "pure" note but each tend to have what might be called "splashy" (and so quite appropriate to represent rain drops!) overtones - in effect a cluster of notes with one note predominating.

I've also posted a reply to your message at the talk page of the Royal Hospital School. Best wishes, Alfietucker (talk) 19:53, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

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