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Thanks again :) --Ocaasi, Doc James and the team at Wiki Project Med Foundation — Preceding unsigned comment added by MediaWiki message delivery (talk • contribs) 19:16, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

DVMt/Neuraxis

Hiya, he said, transparently trying to install a false feeling of security and friendliness before diving in for the throat. ;) You indicated at MfD that you believe Neuraxis had also used at some other time another rather similar name. I'm not sure what evidence you might have for that but if there is any reason to suspect sockpuppetry there I think it would be reasonable to present it if and when Neuraxis appeals the existing siteban. John Carter (talk) 18:19, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. And I should apologize if the above smartass comment actually came across as hostile. Dealing with, um, certain people for too long and seeing their sometimes ridiculous accusations can get more than a little irritating, as I think you probably already know quite well. Unfortunately I do at times vent my own spleen in what might be considered inappropriate ways and I apologize if this seems to have been one of those instances. John Carter (talk) 18:52, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Because accusations of Sock Puppetry are so poisonous (and because I want to hide the fact that I am really Beaker), I reject them all unless there is compelling evidence attached. --Guy Macon (talk) 20:09, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Quacks

It's funny to see a promoter of chiropracty calling someone else a quack. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:00, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

You're doing it again

Please slow down and TRY to actually gain some consensus for your edits at Acupuncture. Yet again you are flying in the face of several editor's objections and exhibiting ownership behavior. You may have some legitimate reason to question some of million gold coin's recent edits, but that does not give you the right to undo all the work of Middle8 and others over the last few days. I believe you are sneaking around discussion by using MGC edits to justify undoing Middle8's. Don't do that. You have been clearly edit warring and I suggest you stop since you have a history of getting banned for that. Herbxue (talk) 17:59, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

I'm not making the controversial edits or adding original research to the lede. On the contrary, you continue to edit war and you ignored the problems. QuackGuru (talk) 18:09, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

My edit history is so mild and congenial compared to yours, thanks for pointing that out :).Herbxue (talk) 18:59, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

You are not helping to fix the problems. See Talk:Acupuncture#Duplication. QuackGuru (talk) 19:01, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Shotgun approach is going to lead to trouble again

You know that of any of the admins on this site, I'm one of the most sympathetic to your cause. I can also tell you that you are being your own worst enemy again. Bringing three people that you are in a conflict with to ANI and SPI simultaneously without some very good evidence connecting the three accounts looks more like a temper tantrum than a serious effort to use our noticeboards properly.

Can I ask you to talk with me before you bring things like this to noticeboards? I can help you see where you are being unconvincing and where you are making leaps of faith. The woowoo articles have always attracted problematic editors, so no single report is going to fix the world. You can make reports so badly that no one listens and nothing gets fixed, though, and that seems to be the path you are going down.—Kww(talk) 18:31, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

• I am here to back Kevin's suggestion up. Please do not make any further reports at AN/I or SPI without getting an admin to look at them first. It looks terrible to continually report people you are in content disputes and it will not be allowed to continue. If you continue to make reports like this it will become necessary to block you again, something I am sure we would all prefer to avoid. --John (talk) 21:05, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

I think we should apply the same rules for all editors. Just like administrator Kww wrote on my Talk Page: "The next sign of abusing administrative noticeboards to further pseudoscientific POVs will result in an indefinite block.". Whereas Kww would have blocked any other editor, should we allow QuackGuru some special privilege in this case? Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 21:59, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

During my editing history, this is already the third case concerning QuackGuru where Kww is stepping in (the others: a ANI case filed by QuackGuru which Kww closed against me without any give reason, and ). I think Kww should step aside with regards to this case. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 22:03, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Jayaguru-Shishya, I don't think your comment here is helpful. Everybody (including yourself and Quack Guru) needs to focus less on other editors. Hypothesizing about what Kww would have done in other situations isn't going to help resolve the dispute. Also, it's common for administrators to intervene multiple times in the same dispute. I trust that Kww is experienced enough to know when he has become too involved in a case to use the admin toolset, and as far as I've seen myself, he hasn't used any admin powers in this dispute since May of this year. ~Adjwilley (talk) 23:21, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes we seriously need to have all editors who comment about one another on the talk pages to stop. This is only a slight improvement and the comments really should have been removed entirely.

With respect to raising concerns at ANI. It is better than continuously raising them on the article talk pages. Yes agree raising three is too much at one time. QG; however, did picked up a bunch of socks just a couple of days ago so yes his involvement in this topic area is very important. He provides some balance. In fact we got a very positive review of our alt med content in this journal article here Doc James (talk · contribs · email) (if I write on your page reply on mine) 02:52, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Positive reinforcement is no bad thing (so to speak), and that's truly good news about WP getting a good review. --Middle 8 (leave me alone • talk to me • COI?) 00:56, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

With all due respect to Doc James and Kww, I feel like you guys are missing the point with QG. He started edit wars soon after getting topic banned for a week, then he wasted everyone's time with an ANI, and Kww you give him advice on how to do that better? And talk about the other editors as problematic? Come on. Herbxue (talk) 15:41, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Part of this process has to be letting go of bad feelings you guys have for each other. If you can all remember that the other guy is here to try to improve the encyclopedia, that'd be great. If anybody sees real-time evidence of the contrary on any side, please let me know. Until that happens, can we stay positive? We need a clean slate now going forward. Can you all try? --John (talk) 17:25, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

A clean slate would be great. We need one pretty badly. Among other things, there has been a pendulum-swing such that some fringe topics are treated overaggressively and disruptively. Jytdog described the dynamic well (leave aside the context of his comments; they are broadly true):

On WP it's become common to label editors as "fringe pushers", "woo proponents", and "civil POV-pushers" (a label that, cf. Jytdog above, seems to suggest that incivility is an acceptable remedy). This is especially bad when it means that an editor's contributions are devalued irrespective of their merits. Can we agree that a clean slate also means that we stop NPA vios such as these (all from the past six months or so)?

• ES for a revert: "Three or four known fringe pushers."
• ES from same editor, after being cautioned about such comments: "nevertheless, only fringe pushers have approved this edit. Please get a decent consensus first"

• "To be strictly correct, I have no position on this: the sourcing is various enough for me not to want to bother arguing with the acupuncturists here."

• re a discussion of WP's policies on pseudoscience: "Middle 8 gave an acupuncturist's view after everybody else had moved on."
• same thread, second editor: "In addition, I would suggest that except for acupuncturists here, there is consensus that it is a pseudoscience"
• again from second editor: "How can a scientist actually be an acupuncturist?"

It would be great to get more light and less heat into CAM and other fringe topics, and it would help a lot to include more editors, especially experienced ones. Not all topics are equally fringe, but they are sometimes treated as such. Criticism of CAM has become a one-way ratchet, and when a topic is depicted too negatively, any pushback is condemned as fringe-POV-pushing (an example would be the relative safety of acupuncture; paragraphs are devoted to adverse events that are very, even exceedingly, rare). It's all become too polarized and we need fresh eyes. --Middle 8 (leave me alone • talk to me • COI?) 21:46, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

On the other hand, you guys could stop fringe pushing. That would be more in the wikipedia spirit. -Roxy the dog (resonate) 05:47, 6 July 2014 (UTC)