| Revision as of 13:12, 16 July 2014 editAlexikoua (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers43,073 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit | Revision as of 14:13, 16 July 2014 edit undoAlexikoua (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers43,073 edits next page gives both the number of the claimed refugees and the deadNext edit → | ||
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| ::'''Keep''': The current version of the article is cited by reliable references (at least about the 12,000 local civilians massacred), per ] the claim that 12,000 inhabitants were massacred in Izmit peninsula is generally accepted by an Allied commission that invaetigated the case. Also per ] the massacre is confirmed by an Allied commission (attrocities happenned from both sides as the conclusion describes, with the one side being more violent). As for the previous versions, there were heavy pov issues to fix indeed (pov, or etc) thus most part of it had to be removed, not the mention the general disruption caused by the creator of the article. ] (]) 12:54, 16 July 2014 (UTC) | ::'''Keep''': The current version of the article is cited by reliable references (at least about the 12,000 local civilians massacred), per ] the claim that 12,000 inhabitants were massacred in Izmit peninsula is generally accepted by an Allied commission that invaetigated the case. Also per ] the massacre is confirmed by an Allied commission (attrocities happenned from both sides as the conclusion describes, with the one side being more violent). As for the previous versions, there were heavy pov issues to fix indeed (pov, or etc) thus most part of it had to be removed, not the mention the general disruption caused by the creator of the article. ] (]) 12:54, 16 July 2014 (UTC) | ||
| ::'''Comment:''' About the nom. there is a claim about 12,000-15,000 Christian refugees indeed, in p. 10, ''but in p. 11''] (section: Excesses committed by the Turks) gives both the claimed number of refugees and deaths: "more than 12,000 persons massacred, 2,500 missing, and the remainder of the population *more than 15,000) living as refugees in Ismit".] (]) 14:13, 16 July 2014 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 14:13, 16 July 2014
Izmit massacre
- Izmit massacre (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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This article was subject to heavy POV-pushing from both pro-Greek and pro-Turkish editors. Created by a sock of a blocked user, it misrepresented sources and cited disputed or even discredited scholarship (see Footnote 36). In particular, there was no source for the number of 300 dead (as opposed to "missing"). Then it was turned into an article on Turkish atrocities in the same district, again misrepresenting sources, this time turning 12,000 to 15,000 "Christian refugees" into "massacred local civilians". In short, neither version contained evidence that a massacre of the claimed scale happened in Izmit. Without evidence that a massacre happened, we should not have an article about it. Huon (talk) 22:54, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:10, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Turkey-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:11, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:11, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:11, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:11, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep: The current version of the article is cited by reliable references (at least about the 12,000 local civilians massacred), per ] the claim that 12,000 inhabitants were massacred in Izmit peninsula is generally accepted by an Allied commission that invaetigated the case. Also per ] the massacre is confirmed by an Allied commission (attrocities happenned from both sides as the conclusion describes, with the one side being more violent). As for the previous versions, there were heavy pov issues to fix indeed (pov, or etc) thus most part of it had to be removed, not the mention the general disruption caused by the creator of the article. Alexikoua (talk) 12:54, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
- Comment: About the nom. there is a claim about 12,000-15,000 Christian refugees indeed, in p. 10, but in p. 11] (section: Excesses committed by the Turks) gives both the claimed number of refugees and deaths: "more than 12,000 persons massacred, 2,500 missing, and the remainder of the population *more than 15,000) living as refugees in Ismit".Alexikoua (talk) 14:13, 16 July 2014 (UTC)