Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 17:30, 16 July 2014

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Stevie Nicks article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1Auto-archiving period: 30 days

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Stevie Nicks article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1Auto-archiving period: 30 days

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Biography: Musicians This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians (assessed as Top-importance). Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. LGBTQ+ studies This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Misplaced Pages. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion. Explanation for inclusion in WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies: Nicks is a Gay iconLGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Rock music Top‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Rock music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Rock music on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Rock musicWikipedia:WikiProject Rock musicTemplate:WikiProject Rock musicRock music Top This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. United States: Music / Arizona High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject American music (assessed as Top-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject Arizona (assessed as Top-importance). Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. California: Los Angeles / San Francisco Bay Area Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject California, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the U.S. state of California on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CaliforniaWikipedia:WikiProject CaliforniaTemplate:WikiProject CaliforniaCalifornia Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by Los Angeles area task force. This article is supported by San Francisco Bay Area task force (assessed as Low-importance).

witch rumors (media reference)

In the Harry Potter parody in Treehouse of Horror XII, Lord Montymort (Montgomery Burns) says that Lisa Simpson is "witchier than Stevie Nicks"... AnonMoos (talk) 01:58, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

1975-78:Fleetwood Mac and Rumours section. Re:Silver Springs.

Paragraph five, sentence two reads,"Nicks had also written and recorded the song "Silver Springs", but it was ultimately not included on the album because of space limitations for studio albums on vinyl records,which were limited to 24 minutes per side."

It seems to me that time constraints may not have been the only reason, if the real reason at all, for not including "Silver Springs" on "Rumours". I 'm not challenging the 24 minute limit. The Misplaced Pages article on L.P. records makes it clear that a 24 minute limit would be desirable for audio quality and/or technical reasons.

There is only one reference, at the end of the paragraph, for a fan site and link. (nicksfix.com/offtherecord.htm) The link contains a transcript from a radio interview with Nicks decades after the "Rumours" sessions. What is in the transcript doesn't quite match the above quote. In The interview Nicks says "Well, their reasons are, it was too long, and so, without asking me… or telling me… they recorded I Don’t Want to Know…. and put Silver Springs on the back of Go Your Own Way…. which was probably one of the most devastating things anybody has ever done to me in my life…."

Hmmmm. Earlier in the interview Nicks talks about the collaborative process of the band taking one of her songs and working on it to be recorded in the studio. Apparently, and she implies this, the song was set to be included on the album. ( the Wiki article on "Rumours" also states this. ) Seems to me the time issue would have come up at some point before the decision to include the song on the album. The running time for side one of "Rumours" ( per my copy, U.S. release 1977 ) is 19 minutes, 24 seconds, so a edited or re-recorded version of the song at around 4 minutes could have easily been included on the record on side one without any deletions of other songs. The 2004 C.D. release has the song after "Songbird", which could have been done as well in 1977 on side one of the L.P. with an edited or re-recorded version and been within the 24 minute limitation. ( Original studio version of "Silver Springs" is 4:48 as given in the "Rumours" Wiki article for the album. The Live version released as a single from "The Dance" in 1997 is 4:29 as given in the Wiki article for "Silver Springs". )

I accept the 24 minute limit for L.P. sides as an industry standard, and I believe the decision to include "Silver Springs" on "Rumours" had been made and later changed, and I believe an edited or re-recorded version of the song could have been included on the album within the 24 minute limitation, so then the 24 minute limitation as the only explanation for deletion of the song from "Rumours" in this article, just does not suffice for me, especially in light of what Nicks says in the interview from the reference given, and the more than four minutes that was available on side one of "Rumours".

The time constraint reason is repeated in the Wiki article for the song. The reference given there is for the 1997 Documentary of the making of the album, which I have not seen and, may give a satisfactory explanation.

Without a creditable reference to support the assertion that the song was excluded from "Rumours" solely because of the time constraints of L.P. records, it should be removed. I think a paraphrasing of what is said in the Wiki article on "Rumours" should be good enough for this article. "Silver Springs" (4:48), a song written by Nicks, was recorded at the same sessions and intended for inclusion on Rumours. It was eventually released as the B-side of "Go Your Own Way" and has been restored to later reissues of the album.

Also the last sentence of paragraph five in this section states, "The song, the rights to which are owned by Nicks' late mother Barbara...

There is nothing about Nicks Mother owing the rights to the song in the text the reference links to, this too should be referenced from a creditable source or removed.Jonel469 (talk) 15:46, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Good analysis and conclusion. The issues you bring up make me think that the issue needs more references telling about it rather than more contemplation on our part. Here's what I found out about "Silver Springs" in books:

• Rumours Exposed: The Unauthorized Biography of Fleetwood Mac, page 203
• Billboard, August 16, 1997
• Making Rumours: The Inside Story of the Classic Fleetwood Mac Album, pages 294–297. In this book, the engineer Ken Caillat says that the producer wanted to stay under 22 minutes per side (which would allow a higher quality sound with a deeper and wider groove than 24 minutes). Caillat puts the location as the Record Plant in Hollywood, not the one in Sausalito. He confirms that Nicks was unhappy, but he says she recorded a really good performance despite her bad reaction. Binksternet (talk) 16:16, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank You very much. Jonel469 (talk) 16:22, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Caillat also says there was a concern that the album would have too many slow songs. To me, that seems like the real reason for kicking out "Silver Springs", because its replacement was a fast song. The difference in time between the two songs is 3:16 versus 4:26, so only 70 seconds. Side Two runs about 20:02, plus some between-song silence, so the longer song would still have been less than 22:00 total. "Silver Springs" could have fit! Caillat describes how everybody but Nicks was happy about having the faster song in place of "Silver Springs". Binksternet (talk) 17:34, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

I've changed sentence two and added one of the references you provided, and also removed the bit about song ownership from the last sentence. Jonel469 (talk) 17:42, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

I was just reading the preface of "Making Rumours" and on page xiv Mr. Caillat says ..."all came together to create Rumours at the record plant in Sausalito", but then on 294 talks about it being hot in Hollywood, so looks like both Record Plants were used ? Jonel469 (talk) 18:41, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, both Record Plants were used. The northern one in Sausalito was used for tracking. The southern one in Hollywood was used for mixing, and for recording all of the replacement song "I Don't Want to Know". Just for absolute clarity, the first Record Plant was in New York City, but it was never visited by Nicks or Fleetwood Mac. Binksternet (talk) 23:50, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

• Biography articles of living people
• All unassessed articles
• B-Class biography articles
• B-Class biography (musicians) articles
• Top-importance biography (musicians) articles
• Musicians work group articles
• WikiProject Biography articles
• B-Class LGBTQ+ studies articles
• WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies articles
• B-Class Rock music articles
• Top-importance Rock music articles
• WikiProject Rock music articles
• B-Class United States articles
• High-importance United States articles
• B-Class United States articles of High-importance
• B-Class American music articles
• Top-importance American music articles
• WikiProject American music articles
• B-Class Arizona articles
• Top-importance Arizona articles
• WikiProject Arizona articles
• WikiProject United States articles
• B-Class California articles
• Mid-importance California articles
• B-Class Los Angeles articles
• Unknown-importance Los Angeles articles
• Los Angeles area task force articles
• B-Class San Francisco Bay Area articles
• Low-importance San Francisco Bay Area articles
• San Francisco Bay Area task force articles
• WikiProject California articles