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Sussexman and legal threats.

On June 8th, User:Sussexman and User:Edchilvers had the following exchange:

*Comment Utter rubbish. GLF is not protected by the rehabilitation of offenders act and besides, the content of his Misplaced Pages article included a blatent falsehood in that it suggested he had been cleared of all charges on appeal. Seeing as the matter was widely reported in the national newspapers and has thus been in the public domain for some time I fail to see the harm in mentioning it as it is the truth.

- User:Edchilvers + User:Edchilvers.

• Comment: You're wrong Mr.Chilvers, as you will soon discover. Sussexman 07:48, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Today, Ed Chilvers received a letter from Gregory Lauder-Frost's lawyers threatening him with legal action. Sussexman's "as you will soon discover" would be a reference to this and should be taken as a legal threat. If Sussexman is not Gregory Lauder-Frost then he is intimate enough with him to be able to pass on a legal threat. He should be banned from wikipedia until the matter is resolved and until GLF either concludes or agrees to withdraw any threat of legal action. Homey 18:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• Thats what you'd like us to believe because you are and have always been a major player against GLF, his article, and anyone remotely associate with him. Anyone breaking our laws will "soon find out" and that is very standard parlance. You cannot link Sussexman with this letter. That it may have arrived at the same time as these discussions were continuing is merely co-incidental, Sherlock. Do you honestly think that banning one, two, three, or more people unless they contact someone they havn't seen for years, possibly a decade or more, and tell him to withdraw a perfectly justificable private and personal legal action will work? Justice does not operate that way. 81.129.155.181 21:38, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

How would they have gotten his mailing address? Paul Cyr 18:43, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

By googling "Ed Chilvers" or looking his name up in a British database. It seems from Ed Chilvers' web page that he has been the target of legal threats from Michael Keith Smith, a friend of Lauder-Frost's, in the past so it's possible Lauder-Frost already had Chilvers' contact info. Homey 18:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Got any proof, like a scan of the letter? -Hit bull, win steak 19:03, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Ed Chilvers mentions it here - he sent me excerpts of the letter after I emailed him about it.Homey 19:25, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

This sounds pretty serious. I'd recommend blocking until this can be looked into at the very least. --InShaneee 19:22, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I've been in a content dispute with Sussexman over Gregory Lauder-Frost so I'm not the person to implement a block. Homey 19:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

He has now been blocked indefinitely. FearÉIREANN\ 19:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I support the block. Sussexman has been consistently disruptive over any attempt to include content not flattering to Lauder-Frost. William Pietri put in some tremendous work digging up newspaper reports and showed that Lauder-Frosts's conviction for theft was the single most widely reported fact about him; Sussexman and a couple of anonymous editors were determined to remove this or at least relegate it to euphemistic references. Just zis Guy you know? 19:50, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• Glad you said "digging up" the dirt. Bit of agive away as to the agenda here, really. 81.131.122.17 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

And this post, which he intended for another user, is fairly close to a legal threat.

• That's just tripe and you know it. He is just stating a fact. 81.131.122.17 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Septentrionalis 20:37, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I also strongly believe that User:Sussexman is Gregory Lauder-Frost, given the similar tone found in the excepts of the letter Ed Chilvers received. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 21:16, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

• Strong beliefs seem to be only legitimate on your side of the fence. Pity its wrong. 81.131.122.17 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Support, as the person who blocked User:Lightoftheworld, probably leading Sussexman to veil his threats. Be on the look out for meatpuppets. --Sam Blanning 23:11, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Sussexman is not Lauder-Frost. Preposterous. Sussexman has defended the vitriolic attacks made upon someone he knew years ago and liked and felt a great injustice was being done to. He was quite right to tell people crossing legal boundaries that they were doing this and quite right to tell people that by doing so they would soon find out the consequences. That is not a legal threat and banning everyone who points out simple facts is not the way forward for Misplaced Pages which should not be above the law. 81.131.37.101 07:29, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

For values of vitriolic which include stating in terms of studied neutrality the fact that he was convicted of a substantial theft from the health authority where he worked. As far as I can the most of the vitriol has been directed against those who attempted to fix the inaccuracy of the article, by supporters of Lauder-Frost. Just zis Guy you know? 08:33, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• Here you go raving about the pre-1992 business as though it were last week and without the full knowledge of the matter. It was illegal to post details of this. Telling people this should be taken in good faith. Instead you ban people for it. 81.131.122.17 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I give my absolute support to Sussexman. I too posted information on how this cabal of smearers were breaking UK law. Any normal person would be pleased for the advice. But this lot knew what they were doing and were absolutely determined to smear GLF all over the world. Sussexman appears to be the third person they have blocked for "legal threats", yet none of them appear to actually be the person concerned and so were not in a position to threaten anyone! Is it Misplaced Pages policy to block out everyone whom you get sick of arguing with? 195.134.6.202 16:22, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

If you are acting as a proxy for someone else's legal threats, I consider it substantially identical to making them yourself. Misplaced Pages can't prove the relationship between the Misplaced Pages username User:Sussexman and the real-world individual Gregory Lauder-Frost, but I believe it does not really matter. Conveying threats from another non-Misplaced Pages party when one is not merely a messenger but an associate and clearly involved in an on-Misplaced Pages effort to suppress the same information differs little in actual effect from explicitly making them yourself.

I note also that GLF and/or friends and associates were quite happy to keep a lie on the page (that GLF was acquitted of theft on appeal) but are willing to sue on extremely flimsy grounds to hide the truth. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 19:25, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

• All rubbish, I'm afraid. The only person on "flimsy" ground on these issues seems to be you and the little gang of demonisers. 81.131.122.17 13:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm sorry to have to inform you that I bear Gregory Lauder-Frost no personal ill will whatsoever. I don't know him, have never encountered him, and did not even know of his existence prior to your first postings on this page about it. I am, however, interested in keeping an honest historical record, concerned about an attempt to censor relevant truth, and opposed to those who seek to chill discussion and publication of facts by using dubious legal threats. A brief, half-sentence mention of Gregory Lauder-Frost's criminal conviction in 1992 - which could not be considered any kind of "youthful indiscretion" or to be prior to his public life - is not unfair to him. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 15:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Just to update people on this, there've been further significant developments today. Amgine has reduced the entire article to a stub based on an apparent legal complaint (accessible through OTRS ). BradPatrick is already involved, though I'm not sure what the current state of play is. Further ongoing discussion is at Talk:Gregory Lauder-Frost.-- ChrisO 18:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it's not accessible through OTRS - it's been placed in a restricted queue, as is common with privacy complaints. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 18:55, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the correction. :-) -- ChrisO 19:04, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Since I must drudge up old conversation; Until there is conclusive proof that this was a reference to the legal threat/action, could we unblock? The content dispute is something to be handled by dispute resolution. --Avillia 22:22, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

IMO, no chance. We don't operate in a realm of absolute 'conclusive proof' here - but Sussexman is either Gregory Lauder-Frost or closely related to him and passing on threats from him. Either is blockable. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 21:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

WP:NLT is clear that a block must be maintained until the legal dispute is resolved. It's worth pointing out also that there is essentially no content dispute - the facts are uncontested; the dispute is over whether certain of the facts (i.e. GLT's conviction) can be included in the article, under English and Scottish law. If the dispute is resolved satisfactorily then maybe we can think about unblocking Sussexman. -- ChrisO 22:33, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

• You have deliberately tried to rubbish someone all over the WWW. naturally you will receive legal threats. People have to get on with their lives, not commit suicide because of your smears. 195.194.75.209 17:26, 28 June 2006 (UTC).

I support Sussexman, who appears not to be the first but the third User banned for these "legal threats". If ten people had come on and pointed out that you were all breaking the law with your reckless smears would you ban everyone? The question is, do you people think you can do anything and no-one can tell you you're wrong? I think you've got a bloody cheek. What's even worse is User:Homeontherange's current efforts to delete numerous UK biographies because he doesn't like Monday Club Tories or that Sussexman had some hand in writing them. What a bunch. 81.129.155.181 21:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I support Sussexman. There is a small team of anti-rightists at work here. I believe this blocking to be wrong. Tempers may fray sometimes but you cannot accuse everyone of legal threats because they state the obvious to other users who are clearly breaking the law. It appears that no less than three users have now been blocked for pointing out that Gregory Lauder-Frost was being defamed on Misplaced Pages. Had ten or twenty users argued like this would they all be blocked too? Are this gang above reproach? 86.139.185.202 11:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

That is not the issue here. Just because supporters of GLF say that UK law has been broken here does not mean to say that it is so. I refer people to the article on Stephen Fry which makes mention of his serving time in a Young Offenders Institution for cheque theft. If what the anonymous users are saying is true then this would also be illegal under UK law.And even if GLF does have a case then it is a civil as opposed to criminal matter. --Edchilvers 18:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

• Supporters of GLF? Does that include the UK government who pass the legislation, and the legal profession? 213.122.71.45 18:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

• Again I challenge you to cite precedent when a public figure has successfully taken action after his criminal past has been revealed. I have done quite a bit of research on this issue and am adament that no offence has been commited.--Edchilvers 09:13, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Hasn't been mentioned here, but Sussexman and 213.122.46.228 also drove a good editor called Humansdorpie off Misplaced Pages completely, by a threat that included "Is this a threat? Yes, it certainly is." (See User:Humansdorpie and User_talk:Humansdorpie#Gregory Lauder-Frost) JackyR | Talk 23:43, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I must take issue with the ludicrous claims made via the last post by JackyR. The simple facts are that Humansdorpie spent a considerable amount of time goading and teasing Sussexman with a load of garbage. Eventually it clearly reached the stage where he had had enough and responded in kind. I can see from all those involved in this series of witch-hunts that it is perfectly all right for "the gang" to use snide and cynical remarks, to make absurd claims, and to delete articles that required a great deal of time and effort on the part of others. But it is entirely inappropriate to respond under this concerted pressure. One is then accused of being horrid. It must be hard being perfect. I'm not and doubtless Sussexman isn't either. 213.122.71.45 18:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

• Not so. Humandorpie and myself was slandered as a 'red,' and a 'force of evil' on various extreme right wing forums all over the web. It was even suggested that the Misplaced Pages entries on our alleged 'heroes' Marx and Lenin should be vandalised in retaliation over the GLF article. --Edchilvers 09:13, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Anyone doubting my "ludicrous claims" can simply follow the links and read for themselves. JackyR | Talk 11:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Brian G. Crawford again

This threat of physical violence does not impress me. According to the article about the artery he's referring to, his threat would be lethal. I'd say another block is in order? CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 04:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Agree with block. The comment in question is threatening and unwarranted under any context -- Samir धर्म 04:18, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Bishonen | talk 04:21, 27 June 2006 (UTC).

Cartoid sinus/fingernail conflation is never good. As to the broader question, having followed the recent BGC discussions here only cursorily, I wonder whether anyone attempted to ascertain the reasons for his recent devolution? I don't mean in any way to suggest that his behavior has been appropriate, but I always knew him to be a sincere, if sometimes abrasive, editor, one who surely favored logical debate over (largely incoherent) personal attack, and who would not, in any event, write in the fashion in which he now seems to write. Even for Misplaced Pages, where valuable contributors sometimes become disruptive with celerity, this change seems odd. Joe 05:04, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

So how long? I can't say I'm familiar with this user's history or the type of threat. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 05:32, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

This person should be blocked until Jimmy Wales says otherwise, this is physical threat which could be potentially lethal if acted upon. Yamaguchi先生 05:39, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Realized that User:Brian G. Crawford hadn't been informed of this conversation, and informed him on his talk page --Samir धर्म 05:42, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Not sure what country Mr. Crawford lives in, but in the United States and United Kingdom threats of violence like this constitute assault. Yamaguchi先生 05:46, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I've blocked him for ten days. I suspect Guy might be right that some extra-wiki goings on have put Brian on extreme edge, especially as he'd never been blocked until a week ago and has now been blocked twice for the same sort of lashing out. Of course, there's no excuse to threaten users with violence. Other admins are free to review the situation and my block, and change it if you feel it is appropriate to do so. JDoorjam Talk 05:47, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Yep I'd agree with that. Well you know that's supposed to be the point of blocks. Preventive, not punitive. --Woohookitty 07:00, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

It's a shame. I think Brian has external issues, but I also think that User:Badgerpatrol did not exactly help here, epecially after I posted a header asking people not to troll. That said, the problem is with Brian not with other people (except in as much as they engage in the addition of ludicrous sophomoric content which annoys people like Brian and me, not that I'm saying Badgerpatrol does this since I've not looked). I'll email Brian again. Just zis Guy you know? 09:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm quite annoyed at being accused of trolling here, JzG. My commentto Brian was in response to this diatribe on my talk page, which (I think) was in turn prompted (in some tangential way) by this. In hindsight, I regret that last comment, but I certainly don't think it was offensive or provocative, nor out of keeping with the normal back and forth associated with RfA discussions. I haven't ever been engaged in any previous disputes with Brian (except for good-natured and good faith discussion on AfD), and in the past I've actually tried to mitigate his abrasive behaviour (e.g. , see also this)). I'm not upset with Brian; if he's having problems he's having problems, everybody does stupid things sometimes in difficult circumstances, and the style of his comments (which admittedly was always robust and abrasive) has recently changed to such an extent that I frankly wonder whether his account has been hijacked by someone else, as seems to have happened in the past. If anything, I'm a bit more aggrieved at being accused of trolling- that just isn't the case, and it's all a bit disappointing. Badgerpatrol 12:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Additional history on Brian's edits at Asperger's syndrome: — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rdos (talk • contribs)

Quite frankly, that's the most sensible thing Brian has said recently. Proto///type 10:50, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Not very sensible, because it is not the consensus there. Most of the editors happens to agree with my opinion and not his. The accusations were also totally unfounded. --Rdos 10:58, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I have to say, I'm in Proto's camp on that one. Sorry, but it's true. -Hit bull, win steak 13:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind. As long as these "agreers" doesn't have a Category:Aspergian Wikipedians tag on their user page I will only take it as more neurotypical bullying. --Rdos 13:06, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

That's fine, we'll just self-diagnose like you did and all will be well... Just zis Guy you know? 13:18, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Why don't you do that? Try the Aspie-quiz! ;-) --Rdos 14:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

No, I think it's better to go the whole hog and make up my own test... Just zis Guy you know? 20:21, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

You'd better distribute it to some hundred (or preferable thousands) participants and let them indicate if they are diagnosed. Ideally, you should screen all particpants for ASDs with DSM. Then you can take it yourself and compare results. It's not as easy as you claim it is. I've spent many hundred hours on this project. Additionally, many participants in the autistic community and others have helped my by taking time to fill it out. Aspie-quiz is probably one of the largest databases available on autistic traits. --Rdos 20:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I think that this violent and abusive user should be blocked for longer. Skinnyweed 20:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Paul adams (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This user is repeatedly vandalising the George Galloway and Mazher Mahmood articles, adding erroneous information and blanking large amounts of content . This has been going on since early April. The user attacks only these two articles and ever since Mazher Mahmood, an undercover reporter, was exposed trying to bribe a British politician, George Galloway. It is no coincidence that the journalist in question has attempted legal measures to prevent the publication of his photograph - which failed - and now Paul Adams is attempting to remove the journalist's photograph from Misplaced Pages. He refuses to engage in any meaningful discussion, despite appeals on his talk page. On the Mazher Mahmood talk page, the user writes in block capitals, accusing Misplaced Pages of assisting paedophiles and drug dealers by publishing the photograph. Instead of continually having to revert his vandalism, could the admins just block him?--الأهواز | Hamid | Ahwaz 10:30, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Paul adams (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is continuing to vandalise the Mazher Mahmood article, removing sourced material and Mahmood's photograph: . I wonder whether anyone is going to take this seriously and block this vandal, or shall I just keep reverting regardless?--الأهواز | Hamid | Ahwaz 23:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

The situation is repeating itself today on the Mazher Mahmood article: . Could it be locked in the unvandalised state (ie the version with Mazher Mahmood's picture, which keeps getting removed)? And is there any possibility of enforcing a block on Paul adams (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and/or his IP address?--الأهواز | Hamid | Ahwaz 20:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Another act of vandalism by Paul adams (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). How long are admins going to ignore this? Please block the editor or lock the article on the unvandalised version.--الأهواز | Hamid | Ahwaz 12:15, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Yet another act of vandalism by the same user: - are admins going to continue to ignore this?--الأهواز | Hamid | Ahwaz 11:10, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Another case of systematic vandalism by Paul adams: - why are admins ignoring this?--الأهواز | Hamid | Ahwaz 12:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

• I agree with this poster 100%. This is ridiculous and the vandalism must stop. Stephenjh 23:41, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I too agree entirely with the above points. Paul adams is repeatedly blanking sections of the Mazher Mahmood article relating to the subject's exposure by British Member of Parliament George Galloway, falsely claiming the material, which is wholly factual and sourced, to be 'disputed'. He also constantly removes a photograph of Mahmood which has since April been deemed fit for publication after a ruling by the British courts. This user is in flagrant violation of several Misplaced Pages rules, and IMO should be blocked permanently, and a watch kept for possible use of sockpuppetry. (So far, there have also been a few instances of edits identical to those of the user in question being made from an anonymous IP address). Guy Hatton 17:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I've warned him. It would have got more attention if you'd put it on Misplaced Pages:Administrator intervention against vandalism rather than this overlong page. Secretlondon 12:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Provocative epitaph to Blu Aardvark as Wikipedian

Blu Aardvark started off, as many of us do, as a good earnest newbie Wikipedian. He did a few questionable things and got a taste of some of the Misplaced Pages community's officiousness. He did not handle it well and flamed out in a puerile fashion. He then co-founded a criticism site, quite likely with good intentions, but just stood by when it got out of hand and other members launched some vicious attacks. He had a change of heart and tried to come back to Misplaced Pages, but the community was unforgiving and reacted with anger. This time he left with class and maturity, trapping us in our own officiousness in a nice coup de grace. It sounds as if he has matured and learned from the debacle; let us hope that, in time, the Misplaced Pages community will as well. Martinp 04:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Of course, his final actions were nothing more than an attempt to sow confusion by playing the "Ohh look at me, I'm making good edits but you're blocking me anyway!" card. That is to say, he wasn't editing because he truly cared about making the encyclopedia better, only to try to make us look bad. --Cyde↔Weys 04:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

We really should avoid talking about other user's motivations, since it is complete supposition. - brenneman 15:06, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

AOL vandal

Some vandal has been repeatedly vandalizing carrot from AOL (using multiple IP addresses). I don't know exactly what to do about it (they have persisted despite multiple warnings, and from the edit descriptions it is obviously vandalism and not some newbie's tests). Mo-Al 04:12, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

The article is s-protected. (So now I suppose the AOLuser will simply indulge his squalid little masturbation fantasies elsewhere.) Hoary 05:19, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, they've started on my talk page. (see User_talk:Mo-Al#Quick question!) Mo-Al 15:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Your talk page can be s-protected too. Do you want that? Bishonen | talk 21:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC).

Not neccessarily. Can I post a warning on their talk page for that? Mo-Al 03:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted the vandal edits (and the associated reverts) from the history of Carrot, since some of the vandalism was in the edit summaries (which were also quite long and typed in ALL CAPS). —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 17:51, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

You'll have to again. Looks like there's some more vandalism. Mo-Al 01:30, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. Fixed it again. Bishonen | talk 12:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC).

I strongly suggest that this IP be banned. They have recieved multiple final warnings, and recently vandalized Today's Featured Article by blanking it and replacing it with hundreds of lines of nonsense. False Prophet 15:32, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I think maybe my userpage should be protected. It has been vandalized twice now. Mo-Al 04:28, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

No more often than mine has. Though "vandalized" seems to aggrandize the relevant, er, contributions of this birdbrain, who seems to be under the delusion that various people here (you, me, whoever) are proctologists. Your user page is on my watchlist. -- Hoary 05:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's not like the guy's blanking my userpage or anything, but I do think posting obscene comments counts as "vandalism". Mo-Al 05:13, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

IP adress 64.12.116.14 needs to be banned. It has recieved 29 warnings, 2 blocks, and 10 final warnings. It blanked yesterday's FA and replaced it with obsene comments. False Prophet 18:50, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, AOL doesn't work that way. The vandal would continue and hundreds of other AOL users would be inconvenienced when their IP hopped through that number. (ESkog) 18:59, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, he's vandalized from multiple AOL IP addresses (so, for all I know, all AOL users would be blocked). Mo-Al 19:01, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I have read the way Ip adresses work on AOL, but still, This adress repeatedly blanks pages, and I have yet to see a constructive edit. If someone has a problem with it, they can create an account. If there was a reason to believe that this IP was helping Misplaced Pages, I wouldnt request this, but within an hour yesterday, they blanked the same page 5 times, in 2 waves. Once 3 times in 30 minnutes, then waited a few minnutes, then continued to blank it. False Prophet 23:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

But that's the problem - they can't just create an account :) Logged in users will still be hit by AOL IP blocks (at least under the current blocking system, see WP:BPP). We can't say that IP isn't "helping Misplaced Pages" because that IP changes ownership every few minutes. That's the big problem with AOL and their proxy system - no one can be held accountable for their edits (even more so than regular anon edits). --james _{// bornhj (talk)} 02:32, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't think Mo-Al should have to put up with that, so I've semiprotected his talk. Mo-Al, please let me know if the person migrates to your userpage (very common move in my experience), then I'll protect that as well. I don't care about most kinds of vandalism to my pages—least of all a blanking—but if some particular kind of idiocy starts to get to me, then I sprotect for a few days. (That reminds me, time to unprotect my pages.) Admins can do that, and a regular user should get to make the same call. (A la lanterne les aristos!) Bishonen | talk 02:28, 3 July 2006 (UTC).

I was refering in general to the users of the IP adress. All of their edits have since been reverted. I have all ready voiced my opinion on WP:BPP. It isnt like this editor is trying to hide the fact their vandalizing. Their recent edits have listed the text they replaced the article with. I am just sick of tracking down vandals only to find out it's an AOL IP and I cant do anything that will change their editing habits. False Prophet 03:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Request for help

I've been trying for some while to keep a lid on a series of articles about personal rapid transit (PRT), where there is a tendency among the small community of editors to let their enthusiasm for the technology overcome what I view as the appropriate scpeticism of a technology which, after forty years, has zero installed base.

As part of this a cartoonist called Ken Avidor made some edits a while back as User:Avidor in respect of the camnpaign for PRT in his town. There was apparently some good old fashioned pork-barrel politics there. Thisgs are often heated but usually civil, however at least one editor has it in for Avidor, representing him as an extremist (in the way that creators of huge articles on non-existent products are not). Apparently because I am sceptical of the claims of PRT as a widespread urban mode despite its approval byu the German government (which nonetheless never actually built it), I am a POV-pusher like Avidor. Ah well, I'm an evil rouge admin and I can take it.

However, there are a number of things in Talk:Personal rapid transit, Talk:UniModal and Talk:ULTra (PRT) which might be construed as attacks on User:Avidor, who is no longer active here. He has posted to my Talk page asking if this is reasonable, I'm inclined to think not. Since I am not considered neutral by these guys (in a he who is not for me is agin me kind of way) I'd appreciate someone having a look at the comments made about Avidor on those pages. Thanks. Just zis Guy you know? 16:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I am one of the "enthusiastic editors" of which JzG speaks. I welcome more input into this issue. A Transportation Enthusiast 18:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I skimmed the pages quickly. Mostly the conflict is about figuring out what weight to give the companies' claims regarding PRT compared with independent analyses and analyses by other parties with varying degrees of involvement. I did find a number of comments (mostly on Talk:ULTra (PRT)) that could be construed as personal in nature, such as Avidor's positions are conspiracy theories with absolutely no verifiable basis. There is a certain amount of discussion of individual editors' motives (on both sides) that doesn't have any direct bearing on article content and could probably be deleted without harming the article's development. Thatcher131 19:53, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Please do. I await with baited breath some good citations fomr the engineering journals - thus far most of it comes either from designers of never-built systems or academics engaged in acrimony. Just zis Guy you know? 22:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

If you're looking for sources describing PRT technology, you might start with this volume that describes 8 years of US-government sponsored research from the 1970s. If that's not enough, take a look at some more recent research on the topic. There have also been fully functioning PRT prototypes built and tested in Germany, the UK, and Japan, and there are several others in active development.

Against this, the main sources of skepticism are:

1. An anonymously written unpublished article which is posted on the advocacy site of PRT's main transit competitor (light rail, which JzG favors), and which has been the subject of at least four rebuttals, and:
2. A political web site run by the aforementioned Road Kill Bill cartoonist, Ken Avidor, for whom JzG has expressed great admiration ()

JzG has balanced these two sets of sources and decided unilaterally that "skepticism is the majority view" on PRT, and used this as justification for suppressing verifiable information that runs counter to his skeptical view.

After three months, the debate rages on, as one admin has repeatedly reverted good edits from at least four different editors, based solely on the "article balance" argument. As you might imagine, things have gotten heated at times.

The debate is all there, in its full glory, if anyone is interested in reading in it. You'd better set aside about 15 hours, though. :-) A Transportation Enthusiast 01:16, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

• I removed some comments from Talk:ULTra (PRT) that might be broadly construed as personal attacks on Avidor. Since he has not edited PRT articles since April, I think it is unfair to him to have other editors talking about him and comparing their conduct to his (especially when the comparison is negative to Avidor). (He is not mentioned in Talk:UniModal, and on Talk:Personal rapid transit he was present at the time to defend himself.) Of course, in general I think that discussing the person rather than the content of his or her edits is generally unproductive, but at least the current participants can defend themselves. Thatcher131 03:06, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I have no issue with anything you removed (and I appreciate your dispassionate assistance in this matter), but I do feel we are being a little reactionary here. When Avidor was active he regularly referred to us as "wackos", "con-artists", "cultists", and "crackpots". Nothing in what was just removed remotely approaches that. Does this have anything to do with the fact that Avidor has publicly criticized Misplaced Pages and has joined this forum? A Transportation Enthusiast 04:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard of Avidor before today, much less his new associations. I also did not remove any comments directed to him or about him that dated to times when he was contributing and thus able to respond for himself. I just think it's poor form to make (arguably) negative comments about a user who has chosen to leave, because it forces him to either let the characterizations stand or to return against his wishes to defend himself, and I would have the same view about anyone else who has left the project. Thatcher131 04:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, I didn't intend to question your motives. I was just curious if other factors were driving this. A Transportation Enthusiast 05:07, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

No prob. It was a fair question. Thatcher131 06:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me. I don't have a problem with discouraging or mediating personal attacks. However, I very much do not like the idea that my, and the rest of our, edits have been censored. I will put the comments back in.

If you want to re"delete" them, please use a strikethrough so that future readers know what the hell we were talking about. Fresheneesz 19:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

These personal attacks on me in the Misplaced Pages Talk pages appear on Google searches of my name. Misplaced Pages is supposed to be an Encyclopedia, not an attack-blog. If A.T.E and Freshenneez want to keep writing about me, I suggest they create a Misplaced Pages page on Ken Avidor that accurately presents my views. If they want to attack me, I suggest they get a free blog at Blogger like David Gow did .Avidor 04:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Then why don't you complain to Google? Misplaced Pages can't be responsible for what Google displays. A Transportation Enthusiast 04:26, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Now that's just silly. Google just indexes the web; unless you propose that google not index wikipedia at all, obviously wikipedia is responsible for its own content. I think anything said about Avidor while he was an active participant should remain but it is just bad manners to badmouth someone behind their back, even in real life. If Fresheneesz had allowed the comments to remain deleted, they would have disappeared from Google the next time it indexed the site. You could try archiving all the old discussions and tagging the archive page with <nofollow>; I don't know for sure that will work, but it might keep google from scanning the talk archives. Short of a mutual agreement to "censor" the old discussions (in Fresheneesz' terms) I suppose the only other option is to persuade an uninvolved admin to actually delete the comments from the history. Thatcher131 13:47, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

My point was, the content had been removed (by you) and if Google still had the old content indexed then there was nothing that Misplaced Pages could do. I was not aware that Fresheneesz had re-inserted the comments.

But let me also make two additional points:

1. None of us could possibly know that Avidor had decided to stop editing. All we knew was that he hadn't participated in a while, and the fight that he had started was still raging between us and JzG. How were we to know he had left for good?
2. Almost everything that you removed referred to Avidor's well-documented views and claims. How is that considered a personal attack? We and JzG were debating Avidor's positions, which, by the way, are almost completely unfounded in reality. That's not a personal attack, that's stating what is verifiably true -- many of Avidor's claims have been shown to be innacurate or just plain false, including his most oft-repeated claim that PRT is nothing but a hoax, and its promoters, cultists and con-artists. Am I to be accused of hurling attacks for attacking someone's viewpoint that I'm a con-artist? A Transportation Enthusiast 14:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Jbolden1517 (talk · contribs) threatening per email.

Jbolden has threatened per email to vandalise and/or troll wikipedia. He seemed ok before, so this is very unfortunate. I've already removed him from the mediation cabal. There's not much more I can do. Be on the lookout for any unacceptable behaviour. Kim Bruning 17:11, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

This is a lie. I made no such threat. I will be filling an RFC to address what's going on here but I think a rumor on IRC has gotten out of hand. jbolden1517 17:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

And where can we see this email you speak of? Lapinmies 18:00, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

To defy Kim is to commit a act of blasphmey. All hail Kim! ALL HAIL KIM! --Avillia 22:37, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I have found JBolden's mediation help very useful in the past. I ask that you give him a second chance. DavidBailey 02:18, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

His mediation skills aren't in question, his ability to handle power is. Ral315 (talk) 20:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I respect Kim Bruning as one of the few users left who manages to keep sane when all hell breaks loose, but I wonder quite how things are developing here. The last I was aware of the situation, the user in question was not quite able to grok the informal nature of the mediation cabal, and I (and several other users) suggested he go beat the mediation committee into shape. I saw no evidence to suggest he was a poor mediator at that time.

Now I see he's branded a troll and various other names under the sun, and I'm confused as to what snapped, and when. Let's all step back for a minute and remember that this is a person who's putting their patience and own sanity on the line to help resolve disputes with other users, and who now faces his peers, but is unable to proceed as would be logical for a bunch of mediators to do so. I don't want to accuse people of taking sides, but there's a hell of a lot of rapid throwing about of words here.

Let's look at this with a half-clear head. JBolden's interactions with other users sometimes leave a lot to be desired, but the same can be said of myself, a number of trusted users on Misplaced Pages, and even Kim himself. I'm quite convinced at this point that a lot of confusion from a lot of people is contributing to further confusion and a lot of needless upset.

If the mediation cabal is so informal, then where did you obtain the book you now appear to be lobbing? robchurch | talk 21:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Long story short, Jbolden slammed himself headlong into a wall. Sucks, I thought he was doing well up to that point. He was ok at mediation, he was less skilled as a (co-)coordinator.

I specifically delegated the mediation cabal so I have time to do other things. I kept having to pick up after jbolden-as-coordinator, and wasn't getting around to other things.

He refused to hand over to more competent people in any kind of nice way. I had no time for a lot of trouble. In the end I applied a PowerAnswer.

The mediation cabal is now in the hands of solid people, and there is even a measure of oversight over them. Kim Bruning 21:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Bazzajf

I wonder if someone could look into the behaviour of Bazzajf . I am particularly concerned about this threat. I have been working with SP-KP to attempt to get a factual verifiable article and this is the response I get from a POV warrior trying to wreck the verifiability of teh article. Robertsteadman 20:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I've blocked him for a month - looking over his talk page and his contributions, this sort of abuse and harassment has been going on for far too long. --ajn (talk) 21:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks.Robertsteadman 21:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I attempted to communicate rationally with the user, but Bazzajf seemed determined to continue to insult people despite the fact that the user has just been blocked for a month for it. I've not intention of letting Bazzajf continue to insult people, including myself. Usertalk page fully protected. --Lord Deskana 21:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Suspected_sock_puppets/Bazzajf is relevant here - IP 62.77.181.16 (an Irish government address, apparently) seems to be only used by Bazzajf, and I suspect he'll pop up on his favourite articles again, so it may be necessary to block that too. --ajn (talk) 22:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe that this makes the connection quite clear - less the edit but the edit summary comment... As does the fact the anon has added stuff to Bazzajf's user page.... If it was me I'd block both - indefinitely!!!!Robertsteadman 16:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

An indefinite block is uncalled for, although it's fairly obvious he's evading the block right now. Frankly, I thought a month was too much, too, but that's within reason. Bazzajf has shown a complete inability to remain civil, but I don't believe he's beyond help yet, and he does have some value to the encyclopedia. Powers 17:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I think we pussy-foot around far too much with people who are consistently and unrepentantly grossly offensive to others. I've blocked the IP address for a month too, since it only ever seems to have been used by him. This is his sixth or seventh block for edit warring or personal abuse (depending on whether you count the penultimate one) in the month he's been here. The last time he was blocked for personal attacks it was for a week, I don't see that a month is at all excessive as a further step. --ajn (talk) 20:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the IP address seems to be on a shared computer with several users, including one other registered Misplaced Pages user, so the address can't be blocked. --ajn (talk) 14:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Reviewing the edits of Starsweep, created the day after I blocked Bazzajf, I'm convinced they are the same person. There's now a permanent block on Starsweep, and two months on Bazzajf and the IP address. --ajn (talk) 08:19, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Homeontherange

Formal complaint about this User who, startlingly, is classified as an 'administrator'! He had for over 6 months attacked UK Tories in or associated with the Conservative Monday Club. This is clearly politically motivated and he is currently nominating numerous of these Tories who have modest biographies for deletion. If such campaigns are OK on Misplaced Pages I think you should say on your opening page that articles deemed to be giving any merit whatsoever to traditional Tories will be deleted. 81.129.155.181 22:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

If we promise to spank him, would you like to watch? --ajn (talk) 22:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

User:Mike Garcia has used AOL IPs to vandalize my original talk page in the past. Why isn't he banned? Why do trolls, vandals and malactors receive so much respect? Do i have to assume that RickK is right about Misplaced Pages? JohnHeph 22:17, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

WiC?--205.188.116.65 02:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

"JohnHeph" is, of course, Johnny the Vandal, and has been permablocked. User:Zoe| 02:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

• Not that this has anythign to do with Gregory Lauder-Frost, of course. Just zis Guy you know? 22:39, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Perish the thought. Bishonen | talk 22:43, 28 June 2006 (UTC).

Not funny, really, just a bit sad. 213.122.71.45 19:14, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Insane accusations surrounding Armando (blogger)

Will some disinterested parties please review the discussions taking place at Talk:Armando (blogger) and Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Armando Lloréns-Sar (2nd nomination) ? A fellow Misplaced Pages administrator has stopped short of accusing me of contributing to an article "designed to attack and harrass its subject". For the record, the subject of this article disclosed their name publicly on NPR over 8 months ago. Thanks in advance, Silensor 01:33, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I second this request, although not in the same language. I also want to know if a Template:Test2a (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) left on a user page for the removal of an Template:AfD (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) from an article under AfD constitutes a removable personal attack. I also invite to review the 1st AfD and the Deletion Review and my contribution to comment whether any of the accusations against me are warranted. Thank you. ~ trialsanderrors 03:26, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Comments such as this are exactly what I'm talking about. Silensor 20:06, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Policy is policy. You guys want to include information that the subject of the article considers harmful to him - info that is related to his (non-notable) real-life career, not his (possibly notable) blogging career. WP:BLP says "do no harm"...and yet, Silensor et al. insist on including the information. The page was established as an attack page initially. It did it's job - he quit blogging because his identity became widely known (via the Misplaced Pages article). There's a campaign to include information about his his clients and the law firm he works for. The subject of the article considers it a threat to his job. I have no idea why certain editors are so hellbent on including that information. Either it's just raw abuse of power, or a concerted attempt to hurt the guy. And they seem to think that it's "insane" to expect them to adhere to Misplaced Pages policy. Very interesting. Guettarda 05:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Rhadamanthus emerges from Hades for a brief moment

Folks, an AfD nomination is not part of evidence. This is very important. If a well established article is nominated, it's going to pass. We must never block and never make listing AfD's as part of evidence. The fellow in question is definitely abusive and inappropriate, but when you're blocking someone you can't take their response as evidence, either. If we start demanding that the people we block be nice in return, we're essentially asking people to apologize. We are not in power here. Administrators are not in charge. Administrators are the executive of policy, so we don't get to demand that nasty users apologize. Is HE worth blocking? Sure. Is he disruptive? Sure. I agree with moving to a second week's block, as the user is still fighting, but then go to ArbCom. Seriously. The insulted getting revenge with blocks just leads to more and it justifies every user who claims that "administrators" are the problem. Geogre 13:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

"The insulted getting revenge with blocks just leads to more and it justifies every user who claims that 'administrators' are the problem." You are reading into my motives. I really don't appreciate that. I did the 1 week block BEFORE he called me a moron. I didn't do the indefinite block. Nor would I have. I'm ok with a 1 week block or an indefinite block. But assuming that I did this out of some personal vandetta is uncalled for. --Woohookitty 14:05, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Then use ArbCom. Once you begin renewing a block because he's personally unpleasant to you, you're involved in the conflict, and it is inappropriate to up the blocks. As for your motives, I'm telling you how it will assuredly look to others. Use ArbCom or hand off. It's simple, and the only reason not to do so is passion, and passion is the reason you must. Geogre 16:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

WP:DR, WP:BITE. --Avillia 14:37, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Not sure who you are referring to. :) Geogre isn't new. Neither am I. And actually, neither is His excellency. He has been posting under that name and another name going back to January. --Woohookitty 15:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

• Geogre, that's nonsense. Nominating articles spuriously for AfD, when one should know better, is certainly disruptive, and just like any other act, it's something that can be used to suggest a block should occur. Responding inappropriately is similarly unacceptable. He merits a long block, and I don't think an indefinite block would be out of place. I understand there are people who have issues with authority who are out digging for things to be upset about them, but we shouldn't be afraid to do what's right for the encyclopedia just to keep such people happy. --Improv 14:43, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
  • • Nominating spuriously for an AfD can be part of a general pattern, but one when presented in evidence at ArbCom. However, I take a very strong line on this: an AfD nomination is not evidence by itself of disruption. First, it doesn't disrupt anything, as the AfD will go away automatically. Second, "spurious" is way too open to interpretation. I've seen many people want to hang people for nominating for deletion, especially during the moronic "all schools must be kept, no matter the content of the article, and all who nominate schools for deletion are trolls who should be blocked." Secondly, though, an inappropriate response is just nastiness. This user is nasty, but an indefinite block? No. That's ArbCom territory. Personal attacks being justification? Absolutely not. Finally, having the offended hand out the block is simply not done. This is not according to our procedures in any way. The advantages to handing off the block are numerous. The disadvantage is one: you don't get revenge. The long history of this user makes for a compelling ArbCom case, but not solo action. There is no divine right of admins. Insulting someone else vs. one of us is alike a hand-off to someone else for handling. Geogre 16:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
      • I don't think admins have divine right, nor do I think that insulting them is any more meaningful than anyone else. However, AfD for a topic that is completely within the bounds of an encyclopedia and clearly must be covered (unlike schools, which are contentious), purely for the reason that he does not like the content, is problem behaviour. The AfD was for the wrong reason, and was indeed spurious and a misuse of process. I think maybe the reasoning for an indefinite block would be a bit loose though (at least, provided the user has positive edits -- I have not checked), thanks to this discussion. Arbcom cases are generally reserved for when there is significant contention over a user's behaviour, or when the user has a long (and at least partly positive) history with the project. Admins should act, so much as possible, act as if they had no ego, thinking only of the good of the project. If Woohookitty was one of those insulted, then it probably would've been better if (s?)he had asked someone else to review the situation, blocking as appropriate. It is, however, inappropriate to assume that everytime admins make a judgement call, they must be on a power trip. --Improv 17:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Improv, you and I are generally in agreement, but I think that ArbCom is the proper court for very long blocks and hard bans. Short of that, we're being fickle and personal. If the argument is that ArbCom is slow and creaky, then we need to find a way to speed it, but if we unilaterally act and impose anything more than a week, we're turning Misplaced Pages into "I think you're bad." Because I don't trust any one, I trust everyone. I am often wrong, and so are you, but together we will be wrong much less of the time. This particular user is despicable, in my opinion. I think he probably is now irredeemable. However, I don't want any one of us making that call, as it should require many of us together to make it. If it isn't via ArbCom, it has to be via something beyond the individual administrator. I agree that admins have to act within their judgment in the interest of the project, but that judgment ought to be "Wow, this person needs to be examined by the community so that the community can speak." Traditionally, that has been via RFaR. If ArbCom is broken, we need a new fix, but when water flows around an obstruction in the stream, the result isn't always the best one. Geogre 18:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Wish I hadn't blocked him in the first place. Didn't want or expect a brouhaha. --Woohookitty 14:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
    • I think most of all it's the indefinite (which should be rare, handed out by ArbCom, and done after consensus, not before) and then the reasoning -- that he was nasty. NPA is not policy, and blocking for it should never short circuit all our rules, as it makes admins the lords and masters of the personalities on Misplaced Pages. We don't get to do that. Geogre 16:45, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Wrong on all counts. Admins do have the power to block people indefinitely, and they do so every day. If every single disruptive editor went before the ArbCom, we would need perhaps ten times as many arbitrators as we have now. WP:NPA is a policy, not a guideline; it's unbelievable that you, Geogre, keep claiming that it's a guideline even after it was demonstrated to you during the discussion of the previous indefinite block of His excellency that it was a policy. His excellency seems to have concluded from his previous indefinite block by Tom Harrison and the subsequent unblock by Bishonen that he has a blank check to do what he pleases; this case will only reinforce his conviction. Pecher 17:26, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
  • You are misreading a vast amount. It is not a policy in blocking. Read it again. Its policy force is, "It is our policy not to insult people." If indefinite blocks are going on every day, and if they're going on for personal attacks, then every one of those is out of process. In fact, if you read carefully, you'll see that they are not handed out individually for insults, and people are broadening, inappropriately, the "community patience" blocks. Geogre 18:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

George, NPA is indeed policy. If you don't think it should be, maybe you should try to change it. Woohookitty blocked for a week, which you seem to agree (now) is appropriate. Jeffrey O. Gustafson extended the block to indefinite. Woohookitty took it back to one week. So in a week he can come back. I think an indefinite block is appropriate; that's what I gave him before. Based on past experience, when he comes back he'll spew more vitriol. Tom Harrison 17:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I tend to agree with Tom. I don't have a problem with a week but on the other hand, I don't have alot of confidence that this user is going to stop doing what he was doing. It's not about assuming good faith. I think when you have a user who has been blocked 8 times, it shows a certain inability to change. --Woohookitty 05:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I have no objection to a week. I agree that he's awful, and I think that he should be RFaR'd. What I don't agree with it indefinite blocking for insulting language. NPA is a policy that says it is our policy not to attack. Note that there are no sanctions there. Note also that the proper course of action specified is the removal of the insult to an archived location with a placeholder saying where it went. Not blocking forever. I think this user should be gone, but not by unilateral action. It should be a slam dunk, fast ArbCom case, if ArbCom is meeting quickly. Geogre 18:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Here is my take... nobody is claiming that a single AfD in and of itself is disruption. But in combination with all his other disruption, and his clearly bad-faith misreading of AfD policy, it's a large strike against him. And as of yet I've seen only marginal evidence that H.E. is attempting to make productive edits. Within the past week to Dhimmi alone he has blanked material against consensus , quote-dumped against WP:NOT policy (with no references to boot) , added material using blatantly unreliable sources , and repeatedly re-restored examples of such after being reverted and chastised by other editors. Is he capable of contributing? Who knows. Combined with his dozens of personal attacks, racist statements, etc., I would say he's clearly exhausted the community's patience. But if the indefinite is not going to stick, then I'm all for sending this to ArbComm. Somebody want to write it up? - Merzbow 18:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

That's all I've been saying. I even think that you're right that this AfD was not the action, but rather the continuation of an action, that is evidentiary. However, I don't want any hint of a rumor of a whisper of a precedent set for blocking anyone for making an AfD, no matter how absurd or peevish it is. AfD doesn't hurt anything unless every voter there is asleep or crazy. Geogre 18:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Well doing what he did is disruptive. And I am sure that at some point, someone has been blocked for a disruptive AfD. --Woohookitty 15:22, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

User:CB Brooklyn

CB Brooklyn (talk · contribs) has been using unnecessarily nasty edit summaries refers to others as "trolls", MONGO is a troublemaker and needs to be flushed out of wikipedia, and when I asked him to make sure quoted items he placed into the article Steven E. Jones are referenced, he removes my posts from his talk page stating, removed toilet stuff, delete crap from toilet head and my favorite so far, delete garbage written by sick fuck. CB Brooklyn was recently blocked for 3RR on the same article. . Would someone please ask him to be more polite in his edit summaries. Thanks.--MONGO 08:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I'll take care of it. -- SCZenz 08:13, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

In my view, the user has already been amply warned about personal attacks. I gave him a reminder of NPA, CIVIL, and to not removed talk page comments, along with brief block (12 hours), and told him that blocks would increase rapidly if he made further blatant personal attacks. There's no excuse for name-calling of this sort. -- SCZenz 08:23, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

It should be noted that while CB Brooklyn's behaviour is clearly improper... MONGO himself has been calling Brooklyn and others 'trolls and morons'. If there is "no excuse for name-calling of this sort", which I agree with, then being an admin should not be a free pass to antagonize people and then say, 'look what he did', if they respond in kind. Admins are supposed to behave better than the average user, not worse. --CBD 10:42, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, your insults just keep piling up. I want you to demostrate in that edit you linked how I called Brooklyn a moron or a troll. It was a non directive comment...maybe I meant you...maybe I meant someone else, who knows. Point is, I can see no comparison to the edit you linked with the one in which Brooklyn reverts polite messages I post on his talk page and uses the edit summary of "delete garbage written by sick fuck".--MONGO 13:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

You request 'demonstration' of a connection you cannot see. Very well. Cyde questioned your blocks of people you were in a content dispute with . You responded by arguing that your blocks were justified because those people were "trolls", "POV pushing morons", "conspiracy theorists", and "nitwits" who were "vandalizing" and posting "crap" -> . You used those terms to describe the people you blocked... namely (per your log of blocks) Pokipsy76, SkeenaR, and CB Brooklyn. Not me or "who knows". Those three people. Can you see it now? --CBD 14:08, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, we can break that down if we want to take up the rest of the noticeboard. I was conversing with cyde....Brooklyn was responding to me. Indirect-direct. If you think my actions so egregious, then why not block me...you seem to relish wheel warring, which is pretty much a big no-no as far as some lofty powers here think...but that didn't stop you, no, you're exempt! Special!--MONGO 14:17, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Guys, calm down. The fact is, MONGO came here instead of unilaterally blocking CB Brooklyn. Let's not used this demonstration of responsibility on MONGO's part as an opportunity to criticize him. It's a bit odd, frankly, that a side conversation about a completely uninvolved editor is being brought into this discussion. JDoorjam Talk 15:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree strongly with JD. MONGO was asked not to impliment even obvious blocks against these users. Instead of using his tools in this instance, he did EXACTLY what he was told to do by his RFC - he was told to come here and present his case. He did. As such, he deserves praise for his appropriately changed behavior, not CBD going back to edits from just after the RFC was filed. If you, CBD, had wanted to block him for his edit on the 26th, you would have. Hipocrite - «Talk» 21:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Coming here to ANI is what many in the RFC are asking of MONGO. CB_Brooklyn (talk · contribs) is clearly violating WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL, and a block by a third-party admin is justified here. -Kmf164 (talk contribs) 21:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the block was justified. Yes, it is good that MONGO got someone else to do it. No, MONGO calling CB Brooklyn 'troll', 'conspiracy theorist', and 'moron' and then calling for a block and misrepresenting the history when CB Brooklyn responded in kind does not "deserve praise". --CBD 21:50, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

CBD, your harassment is getting tiresome.--MONGO 22:34, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe MONGO could use more polite words ("moron" is inappropriate). But, take a look at Misplaced Pages:What is a troll. -Kmf164 (talk contribs) 21:58, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Without commenting on this specifically, if we could as admins, all begin to demonstrate civil behavior it would be easier for us to enforce civil behavior. Any time we use words like "troll" or "idiot" we're mostly doing so out of laziness. It's simply not helpful, is not required, and almost always results in pointless discussion. Use polite and precise language wherever possible, things will go smoother.,
brenneman 01:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

For whatever my opinion as a non-admin is worth, everybody who has posted in this section has made a valid point. It probably deserves bearing in mind that everyone here has been engaged in a necessary, but very unpleasant excercise over the last couple of days. Therefore it is only natural that not everyone behaves the way they would like themselves to. I agree with the block, and I agree with Mongo referring it first. I also agree that comments on the block should not be made in the same nature as the reason for the block in the first place. In Mongo's defense, it would be hard for me not to be upset if edit summaries such the ones mentioned were directed at me. I'm taking an interest here because I would like it if we could edit articles without having to fight each other all the time. In my opinion, the articles would improve a lot better and faster if we didn't have to spend so much energy on conflict or resolution. I know that there are real issues involved in what should legitimately be included in the 9/11 articles, which naturally make for disagreements to arise, but please let's not try to be provocative with each other about it. I say that to all parties involved. I like to try and improve articles with whatever I might be able to contribute. I find it fun, educating, and challenging, but this kind of stuff makes it a lot harder for all of us when we spend our time on fisticuffs and what not instead of some nice writing or research or even just sharing some good information with each other. SkeenaR 06:32, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I have no problem with a little name calling as I do on occasion have a sense of humor, and CB Brooklyns edit summaries are less offensive than some I have seen. I am familiar with his other posts from elsewhere, and they show a similar temperment, but saw no reason to drag all that out...I wasn't even asking for a block if he would abstain from this manner of conversation, so all I was doing was requesting a neutral third party to step in, since his responses to my requests were simply becoming worse, not better. I do agree with the block, however. I also agree that all of us involved in the disagreements on the 9/11 articles, myself included, could tone things down a lot. Thanks.--MONGO 07:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

That's awesome, I just hope I'm not being naive in thinking that things are improving. Thanks for considering what I had to say. SkeenaR 07:32, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

User: F 22 - Users who exhaust the community's patience - well mine anyway

OK - I know I can look elsewhere but the puerile activities of F 22 (talk · contribs) are mostly pointless and breach What wikipedia is not with regard to user space. Do we do anything with such users or do we just ignore? Suspect this does not quite fit within Users who exhaust the community's patience--A Y Arktos\ 10:48, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Userpage looks perfectly acceptable to me. Lapinmies 15:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

• That's because I cleaned it. Of course, I wouldn't expect GNAA folk such as yourself to care much about keeping an appropriate userpage anyhow. --Improv 15:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmph, was that a personal attack? I am not amused. Lapinmies 15:36, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

That was a personal attack, and a totally unwarrented one. Had the above exchange not taken place, I'd have looked at the user page and thought the objection was to the mass of boxen. I don't think that "Communisim Sucks a Fat one!" in enought to exhaust our patience. He's made very few article edits, but so what? They've been useful edits. Someone is already having a nice chat with him on his user page, so why does this need to come to ANI? - brenneman 01:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

GNAA Folk, as Lapinmies is just another in a long list of those who have or had a presence on Misplaced Pages, have a habit of intentionally inflammatory and bizarre userpages that have frequently shown, at the very least, a lack of interest in harmonious participation in the project. This is a matter of fact, holding from the various incarnations of SPUI (an otherwise good editor in modern times who, apart from some current disputes, does not push things *too* far) to GNAA Timecop and the various other now permabanned members of the club. I find the attitude unfortunate, but we should not shy from speaking the truth out of being politic. I don't think my statement above should be construed as an attack. --Improv 05:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but I am not a member. My userpage is satire. Lapinmies 07:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Unless we have particular edits that are problematic, it's bad form to make judgements based upon identity. To use someone's identarian characteristics pejoratively is a personal attack. That seems pretty straight forward to me.
brenneman 14:59, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

When an identity has as its primary goal to make trouble, I think it's wholly appropriate. I am unapologetic. --Improv 22:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

• Just to clarify, I came upon the user because of problematic edits, perhaps not quite enough to warrant any action, other than a warning, which I gave, but ... and then you look at the sum of his other contributions, his user page, and I wondered, how do we manage? what should I do? - which is why I came here, for guidance.--A Y Arktos\ 22:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
• I have blocked the user for two days for continuing to maintain inappropriate content on their userpage. --Improv 14:49, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Blocked User:Rms125a@hotmail.com

Could an admin please investigate User:AbdulRahim@gmail.com and User:MaryLouise@gmail.com who I suspect are sockpuppets of banned user User:Rms125a@hotmail.com. This editor, like the banned user, is making petty edits to Irish related articles and making claims that other editors are "censoring", "revisionists" and "vandalising" them - the many of hallmarks of the banned user. Please investigate. Djegan 20:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know if someone has turned out the lights but two recent samples of this editors work ,(classic RMS nonsense); whilst this escapade proves they are one-in-the same. Some one please investigate and bring closure. Djegan 22:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

• MaryLouise@gmail.com (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is still doing bad-faith edits on various articles. Can an admin block please? Demiurge 19:44, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Looking at the non-intervention by administrators on this user one can only conclude that their is severe inaction in wikipedia regarding vandalism. Djegan 19:59, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

You should take sock puppet investigations to WP:SSP! Iolakana| 20:05, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I blocked MaryLouise@gmail.com (talk · contribs) for disruption i.e various scu, paedophile, wanker edits. Suggest listing them at checkuser page. Tim! 20:07, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

and AbdulRahim@gmail.com (talk · contribs) for good measure as blatant sock of MaryLousie@gmail.com Tim! 20:16, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

• User:MaryLouise@gmail.com was already listed at RFCU: Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Rms125a@hotmail.com. Result was "possible". Since then, they made this edit, effectively confirming their real identity as Robert Sieger/Rms125a@hotmail.com. Demiurge 00:18, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Personal Attacks, pt 2

Recently, User:JzG accused me of a personal attack. I thought I'd point out this earlier posting by JzG that I think demonstrates that the hostility goes both ways. I had called JzG closed-minded and trigger happy (which I regret), but is calling me "obsessive" any better? Not that this in any way excuses my actions, but I just wanted to point out that there have been transgressions on both sides of this debate. A Transportation Enthusiast 04:10, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't exactly call JzG's comments a personal attack, but I do agree the comment could have been toned down. joturner 05:21, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I would also call them fifteen days old. Even the dispute in question was archived. I'm not clear why this is being brought up now. I understand wanting to defend your reputation in the Wikisphere, but slinging more mud after the discussion has essentially ended won't help you with that. I'd respectfully suggest it's time to try to put this behind you. JDoorjam Talk 05:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I didn't bring it up before because I didn't see it until today; JzG archived it just 30 minutes later. I only found out about it because of this blog entry by Avidor, which links to the archive page containing the attack (also linked here, with the quote). And, why is reporting this considered "slinging mud"? I just don't understand it: JzG reports an attack here, I get a stern warning. I report an attack, and I'm accused of mudslinging. Why is that? Isn't this where you're supposed to report stuff like this? A Transportation Enthusiast 05:54, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Because the quotation was from over two weeks ago and the discussion here ended three days ago. There's a time factor here. The point of this board is to spot ongoing incidents so that they can be dealt with and the project of writing an encyclopedia can commence. If JzG posted a fifteen-day-old link to you saying you were going to climb the Reichstag while dressed like Spider-Man, I'd probably wonder why he was bringing up an old issue. Hypothetically, if in the future he says not-nice things to you, I'd suggest you ask him about it on his talk page, and if he is still rude to you, then at that point, bringing it here would be more warranted. My apologies for using the term "mudslinging"; it was poorly chosen. Again, my comments are about the timing, and not the content, of your grievance here. JDoorjam Talk 06:30, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

• General question for those on ANI regarding this type of a report. Is WP:PAIN only meant for "active" cases of personal attacking or does this type of a report fall under its auspices as well? Netscott 07:15, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Anon + Persians

User 24.211.192.250 has been systematically changing Persian to something else. I don't know what is right on all of these issues but on Rumi, at least, it does go against what has been in the article without discussion. I almost blocked the user but... I figured I'd place it here. If another admin wants to deal with it, good. Or, I deal with it later if someone adds onto my talk page... but, is a ban in order? and should they all be reverted? gren グレン 04:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

How easy it has to claim that somebody "has been systematically changing Persian to something else". Please check my contribution history. I've edited the articles which the above editor/admin considers as Persian only once. The above post also reflects the obsession of some editors to label or insert Persian into as many articles as possible , , which is quite problematic, especially when one edits articles with such nationalistic views that creates biases. 24.211.192.250 10:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Proven sock of banned editor

Thunderbird15 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has been proven by RFCU to be a sock of the blocked User:Lightbringer (see report on WP:LTA) who is banned by ArbCom. Could we please have Thunderbird15 blocked?

Thank you. WegianWarrior 08:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

• Done. Why can't they be immediately blocked by whoever confirms the connection? - Mgm| 12:12, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
  • According to the various discussions I've seen, the RFCU privileged users have no time to go around taking action, it's up to the requester to get the necessary action taken. Just zis Guy you know? 12:36, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

The important thing is that he gets blocked. Thanks again :) WegianWarrior 12:49, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Deleting libellous revisions

What is the correct procedure for requesting deletion of libellous revisions? There are some unsubstatiated comments in Michael Jackson (Anglican bishop) which led an anon IP to tag the whole article for speedy deletion. That's obviously not necessary here, so I removed the db tag, but I don't quite know how to get the few revisions deleted. Cheers --Pak21 11:50, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

• Well, an admin can delete the lot of it and then only restore the non-libellous edits. Can you provide diffs to said problem edits? - Mgm| 12:09, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Sure: . Cheers --Pak21 12:17, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
    • Done. Just zis Guy you know? 12:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
      • One more that I missed originally: . Apologies for making people do this twice. Cheers --Pak21 14:25, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to alert us. --mboverload@ 06:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Aditya.pidaparthy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Could someone look at this user's talk page and his contribs? He has lots of images uploaded with faulty copyrights along with a whole mess of moves. I can't tell if this is a vandal or just a very confused new user. Could someone take a look? --Woohookitty 14:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I just spent well over an hour undoing the mess this guy caused. He caused 3 double redirects and 2 redirects that didn't need to be redirects. Plus he created a duplicate article and 2 copyvios. Goodness. I warned him on his talk page. Need to watch his edits for awhile. Nothing worse than people doing moves that don't know how to do them properly. Blech. --Woohookitty 16:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Look at the history here: --he's in a revert war with Tawkerbot. · rodii · 16:24, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I've blocked for 24 hours for the revert war. Maybe someone could leave a message on his talk page about his behavior.--Kungfu Adam 16:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Revert war with Tawkerbot? Uh, who's going to win there???? LOL! That's hilarious... that person has to be new and confused... seriously. Netscott 17:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I'd go with Netscott here. I think he's just new. --Woohookitty 03:00, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I ended his block early. He probably should've been warned before the 3RR rule was invoked. I highly doubt he knew what it was. --Woohookitty 04:50, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

eh.. ?

R. S. Shaw (talk · contribs), could someone please fix these pagemoves?--71.247.107.238 15:56, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

What's wrong with them? --InShaneee 16:18, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

They make the page completly un-usable, look at what was done to the WP:RD/s and tell me you wouldn't be horrified if the same thing was done to AN/i--71.247.107.238 16:20, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

• It's all still working for me. Are you talking about old sections being archived? Please be a bit more specific about what you think is wrong. - Mgm| 22:02, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Beingtoofree (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This single purpose vandal account needs to be blocked indefinitely. This account's sole purpose was to repeatedly remove wikilinks and blank images related to one article. Royboycrashfan (talk · contribs) blocked for 24 hours but this needs to be permanent. This user was vandalizing WP:AIV as well. Thanks. Netscott 19:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Looks like he's removings pics and links to Muhammad cartoon controversy... -- Grafikm 19:52, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm about 99% sure that recently permanently blocked user Dangling_pointer (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is the same individual from the pattern of vandalism (WP:AIV, etc.). Netscott 20:00, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Grafikm: That's censoring! Iolakana| 20:07, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Problem with User:RandomCritic

User RandomCritic has posted a request for arbitration with respect to his claims that I have harassed him and revealed personal information about him. He has failed to substantiate these allegations in a convincing manner and I note that his request for arbitration looks as though it will be rejected. I would therefore like to bring the following selection of recent comments made by user RandomCritic to administrator attention on account of their incivility, defamatory nature and other infringments of Misplaced Pages policy. (I am sorry I have to quote all these verbatim as I am not sure how to make short-cut links to them.)

Posted to Talk:Anatta: With reference to another user:

"I have no doubt and no hesitation in saying that you are completely unqualified as a Pali translator". RandomCritic 03:47, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

and

"And you advertise yourself as a Pali scholar? Or any sort of scholar?" RandomCritic 06:30, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

and

"You consistently use bad translations, because you don't know enough Pali to tell a good translation from a bad. ...... You could try learning Pali if you don't want to face continued embarrassment." 06:30, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

and

"I have no doubt and no hesitation in saying that you are completely unqualified as a Pali translator. There is a special word for someone who claims qualifications he utterly lacks, but I believe it would be impolitic of me to use it here". RandomCritic 06:30, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Then, with reference to myself:

"If you do not know Pali, then you had no grounds for endorsing his "translations", and my linguistic explanations will make no sense to you. I can only suggest that you study the language for yourself, in that case .... I appreciate your offer to rewrite the page, however, I have concerns about your ability to present a neutral point of view, as I understand you are not a disinterested party. I don't think there is any reason for you to rush". RandomCritic 21:11, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

and

"Hodge: I cannot and do not estimate any person based on their own claims of their talents or abilities: only by what they themselves exhibit and what I can myself double-check. .... But I ask you, assuming some small dose of knowledge on your part" RandomCritic 10:59, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Additionally in the Talk:Buddhism page, Vapour claims, sometime prior to the 19th June 2006:

"Dr Tony Page, aka TonyMPNS run a website in corraboration with Stephen Hodge".

To which user TonyMPNS replied later that day,

"Stephen Hodge does not run the "Nirvana Sutra" website with me - I do."

And I also replied,

"Of course, I know Dr Page personally, value his friendship and have produced translations for him on a professional, contractual basis, that he has reproduced on his website -- a website in which I have no direct involvement whatsoever." Stephen Hodge 16:46, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Nevertheless, RandomCritic persists in claiming in a posting to user Vapour's UserTalk, with the intention of implying that there is some form of cabal in play, that:

"both Page and Hodge are co-creators of the Parinirvana Sutra site listed in the External Links list. " RandomCritic 05:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I then posted a message to this RandomCritic's UserTalk page, beginning:

You said in a message to User Vapour's talk page, that "both Page and Hodge are co-creators of the Parinirvana Sutra site". I am categorically not a co-creator and I have nothing whatsoever to do with it, beyond the fact that Dr Page uses material he has paid me to translate for him. Would you please retract that statement ?"

I followed, unwisely in retrospect, this with what was intended as a humourous riposte, alluding to a certain user of a children's art website which I never assumed or believed was actually this user RandomCritic, who has indeed also subsequently confirmed is not connected with he/she/it.

However, I received this message on my Usertalk from RandomCritic:

I pity whatever poor person you have me confused with when you start sending her (or him) hatemail. You really don't have it together, Hodge. I recommend a vacation." RandomCritic 12:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

This allegation is repeated by implication is RandomCritic's request for arbitration, with absolutely no corroborative or substantiating evidence:

I am concerned that User:Stephen Hodge's message may lead, or may have already led, to harassment of the person he has incorrectly identified as me. RandomCritic 14:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

The above two sets of remarks are vicious, defamatory and obviously more serious in nature than any supposed actions on my part with respect to RandomCritic, given that my real-life identity is transparent.

I request that RandomCritic be urged to withdraw these statements and apologize.--Stephen Hodge 22:38, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Did you read the section at the top of this page which says Please make your comments concise. Administrators are less likely to read long diatribes. ? User:Zoe| 01:40, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I have been having a dispute lately...

About a week ago or so, I had a debate with User:Wiarthurhu about whether the Eagle Premier was the successor to the AMC Matador. He got angry with me and claimed that I was intentionally removing information, when in fact I was removing his claims because they were unsourced. I told him to show his sources, and the sources he gave didn't say anything about his claims. I then brought the issue up to WikiProject:Automobiles, where the debate was ended in my favor. During the dispute, however, he used two IP addresses to revert my changes and used one of them to attack me, calling me a "menace" and a "nuisance". He also accused me and User:Bravada of vandalism on the AMC Eagle page, when we had no such intent. Recently, he left me some nasty comments on my talk page, which I removed, but he still won't back down on personally attacking me. He also claims that I "damaged" the AMC Matador article after I performed some requested cleanup work from User:SteveBaker.

The same user was also involved in a dispute with User:Mmx1 about the F-14 Tomcat article, in which Wiathurhu exhibted similar behavior. He's also used his own user page and the requests for meditation board to launch personal attacks against Mmx1. Me and Mmx1 have tried reporting him to Wikiquette alerts, but we have not gotten a response yet. Here are the related links to my dispute:

--ApolloBoy 22:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Examples of the user's behavior in my dispute with him in the F-14 matter:

• rewriting a request for mediation (which we both agreed to) from a neutral content dispute resolution into an attack on me and my qualifications

and despite participating (even if in bad faith) in a request of mediation, continuing to edit the page in dispute Special:Contributions/Wiarthurhu.

• repeatedly calling into question my qualifications including insinuated personal attacks on my academic qualifications and intelligence

As far as I know, I have no reason to believe that you have even a bachelors degree, ever taken a course in writing or logic, ever wrote a computer program, or even held a job, let alone an IQ over 100, purchased, borrowed, browsed or even read a single book, magazine, watched any media or even visited an aviation museum exhibit on the F-14.

• using the Misplaced Pages article as a soapbox for content disputes:
• and behaving in a generally antagonistic manner:

""I dare you to revert that, unless you believe you are a more reliable source than Grumman's original test pilot"

• dared editors to revert him
• proclaiming "VICTORY"
• treating mediation like a fight: "bring it on, baby"
• defining a mediation in terms of win/loss for either side

--Mmx1 23:03, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Problem with User:70.81.168.141

This user is continually adding unnecessary information to the lead of the Nelly Furtado article. He/she refuses to follow WP:LEAD and is adding statements such as "it still managed to hit platinum in 2 countries and gold in over 5 other countries, including USA, UK and The Netherlands" to the lead. Detailed sentences about what countries a musician's second album was certified Gold and Platinum definitely do not belong in an article's lead. This article was recently promoted to Good Article status and this user is continually making unconstructive edits. When approached at his/her talk page, they refuse to rationally discuss the issue and instead swear and state that they can and will do whatever they want (in violation of WP:OWN). "I want it like that and i will continously change it! good bye." and "I WILL DO WHAT I WANT ! its a freee site good bye!" . On the Nelly Furtado talk page, he/she states "quit changing the damn article! I want it like that i think its FINE! leave it alone!!!!!" and "DO NOT CHANGE IT GOD DAMMIT!" . The user is also in violation of the 3RR rule, which I must admit I am also in violation of, as I am trying to remove the unconstructive/fancruft-ish edits the user continually makes but refuses to discuss. --Musicpvm 00:25, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

"David Jason Silver" AKA Harvardlaw/69.10.123.4

• 69.10.123.4 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)
• Harvardlaw (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

This user, who is apparently named "David Jason Silver", has decided that Misplaced Pages exists for his self-promotion. For the past month he's been writing articles about himself and his company, and inserting references to himself into many other articles, always inappropriately and sometimes fraudulently. He has been warned about this many times, but has barely acknowledged any warnings or used the talk pages. He has recreated deleted articles, removed Afd tags, engaged in repeated copyvios/plagiarism, and other inappropriate behavior. Each account has been blocked once for brief periods. I propose that the next time he inserts a self-reference, a copyvio, or other previously-warned behaviors, he get a one-week block on both accounts. Any thoughts? -Will Beback 00:25, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

PS: His "next-time" has already occured: . -Will Beback 00:29, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I was just about to give the user a 3RR block for edits to Jessica Simpson, already blocked. -- malo (tlk) (cntrbtns) 00:49, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

24.137.173.67 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) He is also using this IP, same pattern of behavior, same articles. --Nobunaga24 01:02, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

After several more bad edits I blocked the two main accounts. If he uses 24.137.173.67 we can block that too. -Will Beback 01:18, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, this guy's edits are bordering on the bizarre. At one point, in an article now deleted, he had listed the full name of his 16 year old daughter (not something I would do if I had a 16 year old daughter), and his home address. Not to mention the self-glorifying nature of the edits - he refers to himself as a "war hero" (he was a sailor in peace time on a ship off the Balkans - not exactly in the heat of battle, a "land baron" and "business magnate," a "famous amateur wrestler," a "business partner of Donald Trump," and a "future presidential candidate." Thanks to supplying us with his full name and address, I found out he has a weird trademark infringement lawsuit with Motorola, and equally bizarre "blog" and homepage , and has refered to himself as a "war hero" on numerous forums (just one example). I'm starting to wonder what is going on - is this a delusional individual with aspirations of glory but without the, *ahem*, social skills or intellect to achieve it, or is it someone else intentionally smearing David Silver or trying to make him look foolish? --Nobunaga24 04:07, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

"At one point, in an article now deleted, he had listed the full name of his 16 year old daughter (not something I would do if I had a 16 year old daughter), and his home address." Oversight the revision, indefinite block the guy. No quarter for privio. --Avillia 04:21, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

My mistake - the girl's name is still in the revision history of one of the articles Harvardlaw revised (if you need the link, I can supply it). Is there a way to remove that since she is a legal minor, and I would suppose not aware that here full legal name was listed for everyone to see?--Nobunaga24 04:44, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/2006-06-05/Oversight. Go there, find someone currently editing on the list, and drop them a message. --Avillia 05:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Giving the name of the daughter sounds like a hostile act, but, then again, I have certainly known some people as ... desperate? delusional? ... as these edits. (I had years of being called "Fake Christian scum" by Steve Winter.) We really need that out, though. If the person is nutty, he may not realize the effects of the history. If it's an attacker, we should protect the victim. Geogre 13:18, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I haven't seen, or don't recall, the edit which contains the girl's name. However I'm familiar with most of this editors work here on Misplaced Pages, and have looked at his personal blog. The style and focus are consistent, so I that this account really is Silver. I expect that he would have included his daughter's name due to vanity rather than ill-intent. I am more concerned with his energetic self-promotion, which is so unwarranted that it amounts to vandalism and which is sometimes outright fraudulent. I think that we should give him at least another chance, when his blocks expire, but that if the behavior doesn't change he'll eventually have to be blocked indefinitely. -Will Beback 08:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Brian G. Wilson apparently evading block

Due to similar writing styles, similarly hostile/above-the-rules attitudes, timing of edits, overlapping edits on Talk:Kris Weston, and similar edits on various other articles, I am fairly well convinced that B G Wilson and Sky-surfer are sockpuppets of Brian G. Wilson (interesting discussion page there), who was blocked on June 19 for legal threats, personal attacks, and threats to 'destroy Misplaced Pages', and whose dubious vanity article claiming royal kinship was deleted on June 27. I'd just like it to be noted that while his rants have toned down, he is using these other accounts to evade the block. It's not clear to me whether that's a violation of policy, per se.—mjb 01:44, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Eon 8

I don't want to start a wheel war, especially since I'm not really around that much anymore, but am I the only one troubled by Malo's deletion of eon8 after he was the one who started the AfD? This is a site that's been linked to from lots of places, and been discussed all over the internet. The page was written in NPOV and acouple of my friends on myspace even referred to wikipedia's link on it. Thousands of people are curious to what this is. But the more important part is, the AfD was improperly closed. Thoughts? Redwolf24 (talk) 05:26, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

See also Talk:Eon8. Redwolf24 (talk) 05:31, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I thought the same. There was no consensus in the AfD to delete, even discounting new editors' comments. Kimchi.sg 05:38, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, we need a sysop to reinstate this article, and pronto. The situation at eon8 (the eon8 experiment having drawn the attention of the DHS and CIA, specifically) is the first reason I've had to contribute outside of Misplaced Pages userspace in almost a year. Last I checked, defaulting your own VfD's to any decision was a "no-no" here. That there's no consensus on how to handle eon8 goes without saying right now, and at the very least, the eon8 article should resume regular editing while a new VfD is conducted. Shem 05:41, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Shem, I thought you were sysop. Either way, restored. Redwolf24 (talk) 05:43, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Hell naw. I'd only started the Texan collaboration, a few other things, but never bothered putting up with RfA's when they were offered on IRC. Dicked around in too many political articles, I reckon. You can still check my userpage's history for the disappearing act, though. Shem 05:48, 1 July 2006 (UTC) (Oh yeah, some people're real pissy about guys who drink and edit.)

Well, new afd here. I protected it from anons and new editors who messed up the last AfD. This should be closed round July 6th. Redwolf24 (talk) 06:05, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Isn't this what deletion review is for? And did anyone tell Malo he was being discussed here? · rodii · 14:05, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

At the end of the day I've seen way too many improperly handled AfDs lately. Esteffect 02:32, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Salman01 block review

Salman01 (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) has unilaterally engaged in moving many pages with titles from "bint" to "binte" because that is what he calls the proper spelling. Britannica uses "bint" for Fatima and other scholarly sources. For instance google "Salma bint Umays" vs, "Salma binte Umays". 0 hits vs. 137. My point is, even if he is right it's not a settled matter. It was all done in good faith I believed and I did warn him. He deleted my comments and then posted a response claiming he was right. He subsequently removed all of the pages that I had taken the effort to revert. I blocked him for 24 hours and I want this block reviewed. I don't really think of myself as involved since I don't care if it's bint or binte since I don't know which is proper but unilaterally moving so many pages without discussing which is proper and then ignoring requests for him to seek consensus strikes me as disruption. (If my block was unjustified please say so.)

On anotehr note the user pastes large chunks of texts from other sites and his response to me says it's okay because other sites paste chunks of Misplaced Pages. I am not sure if he is saying that Misplaced Pages was the original source for the other articles online or what... but, in any case they aren't neutral and add nothing. He has also uploaded images with {{book cover}} that clearly aren't book covers. I just want to know how admins think I should procede with this... block for longer if he continues? undo the block now? revert all of the bint -> binte? gren グレン 06:49, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

It seems fine to me. As for other sites copying content that he wrote, that is unlikely if it was discovered quickly. If I understand correctly and assuming the potential copyvio was found throught Google, Misplaced Pages's database dump has to be updated to include the edit, then the site has to update their copy of Misplaced Pages and then they have to wait for Google to come around and index their site again. Depending how frequently we update our database (it has not been updated since mid-May) and when Google last indexed their site (and whether it is one of the sites they index frequently or not), it might take several days or up to several months for this to happen. -- Kjkolb 11:22, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I support the block. Copying large blocks of text from other web sites isn't acceptable; if he's had that explained to him and continues to do it, yeah, he should be blocked for it. Similarly, if he's using the wrong tags on uploaded images, especially clearly copyrighted ones, he needs to have the policy explained and potentially be blocked. I would revert all the bint/binte changes and encourage him to start a discussion on a relevant page or relevant pages to try to build clear consensus for the moves. JDoorjam Talk 16:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

He doesn't seem to have responded at all to my requests that he not do what he is doing and again erased my comments from his talk page (which, isn't exactly a good sign that he will listen). If he makes the changes again without discussion I am going to give him a week block. gren グレン 19:41, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Ackoz blocked

I have blocked User:Ackoz for 3 days for personal attacks and offensive behaviour (mocking users' IQs) on Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for adminship/Trampikey, and for disruptive behaviour in starting an RfC on a completely unrelated administrator whose only involvement was to place warnings for the above behaviour on his/her user page (which this user promptly removed). I have advised this user of ways he can seek to have this block overturned, and if another administrator feels that this block should be overturned, I will respect that. - Mark 09:44, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

He needed to be in the time out corner, and 3 days is probably good. I endorse the block, although I do think this was a peevish person stamping his foot and might have been neutralized by ignoring. A short block is at least as valid an approach though. (I hate it when people try to be clever and just miss. The belly flop they make is much more noticeable than someone just jumping feet first into the pool.) Geogre 13:13, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Removing Vandalism warning?

Is it possible to remove a vandalism warning from my account - I'll be honest it irks me to know that people with vandal proof will see that I have a warning for what I consider 1)acting in good faith and 2) in line with Misplaced Pages guidelines.

I removed a Vandalproof logo from http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Abdelkweli . This was after it came to my attention that his page contained mainly fictional awards and seemed to be copied wholesale from another user. I left a message on his userpage asking if he required assistance setting up his userpage and also suggesting that he removed both the Vandalproof logo and one that said he had 2,500 edits (he had about 100 mostly to his own userpage). After no response I then removed the vandalproof logo with a clear edit reason to explain why. In return he placed a vandalism warning on my userpage. As I mentioned I feel I acted both in good faith and inline with Misplaced Pages guidance. --Charlesknight 09:52, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The answer is "of course," at least from my point of view. If you had been accused of an article vandalism, the matter would need to rest for longer. Since it's a questionable author's questionable page that you changed, it seems kosher to me to remove the warning. New and bad users like to use the word "vandal," and this one used the template. No difference. (At the same time, I did see, on your talk page, some (inadvertent, I hope?) overly tight vandal locks on some pages. I assume that you're living and learning and not intentionally locking down pages. (Syd could have played both, of course.) Geogre 13:08, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes - in getting the hang of vandalproof I have been a bit on the tight side - in that incident, I want straight to the user's page and explained that I HAD been overly tight and that he should re-write the text as he felt fit (I also left a welcome and suggested that he got a user-id because it would make future conversation easier). --Charlesknight 13:38, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Zer0faults

Can somebody look into Zer0faults (talk · contribs) actions, he is blindly reverting,13:54, July 1, 2006 13:25, July 1, 2006 13:08, July 1, 2006 12:52, June 30, 2006 refuses to discuss or read the articles that supports the edit he objects to (unitary executive, signing statement, unlawful combatant, extraordinary rendition) and he also makes incorrect edit summaries: claiming the rv is because there is no evidence but in fact he refuses to read the evidence. He removes comment on his odd behaviour from his talk page with rather uncivil edit summary. Nomen Nescio 12:13, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Is there a reason you didnt add this comment in your list, the first comment you made on my page "The fact you fail to read them but still claim UET is not being used proves you are only being a dick." --zero faults 14:26, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

This user has been asked to provide some proof of his claim that, The Bush administration uses Unitary Executive Theory to justify Black Sites, Extraordinary Rendition etc. He refuses to do this. User:WGee has asked that all additions be fully sourced, I have begun compiling sources for the existing content and have asked Nescio to provide sources for his additions, he refuses and puts the following on my talk page --zero faults 13:13, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

AGF violation "All you need is in the articles and references, why do you refuse to read it if not out of POV pushing." After asking this user to provide a source. I do not see why they feel everyone should fetch sources for the content they add. Furthermore the Unitary Executive Theory is not appropriate for the template much like Guantanamo Bay. The templates for Cold War and WW2 do not list places and law theories, they list events. --zero faults 13:16, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

You can further see the mess they have created on the talk page. First they challenged the foundation of everything in the template. When given reasons, they in a violation of WP:POINT broadly attempted to rework the entire page, changing events to actions so they can list everything they feel belongs in the template without discussing with anyone. I started a poll to see if anyone supported this, only he voted in support, myself and another user opposed. He has since been attempting to put it into the template anyway. The template listed only events and leaders. He feels every action taken, every law that is similar, every place etc should be included. --zero faults 13:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Do not remove my comments from this page. Admins decide what is not appropriate. You want to bring it here, then they should look at everything you did on the page, the whole issue you created, supporting the deletion, then in that failing attempting to bloat it and start conflicts. Direct violation of WP:POINT. --zero faults 13:28, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

You have removed my comments twice now from an official Misplaced Pages page, please cease your censorship actions. . And I am being accused of removing comments? --zero faults 13:36, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Moved comment to relevant talk page, this is not the place. Nomen Nescio

How is referring to the articles and their references not providing evidence? Clearly what this user wants is that I go to these articles copyedit the txt and refernces and place it on the talk page. However, he is old and wise enough to do that himself. His elaborate writings prove he is capable of reading himself and does not need me to copyedit the relevant text. Nomen Nescio 13:22, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I ask that the enthousiastic and prolific writer keeps his requisaitor limited to the relevant talk page. Nomen Nescio 13:35, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

This is not an incident requiring administrator intervention. This is an ongoing content dispute and personal conflict requiring mediation, patience, and hot tea. In any case, the two of you simply yelling at each other does not need admin attention. JDoorjam Talk 16:41, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Someone should write a sitcom about you two (Nescio and Zer0faults). You remind me of Felix and Oscar, though I'm not saying which is which. KWH 17:28, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I would prefer to be Oscar. Sorry Nescio seems like you are Felix. --zero faults 18:27, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Kven revisited

I thought the Kven editor had been blocked indefinitely, but apparently he has not and is lately editing as WhatHaveWeHere (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Hjalmar Berg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) (new additions to the several dozen of usernames he has used before). If the phrase "exhausting the community's patience" is supposed to have any meaning, I see no reason not to ban this user or at least block him indefinitely. Tupsharru 15:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Justforasecond

Could someone take a look at Justforasecond (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), 130.94.134.166 (talk · contribs), and 84.178.238.68 (talk · contribs)? JFAS was blocked for 3RR yesterday, and immediately, these two ips are reverting to JFAS's preferred versions on two different articles. I'm strongly biased so cannot give a proper analysis. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:49, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

User:InShaneee blocks against User:Fadix

While I know that another cases involving InShaneee has been brought here recently , I want some Admins to take a look at this one, the Armenian Genocide article talk page(and it is only a matter of time that the article will) is back to its spammed state after my announce of departure, which forced me to return. User:Neurobio is already calling to an 'invasion' of the genocide page using my departure. First by warning a user who is under probation, a probation which includes that article. , then contacting User:Lutherian asking the removal of a sourced information.

I request my talk page materials be undeleted and Administrators look over the rational behind InShaneee warnings for a block and finally the two blocks imposed against me by the same administrator.

The final warning for my first block was because for this edit , and then I was first blocked for 24 hours because of my answer of that warning by this .

For the second block (a block for 3 days), I recieved the warning after another user, Grandmaster, with who I was having a heated debate reported me because he was called POV pusher, so InShaneee warned me for a block which infuriated me and promped my answer. , as a result, InShaneee blocked me for 3 days. . Another administrator has found the rational behind the block shaky (I was not blocked for 36 hours but 3 days). InShaneee answered that the rational was that I made threats of more. . Which is not true as I have clarified in my update note , a note which was later deleted by InShaneee under the pretext that IRC materials should only be posted after an explicit permission by those involved even though he deleted just more than the quotes from the IRC. He also removed his name from my Farewell message , as well as warning again with a language which would have probably prompted a warning by himself had anyone used similar tone. .

Also, just a quick search in both Nagorno Karabakh and Nakhichevan article (the articles in which I and Grandmaster interacted most) reveals that Grandmaster who reported me because of accusation of POV pushing, has in various occasion leveled similar accusations of POV pushing himself. , , , , , , , , , which I have never reported, since it is understandble that in some heated discussions few abrasive words are used and that any users are free to edit them rather than reporting even though as much to be blamed because the other happens to be someone with who you disagree. And also in an answer to InShaneee first blocking I reported similar edits made by Grandmaster. which InShaneee ignored.

Also, while InShaneee has edited a content of my userpage under the pretext that to post such materials it takes consent, I wonder under which Misplaced Pages policies this goes. Because I have specifically maintained who made what statment, while InShaneee may have ground for his consent request, so does, I in my opinion, have the right clarifying what InShaneee had been saying about me in my back, which is simply untrue. Every members should be permitted to defend themselves against what they percieve as false charges, more importantly charges leveled on media's not directly available to the concerned, and if InShaneee had found my clarification not proper to be posted on a members talk page, InShaneee was a concerned party and should have in my opinion reported such behavior to another Administrator rather than deleting the entire sentence. Fad (ix) 18:05, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

First of all, your block expired a week ago. Secondly, you already tried to bring this up on the mailing list as well as requesting an unblock, to which no one responded. Thirdly, what I removed consisted of an IRC chatlog and a personal attack. --InShaneee 18:09, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I have the right to report an incident, and there are no policies retricting me on the basis that it is an incident dating about a Week ago, you should stick to policies. As for the mailing list, as far as I am aware of, no administrator agreed to the block, the only who even pied attention to the cases disagreed with you. Also, going around the IRC and making up reasons for the Block isen't also the proper conduct of an Administrator. Neither deleting ones talk page content, where the member is answering to false charges. And no, what you removed was not only chat log, to the contrary, most were not. You mostly deleted things which I myself wrote answering to the charges which you leveled against me justifying the block, charges which both of us knew to be untrue. Also, the thing you call personal attack is an opinion posted in my talk page, it is neither a heatlist, neither anything of that sort. I severly question your ability to administer, and say it again, and this was about what I have said there. It is not like I am posting that in an articles namespace, neither in a talk page, but rather an answer. On the other hand, you have restricted me to edit for 72 hours, something which you should apologise for. Fad (ix) 18:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

This page is for reporting incidents which require immediate administrator intervention, which this does not. --InShaneee 18:25, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

So according to you, reporting an Administrator abuses does not require immediate administrator intervention but calling someone POV pusher does?

Unless the administrator is 'abusing their powers' at the moment, no. Otherwise, it's something for mediation or RfC. --InShaneee 18:32, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually you are. You just have given another warning where there was no warning content. Fad (ix) 18:35, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

That was a request, not a warning. And I'd consider comparing someone to a Neo-Nazi something that requires action. --InShaneee 18:40, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any comparaison of a particular user with neo-nazi. TAT has texts specifically saying that Armenians are the lowest form of life. What do you expect an Armenian to answer. Eupator has answered without attacking any members, and you posted that message in his talk page. Stop distributing such warnings. Fad (ix) 18:45, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Once again, warning someone not to call someone else a Neo-Nazi is more than justified, and I most certainly will continue warning, or blocking if neccisary, people who do so. You've been here repeatedly, the mailing list, your talk page, other people's talk page, and yet there is no wave of admins telling me that what I have been doing is wrong. If people don't like getting warned for being incivil, the answer is pretty simple: don't do it. Then, I swear to you, you won't hear a peep out of me. --InShaneee 23:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

A little note to Fadix from the top of this page, Please make your comments concise. Administrators are less likely to read long diatribes.. You might want to adjust your commentary accordingly. Netscott 18:37, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I just bolded what is most important. Fad (ix) 18:42, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The original block looks like it was warranted to me; from what I can see, InShaneee never edited your user page so I'm not clear what you're talking about (unless you're referring to your talk page); and the most recent "abuse" you've reported appears to be InShaneee telling you not to violate Godwin's Law because it's rude, which seems sensible to me. This thread doesn't seem to indicate there's an incident requiring administrator intervention. JDoorjam Talk 18:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I hope you haven't looked at the cases the same way as you have looked at what I was talking about (neo-nazi). InShaneee 'warning' about neo-nazi was to Eupator and not to me. As for your opinion concerning the original block, it is much clear that blocks on personal attacks are justified in clear cases of personal attack, not just some accusation of POV edits or telling someone that he was not reading what you were writting. InShanee clearly doesn't make the distinction between empty slanders and some abrasive words in a heated discussion.Also, you haven't said anything about the second block. Fad (ix) 18:55, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Fadix that the blocks that was imposed on him by InShaneee might have been a bit harsh, eventhough he should indeed mind what he is saying, even when things get "hot" in discussions regarding controversial topics. It's very important always to be as polite as possible. I also agree that it's not nice that inaccurate reasons for blocking Fadix was mentioned on IRC, and I understand that Fadix is pretty upset about this. However, nothing good or constructive will come out of pursuing these issue anymore. As mentioned the block ended more than a week ago, and the best thing I believe would be for Fadix if he would just forget about the whole thing, and get back working on the articles where I and many other editors know that he makes a lot of much needed, very important and valuable contributions. Another thing is that I also believe it would help the situation if InShaneee would let other admins deal with any future issues involving Fadix. -- Karl Meier 20:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Dr Mark Mayall

I would like to ask that this article's deletion is carefully reviewed by parties independent of those who nominated and deleted it or voted for its deletion. 213.122.71.45 19:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

The article was properly deleted via Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Mark Mayall. If our anonymous interlocutor wishes it undeleted he should follow the undeletion request process. Homey 19:13, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Sam Swerling

I would like to ask that this article's deletion is carefully reviewed by parties independent of those who nominated and deleted it or voted for its deletion. 213.122.71.45 19:11, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Deleted through proper process. See WP:DRV if you wish to contest it. --InShaneee 19:14, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Rms125a back again

Indefinitely blocked user Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is back as Stapletonian (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), and reverting the edits of his "enemies"/vandalizing pages . See for a long list of the wikistalking edits carried out by another of his anonymous IP addresses earlier today. Can an admin block urgently? Demiurge 22:54, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Indef-blocked. Will (message me!) 08:01, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

• He is at it again as GlasgowMurphy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - could an admin investigate. He is reverting pages in order to intimidate editors also the usual biggoted remarks. Djegan 16:48, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Rms 25a back again(again)

Seems this guy is up to his old tricks again. This time without hair.John Pairseenthbaeu 23:14, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Anybody that makes edits like these does not deserve a second chance after been banned indefinitely. Definitely rms - one of his old favs. Djegan 23:39, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

And I'm not sure what to use on him either. Permblock, warnings, a stern email, a plea to other administrators, or just ignore himJohn Pairseenthbaeu 00:19, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

RMS has actually been indefinitely banned. Ultimately if a user wants to "reform" themselves and return under an anonoymous account and contribute positively thats their business but when they return and go back to their old vandalism ways and harrassing users by undoing their recent edits (often to previously vandalised versions) then additional bans are required. Their should be no surrender to vandalism, even if its just one user. Else we all ought to leave the project and do something better with our time. Misplaced Pages gets enough flak in the media, new ideas are needed to fight vandalism. Open editing equals open war. Djegan 14:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

AlexPU

I have no experience interacting with AlexPU (talk · contribs), other than running into him today following the lifting of his one-month ban. He has been making disruptive comments in his edit summaries on Russia and personal attacks in a TfD discussion. An admin should at least give him a warning, reminding him of the minimum norms of civility on this site. 172 | Talk 23:26, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, AlexPU insulting everybody... Yes, he just got back from a block (3/4 of it actually, since Alex Bakharev unblocked him if AlexPU would edit articles and not engage in personal attacks - I'll let the diffs speak themselves to judge if it's the case)

Here is a sample of his vocabulary since he came back:

• Telling a user to "get lost of his talk page"
• Here, he suggests to de-sysop all admins voting keep on a TFD vote :
• Here, he's attacking Russian wikipedians
• Talking about "bullshit blanking" :

And it's just a sample... -- Grafikm 23:45, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Elliskev

this guy seems to have a history of uncivility, and also answered quite uncivily on my talk page about a question in the abortion article, calling me a "racist" and a "moron" about a query that i very honestly, politely, and curiously presented. Joeyramoney 00:13, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't even play around with these kinds of guys. You don't want to get sucked into thier games.Cowboy John Adamson. GGfather:Abraham Lincoln 00:22, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

A history of incivility is cause for immediate dismissal from Misplaced Pages's archives.Philly CheeseDude 00:27, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly on the matter of incivility. I have a family with two boys6 mos. and 2 years, and you're damn right I teach them civility!Charlie Daddy 00:31, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

To user:JoeyRamoney you are not a racist and a moron. All of us at Misplaced Pages are doing our part, yourself included. For this, I applaud you.Mr. Nice Guy Rides Again 00:35, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

The four above users plus John Pairseenthbaeu above are confirmed socks via a checkuser User:Rebecca done in IRC and they are all blocked. Thanks Jaranda 00:59, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh bother. Thanks for noting that here, I have wasted some small effort. KillerChihuahua 14:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Getting rid of Germany?

Don't you think this block is a bit long: "14:32, 30 June 2006 InShaneee blocked "84.190.0.0/17 (contribs)" with an expiry time of 1 week (vandalism through possible open IP)". It actually blocks T-Online, by wide margin the most popular internet provider in Germany, and seems to block larger parts of Germany. I already know of several trusted German wikipedians who are not able to edit on en: anymore. -- southgeist 00:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

The block has been lifted. However, such actions really need to be addressed. At least, if there are problems with quickly-changing IPs, the IP range should be investigated to see who it is allocated to and the block, if necessary, should be limited to a shorter timeframe than a week. In this case, presumably a few hours would even have been sufficient. sebmol 00:48, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I would recommend lifting the block. Because you know what can happen when Germans get mad. And how bout lifting that edit summary "Getting rid of Germany". It sounds like some sort of reverse racist board.Hans 001 00:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

WP:EQ? Or has that become obsolete? sebmol 01:04, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

"you know what can happen when Germans get mad."

They get angry?Homey 01:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

they produce angry philosophical milestones? dab (ᛏ) 01:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I lifted this earlier and informed InShaneee of the lift. I guess he'll tidy up and block the specific IPs that he wanted to block again. Rob Church has said that this shouldn't be technically possible, and I believe is looking into preventing Mediawiki from allowing such blocks in future. Moral of the story, I guess, is that you need to understand the implications of blocks before doing them, especially when involving ranges. Esteffect 02:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

We really need to fix blocking so that registered users aren't normally blocked by IP blocks. This is an ongoing headache. --John Nagle 06:31, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, except that that has its own headache (and I say this as an "AOL user," even though I'm not on AOL). If we do that, our ability to stop vandals who merely register a new account name every few minutes will be shot to hell. <shrug> Yet another case where the Push-me-pull-you turns out to be in charge of the world. Geogre 11:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

obviously, it should be impossible to create new accounts from the blocked range. Instead, some sort of "request for account creation" should pop up. I know this is all impeding to the wiki principle, but hey, we have 1.2 million articles to protect here. We'll need more and more finely honed blocking tools over time, such as the ability to block certain IP ranges from certain articles only ("surgical protection") dab (ᛏ) 14:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Crap alive, my apologies to everyone that had to clean this up. I discussed this a bit in the admin IRC channel before hand, but I guest the real moral is that I should do some serious IP backtracking before rangeblocking. Again, this was entirely my mistake, and it won't happen again. --InShaneee 18:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Sunholm and scales

I am requesting the assistance of some other admin to help resolve a dispute with Sunholm (talk · contribs). Recently, the stop hand image on {{POV}} and related templates was changed to an unbalanced scales image. On the talk page, 11 users and one anon have expressed support for this change. Prior to this afternoon, 2 users had expressed opposition. Despite this Sunholm had reverted to the stop hand 3 times over 2 days. I told Sunholm that concensus existed at the talk page for changing the image and told him to quit edit warring. At which point he added a message to the talk page saying "Stop hand.svg is far better. It's a warning template, after all" and reverted again.

At this point, I blocked him for 3 hours for edit warring and POINT. (Keep in mind that the back and forth over the image was occuring across multiple POV oriented templates). Following the block expiry he immediately reverted again, with no further comment (this time also breaching 3RR).

This editor, previously known as Sunfazer (talk · contribs), seems to have a history of fighting over templates (see contribs in Template space). In addition, he is presently engaged in edit wars over {{peerreview}} and {{Misplaced Pages is Communism}} that are unrelated to the stop hand issue.

However, I feel my neutrality is compromised by having expressed opinions favoring the scales image. Arguably, I should not have even issued the block that I did, though I feel Sunholm's behavior is out-of-bounds and is exacerbated by his unresponsiveness. I apologize for not seeking a neutral party sooner, and would appreciate it if someone else would take a look at this issue. Dragons flight 01:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I have issued a 24-hour 3RR block on Sunholm; along with it I'll note that while you haven't exceeded 3RR that I can see, DF, you're coming closer in a sterile edit war like that than I'd like to see. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 01:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree, which is one reason why I would like to distance myself from this issue. Dragons flight 02:01, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, User:Jtdirl blocked Sunholm for 48 hours on this issue. -- ADNghiem501 05:30, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Plagerism

Hello,I hope I am doing this correctly. I need help with a problem Jesster79 began building an episode list for In the Heat of the Night recently.I thought it was great until I recognized the material as being from tv.com (formerly TVTome). If it was a little I wouldn't complain, but it's a lot. This is the evidence, it is quite lengthy.Please pardon the sloppiness as I was pressed for time while doing it.

Our conversation: http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Jesster79

Note that while he says he is using his own words he has really just changed,re-arranged or added words to the material at tv.com(formerly tvtome)which has existed since 2000-1

This is a cut and paste comparing Jesster79's work (summaries and trivia) with that of tv.com.

This can be verified through the links for the episode list at both sites.

TV.COM Episode List - http://www.tv.com/in-the-heat-of-the-night/show/656/episode_listings.html

Wiki Episode List: http://en.wikipedia.org/In_the_Heat_of_the_Night_episodes

Also please see Jesster's Contributions: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Contributions&target=Jesster79

This really tells the story.Look how quickly the work was done.He just cut, pasted and slightly altered.

Note:At tv.com the notes and trivia appear below the summary.California12 03:07, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

The evidence can be found on my user page as it was apparently to longCalifornia12 03:09, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I can't see anything wrong with In the Heat of the Night episodes - theres not really a lot that can differ in a list of episodes, but the date formats in that article are different to the ones on tv.com. As for the episode articles theirselves, they don't look copied to me (although some might be based on the tv.com descriptions - it should probably be cited as a reference) but I'm no experienced copyvio spotter. --james _{// bornhj (talk)} 05:22, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I wrote the synopsis at tv.com and in some cases he has barely changed anything.The date format is not what I'm talking about.Synopsis on episode guides are usually vary greatly.The story is the same but the wording is different.Please look at the comparison here titled Evidence http://en.wikipedia.org/User:California12California12 05:34, 2 July 2006

(UTC)

This matter has been resolved, the person has removed the material in question.California12 01:34, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

ForestH2

Could admin investigate ForestH2 and GrasslandT? The reason is these two ID edits samething in article Pansy Parkinson, and Gregory Goyle, also some of edits are disruptive edits. and Be aware on GrasslandT, because this ID also edits in disruptive way. OK, Let's me explain about these problems. First I don't know User:ForestH2 is. He still made personal attack. See this is an evidence. ForestH2, ForestH2 (talk · contribs · count). But He first apologized me for sending me message so much and made personal attack. when I put some questions on article's discussion's page, He also asks me everything that I did on Misplaced Pages. I personally don't care of him. He just bothers me. Could any admin help me on that? First I discussed this problem with User:bunchofgrapes. *~Daniel~* 03:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

...Who whistles a merry tune and runs to get fitted for a straightjacket whenever topics involving Daniel5127 or ForestH2 come up. I've yet to get a cogent response from either of them on any topic. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 04:03, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

See User talk:Bunchofgrapes#ForestH2 -- Samir धर्म 06:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

While I'm still here, I'd like to point out User_talk:NSLE#Subpage, about this revert I made for a redlinked RFCU. NSLE 14:38, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Uh, I don't have time to reply soon but I will leave a quick message since I'm on a trip. The edits on Gregory Goyle are not disruptive. There taken from what J.K Rowling says in the 6th Harry Potter book. I know GrasslandT- he and me both think were making correct edits here and I don't know the last time I made an attack on Daniel. I am going to tell him about Gregory Goyle edits. Have any of you read the book? Check one of the last chapters and see what I keep reverting? And how does GrasslandT edit in a disruptive way? All he does is edit Gregory Goyle in the correct way. I've had enough of this. This is a very stupid conversation to be having. My edits are correct, proof is in the book. And I haven't bothered Daniel since I talked with Bunchofgrapes. I've talked with Daniel about this and I'm going to talk with him more. Hopefully some one's read the Half-Blood Prince so they can see that I'm the right one and that this is a stupid conversation to be having. I'm going to leave a note on Daniel's page and Bunchofgrapes page. Sorry if I don't reply fast- I'm away on busniess. ForestH2 | + | √+ | √ | √- | - 18:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Administrator Abuse

I feel like I was mistreated and humiliated by administrator (])

He warned me not to use aggressive and uncivil language but he himself did it before blocking me. Such as:

` :::I will warn you one last time to keep your tone civil and not to make accusations. Also, you are not 'allowed' anything. If I see evidence that you are doing ANY blind reverts to circumvent consensus, no matter what the number, you will be blocked for purposeful disruption. --InShaneee 20:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC) `

Please refer to my talk page to see it.

This message was posted after I , as a proud wikipedian as any of you , stated that according to Wiki Rules I can revert an article 3 times a day. And then he quoted : Also, you are not "allowed" anything.

Then for a discussion in the talk page I was blocked. It can be read from the link : this

I accept that my language is harsh and heated. However, if any of you regard to the discussed page, you can clearly reach more uncivil language ( even and especially in the Archives regarding user Fadix. ) so I feel that I was mistreated in this case.

Also, I did not clearly attack anyone, while I was blocked for personal attacks, what I did was to defend my point in a case which another user clearly (to my opinion) missed a point. If all of my posts are read, you will see that I am more or less a legal user. I may have crossed the line for a couple of times but this does not require a block or humiliation.

Furthermore, I admit that I am a new user, but if you refer again to my talk page, you can see the post by the same admin :

"please do not add commentary and your personal analysis of an article into Misplaced Pages articles. Doing so violates Misplaced Pages's neutral point of view policy and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you. --InShaneee 17:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)"

This is the first warning I get. I know how to edit articles. I know how to use Wiki at that level. But he tries to humiliate me by referring to "sandbox". Also it is interesting to note that eventhough this was supposed to be my first warning, it is ferocious. It is angry, and the warning is not a friendly one.

Also , I thought before being blocked by this admin. I was allowed to be bold in editing, I learned that as a major principle of wikipeida. But now I see that principles work under the tyranny of some admins. Please do not ban me for this too. I am afraid now, I feel suppressed.

I checked the talk page of this admin to see that he is very infamous for his repeated blocking of others too.

If becoming an admin justifies this kind of power in Misplaced Pages, I do not consider Wiki as a communal organization, which favors its citizens rights.

I hope you wont tell me that I am not allowed anything too, like a prisoner guard.

You guys are not that kind of people right ?

sincerely

ps : In case it gets archived I would like to post the te last two messages this admin has got :

Cculber007

Hi InShaneee!

I spoke with Cculber007 via email and he pledged not to make any threats or personal attacks on the wiki anymore if he is unblocked. I was thus thinking it would be a good idea to give him a second chance; he may very well one day become a valuable contributor. What do you think? -- Where 22:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

84.190.0.0/17

Hey. You blocked this last night. Now I nominated you for adminship so I know you're a good user, but please read up on blocking-related stuff. Your block was in good faith, but you actually blocked half of Germany. ;) I've undone it, so you may want to look at the IPs you wanted to block with it. :p Esteffect 00:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

That said, I think you inadvertently discovered a Mediawiki vulnerability. Some developers are saying your block shouldn't have even been possible due to the effects it can have. Esteffect 00:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

END OF MESSAGES --Sokrateskerem 05:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC(

Note that exactly who said what in the above is rather confusing. The history and the signatures don't quite seem to line up. Some edits are by the anon 128.211.201.37 (talk · contribs) --John Nagle 06:42, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Summary: If other people are rude, I am allowed to be rude too. I have enforceable rights, including the right to three reverts a day. I think perfectly reasonable warnings are "ferocious" and "angry".

The warnings were for leaping straight into the Armenian Genocide article and claiming that it's a hoax, and the 24 hour block was for personal attacks - this sort of thing, I assume. Both seem reasonable to me. Sensitive little flowers shouldn't get mixed up with holocaust denial, or they will get their feelings hurt. --ajn (talk) 07:00, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

hah, I think it is self-evident that "do not bite the newbies" does not extend to socks, trolls and angry holocaust-deniers :) dab (ᛏ) 14:03, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Should be blocked for its own good to prevent further instances of abuse directed against its "harmless" holocaust denial. Just zis Guy you know? 15:07, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Anyone else notice that these were posted from an IP while he was blocked? --InShaneee 18:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

The two messages up there by me are from InShaneee's talk page, and I'm not involved in this dispute. :/ Esteffect 14:59, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I think personally that the guy is a sock, but for the sake of assuming good faith, I will pretend he is not. And here, my opinion has nothing to do with me having something against InShaneee. Supposing that Sokrateskerem is a new user, he should have known for how long he was blocked(InShaneee should have told him), new users generally don't know how to check their block log to know for how long they have been blocked, InShaneee told him he was blocked, but not much more information as to when he could edit back again(unless I have missed something). We don't need 'administration' in the Armenian genocide page, for warning members for personal attacks, this in my opinion is unimportant, any users can edit a personal attack. Francis and other users were doing a great job editing them in the past. I will not go as far as to say that InShaneee decision to moderate the genocide page was to limit the damages after he realised what would happen if I am not there. For what we need administrator there, is to track possible socks (and they abound) and requesting checkusers, we need administrator to delete irrelevencies which have nothing to do with the article. We need administration to remind people what is NPOV. Those things directly affect the quality of the article. I don't think anyone was really offended by Sokrateskerem, of course before he posted the remark about InShaneee IQ, but this could have been prevented, by just removing personal attacks from the articles talk page. Fad (ix) 17:07, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree with you. However, I wasn't initially warning him as an administrator, obviously, since as you stated, this is not an action strictly relegated to administrators. Since I'd seen a lot of troublesome editing coming from there in the past, I simply wanted to step in and see if I could help stem the tide. It was only when he continued past being warned that I took action as an admin. --InShaneee 18:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Serdar Argic? Is that you?Homey 18:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I doubt it, he doesn't have the same style. But Serdar did indeed register an account here on Misplaced Pages to remove the connection between his true name and his nom de plume. He most certainly is still contributing under another pseudonym or an open proxy. For Sokrateskerem, it is hard to tell if he is someone else, I feal it, but since I don't have evidences, I will have to 'pretend' assuming good faith. Fad (ix) 19:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO THREE REVERTS PER ARTICLE PER DAY. 3RR is a safeguard, not a right. Werdna (talk) 02:07, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

User:BenH

BenH (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) has a history of making edits to TV station articles which are rejected as inaccurate or unsourced by other editors on those articles. He has not replied to numerous messages on his Talk page, or replied to Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/BenH. I left a warning that if he continued to edit against consensus and not engage in Talk I would block him for disruption. He continued, so I have blocked him indefinitely until such time as he starts engaging in Talk. Any admin should feel free to unblock him as soon as he shows some signs of responding to comments and criticisms. Just zis Guy you know? 11:49, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for doing this. --CFIF (talk to me) 00:51, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Is someone sabotaging my account?

Either the watchlist function is malfunctioning or someone has been hacking into my account. There are a number of entries on my list which I did not put there. Most of them are gibberish: 111111111112222222222222, 545hj6jh5u67hu54h, 56666666666666jjjjjjjjjjjjjj, Gggggggggggnnnnnnnnnnnnnn55555555555, Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, Jhjfgh, Jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjfuuuuurncvjdkkkkkkkkkkkkkks, Kikytmr, Yhjrnr584nbth5845jkfj48, and Yyyyyyyyyyyyy555555555. Another, Uuuuuuuuusssssssssssssseeeeeeeeerrrrrr, shows demonstrable intelligence. More suspicious is the fact that User:Beebeep and User:Unforgiving, who do not even exist, have shown up on my list, as well as User:Thames, who was created only today (July 2, 2006). If I appear to flip out or vandalize a bunch of articles, someone has simply taken over my account. Otherwise, they have only been able to access my watchlist functioning. I do not know who to ask about assistance in this matter. If you do, please inform me. --TJive 15:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Change your password (I think you can do that) Mo-Al 16:05, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Tony Sidaway explained to me that most of these are probably due to vandal moves, but this does not explain the user pages to my satisfaction, particularly Thames, who was created a couple of hours ago. Can someone look into those? --TJive 16:05, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think a password change is needed at this point. It would appear to be some exploit of the watchlist rather than a general takeover, if it can't be explained otherwise. --TJive 16:07, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I would change it anyway, just to be safe (can't be too careful). Mo-Al 16:10, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

User pages are like any other page, and can be moved to and added to your watchlist the same way. Also, if a User talk: page is moved, the associated User: page gets added to your watchlist. NoSeptember 16:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, why aren't there records of any of these moves, if that's what they were? Shouldn't there be a function to delete auto-watchlist additions if the pages themselves are deleted for vandalism? --TJive 16:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

There is a record, but you can't see the deleted edits if you are not an admin. If you could see the deleted edit, it would tell you which page was moved there, and you could find the move listed in the history of that source article. NoSeptember 16:20, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Beebeep is a deleted redirect to User talk:Bishonen (a leftover from some pagemove vandalism), hence why that weird userpage name is in your watchlist. I haven't investigated the rest of them but I think they can all be explained in exactly the same way. I wouldn't be worried at all. --Cyde↔Weys 16:22, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Is it possible for you to see what move was relevant to User:Thames? It seems that he used to be a contributor, as his signature exists on a number of pages, but his contributions and logs are gone, as if merged to another user. The fact that this user was (re)created a matter of a couple hours ago is what mainly set my alarm bells off. --TJive 16:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

This might be helpful: --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 16:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I was looking at this. But I'm still not seeing anything that looks familiar, so I don't know why he was there. I did have Bishonen on my watchlist though. Does Thames go by another name now, where he has his talk and contributions located? --TJive 16:53, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

You may have chatted with Thames many many months ago, hence it is on your watchlist. None of us remember everyone we have ever interacted with. If a user wants their page deleted, we shouldn't go about revealing all the details about who they are and so forth unless they want us to do so. NoSeptember 17:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

TJive, not to worry. Most of those entries are there due to your having my page and talk page on your watchlist. When vandals move them to new article titles they get added to your watchlist. I think you'll find most of the mystery entries in the edit histories, , . No good deed goes unpunished. Cheers, -Will Beback 17:34, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Haha, ironically I had not considered your pages. --TJive 17:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

This may also be helpful: . Eugène van der Pijll 17:44, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah! I had posted a comment to his talk page months ago, and it was since merged into Perceval's. Also, it appears that this was the vandal that caused both of the other users. Several misunderstandings at once created a bad impression, but it's cleared up now. Thanks all. --TJive 17:49, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Good, now we can abandon this thread and get back to work. This link (173) may be helpful. NoSeptember 17:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Wiarthurhu deleting AfD notices and moving pages while AfD is in progress

User has deleted 2 afd notices: . and procceded to move the pages while they were under AfD. User has a history of violating wiki procedures, is argumentative, has a prior complaint filed against him above WP:AN/I#I_have_been_having_a_dispute_lately..., and is exhausting the community's patience. He has flooded the Talk:F-14 Tomcat page with pages and pages of copy/pasted text, and despite continuous advice to heed wiki policies on reliable sources and original research, doesn't seem to take the advice to heart . I hae ceased to edit war with him, but despite repeated cirticism from other editors about the veracity of his claims and the methods and accuracy of his research (browse the last few comments on or on his talk page, and a request for mediation in progress, Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_mediation, he has continued to edit the page in question and has spread his misinformation to the VFAX page.

Administrators may in special instantces Ignore all Rules, but the same does not apply to editors and I amd tired of his belligerence. --Mmx1 16:51, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I replaced the tag on List of projects considered to be unusually successful in science and engineering and warned him. --Sam Blanning 16:56, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Block of Alienus by Will Beback for 3 days

We've had issues in the past with blocks of Alienus being lifted without sufficient consensus first. Will Beback (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) has blocked Alienus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) for three days for recurring personal attacks. Although there was a particular incident that caused Will to review, Will states on Alienus's talk page that the block is for a pattern evident in his interactions, not a specific incident. In response to an {{unblock}} I have reviewed and I concur with the block. Some back and forth has occurred in which I'm accused of not being impartial, along with some possible mischaracterisation of past events surrounding previous blocks. I think further review by other editors may be warranted. I would ask again that consensus be reached here before any blocks are overturned. (note use of the vandal template here is just because it gives the blocklog easily and I don't recall another one off hand, no assertion of vandalism is specifically intended in this case) Lar 17:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I see no reason for this block not to remain in place. Looking at the history, there certainly seems to be a pattern of incivil behaviour. Alienus, please take some time out, and come back with a new resolve to get along with other editors. -- sannse (talk) 17:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I second that. We've been down this road before, and there's no reason Alienus can't try to be a little more polite. --InShaneee 18:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Since Alienus has continued to abuse his user talk page to propagate his personal attacks even while blocked, I've requested that the page be protected. .

The unblock-en-l mailing list is operational and he can argue his case there. --Tony Sidaway 22:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the block is ridiculous. Calling someone an "edit warrior" gets you blocked for three days? Bizarre. He is being held to impossibly high standards, and is practically being stalked by some, who appear ready and eager to pounce at the slightest infraction. ^^James^^ 19:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

You sound just like Alienus. Will made it quite clear that it is the pattern of incivility, not that one incident that resulted in the block. Alienus's constant pattern of incivility and then claims that the rest of the project just isn't assuming good faith at his behavior was likely to exhaust the patience of the community sooner or later. As for the conspiracy against him, yes, there is a conspiracy here against uncivil users, and he is one of them. pschemp | talk 20:47, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

That one incident is what resulted in the block. Yes, context was also cited, but not explicitly - it's all rather vague. There are a number of warnings and overturned blocks for trivial or nonexistant offences on his talk page. Not much substance there, just a lot of hot air.

I sound just like Alienus? What's that supposed to mean? Is that a passive aggresive personal attack?

Considering you and Lar were recently involved in an altercation with Alienus, no wonder this appears to be personal. Your posting here to vehemently defend a ridiculous block certainly affirms such an impression.

You say you are against users whom you consider uncivil (rather than incivility itself), and that Alienus is one of those users. Therefore any infraction, no matter how slight, should be used to get rid of him. That is what is happening here. ^^James^^ 22:39, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Just keep breathing that paranoia gas. You'll be fine. pschemp | talk 22:48, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Case in point. That's quite insulting. And you are an admin, no? ^^James^^ 22:55, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't like my behavior? You are welcome to lodge a complaint. pschemp | talk 23:14, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Just as a note: Template:Vandal redirects to Template:Userlinks. People should really start using the latter to avoid that kinds of conflict. --Avillia 20:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I've posted this here as well as Al's talk page as it summarizes how I feel about the current situation.

I have had worse said to me by others and have put it down to a learning experience. I also have been effectively bullied by other editors who seemed invisible to the admins. The warnings by Tony Sidaway are worthless as he has nothing short of wikistalked Al and made it his personal task to sort him out. He also called Al an "edit warrior" without getting so much as a slap on the wrist. I hate to go down the same route as Al but I have not been impressed with the conduct of any of the the admins that have so far commented on the block. From previous experience none of them have shown the impartiality or clear thinking necessary to fullfil this role in a just manner. They exacerbate situations also - but this is much more worrying as they should be examples of conduct as admins. Al is an easy target as he does say the wrong thing sometimes and has upset some powerful admins by disagreeing with them on their pet topics. I avoid conflict where I possibly can but I'm becoming increasingly convinced that this is just giving in to the "playground bullies" and a bit of digging my heels in on controversial subjects would help to remove some of the systemic bias that is so prevalent. Al works on the sort of subjects that get heated and to be honest the level of comment I've seen is nicer than your average political party spat. As long as it doesn't get completly out of hand a bit of "growing up" on the part of some editors wouldn't go amiss. We make a big thing of the fact that Misplaced Pages isn't censored for minors and then get all squeamish about words like "edit warrior". Sophia 20:19, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

We are talking about an editor here whose favourite thing is to point out how people are hypocrites, yet he is one himself. Its the hypocrrite calling the hypocrite a hypocrite, which is not terribly original. Admins are not perfect, and nowhere is that a requirement of the job or is that claimed, however, they have been around long enough to show that they make logical decisions most of the time. If they don't, so what? If their judgement is terribly off, the community will correct it and that is the exact same for regular editors. I am really sick of the us vs. them mentality being shown here. Of course the inmates in a prison claim they are all innocent and the victims of a conspiracy and that the guards are abusing them. Never mind most of them are guilty as sin. As for "I have not been impressed with the conduct of any of the the admins that have so far commented on the block." Please show me where User:sannse has done anything questionable.pschemp | talk 21:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think anyone could have said it better than Sophia. There is a pattern of incivility here, that's true. But that pattern appears to be that Admins can say whatever they want and nothing is done. When an outspoken editor says one little thing that an Admin (who already has something against the editor) doesn't like, wham! Slapped with a big ol' BLOCK. This has been going on long enough, and it is about time that people start to speak up! Until recently, I, like Sophia, tried to avoid conflict. But right now, I just can't imagine letting this go. If Misplaced Pages is going to be worth anything in another few months, trigger-happy Admins must be curbed. We need more people to tell it like it is, and Alienus is being punished repeatedly for doing just that. In the past couple of weeks, my impression of Misplaced Pages's Administrators has been going seriously downhill. I really wish that someone could show me that it doesn't have to be this way, but this has not happened yet. And I am beginning to think that it never will. There are serious problems here, and one editor who sometimes gets himself into heated situations is nothing compared to the bigger picture. These problems really need to be addressed, before we lose our best editors. Please, get off your high horses and start acting like we are all equal human beings. romarin 21:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

And, Pschemp, thank you so much for proving our point. Comparing lowly editors to prison inmates is just fabulous. romarin 21:42, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

My analogy is quite obvious for editors who don't follow the rules repeatedly, not the ones who behave. Oh noes! trigger happy admins! Oh the horror! I'm sorry but wikipedia will be the sum of human knowledge, which means that somewhere, someone else has the same knowledge as you, so I don't buy the "we are going to run off our best editors" shtick. If only one person knows something, it isn't verifiable anyway, and certainly not published. We shouldn't run off good editors, but no one here is irreplacable. pschemp | talk 21:46, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Pschemp's apparent lack of concern for editors is somewhat disturbing. We are all volunteers here. We give our time freely to help build a great encyclopedia, and without us, there would be no Misplaced Pages. Abusing us is, in the end, only going to hurt the project. Exhibiting a disregard for issues of justice, as well as viewing editors as nothing more than knowledge-producing machines is quite troubling as well, especially coming from an Administrator who is supposed to be setting an example that the rest of us can follow. Editors, especially good ones, are valuable because they make decisions, they use their judgement to decide what knowledge should go into an article, and what should be left out. They avoid inserting POV, and they attempt to curb POV pushers who would only twist or censor an article. It seems to be these editors who often are most heavily targeted by Admins, particularly the trigger-happy, apathetic ones. I find it sad that certain Admins would exhibit inflamatory, uncivil, rude, and unsympathetic tendancies when their motives are questioned. It's true that we all make mistakes. It is a virtue, however, to be able to admit to such errors in a civil manner. I simply don't see this happening here. romarin 22:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Could you point out to me for which of Alienus's most recent 9 blocks he admitted making an error? I can't seem to find that. Nandesuka 22:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Could you point out to me where I said that he had? I can't seem to find it, nor do I remember having typed it. romarin 22:25, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Since the logic of Nandesuka's comment seems to have escaped you, let me spell it out. I'm quite sure he is refering to your suggestion that "It is a virtue, however, to be able to admit to such errors in a civil manner." and pointing out that Alienus has never done this.pschemp | talk 22:45, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

My comment was made in reference to certain Admins; I wasn't talking about Alienus and thus Nandesuka's statement was irrelevant. But, since you are all so quick to point your fingers, let me show you one instance in which he has admitted error and offered an apology . Would you like more, or are you done with the baiting and hypocritical finger-pointing? romarin 22:55, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is loosing good people all the time - they leave or disengage from particular articles because of an increasingly uncivil enviornment, or they determine to stay and "fight it out," adopting a hostile approach, and reinforcing the vicious cycle. Constant low-grade incivility is corrosive, and it is disruptive. If we let it continue, we end up with an enviornment where it is the norm. Tom Harrison 22:36, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you completely. As leaders, I think Admins should be the first to be cited for incivility, even if that means that their powers get taken away. They are supposed to be setting an example, and they so far seem to be setting a bad one. romarin 22:43, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Why don't you tell us why Alienus's behaviour doesn't deserve a block instead of screaming about admin abuse? His behaviour is the real topic here, and I've yet to see it defended. pschemp | talk 22:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

So if Alienus were an admin you'd say he needed to be blocked? or just de-sysoped? I support the block, if that wasn't clear. Tom Harrison 22:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the point is that if Alienus were an admin he would not be blocked. Admins seem to be given cart blanche for being uncivil with impunity. The double standard is most clear in this case since all Al did was refer to someone as an "edit warrior?!" I have see countless times where even admins refer to "regular" editors in exactly that manner with not a peep out of anyone about its not being civil. Clearly Al is being singled out, targeted in a manner that is not based upon equal standards. This is another example of admin abuse having the effect of driving out the critical editors, who are among the best and brightest. Many admins seem to have formed something of a club, like some corrupt police unit. The prison vs. guard analogy is a particularly disturbing insight into the kind of mentality we are dealing with here. My opinion of admins has been going down fast (there are a few good ones), and this is just another nail on the coffin of the admin system. Why are so many admins of such low quality? If this perpetuates itself, Misplaced Pages is in trouble unless it gets rid of admins, or seriously checks their abusive pratices, throws out those who have shown to be terrible examples of the ideals of an ideal wikipedian.64.121.40.153 08:04, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I suggest that those people concerned with Alienus' approach to editing open an RfC or ArbCom case. This block/unblock cycle is neither fair to the user nor helpful to the project. Jkelly 22:48, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

The problem with trigger happy admins is that they are more likely to pull the trigger on people they disagree with, or have personal issues with. This block is such a case. ^^James^^ 22:50, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

fiddlesticks. Alienus has been warned about behaviour like this User_talk:Alienus#Glad_you_are_not_me and this User_talk:Alienus#To what do I owe... neither of which, I note, involve any of the admins involved in warning him in the past, in fact GTBacchus was one of his defenders in the past. You're being quite disingenious trying to paint this as some sort of big bad admin conspiracy. The guy is uncivil, he's been warned, he's not stopping and I think it's time that you all (James and Romarin) stopped too because you're way off the mark. ++Lar: t/c 22:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Come now Lar, admin-baiting is a delightful sport for the whole family! Seriously, though, we've got to stop acting as though there's ever an excuse for incivility. I support Will's block. Mackensen (talk) 23:04, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Lar, regarding the posts you cite, the first is obviously a joke. And in the second, GTBacchus calls Alienus a dick! And you have the nerve to call me disingenious (see WP:NPA). It seems any accusation will do, no matter how insubstantial. Throw enough mud and some of it is sure to stick. And please refrain from invoking the word conspiracy, as it is usually used pejoratively to tar opponents as tin foil hat wearing loons. Ie: It's a personal attack. ^^James^^ 23:11, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Conspiracy! Paranoia! Admin Abuse! Personal attack! pschemp | talk 23:15, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, pschemp. This is precisely what I'm talking about. Admins can't even control themselves while discussing a case of alleged incivility! And yet Alienus gets blocked for three days for referring to someone as an "edit warrior"?! It's ridiculous. But it goes to show: editors that are disliked are held to impossibly high standards, while admins can hurl insults with immunity.

Case in point: pschemp insults me above, then dares me to try to do something about it. Not a pretty picture I'm afraid. ^^James^^ 23:51, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Nonsense begets nonsense. pschemp | talk 23:58, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

What is nonesense is that a user got blocked for three days for calling someone an "edit warrior". ^^James^^ 01:20, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Red beams go quietly to visa giant LEGO cats. pschemp | talk 02:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Without commenting on the blocks in question, I'd like to again encourage all administrators to attempt to set an example of civil behavior. - brenneman 03:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Let sensation lewis beauty check design in fan spray. pschemp | talk 04:46, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Al and I have clashed in the past — like others he disageed with I was accused of having a bias for trying to achieve NPOV. (One of Al's inabilities is to understand that his edits are can be less neutral than he himself thinks. But then we all have that failing in some form or other. It can be a particular problem with Al.) I agreed with him however (much to Al's shock!) that Tony's behaviour towards him was prevocative and unnecessarily confrontational. Al can be tactless, while believing that he is being tactful, and provocative while believing that he is being the exact opposite. In this case, having read the comments that led to the block, my reaction is to think that, taken in isolation, they would not warrant a block. However taken in the context of numerous other comments over a long period, and past warnings to stop, a block is understandable. He does push it a bit and a block, unfortunately, was in my opinion only a matter of time. I would hope that Al might get the message and reign in his tendency to preach and judge. We all do it from time to time (I'm waving both hands in the air at this stage. I know I do it). Al tends to be his own worst enemy. There is however a distinction between someone trying to provoke and offend for negative reasons, and those who do it out of a genuine and well motivated belief that they are doing the "right thing". Al is IMHO one of the latter. He needs to ease off on the attack comments. If he does this block, I hope, will be a once-off and not something constantly to be repeated. FearÉIREANN\ 04:28, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

It is much too late for this to be a "once-off". This is the user's tenth block, the previous blocks having been caused by personal attacks, incivility, or edit warring. -Will Beback 04:36, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of the scale of that. That puts a different complexion in things. I created a template recently that covers a user with multiple blocks called {{blocknumbers}}. In it admins can fill out details of the number of past blocks and warnings a user has, the length of the most recent block and an explanation of the general context if required. It can be placed on the page of someone who is being blocked regularly so that other admins, in dealing with their behaviour, knows at a glance the stats, rather than having to go through their talk page and archives to see what their past behaviour was like. Perhaps you should put the template on Al's talk page so that the context is clear for everyone to see. It also has had the benefit of bringing home to perpetual offenders who may be in denial as to their behaviour just how many warnings and blocks they have received.FearÉIREANN\ 04:49, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Please review Al's blocks and you will see that the case is not as clear as Will Beback would have it. Also pschemp's prison analogy is far more worrying that he realises - see read the Stanford Prison Experiment to see how the situation we have here can go very very wrong. The truth is that admins are very reluctant to block each other and unpopular editors get blocks for the same actions that admins cheerfully get away with (see my previous post). If you protest your block you are a labeled a trouble maker or accused of making PA's by effectively calling the admins incompetent and I have seen Al's blocks increased in this way. Too much trouble comes from people being "trigger happy" about what is written. One person's offense is anothers wierd sense of humour/reaction to stress. This is an international project and all the time I see underestimated how cultural differences affect the way we approach situations. I'm British so I'm very good at being polite and queuing for my turn to edit 8-). I personally find some US editors "full on" and almost aggressively direct but I have also met many Americans in person who come across the same way. However it is just their manner, their hearts are in the right place and as long as you stick to the facts and sources you should be able to work together. If the integrity of the encyclopedia is most important what we should be looking at here is whether Al was adding to it when he was accused of "edit warring" or whether he was disrupting it. I have not agreed with him on everything but I have never had a problem with him. In fact I'm able to work with several "problem" editors just by not rising to the bait and sticking to what the verifiable sources have to say on a subject.

Now his talk page is protected which is ridiculous especially as it looks from the history as if one admin added a comment by bypassing the protection giving Al no chance to respond . If you repeatedly treat someone unfairly you are going to see a "pattern" of them resisting the system. I have been fully convinced that the last few blocks were intended to create an impressive history so as to work towards removing him and have seen nothing here yet to disuade me of that position. As for the juvenile comments by some admins above - what can I say other than that they no show empathy or understanding of the current situation and should be given LEGO blocks instead of admin tools. Sophia

Repeated removal of cleanup tags, blanking of talk page and general refusal to discuss

ZMAN (talk · contribs) persists in removing cleanup tags from History of Wyandotte, Michigan (which BTW, is in dire need of assistance). ZMAN has also repeatedly blanked the talk page Talk:History of Wyandotte, Michigan, removing discussion between myself and Derek Balsam (talk · contribs) about possible copyright violations on the page. So far ZMAN has not disussed his/her actions at all, despite repeated requests. ZMAN has also blanked his/her own user talk page and , ignoring recent requests for discussion and warnings about copyright. older ≠ wiser 19:22, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism to Lukas Podolski page, moved here at other users advice

Note moved here per

Matyldalondyn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and 87.227.28.6 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) Users, who are likely the same person persistently re-add deleted dubious trivia from the Lukas Podolski after being asked for sources to verify a trivia piece about the subjects singing of national anthem before game. Said users edits are seen here.

Other users have identified said trivia as dubious as well and have deleted. Only to have it re-added by the said users. Other deletions are seen here.

Users have been asked for sources to verify information, neither have provided, leaving me to believe that they're only editing for the sake of inserting vandalism. Their contribution history clearly affirms this. , . I thank you in advance for helping to deal with this persistent inclusion of dubious and unsourced vandalism. Batman2005 18:54, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

He's been blocked already. Sasquatch t|c 23:52, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, blocked after violating 3RR, which took place after I posted my complaint here. Batman2005 23:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Aylesbury Grammar School

Same old story, students from the school are adding nicknames of the headteacher, photographs of penises drawn in snow outside the school and other nonsense to the article, claiming they have a right seeing as they go to the school. It's in my watchlist so reverting vandalism isn't a problem however I have a personal interest in keeping the article clear of rubbish aside from the norm. Would a couple of others mind watchlisting it for future vandalism please? -- Francs2000 File:Flag of Buckinghamshire.png 00:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism Not To Be Tolerated

Why in the world do we allow vandalism to go unchecked on the Tiannamen Square page but not the Chinese Democracy page? Any thoughts?Martin Briley 00:49, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Tiananmen Square. It appears that there is no vandalism on the article as of this note, and when there was vandalism, it appears to be consistently reverted. If you have specific concerns, preferably including diffs that show our lack of concern, we'd appreciate being able to review them. Thank you for your input! ~Kylu (u|t) 01:24, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

• because that's not how you spell Tiananmen Square?--205.188.116.65 01:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Werdnabot Archival of this page.

As you may have noticed, I just added Werdnabot archival of this page, as CrypticBot is currently MIA. This was per a request on my talk page. I just ran an emergency job to clear this page out, and I'm pleased to inform you that the archival removed 55 sections with no posts in three days; a total of 108kb. Hopefully, this should clear out the page. Please note that I'm working on having the archive number automatically incremented, and this will be sorted shortly. Werdna (talk) 01:43, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Werdna for responding to the request! Netscott 01:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Exceptional. Thanks Werdna -- Samir धर्म 03:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Jeb berkeley

There's a vandal going around named Jeb berkeley, or some variation of that. Here are some of his sockpuppets:

Jeb berkeley (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
That Jeb Berkeley guy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Jeb Berkeley on wheels! (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

There's more in the IP Block list. If someone could do something, that would be appreciated, since he seems to be targeting me and my subpages. --Mr. Lefty _{Talk to me!} 02:14, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Update: I believe they all stem from banned user Jeb Berkeley (talk · contribs). --Mr. Lefty _{Talk to me!} 02:18, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Makes sense to me. See also:

Jeb Berkeley on the railway (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Jeb Berkeleys next move (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

--james _{// bornhj (talk)} 02:26, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Others with similar tendencies (pages after, and mentions of Jeb Berkeley). DVD+ R/W 02:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Lsyv (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Rocos Rorrhum (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

I've notice that Tetleys (talk · contribs) has placed tags on many suspected Jeb Berkeley socks. Tetleys contribs lists about 15 of them and might be a valuable reference in proceeding with this case further. DVD+ R/W 03:16, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

That's the "North Carolina Vandal". Jeb Berkeley = Jake Remington, etc., ad nauseam. Antandrus (talk) 04:31, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

User:T-man, the Wise Scarecrow banned from article

As his mentor, I've just banned T-man, the Wise Scarecrow (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log) from List of Justice League episodes for two weeks as part of his probation. He has been trying to railroad changes that have generated significant opposition from other editors, ignoring their concerns and being generally incivil. Further disruption will terminate his mentorship and will trigger the six-month ban clause of the Arbitration case between him and Dyslexic Agnostic. Titoxd 05:40, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

A friend of mine was messing around on wikipedia from my computer after i showed him my two edits and that "anyone can do it". if you look at my ip address, you will notice precisely two edits done to wiki articles that were "serious" changes. i did not defame anyone.

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