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Message to Sitush

Hi sitush, I have edited Bhagwati Charan Vohra the page with authentic source . His comrade Yashpal in his autobiography has written about his death birth and this faith which is I think is most reliable than any other sources. And about the Khatri they lived Nepal also Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darchoola (talk • contribs) 02:34, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

@Darchoola: I think you might benefit from a read of WP:Citing sources and WP:NPOV. You didn't provide a source for all of the changes that you made and when you did provide one, it was pretty meaningless. In addition, Yashpal's view may be only one of several: if various reliable sources say different things then we have to show all of them, not cherrypick one. I'm not even sure how useful Yashpal's autobiography is as a source: yes, he knew Vohra as a fellow revolutionary/co-conspirator but he is unlikely to be independent.

I can help you with citing stuff but would need more information. For example, the full title of the book, the publisher, year of publication, ISBN number (if one exists) and the page number(s) where the information is contained. You might also want to provide a quote from the source if it is difficult to get hold of. - Sitush (talk) 08:07, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

@Sitush: Please go through the page when Bhagwati was died on the banks of Ravi while testing Bomb as written below in the text how can you write he died in United Providence on the top ? where Ravi flows ? surely in Punjab, Lahore and not in United Province , Do you need any other reference for conformation for that also ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darchoola (talk • contribs) 03:29, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Darchoola, which page number is that, and in which book? Yashpal's autobiography? If so, what is the title of it? I'll certainly look into it but, as I said, I need more details about what we're supposed to be citing. - Sitush (talk) 06:17, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Sitush, there is an inconsistency in the page. The "Death" section says he died when a bomb exploded on the banks of the Ravi while the infobox says he died in the United Provinces. The Ravi flows in the Punjab and not the United Provinces. Also, while not particularly reliable, note this source which says that he "died on the banks of the Ravi" (viz, The Punjab) but also says the bomb exploded on the Delhi - Agar Railway line (Agar is possibly Agra?) (which would imply the United Provinces). I'll see what else I can dig up. --regentspark (comment) 11:34, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

this source says he died of wounds sustained in Lahore. Though it is possible that he was wounded in Lahore and then moved to the United Provinces, that is extremely unlikely. Pending some other source, I'll restore Darchoola's edit. --regentspark (comment) 13:42, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

@RegentsPark: as I've been trying to explain to Darchoola, I don't care what we say provided that it is properly sourced. I've not had time to delve into Vohra's life. - Sitush (talk) 16:00, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

@Sitush: Yashpal has written autobiographical book in four volume Sinahavalokan(Retrospection) : An attempt of armed revolution in India published in 1952 by Lokbharatiya prakashan Allahabad. Book in Hindi is story about armed revolt by Hindustan Socialist Republican Army and role played by Yashpal. He has written Bhagat Singh, Sukhdev were his classmate in Lahore and Bhagwati charan was a two class senior to them.He wrote Bhagwati was a tall almost 6feet and handsome man and was a Gujrati Brahmin but came to Lahore from Agara where they lived. In volume II PAGE NO 137 He has written that center committee meeting of HSRA held on third week of January 1930 at Kanpur which he had attended. In that meeting Bhagwati charan was chosen as Secretary or Coordinator of HSRA, Azad was commander in chief,Damodar swarop as propaganda chief. In page 176-183 he wrote about incident which killed Bhagwati charan. Pseudo name of Bagwati in party was Hari , He died due to bomb blast in his hand while testing on the bank of Ravi river. He was cremated drowning into the river by Azad,Yashpal and Bachan as he had written in his book.

Hi Sitush ,Varna (Hinduism)You believe that the translation is incorrect but according to Chinmayananda Saraswati who is a much respected Hindu preacher and the founder of Vishva Hindu Parishad the edited translation is correct and regarding the brevity of the edit ,i hope you would understand that the writing the whole 3 page explanation will not be making Wiki useful to people who are just looking for brief explanation.Hope you wont remove my edit this time cause this will be the 3rd time when you would be doing that ;) P.S If you dont know something ,don't remove it .There are lot of things that you might not be knowing . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Devagyarishi238 (talk • contribs) 18:54, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

This is the second time even after me explaining ,as well as given you the sources you are undoing my edits .Stop doing it . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Devagyarishi238 (talk • contribs) 17:56, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

@Devagyarish238: I missed your first note here because it is not really correctly placed - it would have been better if you had created a new section at the bottom of this page. However, since you have been reverted by two people, it makes more sense to discuss the edit at Talk:Varna (Hinduism). Please can you do so. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 18:23, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

India Against Corruption, Aam Aadmi Party

I have reviewed your editing history and habit of regularly inserting libelous text into Misplaced Pages articles on India such as India Against Corruption andAam Aadmi Party and their top leaders, so as to convert Misplaced Pages into a "battleground" and defame/damage them electorally.

As the changes you have made just now seem to be yours alone and without consensus of other editors, I am approaching the leadership of both organisations, ie. India Against Corruption as well as Aam Aadmi Party for their official clarifications arising from your edits, since I am a registered voter in India. Mansjelly (talk) 09:28, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Re: "libelous", see WP:NLT. More generally, approach anyone you like - it won't make a blind bit of difference. The issues have been discussed extensively, including at WP:ANI, and you are very obviously not new to Misplaced Pages. - Sitush (talk) 09:43, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @Mansjelly: The opinions of India Against Corruption and Aam Aadmi Party have no bearing on Misplaced Pages's policies and practices, and neither organisation gets to say what editors can and cannot do here on Misplaced Pages. If you think there are changes needed, then you should discuss them on the talk pages of the relevant articles, provide sources to back you up, and try to achieve a consensus to support you. If instead, however, you simply go around making personal attacks on editors on their talk pages, you are likely to find yourself prevented from editing. Finally, implying illegal action is quite likely to get you a quick block as per WP:NLT. Mansjelly, I seriously suggest you have a read of WP:NPA before you decide how to proceed further - and take a look at WP:RS and WP:Consensus too. — Alan / Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 09:52, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Weird conversation I had with the OP here: User_talk:NeilN#Ashish_Nanda. First the information is in the public domain and now it's covered under the Official Secrets Act. Huh. --NeilN 15:35, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

The IAC pressure group seems mostly to be a bunch of self-appointed paranoid nutters. On Misplaced Pages, at least. - Sitush (talk) 00:36, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Indic Scripts

Hey Sitush, I could use a little help here  NQ  talk 15:12, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Never mind, taken care of. Thanks.  NQ  talk 15:56, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

User:Nayar Caste

I thought I'd ask your thoughts about what to do about this. Mentioning members must be a blp vio, though. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 08:14, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

@Anna Frodesiak: it seems from this comment that Dougweller has picked up on your query here. I've been a bit busy uploading child pornography to Commons, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 00:35, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Ah, yes. I responded to Dougweller with thanks for that. As for that other thing, wow, that is one horrible, horrible false allegation. One really does neet a thick skin to edit here. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:43, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Thick skin, a sense of humour and/or proportion. All those who are gnashing their teeth about naughty words at the moment really don't seem to understand how trivial it all is. - Sitush (talk) 00:48, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Please do not change the definition to Propaganda or vague meanings in Wiki texts as youth is misguided and mis informed due to errors in edits

Dear Sitush, I can understand your eagerness to keep the propagand about hate of british imperialism alive... But the definition is a definition... U cannot simply say "Inquilaab Zindabad"...which literally means long live the revolution to "Down with the imperialism"... Many of the young viewers come to Wiki to read about bhagat Singh and most of them do not go to the link about Inquilab zindabad when its definition is given in bracket (which is wrong when we say "Down with the inperialism"). You are teaching wrong things to the youth bro.. Secondly, Bhagat singh was a revolutionary, a member of HSRA, wanted to bring the socialist changes in a free India... That can be seen with his views on ineffectiveness of future Democracy...Even when we add a non-definition "Down with the democracy" tag here shows he wanted a free India...thats it.. without the revolutionary changes in Indian system... That was his key profile which you are taking away frm his information in the wiki...

Frankly, I'm not sure that the precise translation really matters in the context of this particular article but we just follow what the sources say: it makes things verifiable and easier to deal with. You'll note that another experienced contributor has reverted you also. - Sitush (talk) 00:30, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

ANI

You're welcome. I was actually a little tentative about closing the thread since I wasn't sure you'd gotten all you wanted from it, but it was attracting socks like flies on horseshit - didn't seem much point in offering them another venue in which to libel you. Yunshui _水 19:45, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

@Yunshui: I didn't feel it appropriate to close it because, although idiotic to anyone who knows me, they were raising criticisms of me. Given the current belligerent climate across numerous noticeboards and talk pages, there might have been someone who would accuse me of censorship. Alas, I can pretty much guarantee that those behind it will be back very soon and doubtless they'll also be doing stuff off-wiki, like the death threat I got when they were last beggaring about. - Sitush (talk) 19:52, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Well, who wouldn't love a hobby where you get death threats and criminal accusations as standard? Stamp-collecting is for wimps. Yunshui _水 07:26, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

My talk page

If you cannot conduct yourself with more honor, I would like to ask you to stay away from the discussion on my talk page.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 22:00, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

@Jimbo Wales: Please explain "More honor"? This seems ridiculous to me. Where have I gone wrong? - Sitush (talk) 23:17, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

More specifically, it would seem that you are content to see people label me as a misogynist (which is wrong), happy to tolerate people who misrepresent a thread (which, surely, is wrong), happy to see someone label an entire cohort of Wikipedians as "corrupt". Etc. But not in the slightest bothered that I get death threats, umpteen *genuinely* libellous statements and have recently been accused of uploading child porn. This situation is madness, it really is. You are well on the way to losing one of this project's rather useful contributors. And for what? - Sitush (talk) 23:26, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

From Jimbo's talk page Jimbo welcomes your comments and updates – he has an open door policy. I guess that open door got chucked out of an open window!--regentspark (comment) 23:39, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

He has done this to others before and it is his right per TPG. But it looks to me like an over-reaction and, indeed, seems to be a contrary reaction. Boing has just gone, Drmies looks unhappy and so do umpteen others, including quite a few self-identified females. Most of these people are long-standing and intelligent contributors who quite evidently do not show a misogynistic bias etc, who allow and engage in what (strictly speaking) borders on "social network" conversation on their talk pages.

Will Misplaced Pages carry on? Of course it will but it is now not only losing contributors but also those among them who have done very significant amounts of work, often in areas where WP most needs it (eg: educating, enforcing copyright and BLP violations, resolving situations involving blatant legal threats, dealing with huge amounts of POV content). I am sure that "honor" is a nice thing but it doesn't make the world turn round and I'm still mystified as to how it applies to me in any case. I have my moments, as you know, but nothing I've said on Jimbo's page seems to justify what amounts to an accusation of being dishonourable. Not that I want to get into the semantics of whether "have more" is the same as "being dis-". If he really felt that there was a problem then he should have blocked me for TPG violation, NPA or whatever it is that "more honor" relates to. That would have been a first but I invite him or anyone else to go for it. - Sitush (talk) 00:01, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Hopefully Jimbo will explain himself. But, now that I've scanned the discussion itself, I must say I'd lean toward BHG's view on obscenities. I've never understood why EC, an otherwise erudite sort of chap, feels the need to 'c' this or 'f' that. There are far more effective ways of pointing out the idiocy in the statements of others. I've heard worse so it doesn't bother me but I can see that it doesn't pass muster with the suburban set. Meanwhile, do bear in mind that you're not here because of what Jimbo thinks or says and there are many many editors here who respect what you do on Misplaced Pages! --regentspark (comment) 01:03, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

I not really fussed either way about the "obscenities", except that it becomes the thin end of an Orwellian wedge of which we cannot predict the end. What words next? I sometimes say "Bollocks" and honestly believe that is not gender-offensive to anyone, and I've heard it said in the seemingly proverbial workplace, courtroom and even church. Honest.

In any event, I strongly suspect that the "obscenity" issue is not the "more honor" issue. I might be wrong but I doubt it because I've not really said much about EC. FWIW, I'm pretty sure that there are a fair few female contributors out there who have done much more than those coming out of the woodwork at the moment and who have no problem with me. This is turning into a complete mess and for some reason I am being made the scapegoat. While Jimbo is just "another user" on paper, he carries weight and he is throwing it about. Again, I invite someone to block me if they really think I've overstepped. Not that I'd particularly want to see it, but surely @Eric Corbett: would be a more appealing target for weight-throwing? - Sitush (talk) 01:14, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

You'd have thought so. I suppose the danger now though is that we're moving into Thomas Becket territory now that Jimbo has expressed his displeasure. Eric Corbett 01:21, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Ah, Beckett. Of whom all I have read is Godot. Perhaps I'll have time to read more soon, although if Godot is a decent measure of the man's work then maybe I won't bother! Eric, is "dramatic" an obscenity in any dictionary? I've not been able to spot it as such but it seems to be the word that was causing some offence to some people, apparently because it is most obviously a misogynistic put-down in the context that I used it. Really, this is a scary situation: someone misrepresents etc and the person who calls them out is "done" for using a perfectly innocuous word correctly. Amateur dramatics or what? - Sitush (talk) 01:35, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Sheesh! Wrong Beckett,and me a historian! Time for bed. - Sitush (talk) 01:46, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Our Thomas Becket is ... still sucky. Sorry. I've always destested the little ... hyper-idiotic ... archbishop and have only done basic cleanup. Becket had a martyr complex a mile-wide and no ability to be diplomatic. Ealdgyth - Talk 02:24, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) It befuddles me that such intelligent, highly esteemed editors as have commented in this thread, have so completely misunderstood Mr. Wales comment that it would seem instead as a scapegoating ploy against Sitush. Nothing could be further from the truth. Mr. Wales employed the most brilliant metaphor I have ever seen while achieving a nearly perfect threaded discussion to use for all time; that shows what civility is, why it must be required, and how easily it falls asunder when its importance is halfheartedly feigned. When taken as an if-then conditional statement, hurtful scorn is observably generated in the collective reply. But, when evaluated the way it was actually given, a statement of if-then/else conditions, its meaning becomes clear; and the insult first presumed emerges in truth as honorable praise of exceedingly high magnitude.—John the Baptist (talk) 03:41, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

The above was an inside joke, given in poor taste, I admit. I apologize Sitush.—John Cline (talk) 00:42, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Lol. Well, I've probably burned my bridges with Jimbo now (as if it matters). Sitush, you can just ignore what he says. Seriously, don't take him seriously. It isn't the first stupid thing he's said. Dougweller (talk) 07:15, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Hear, hear, nor the first pompous thing he's said either. I've exhorted Jimbo on his page to justify the "conduct yourself with more honor" thing above, but I fully expect him to ignore me, as he has ignored Sitush's question here. Floquenbeam, you removed Jimbo's personal attack above. I never liked the idea of whisking those off into the closet, since generally an attacker embarrasses themselves more than the target, which was certainly the case here. You should let the people see. At the very least, link to the attack, so interested people can understand the following comments without a day trip through the history. I've done that now. Who needs to see a link to WP:NPA? Bishonen | talk 12:32, 1 August 2014 (UTC).

I took it one step further, simply restoring the comment. I agree with User:Bishonen that personal attacks only make the attacker look bad, and in this case I think it would be best to leave the original wording, especially since Sitush had responded directly to the bit about "more honor". We could argue about whether WP:REFACTOR applies here, or whether Jimbo's comment was egregious enough to merit the {{RPA}}, or whether it is best to ignore personal attacks altogether, but I think in any case the point has been made sufficiently, and it is now best to let this slip into the archives in a more reader-friendly format. (Not an endorsement or anti-endorsement of the comment by me...I haven't actually read the discussion on Jimbo's talk page.) ~Adjwilley (talk) 16:01, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree, I was just somewhat deferring to Floquenbeam by offering a compromise rather than reverting him outright. But I've just remembered he doesn't rate that any more, haha. Bishonen | talk 16:15, 1 August 2014 (UTC).

I'm pretty sure reverting me is a personal attack. Or dishonorable. Or something. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:50, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh, yeah. Hi, Sitush! Seen you around, admire your work, Jimbo's got no idea what he's talking about, I wouldn't touch your areas of editing with a 10-foot pole. It's bad enough in the medieval stuff. But we need folks like you - willing to edit in POV areas and ensure quality. We need more of you... not more of Jimbo. (Figured I should at least say "hi" while I was here) Ealdgyth - Talk 12:17, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Jimbo's a populist who'll climb onto this gender gap brouhaha for as long as it suits him, without actually doing anything. We need to see a lot less of him. Anyway Ealdgyth, haven't you got a girly article to write on lipstick or something? ;-) Eric Corbett 13:52, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

What I know about makeup would fit onto the head of a very small pin. I haven't worn it in over 20 years (and that was a one-off for a wedding - I quit wearing it in 1987 when I first went to college - too much bother for early morning classes). Current research interest is obscure Anglo-Norman clerks and noblemen. And eagerly awaiting access to the ODNB again...Ealdgyth - Talk 14:10, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

EaldgythIf you don't get it, let me know. Unless they've axed it due to budget cuts, I've got access via my library. And JSTOR through Yale. Dougweller (talk) 18:17, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

My JSTOR Is working now - I was one of the original 100 trial accounts WMF wrangled, so it's still working. I'm approved for ODNB, it's just ... awaiting activation. I just dropped off some really exciting requests at my local library (Basset Family Charters... anyone?) for ILL searches. Feeling much more refreshed and eager to edit after the dustup this winter and spring at Middle Ages... thankfully now the sockpuppets are banished. Ealdgyth - Talk 18:34, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

I'd like you to stay

I'm sorry if my use of the word 'dishonorable' was upsetting to you. And yet I disagree very strongly with the characterization of some about my words and their motives and so on. I can be criticized for many things but following the popular fashion of the moment is not one of them. Rather, it's more that I have a very strong sense of consistency across time that can be quite inflexible.

What I'd like to do, and it seems possible that email will be more peaceful for it without the chiming in of various people with various agendas, is have a conversation with you about these issues so that I can make sure that we understand each other. On my talk page I gave a detailed explanation of why I was disappointed in your behavior, and I'm happy to go into as much detail as you like, either here or there or in email.

I am a big believer in something that I'm likely to talk about at Wikimania (haven't fully decided yet if I can formulate it well enough to suit me): moral ambitiousness. I think that we should not be reaching for mere civility but something bigger, something stronger, something more powerful. And that is genuine mutual love and respect, held to dearly even in the face of a difficult disagreement. I think that you are capable of much and that you may not have ever had the chance to reflect on how descending from a dismissal (without really hearing) of a concern into calling someone a liar and delusional is not the path to harmony and love in life.

There are some who I think, with sadness, are not reachable by this message. In those cases I sincerely do hope that they walk away with dignity and create their own space where hostility, misogyny, and all the rest are tolerated. That space will fail to thrive, and perhaps through that failure they will learn something.

But I don't think that you are among them.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:48, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

@Jimbo Wales: I've had quite a few emails about your note above, and not one of them has been complimentary, eg: "what a steaming pile of condescending self-righteous bullshit" and "Jimbo is an idiot, and a dishonest one at that. He's also a person who likes to give the impression that he's still running Misplaced Pages or that he has some kind of authority over it, but most editors do not listen to him and rightly consider him a moron. He also has a tendency to say he'll do something or he'll campaign for something and then forget about it the following week." I suppose these sort of comments are to be expected: people on your side of the fence probably would not email me. But they come from people who, by and large, have kept out of the recent fracas.

I'm still considering whether or not further discussion would be a worthwhile use of my time, in part because you seem to have misread what I said and that isn't really a great starting point. Still, a few more days of consideration will not go amiss. You'll be busy with Wikimania over the next few days and I've got to make the most of a short-term, rare opportunity to earn some money, even if that opportunity does involve being sworn at a lot by my colleagues in a typical private sector English workplace. And if I don't hear them (I'm profoundly deaf), they just resort to common sign language or throw something at me. - Sitush (talk) 03:02, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

I've kept out of the recent fracas and here's my two cents: Why don't you engage Jimbo and use the opportunity to form your own opinion? Much better than relying on third-party emails. --NeilN 03:54, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Indeed, that is what I am considering. Among the problems is that I know of people who have been asked to engage with Jimbo via email in the past and they've not been very happy with the outcome (the contents, of course, being privileged). Those people are not the two whom I quote above, nor indeed any of the others who have emailed me of late. Equally, if any engagement takes place here then it could just become another act in the present circus and the forumshoppers will be all over it. I also need to get my blood pressure down: his original note in the section above really, really p'd me off and I'm afraid that his subsequent analysis in his response to Begoon at User talk:Jimbo Wales only made that worse. Right now, I've got a bit of real-life work to do and I've got a GA nomination in the process of review: civility issues will still be around next week, Jimbo will be and so will I, provided no-one arrests me for distributing child porn in the interval. That, too, rankles because even the allegation, if spotted by some eager beaver, can affect my ability to coach young kids in rugby ... but it is out there now and all I can do is keep refuting it until the WMF deign to tell me what the heck is going on.

Thanks, by the way, for stepping in to help out with various India articles of late. Some additional experience to stem the flow of (mostly) sewage is much needed, much appreciated. - Sitush (talk) 07:34, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Sitush, it wouldn't have to become another act in the forumshopper circus. If you want to, and Jimbo is up for it, you could engage him on a dedicated page, for instance a subpage in your space, which would be public but not allowed to be edited by anybody other than you two. I did that once, in 2009. I wouldn't say it turned out exactly useful (I ended up leaving in frustration, finding Jimbo "profoundly deaf" in a more metaphorical sense than you), but we both tried, no doubt, and I do think it's a far better option than e-mail. Sunlight is better than hidden corners. There is no technical way of preventing others from chiming in, but we simply asked them not to, and it worked fine. I had expected to have to revert a few commenting spectators, but no, nothing. Such a page should perhaps be semi'd against flyby IPs, though. Bishonen | talk 10:08, 5 August 2014 (UTC).

hope over experience

Thank you for the caption --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:43, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

ArbCom

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Civility and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for arbitration;
• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration guide.

Thanks, --Tom (LT) (talk) 23:31, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh, good gods. What a freaking silly thing for someone to start. What the hell, are we under a full moon for weeks or something? Ealdgyth - Talk 23:49, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid that we can only look forward to more and more of this kind of nonsense given Jimbo's vomit-inducing statement above. I find the idea of loving or being loved by anyone on here to be distinctly creepy. And Jimbo would probably prefer we all forgot that he was forced to agree not to use his blocking tool as a result of some rather unloving behaviour on his part. Maybe he's found religion since then? Hallelujah! Eric Corbett 00:27, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

It looks like it is going nowhere, although I'm not even sure what the point of naming me as a party may have been. The responses from @Salvio giuliano: might go a long way to explaining the words used by my Italian sister-in-law, although it could be that working in Britain has just rubbed off on her. - Sitush (talk) 07:39, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of William Beach Thomas

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article William Beach Thomas you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Mike Christie -- Mike Christie (talk) 16:41, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of William Beach Thomas

The article William Beach Thomas you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:William Beach Thomas for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Mike Christie -- Mike Christie (talk) 20:01, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of William Beach Thomas

The article William Beach Thomas you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:William Beach Thomas for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Mike Christie -- Mike Christie (talk) 11:22, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

William Beach Thomas

Moving the conversation here since the GA review is done. I think I'd remove the parallel structure by replacing "not" with a description specific to the troops". Perhaps "Public opinion at home may have been mollified, even uplifted, by the efforts of the correspondents but the troops were less impressed by the newspaper coverage, despite the demand among them for newspapers from home being high." Or just "less impressed"; or perhaps "scornful" or something similar, if the sources support it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:31, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

I see, thanks. I'll have a proper read of the relevant bit of the zeugma article, and a think. And a re-read of the sources, of course. - Sitush (talk) 11:38, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Am I going mad or what?

Yes, am I going mad or what? Replies to Misplaced Pages:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_August_5#Dhanada_Kanta_Mishra. - Sitush (talk) 11:45, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Child: "Where are we going?"

Morrissey: "We're all going mad."

Child: "I thought we were going to Kew Gardens?"

Pete "Elder Goth" AU aka --Shirt58 (talk) 12:29, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

Howdy Sitush, just saw your !vote here, thanks for doing that. It is pretty clear that it is a COI issue. Yesterday, someone has send an email and threatened me for nominating it for deletion. I haven't responded and totally ignored it. Is there any way to report it?? Or should I disable my email function?? Suggestions?? Jim Carter (from public cyber) 16:04, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I don't think you should disable your email — not unless you get a storm of unwanted messages — but do continue to not respond. You mean a threat of real-life harm of any kind? If you believe there's anything credible in such a threat, you can report it to the WMF by emailing emergency@wikimedia.org. Bishonen | talk 16:33, 7 August 2014 (UTC).

A conflict of interest is not a valid reason to delete. There are valid reasons in this instance but COI is not one of them. As for the email, I tend just to ignore them even when they're extreme in nature. However, if it was sent through the Misplaced Pages email system and offered a threat of some type then you might want to report it to emergency@wikimedia.org - Sitush (talk) 16:38, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Ah, I see that Bish got in there. That's a weird edit conflict - have they enabled FLOW without me knowing or what? - Sitush (talk) 16:39, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

The most valid reason according to me is the fact that the subject doesn't pass notability. All the mentioned sources doesn't actually implies that the subject is notable. I don't have much knowledge about Indian film related subjects but they easily become famous after a few appearance in front of the camera, which is not enough to establish notability, it is the reason why I nominated it for Afd. Another reason is the tone of the article. Almost everything is written in a promotional tone. And COI is a supporting reason. Anyway, I have filed a report at the above email. They stated a clear intention to harm by saying "we will chopoff your fingers". Thanks Bish & Sitush for the help. Happy editing Jim Carter (from public cyber) 18:17, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank You!

I have a feeling my humble efforts at the band article were a more difficult edit than they needed to be; another editor who helped me described my work as "long and complicated", haha. I don't have previous experience with doing my own article, just a ton of more minor editing (mostly on other people's work on music topics). What happened was, I wrote a smaller article, and I think I only used Huff Post and All Music, maybe one other source, and I was sure that was enough to get a "stub" approved. It was rejected. In my inexperience and hubris, I just argued a lot with the experienced editor. He got a nice and helpful editor to work with me, and she pointed me in the direction of adding less 100% solid sources; well as the article was getting longer, discouraging a rapid review, I used that time to be thorough in the project (using my novice techniques all the while), and created what you found, probably having gotten carried away in the process, and certainly never sure if the work would pay off.

Thanks so much for your patient help. I'm pleased, not so much for myself, but for my subject, whose years hard work (IMO) was notable, especially relative to many who are already in Misplaced Pages, and deserving of representation. Will "see" you I guess! Keithramone33 (talk) 02:42, 8 August 2014 (UTC)Keithramone33

Gossiping and Synth on Sangh Parivar

Also see the talk page. "saffron terrorist" is clearly fake term and it was a edit of a sock, vanamonde93 continues to recover it and edit war. But none of the sources back this term. Same with some other information but this one is major. Bladesmulti (talk) 15:47, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Will have to wait, B. My modem has just bust and I'm low on my mobile broadband data allowance - what I've got, I need to use to find a new modem. - Sitush (talk) 15:52, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Pingali Venkayya

Dad and Titodutta. Pingali Venkayya has been the subject of alot of vandalism over the past few weeks. I just put a one-month protection on the page. But, there may be vandalism that has gotten thru. Could you take a check. If you combine both of your internet connections, you might get a 300 baud modem. Tito, as you see I now have a WikiWife and WikiDad. The position of WikiMistress is still open. Bgwhite (talk) 22:04, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

• Namaste Sitush Sir and hello Bgwhite. Sitush Sir, this direct mention has given an opportunity to write here. I first want to inform you, although I have been very inactive in Misplaced Pages these days, I have been following (more or less) the recent conflicts you have gone through, including Mr. Wales' comments. When you wrote "Am I going to become mad?" (above), I felt ". . . that too, for free. . .".
  I have added the article Pingali Venkayya in my watchlist. I have read the article (I have not checked the source). The "Career" section is peculiarly written, first the person becomes an expert of diamond mining, then he takes a railway guard's job, then he goes to college! I have also checked the recent non-constructive edits. Those are meaningless disruptions. Thank you. --Tito☸Dutta 22:51, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

• It was a mess of copyright violations, blogspot rubbish, apparent fiction and inconsistency. As The Hindu says, the guy is largely forgotten and there isn't much out there about him that isn't an obvious mirror of one version of our article or another. - Sitush (talk) 09:47, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

• Thank you both. I always wondered what the circle doohickey in the flag was and what it was for. I found it fascinating that Venkayya and Betsy Ross were alot alike, except Ross hasn't been forgotten. Both made minor changes, more made up information about them than real facts and both lives went terribly downhill after "creating" the flag. Bgwhite (talk) 01:09, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
• You are welcome @Bgwhite. I am glad that I could contribute a bit. Tito☸Dutta 18:34, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

BNA

I followed up on access to the BNA and might edit here less frequently as 100 year old newspapers are so much more interesting than today's. If my edit count goes down I blame you :) I'd never have applied if you hadn't mentioned it. J3Mrs (talk) 09:54, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm suffering from that problem also. - Sitush (talk) 11:36, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Some help

Please see this new article. I don't have knowledge about the subject. Almost unreferenced. Please take a look. Thanks, Jim Carter (from public cyber) 13:07, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Merging the 2 Indian caste system articles

How much longer do you have to wait?VictoriaGrayson (talk) 19:37, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Ideally, I'd like to see several people supporting a merge. Last time I looked, there was only the two of us. - Sitush (talk)

edits on Cheema article

You have just accused me on sockpuppetry on the Cheema article, I find this offensive. I was the one to insert a deletion tag on the article to have the article completely deleted, since the way you left it was after removing of content over the years has left the article which does not belong on an encylopedia. I will be requesting a sockpuppetry check, as well as arbitration on the article. I was happy to have the article deleted, but since digging a little deeper, I have found disturbing evidence. So, I a sure you will be more than happy to support the arbitration process. Syanaee (talk) 11:17, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

I asked a question. You were supporting the work of a prolific sockpuppet, LanguageXpert, both by reinstating their dreadful addition and with your comment on their talk page. (Experienced socks quite often will play two accounts in that manner). Happen it looks like you are not, given your response above. That's good news and I apologise if you have been upset.

We don't delete articles just because you do not like them. I really need to do another sweep of potential sources. - Sitush (talk) 11:22, 10 August 2014 (UTC)7

apology accepted, I went directly to the talk page. Issues still remain of a disturbing nature, where primilarly you have deleted sections of the article which have been well cited, I check them and I found those citations to be accurate namely: (An advanced history of India by Ramesh Chandra Majumdar; Hemchandra Raychaudhuri; Kalikinkar Datta: Macmillan. Sources from the Chachnama, 13/33/20-2.Mahabharata 13/33/20-2, Manusmiriti X.43-44, (Sindhi Culture, by U.T Thakur Bombay 1959), Diodorus in Mcgrindle, p 370 p. 270; History of Civilizations of Central Asia, 1999, (Glossary of the tribes and castes of the Punjab and NWFP, H A Rose), Chowduri, J. (2012). Caste system, social inequalities and reservation policy in india: Class, caste, social policy and governance through social justice. LAP LAMBERT Academic Publishing. These are unexplained removal of cited content, of well cited Indian academic literature. Furthermore, I did not want the article deleted due to me no liking it, this is the second time now you have used baiting tactics, I wanted the page deleted since it only had 1 line of text after your sustained removal of cited content, and therefore did not meet the notability criteria of an encyclopedic article. Please refrain from making contentious comments towards me, this is your first warning.Syanaee (talk) 12:23, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

I didn't do stuff unilaterally - you will notice other people supporting my removals back then on the talk page. Sources from the British Raj period are generally not reliable and this has been confirmed from time to time at our reliable sources noticeboard. Neither are ancient religious texts considered to be reliable. Of the remainder, there were various reasons for removal and I would have to trawl through the history to determine them. I'm not usually wrong, though, when it comes to sources for caste-related articles. The Chowduri one doesn't ring a bell but people have had ample opportunity to provide quotations etc from it and never did so. I'll take another look at that one, certainly, but I think it will be a library job unless you have a copy. - Sitush (talk) 12:36, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

@Syanaee: I've worked out why the Chowduri book went. See VDM Publishing. - Sitush (talk) 13:01, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Hey Sit, just popped over to say thanks for reverting Nangparbats usual nonsense on my talk page. The user complaining here is obviously a sock, my money would be on Zordanlighter. Darkness Shines (talk) 12:30, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

No probs re: revert. I'm taking Syanaee at face value. - Sitush (talk) 12:36, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Can you start an arbitration, sockpuppet check, I don't appreciate these false accusations against me. This is becoming completely silly. It's an excelopedia not a platform for historical revisionism by some members such he Hkeler, and the likes of Street_Scholar. Syanaee (talk) 13:03, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Why are such articles accepted on Raj era sources: I will be requesting an abbitration just to clear the air. Just to make sure there isn't any historical revisionism going on. Possibly sometime this week. As I gather all the evidace and review all of your other edits too. Hope you will support me in helping to improve these tribal articles. Syanaee (talk) 14:06, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Please consider the spirit of WP:OSE and WP:DEADLINE. I'll find you a link to the most recent discussion at the reliable sources noticeboard soon. You're not going to get your way, Syanaee, sorry: I've been dealing with this stuff, and with people such as yourself who think differently, for years here. I've been taken to WP:DRN, WP:ANI and practically every other venue that might be classified as "arbitration" in the sense that you mean and it's never changed the outcome. Not because I am infallible but because the community generally thinks the same as me and we operate here on the basis of consensus. - Sitush (talk) 14:13, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Here's one. - Sitush (talk) 14:16, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm not asking to get my way, this is the 3rd time you've misconstrued what I've said. I am not doubting your claim on the raj sources, there does not seem to be any uniformity in one article you've edited you've cleared allowed Raj era sources to go unchallenged, yet on another article you've removed those sources, and reverted the article. I have said the article as it stands does not serve as an encyclopedic entry. Also don't let your air of arrogance be your own fall. I think we should also request a sockpuppetry check. On both our accounts. The arbitration request will be filed, I am going to call your bluff so to speak. You've insulted me on a number of occasions, accused me of sockpuppetry without a shred of evidence. Syanaee (talk) 14:25, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Good luck with that. I can think of better ways to spend my time. - Sitush (talk) 14:28, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

I agree with your opinion on Pashtuns and Afghans

But to be honest, the reason i edit articles to Pashtun is mainly because people can better understand to whom the article is related to. In Saddozai article, Durrani empire is better choice as comapred to Afghan dynasty as most people know about durrani empire but mainly afghan nationalist change these articles on regular basis. even the Afghan dynasty is referring to Durrani empire if you click on it. I would appreciate if you could use durrani instead of Afghan. Thankyou SitushSaladin1987 13:25, 10 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Saladin1987 (talk • contribs)

Generally speaking, we have to follow the sources. An exception might be, for example, preferring to use "Hindu" rather than the archaic "Hindoo" but, even then, if the statement is a quotation then we need really to stick to the source. I did a bit of research on the Sadozai last night and hope to do more because that article needs work. - Sitush (talk) 13:36, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:FindMyPast

I saw you're one of the names who signed up for FindMyPast, and I'm just curious, have you heard anything back about that yet? I wasn't sure if they were giving out the accounts immediately or they were waiting for 50 people to sign up or something. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 16:14, 10 August 2014 (UTC) (also have signed up)

I've heard nothing but am sure it will sort itself out. @Sadads: has been doing a lot of different WikiLibrary stuff of late and you might notice that the landing page for FMP contains stuff relating to one of their other Library projects, ie: British Newspaper Archive. It looks like they copy/pasted and got waylaid before being able to fettle it. Sadads is quite probably in London at the moment but you could always drop a line on the FMP talk page if he doesn't respond to the ping here. - Sitush (talk) 16:19, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh, well if no one else has gotten it yet then I'm not worried. :-) Thanks for answering. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 16:41, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Hey @All Hallow's Wraith: I have yet to process those, they are on my todo for this week. I was waiting for a confirmation from FMP on what I needed to collect. I am contractor with the Misplaced Pages Library (hence the amount of activity), and am juggling a lot since Ocaasi is taking a couple week vacation w/ Wikimania. Soon we will have some trained volunteer coordinators that should make some of these processes go a bit quicker :P Sadads (talk) 15:26, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Arbitration case request declined

An arbitration case request in which you were named as a party has been declined by the Arbitration Committee. The arbitrators views on hearing this matter, found here, may be useful. For the arbitration committee, --S Philbrick(Talk) 15:14, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Quack, quack?

--NeilN 17:22, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Self-admitted SPI or 3RR or...? --NeilN 17:24, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm trying to find a CU online so I can dump the following:

Any connection between the single edit of Aapkalodu (talk · contribs) and the efforts of User:Devagyarishi238, both of whom are doing the same stuff at Varna (Hinduism) despite the issues raised at Talk:Varna_(Hinduism)#Varna_System_from_Bhagwat_Gita by three different, experienced contributors.

- Sitush (talk) 17:25, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Just find an admin and point them to this thread. The self-admission = block. No need to clog up SPI or AN3. - Sitush (talk) 17:26, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

NeilN, Thank you for calling the admin hot-line. All our admins are currently busy by abusing their powers. The estimated wait time is 93 days. If the call requires admin abuse, please press 0 or leave a message at Sitush's talk page, our leader of abuse.

<beep>

Thank you for pressing 0. We actually don't care, but we must fake niceties. Press 1 for a block. Press 2 for Sitush or Eric Corbett to insult a user, now with extra cun&. Press 3 to have a user's edits all reverted.

<beep>

Thank you for pressing whatever number. You have now annoyed the admins by thinking they give a crap about your petty problems. You will now be blocked.

<click>

Kinda like playing Russian roulette... --NeilN 02:35, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Articles being created by a non-English user.

I have a feeling you've dealt with non-English editors trying to create articles.

Thanks to the protection nepristupačnog the Cvrcke, Većići are the longest in northern Bosnia, the international unbalanced attacks by Serbian forces (including the air!), and then, with the huge sacrifices made by the free territories of Travnik.

My favourite, Out of it comes out in a field funnily just before Večići

If you can't guess, the article is about a river. I've asked them to stop and contribute to their native language Misplaced Pages. Someone who speaks Bosnian has tried to get thru with them. They are writing new articles on the Bosnian Misplaced Pages, using Google translate, copying the output here and then being reverted on the Bosnian site. Any suggestions? Bgwhite (talk) 07:30, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

@Hoary:, thanks for that. @Bgwhite:, WP:CIR unfortunately. If this is a pattern and they're not listening then they'll have to be forcibly prevented from contributing. I mean, if the Bosnian WP is reverting their native language stuff then presumably even if it did make sense in English, it has some sort of other problem(s). A timesink is a timesink in any language. Just trying {{ping}} and {{reply}} to see if there is any difference - but I guess I may never know without reading the documentation. - Sitush (talk) 08:46, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Besides ping and reply, there is the ever popular {{yo}}. Sometimes, a template redirect is not a good thing. Bgwhite (talk) 08:53, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh, sheesh! That one's for the Facebook aficionados. Although I suppose it does have the advantage of brevity when written, I've always tended to ignore people who "yo" me in real life - it just seems a bit intrusive to me. Perhaps that is because they always seem to shout it. - Sitush (talk) 08:59, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Explanation

I wanted to tell You that I have adapted article Večići. The earlier bugs are of technical nature. Why can I not edit the even application of the article?

Yahadzija (talk) 14:22, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

@Yahadzija: I'm sorry but I cannot see that article because it was deleted. My bet is that was because people could not understand what you were trying to say. Let me see if I can find some information about it and restart the thing. Then maybe you can add to it. But, really, your English skills seem not to be very good. I won't edit the Bosnian Misplaced Pages because I know that my Bosnian is useless; what people are saying to you is that your English, while better than my Bosnian, is simply impossible to understand. No-one means to insult you. Any Bosnian editor around who is willing to translate this? - Sitush (talk) 14:31, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

I cannot find an active Bosnian-speaking editor at the moment. I have created Večići for you. It would be nice to have a photograph of it but it cannot be one that is copyrighted. - Sitush (talk) 15:21, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks a lot

In my articles I try to talk about the events described in your references to Večići.

Yahadzija (talk) 16:06, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

@Yahadzija: No problem. I will leave you to add stuff for a while and then go back and clean it up. You have just added some census information - we will need a source for that. - Sitush (talk) 16:36, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

My vision - My mission

Last week I visited all of the sites I write about. All are still at issue. In a worse condition than my description. Trying to more people find out about their misfortune and injustice which they appear.

These are very beautiful landscapes. I feel a moral obligation to write about local peoples and the region in which they live. And on the conditions, of course! I am grateful to all who have helped me, and to You in particular. Another ridicule my confusion.

Yahadzija (talk) 21:05, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Wrong Grabovica cited

Thanks again a lot!!! In Bosnian masacres there are two same-nmed places of crime: Grabovica in Herzegovina (cited), and Grabovica in Bosnia (Kotor Varoš). I am going to edit some references for Bosnian.

Yahadzija (talk) 16:53, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

OK, I'm sorry about that. I should have actually read the link. - Sitush (talk) 16:56, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

@Yahadzija: you have just added a lot of Bosnian sources but I am not sure that they should be there. We prefer to use English-language sources on this particular Misplaced Pages. If you are going to use Bosnian ones then it really needs to be to verify something that cannot be verified in English ones. And you will almost certainly need to provide a very good translation, which I suspect you cannot do. - Sitush (talk) 17:07, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

MORE HONOR

Lol, so Jimbo is Klingon now? betafive 16:58, 12 August 2014 (UTC)