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Revision as of 16:14, 15 August 2014 editSandstein (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators188,255 edits →Result concerning Jaqeli: sanction← Previous edit Revision as of 16:15, 15 August 2014 edit undoSandstein (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators188,255 edits →Jaqeli: closedNext edit →
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==Jaqeli== ==Jaqeli==
{{hat|1=Jaqeli's topic ban is reinstated. Tiptoethrutheminefield is restricted to ] for three months. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 16:15, 15 August 2014 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> <small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


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*Unarchived to allow processing by admins. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 16:02, 15 August 2014 (UTC) *Unarchived to allow processing by admins. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 16:02, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
*When the previous topic ban from matters that relate both to Armenia and Georgia, I warned Jaqeli to "make sure to refrain from confrontational or otherwise disruptive editing in this topic area, such as edit-warring or assuming bad faith on the part of others." However, the evidence shows that Jaqeli did continuously edit war at {{la|Mesrop Mashtots}} and {{la|Georgian scripts}} since July. The topic ban is accordingly reinstated. <p>Because Tiptoethrutheminefield has also edit-warred with Jaqeli on the same articles, they are, for three months, restricted from making more than one revert (as defined at ]) per page in any 24 hour period with respect to pages that relate to the history of Armenia or Georgia. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 16:14, 15 August 2014 (UTC) *When the previous topic ban from matters that relate both to Armenia and Georgia, I warned Jaqeli to "make sure to refrain from confrontational or otherwise disruptive editing in this topic area, such as edit-warring or assuming bad faith on the part of others." However, the evidence shows that Jaqeli did continuously edit war at {{la|Mesrop Mashtots}} and {{la|Georgian scripts}} since July. The topic ban is accordingly reinstated. <p>Because Tiptoethrutheminefield has also edit-warred with Jaqeli on the same articles, they are, for three months, restricted from making more than one revert (as defined at ]) per page in any 24 hour period with respect to pages that relate to the history of Armenia or Georgia. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 16:14, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
{{hab}}

Revision as of 16:15, 15 August 2014

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    SW3 5DL

    SW3 5DL (talk · contribs) is blocked for one week. Zad68 14:32, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning SW3 5DL

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    MastCell (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 04:53, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    SW3 5DL (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Tea Party movement#Malke 2010 topic-banned
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    SW3 5DL (Malke 2010) was topic-banned from Tea-Party-related content because of battleground behavior and incivility. Those tendencies are on display in the topic-ban-violating posts, where she responds to reasonable, good-faith commentary from Tryptofish (talk · contribs) by saying: "If you are easily offended, especially where no offense was intended, then you'd best find another project... You appear to be trolling. It's just an RfC. Take a wikibreak." MastCell  04:53, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning SW3 5DL

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by SW3 5DL

    All Admins, N.B. Please do not base your decision on Collect's comments as it appears others have done. I'm not making any such argument as his. I do not in any way share or support his comment, and find it to be patently unfair to me that he would use this forum to express his views. Thank you. SW3 5DL (talk) 16:21, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

    Let me make this very clear. I understand why my edits to Donald Trump talk RfC violate the TPm topic ban. They violate the ban because the issue is the Tea Party movement and not a BLP sourcing issue which I believed it was at the time I made the edits. I realized that was the problem when Stephen Schulz said it was a violation. And also when Sandstein pointed out that the discussion on the talk page was about the Tea Party movement. That also made it very clear to me. I was looking at it all wrong. Let me also state, again, that I will never go near another talk page/article that even remotely mentions the Tea Party movement. And the reason is because to do so would violate the topic ban imposed by ArbCom in fall, 2013.

    I would appreciate it if Sandstein, Lord Roem, and EdJohnston, would reconsider their decisions. This was an honest mistake. The topic ban has been in place for a year, and there is no past history of violating the topic ban. Since I now fully understand the terms and conditions of the topic ban (which includes not even being able to mention TPm except to defend myself), there is no danger of future violations. Blocks are not meant to be punitive, they are meant to stop disruptive behaviour in the moment. There is no danger of that. A block now would be punitive.

    • @EDJohnston: Yes, I would and I would have done it myself but for fear of being accused of continuing to edit despite the AE complaint.
    • EDJohnston, I'll restore the comments and collapse them. Thanks.
    • Also, I'd like to point out, I'm not "prone to violating" my topic ban. It's been a year since the ban was imposed and I've not had any problems. There's absolutely no evidence I've violated the ban previously, and certainly I didn't do it here intentionally.
    • @Collect, I find your comments here entirely disruptive and violate policy because you are refusing to see the obvious violation here. Because the topic ban means I can't even discuss TPm, I can't bring a request at ArbCom to have your TPm topic ban reinstated. But hopefully, others who are not so encumbered will.
    • @Philbrick, yes, agree and I'm taking 'broadly construed' to mean all political questions/topics are to be avoided lest there be a cryptic reference somewhere.
    • @Bishonen, I'm sorry you feel I'm putting my violaton on MastCell. I'm not. Deleting MastCell's comment when there's been a history of abusive comments from him in the past, does not mean I knew right then that I'd made a violation. It means I thought he was harassing me. It would have been better to not delete his comments, but that is hindsight, and I can't go back and change the past. I'd also like to point out that you are confusing my reply to MastCell on Sandstein's talk page. I read MastCell's comments later, after I'd seen the admins comments here.
    • In addition, I've never denied that I've violated the topic ban. You seem to believe that because I deleted MastCell's comment without reading it, that's a denial. No, it isn't. It means I've had a lot of experience with MastCell. I've never denied this is a violation of the topic ban. I've admitted, I've stated I can see why it's a violation and I've stated I won't do it again. That's all I can do.
    • If I'd engaged with MastCell on my talk page and argued with him about it, then I'd say you have a point. You seem to be arguing that I can't ignore someone who has been abusive to me in the past.
    • @Sandstein, Does it seem right to give me a one week block simply because Bishonen is saying that it means they can't block me for a month "next time?" Have I violated the topic ban in the past year? I violate the topic ban this one time and I have to be blocked for what two admins, including Bishonen, have now called a 'minor violation' because Bishonen wants to block me for a month "next time?" Is there a diff of 'next time?'
    earlier comment by SW3 5DL

    I received a bot notice to comment on an RfC on Donald Trump. I read the RfC question which concerns whether or not Donald Trump should be included in a category "associated with the TPm." Sources were provided and the question was whether or not they were sufficient to include Trump in this category. It appeared to me that the sources were not sufficient. This isn't a TPm page or a TPm topic. It's a question on a BLP. Donald Trump is not part of the TPm in any capacity. If he were, I would not have commented. I am a good editor, I've made substantial contributions to WP, I've not violated any rules, and don't intend to.

    If I'd desired to skirt the topic ban, I could have done it on Dave Brat. Recently, the bot sent me a notice about him. I'd never heard of him. I went to the page and discovered he'd been a 'tea party candidate,' and gave it a miss.

    • @User:Sandstein, Stephan Schulz asked that I state I won't edit such a page again and I've stated that. My explanation above is meant to show my thinking at the time. It is not stating that I'm right. I'm not making any such argument. I've not stated that I don't see a problem. I've simply stated what my thinking was at the time and why I commented on the page in the first place. Especially in view of the complaint being brought by MastCell who bears no good will towards me. Now, two uninvolved admins have weighed in and said it's a violation. It wasn't intentional, it wasn't an attempt at avoiding a ban. It was an honest mistake. On the face of it, it appeared to be a BLP issue, not a TPm issue, and that's why I commented. Lesson learned on that one. Any mention of TPm is out. There's no need for a block in this case. And certainly as regards my user name, I had to change due to harassment. The name change was not done to avoid the topic ban and I even discussed the name change with an Arb from the case. So everything was above board there.

    @Admins: Tryptofish's comment is not representative (nor is MastCell's misleading selective quote from that exchange) and does not at all portray the exchange with her after I posted my comment. I will get diffs now and post them. Also, I didn't deny there was mention of the Tea Party movement, as anyone can see by my comments here and on the Donald Trump talk page.

    Here is the actual exchange with Trytopfish: Tryptofish makes a ‘reply’ to my iVote comment here that I didn't understand. It seemed to suggest that I’d somehow challenged her iVote, which I’d not done, which I explained here. And she persisted. I still didn’t get what the point of that was. It’s an RfC. You post your opinion and move on. So I made light of it. Tryptofish's next comment seemed circular, to keep things going without resolution, which is what trolling is. I then explained again my rationale for my ivote, and also stated I'd not intended any offense, and wouldn't be replying to her anymore since I considered her comments to be trolling.

    Of course, none of this is germane to the issue of my ivoting on the Donald Trump talk page. I find it confusing that Tryptofish thinks I'm denying that there was any TPm mention on the RfC. I think I've been clear about that, as has everyone else. I certainly do understand the topic ban. At the time, it seemed to me that the category itself was not the issue, it was whether or not the sources could place Donald Trump in that category. I was thinking, 'sourcing a BLP.' Nothing more. No topic ban evasion intended, no name change to facilitate a topic ban evasion, an Arb is well aware of the name change, etc. My old user name was Malke2010. That is not my user name anymore. I've only one account, I've only ever had one account. Now that I'm aware that any mention of the TPm is suffice to cause a problem, I will simply avoid any page with any mention of it.

    Also, note the actual question on the RfC was "Are the sources (and there follows a list of sources) sufficient to label Trump in the possibly contentious category 'People associated with the Tea Party movement?'"

    @Lord Roem, You seem to be responding to Collect's comments and not mine. I'm not making any of Collect's arguments. I'm presenting what my thinking was at the time. I've clearly stated above that I understand now that it was wrong to take up the RfC request. And I'd like to point out that I only commented on the RfC request and not any where else on that talk page.

    Statement by Collect

    Note: The Category which is at the heart of this dispute is currently at CfD - with a proposal to tighten the criteria for inclusion. The proposed criteria would almost certainly exclude Trump from the category. Where a category is removed from a BLP, I suggest that the nature of its connection with a specific topic is likely to have been a tad marginal. Collect (talk) 00:08, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


    The following are observations by Collect, and are not in any way to be interpreted otherwise.

    IMHO, the infraction is of a minor nature as the Trump BLP was not connected in any way whatsoever with the TPm until 25 Jun 2014 when edits were made trying to connect Trump with the TPm. Again, IMHO, the sources did not and do not support the claims being made - AFAICT, if we assert anyone speaking before any audience which contains TPm members is therefore "associated" with the TPm, we are using the old McCarthyite system of "associating" people with groups with which the "association" is incidental at best. To that extent, I regard this as a BLP issue and not a TPm issue. The editor avers they will not edit on any future issues which even mention the TPm en passant, which is the case at hand, and so the "capital offense" position is, IMHO, unwarranted. Collect (talk) 17:32, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

    Those who seem to attribute my comments to the person who is the subject of this action are errant.


    This case is akin to cases about LvM etc. The issue devolves on whether Donald Trump is actually "associated with the Tea Party movement" or not - which is a WP:BLP issue. The material is found in a single sentence in the BLP and in a category attached to the person.


    I consider the categorization of a person with a contentious group to be a contentious claim under WP:BLP.

    The primary source for the claim of membership in the TPm inth case at hand is a pseudo-quote in a headline in a reliable source. This has been discussed at length at Wikipedia_talk:Identifying_reliable_sources#Add_something_about_never_using_headlines_as_sources.3F where the discussionabut exactly whether a headline is reliable for claims has the OP here stating that the headline is absolutely as reliable as the article in the newspaper - a position on which I demurred based on numerous sources stating that headlines are written by copyeditors and nt by the journalist writing the article, and that they contain "pseudo-quotes" Where pseudo-quotes are the basis for linking a person to the TPm, I suggest that discussions thereon do not run afoul of the topic bans, just as it was decided that mere mention of the LvM in a BLP did not make those BLPs subject to the topic ban. I would note that Dick Cheney was also one listed as "associated" with the TPm - where the "pseudo-quotes" were not in any way borne out by the RS content, and where assertion that such contentious categorization places a BLP into topic ban category stretches the bungee cord to the breaking point. In fact, I have decategorized a number of BLPs where not a scintilla of mention of the Tea Party movement was found in the BLPs at all, and that the Trump "association" was added on 25 June 2014, which suggests that the Donald Trump article had nothing substantial to do with the Tea Party movement in any way until a person added it as a claim a month ago.

    Remaining is commented out by request.

    @StSch - yeppers -- calling a post made in good faith by another editor "nitpicking nonsense" sure shows WP:AGF in action. Collect (talk) 20:22, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Tryptofish

    When SW3 5DL showed up at the RfC discussion, I had no idea who this editor was, not realizing that this was the same person previously topic-banned under another username. After the personal attack on me, quoted above by MastCell, I figured that this was just someone to ignore, and let it pass. However, after realizing now that there is an existing sanction, let me point out some specific diffs to demonstrate that this editor was aware all along that they were commenting about the Tea Party movement. Here: , SW3 5DL explicitly states that they examined an analysis by Collect, and in the post that makes unprovoked and bizarre statements about me, there is also a repeat of the statement that this analysis was closely examined: "I examined the sources posted by Collect at the start of the RfC." (near the bottom of the diff). Now, here is that post by Collect: . Look at how prominent the words "Tea Party" are in that analysis. Someone examining the sources posted there cannot help but to notice that the material concerns the Tea Party. And, based on the attitude displayed by this editor during the discussion, I can easily see how this user would have been sanctioned. There is no question in my mind that these edits constitute a conscious topic-ban violation, if "the Tea Party movement, broadly construed" is the topic. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:03, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

    collapsing older comments
    I see now that SWS 5DL is planning to provide diffs about our interaction. No, I was not, and am not, a troll, but that has nothing to do with the terms of the topic ban. But it may well have a lot to do with whether or not the user understands that topic ban. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:26, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
    Following up on what I said, aside from not understanding what a troll is, or, more importantly, how discussions on Misplaced Pages involve editors discussing their positions with one another, I think the administrators here need to evaluate this question: Is it credible to argue that, if the answer to the question "should Donald Trump be described as associated with the Tea Party movement?" is "no", then answering that question has nothing to do with "the Tea Party movement, broadly construed"? It is obvious that it does, and the incredible claim to the contrary raises doubts about the credibility of promises to stay away from any mention in the future. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:43, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

    If we are now evaluating SWS 5DL's promises to abide by the terms of the topic ban, then I think it appropriate to ask whether they might want to reconsider anything that they said here: (bottom part), and any of their commentary about it in the now-collapsed statement here at AE. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:56, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

    Is the reply? --Tryptofish (talk) 22:53, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

    @MastCell: You are being neither selfish nor cranky nor incorrect. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:32, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

    Seeing what SWS 5DL has said here most recently, I am uncomfortable with the claim that she really does "get it" now. "Since I now fully understand the terms and conditions of the topic ban (which includes not even being able to mention TPm except to defend myself), there is no danger of future violations." . The talk page comments that got her here went well beyond "not even.. mention"ing – into analyzing in some detail sources that were centrally about the role of the TPm in the page subject. There is no indication that she understands that MastCell's warning was anything other than "trolling", or that her interactions with me were disruptive. I think that administrators here are being played. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

    Likewise, "I'd simply gone straight to the RfC discussion section, thinking BLP sourcing." , and "It was not obvious to me that it was more than a BLP issue" , are contradicted by the first two diffs in my original statement here. --Tryptofish (talk) 17:59, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

    @S Philbrick and other admins: If we go with S Philbrick's proposal of no block now, but a one-year block following any re-occurrence, can we also agree to strike SWS 5DL's comments at Talk:Donald Trump? --Tryptofish (talk) 18:57, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

    • About Collect's new post here, saying that the TPm category is being discussed, I started that discussion and am hopeful that it will resolve the content dispute. However, it is obvious that SWS 5DL could not have known that I would do this, when she entered the discussion. Should the decision be that the category does not apply to Trump, that still has zero bearing on the fact that the discussion was about the TPm. And, by the way, Bishonen is right. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:26, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

    @Admins: I'm closely watching the discussion, and let me offer these suggestions. You have to decide whether SWS 5DL "gets it" now or not. If not, a 1-week block would not be particularly effective, so the block would probably need to be 1 month (the maximum possible). The other option is a warning now, that another violation will result in a 1-month block. Those are basically your two options. (In either case, the comments at the Trump talk page need to be stricken.) --Tryptofish (talk) 18:59, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

    @Ed Johnston: What I said about a 1-week versus 1-month block is based upon S Philbrick's reasoning, with which I agree on that point. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:21, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by MastCell (filing party)

    A couple of follow-up comments: first, if SW3 5DL doesn't have the judgement to recognize that her topic ban forbids posting to a thread entitled "people associated with the Tea Party movement", then what value can be attached to her promise not to violate her topic ban in the future?

    Secondly, when I raised this obvious violation on SW3 5DL's talkapge, she deleted my post with an edit summary reading "rmv trolling", and kept right on posting to the Tea Party thread. In other words, SW3 5DL's response to a valid concern was not to honestly consider whether she'd violated her topic ban, but rather to respond combatively based on her personal animosity toward me. In this context, why should we expect the self-awareness necessary to avoid future violations?

    Third, the link between SW3 5DL and Malke 2010 is nowhere mentioned on her userpage that I can see. I think it's inappropriate for an editor under an active ArbCom sanction to be editing under a new username without some clear link to her previous username. It places other editors at a huge disadvantage; had I not made the connection, she'd still be violating her topic ban as we speak. I'd ask that Malke/SW3 place a note on her current userpage mentioning her previous username, particularly since she seems prone to violating her topic ban.

    Finally, I realize I'm being selfish and cranky here, but I'm getting old in wiki-years and I'm tired of having my time wasted. A number of editors (including myself and Tryptofish) have had to waste a lot of time dealing with this blatant topic-ban violation, which SW3 5DL refused to even acknowledge until compelled to. Likewise, she's managed to derail an otherwise potentially productive talkpage thread. Presumably the entire point of the topic ban was to prevent SW3 5DL from wasting other editors' time and derailing talkpage threads. What reason does anyone have to believe that this sort of time-wasting won't happen again, promises to the contrary notwithstanding? MastCell  04:59, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

    One final request, before this thread is closed. When I raised this obvious topic-ban violation with SW3 5DL, she deleted my warning without so much as reading it, because of her deep personal animosity toward me. In the interest of avoiding future time-wasting exercises like this one, I would ask that SW3 5DL be instructed to not to summarily dismiss concerns about future topic-ban violations, regardless of how much she hates the editor raising them. MastCell  20:25, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by R F

    I think that there is no need to strive officiously to enforce this by a block, given that the behaviour is an edge case, and the editor states that they understand this type of action can fall within "broadly construed".

    A block would achieve precisely nothing.

    All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 12:20, 6 August 2014 (UTC).

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning SW3 5DL

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    The request template asks for diffs, but there aren't any in this request. Without dated diffs of the specific edits thought to violate the topic ban, there's nothing to do here.  Sandstein  10:44, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

    Actually, there is this diff, this diff, and this link that shows several edits by the user. So the technicalities have been fulfilled (quite apart from WP:BURO). I agree that this is a technical violation. It also is a minor violation - I'd be happy with a statement by User: SW3 5DL that (s)he understands the issue and will refrain from commenting in such situations in the future. I'm a bit baffled why Collect thinks it is useful or appropriate to reiterate his position on the content issue here - that is not even under discussion. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 11:48, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
    @Collect: Sorry, but that argument is nitpicking nonsense. Trump may or may not be connected to the TPM. But the discussion if he is connected or not certainly is related, especially if "broadly construed". --Stephan Schulz (talk) 12:28, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

    The diff provided by Stephan Schulz shows that SW3 5DL has made edits to a discussion about whether or not Donald Trump should be categorized as "People associated with the Tea Party movement". SW3 5DL does not contest that they are Malke 2010, who has been "topic-banned from all pages relating to the Tea Party movement, broadly construed". The talk page was a page relating to the Tea Party movement because it contains the discussion mentioned above. SW3 5DL has therefore violated their topic ban. SW3 5DL's response indicates that they do not acknowledge this. Their brief response to Stephan Schulz does not persuade me that they really understand the meaning of the ban and that they would behave differently in the future. A block therefore appears to be necessary to prevent SW3 5DL from violating the topic ban further. I recommend imposing a one-week block.  Sandstein  14:00, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

    Small correction: The diffs I listed above were from MastCell's original request. I just reiterated them. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:33, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

    I am in complete agreement with Sandstein here. I think Collect's argument about the scope of the restriction is overly formalistic. The point of the sanction is to remove the editor's involvement with an area where they have been disruptive. To say that the article didn't fall under the category, despite the discussion on the talk page clearly being about the Tea Party, removes the teeth from the restriction completely. This isn't the case of an editor commenting on a completely benign issue that tangentially relates to the restricted topic (e.g., a restriction on Scientology articles for an editor who then discusses some other issue on the talk page of a completely un-related religion article that mentions Scientology briefly). Instead, we have a discussion precisely within the scope of the restriction, that the editor participated in, who then refused to accept the connection. I support a one-week block. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 21:32, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

    Agree with User:Sandstein and User:Lord Roem that a one-week block is needed. The topic ban obviously applies. This is not even a grey area. In my view SW3 5DL could have avoided a sanction if they made clear that they understood the problem and wouldn't do it again, but it seems that they don't understand why their edits violate the ban. EdJohnston (talk) 02:51, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

    SW3 5DL has pointed out that I might have been confusing his statements with those of Collect. He says that he has agreed not to repeat this. SW3 5DL, are you OK with having your own comments struck out from Talk:Donald Trump? I would also appreciate it if you would restore your own edit to AE because others may have already responded to what you said. You can put it in a collapse box if you want. EdJohnston (talk) 03:49, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

    I'll agree with Sandstein and Lord Roem that this constituted a violation and disagree with Collect that it qualified as an exception under BLP. The point of a topic ban is a decision that the editor is not trusted to edit in a certain area. While one can imagine BLP violation occurring in the area, we have in essence said, we do not want this editor making that call. The editor knows there are other ways to ensure attention to the issue other than actually making the edit. However, I do not support the one-week block. The editor either (now) gets it, in which case no block is needed (assuming we do not do punitive blocks) or does not get it, in which case a much longer block is warranted. My recommendation is no block now, with the understanding that a subsequent incident will generate a request (from me) for a year long blockthe maximum possible block. Editor should understand that broadly construed should be taken literally, and if there is any question, the right thing to do is point out the incident to someone else to handle.--S Philbrick(Talk) 15:55, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

    • I agree with User:Sphilbrick's judgment on the violation at Talk:Donald Trump and would allow the complaint against SW3 5DL to be closed with no block. To clean up the violation, all of SW3 5DL's comments that are tea-party-related at Talk:Donald Trump should be struck out. My assumption is that if SW3 5DL shows by their future behavior that they are unable to stay away from TPM issues that the result could be different next time. EdJohnston (talk) 19:02, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
    • Sphilbrick's approach, recommending no block now but a one-year block in case of subsequent violation, won't work, as Callanecc points out. If they're merely warned now, it can't be more than a month next time. Sandstein, Lord Roem and User:EdJohnston may want to indicate if they agree with SPhilbrick's recommendation all the same.
    For me that's a minor point, though; regardless of the matter of the length of a subsequent block, I recommend a block now. The topic ban violations (posting to a thread entitled "people associated with the Tea Party movement", which, as MastCell says, shows poor judgement in itself) were not major. But the excuse made for them — not "fully understanding the terms and conditions" of an indefinite topic ban "from all pages relating to the Tea Party movement, broadly construed" — is weak. It becomes weaker still when the user ignores MastCell's concerns, which were voiced simultaneously on Talk:Donald Trump and in a civil note on SW3 5DL's own talkpage, with the edit summary "Violation of your topic ban". SW3 5DL removes this with a rudely dismissive edit summary and continues to argue on Talk:Donald Trump. Why? I'm extremely unimpressed by the user's explanation/excuse above: that "communication is a two-way affair" with a link to an edit they've made on Sandstein's page, where they'd explained that they hadn't even read MastCell's note (with its clear edit summary) before removing it. I confess I blinked when I saw that offered as an excuse. But apparently MastCell's "attitude" and "hectoring tone" in a comment on Sandstein's page (here) were part of the reason for the dismissive removal of his concerns, even though that removal took place a couple of days earlier. Trying to put their behavior on MastCell's "attitude" is just… I don't know how to put it. I've already said I'm unimpressed. There was little excuse for violating the ban, and no excuse at all for responding with an attack ("trolling") to civilly expressed concerns about it. A warning seems insufficient to me. The original topic ban was presumably placed because a battleground attitude does waste the time and efforts of other users, and here we go again. If SW3 5DL had responded reasonably to MastCell's reasonable concerns — taken them onboard — there would have been no need to waste further time at this board. Bishonen | talk 23:34, 8 August 2014 (UTC).

    Closing comments: Sphilbrick's warning recommendation turned out to be impracticable per Bishonen's comments. Both Sandstein and EdJohnston, who were in favor of the warning proposal, switched their !vote based on Bish's observation. Others in favor of the warning proposal were ping'd and they did not respond. So the arguments of those supporting Sphilbrick's warning proposal needed to be discarded. AE discussions are not supposed to drag on for a long time, the very purpose of the AE board is to limit the expenditure of limited admin resources on contentious areas. It had been two days since the last argument was made, and the warning !votes did not receive follow-up counter-arguments, so the result was a clear consensus for a 1-week block. Zad68 15:23, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

    Wickey-nl

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Wickey-nl

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Shrike (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:54, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Wickey-nl (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA :
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 6 August 2014 Accusing other member of being sock-puppet clearly breach of WP:NPA
    2. 1 August 2014 Referring to Israel as "Jewish Ethnocracy" and violation of WP:NOTFORUM
    3. 24 July 2014 Violation of WP:NPA by saying that other user "don't understand" what he is writing about
    4. 24 July 2014 Restoring WP:COPYVIO from BBC source
    5. 18 July 2014‎ While describing his edit as " Copyedit (major)". He inserted a new information e.g he sourced this fact "The ruling also did not oblige the Government to register the settler’s rights." to advocacy organisation Peace Now without properly attributing it.
    6. 16 July Another violation of WP:NPA.


    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. 18 June 2014 The user was blocked for violating 1RR per this report at WP:ANEW


    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)


    • Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 13 August 2013
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Its clear that user violations of WP:NPA, bad edits like restoration of WP:COPYVIO, false edit summaries and not properly attributing advocacy organisations clearly shows that user came here not to edit in neutral way.

    Kingsindian It really doesn't matter who put it in the first place every one is responsible for their own edit and it doesn't matter if it revert or something else.There was more problems with this edit that its cherry-picking the source to present only one piece of information though it discuss the issue at large.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 03:57, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

    @@Bbb23 and Sandstein: Even in this AE thread the user continue his violation of WP:NPA by calling other users "hasbara activists" and their "mates". I must agree with Robert McClenon on this regard some admin action is need to stop the disruption.--Shrike (talk)/WP:RX 15:31, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Wickey-nl

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Wickey-nl

    1. I am blocked once by an corrupt admin with a bizar interpretation of the 1RR. He blocked me on dubious ground. Moreover, he blocked me for an excessive period of 48 hours. Exceptional for a first block, on questionable ground.
    2. Both, User Shrike and User Brewcrewer abuse this page to make their points about the article Palestinian land laws, a quite complicated case.
    3. Under argument 5, Shrike comes with a futile complaint about the use of a standard edit summary.
    4. A typical example of impure discussing is in Brewcrewer's reaction below under argument 4, 2nd point, where he falsely accuses me of removing a source. Under the last point, he repeats the same trick.

    --Wickey-nl (talk) 09:27, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

    OK, I will comment on the untouched issues.
    • Apart from the fact that I think that it is absurd to regard the citation of a minor part of a source, an alinea, is copyright violation, it is plainly ridiculous to bring in this example, where the same alinea makes clear that is a citation from Al Mezan.
    • Regarding WP:NPA it is not without reason that the IP-conflict has its own WP rules. There is much manipulation, and the environment is heated. This should be weighted.
    There is more to say about the complaints regarding Brewcrewer.
    • I may give my opinion about an admin here, not? On my talk page I explained why I think EdJohnston is a corrupt admin was very wrong. About the bizar interpretation: this admin regards the editing of old sections, not disputed ones, as reverts.
    • While User Sandstein states that "The NPA and NOTFORUM concerns are, in my view, too slight, on their own, to warrant a sanction at this point", he pleads for a topic ban. I wonder what are its real motives.
    • --Wickey-nl (talk) 12:09, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

    @Bbb23

    • I understand your position about sock complaints. On the other hand you should understand that it is frustrating when there is a foul smell around POV editing and everyone can feel it is not kosher, but nothing can be proved.
    • That the block was very rightfully is your opinion, not a fact. And there was a very foul smell around it. Less than a handfull admins decide about the interpretation of the rules and I maintain that the current interpretation is questionable, and the rules are ineffective.

    --Wickey-nl (talk) 14:04, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

    @Bbb23: Wrong conclusion. While this is not the place to evaluate the system, I do not say that I will not take into account the reality of the existing dominant interpretations. I will do, I only say these interpretations are not obvious.

    Some are trapped by the use of a single word, not even present in the request of the submitter. I do not have evidence, so I should not have used the c-word, and I striked it out.

    Having said that, I view the threatening with a topic ban inconsistent with the conclusion that the very submission of this complaint is poorly substantiated. You cannot simply say: the arguments filed by the submitter do not justify a sanction, but Wickey-nl is a problem, or even Wickey-nl "the competence required to edit productively and collaboratively in this topic area".

    Hasbara Pro-Israel activists invest much time in recruting their mates and expanding their network. I really do not believe that clear activists are welcoming newcomers just out of passion for the WP project. In theory, one can even welcome its own sockpuppet. It is easy to be civil, knowing you are supported by a hasbara structure that dominates Misplaced Pages. --Wickey-nl (talk) 10:23, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by (Kingsindian)

    As an editor involved in 2 of the 6 diffs above (number 3 and 4) directly, and one indirectly (number 1), perhaps I should say something. The good part: About diff 4, the copyvio was inserted by another editor, in the beginning, User:Shrike reverted it, and as a sort of compromise, I moved the essence of the edit to another section while keeping out the copyvio. User:Wickey-nl reverted me, I explained the edit and he did not revert it again., though he grumbled about it (diff 3). He explained that he thought I removed some reference to the BBC report, which I did not. The discussion afterwards was more or less civil. To be honest, I have a thick skin and did not mind the "you don't know what you're talking about" comment in diff 3. I understood the point he was making (though he was wrong in making the point, in my opinion). I did not find much disruptive editing.

    The bad part: Seems that User:Wickey-nl has a habit of accusing others as sock-puppets and other personal attacks, and has a very strong bias in his edits in the I/P area. I do also have my own bias (and rather in his direction), but I try to keep it under control (I hope with some success). With the recent events in I/P, tempers are inflamed everywhere. I do not know what WP policy is regarding these things (this is my first post to Noticeboard), but perhaps these are things to keep in mind. Kingsindian (talk) 18:47, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

    I would like to make a comment on the content part of the dispute. As I mentioned earlier, I do see a strong bias in the Wickey-nl's edits (which, it must be said, seems to be the norm rather than the exception in ARBPIA), many (not all) of Brewcrewer's criticisms at "Palestinian Land Laws" section are somewhat misdirected. There is a fundamental disagreement on the talk page about whether even the title "Palestinian Land Laws" make any sense, because there are few laws passed by Palestinian authority and many of the "land laws" are based on international law and old Jordanian law. This is the context of discussion where Wickey-nl removed some parts based on "not referring to land law" etc. I would not have made the edits he made, and nor left summaries like "replacing rubbish", but it was a content dispute, and not indicative of bad-faith. Kingsindian (talk) 17:30, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
    I am frankly puzzled by Sandstein's comment. Perhaps this is my own inexperience and the Rashomon effect. The copyright issue is trivial (and as I noted, was not even inserted by Wickey-nl, but by another editor). Since he rejects the WP:NPA and content issues, we are left with a prickly response by Wickey-nl on this page as evidence. Is this grounds for a topic ban? Kingsindian (talk) 03:50, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
    Battle rages every day in ARBPIA; prickly comments and more importantly, Civil POV pushing are the norm. I do not agree that there is any evidence of lack of competence or inability to work collaboratively presented. I agree, though, that the comments by Wickey-nl impugning the integrity of admins, (based on flimsy evidence) should not have been made. Do the sentiments expressed on this page trump all the edits made on actual wikipedia projects? One has to edit in the area to know if some person is capable of editing well and fairly. I have only been editing intensively in this area in the past month (due to the recent events) and I saw the battle plainly within a week. Kingsindian (talk) 20:34, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Brewcrewer

    Please review these additional diffs:

    1. 1RR violation - 1 & 2 Warning is ignored.
    2. 1RR violation (removes sourced information because in his opinion “polls are manipulative”)1 & 2. Ignores warning.
    3. Violates WP:NPA: “Try to jump over your shadow.”
    4. More recently Wickey-n1 exhibited problematic editing at Palestinian land laws, mostly by removing sources and sourced material on spurious grounds. The underlying motive appears to be POV pushing.
    • Removes category “fatwa” without explanation The article explicitly uses the term in the third paragraph of the Effect section wherein it clearly mentions a fatwa with a source.
    • In an edit marked as “minor” Wickey-nl removes a source supporting the name of the article with the edit summary “Ref is not specifically about land laws”. This is of course is not a valid reason to remove sourced content.
    • Removed the statement “The law carries a sentence of the death penalty" with the edit summary “Neither source mentions a particular Palestinian land law.” The first source Wickey-nl deleted "<ref name="Weiner" />" refers to this source and on page 22 it explicilty states the following: “In clear violation of these provisions, the Palestinian Land Law prescribes the death penalty to anyone selling land to Jews".
    • Wickey-nl unilaterally moves the article twice before finally settling on "Land ownership in the State of Palestine." The article was eventually moved back to the prior name after a request for admin intervention. At the talk page, Wickey-n1 stated that page must be moved because the source supporting the name was unsatisfactory. It was twice requested of Wickey-nl for the sources supporting their preferred name (1 & 2) but Wickey-nl failed to respond. This is the problematic POV behavior we have discussed at AE. An edit is make ostensibly on policy grounds, but when the policy does not suit the same editor’s political leanings, this policy is ignored.
    • makes mass changes to article claiming that the “Replace rubbish about non-existing laws with real source.” The edit replaces multiple reliable secondary sources with one primary source.
    • removes reliably sourced content (source) with edit summary that includes attack on author in source “Tendentious journalist writing” (the journalist is Khaled Abu Toameh, a BLP) and arguing that the journalist did not provide evidence.

    In summation, besides for the 1rr violations and personal attacks (mentioned in other reports), more importantly, Wickey-nl has exhibited a pattern of pov-pushing disguised as proper editing while not holding himself to the same standard he demands of others. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 04:06, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Zero

    This report is unusually weak.

    Sandstein identifies this edit as "problematic" and indeed it is. But it is just a commonplace mild copyvio that is easily fixed by some paraphrasing. This should have been done by Shrike instead of removing it wholesale, since it is obviously relevant and well sourced. Identifying this edit alone as sufficient cause for a topic ban seems extraordinary. (Problematic content suppressed instead of struck,  Sandstein  03:15, 11 August 2014 (UTC)) Zero 00:02, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

    @Sandstein: You wrote that I made "personal attacks" but in fact I made comments on editing behavior. Your words are a clear violation of WP:ASPERSIONS and I invite you to remove them. Zero 04:24, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

    Changed into "Problematic content".  Sandstein  16:59, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

    @Robert McClenon : As an administrator who sometimes blocks people, I expect that some of them will give me lip for it. But I think it is a right to be able to criticise an administrator's actions (within some generous limits) and administrators should be able to take it. Once we start blocking people for being angry when they are blocked, we will look like a bunch of power-freaks and community respect for administrators will plummet. Zero 14:29, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by IRISZOOM

    I can't see what makes this a case for sanctions as it looks like to be normal disagreements, except for the copyright issue which easily could have been fixed - even by Shrike instead of making a case of it. Regarding Wickey-nl's response here, I think one word or so is unacceptable but he seems upset over the 48h block mentioned in the same sentence. That wording shouldn't be used but I certainly don't agree that he can't collaborate with others, as I think he has proven it, like being very active in talk pages, and doing many improvements on articles. A topic ban would be very hard to understand. --IRISZOOM (talk) 06:19, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Nishidani

    I've disagreed with Wickey-nl in the past (I thought he could not spot an evident POV for example), but generally find that he is a very good wikipedian. Unlike most editors, he actually goes through pages diligently from top to bottom, expanding them significantly (see Beit HaShalom. Edit warriors can be identified easily. They don’t build pages (too much work) they tend to intervene to revert, or to add some succulent piece of information that tells against one side. They are morbidly interested in AE report: they appear to spend a lot of time watching selected editors’ contribs, and reporting people. I can't see anything, rather than the trivial BBC diff in Shrike's original report. This fits some profiles here: it does not strike me as appropriate to Wickey-nl. Brewcrewer's report is wrong from the outset (dragging up stale diffs, never reported at the time if they were believed to be serous, rather than content disputes):

    Brewcrewer is much taken by content disputes with wickey-nl at Palestinian land laws, where he had edited however only once recently, and over the years never, except recently, used the talk page as against 27 edits by the editor he is reporting. His edit was an egregious piece of POV slanting of the lead, ignoring the historical background in order to prioritize an ethnic sense of those laws, which are mirrored in Israeli law, being offensive.

    As a glance at the talk page will show, the whole article is a misnomer, the earlier drafts preferred by Brewcrewer showcased the article as evidence that Palestinian land laws are anti-Jewish/Israeli. I think that was one of the purposes of the article. The article gets great attention because of its I/P polemical value: compare the ignored, but parallel article Israeli land and property laws (Background . 93% of the land in Israel is state-owned land originally confiscated from Arabs and held in trust for the Jewish people: of the remaining 7% most is Arab-owned, but even there some is encumbered in a way that only allows the Arab vendor to sell it to Jews). Editors who jump at the Palestinian article to raise a spectre of offensive laws, quietly ignore the other article. NPOV requires we be serenely descriptive of the facts, and not focus on one article of a pair to push a POV. Third point. Yes, Wickey-nl is distressed at this report, you can see that by the unusual intensity of his grammar and spelling errors, which suggests to me he thought, the way things go in here, he's another goner. I don't think fishy reports should function to provoke upset language so that the evidence of being upset substitutes for the original evidence as grounds for conviction. Wickey-nl might well be told to exercise more care, but the original report was both frivolous and instrumental (attempting to remove an editor out of dislike, as is, sadly, often the case recently).Nishidani (talk) 10:45, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

    Wickey-nl. You should strike out both attacks on admins. Experienced users or readers of these pages will have memories of very strange judgements made even by admins that have near universal respect. I myself am deeply worried at the huge confusion over 1r and the way editwarriors are using this to hang editors, or rid wikipedia of otherwise excellent contributors (Sean hoyland's advice in your link shows how important his presence was in clarifying to editors like yourself where your judgement failed). In particular, in 8 years, hoping that this will not be read as brownnosing, I've never seen Ed Johnston do anything that could warrant doubts about his integrity or judgement for that matter. corrupt is a totally unacceptable misconstrual of what he does.Nishidani (talk) 12:57, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
    'unsuited to a collaborative project?' I have about a 1% agreement on edits with Brewcrewer and Shrike's edits, for example. Not for that do I think they, or myself are thereby 'unsuited' to a collaborative project. A large part of what defines an editor's suitability is related to her ability to actually introduce new material, rework articles, or build them, and usually this is rare, as opposed to the prevalence of kibitzing reverters and contribs daily checkers. Most constructive article building is, unfortunately, not 'collaborative'. It consists of lone editors developing articles by source research and control. The 'collaborative' bit comes when editors review or kibitz on bits and pieces of what you do. Both are needed, but one type of editor should not be unduly punished because his 'social' instincts are not up to his article construction powers.Nishidani (talk) 20:16, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
    To be honestly, I am completely unknown to the further activities of this admin. As pointed out below, the admin remained deafening silent on the subject. Unknown whether because of arrogance, tactic or for another reason. If he made an error, he apparently did not see so or did not want to admit. Until now, he also remained silent here. --Wickey-nl (talk) 10:58, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
    That's irrelevant, and you have abused the use of the word to the detriment of a fellow wikipedian's reputation. That, apart from your poor grammar, not evidenced in your articles, is the most telling thing against you, and you are reluctant to withdraw it. I make the mental equivalent to a Christian's sign of the cross everyday I open up a page of wikipedia. I find the repression of one's natural feelings and thoughts extremely hard, (I dislike thin-skinned people) esp. when there is so much bad faith or sheer dumb ignorance around. Take your comment on 'corrupt'. You use it to define the character of an admin pledged to neutrality, (as we are), doing unpaid labour (like us) but without the compensatory benefits of reading and writing something actually intrinsically interesting, on the basis that he has not replied to you. It's one of a thousand inferences, but reflects on you, not on the admin. Silence is not a cypher of moral or intellectual corruption (were it so, politicians, contrary to practice, would never be as glib as they are. As Keynes said 'their stupidity is inhumane') And, when an admin is attacked, he is not obliged to respond. To the contrary, by asserting that he is corrupt you place him or her in an uninvidious, indeed impossible position, because, if he comments on this complaint, the existence of your accusation contaminates his independence and neutrality by putting his judgement under pressure. Listen son, it costs nothing to be decent and retract. It's not a matter of honour, but good form.Nishidani (talk) 11:33, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
    Questioning an admin's decision is not an attack. Not responding is rather a show of weakness. With your concerns about "the use of the word" you commit a personal attack on me about my grammar. As soon as your use of Dutch is as good as my use of English you may criticise me for that. --Wickey-nl (talk) 12:16, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by Robert McClenon

    Wickey-nl was already advised to strike the reference to a "corrupt admin" and has not done so. Maybe Wickey-nl thinks that the Misplaced Pages admin system is inherently "corrupt" or otherwise abusive; that does not excuse a very strong personal attack on the integrity of an administrator. If there really is evidence of abuse of the admin privilege, let alone "corruption" in the use of the admin privilege, it should be taken to the ArbCom, rather than being used idly to poison discussion of disruptive editing in WP:ARBPIA. Recommend a block for the personal attack, without prejudice to whether a topic-ban is also in order. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:08, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

    When I raised the question at the Board, the admin remained deafening silent, refraining from any comment. Yet, this is the ultimate test whether or not the system is inherently corrupt. --Wickey-nl (talk) 10:43, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by EdJohnston

    At 18:27 on 16 June I left a message for Wickey-nl, pointing out a 3RR complaint about editing at Civilian casualty ratio. He was one of the people who had edited, he had seemingly made two reverts, and it would be in his interest to respond: At that time I hoped that he would make a conciliatory response and there would be no need for any follow-up on my part.

    Instead, at 11:24 on 17 June Wickey-nl added his own comment at the 3RR board, accusing User:Yarron and User:Brewcrewer of various things, but without mentioning the fact he'd been warned about 1RR himself. I considered this an inadequate response by someone who seemed to have made a 1RR violation.

    After this exchange (or non-exchange with Wickey-nl, since he didn't really respond) a different editor noticed I had warned Wickey-nl and filed a new 3RR complaint naming him for a 1RR violation, and linking to my warning: WP:AN3#User:Wickey-nl reported by User:JungerMan Chips Ahoy! (Result: 48 hours).

    I blocked Wickey-nl for the 1RR violation per this message on his talk page, at 01:30 on 18 June, i.e. giving him plenty of time for him to respond to the June 16 warning if he wanted to.

    Wickey-nl made an unblock request, stating

    "False allegation. Apparently, the hasbara campain on WP has become more active again. The fact that I, who never violated the rule before and never been blocked before, was blocked overnight, even depriving him from the possibility to defend himself on the noticeboard, shows the alarming condition of Misplaced Pages.--Wickey-nl (talk) 09:14, 18 June 2014 (UTC)".

    It was hard for me to reconcile this claim with my having notified him that he seemed to have broken 1RR at 18:27 on 16 June. Is it possible that he simply overlooked the warning? Certainly I didn't deprive him of 'the opportunity to defend himself.' Does his mention of 'hasbara' (a kind of propaganda effort by the Israeli government) intended to imply that admins are in league with that government?

    His unblock request timed out without an admin deciding on it because nobody accepted or declined it within 48 hours.

    After his block expired, Wickey-nl opened a a complaint about my actions at ANI on 20 June.

    "He de facto obstructed my unblock request by responding on the request, which suggested it being reviewed on the administrative backlog (reviews may only be done by another administrator). Info and links provided on my talk page"

    This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It is not unheard of for the blocking admin to leave a comment if someone makes an unblock request. This helps any reviewing admins come to their own conclusion as to whether the block was sound. Anyone may comment on an open unblock request. Wickey-nl has claimed that 'the system is inherently corrupt', in part due to my failure to comment on the ANI. I was out of town when he filed the ANI and it was inconvenient for me to get to a proper computer to make a response. User:Bbb23 wound up closing the ANI with no action on 21 June. He stated "This was a baseless report from the get-go and has not improved since...".

    In terms of the earlier background: Wickey-nl should be somewhat familiar with how the 3RR board works. A complaint was filed against him back in August 2013 by User:Number 57 for edit warring on Template:Palestinian elections. According to the submitter, he made four reverts. He was warring to keep some West Bank elections of 1972 and 1976 out of the list, asserting in his edit summary that they were 'fake elections.' At that time no block was issued; the article was protected instead by a different admin. EdJohnston (talk) 15:02, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

    Although I had preferred a factual reply on my explanation in June, or at least at the noticeboard, I am happy to explain. according to my interpretation, I did not violate the 1RR, so I did not see the need for action. Moreover, I thought I could not get a sanction in a case against another person (User Sean.hoyland). As there was no complaint against me at the time, I did not bother. On the other hand, I gave my response in support for User Sean.hoyland.
    A suspicious account, who indeed only made one sequence of edits on 17 June 2014, filed a case against me which I noticed only after the block. I did not have the possibility to defend myself. I don't see the relevance of "giving him plenty of time for him to respond to the June 16 warning" after the block.
    Furthermore I think it is not appropriate to remember a year old case, in which I indeed violated the 3RR out of frustration.--Wickey-nl (talk) 17:10, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

    Before making further comments, I see I have to correct a false attribution to me of the statement that 'the system is inherently corrupt'. Please keep the discussion honest. I did not say that. --Wickey-nl (talk) 09:26, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

    Result concerning Wickey-nl

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    The NPA and NOTFORUM concerns are, in my view, too slight, on their own, to warrant a sanction at this point. Diff no. 5 seems to be mainly a content issue. I have not evaluated Brewcrewer's diffs because they are undated and many seem to be relatively old. But the BBC copyright issue, Shrike's diff 4, is problematic. And Wickey-nl's response is so incoherent and confrontative that I doubt that they have the temperament and the competence required to edit productively and collaboratively in this topic area. I advise a topic ban.  Sandstein  18:22, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

    To clarify, my view is based mainly on the generally combative attitude exhibited by Wickey-nl here and in their edits, rather than mainly on the copyvio issue, although that does show an unacceptable lack of concern and/or competence in a very important area. The "corrupt admin" nonsense is mainly another indication of the editor's apparent temperamental unsuitedness to a collaborative project; although it is also a personal attack, I tend to agree with Zero in this regard.  Sandstein  16:57, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

    Of the six points mde by Shrike, only two bother me much, #1 and #2. It's not that he violated NOTAFORUM with #2 so much as it evinces bias. As to #1, I'm very tired of editors accusing other editors of being socks in the PIA area, in all fairness, Wiki-nl is not alone in this failing. It's not that they are wrong all the time. But if they have the evidence to prove it, then they should take it to SPI; otherwise, they should not make the accusation. The NPA allegations are close to worthless, and the copyvio is not a big enough deal to merit any sanction. As for the edit-warring claim, he was blocked (and very rightfully) for that, but he should not have to double-pay for his error. At the same time, it does disturb me that many editors who edit in this area don't understand - or at least say they don't understand - policy. It also bothers me that apparently as of June 19, he finally realized that 1RR may be violated if there are two reverts of different material, yet he went ahead and filed a report at ANI on June 20. That's pretty over-the-top. As for no one responding to his unblock request, this was a block per ARBPIA and can only be accepted by the blocking admin or by an appeal by the user, so it's not surprising that no one responded.

    The majority of the diffs by Brewcrewer are stale.

    I can't say this editor isn't a problem. He is, and his attitude here doesn't help him, but I would favor a stern warning to be followed by a topic ban if this kind of behavior continues. That said, it's a close call, and I'm interested in what other admins have to say.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:40, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

    @Wickey-nl: Your statements about the interpretation of the rules and the ineffectiveness of the rules is very troubling because it indicates to me that you can't abide by them. Frankly, that makes me lean more toward Sandstein's recommendation.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:51, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

    Jaqeli

    Jaqeli's topic ban is reinstated. Tiptoethrutheminefield is restricted to WP:1RR for three months.  Sandstein  16:15, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Jaqeli

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 20:09, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Jaqeli (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 31 July 2014 invalid removal of fact tag against the 430AD date.
    2. 6 August 2014 edit warring, invalid removal of fact tag, invalid edit summary (the cited sources do not say 430AD)
    3. 7 August 2014 edit warring, invalid removal of clarification required tag, invalid edit summary as before, refusal to address the points made to justify the tag, refusal to engage in talk page discussion.
    4. 8 August 2014 edit warring, invalid deletion of clarification required tag, invalid edit summary as before, refusal to address edit summary explanation. Refusal to engage in talk page, ignoring justification given for the tag's insertion.
    5. 9 August 2014 edit warring, invalid deletion of clarifiction tag, deletion of referenced content, insertion of content not supported by the references Jaqeli placed beside that content, refusal to engage in talk page discussion, invalid and uncivil edit summary.
    6. 7 August 2014 Talk page incivility, refusal to accept good faith, refusal to engage with an editor and address points he raised.
    7. 8 August 2014 Talk page incivility, display of battleground attitude, refusal to engage in discussion and address the points raised.
    8. 9 August 2014 Talk page incivility, extreme display of battleground attitude, a point-blank refusal to engage in discussion and address the issue raised (that the "dated 430AD" is different from "dates from circa 430AD").
    1. 3 July 2014 anon editor deletes content mentioning Mashtots connection to the Georgian alphabet. No edit explanation.
    2. 16 July 2014 Jaqeli restarts this edit warring by deleting content in an edit that is identical to the anon edits. Invalid edit summary explanation (the first of many "per Georgian scripts").
    3. 18 July 2014 edit warring, removal of referenced content, invalid edit summary, no talk page explanation.
    4. 31 July 2014 edit warring, removal of referenced content, no edit explanation, false claim to be reveting to a stable version, refusal to use talk page for explanation.
    5. 1 August 2014 edit warring, removal of referenced content, invalid explanation for edit, continued refusal to use talk page for explanation.
    6. 2 August 2014 edit warring, removal of referenced content, invalid explanation for edit, continued refusal to use talk page for explanation. Refusal to regard the edit summary of the edit he reverted.
    7. 3 August 2014 edit warring, removal of referenced content, invalid explanation for edit, continued refusal to use talk page for explanation, refusal to accept compromise edit.
    8. 16 July 2014 Talk page incivility: an aggressive, negative, battleground attitude from the outset, refusal from the outset to accept the good faith of editors who have worked on the article.
    9. 20 July 2014 Display of battleground attitude, talks about "sides", advocates a nationalistic approach to editing "I am totally for Georgian-Armenian co-operation on Misplaced Pages"
    10. 2 August 2014 Battleground attitude dismissal of sources that don't agree with his pov.
    11. 3 August 2014 Battleground attitude continues - refusal to use talk pages for explanation
    12. 4 August 2014 Battleground attitude again - refusal to engage in talk page discussion even when wikipedia guidance pages are cited.
    13. 5 August 2014 A point blank refusal to engage with editors in the talk page.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. NB: Jaqeli has blanked his talk page so I cannot get the diff for the original sanction notice . This one refers to a later topic ban enforced as a result of the original violation.
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The disruptive editing covers two articles. On Georgian scripts, the content says an inscription "is dated 430AD". The inscription in question is actually undated, and the cited sources actually say "dates from c430AD". I initially added fact tags for the "dated 430AD" claim, hoping for some sources, but Jaqeli repeatedly deleted the tags. He did the same for the clarification tags I then tried as an alternative. He ignored the reasons I gave for placing these tags. Faced with no sources for the "is dated 430AD" claim, I altered the text to read "has been dated to c430AD" as per the cited sources, but Jaqeli simply reverted to the incorrect version. I have repeatedly tried my best to explain to him that "dated 430AD" is quite different from "dates from c430AD" used by the sources. His only response has been reverts and incivility.

    On Mesrop Mashtots he has repeatedly deleted referenced content and repeatedly refused to discuss his edits in the article's talk page. All he does is repeatedly state "per Georgian scripts". It has been very carefully explained to him that this "per Georgian scripts" explanation is not valid: editors cannot use talk page content on one article as a reason for not properly justifying content removal on a completely different article. Editors have directed him to the Misplaced Pages pages giving this advice, but he seems incapable of taking that advice or realising he is in the wrong. Because of his actions and attitudes it is impossible to engage productively with Jaqeli.

    Jaqeli has been topic banned before. When the ban was lifted it was on the condition that he would not return to edit warring and assuming bad faith on the part of others. The diffs show he has broken that condition. They show he has also ignored his own assertion that he would, in future, "edit constructively, will not edit war and will discuss it in a calm and respectable manner".

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    notification

    Discussion concerning Jaqeli

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Jaqeli

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Jaqeli

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.