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:::::Also if that is redundant then it is redundant to credit them outside the band in the written credits, or as writers at all if they wrote one of the songs, I mean if we want to go down this ridiculous road as to what is "redundant" then if let us go all the way then if an artist is also credited as a writer and a producer on a song they should not be posted in the track listing at all. See how stupid it this redundancy claim is? It is no different then any other artist Jay possibly did some additional producing more then the band did in a whole or maybe he asked to be credited outside the band, did you ever think of that? Either way it is not anyone's place to remove it or make the page look stupid by posting wrongly but as I said if "redundancy" is the route that wants to be played then it needs to be played 100% not just in part. ] (]) 03:32, 2 June 2014 (UTC) :::::Also if that is redundant then it is redundant to credit them outside the band in the written credits, or as writers at all if they wrote one of the songs, I mean if we want to go down this ridiculous road as to what is "redundant" then if let us go all the way then if an artist is also credited as a writer and a producer on a song they should not be posted in the track listing at all. See how stupid it this redundancy claim is? It is no different then any other artist Jay possibly did some additional producing more then the band did in a whole or maybe he asked to be credited outside the band, did you ever think of that? Either way it is not anyone's place to remove it or make the page look stupid by posting wrongly but as I said if "redundancy" is the route that wants to be played then it needs to be played 100% not just in part. ] (]) 03:32, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
::::::I don't have a clue in this particular song, but generally when I do see this kind of credit it means that one has written the lyrics while the band (as a whole) has written the music. Lucky old Jay, he's probably already got 67.66% of the songwriter revenue. --] (]) 19:42, 2 July 2014 (UTC) ::::::I don't have a clue in this particular song, but generally when I do see this kind of credit it means that one has written the lyrics while the band (as a whole) has written the music. Lucky old Jay, he's probably already got 67.66% of the songwriter revenue. --] (]) 19:42, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

== ] ==

You are invited to participate in ''']''', a campaign to create and improve ]-related content at Misplaced Pages and its sister projects. The campaign will take place throughout the month of '''June''', culminating with a multinational '''edit-a-thon on June 21'''. Meetups are being held in some cities, or you can ]. All constructive edits are welcome in order to contribute to Misplaced Pages's mission of providing quality, accurate information. Articles related to LGBT musicians may be of particular interest. You can also upload LGBT-related images by participating in Wikimedia Commons' LGBT-related ''']'''. You are encouraged to share the ''']'''. Happy editing! --<font color="navy">]</font> <sub>(<font color="cc6600">]</font>)</sub> 19:08, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

== Arena rock - Genre or not? ==

See discussion ]. ] (]) 19:05, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

== ] ==

This FLC could do with a few more comments, if anyone's interested. Cheers, ] (]) 11:12, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
==] and Resume problem at ]==
I added a "like resume" tag to the article, and removed the category "Activists" as non-consequential and not supported by significant sources in the article. It was reverted by ] (see artist's band label for possible ]) with the summary "(Lindsay IS a highly verifiable activist - removing that was vandalism. He is also not just a "musician"; he initially gained prominence in his solo career specifically as a recording artist)". Emcochoclab appears to be a ] and ] appears to be entirely the work of ] up till 2011 when Emcochoclab started editing. I guess the musician probably is borderline notable, but as it stands its heavily puffed. Can someone take a look please. ] (]) 03:32, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

== 'xxxx (year) in British music' articles ==

This is probably only of interest to British Misplaced Pages editors, but I would like to get some sort of consensus for the format of the year end charts in these articles - some are in list form, some are tables; some are top 20, others are top 40 or top 50; some have sales figures included, although as far as I am aware there were no official yearly sales figures released before 1994, and I don't know where to get sources to verify these figures (the UK music trade magazine '']'' which publishes the year end charts doesn't give sales figures for all the records, usually just the top 10). I prefer simple lists and probably top 40 myself, but I'm happy to go along with the consensus. The biggest problem of all is that almost none of the charts are properly referenced – I've done a bit of research and now have proper citations to put to most of these charts, but it would be good to get them standardised... any opinions or advice appreciated, from Brits or anyone else. ] (]) 15:16, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

== Song article titling. ==

There is a discussion going on at ] regarding article titles. If anybody wants to tootle along and make a comment or two ], it would be much appreciated. --] (]) 16:10, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
:Project participants may also be interested in several current relevant requested moves for song/album articles:
:*]
:*]
:*]
:*]
:*]
:*]
:*]
:*]
:*]
:I may have missed a couple. As you can see, the appropriateness of disambiguating songs and albums has been much discussed lately. A lot of the same folks have been contributing over and over (myself included), so it would be good to get fresh perspectives. Dohn joe (talk) 18:44, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

== Concert tours etc. ==

Hey all, I have a (deletionist) question for you. I'm looking at ] and all I see is a directory, a schedule. Personally, even if the actual dates for this band or the other could be verified independently, I see no reason whatsoever for why Misplaced Pages should contain this information which, as far as I can tell, is available on (if not copied from) . Thus, it falls foul, like totally foul, of ], and in the case of the 2014 tour I think it's plainly promotion. The same applies to the articles on the earlier tours, such as ]--which is nothing but a schedule of things that have already happened. I'm tempted to slash 95% of that article. Also, I thought I'd post here rather than on ] since there is very little traffic there. ] (]) 16:12, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
: Personally I believe the ledes (and only the ledes) from ] (rewritten for past tense) and ] could be merged to ], leaving redirects in place of these articles. My $0.02. -- ] ] 16:29, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
::It looks like it's been mostly written by a couple of over-enthusiastic fans who misunderstand what Misplaced Pages is about: I don't think there was any deliberate intention to promote but as Gyrofrog says above, you could cut out the artist line-up and just merge a paragraph into the main article about Warped Tour. ] (]) 18:15, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
:::It looks more like an over-enthusiastic editor took it upon himself to merge several articles that have been up for years without even putting it up for a vote to me. ] (])
::::I agree with this statement, I just reverted all the blanking of pages since they have been up for years and most of the information is either lost or hard to dig up nowadays. ] (]) 21:14, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
:::*Or herself. I've also started redirecting those compilation albums: they're nothing but tracklists. Anyway, whenever there was relevant content I merged that to the main article. {{U|DX927}}, we're not going to take a vote on every edit. You are welcome to challenge it, but it seems I have a bit of consensus behind me already--thank you {{U|Gyrofrog}} and {{U|Richard3120}}. I did receive a lovely from one of the fans. ] (]) 13:38, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
::::That's hilarious, it says on the Warped Tour website that set times aren't fixed until the day of the festival and will be posted at the festival... such a big fan he didn't even bother to look. So if that's the case, there's no guarantee that any of the dates and times listed were correct anyway, so there was no point in them being on Misplaced Pages. You're such a "roter", Drmies. ] (]) 14:29, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::I guess I was too much of an "over-enthusiatic fan" to help contributing those articles. But it's whatever now. The articles are pointless to even be brought back again if that ever happens. It's ruined. ] (]) 16:20, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
::::Merging the compilation albums to the main article is pretty petty as well and an abuse of power, wow. 2 people is a consensus now? If my math is correct there's also 2 people here who disagree, which would mean there is in fact no consensus at all. Articles are supposed to be expanded on to be made better, not just taken away. I didn't bother signing in, don't make it seem like I'm just adding this from my IP to make it seem like there's more people against you. ] (]) 16:39, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::I'm sorry you feel like that, but if there aren't any actual set times posted until the day of the festival, how can Misplaced Pages include any alleged set times without any verifiable sources? And that's not what Misplaced Pages is for anyway. ] (]) 17:17, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
::::::Set times were never posted on any article. If you actually viewed the articles before agreeing that they should be removed you would have seen that. ] (]) 02:26, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::::I did look at the article – there weren't set times, but it was for the most part a very long list of all the bands appearing and the dates they were appearing at... again, this is not what Misplaced Pages is for, a complete list of bands appearing and on what days. People can go to the Warped Tour web page for that, there's no point simply replicating what appears on there. ] (]) 11:03, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
::::::::No, they can't actually. It's great to see people have no idea of what they're talking about. First you said set times were listed, when they weren't. Then you said what was in the article was on the website, when the only thing on the website is the bands and what dates they're playing. Stage placements for each day since they get changed a lot, are not listed anywhere on the website. The fact remains that one editor felt the need to merge several articles without following the proper channels and then once there was even the slightest bit of opposition removed even more articles clearly out of spite. This includes merging an article of an unrelated compilation album simply because they had released an alternate version that was released on the Warped Tour without touching any of the other albums in that series. This is hardly the way to be acting. I would revert the merges but clearly there's no point since they're just going to be put back anyway. ] (]) 06:01, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::Erm, I didn't say set times were listed on the article actually, I asked how set times could be posted without any confirmation, I was referring to the dates that the sets would be played on... but that was my fault, I left it open to misinterpretation and I apologise. But the majority of the article WAS a list of bands and the dates they were appearing at, which shouldn't have been there. In fact there IS a ] article, but the problem with articles like these is that they are unreferenced, so there is no link or citation to anywhere where these line-ups can be confirmed, especially for past years... I'm sure you can see how without verifiable references the article is open to abuse and disagreements. As for the rest, you may have a point about the compilation album – if you look at my original post, I only wrote about cutting out the artist line-up as I felt this was the superfluous information, I said nothing about removing the rest of the article, just merging it into the main article.
:::::::::My remark about "overenthusiastic editors" was not meant to be a slight on you or anyone else, I'm sorry if it came across as condescending. I did assume good faith and believed (and still believe) that you are not trying to promote the tour in any official capacity, just that you are fans that wanted to see a good article on Misplaced Pages about it. I'd agree that this hasn't been handled very well, and I hope that you and Drmies can resolve this between you without it having to go to mediation – see ]. ] (]) 11:08, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::: In my opinion, it appears since the redirects were challenged, those articles should go to ] so community consensus could be achieved. Then if a problem between the editors continues then DR would be the place. '''] <small>]</small>''' 22:17, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::Well, it is ]. I don't see a dispute that needs settling: {{U|DX927}} is all up in arms about the proper channels or whatever, but hey, first of all ] urges us to be bold; second, I notified the relevant project; third, editors agreed. We're not going to have an RfC or a vote over every single redirect, and I have followed all the relevant protocols, including AfD. Finally, I suppose it's worthwhile citing the relevant notability guidelines from ]:<blockquote>''Concert tours are notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. Such coverage might show notability in terms of artistic approach, financial success, relationship to audience, or other such terms. Sources which merely establish that a tour happened are not sufficient to demonstrate notability.''</blockquote>And one last thing, it seems to me that {{U|Encmetalhead}}, who thought they could read me the riot act about how Misplaced Pages works, has fallen foul of ] by notifying a select group of editors. ] (]) 22:34, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
::::::::::::At least I let users know what is happening unlike a certain user who just blanked a page without notifying anyone, talking on the respective talk pages, AND having a consensus decision here. If they agree with you so be it, but at least they are notified and can have the chance to have their voice heard, regardless which side they are on, unlike when noone's voice except yours was heard when you blanked the page without warning. As evidenced by this page right here you should've followed the proper procedurals to begin with. Now you just have to let the chips fall as they may. ] (]) 22:47, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::::::::::"Unlike a certain user"--use adult language please. "This page right here" is where I posted a notification in the first place. Look up: it's right there. I started this thread. A neutral place, not the talk pages of a bunch of hand-picked editors. What do you want, a handwritten letter per flying pony mail? "Dear Metalhead, this is to let you know that I am considering removing something totally that you reinstated in an article?" ] (]) 23:09, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
::::I just find this really upsetting that I was not even notified that this was happening. There was not even a notice for deletion or merging for the articles at all. I would challenge it if there was a notice first. ] (]) 18:15, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::You can challenge if you like or, better yet, you can present an argument based on policy that says it's a good idea to have an encyclopedic article that's nothing more (''nothing more'') than a schedule of bands. As for the compilation albums, please read ]--and then read ] and take that "abuse of power" complaint back, thank you very much. (One could, of course, try to play it smart and make a separate article on those compilation albums, providing some relevant and properly sourced text.) ] (]) 19:39, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
:::::This is an encyclopedia. If you are buying a ticket for "stage B", and the promoter is unwilling to tell you what acts will be performing there, tough. WP also does not take brunch reservations, or fix flat tires. If I'm being a jerk, fine--don't complain, make an argument. I have--on occasion--been turned around. --] (]) 23:13, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
::::::Well, {{U|Encmetalhead}} saw fit to revert the lot. I pointed them to ], where you all are welcome to weigh in. ] (]) 20:55, 23 June 2014 (UTC)


== WikiProject Pop music == == WikiProject Pop music ==

Revision as of 09:05, 1 September 2014

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This wikiproject overlooks all active music projects: see Music Projects and WikiProject Council for a table and a list. Posts about specific topics (e.g. albums, composers, jazz, rock or whatever) should be made to the relevant project - not here! For notices, please see the Music Noticeboard.
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Redundancy

For some odd reason, Rewind (Rascal Flatts album), the physical copy, credits some songs as being produced by "Jay DeMarcus and Rascal Flatts". However, Jay DeMarcus is one-third of Rascal Flatts, so the credit is pointlessly redundant. Should the article reflect the redundancy? Are there any other instances where a song or work is credited to both "Group Member and Band That Group Member Is Part Of"? Ten Pound Hammer05:28, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I'd just leave it how it is, seeing how he is part of Rascal Flatts. I have seen this before with an album, though can't recall which. NYSMy talk page 17:01, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
if that is your opinion then you need to remove the three being credited outside of the group as you said that is "Redundancy" which is bull. 184.16.71.34 (talk) 01:28, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
Bumping since the page is getting edit warred. Ten Pound Hammer17:03, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
As I said to TenPoundHammer, I could careless if Jay DeMarcus is Father Christmas, it is stated he is credited outside the band as producer and they have to explain why he is. It is confusing to people by not posting it because anyone can look at the album and see his credited as a producer outside the band and when they look on here they are going to see how idiotic Misplaced Pages is because someone put their personal opinion into it and instead of placing the information as it appears on the album decides to edit war with thousands of IP address, stoops to the level of name calling and telling people to "piss off" and Misplaced Pages wonders why colleges have no respect for or allow people to source Misplaced Pages. This kind of behaviour and personal opinion is why. Post it as it appears not what you think should be done. 50.121.36.219 (talk) 03:19, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
Also if that is redundant then it is redundant to credit them outside the band in the written credits, or as writers at all if they wrote one of the songs, I mean if we want to go down this ridiculous road as to what is "redundant" then if let us go all the way then if an artist is also credited as a writer and a producer on a song they should not be posted in the track listing at all. See how stupid it this redundancy claim is? It is no different then any other artist Jay possibly did some additional producing more then the band did in a whole or maybe he asked to be credited outside the band, did you ever think of that? Either way it is not anyone's place to remove it or make the page look stupid by posting wrongly but as I said if "redundancy" is the route that wants to be played then it needs to be played 100% not just in part. 50.121.36.219 (talk) 03:32, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
I don't have a clue in this particular song, but generally when I do see this kind of credit it means that one has written the lyrics while the band (as a whole) has written the music. Lucky old Jay, he's probably already got 67.66% of the songwriter revenue. --Richhoncho (talk) 19:42, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Pop music

I have opened a proposal for a WikiProject dedicated to pop music. Feel free to leave comments or question. Erick (talk) 23:58, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Leaflet For Wikiproject Music At Wikimania 2014 (updated version)

Please note: This is an updated version of a previous post that I made.

Hi all,

My name is Adi Khajuria and I am helping out with Wikimania 2014 in London.

One of our initiatives is to create leaflets to increase the discoverability of various wikimedia projects, and showcase the breadth of activity within wikimedia. Any kind of project can have a physical paper leaflet designed - for free - as a tool to help recruit new contributors. These leaflets will be printed at Wikimania 2014, and the designs can be re-used in the future at other events and locations.

This is particularly aimed at highlighting less discoverable but successful projects, e.g:

• Active Wikiprojects: Wikiproject Medicine, WikiProject Video Games, Wikiproject Film

• Tech projects/Tools, which may be looking for either users or developers.

• Less known major projects: Wikinews, Wikidata, Wikivoyage, etc.

• Wiki Loves Parliaments, Wiki Loves Monuments, Wiki Loves ____

• Wikimedia thematic organisations, Wikiwomen’s Collaborative, The Signpost
The deadline for submissions is 1st July 2014
For more information or to sign up for one for your project, go to:
Project leaflets
Adikhajuria (talk) 11:26, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Little Mix Discography - sales

Users LittleMixCroatia and Joedunn98 have been adding sales worldwide and by country for all records on Little Mix discography. I tagged them with {{Citation needed}} as I feel these figures shouldn't be quoted without some verified source to back them up, and Joedunn98 has simply removed the tags. I'm sure he's just a fan, but what do other editors think, should the figures stay without any citations? As far as I can tell, they have been sourced from the Digital Spy website or the fan site Little Mix Daily, which simply reproduces the figures from Digital Spy. The Digital Spy figures would appear to be simply estimates, with no official confirmation, and I don't know whether they have come from the website's writers or fans on the forums. Anybody want to look into it and confirm whether this is the case or not? Thanks. Richard3120 (talk) 20:46, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Update: Ok, LittleMixCroatia has updated the citations with, as I suspected, references to figures taken from the forums of the Digital Spy website. As this will be user-generated content, and there is no indication where the DS forum user has obtained the figures himself/herself, I would guess that this qualifies as an unusable citation, would I be right? Richard3120 (talk) 17:02, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
Absolutely unreliable. I would revert these edits on sight. I have reverted to a previous version of the article. Sales figures for singles are generally not included, as they vary in their availability and aren't updated very often. Adabow (talk) 22:11, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
Aaaand Little Mix Croatia has simply re-added all the sales figures again... sigh. And the photo which violated copyright which is why it was removed in the first place. Judging by this message left on another editor's talk page, he/she appears to disagree with WP:OWN. I will leave them a polite message and give him/her a chance to come up with some verifiable sources. Richard3120 (talk) 21:45, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Sigh... judging by this comment they seem to simply not care about verifying whether the figures are real or not. I've left another message on Little Mix Croatia's talk page. Richard3120 (talk) 11:35, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Notability check

Hey all, I'm hoping to get a notability check on Jordyn Taylor, as I am contemplating an AfD. Based on what I can tell from WP:BAND, there isn't a whole lot of justification for an article yet. According to Discogs, she has had one track on the Confessions of a Shopaholic soundtrack, which conceivably could make her notable. And I found this item, which indicates she has recorded two albums, but I'm not familiar with Star Base records to know if it meets the criteria for a major label or a hungry indie. Per WP:BEFORE I looked to see if there was any significant coverage at Google News or Google Books, but I didn't find anything. Thoughts? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 18:08, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Requested move of Madonna (entertainer) to Madonna

Interested editors may wish to discuss here. –Chase (talk / contribs) 00:21, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:World music by language

Category:World music by language has been nominated for deletion, merging, or renaming. You are encouraged to join the discussion on the Categories for discussion page. 068129201223129O9598127 (talk) 22:59, 19 July 2014 (UTC)


Using {{Certification}} in {{Certification Table Entry}}

Being the bold editor that I am, I went ahead and tweaked {{Certification Table Entry}} such that its award parameter would use {{Certification}} in order to display discs along with the text instead of just plain text for illustration. Within minutes this tweak was reverted by , justifying the revert by saying the images "are sooooo annoying" in his/her edit summary (haven't found out the user's gender yet). Personally I don't think that's a good enough reason to revert the changes I made, but instead of getting into a potential and needless edit war with this person I've come here to seek consensus on whether {{Certification}} should be used to illustrate the awards or whether we should just stick to plain text. Davykamanzitalkcontribsalter ego 16:53, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

  • Hi Davykamanzi, I think this change is responsible for the 200+ extra entries that just popped up in Category:Articles with missing files. The file File:Platinum+Gold.png does not exist but is now trying to be used in a long list of articles (list here). There may be other images not available for the new change as well, but I think this looks like the worse contender. So if your going to stay with the new format, can someone create this asap.
  • As its a few hours later and I'm now home, I created the file mentioned above. KylieTastic (talk) 20:10, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
  • Hi Davykamanzi, I discovered I had an unlucky first random sample, this image is not the main issue. The missing images are because the data is duff! Many have the award as something like "2 x Platinum", rather than have a number field. Others I've found with N/A or - in the award field. So 200+ articles need to be fixed up, or the templates changed (either revert change, or change {{Certification}} to not try to use the name as the default image) KylieTastic (talk) 20:41, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Charts: Proposed inclusion of Beatport, for genre-specific notability guidelines

See discussion here. Semitransgenic talk. 12:26, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

Year in music - what constitutes a "Top Hit"?

There is a section in some of the year articles for "Top Hits" and some of these sections have been tagged for lack of clarity. What would people feel about setting an objective criterion - something like "Must have been in the top 10/top 3" in at least one country's official chart"? Deb (talk) 11:57, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Since they would need sources, yes something to that effect. Perhaps some text explaining the notability of the songs too (i.e: this song was a top ten hit for whatever amount of time). This sounds like it could be a really endless list however. I'm sure someone else could build better criteria than me.Andrzejbanas (talk) 12:10, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

List of songs recorded by...

Are articles like List of songs recorded by AC/DC encouraged? This one is fairly poor, and before I bother to clean it up, I was wondering if this kind of article is acceptable or should instead be deleted. Any thoughts would be welcome. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:06, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

There have been approximately 200 "Lists of Songs recorded by XXX" created in the past 2 years. The question is whether they add to the discography page (if there is one) and does it add to WP? Firstly it should be noted that "Songs recorded by ..." is not related to a discography, which is about "records released" Recorded songs could and should include, for example, unreleased songs (if verifiable) and other information not usually associated with a discography, i.e. where recorded, written by, first performed, first released, which album and probably more. In the case of AC/DC I suggest (without checking), that this is all more than possible. --Richhoncho (talk) 08:44, 25 August 2014 (UTC)
That's a lot more than I suspected! As it stands the AC/DC page is very limited, but information such as recording location/date, unreleased songs etc – it's all out there and verifiable. I will tackle it in due course. Thanks for your reply :) Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:02, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Help please from a classical music expert about an article at Afc

Hello, could someone who knows their classical music – and/or their music libraries – please take a look at this submission Draft:Répertoire_international_de_la_presse_musicale and give a view. I've now established basic notability from this: International Association of Music Libraries, Archives and Documentation Centres, but the article needs better sources and ideally some guidance from someone who knows their stuff. Any advice about how best to structure the article gratefully received – particularly managing the very long bibliography. Many thanks. Libby norman (talk) 22:54, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Copyright expiry on lyrics

What is the policy regarding using complete song lyrics on articles? Does the copyright entail that you must wait a certain number of years after the composer has died or a number of years after the song was published? If a user could please link me or give a quick answer, I'd really appreciate that. Upjav (talk) 18:49, 31 August 2014 (UTC)