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Revision as of 09:12, 24 September 2014 editSandstein (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators188,206 edits →Result concerning SeattliteTungsten: blocking← Previous edit Revision as of 09:12, 24 September 2014 edit undoSandstein (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators188,206 edits →SeattliteTungsten: closedNext edit →
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==SeattliteTungsten== ==SeattliteTungsten==
{{hat|1=SeattliteTungsten is blocked for 48 hours. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 09:12, 24 September 2014 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> <small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


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:*The BBC-related material is definitely a revert (''partial'' revert, but a revert nonetheless). I am a bit more lenient on the other one, as the citation that SeattliteTungsten provided is a little better, although in spirit it is still reintroducing something that was removed. - ] &#124; <sup>] and ]</sup> 07:28, 24 September 2014 (UTC) :*The BBC-related material is definitely a revert (''partial'' revert, but a revert nonetheless). I am a bit more lenient on the other one, as the citation that SeattliteTungsten provided is a little better, although in spirit it is still reintroducing something that was removed. - ] &#124; <sup>] and ]</sup> 07:28, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
*The request has merit. Both edits are reverts as described at ] ("a "revert" means any edit (or administrative action) that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material") because both reintroduce texts, or parts of text, that a previous edit removed. Because SeattliteTungsten's long response indicates that they misunderstand or refuse to accept the revert restriction, a block is required to enforce it. SeattliteTungsten is blocked for 48 hours. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 09:12, 24 September 2014 (UTC) *The request has merit. Both edits are reverts as described at ] ("a "revert" means any edit (or administrative action) that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material") because both reintroduce texts, or parts of text, that a previous edit removed. Because SeattliteTungsten's long response indicates that they misunderstand or refuse to accept the revert restriction, a block is required to enforce it. SeattliteTungsten is blocked for 48 hours. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">]</span></small> 09:12, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
{{hab}}

Revision as of 09:12, 24 September 2014

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    Ithinkicahn

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Ithinkicahn

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    EtienneDolet (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:05, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Ithinkicahn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:AA2
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    • The user engages in a relentless effort to remove any mention of the Armenian Genocide in Misplaced Pages. It's a classic case of WP:IDONTLIKEIT. The user's edit-summaries are almost always misleading. They're often entirely irrelevant to what the user's edit actually entails (i.e. 14 August , March 12, and 31 July edits). It's impossible to detect when and where the user has deleted references of the Armenian Genocide. Therefore, all edits must be examined. These are the only ones I happened to come across:
    1. 15 September
    2. 26 August
    3. 20 August
    4. 18 August
    5. 16 August
    6. 15 August
    7. 14 August
    8. 31 July
    9. 29 July
    10. 15 July
    11. 24 May
    12. 21 May
    13. 12 March
    14. 2 March
    15. 2 March
    16. 22 February
    • The user also assumes an overt WP:BADFAITH towards his "opponents". He has openly exclaimed, even after I told him to stop with the badfaith assumptions, that "I have reason to assume bad faith on your part because of my experience with you in the past" (29 July). In an article where I have made only six constructive and harmless edits (), the user kept hurling accusations at me by calling me a POV pusher and accused me of historical revisionism (here and here). The user continued doing this even after I kindly told him to stop. Apparently, he was not interested in adhering to basic Misplaced Pages policy either (). Even with third-party users stating that the article was NPOV and reliably sourced (), Ithinkicahn continued unilaterally placing the POV tag and had edit-warred to get his way ().
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 23 February 2014
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I've tried to work with the user on countless occasions. In the past, I've granted him a barnstar and was always supportive of his edits in Turkey related articles. However, once the user started editing in Armenian related topics, it turned into an entirely different story. His deletion of massive amounts of information (often times sourced) concerning the Armenian Genocide is highly problematic. Most of his edits regarding the Armenian Genocide are driven by his own personal opinions and fall contrary to the general consensus Misplaced Pages has instilled regarding the subject. Consequently, the deceptive edit-summaries make it necessary to tend and examine each edit. Furthermore, an uncompromising attitude towards those that don't fall into the user's POV makes it almost impossible to work with him. Hence, for the reasons I have mentioned, I suggest that the user be banned from all topics related to Armenia and Turkey.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested


    Discussion concerning Ithinkicahn

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Ithinkicahn

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Ithinkicahn

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    • Editor hasn't edited since September 16, according to contribution. Wouldn't say stale, but revisiting this when editor returns may be the way to go. - Penwhale | 05:57, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

    SeattliteTungsten

    SeattliteTungsten is blocked for 48 hours.  Sandstein  09:12, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning SeattliteTungsten

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Zero0000 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 11:10, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    SeattliteTungsten (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:ARBPIA : 1RR violation
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 21:18, 22 September 2014 Reverted to reintroduce BBC material deleted in the previous edit. Rewrote it slightly.
    2. 00:47, 23 September 2014 Reverted previous edit.

    Note that SeattliteTungsten called both edits "reverts" in his/her edit summary.

    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. 16:56, 11 September 2014 Official warning issued by HJ Mitchell on account of Sep 10-11 AN/I case]
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • 12:54, 27 July 2014 Issued with standard ARBPIA notice.
    • Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Sep 8-11.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I didn't want to submit this case, and over a period of 9 hours twice offered to let SeattliteTungsten avoid it by self-reverting. However, he/she just wants to argue so here we are.

    As Penwhale has already pointed out, SeattliteTungsten's understanding of the rule is defective. It is also defective in terms of what a revert is. If reverts can be sanitised by making some changes to the reverted text, then we can happily revert all day long as long as we remember to change the text a little each time. The 1RR rule would become inoperative. In each case, some text had just been deleted in toto and SeattliteTungsten put it back with some changes. The changes don't alter the fact that SeattliteTungsten reinserted ideas and their sources that another editor had just completely removed. In each case, SeattliteTungsten correctly used the word "revert" in his/her edit summary so it is puzzling that he/she now wants to argue they weren't reverts after all. Zero 06:17, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Notified Zero 11:13, 23 September 2014 (UTC)


    Discussion concerning SeattliteTungsten

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by SeattliteTungsten

    The complaintant's contribution to Misplaced Pages is overall worthwhile and positive. However, the current complaint is frivolous and wholly without merit.

    1. The purpose of the 1RR rule is to prevent an "edit war"; there is no edit war here. 0) "Obama is black" 1) "Obama is white" 2) "Obama is black" 3) "Obama is white" 4) "Obama is black": not until #4 is there a violation of 1RR ("edit war") because #0 and #1 are edits and #2 and #3 are permissible first reverts. This required sequence did not occur.
    2. The 1RR rule applies to edits of the same text. 5) "Obama is a black Democrat" 6) "Obama is a white Republican" 7) "Obama is a black Democrat": I expect there is consensus that #7 is not a a 1RR violation. Suppose the same editor instead submitted sequentially, 7A) "Obama is black Republican" and then 7) "Obama is a black Democrat": by the complaintant's erroneous logic, the editor has committed a 1RR violation with two reverts, first the #7A "white" to "black" revert and then the #7 "Republican" to "Democrat" revert. I hope there is equal consensus that it is incorrect to conclude that #7 becomes a 1RR violation only if the intermediate version #7A is uploaded. (Even if the language of 1RR were to literally support this interpretation, in the immortal words of the Florida Supreme Court in Bush v. Gore, it would be "a hypertechnical reliance upon statuatory provisions" and therefore incorrect as a matter of substance.) The complaintant's examples are from different sections and do not have the 0,1,2,3,4 pattern required for a 1RR violation.
    3. The 1RR rule requires reversions to previously existing text. Despite the inaccurate characterization of "revert" in both comments, neither of the two edits was a revert that restored previously existing text.
    4. Both examples are instances of new text that did not previously exist. Indeed, the incorporation of elements based on the prior edits to create new text is the intention of a collaborative process. This distinguishes the changes as edits and not reverts. WP policy explicitly states, "The first and foremost alternative to reverting when you find you disagree with an edit is to find a third version of the text that incorporates at least some of the elements of the prior text and the current text." Both examples cited are third versions of text and, therefore, are not reverts. In the first example, the text about the BBC was substantially reduced to incorporate an element of the prior edit that the text was unnecessary or irrelevent or too long. In the second example, the reference to GPF's position was changed from an indirect reference to a direct quote to address the concern of the prior edit that the statement might be misquoted or otherwise taken out of context.
    5. The first example has eight different changes only one of which is claimed to be a revert (but isn't... see above) while seven of the eight changes are original work.
    6. Re: User:Penwhale's interpretation that *RR refers to edits of the same page not the same text, I do not agree. It lacks context. There is no edit war here. *RR is about preventing ad nauseum back-and-forths reverting the same text to a previous version. Distinct *RRs require an intervening edit by someone else before it is possible to revert a second time. The 3RR policy explicitly clarifies, "A series of consecutive saved revert edits by one user with no intervening edits by another user counts as one revert." This should be clear: multiple reverts are only multiple reverts when there is an intervening re-revert. For the hypertechinical readers: if someone happens to make an intervening minor edit to a completely unrelated section of a page, the wholly unrelated intervening edit to a completely different section does not suddenly create a *RR violation where one did not exist before. Such a claim is absurd. Therefore, the meaning is clearly, "A series of saved revert edits by one user that are unaffected by intervening edits by another user counts as one revert" so even if there are intervening edits, the intervening edits must be edits, i.e., reverts, to the affected text.
    7. Re: User:Penwhale's characterization of BBC as revert, I strongly disagree with this characterization and will explain why this is the case technically, contextually, substantively, and editorially. (I do not like technical reasons and I believe contextual and substantive reasons are more important here. The editorial reason is ironic to the point of being humorous.)
      1. Technically, to "revert" means to return to a previous state. This was not the case here. The BBC example is not an example of being returned to a previous state. The introduced edit was a new state that had not previously existed so it cannot technically be a revert. There were only fourteen words added about the BBC of which five words were either "the", "separation" or "barrier" in an article about the separation barrier. Under the absurd definition that an edit containing any new words (only nine "unique" words were added) that were previously deleted constitutes a revert, by reductio ad absurdum we would have the ridiculous definition of any new edit having the word, "the" is a "partial revert" if any previous edit existed which contained the deleted the word, "the"!
      2. Contextually, I am reiterating that there is no edit war. The context of this edit is the definition of what Misplaced Pages policy encourages editors to do: collaborate by incorprating some of the previous edit into new (third) text. The complaintant is wasting time making frivolous complaints when a review of the edits shows they were in different sections and there was and is no edit war comprised of reversions of the same text.
      3. Substantively, this was actually an example of a properly working collaborative process, the opposite of what is alleged: the "first" text contained 43 words about the BBC. The "second" text contained 0 words. The "third" text was a compromise that was shortened to 14 words. Contrary to the complaintant's misleading description of a non-existent, imaginary edit war, "happily revert all day long as long as we remember to change the text a little each time" the correct and non-misleading description of a collaborative process was "FIRST: 43 words; SECOND: 0 words; THIRD: 14 words" which is the opposite of an edit war and is a good example of (in the present case) two editors with different POVs quickly converging upon a solution. The reality is that the third text (alleged 1RR violation) was a 67% compromise from 43 down to 14 words, yet after immediately receiving a 67% compromise the complaintant alleges an editing violation that is characterized as being uncompromising when the reality of the evidence presented is actually an example of convergence -- the opposite of an edit war. (For the scientifically oriented readers, an "edit war" regarding 43 words comprised of edits that are each 67% compromises has a half-life of about 1 - 2 edits.)
      4. Editorially, the compromise text which is cited as the first example by the complaintant has now been restored by another editor (unknown to me) who has derisively mocked the complaintant's deletion of the BBC as an authoritative source of English language usage. In the end, it is the defendant's proposed compromise text that now seems to be accepted as the editorial consensus on the subject page. The irony should not be lost on neutral reviewers that from an editorial perspective, the case for sanctioning should be against the complaintant: in the extreme for vandalism but at least for bad judgment. In addition to typing one hundred times on the defendant's user page, "I am sorry for wasting other people's time filing a frivilous complaint" the complaintant should be ordered to perform self-flagellation with a wet noodle for having bad editorial judgment.

    The complaint should be summarily dismissed. Because the complaintant was informed (generally) that the cited examples do not constitute a 1RR violation for the above reasons prior to filing the complaint, the complaintant should sanctioned with a symbolic 1-hour block and a request to type, "I am sorry for wasting other people's time filing a frivilous complaint" one hundred times on the defendant's user page as a sanction for wasting time by filing this frivilous complaint. SeattliteTungsten (talk) 00:07, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning SeattliteTungsten

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

    • The BBC-related material is definitely a revert (partial revert, but a revert nonetheless). I am a bit more lenient on the other one, as the citation that SeattliteTungsten provided is a little better, although in spirit it is still reintroducing something that was removed. - Penwhale | 07:28, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
    • The request has merit. Both edits are reverts as described at WP:3RR ("a "revert" means any edit (or administrative action) that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material") because both reintroduce texts, or parts of text, that a previous edit removed. Because SeattliteTungsten's long response indicates that they misunderstand or refuse to accept the revert restriction, a block is required to enforce it. SeattliteTungsten is blocked for 48 hours.  Sandstein  09:12, 24 September 2014 (UTC)