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Question: Articles for Deletion

You made this nomination for Giant Raccoon's Flatulence theory, and though I posted the article and love it as my child, I agree that it's reasonable to consider deleting it. But the tag on the article says it's being considered for deletion under Misplaced Pages's Deletion policy. I've searched that policy and found nothing at all about notability. Am I looking in the wrong place, does the policy need to be updated, is it the wrong tag, did I write the article with a non-neutral point of view, do administrators have plenary power that transcends the written rules, or ????. (I vote for expanding the policy to more clearly include non-notability.)

And by the way, the notability article doesn't mention non-notable ideas by notable people. (I'm not complaining, and not defending the Raccoon—just pointing out something that might possibly need to be fixed.) Lou Sander 13:10, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Very long answer here. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:07, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the very long answer, and for the information contained therein. Both are worthwhile, and I thank you again. I have two points in reply:

1) I didn't originally make the connection between your "One 'theory' from one Ann Coulter book; not inherently notable." and the policy's "Such a minor branch of a subject that it doesn't deserve an article" (I hope you can see how a newcomer could miss that connection). Now I see the connection and I agree that the policy's words apply to the Raccoon article.

I also now understand the taboo nature of defining "notability," but I'm still not excited that neither the AfD tag nor the proposer's words were very specific about the reason for the AfD recommendation. Since similar things are "brought up (so) often at AfD," I'm thinking that I'm not the only one who is confused about this. Others are possibly disturbed, upset, pissed off, apoplectic, etc. My hope would be that he/she who proposes deletion on the grounds of notability or one of the non-obvious reasons buried in the fine print of the policy would also supply some sort of more specific justification. For the Raccoon, "Minor topic that doesn't deserve its own article" would, IMHO, have sufficed. It would also have avoided any reader's ill-grounded inference that the proposer had any opinions or points of view about the controversial and inflammatory Ms. Coulter (or her work). (And by the way, the first words of the Raccoon article state that it's a "fanciful concept," and not a real "theory." I was pretty careful to put that in, but many readers seem to have missed it.)

2) You said: Lack of "notability" very, very often corresponds with violations of Misplaced Pages:Verifiability and Misplaced Pages:No Original Research. I think this is a serious problem (emphasis mine) with your article too, in fact, and I really would ask you to read those two policies carefully. I believe the following portion of your article is unverifiable Original Research:

The imagine, perhaps and might, italicized by Coulter for emphasis, refer to what she believes is the speculative, mythical, "made-up-story" nature of the theory that species evolved through random mutation and selection.

The "fundamentalist Christian nut" material refers to what she believes is the tendency of evolutionists (to her, an intolerant religious cult) to respond to criticism by name-calling. Her book presents examples of that tendency.

This is, I think, your description or interpretation of what Coulter means, right? (emphasis mine)

I say: Balderdash, sir, balderdash! (emphasis mine) ;- ) The source of the quoted material is a notable book from a reliable publisher, and the article links to the Misplaced Pages article about that book. The non-quoted material is my fair summarization (or at least I hope it is fair) of extensive material in the 20-page chapter of which the Raccoon quote is an epigrammatic summary. In that chapter, the author gives clear and explicit explanations for the words she italicized in the quotation.

I didn't want to include bulky material from the chapter, or numerous references to specific pages in the book (which most readers probably don't own or haven't read, any more than they own or have recently read Origin of Species). If it's "original research" to edit/distill a chapter for brevity, while retaining the meanings of words and phrases the author explicitly defines in that chapter, I'm guilty.

And if I'm guilty, then I've got to say that those are pretty tortured interpretations of the words "serious problem" and "original research," especially when the latter formerly meant the research of "physics cranks." (And BTW, I did re-read the policies. Thanks for the suggestion.)

I've edited the article to lessen the air of original research. Lou Sander 20:52, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Fair enough regarding my original research suspicions: although there is still an interpretive element in summarizing pages worth of material, I admit it is minimal and that it is a commonplace practice to do so. I didn't suspect that Coulter actually spent time syntactically analyzing her rather clear argument; forgive me. I still claim that a topic is not worth encyclopedic coverage unless if secondary sources have discussed it; in the context of a concept like this, the book is a primary source, I think. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:01, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Yer a good guy, Bunch! (May I call you Bunch?) Smart, too! I'm thinking that the Raccoon really belongs in the article on the book, which doesn't contain much about what the book actually says, but is full of strong and often spurious criticism ("original research"?). If put there, it would boil a whole acerbic chapter down to a few acerbic words. Lou Sander 21:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, Bunch, Grapes, BoG... it's all good. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:36, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Jewellery

Had a sense it was going to fail; very much premature, & unfortuinate that Spawn pulled it off - but I always thought it had potential, hence I've been working on it - how does it get re-listed/nominated; is there a "recommended waiting period" before it gets renommed? Bridesmill 23:26, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I usually recommend waiting at least 2 weeks, preferably closer to 4, before renominating. Raul654 23:32, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Works for me; will prob take nearly that long to knock it into shape anyways Thanks for the advice.Bridesmill 01:35, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

SupportOppose

Hey, thanks for the heads up, I never would have noticed. Now it just seems really funny. Anyway, have a good day. --WillMak050389 20:08, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Blanking a talk page

It's kind of a moot point since the block was shortened anyway. And actually, I'm pretty mild when it comes to blocking. I know of quite a few admins who would block him for much longer for blanking his talk page. I could name them but I'd rather not get hit. ;-) --Woohookitty 20:19, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm left speechless. Someone else say something. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:19, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Something. KillerChihuahua 21:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Now that, that I saw coming! Thanks! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it was fairly obvious. Sorry about that. KillerChihuahua 21:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

FAC

Sorry, I didn't notice that rule. --GoOdCoNtEnT 03:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello!

{{User:Scarbor/Hello!}}

Is that what you mean? --Scarbor 15:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Why? --Scarbor 15:04, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

If you would like to know more about Esperanza, and its various smile campaigns, go to WP:ESP. We aren't spamming, we are just out to help other people have a nice day. There has already been a TFD about this, so don't bring it up again. --Scarbor 15:06, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I am making myself clear. What does this take? I'm not being disruptive! --Scarbor 15:08, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Good grief, Aslan and Lion of Judah and Torchwood and the British Empire all rolled into one BFF smiley spam? Try hard, and I'm sure you can squeeze in a little more... Long live Harry Potter and Dirty Harry and Harridans in general and General Harridan the whore of Babylon!!! KillerChihuahua 15:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Don't forget that it adds one to ]! Altogether powerful stuff. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:33, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Bunchofgrapes. I think there is reason to believe that User:Scarbor may be a sockpuppet of indef banned User:Bling-chav, given the spurious/misinformed RfA nomination of Blink-chav by Scarbor. Anyway, I certainly support blocking this user. If a checkuser showed sockpuppetry that would be strong support for an indef block. Best, Gwernol 15:46, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I kind of gathered that -- maybe User:Piedras_grandes is involved as well in this crowd. I don't think a CheckUser is needed in any case: the account has zero good and many bad contributions, that I can see, and is clearly somebody returning to cause a little trouble. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:49, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

POKE 54296, 17

I certainly was the guy. Those were glorious days, and glorious days to be Louis F. Sander. For several years back then, I could walk into any shopping mall in North America, on any day of the year, and find my work. (Plus the work of guys like you, of course. I always got a kick out of giving people a taste of recognition.)

My 15 minutes of fame lasted and lasted and lasted, but sadly, they ended quite a while ago. All I'm famous for these days is writing dumbass articles on the farts of giant raccoons. (Everybody wants to get rid of them, too, and oddly, I suppose, I agree.) OH, how the mighty have fallen!

A couple of years ago I got an email from a guy whose parents had called him back home to clean out his old computer stuff. As he looked through his RUN magazines, he found a Magic item submitted by a guy named Timothy McVeigh. I did some research on the famous Tim, and there were reports that he had been a Commodore enthusiast. On that and on the basis of age and hometown, I concluded that the famous Tim and my guy were one and the same. Cool, but when you think about it, I was probably the first person to give Tim a taste of name recognition. Later on, he found a way to get more. Sheesh!

I was thinking the other day that, since I paid most of the contributors directly, I probably have Tim's signature on a cancelled check in my archives. (BTW, you're not Osama bin Laden, are you? If you are, I promise I'll never tell.)

I often wonder what ever happened to the hundreds of people whose tips were published in the Magic column. I'm guessing most have done well, since they had to be pretty clever to come up with something good enough to make it into the column. And, in case you're wondering, I'm thinking that rising to a Misplaced Pages administratorship is a definite sign of doing well! Lou Sander 00:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

PS - If the success of your Magic submission had any effect on your later life, I'd really like to know about it. Sometimes small things leave big marks. (But usually not, of course.)

PPS - My first taste of Moutai was with Jim Butterfield, a Commodore writer who flourished earlier than I did, and who IMHO was the only person ahead of me on the list of famous Commodore writers.

And even the raccoon articles are derivitave of somebody else's work. But I guess the Magic column was, too. Lou Sander 01:29, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Another set of eyes would help

On Cleanness, someone has wanted to change "from Christian legend and pseudopygrapha" to "from Christian mythology and pseudopygrapha" and change "fall of Satan" to "the Great Fall." I've gone reverting a couple of times now. I attempted a compromise by allowing them (there are two accounts suddenly interested in a poem by the Pearl Poet) to have their link in an easter egg and have a display text of "legend." See what you think.

By the way, for background: there is a lot of talk about "myth means just story in Greek, and so it should be used all the time now." That's actually untrue. In ancient Greek, the word did mean just "story" for a while, but it already meant "fabulous story" by the time of Plato. This is in addition to the fact that in English it means "untrue story." Seems to me that you need a reason to push that change and to try to reshape 400 years of English usage and another 600 years of Greek usage. However, that's not really the point, here. The point is whether there is any purpose at all in having a link to an incendiary term, when it's not central to the article and, in fact, not informative to the article. (Readers get zero benefit from clicking the link.) Geogre 01:53, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll have a look. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 02:47, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Request for copyedit

Hi! I was wondering if you'd be willing to take on another university article to copy edit after your great job with the Cornell article. Duke University is a current FAC, but User:mercuryboard has requested a set of eyes to "thoroughly copyedit." Anyways, if you have time/the desire to go through another university article, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks! -Bluedog423 05:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, no. University articles generally put me to sleep. I made an uncharacteristic exception for my alma mater. Thanks for asking though. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:20, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

The enabler, sympathiser, etc, etc

Oh noes more ongoing patronage and tireless efforts! Somebody's going to need to post a link to a thesaurus for the tireless bishonenwatcher soon, I reckon. Bishonen | talk 18:27, 9 July 2006 (UTC).

Oh boy. They drama continues. Might I venture that a week-long block or similar on HE might be in order for yesterday's outbursts? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:23, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Request

Yo, Bunch! I wonder if you could possibly delete User:RevNeal to give the guy a clean history. I inadvertently posted content there that should have gone to his talk page. I've since moved it, but my footprints are all over the place in his nice, shiny new user page. TCC (talk) (contribs) 04:33, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

All right, done. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 14:40, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! TCC (talk) (contribs) 01:21, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Karmafist

Well, he's on civility parole. This edit and this one suggest that he's due a reminder that Arbitration Committee paroles have teeth. But I've started a more compendious discussion on what to do, at WP:ANI#What_to_do_about_Karmafist --Tony Sidaway 23:06, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes... I've been commenting in that thread. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 23:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Are you awake?

Bunch? Bishonen | talk 06:08, 11 July 2006 (UTC).

Just now. Checking email. Hang on. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 14:30, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, Bunch is open for business. What can I do you for? Need some work done on Kumis? Or The Muffin Man? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:49, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh... I wanted some help, right. Today's assignment is to look at the timestamp and figure it out. Never mind, it was ages ago. Bishonen | talk 17:14, 11 July 2006 (UTC).

Block-happy

I blocked that IP for 24 hr. My feeling is that it's a regular account that is simply logged out to drunkenly stagger around pooting here and there. I.e. I don't think it was made with any lack of awareness of the inappropriateness, so a 24 hr block looked pretty appealing. Geogre 03:00, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, no argument here at all. I was just composing one last stern final warning that surely would have had them shaking in their cowardly anonymous boots, but it was already overkill. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:02, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

And then they had such nice things to say about you, Geogre. . I've protected the talk page. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 03:07, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I know. So Bobby rolled to 2-3 other IP's, kept doing the squat and run, and basically swinging his arms in all directions. You know that's going to be effective. No, I'm not going to do a checkuser, because I'm not motivated, but anyone actually irritated by a particular recently-departed might well do so. Geogre 08:45, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

kinda shocked

i'm shocked that as an admin you would just repeat an insulting line that a user expressed dislike for. tony sideway apologized to me, and i was find about it - why would you come along and rub salt in it? Themindset 22:10, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Apparently I completely misunderstood your meaning, I thought you were reinforcing his comment towards me. Themindset 22:17, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

looks like i'm the one who owes you an apology! sorry bout that. Themindset 22:26, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

New anti-Semitism

Hey a long time ago you decided to pick a fight with me :-) So now I get to bother you since you're one of hte admins I know :-)

Anyway can you please advise how New anti-Semitism might become a FA candidate or otherwise comment on this suggestion? - Abscissa 04:39, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks man

I owe you something for that feedback. A medal or sumthing. Thanks Cs-wolves 21:48, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I would trust an admin, rather than some guy. Thanks again Cs-wolves 22:22, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

If I happened to be blocked, would you be able to unblock me?? Cs-wolves 22:30, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Flatulent Raccoon redux

The rest of the world is discovering the Gassy Masked Bandit! Maybe one of these years he'll be "notable"...click me. ;-) Lou Sander 01:36, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Architecture of Norway

I've been working pretty diligently to respond to the objections against the nomination, as you'll see if you looked. I've also solicited feedback from architects both within and outside the Misplaced Pages community. I think that failing it without taking this into account is a highly questionable practice. Please tell me why I should not simply remove the tag you inserted. --Leifern 02:57, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Eddie

I could be wrong, but Can't sleep, Yankees will beat Red Sox (talk · contribs) sounds just like Eddie Segoura. —Viriditas | Talk

Let's see, in his short edit history we got Yankees, Hurricanes, Power Rangers, and interests in vanity pages and RfA. And his block-evading anonymous contribs are from AOL. Likely indeed. Perhaps I will leave a message on his talk page. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 14:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Heh. I took a look at the discussion on his talk page. It does sound like him, doesn't it? —Viriditas | Talk 03:51, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

And what on earth did he do this for? A project page for hurricanes that redirects to the article? TCC (talk) (contribs) 05:11, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Reminder

Never, ever run for Arbcom. KillerChihuahua 17:15, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

OK. Thanks. But I am the second most neutral editor ever to be born. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:17, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Which raises the burning question, whom do you consider the first? KillerChihuahua 17:18, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I've heard we should ask Jimbo. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

roflmao, that's not what I asked, dear. KillerChihuahua 17:27, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. In my opinion, the most neutral editor ever is... uh... Willy on Wheels. Completely, zenfully, devoid of POV. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:37, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

ah... very Zen, you're right. Such admirable detachment is surely the epitome of NPOV. Pity the most NPOV editor is also disruptive and harmful to the project as a whole. Still, it bears contemplation. KillerChihuahua 17:39, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Contemplation ON WHEELS! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 17:57, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I am so tempted to move your user page to Contemplation ON WHEELS. Admire my restraint. KillerChihuahua 17:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I do. I do. Did you ever see the now-deleted Misplaced Pages:Requests for wheels (on wheels)?. I had to stop looking at it, it doubled me over in uncontrollable laughter every time I did. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

His excellency's case

Thanks, I know it, but I had no time to write anything compelling before the case was opened, and then I didn't want the section for my statement to be empty. Pecher 21:15, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I see. Makes sense. Thanks. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Anagrams

You mention anagrams on your user page. Am I to safely assume you will realize I am addressing you should I type one of the following?

• a french pus bog
• french soup bag
• he gun fab corps
• he gun bop scarf
• bangor chef pus
• garb chef no pus
• apron bug chefs
• cheap frog snub (or snub cheap frog)

Sorry about the recurring "pus" - it must be the cheese fly article inspiring me. beach works too, though:

• beach spun frog
• beach surf pong
• spurn beach fog

There are more.... KillerChihuahua 15:10, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

All good. Plus, I've had to become something of a pus expert working on Milk. (Which always contains some white blood cells, more if the cow has an udder infection. The dairy industry tends to call these white blood cells "somatic cells". Anti-milk groups like PETA tend to call them "pus".) French soup bag 18:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

You're so full of delightful bits of trivia. Tell me, do you know any which do not provoke slight nausea? KillerChihuahua 19:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Hoping to cure his tuberculosis, in 1901, Anton Chekhov went to a resort where he drank four bottles of sour, bubbly, fermented horse milk a day for two weeks and gained 12 pounds? Hmm. I see what you mean. Cheap frog snub 19:11, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

question on link

Bunchofgrapes,

I added what I considered to be a valuable link to the Oroonoko page - a study guide by GradeSaver. You removed it because you said it was a commercial link.

However, if you read the content in the study guide, I think you will agree that it is a very valuable resource for students written by other students. Further, the content on the page complements the Misplaced Pages page on Oroonoko by providing additional content that most readers would be looking for. I thought this was the whole point of putting external links up.

I would appreciate your feedback as to why this link was removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Franklee1 (talk • contribs) 17:16, July 15, 2006 (UTC)

Response. (http://www.gradesaver.com/classicnotes/titles/oroonoko/ is the link in question, for the curious. The goggles do nothing.) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:44, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Just wanted to say hello

See Bishonen's talk page and you could say that what I posted there applies to you too. Yes, it is positive. I hope our personal drama can be placed to rest as well, because if you do remember, in the beginning we had actually thought about collaborating on blueberry! So please look to the future, and should I return permanently by the year's end, I will make sure that whatever I learned from you is applied to my editing too (the other being Bishonen). Things could really work out if we let compromising do the job. Take care, whether you care about this or not. 64.231.77.2 23:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)