Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 20:34, 5 January 2015

This is Srich32977's talk page, where you can send him messages and comments.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29Auto-archiving period: 2 months

If I have left you a message: please answer on your talk page, as I am watching it. If you leave me a message: I will answer on my talk page, so please add it to your watchlist. Please click here to leave me a new message.

Editorial Content

Dear Sir, I am new to Misplaced Pages. I wish to learn the rules. To this end would you mind elaborating on your comment "added editorial comment" associated with my "progressive tax" change. My intent in changing Misplaced Pages was to correct facts surrounding the hard right wing "tea party" view of tax policy included in Misplaced Pages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Progressive_tax&action=history 13:24, 7 November 2014‎ 24.127.238.33

Thanks for you help — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.127.238.33 (talk) 12:53, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

I've responded on your IP user talk page. – S. Rich (talk) 16:20, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Stossel

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware that Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.

You're at 3 RR now on the Stossel article. SPECIFICO talk 03:19, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I have not lost my ability to count. You, on the other hand, have failed to honor WP:BRD. Don't tell me to use talk when I already have and don't support a relatively inexperienced editor who wishes to inject POV into the article. – S. Rich (talk) 03:26, 17 November 2014 (UTC) PS: Actually I am at '2RR'. You should read WP:3RR which says "An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert." The 3rd edit you saw added a citation and did not change what the other editor had done. – S. Rich (talk) 03:45, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

You know I'm here to help you, Srich. The counting is important, especially for when you become an Admin and will need to adjudicate in these matters. . SPECIFICO talk 04:00, 17 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree with SPECIFICO. Cool it on the edit warring games. 2.177.207.221 (talk) 06:20, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Personal Injury Lawyer

Thanks for the message. I thought adding a citation to a page that answered the question would be okay. Now I see that others did the same thing before. Sorry to add to your workload and for making you revert the changes again. Jkothe (talk) 18:24, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

@Jkothe: It is quite alright. It is not the info which is the problem, but the source and the commercial/advertising interest of the source. I hope you can find another source. – S. Rich (talk) 18:31, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Would this work as a citation? http://www.lawyeredu.org/personal-injury-lawyer.html Jkothe (talk) 19:01, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

@Jkothe: I'd say yes. But others might object. If they do, you discuss the proposed edit in the Bold, Revert, Discuss process. – S. Rich (talk) 21:36, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

2.17 IP user

I just wanted to let you know that they found a user you dealt with before and asked them to lock the state bar page, its their modus operandi and they did the same with me. You can see it here. I just wanted to let you know. - SantiLak (talk) 07:20, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

For being right 2/3 of the time. I'll soon have a fun youtube video channel I might let you nitpick at a little. Total free speech at my youtube video channel? NOT!! Keep your ears open...

Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 17:18, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Grammatical errors on WP:Competence

Ironically, the page admonishing readers to deal with incompetence is presented incompetently. Many of the types of incompetence listed--such as "language difficulty "--are grammatically incorrect. My attempt to rectify this has been reverted on multiple occasions by Binksternet (most recently here). He probably doesn't understand why the terms are ungrammatical. He also probably didn't like the synonyms of the incompetence types I added, including the descriptively accurate but politically incorrect "intellectual ." I encourage you to add your own grammatically correct synonyms of the incompetence types, because I don't think Bink is up to the task (and I doubt he'd revert you, since he likes you).

Also, these terms should be sub-section. Incompetence" is a vague term that needs to be made concrete. Surely, then, the types of incompetence are crucial to the article. They should be given the salience that comes with being a sub-section. Steeletrap (talk) 11:10, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

State Bar of California article

Thanks for the rewrite of the criticism / executive producer lawsuit section. I didn't like the IP's phrasing (and still don't like putting accusations / lawsuits just filed in articles) but the sourcing outside of the Courtroom News Service show the notability and the response helps as well. I looked at it a few days ago and couldn't come up with a decent rewrite. Thanks for how you handled it. Ravensfire (talk) 17:12, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Please do not edit war

Thank you.2.177.211.97 (talk) 20:08, 1 December 2014 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.177.211.97 (talk) 20:13, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Non-aggression page

Surely you'll agree that it is a disaster in its current state. The attempt to equate Jesus, Epicurus, and Islamic philosophers to modern Ayn Rand libertarianism is blatant synthesis. The use of "statist" to describe opponents of NAP is tendentious. Steeletrap (talk) 21:15, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

I agree with you in many respects, and that's why I invited you to go back to it. But the burden is on you to be more circumspect when it comes to T-Ban items. – S. Rich (talk) 21:57, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Nominations for the Military history Wikiproject's Historian and Newcomer of the Year Awards are now open!

The Military history Wikiproject has opened nominations for the Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year. Nominations will be accepted until 13 December at 23:59 GMT, with voting to begin at 0:00 GMT 14 December. The voting will conclude on 21 December. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:41, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

This message was accidentally sent using an incorrect mailing list, therefore this message is being resent using the correct list. As a result, some users may get this message twice; if so please discard. We apologize for the inconvenience.

ad hominem at America

Hi. Your additional words make clear that you are still misusing the term. Please review its meaning. Also, it's confusing to reader for you to have changed the text of your previous writing after I had commented on it. I suggest you revert and put your further thoughts beneath mine as a response. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 14:26, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Exorcism

Do you disagree with me that exorcism is distinct from, say, religious claims about what happens to you after die (or claims about how the universe came into being; or claims about god's nature?)? Clearly it is relatively unique among religious claims in that it makes causal statements about how things in the world (or certain human minds) works. Hence is falls into the realm of pseudoscience AND religion, not merely religion. Steeletrap (talk) 04:54, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

The discussion about article improvement is best handled on the article talk page. Still, as I have stated on your talk page, I think adding any "scientific" or "pseudoscientific" descriptives to the article lede is UNDUE. I recommend that you use the Williams Encyclopedia material to expand the article section and not add it to the lede. Otherwise you will meet resistance which is not worth the effort. – S. Rich (talk) 05:07, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Do you know what "neutral" means?

It does not mean we present every individual's views charitably. It means we present them as RS do. In the case of Griffin, his views are considered conspiracy theories and fringe science by RS. You are violating NPOV by putting your own PC spin on the Griffin article, rather than deferring to RS judgment. Steeletrap (talk) 08:04, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Steeletrap, perhaps you misunderstood WP:NPOV. It clearly states...Avoid stating opinions as facts. Usually, articles will contain information about the significant opinions that have been expressed about their subjects. However, these opinions should not be stated in Misplaced Pages's voice. Rather, they should be attributed in the text to particular sources, or where justified, described as widespread views, etc. For example, an article should not state that "genocide is an evil action", but it may state that "genocide has been described by John X as the epitome of human evil." Views are just that - VIEWS, not FACTS. Views are nothing more than attitudes and/or opinion. Please familiarize yourself with the policy, and pay special attention to the strict adherence requirements at WP:BLP. Kindest regards. Atsme☯ 13:00, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Please tell me which "opinion" I have added to Griffin's article. Steeletrap (talk) 19:20, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

You have added opinion via some of your edits. For example, I provided neutral section headings and you reverted. You have pushed the "conspiracy theory" aspects of the article, which are POV. (For example, presenting the Sean Easter/Media Matters description. Easter/MM & Kembrew McLeod need "according to" qualifiers so that WP is not the vehicle by which Griffin is criticized. McLeod might have been a good source. But you did a lousy job in citing him. You put the date in twice, did not designate "181" as a page number, and failed to provide an ISBN. Worse, though, you mis-quoted the passage. It reads "Paul's endorsement of G. Edward Griffin's The Creature...—along with several other positions he holds—has made him an icon for New World Order conspiracy theorists." Perhaps your dislike of Griffin has clouded your judgment. Please consider and be more careful. – S. Rich (talk) 19:58, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Apart from the duplicate dates, my citation was in conformity with the Chicago Manual of Style, which does not require "p" or any other notation prior to a page number. Steeletrap (talk) 20:00, 14 December 2014 (UTC) You consistently misunderstand NPOV. You think we have to present the views of Griffin or Alex Jones as if they were the views of Einstein. That's not NPOV. NPOV=following what RS say. His views about cancer, AIDS, Noah's Ark, and so forth are conspiracy theories according to RS. Steeletrap (talk) 20:01, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

hey Steeletrap and Srich32977 -- please keep this calm and not personal, and please discuss the article content on the article Talk page, so we can all participate. There is no need to get emotional here nor to personalize this, nor get lost on little details. We have some big picture stuff that needs working out. If we really try, and cannot work specific issues out on the article Talk page, there are lots of dispute resolution processes we can go through. Please just take it slow, and stay calm. Thanks. If you all haven't read Misplaced Pages:Controversial articles please do so, carefully. and please reflect on it and follow it. Thanks! Jytdog (talk) 20:05, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice, Jytdog. Steeletrap (talk) 20:07, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

thank you for hearing it graciously, steeletrap. in that spirit, would you please consider changing the section header? people can disagree in good faith on how to apply the overlapping sets of policies that are in play here. Jytdog (talk) 20:12, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Certainly, I will consider your arguments for changing it. But Srich has not made any arguments. He has made bare conclusory statements of "non-NPOV." If he could explain why it is non-neutral to describe Griffin's views (specifically, his denial that HIV causes AIDS, and his view that the cure for cancer is laertile and Congress is covering up the cure) as conspiracy theories and fringe science, I would listen. But bare conclusory statements don't do it for me. Steeletrap (talk) 22:07, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

my comment was discussing your behavior, not his.  :) my sense is that Srich has a different understanding of NPOV than you and possibly me (I am still trying to work out his perspective). but asking real questions rather than rhetorical ones is generally more productive. but do as you will! Jytdog (talk) 22:15, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Conclusory statements versus arguments

Srich, you have not made an argument as to why "conspiracy theories" and "fringe science" are biased as descriptions of Griffin's work. You simply make conclusory statements about 'bias' and 'NPOV.' That is not helpful. You would do better in this community if you provided arguments for your conclusions.

What is your argument? Is it that those words are bias because they portray Griffin in a negative light? Is it that these terms are not descriptive but rather normative? I need more specifics before I can engage you. Steeletrap (talk) 00:59, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

please do this on the article Talk page. please. it is hard enough to work toward consensus without having side discussions. but of course, do as you will. Jytdog (talk) 01:12, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Steeletrap: Please look more closely. I've said fringe is inappropriate because there is no RS in the text. Moreover, putting the term in the heading is not neutral because it is an opinion based description. (Take a look at Water memory, a fringy science topic if there ever was one. The term fringe is not even in the article.) Likewise, conspiracy theory/ist is inappropriate because these are derogatory terms of opinion. Both fringe and conspiracy theory are opinion-based and I've cited policy that says section headings are required to be neutral. And when opinions are expressed we need to attribute the opinions. E.g., "Professor X says Griffin has 'nutty' ideas."

Jytdog: Steeletrap is welcome to comment here. If she has worthwhile remarks for the article talk page I'm sure she will post them there. – S. Rich (talk) 01:26, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

as you will! Jytdog (talk) 03:19, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Discretionary sanctions notification - BLP

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 04:56, 15 December 2014 (UTC)Template:Z33

Yes, I know. (I've been at this for awhile.) Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 05:03, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

I think we all got one as part of protocol following the PP. Uh oh - we've been WP:Canvassed....but in a good way. Atsme☯ 01:41, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Correct. I'm the one who first posted the sanctions template on the talk page based on Griffin's Austrian School interest. Callanecc, who is an Overseer, added in the BLP provision and let the active editors know what's what. – S. Rich (talk) 01:58, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Your thoughts, please

I am going to request that the BLP violations be removed from the article, and would appreciate your advice on how best to present the request. I was advised to make the request on the article's TP, so I imagine a ping would be appropriate. I believe all the arguments for and against were well presented on the article's TP, but I've seen nothing that would validate inclusion of the contentious labels and pejorative terminology in the lead. Atsme☯ 01:42, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

You use {{Edit protected}}. See WP:EDITREQ for guidance. Be specific in what you want changed (by quoting the words) and why they are a BLP problem and what you propose to use as alternative language. – S. Rich (talk) 01:59, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Question - should World Without Cancer be included in the lead? I think it is more appropriate for a BLP to include the first book he ever published along with his most notable which would be The Creature.... The body of the article can include other widely recognized titles with brief overviews highlighting areas of interest. Atsme☯ 13:35, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Do you feel progress is being made at the Griffin TP, and if so, in what regard? Atsme☯ 17:46, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I do. And one aspect of this is the involvement of User:Callanecc, a WP Oversight member. This is a level above Administrator and these Wikipedians are quite rare (41 total). Please consider that Callanecc has done and what advice has been given.

I'm totally in support of Callanecc, can't help but admire his accomplishments. I just don't see the progress at Griffin. I went back through the edit history, and saw how the article transitioned to what it is today. It was actually in June of this year that the contentious label was added. It was attempted once before back in 2008, but the team of collaborators at the time wouldn't allow it. There may have been other attempts, but I didn't comb the edits that closely. I just want to get the article policy compliant, and then improve where necessary and expand it for a DYK candidacy. As you know, there are time constraints between the time of expansion and nomination. Editors can't possibly meet that timeline under the circumstances we're having to work under now. Some of the editors who are acting as guardians haven't even contributed any edits to improve or expand the article. Makes me wonder why they're so determined to revert the work of others. Atsme☯ 05:59, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

I think you are misinformed about DYK. Please look at WP:WIADYK. Note that I did two reassessments on the article – Class from B to C in August and to a Start class last week. To get a DYK the article needs a recent Good Article review. Next, if the article does not have an interesting "hook" it won't pass DYK muster. In this regard you must remember that Griffin is in many ways a kook given his promotion of laetrile, Noahs Ark, etc. Well, if the Ark was actually discovered or if laetrile was actually accepted by the medical community, then there'd be a hook. Since this ain't gonna happen, a DYK is not in the offing. Moreover, many in the WP community would oppose a DYK nomination because the nomination would be seen as promotional. And I am included in that group. Why? Because I'm more interested in making sure that WP keeps its BLP nose clean. And that is why you see me opposing the efforts to SYN a negative taint into the article. I dislike Griffin's kooky ideas, but I won't let WP become a vehicle to bash him. – S. Rich (talk) 07:10, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Srich, thank you for your transparency. I actually maintain an agnostic position with regards to my editing, which is probably a result of 30+ years as a professional writer/publisher/producer. I guess after you've spent lots of $$ (six figures) for errors & omissions policies over the years, survived several defamation and copyvio legal challenges, sat on numerous discussion panels, etc., one tends to learn the art of neutrality, the laws of copyright, and how best to keep one's nose clean. Unfortunately, insurance companies don't offer policies for one's "duh moments" or standing strong on principal, all of which can get pretty darn expensive, especially if you have an auto immune disease of the adrenal gland resulting in OCD to get things right. (I have no idea what I just said). My reference to DYK was actually for articles that, within the past seven days, have been either ..... expanded at least five fold.. I've done 5 DYKs this year, and got them all promoted to GAs, one of which became an FA which will be featured on the main page Dec 24th. I actually do have a pretty good understanding of the process. It's impossible to know all of WP's policies inside and out, but the policies I do know, I know well, and that includes BLP. I realize my edit count is flimsy compared to some of our seasoned editors who have chalked up numerous FAs - actually one of my goals here - and I feel extremely honored for the opportunity to have worked with some of the best editors on Wiki. There is a huge difference in publishing/writing/editing/producing magazines, screenplays and television specials VS contributing what little one has learned over the years to help aspiring writers, editors, etc. on WP. I am not immune to making mistakes - I am after all, a mere human - but I still believe Griffin could be a candidate for DYK, possibly even GA if it's written properly, and adheres strictly to policy. That's what I specialize in, and enjoy doing most. Thank you for your unending patience, and tireless contributions. Your efforts are much appreciated. Atsme☯ 14:58, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Special greeting...

Discretionary sanctions notification - Pseudoscience

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding pseudoscience and fringe science, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

Template:Z33

I'm alerting you about these discretionary sanctions as I want to move away from the BLP issues at G. Edward Griffin. Apologies for the double notification regarding the same article. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 01:08, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. While I appreciate the overwatching, I think the notification is misplaced. The Griffin article is a BLP and only involves Pseudoscience as a tangent. My editing on pseudoscience topics is quite limited. I certainly don't want WP to be used to promote pseudoscience or to improperly debunk pseudoscience by using SYN in BLP articles. – S. Rich (talk) 02:55, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Cemetery

There are notable cemeteries. I think one in Los Angeles, and another in Barre, Vermont. I'm sure there are others, but most aren't. I would guess that 99%+ of place articles do not have cemeteries mentioned, because they are not notable. Student7 (talk) 17:52, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

The editing question is WP:NOTEWORTHY, not notability. So Los Angeles has several notable cemeteries in the area, and many of these cemeteries have their own articles. – S. Rich (talk) 01:04, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Alleged TB violation

I am perplexed by your allegations. Can you please specifically describe to me how I violated the TB? (Emphasis on specific.) Do you think Raimondo is affiliated with LvMI? Do you think removing unsourced content that contains the word "Murray Rothbard" is a violation? It seems to me that you are ignoring the intention of the TB and instead adopting a literalistic and tendentious interpretation of its tenets. Steeletrap (talk) 02:33, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Are you playing dumb? I don't think so. Rather, you find a article that you want to do a little WP:RGW-on and then fail to consider the consequences of your edits. Again, I advise to take a little time to review WP:TBAN – especially the fourth bullet example. When you edit material related to Murray Rothbard or Lew Rockwell, who are associated with Mises.org, you are violating the TBAN. Earlier I said I would report your violations, but I relented on this latest violation. Please don't think I am crying wolf. Be on the safe side and carefully consider whether the topic or the people or the references are related to Mises.org. Your taunts about competence and fringe will not deter me. – S. Rich (talk) 03:15, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

On law school exams at San Diego U, were you able to get away with just stating your conclusion without a supporting argument? Steeletrap (talk) 19:45, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I have raised this at AN since I believe this type of recidivist tendentious editing on BLP issues simply cannot be ignored.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 22:59, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

@The Devil's Advocate: actually, because the edits involve violation of the specific TBAN and because they involve BLP violations, the proper venue is Arbcom Enforcement. – S. Rich (talk) 01:41, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Well, I was suggesting a potential broadening of the topic ban beyond the topic of Austrian Economics and thus raised it at AN as such a broadening would not fall within the scope of the discretionary sanctions.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 01:47, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

I've hoped that my admonitions would be sufficient, but Steeletrap seems to be putting her head in the sand. Now, above, she taunts me about law school. (She ought to try attending law school and taking the Bar Exam.) Even so, I had expected to wait till 2015 to pursue this. So I'm glad you've initiated action. As I read your comment, you are asking that Steeletrap's TBAN be expanded. Perhaps into topics involving libertarianism (and other topics)? I'm just not familiar enough with the process. I surmise that an Arbcom member could do so (e.g., broaden the scope of the TBAN) independently from the ANI process. – S. Rich (talk) 02:58, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Srich you're making a warthog out of a chipmunk here. Stand back. A small content dispute and you wish to pursue draconian sanctions? Really? SPECIFICO talk 03:32, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Quit being so sensitive, soldier. I wasn't taunting you about law school. I was trying to bring you back to your former studious self. The point was that you must (given your education) be capable of making real arguments, as opposed to bare conclusory statements. Steeletrap (talk) 03:55, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

You are being naive. The conclusion will be rendered by an administrator or Arbcom member. I think you will be on vacation for awhile. (But I am glad that you appreciate that I am a sensitive person.) – S. Rich (talk) 04:05, 31 December 2014 (UTC

Also, stop victim playing. Last year, when the Arbcom was underway, I commented during the discussion and the Arbcom decided to impose a TBAN. The TBAN was based on the evidence and arguments presented. Later, despite my gentle admonitions to behave, you persisted in Pushing the Envelope (album). But pushing the envelope ≈ POV-pushing. Consequently, I expect further sanctions are in the offing. – S. Rich (talk) 04:25, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Um, no. I'm not going to get banned, because most people (including many who hate me) disagree with your muddle-headed interpretation of my TB. You are belatedly recognizing this and, knowing that the thread will close without action, are trying to lead the way in a closure so that you can say that the closure doesn't reflect a victory for Steele. Steeletrap (talk) 18:04, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Happy New Year Srich32977!

Srich32977,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. Atsme☯ 13:13, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Noticeboard

Thank you for writing and finding solution. It is just a normal administrator noticeboard,(AN) not incident(ANI). I know you are aware of it, but I thought of pointing it to you because you have called it ANI. Bladesmulti (talk) 16:31, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	As a reminder to keep your greatest life aspiration in sight. Steeletrap (talk) 22:50, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

Considering that you offered the barnstar as one of your final edits before going into retirement, it is accepted and appreciated. And I thank you for the many constructive edits you provided to the project. Other edits I will praise as having been interesting. (I will add that adminship is hardly my greatest life aspiration.) – S. Rich (talk) 06:16, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

After that ARE complaint will be closed, you will try for a RFA? Bladesmulti (talk) 03:55, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

At present I'm killing time as a real life/death event sssslllloooowwwwllllyyyy comes to a close. Then, after moving and doing a few Spartan Races, I shall think about those silly questions that RFAs must endure. – S. Rich (talk) 04:08, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		A beer on me!
		I couldn't find an 18-pak, so just start with this one. You've earned the entire distributorship. Atsme☯ 06:40, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Glad you agreed with me

Frankly, I was rather puzzled by that edit of yours. --Orange Mike | Talk 03:07, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

@Orangemike: Sloppy of me. I went through the category articles and if I did't see "plot" or "conspi" in the search results, I quickly scanned by eyeball and then removed the category. Actually, I think the category is over broad. It seems to encompass anyone who has accepted or mentioned some sort of conspiracy, even if they had no hand in developing the particular theory. At the moment I'm thinking about adding the category to Hillary's and Reverend White's articles. – S. Rich (talk) 03:14, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Seems to me that the category is for people who are substantially known for propagating a particular conspiracy theory, not just people who discuss actual conspiracies. The Bolsheviki were an actual conspiracy; the American Legislative Exchange Council functions as a conspiracy, albeit the existent of the actual conspiracy is not much of a secret anymore. Discussing either of them does not make you a conspiracy theorist. --Orange Mike | Talk 03:26, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Quite so. But as "conspiracy theorist" has become a derogatory term, it is problematic. Take a look at what's going on at G. Edward Griffin. – S. Rich (talk) 03:31, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

Judgement

this dif, with the invocation of hitler and stooping to ad hominem arguments, one of the lowest forms of argumentation, whew. Bad judgement, in my view. Jytdog (talk) 15:26, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

You will notice that I tried to invoke some humor into the posting, clearly recognizing by the link I added that the argument was a low form. But it has some validity, as per the comparisons we are studying between the use of CT in Griffins article and other CT articles. (The point being that use of derogatory terms in the lede must be done with circumspect.) So lighten up. Your rantings/comments about how I make personal comments on the article talk page is doing exactly what you think is improper -- commenting on the personal action of another editor rather than on content. (Did you gripe when Arthur Rubin said "You seem to be assuming..."? Wasn't that a personal comment?) You are welcome to post here, on this user talk page, and say whatever the fuck you want to say. Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 15:45, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

however you couch it, you went to Hitlerlandia and you definitely speculated on my motivations. I discussed your behavior per WP:TPG. we need to raise the game, not lower it. good luck. Jytdog (talk) 15:47, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Jytdog, you said "The precedents make it clear that it is not out of bounds to use it in the lead." Hitler is just one of those precedents about derogatory terms. And you have commented yourself about motivations and editors, directly and by implication: "I do understand that you and Atsme have strongly disagreed." "just making shit up", "not hard to do." "Why do you say this?" etc. Invoking TPG on the talk page to criticize another editor's comment itself is a TPNO. – S. Rich (talk) 16:38, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

hey, just wanted to give you some feedback. you can hear it or not, but just turning it back on me? ah well what are you going to do. done here. good luck. Jytdog (talk) 16:42, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate the feedback you've posted here. And I'm providing feedback in return. So I'll add that thanking editors for supporting your position on the article talk page is a TPNO matter. Specifico knows how these RFCs work, so you don't need to prompt him to get a vote. And you needn't clutter the talk page with personal thanks. Use that little "thank you" feature. (Thanks.) – S. Rich (talk) 16:47, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Srich, I wasn't offended by the reminder. No harm done! I did think it was strange that you removed my earlier comment here without responding, but no harm done there either. Cheers. SPECIFICO talk 17:48, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Question about the RfC....

Shouldn't the RfC have been presented with a brief neutral statement rather than with all the detail which attempts to justify in a non-neutral way the use of a contentious label? The sources cited are an attempt to validate use of the label from a biased view, thus UNDUE and POV. Following are two examples of RS that actually debunk the "conspiracy theory/theorist" claims: (ranked 22,303 US on Alexa), and (ranked 49,730 US on Alexa). The introductions to Griffin read respectively: "G. Edward Griffin is an American film producer, author, and political lecturer. He is best known as the author of The Creature From Jekyll Island: A Second Look At The Federal Reserve, a critique of much modern economic theory and practice, specifically the Federal Reserve System." and the other reads (excerpt): "Listed in Who’s Who in America, he is well known because of his talent for researching difficult topics and presenting them in clear terms that all can understand. One of his best-known books is his critical history of the beginnings of the Federal Reserve, The Creature from Jekyll Island. Jim and Mr. Griffin discuss the founding of the Federal Reserve and the extreme secrecy behind it." Griffin also debunks the JFK myth which should give him a leg-up from being what most consider factually to be a conspiracy theorist, . There are several other sources I cited in the discussion that clearly contradict what the POV advocates claim he is best known for, particularly with regard to the following statement: "Jones and Griffin, at least, are not called anything else than conspiracy theorists in reliable sources." and "...and he does say his theory on the Fed is a conspiracy theory in his own book."....and so on. FYI, I just posted notice of the RfC at the NPOV Noticeboard. Signed, the "over-motivated" Atsme☯ 20:34, 5 January 2015 (UTC)