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Revision as of 21:39, 29 January 2015

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Hello, Frysay! Welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Misplaced Pages. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already excited about Misplaced Pages, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! —Sadat (Masssly)❤T☮C☺M☯ 08:39, 8 April 2014 (UTC) Getting Started The five pillars of Misplaced Pages • Tutorial • Your first article How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions New contributors' help page Where to: ask questions • make requests Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Misplaced Pages is not • Biographies of living persons Simplified Manual of Style • Three-revert rule Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • Sock puppetry Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Maintenance • Peer review • Requested articles Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

April 2014

Hello, I'm SMP0328.. I noticed that you recently removed some content from Talk:Twenty-seventh Amendment to the United States Constitution without explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Misplaced Pages with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; I restored the removed content. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. You can not simply remove a thread from a talk page, unless you are archiving that thread. Even then, archiving should only after weeks (if not months) of inactivity. SMP0328. (talk) 05:11, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

You are adding original research and using your opinion to remove well sourced information

Both of these are against basic policy, but I think you know that. Dougweller (talk) 22:10, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

What is "these"? Frysay (talk) 22:14, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I have reverted your edits per WP:BRD, but I agree they are original research. Pinging Dougweller. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 23:26, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

I do believe when Dougweller said "these", he was referring to the two actions he mentioned in his header: 1) "adding original research" and 2) "using your opinion to remove well sourced information". Is there anything else you would like explained? I see you have persisted in both those things after Dougweller's warning. Please desist or you will be blocked for tendentious editing. Bishonen | talk 23:34, 14 January 2015 (UTC).

An example: "Curiously, however, even the SPLC does not label EURO as being a "white supremacist organization", "Curiously" is editorial, the rest is pure original research. Dougweller (talk) 08:37, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Okay, I'll grant the "Curiously" part. But I was merely trying to get the attention of the trouble-makers around here. However, in what way is my reporting that the SPLC "does not label EURO as being a "white supremacist organization" WP:OR, while SOMEONE ELSE editing the article to say "As of 2015 it is designated a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center." _NOT_ WP:OR??? Can't answer that, can ya?!? Frysay (talk) 18:06, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Note: The edit-warrers, who have made their appearances immediately above, need to explain their claim that what _I_ did was OR: I do not consider the mere use of the term itself sufficient if it is 1. Unexplained. 2. Its use is apparently being applied inconsistently. What I feel I must do, now, is to point out that the OR policy is being selectively and discriminately applied against me. I've already given an example of an inconsistency at 18:06 edit above, but I strongly suspect that once the edit-warrers are required to explain their invocations of that rule against me, then they will display further inconsistences and discrimination. Frysay (talk) 18:37, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

January 2015

Your recent editing history at European-American Unity and Rights Organization shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you get reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 23:30, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

For the record, the above Editor EvergreenFir _LIED_ by claiming that _I_ was engaging in an edit-war. I certainly agree that somebody, actually somebodies INCLUDING EvergreenFir and Dougweller are engaging in an edit-war against me. I merely made edits: The edit-war began when others reverted my edits without discussing the matter on the Talk page, either at the time or since. EvergreenFir also _LIED_ by claiming that _I_ hadn't used the Talk page to discuss the edits! Quite to the contrary, I have been by far the heaviest user of the Talk page. And I still am!! As can be seen elsewhere on this page, I have also been falsely accused by Dougweller of violating the 3RR rule. Yet, my response to him (so far) points out that he reverted FOUR (4) of my edits with what me might claim was a single revert, and later he reverted another NINE (9) of my edits with another revert. So, where does he get off claiming that _I_ violated the 3RR? I'd say that Dougweller's actions constitute an extremely selective, biased, and hypocritical use of the 3RR: He wants to grant himself a pass, for ACTUAL violations of 3RR, and he wants to ding me for simply defending my edits, edits he refuses to discuss on the Talk page. Frysay (talk) 18:20, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

User talk:EvergreenFir

Editors may delete posts as they see fit from their own talk page. Please do not restore your post again. --NeilN 06:56, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

3RR

Just to notify you that you have broken WP:3RR, but as you weren't notified before your last revert I haven't reported you. Please read the link carefully. And you are clearly editing against WP:CONSENSUS so you really need to get agreement on the talk page. Dougweller (talk) 08:46, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Actually, Dougweller, you EXTENSIVELY violated WP:3RR. Now, I suppose you'll claim that your reverting FOUR (4) of my edits, and shortly later editing NINE (9) of my edits, at a time, only constitutes 2 Reverts? And when YOU 'ran out of' reverts as per the 3RR, you somehow managed to bring in your buddy to get you out of a jam. Do you claim that MY repairing 13 edits constitutes a 13X violation of the 3RR, or will you grant me the same leeway? Frysay (talk) 18:11, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

January 2015

Does EVERYBODY lie around here? The above comment, a threat to me, claimed that I engaged in "persistent tendentious editing after repeated warnings" But as far as I am aware, any "warnings" I was given did not say I could not make ANY edits whatsoever. Above, Bishonen refers to an edit as being "disruptive"? How is MY edit "disruptive", in an of itself? In fact, I was FOLLOWING what I thought to be the rules, including statements to me which were NOT labelled as "warnings": I ceased defending the edits I had been making, and decided to begin making OTHER edits. Lo and behold, the edit-warrers (Which you have now assisted and joined) now falsely claim I somehow didn't follow some "warning"? Frysay (talk) 18:28, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Is that your unblock request? If you find the template {{unblock|reason=''Your reason here'' ~~~~}} difficult to manage, I can put your text into the template for you if you wish. It may seem bureaucratic, but the point of using the template is that it'll issue an automatic call to uninvolved admins, and one such will come to this page and review the block and your request. (If you don't use the template, very few people will see what you say.) I advise you to rephrase first, though, because attacking the blocking admin and others is unlikely to do you any favors with the reviewing admin. But I'm not sure whether you do want to appeal the block. If you do, you really would do yourself a favor by reading the guide to appealing blocks first. Bishonen | talk 18:52, 15 January 2015 (UTC).

I wrote the following while your paragraph, immediately above, was being added: Frysay (talk) 19:08, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

"::I do believe when Dougweller said "these", he was referring to the two actions he mentioned in his header: 1) "adding original research" and 2) "using your opinion to remove well sourced information". Is there anything else you would like explained? I see you have persisted in both those things after Dougweller's warning. Please desist or you will be blocked for tendentious editing. Bishonen | talk 23:34, 14 January 2015 (UTC).

I have already challenged the assertion that I have added OR. Or, to put it differently, my reporting that the SPLC did not call EURO "white supremacist" is not any different, in kind, than what the article already stated, that the SPLC identified EURO as "white nationalist". As for your claim that I " my opinion to remove well sourced information". Actually, every time anybody edits on WP, he SOMEHOW uses his "opinion": He displays his opinion that the edit should be made! As for "removing well sourced information", the fact that it might have been well-sourced does not mean it doesn't violate some other rule. I attempted to remove a paragraph-long citation (involving Germany) which did not belong in this article: I didn't challenge its "well-sourcedness", to coin a word; Rather, I objected because it wasn't documented who had actually written it (the edited material merely called it the "author". There was and is no indication that the material cited actually represented a statement of the policies and positions of the EURO organization. (Could it have been the web-equivalent of a letter-to-the-editor, for example?!?) I also objected because it involved WP:UNDUE weight: It cited one small paragraph of what presumably was many YEARS of documents. It is as if someone cited a single paragraph from Time Magazine, from 2007, one of potentially 1000 issues over the last 20 years. (Or more, since Time has been around since the 1930's, at least.) Why cite this specific paragraph? The text in the article didn't say, and the reader of WP is left to guess.

−

See the problem(s)? Calling that material "well-sourced" ISN'T SUFFICIENT!!! It has other faults! Further, I attempted to remove in the Activities section, the only material there: references to a person who was no longer a member of the organization! What kind of "Activities" section cites ONLY actions of ex-members? In my opinion, somebody tried to sneak in the activities of an EX-member, because they couldn't find anything worthy of then-current members to list.

−

So, I considered the material sent to me, recognized its errors, and tried to discuss the matter on the Talk page. Not surprisingly (based on the history of the POV-loving people around here) people failed and refused to discuss the matter. Including YOU. Frysay (talk) 19:08, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

End of material I had written while your above paragraph was also being edited.

My complaints should be considered JUST THAT: A serious complaint about serious misconduct by others, against me. Yesterday, I initiated a WP: Dispute Resolution case against others, and it has become apparent that I will have to be including YOU in the complaint as well. What needs to happen is that those who have engaged in misconduct against me need to correct themselves, apologize to me, and to BEGIN to discuss my edits. (This has rarely happened so far.) Repair of the situation will, of course, require that any BLOCK against me be admitted that it was wrong, and be removed. Frysay (talk) 19:13, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

AMAZING: I've just discovered that I have not merely been blocked from making edits to the Article itself, but also making edits to the Talk page!!! I am astonished! I, who have been by far the most persistent user of the Talk page, and the Talk page is PRECISELY the location where edits are debated and justified. (I've actually been falsely accused, by EvergreenFir, of NOT using the Talk page, when I was heavily doing so, far more than others!) IT IS NOW QUITE CLEAR THAT POV-PROTECTORS are trying to silence me. Otherwise, they would have blocked merely my edits to the article itself, and not edits to the Talk page! What they are trying to do is to prevent me from destroying their POV and biases, in the view of others who may read the article. I could do that, quite well, on the Talk page. _THAT_ is why I was blocked from editing the Talk page, too. And, though I haven't yet checked, I suspect that no notification of my block (to the Talk page, too) has been written onto the Talk page. This will lead to the situation where readers interpret my "failure" to respond to others' edits as being some sort of "admission". This is clearly an intent to thwart my use of the WP: Dispute Resolution process. That process explicitly recommends to discuss the dispute on the Talk Page, as I have heavily done so far. The entire process is thwarted if a person, a WILLING Talk-page user, is obstructed even from use of the Talk page. Frysay (talk) 19:31, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

I will soon be blocked from editing this, my own User Talk page

It was not merely by accident that I was blocked from editing BOTH the EURO article AND the Talk page for that article: The people who engineered that block were motivated by a desire to obstruct my comments from the record, well beyond any claim they might make that I should not be allowed to edit the EURO article itself. In part, this is because I initated a WP:Dispute Resolution process yesterday, and a large part of that will, of course, involve the record of the dispute. The next outrageous step, I anticipate, is that the people who blocked me (including by "conspiracy", admittedly a sometimes overused term: I use it rarely) will grow to fear the content of this, my own User:Talk page here. I've repeatedly described the major problems and abuses that I have seen so far, and I fully intend to continue to use the only medium left to me, this User:Talk page, to further document this incident. I feel that this will eventually lead to a powerful desire among those who have already engaged in an edit-war against me to further silence me: This will be evidenced by a block of my own editing in this page. Frysay (talk) 19:58, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

User DougWeller is engaging in WP:Gaming the WP Rules

On EURO's Talk page, I cite user Dougweller's comment, which I quote here:

"I've reverted twice in the last 24 hours. and . I count 4 series of reverts by you - WP:3RR says " An edit or a series of consecutive edits that undoes other editors' actions—whether in whole or in part—counts as a revert." Dougweller (talk) 08:43, 15 January 2015 (UTC)"

Aha! Just like I anticipated. This demonstrates that Dougweller knows how to GAME THE SYSTEM'S RULES! He hides behind his claim that he has "reverted twice". True! But very misleading: In fact, his first revert actually reverted FOUR (4) of my own edits, his second revert actually reverted NINE (9) of my own edits. Ooh, that's sneaky! But if I revert the edits MANUALLY, one piece at a time, he wants to count them SEPARATELY!! I think he should have been a lawyer: A crooked, dishonest lawyer. Notice that he has failed to discuss the matter, at the time, in the Talk page! Figures. Frysay (talk) 20:42, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

I'll try once more and then give up. A series of uninterrupted edits counts as one edit for purposes of 3RR. I had two such series and could have had another without violating WP:3RR. You had 4 such series. If you'd been warned after your 3rd series then you could have been blocked at your 4th, but you weren't warned. As for discussion, I don't discuss things with people who call me dishonest and crooked. And I am the one that changed the article so it didn't state EURO was white whatever, but that it was so described. Which I suggested on the talk page.

And you were blocked from all articles, talk pages, and other pages except your talk page. That's the way blocks work. They block you from everything, not just an article. Dougweller (talk) 12:44, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

I just caught User EvergreenFir reverting MY OWN EDITS in MY OWN USER Talk Page!!!

Amazing, yet again. User EvergreenFir doesn't want me commenting on the dishonesty of another editor Dougweller, so he (she?) actually reverted MY OWN COMMENT in MY OWN User-talk page! How low can these corrupt people go? Frysay (talk) 20:53, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

You are not allowed to make personal attacks, even on your own talk page. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 20:57, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Well NOW, when I actually document here what you and your buddies are doing to me, that somehow becomes a "personal attack". Since I was blocked from even editing the Talk page of EURO, and Dougweller attempted to "game" the WP rules (3RR) and justify that on the EURO talk page, you don't want me to point out the hypocrisy of THAT misconduct! Even HERE! Look, YOU are the one who LIED about what I did, claiming that I failed to use the EURO Talk page. I hope you're sorry you said that! Now, the crooks don't even want me to use the EURO Talk page! "Can you say, 'Corrupt'? I knew you could." (said in the voice of Mister Rogers.) If pointing out corruption on WP has become a forbidden "personal attack", then it's clear this place has sunk very low. Frysay (talk) 21:07, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Talkpage access removed

I make allowances for the frustration of a blocked user, but the personal attacks you have posted on this page are completely unacceptable. I have removed your talkpage access. If you wish to appeal the block, you may use this page. Bishonen | talk 21:45, 15 January 2015 (UTC).

January 2015

Please do not attack other editors, as you did on Talk:European-American Unity and Rights Organization. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Misplaced Pages:Civility is one of Misplaced Pages's central principles. I would strongly advise you to redact your insulting statement if you are serious about remaining an editor here. Grayfell (talk) 08:00, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

This is your only warning; if you violate Misplaced Pages's biographies of living persons policy by inserting unsourced or poorly sourced defamatory content into an article or any other Misplaced Pages page again, as you did at Talk:European-American_Unity_and_Rights_Organization, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 08:05, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

Grayfell - I'm more concerned about the WP:LIBEL in that edit. Going to ask for revdel. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 08:06, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

First off, BOTH of you need to be MORE SPECIFIC about what you are complaining about. Put the specific alleged offending material IN QUOTES, so that I may know what you're talking about, and moreover, what you're NOT talking about. I have entered a lot of material in the last day or so (none on the article itself, however), and I think I have a right to have critics and complainers not make vague, unspecific complaints without giving me a reasonable notice of what they are complaining of. To threaten me with any sort of punishment (or "prevention") for a vague, unidentified 'offense' surely amounts to a "legal threat" on the part of the author.

Further, I should point out that the underlying article, WP:EURO, ITSELF has been libelous in the past, but not because I made it so. Calling EURO "white supremacist" itself would be libelous; I have tried to make the article NON-libelous by removing that libel.

I will be more specific: I DENY entering any libelous material into "an article or any other Misplaced Pages page", so the use of the word "again", ITSELF amounts to libel against ME!! I hereby complain! Indeed, to state this would virtually automatically amount to a "legal threat" against me.

For instance, above Grayfell said, "policy by inserting unsourced or poorly sourced defamatory content into an article or any other Misplaced Pages page again..." I don't recall adding material into the ARTICLE recently. It sounds as if somebody is warming-over some previously-addressed issue, with the intent to claim that it is a new offense. I notice that some of the material above appears to be a _boilerplate_ piece of text, and perhaps this explains why it was placed here anomalously. (meaning, erroneously and incorrectly.) I note that weeks ago, EvergreenFir wrote to me documentation that might have been a boilerplate document, falsely claiming that I hadn't used the Talk Page. Evidently, it is so easy to re-use text, that people are tempted to include sentences or paragraphs which they should know contain false, inappropriate claims.

As for EvergreenFir, claimg "I'm more concerned about the WP:LIBEL in that edit. Going to ask for revdel." First, what is a "revdel"? One of the policies of WP is something like, "Don't bite the newbies!". I suggest that using a term like "revdel" (which an experienced editor KNOWS that a newbie DOESN'T KNOW) amounts to "biting the newbies." (Also, it's a matter of acting 'sophisticated' in front of a newbie.) I am not sure about EvergreenFir's meaning, but one possible interpretation is that she is making a legal threat, against me. I _did_ use the term "libel" in one of my comments, but as a CAREFUL reader can easily see, I was referring to the phenomenon of dozens or hundreds of (unnamed) media organizations calling the EURO organization "white supremacist", and the fact that they should not have done so at the risk of legal action by EURO or others. That's NOT prohibited under WP rules!!! (In other words, the mere employment of the word "libel" is not prohibited by WP. If it were, EvergreenFir would be in violation of that rule, too.) Frysay (talk) 09:02, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

--Jezebel's Ponyo 19:48, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

I think you need to reconsider your serious mistake. You say, above: "...for persistent unabated tendentious editing in a topic area where you have been sanctioned previously.". "Sanctioned previously"??? However, notice above that another person made a mistake, Bishonen: He said, "Talkpage access removed I make allowances for the frustration of a blocked user, but the personal attacks you have posted on this page are completely unacceptable. I have removed your talkpage access. If you wish to appeal the block, you may use this page. Bishonen | talk 21:45, 15 January 2015 (UTC)."

But notice something. According to WP:No Personal Attacks, it says "Discussion of behavior in an appropriate forum, (e.g. user's talk page or Misplaced Pages noticeboard) does not in itself constitute a personal attack." See the problem? I was blocked from MY OWN TALK PAGE by a malicious, FALSE use of the assertion that discussion of behavior in a Talk Page is somehow wrong. Now, I have specifically cited WP's own policy that shows that this is NOT a violation of policy! I think you see the problem: Whether or not you will ADMIT seeing the problem is, itself, in question.

AHA! Notice that in each of these cases, it is _I_ who have been wrongly attacked, usually by Administrators brought in by others (secretly, apparently) to do the dirty deeds with an aura of propriety. Therefore, I strongly request that you withdraw this most recent block, and you should actually justify any actions you have taken based on the TRUTH, rather than the undocumented, unsupported nonsense that has been used up to now. Frysay (talk) 21:28, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

DS

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

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